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Time for a dirty word, RMTFollow

#1 Jul 02 2010 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
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We all know it and we all hate it, but my question is how far should SE go to combat them? I know for a fact based of previous release of several recent MMO that RMT will be there at the start in force. SE needs to nib this plague in the bud from the very start before it get bad.

Personally I would like to see acccounts, product keys, and IP address blocked for anyone caught and proven doing RMT. I would also like to see SE give out security token with every copy of FFXIV free of charge to help stop illegal hacks of accounts. I would also like to see suspected players sent to a Limbo area until the matter can be resolved.

They also need to have an easy reporting system for when you get /tells like "Best Prices for Gil!!! www.RMT.com"

What are your thoughts and ideas on this subject? What do you want to see SE doing about RMT?

Edited: caught and proven doing RMT, Limbo area
Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 7:04pm by dyvidd

Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 7:04pm by dyvidd

Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 7:29pm by dyvidd
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#2 Jul 02 2010 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
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well this reminds me of a famous Quote
" I rather let 10 guilty men go free than put one innocent man in jail"
i think SE will go to the ends of the earth to get rid of RMT, i think they would burn 10 good players to get rid of 1 RMT, i know that is harsh but thats the feeling i get from all the years playing FFXI, and all the stories of new people getting banned.
#3 Jul 02 2010 at 8:04 PM Rating: Good
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Well...I'm honestly not sure what can be done. Its a complicated problem that requires looking at every aspect of RMT. From the reason people sell stuff for real money to why people buy stuff for real money, and proving it happened in the first place. But I hope we can discuss all this in a very civil manner.

As far as I can tell, RMT in MMO's is like drug deals in the real world. We 'know' its going on, but its so much harder to prove some one is guilty of it compared to the ease of the transaction. What makes RMT that much more worse is that...in the real world you can find the drugs on a person, showing the guilt, but in an MMO proving a persons finances or items come from RMT is quite difficult unless you witnessed the deed going down (I assume, I actually wonder about the 'hows' of proving it...I might just lack imagination in that department.)

One of my greatest fears as a player wanting to join FFXIV as a full time crafter is the possibility of RMT taking it over. I'm truly afraid of how hypothetically easy it seems for RMT to play as full time Crafting and Gathering classes and be completely under the radar of SE, since going about there normal business of making gil is 'completely legal'. So I hope that SE has a amazing master plan that will keep RMT in check and make sure that doesn't happen... But how will they be able to tell the everyday player from an RMT?
#4 Jul 02 2010 at 9:13 PM Rating: Good
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Money gains in value the more difficult it is on average to produce materials (farming). Devaluing the money by making it easier to produce materials is the best way to make RMT a non-issue. Look at WoW. Farming items is super easy over there and RMT doesn't step on anyone's toes, simply because nothing is rare enough to be monopolized. RMT exists in WoW, but they really don't hurt the game the way they used to in FFXI. The biggest reason RMT is a problem in FFXI is because FFXI has such a hard edge to it. Everything is rare, from materials to equipment to NM spawns to good experience camps. This means more places for RMT to bump up against legit players and annoy them. That FFXIV is going to be somewhat less hardcore is already an indication that RMT will be less of a problem. The most important thing we don't know at this point is the AH system FFXIV will use. FFXI's AH does NOT help the RMT problem.
#5 Jul 02 2010 at 9:13 PM Rating: Good
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Sweet double post.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 11:24pm by DragoonRising
#6 Jul 02 2010 at 9:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know if they do this now in XI, but I hope they're banning the credit cards to the accounts they ban. Not doing so is almost asking the RMT to go out and buy another copy of the game easily and load it up again.

And I don't know much about IP masking but I think this could get worked around, IP banning that is, same w/ the CC.

At the end of the day, SE just has to make life as an RMT in XIV miserable enough that they don't do it and go to other games for the most part. Though I fear that in doing so, could make life miserable for everyone else as well.
#7 Jul 02 2010 at 11:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Actually Dragoon I'm going to have to stop you their because RMT does interupt and destroy players in WoW via hacking accounts. I myself received an email a month ago saying my account was closed due to RMT but hadn't played in over four months. Due to a hidden virus that lays dormant until the time is right they got my log in info.

I couldn't access my account because not only did RMT change my password but they also ordered a security token which made it impossible to log into my account without it. Long story short, I ended up calling WoW to delete my entire account, info in all to prevent I.D. theft.

