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Market/Economy/Bazaars/etcFollow

#1 Jul 02 2010 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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I am having a hard time finding info on the market economy of FFXIV. I have heard it said that there will be no auction house, but I can't find any interviews or where that information cam from. I know they said accounts come with one "pack mule" that basically sounds like a character to act as a bazaar while you aren't actively playing online.

So will we be required to stay logged on to sell from a "bazaar" or will this character persist in the world even when we are logged off?

Are there any ideas about how the bazaar system will work? It does seem odd that we might have to search through hundreds of bazaars to find a weapon we are looking for, or whatever.... but I am assuming they would make the system a little more sophisticated than that.

I had a couple of thoughts on this. First, I was wondering if most gear will not be able to be re-sold after purchsed - like in some other games such as LOTRO. Basically once you buy it, it's bound to you. This would basiclaly make it such that crafters were the primary sellers in the game. If that is the case, the "bazaar" syetem would probably be setup such that section of town would be geared towards specific types of crafted items, and the "bazaars" associated with those craft items would be clustered in those areas. so instead of searching random player's bazaars you would stroll over to the leathercrafting bazaars (or whatever) to find items crafted by leathercrafters. This would still be a bit burensom, but maybe not as bad as completely random bazaars.

The other thing I was thinking of was that there might be some kind of exchange set up with a middle-man so to speak. If you are wantign to buy gear you can go to the exchange and place the most you are willing to pay for a certain item. Then crafter (or anyone willing to sell that gear) can browse the exchange and if they decide to sell for that price they can craft the item for you or place it on the exchange in return for the money. So it would not be an auction house per se, but it would function very similarly. The benefit over an auction house would be that price histories could not artificially affect the market value of goods. It would be a lot harder for RMT to ***** around with the system this way (at least in theory - we all know they will find loopholes in any system).

Any other ideas or info out there regarding the FFXIV market economy?

#2 Jul 02 2010 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
They're called "retainers", not "pack mules". It says specifically in the most recent interviews that your retainer will be able to sell goods for you while you're logged off. THere's also been talk of market wards. Exactly how they'll work, we don't know but it sounds like they'll be instanced.
#3 Jul 02 2010 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks. I knew they weren't officially called pack mules... hence the quotations.

Instanced market wards? I guess they will instance them to get the load of the ratainer characters off of the main gameplay servers. I can't quite wrap my brain around how this could be setup such that it doesn't consume an inordinate amount of time to shop for gear.
#4 Jul 02 2010 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
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I kinda like the Exchange idea, almost like a posting board for "I need this item" and can mail taht way but then would be a lil longer to get items if you need them right away.
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#5 Jul 02 2010 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
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I'm interested to know how many crafts you can take to cap. I'm speculating that you will be able to only level one Disciple of the Hand and one Disciple of the Land job to cap.
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#6 Jul 02 2010 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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Rysa wrote:
I'm interested to know how many crafts you can take to cap. I'm speculating that you will be able to only level one Disciple of the Hand and one Disciple of the Land job to cap.


Remember that craft disciplines are now on the same level as a combat oriented "job", and therefore ought to be subject to the same rules. I believe if there is any sort of cap as it pertains to skill in a discipline, it'll be subjective rather than an objective hard cap. You didn't see many people with all possible jobs in FFXI capped at 75 (and I'd wager you'll probably only have a couple people with all jobs capped at 99) because of the time and effort required to do such a thing. That will be the natural limitation, not a hard restriction like the craft skills of old, but more of a restriction from abundance of choice.

I'm sure there will be people who will be hardcore hand/land only and skill up all those classes, but that will mean a lack of combat disciplines as they spend no time on those.
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#7 Jul 02 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Instanced market wards? I guess they will instance them to get the load of the ratainer characters off of the main gameplay servers. I can't quite wrap my brain around how this could be setup such that it doesn't consume an inordinate amount of time to shop for gear.


How I've seen it done before is that you are capable of searching all the bazaars, much like an AH. In order to pick up that item, however, you need to physically travel to the player selling it. There's typically more than one instanced marketplace, one for every major locale.

The results are interesting. You don't have the rampant pricecutting of an AH because convenient location is something people will pay for. It's also harder to price control, in order to buy up the entirety of an item you need to travel hither and yon. If resources are specific to different locations, it really creates a 'local flavor' and there is some meaning to importing native goods to a foreign marketplace. You also keep a bazillion bazaar characters from cluttering up the streets.

No idea how feasible this is in XIV.
I'm kind of surprised more information about the marketplace didn't come along with information about retainers. That seemed like such an opportune moment to bring it up. Actually, for being on the inside of 3 months to release, there's a curious void of officially released information in some areas I'd consider pretty key.



Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 1:54pm by Zemzelette
#8 Jul 02 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
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Interesting. This begs the question: Will there be a mail delivery system?
#9 Jul 02 2010 at 11:58 AM Rating: Good
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The people your buying from are generally AFK, miles away from a mailbox, or signed off completely. So it's hard to use the mail system to circumvent the travel time. Again, no idea if XIV would even think to go this route.


Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 2:02pm by Zemzelette
#10 Jul 02 2010 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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I could fully see a retainer being your personal representative to an auction house style selling environment. Imagine that, instead of going to the auction house to list an item, you go into your "mog house" equivalent, talk to your retainer, instruct him to "stand" at the market and sell these items no lower than the designated prices.

The auction house becomes like the floor of the NYSE, but instead of you having to individually stand there and be involved in it, your retainer is. Someone offers to buy an item for a price, your retainer (virtually) responds to it and sells the item for the price, so long as it meets your specifications.

Retainers can be made into the auction system if, whenever you list an item for sale, it is "registered" with the "auction house" equivalent.

Similarly, you can designate items you give to your retainer as "storage" items that he is just to hold onto, or as "bazaar" items which is he instructed to stand and sell, thus avoiding auction house fees. Those willing to try to save some gil by venturing into the laggy dungeon of the Retainers' Ward will do so at their own disconnection risk; others will simply pay the fees to be listed on the auction exchange or pay a higher price to avoid the lag-filled Retainers' Ward, where you have to search for extended periods of time in order to find what you're actually looking for.

Could even set it up so that you can have your retainer both register an item for the AH while standing and trying to sell it in bazaar; set up two-tiered price.

There's no reason to suspect that there will be no centralized auction system.
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#11 Jul 02 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
There's no reason to suspect that there will be no centralized auction system.


For some reason I thought that it was stated with an air of certainty that no auction house would exist in FFXIV. Perhaps I was mistaken.

#12 Jul 02 2010 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
Mithsavvy wrote:
Quote:
There's no reason to suspect that there will be no centralized auction system.


For some reason I thought that it was stated with an air of certainty that no auction house would exist in FFXIV. Perhaps I was mistaken.



The devs said that they wanted to do something different from the auction house but they didn't go into any details in terms of functionality. There are a lot of different things they could do to put a twist on the concept and still retain the "one stop shopping" benefits of an auction system. I don't really see sending players running all over the place from one retainer to the next as being all the helpful or entertaining a mechanic.
#13 Jul 02 2010 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Mithsavvy wrote:
Quote:
There's no reason to suspect that there will be no centralized auction system.


For some reason I thought that it was stated with an air of certainty that no auction house would exist in FFXIV. Perhaps I was mistaken.



The devs said that they wanted to do something different from the auction house but they didn't go into any details in terms of functionality. There are a lot of different things they could do to put a twist on the concept and still retain the "one stop shopping" benefits of an auction system. I don't really see sending players running all over the place from one retainer to the next as being all the helpful or entertaining a mechanic.

This is true, unless they actually do set up some type of Market Ward, where people would gather their retainers. It's the only way i can see it actually working.
#14 Jul 02 2010 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
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From what I've gathered is retainer act like offline bazaars. You load up your retainer with goods, place them some where, then log off. In Aion your bazaar statement was visable to anyone walking by so they knew what you had to sell. I'm sure there is going to be an AH of sorts but to what fashion we don't know yet.

Also SE has said every character gets one retainer, "Retainers: First one is free with each additional one costing 100 yen (105 w/ tax). Additional player characters cost 300 yen (315 w/ tax) apiece every 30 days. Maximum of 8 characters." This is mostly likely designed so players don't have to use additional character just for "mules".

The most interesting thing about the new economy is weapon degrade which most likely means you need player interaction to repair you items. SE is really try hard to expand the crafting world from what was in FFXI. They seem to want players to have the option to be full time crafters instead of just a hobby. This might also mean you might have to take some crafters on end game raids to repair stuff on the run if it degrades to fast.
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#15 Jul 02 2010 at 6:51 PM Rating: Decent
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There was at least some plan to include an Auction House of some kind-- equipment is categorized similarly. Retainers are to work like an offline bazaar that will most likely be found in instanced marketplaces. Most likely there will be a way to search Retainers like you would look for an item in the Auction House.

Most likely the aim is to combine three basic ideas:
1) To allow players to continue to sell their goods while offline.
2) To create a "marketplace" feel for transactions.
3) To continue to allow players to find goods with ease.

But that is still highly conjectural.
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