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Two things I just realized...Follow

#1 Jul 02 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
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1. Weapon degredation 2. Treasure hunter effect

In watching one of the previous interviews he mentioned weapon degredation. I must have missed this tidbit prior to now. The reference was to crafting and why their services should remain in high demand. I think this is a good thing for crafers, but could be a pain in the *** for adventurers.

Speaking of adventurers... in going back to the FFXIV web site to read about Blacksmiths, I noticed that they said Blacksmiths can weaken enemies constructed of metal... and they can discover loot that would otherwise be missed by the untrained eye.

This will be interesting indeed. A blacksmith in your group can keep weapons in top shape, enfeeble metal-based enemies, and provide some type of treasure hunter effect.

I wasn't big on crafting in FFXI (despite being a 100 cook and 100 bonecrafter), but the "crafting" class in FFXIV sounds much much more involved in many aspects of the game.

Without knowing any more than we know right now, I'm going out on a small limb and say Expert Blacksmiths will be some of the richest players in the game.

I apologize if these things have been discussed at length on these forums already.... however, I have been realtively absent from these forums until the release date announcement got me all pumped up again.
#2 Jul 02 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, this information has been around for a while. It was a big hoopla a couple months ago as a lot of people don't like weapon degradation.
#3 Jul 02 2010 at 3:41 PM Rating: Excellent
Actually, XI was one of the few MMOs I've played that DIDN'T have some sort of weapon/armor degradation.

They've said items will never just flat out break, which was a huge relief when I read it. But still, the concept is nothing new.
#4 Jul 02 2010 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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That would be so rude seeing the FFXI "Level Down" effects on your FFXIV gear when it gets too damaged.
#5 Jul 02 2010 at 4:19 PM Rating: Good
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My concern is whether it's as simple as:

Weapon at 1%-100% = Acts as normal
Weapon at 0% = Cannot equip, or stats are severely weakened

...or if the weapon/armor's stats scale down as the gear degrades, suck that a piece of armor with +10 STR, at 60% quality, will only give +6 STR.

That would get on my nerves, because you'd have to repair things far more frequently, as opposed to waiting until it's low.

As an example, my gas tank.

If I have anywhere from "almost empty" to "totally full", my car works fine. It doesn't have a reduced acceleration or reduced top speed if I'm at half a tank or an eighth of a tank, but if I have no gas, it does not work until I fill it. As such, I tend not to fill my tank until I'm under 1/8-1/4 tank, and then I just fill it up.

It would be annoying if I had to keep putting $3-$5 in my tank every day to keep it running, or have a car that's slower than everyone else (except people with even less gas than me).

Especially when you consider that in a party setting, everyone needs to contribute to damage. So if you have 4 damage dealers and their gear is at 60%, 30%, 75%, and 25% average, the third guy is going to pull the weight of the party, and the fourth guy might as well not even be there. Remember the times where the party has to take a break or even break up entirely because the NIN ran out of shihei or because the ranger ran out of bullets/arrows? I could see this becoming a problem where parties would slow down over time if their weapon's performance degrades proportional to durability, and it would mean parties take breaks or fall apart more often. Terribly inconvenient for someone who keeps their gear at 100% and waits an hour or two before getting a party, only to break 30 mins later because the tank showed up to camp with gear at 15% and they keep dying.

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#6 Jul 02 2010 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia wrote:
My concern is whether it's as simple as:

Weapon at 1%-100% = Acts as normal
Weapon at 0% = Cannot equip, or stats are severely weakened

...or if the weapon/armor's stats scale down as the gear degrades, suck that a piece of armor with +10 STR, at 60% quality, will only give +6 STR.


I agree that it shouldn't be done this way, but I wouldn't be opposed to something where the item only loses 20% ability over the course of its 100/100 durability. So initially we have a 10+ Str 100/100 armor. Just before it breaks becoming unusable at 1/100 will have 8+ str (of course I hope they would do it mathematically and anything 8.444 and below would become 8). At 50/100 it will only have 9 str. This doesn't mean that you have to constantly repair, but it gives incentive to bring along the crafters which have been rumored to be important. Also, it adds a slight more sense of realism, because a dull blade would do less damage, and a dented armor would help protect less.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 6:37pm by burtonsnow
#7 Jul 02 2010 at 4:44 PM Rating: Good
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burtonsnow wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:
My concern is whether it's as simple as:

Weapon at 1%-100% = Acts as normal
Weapon at 0% = Cannot equip, or stats are severely weakened

...or if the weapon/armor's stats scale down as the gear degrades, suck that a piece of armor with +10 STR, at 60% quality, will only give +6 STR.