What I don't get is since these RMT use all manner of "illegal" activities to steal information why don't these big companies hire 3rd party hackers to get names of all the characters that are RMT. Imagine www.RMT.com surprise when all their money was suddenly gone.
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#8 Jul 02 2010 at 11:57 PM Rating: Good
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dyvidd wrote:
Actually Dragoon I'm going to have to stop you their because RMT does interupt and destroy players in WoW via hacking accounts. I myself received an email a month ago saying my account was closed due to RMT but hadn't played in over four months. Due to a hidden virus that lays dormant until the time is right they got my log in info.

I couldn't access my account because not only did RMT change my password but they also ordered a security token which made it impossible to log into my account without it. Long story short, I ended up calling WoW to delete my entire account, info in all to prevent I.D. theft.

What I don't get is since these RMT use all manner of "illegal" activities to steal information why don't these big companies hire 3rd party hackers to get names of all the characters that are RMT. Imagine www.RMT.com surprise when all their money was suddenly gone.


I wouldn't say that RMT hacking accounts "destroys" WoW players. It annoys them, sure...

I say this as someone who's account was hacked last weekend. As is typical nowadays, the hacker put an authenticator on the account. So I simply went ahead and changed the password on them (because password changes are handled via the account's registered e-mail address, and don't go through the authenticator). I had my account back the next day. Granted, most of my gear is gone, but I'll be getting it back in a few days when Blizzard has finished reviewing the logs.

However, because WoW logs everything that goes on in game, when an account is reported as hacked, they do a little investigation. They can track where all the money goes, which means once they're done, thay can wipe out the RMT bank, return stolen gold and vendored gear, and ban both the RMT accounts and the gold-buyers' accounts.

If there's one thing about being hacked that warms my heart (other than the fact that in the long run it will have not hurt me at all), it's the fact that whoever bought the gold that came off my account now has nothing to show for what they spent and has been temporarily or permanently banned for it. ****, a guildmate of mine got a few free months of play out of getting hacked, becauseher account time had expired, and it got hacked before she could renew, so the hacker had to pay to reactivate the account.
#9 Jul 03 2010 at 4:58 AM Rating: Good
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Dragon hit a few good points, but I'll add a few too. Another reason RMT is less of a hassle is that WoW gear is typically bound to the character whereas there are all kind of gear in FFXI that wasn't rare/ex. They also went out their way to make no "super" items that are BIS, basically, at low levels. Things like the Leaping Boots and Emperor's Hairpin which were until late into the game, if ever, replaced. The fact that the best gear comes from raids helped too -- you can't buy your way into full epix (technically you can, but no competent player would do that). I forsee trade items will be the biggest issues (again) -- things like ores and logs and crap. SE will need to make sure they spread the love around and put items in multiple zones or better yet instances full of aggressive critters.

We can only pray that SE is smart enough not to put in any HNMs that pop on timers. Or at least make *all* the loot BOP.
#10 Jul 03 2010 at 7:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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I actually loved camping timed or place holder NMs. If you like hunting NMs, and you ever spent any amount of time camping the popular ones (i.e. Mee Deggi), you grew to love to hate the mob to the point that it increased your drive even more to get the ******. At least it did for me. I loved the rush.


I would agree that making the desired drop BoP would be nice. RMT won't monopolize that which they can't sell.
#11 Jul 03 2010 at 8:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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BastokFL wrote:
dyvidd wrote:
Actually Dragoon I'm going to have to stop you their because RMT does interupt and destroy players in WoW via hacking accounts. I myself received an email a month ago saying my account was closed due to RMT but hadn't played in over four months. Due to a hidden virus that lays dormant until the time is right they got my log in info.

I couldn't access my account because not only did RMT change my password but they also ordered a security token which made it impossible to log into my account without it. Long story short, I ended up calling WoW to delete my entire account, info in all to prevent I.D. theft.

What I don't get is since these RMT use all manner of "illegal" activities to steal information why don't these big companies hire 3rd party hackers to get names of all the characters that are RMT. Imagine www.RMT.com surprise when all their money was suddenly gone.


I wouldn't say that RMT hacking accounts "destroys" WoW players. It annoys them, sure...

I say this as someone who's account was hacked last weekend. As is typical nowadays, the hacker put an authenticator on the account. So I simply went ahead and changed the password on them (because password changes are handled via the account's registered e-mail address, and don't go through the authenticator). I had my account back the next day. Granted, most of my gear is gone, but I'll be getting it back in a few days when Blizzard has finished reviewing the logs.

However, because WoW logs everything that goes on in game, when an account is reported as hacked, they do a little investigation. They can track where all the money goes, which means once they're done, thay can wipe out the RMT bank, return stolen gold and vendored gear, and ban both the RMT accounts and the gold-buyers' accounts.

If there's one thing about being hacked that warms my heart (other than the fact that in the long run it will have not hurt me at all), it's the fact that whoever bought the gold that came off my account now has nothing to show for what they spent and has been temporarily or permanently banned for it. ****, a guildmate of mine got a few free months of play out of getting hacked, becauseher account time had expired, and it got hacked before she could renew, so the hacker had to pay to reactivate the account.


The only reason that hacking hasn't torn apart WoW is because Blizzard is extremely progressive about restoring hacked accounts to the victim, along with all of the items and gold that have been lost. And when they ban people for RMT activity, it's following an investigation by an actual human being, so people don't get banned for "suspicious activity." They get banned for really breaking the TOS.

I have two big wishes or concerns with RMT in FFXIV.

1) I hope that S-E has learned the folly of having static spawns in the open world that drop sellable, rare items. One of the main ways that RMT (and even non RMT) ruined the experience in FFXI was to monopolize Notorious Monster drops. Static loot or mobs is an invitation for bots and RMT. Bad design and I hope they're done with it.

2) I hope that S-E has learned that they can't just ban people for suspicious activity. It's better to let some RMT get away with their activities than to ban legitimate customers, because even when you ban RMT, they come back. When you ban innocent players, they rarely come back. No one wants to invest their time and money in an MMO only to have all of their progress snatched away by the incompetence of S-E. S-E really needs to step up their customer service this time around, hire more GMs and train them to deal with customers in an even handed way instead of the typical Square-Enix "The customer is always evil" mentality.

Like the illegal drug trade, I don't think that RMT is ever going away, because it's a demand driven business. A LOT of people, for whatever reasons, want to convert real cash to virtual stuff, and one way or another RMT services will find a way to meet that need. The best that I really expect from any MMO company is that they protect me from the nuisance that's associated with RMT, and that they are vigilant in banning those who are blatantly distorting the economy.
#12 Jul 03 2010 at 6:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Regardless of the game, I really dislike seeing bots. I just got a feeling that sometime in the far flung future, if I logon to FFXI 5 minutes before they turn their final server off, I would still see a fishing bot grinding away.

I wanted to post a confession from a player turned RMT from a different game, but I wanted to get the nod of approval from the moderators before posting it. What I found interesting about this guy's post is that he was amazed by "who" was buying his currency from his anonymous accounts. There is the unspoken side of the RMT trade, the high level players who spend a ton of RL cash for game currency.
#13 Jul 04 2010 at 10:58 PM Rating: Good
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The account hacking problems in WoW are a valid point, and quite a serious problem. I could be unkind and imply that WoW players get hacked more often because they're less intelligent, but it's more likely that it's just the best way to get gold since farming has such a low output. FFXI has its own account security problems, of course. Certainly NMs on long timers are one of the best ways to cause RMT and legitimate players to clash. Also certainly, making most of the worthwhile items bind on pickup and only available in instanced dungeons is a good way to keep RMT and legitimate players from clashing.

RMT are always a problem. I take the hard-line view that players who buy from them should be banned from the game, but I also understand that stance is not good for SE's business. The best strategy SE could take is to greatly increase the authority of GMs in the fight against RMT. FFXI's GMs have authority to do little more than teleport you out of wold geometry and put people in jail for saying mean things. They are possibly the least empowered GMs in history, at least from what I've seen, and the game suffers for it. They need to be allowed to do their job: be the game's police. Your town's police have the authority to arrest you and hold you bodily if they have probable cause to suspect you of a crime. The GMs in FFXI need absolute proof that you've done anything wrong to put you in Moridan Gaol even briefly. Obviously constraints are needed, but the ones in place now err far too much on the side of caution.