I agree that it shouldn't be done this way, but I wouldn't be opposed to something where the item only loses 20% ability over the course of its 100/100 durability. So initially we have a 10+ Str 100/100 armor. Just before it breaks becoming unusable at 1/100 will have 8+ str (of course I hope they would do it mathematically and anything 8.444 and below would become 8). At 50/100 it will only have 9 str. This doesn't mean that you have to constantly repair, but it gives incentive to bring along the crafters which have been rumored to be important. Also, it adds a slight more sense of realism, because a dull blade would do less damage, and a dented armor would help protect less.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 6:37pm by burtonsnow


I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily, because your idea isn't a bad one. I just figured I'd note that "realism" in a game is somewhat inconvenient at times. The easiest example is inventory space... like how a person who can carry 80 full size beds (but not 81 bottles of melon juice).

I do kinda like your thought though.
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[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#8 Jul 02 2010 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
I might be wrong; it's been a bit since I played EQ2.

The way their system worked was you had your armor degrade when you died (only). Obviously XIV will be different.

You could take it all the way down to 30% (at 10% intervals each death) until you started to see stat loss. At 0% it would essentially literally be like wearing nothing at all, and your weapons were next to useless.
#9 Jul 03 2010 at 2:44 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia wrote:
I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily, because your idea isn't a bad one. I just figured I'd note that "realism" in a game is somewhat inconvenient at times. The easiest example is inventory space... like how a person who can carry 80 full size beds (but not 81 bottles of melon juice).

I do kinda like your thought though.


I completely agree about that realism, but it is nice to retain some logical traits in the game occasionally. I also like the EQ2 way (if that is even how they do it).
#10 Jul 03 2010 at 3:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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SE has had a very quirky and uncanny way of incorporating real world things into their games, and a lot of it made sense really on a more simple level.

I can see them implementing something along the lines of:

100/100 armor = 100%

meaning that your armor performs at 100% capacity and the damage formula is calculated based on 100% of the armor's defense. A theorycraft formula would be something like:

((Mob Str - your vit) /armor %) = damage taken (Sorry it's a horrible example, but it's 3:00am and I can't really think lol, but you get my point.)

90/100 armor = 90%

meaning your armor performs at 90% capacity and the damage formula is now modified based on only 90% of your armor's defense so you'll take more damage.

But having this system would absolutely suck, because yes we would have to constantly fix our armor as Mikhalia stated. Though I would not be surprised if something like this were in effect though.
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#11 Jul 05 2010 at 8:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I plan on eventually leveling Blacksmith so I will be able to repair my armor/weapons, as well as my friends.

I believe it's as simple as having a hammer and clicking repair on the item? Could be wrong.
#12 Jul 05 2010 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
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the treasure hunter effect you mentioned may be something for desciples of land and hand to recognize materials for their craft that others would dismiss as scrap. So, you might be more likely to get scale pieces for scale mail or metal plates as a smith, ores as a miner, bait as a fisherman, etc.

then again, i could be completely off base.
#13 Jul 05 2010 at 8:39 AM Rating: Decent
Everything SE has said that durability loss (and its effects) will function as it does in other MMOs. (ie. not broken = 100% functionality, broken = 0% functionality until repaired). The durability % itself is just a countdown of sorts. "I can keep fighting for a while or die <x> number of times before things start to break and I have to go repair."

We haven't seen the crafting UI for equipment repairs yet. Whether it will be a one-button fix or similar to the crafting menu for making gear/items in general, we don't know. We do know that there's still no evidence to support the idea of bringing a dedicated <insert crafting discipline here> along for repairs. Considering the number of different crafters you'd need to have an entire group covered, it would be highly impractical. We can expect that if you find yourself in a group out in the middle of nowhere and suddenly need to repair your gear, someone in your party would be able to change weapons (tools) and do it for you and then switch back to their combat class. We know that the "abilities" of crafting classes will be something you can equip on combat classes (ie. the miner's ability to see quarry points or the "debuff" abilities of crafting professions).
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