Certainly being named "fasdfdfsdsfaa," and being in a party with "sadfasdf," "dsfopighdfns," and "gffsdfgsdfhs" is probable cause? Now that all four are in jail, not bothering anyone else, an examination by a dedicated specialist of their chat logs, IP blocks, locations, payment methods, and past in-game transactions will either clear them or require they be held longer while someone farther up the chain makes a decision. Remember, being arrested does not mean you are convicted. In this case, being jailed for a few hours doesn't mean you're going to be banned, or even that you're being punished. You're being held briefly while everything is sorted out. In the event the four are innocent, and maybe just come from a part of the world where those series of letters can actually be pronounced, they are released with an apology, perhaps a small gift for their time (a single use EXP ring seems appropriate), and an interesting story to tell. They also have to play something else for one evening.

One very serious concern is that such a system can be abused by someone with a grudge. Even worse, a group with a grudge. Obviously the GMs' policy needs to be written to work in an environment where companies (to use FFXIV's terminology) compete and might be tempted to accuse each others' players of various misdeeds. I think it can be done in such a way to minimize abuse and maximize legitimate use. I also think legitimate companies are unlikely to abuse the system. The biggest concern comes from misuse of the system by the very RMT it is designed to combat. It is unfortunate that there is not a more severe punishment than banning that might be reserved for knowingly accusing an innocent player. I don't have all the answers, it seems.
#14 Jul 04 2010 at 11:34 PM Rating: Excellent
The reason RMT have resorted to hacking WoW accounts for gold is because Blizzard has tuned the game so that nothing is so onerous to get that buying gold and risk having your account banned really seems all that worthwhile. Supply is enough to meet demand in most cases and Blizzard has actually stepped in to correct supply issues when it wasn't. SE NEVER did anything like that with XI. In WoW, if Blizzard sees a high-demand item (ie. crafting material) that is selling for extremely high prices for an extended period of time, they increase drop rates. Problem solved. It's not just about finding and banning farmers/sellers...it's about tuning the game to reduce the demand for the services of the farmers/sellers.

There are tools available to MMO developers to address RMT much more effectively than anything SE ever did. There is no perfect solution, but there's plenty of room for improvement over SE's track record.

Edited, Jul 5th 2010 11:34am by Aurelius
#15 Jul 05 2010 at 1:50 AM Rating: Good
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RMT is extremely annoying and I think it does ruin the game. It's also really funny.

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We have FFXIV Gil, FFXIV items, FFXIV Power Leveling, FFXIV account, FFXIV character, FFXIV items Services. Get FFXIV Gil asap? Buy FFXIV Gil now !


Apparently they were invited to the Beta.
#16 Jul 05 2010 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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TheMounty wrote:
RMT is extremely annoying and I think it does ruin the game. It's also really funny.

Quote:
We have FFXIV Gil, FFXIV items, FFXIV Power Leveling, FFXIV account, FFXIV character, FFXIV items Services. Get FFXIV Gil asap? Buy FFXIV Gil now !


Apparently they were invited to the Beta.


You better believe it. There's no doubt they're in beta already looking for the best ways to make money.
#17xthunderblazex, Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 12:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) RMT keep the game alive.
#18 Jul 05 2010 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
xthunderblazex wrote:
RMT keep the game alive.

They keep getting banned, and they keep buying more copies = More money for SE = longer they can keep game going, and also the more they can pad their subscription numbers to make themselves look good.

I doubt they will do anything to RMT for at least 6months, that way they can have nice big numbers.



You're forgetting that the biggest RMT life/death cycles come from the Free Trial. You'll notice SE has canceled that. Also, SE has been very clear that they're going to be combating RMT aggressively from day one.

Sure, at the start everyone needs a registration key. But SE doesn't receive all the profits from software sales. A huge chunk of that goes to the software publisher. SE writes the code, the vendor company puts that code on the DVDs and sells it to retailers. Who knows what's going on in China though. RMT companies do go through a lot of accounts even without a free trial. I wouldn't put it past these companies to just steal a bunch of game copies to reduce overhead.

RMT does not keep the game alive, not by a longshot. At XI's peak, they had 500,000 subscribers. I'd be willing to bet that 1%.. maybe 2 or 3 makes up the RMT population.
#19 Jul 05 2010 at 9:36 PM Rating: Default
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mechaboydx wrote:


We can only pray that SE is smart enough not to put in any HNMs that pop on timers. Or at least make *all* the loot BOP.


Nalamwen wrote:

I would agree that making the desired drop BoP would be nice. RMT won't monopolize that which they can't sell.



We call that Rare/Ex around here. FFXIV is not WoW.


Rare/Ex stuff gets sold all the time in FFXI so I don't see how FFXIV will be any different.

Edited, Jul 6th 2010 12:38am by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#20 Jul 06 2010 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
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Getting banned seems to be a light penalty.

I always wondered why Square doesn't sue the companies that sell gil online. easy to find, just google and sue.

Isn't it illegal in the real world sense? You could surely prove some kind of detrimental monetary loss, no?
#21 Jul 06 2010 at 8:44 AM Rating: Good
Lobivopis wrote:
We call that Rare/Ex around here. FFXIV is not WoW.


Rare/Ex stuff gets sold all the time in FFXI so I don't see how FFXIV will be any different.


FFXIV is not FFXI. That means we call it what makes sense unless and until we see what it's called in FFXIV and come up with something else. Do you understand what BoP means? Good. What about BoE? Did FFXI have a term for gear that bound on equip? No? Oh...I guess that would put the XI crowd at a disadvantage if SE went with that model for some things in XI. Then what? Make up something stupid while crying about terms used in other games outside XI? "Nooooo...must not call it BoE...must....preserve........XI....."
#22 Jul 06 2010 at 9:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
We call that Rare/Ex around here. FFXIV is not WoW.


I played WoW for less than two months several years ago, I didn't even recall that WoW used that term. It's not the only game that uses Bind on Pickup and Bind on Equip, apparently.

Quote:
Rare/Ex stuff gets sold all the time in FFXI so I don't see how FFXIV will be any different.



Please post a quote or a link of where SE said they're going to do rare drops exactly like FFXI.
#23 Jul 06 2010 at 9:20 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
FFXIV is not FFXI. That means we call it what makes sense unless and until we see what it's called in FFXIV and come up with something else. Do you understand what BoP means? Good. What about BoE? Did FFXI have a term for gear that bound on equip? No? Oh...I guess that would put the XI crowd at a disadvantage if SE went with that model for some things in XI. Then what? Make up something stupid while crying about terms used in other games outside XI? "Nooooo...must not call it BoE...must....preserve........XI....."
This isn't WoW either so BoP and BoE don't apply. And yea, FFXI did have it. It's called EX (Transfer Exclusive) if you bothered to do your homework before calling a game as crap. I get you don't like FFXI or the fact that people use FFXI to refer it to FFXIV but should get used to it because people are going use FFXI as a reference just as much as they use WoW.
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#24 Jul 06 2010 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
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dyvidd wrote:
Quote:
FFXIV is not FFXI. That means we call it what makes sense unless and until we see what it's called in FFXIV and come up with something else. Do you understand what BoP means? Good. What about BoE? Did FFXI have a term for gear that bound on equip? No? Oh...I guess that would put the XI crowd at a disadvantage if SE went with that model for some things in XI. Then what? Make up something stupid while crying about terms used in other games outside XI? "Nooooo...must not call it BoE...must....preserve........XI....."
This isn't WoW either so BoP and BoE don't apply. And yea, FFXI did have it. It's called EX (Transfer Exclusive) if you bothered to do your homework before calling a game as crap. I get you don't like FFXI or the fact that people use FFXI to refer it to FFXIV but should get used to it because people are going use FFXI as a reference just as much as they use WoW.


You both missed his point and proved it entirely.

The point was that FFXIV isn't either of the games, so refrencing either BoP or Rare/EX is ok, since it is just a reference and FFXIV hasn't established it's own name for items just yet.


To tell someone not to call it BoP and BoE because this isn't WoW is as stupid as telling someone not to call it Rare/EX or EX because it isn't FFXI either.
#25 Jul 06 2010 at 10:16 AM Rating: Default
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I know, I just hate it when he blast FFXI and acts like WoW is the best thing since sliced bread. Both have their strengths and their faults.
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#26 Jul 06 2010 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
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dyvidd wrote:
Quote:
FFXIV is not FFXI. That means we call it what makes sense unless and until we see what it's called in FFXIV and come up with something else. Do you understand what BoP means? Good. What about BoE? Did FFXI have a term for gear that bound on equip? No? Oh...I guess that would put the XI crowd at a disadvantage if SE went with that model for some things in XI. Then what? Make up something stupid while crying about terms used in other games outside XI? "Nooooo...must not call it BoE...must....preserve........XI....."
This isn't WoW either so BoP and BoE don't apply. And yea, FFXI did have it. It's called EX (Transfer Exclusive) if you bothered to do your homework before calling a game as crap.


He did his homework (Aurelius played FFXI for several years); you should have done yours. FFXI's Ex corresponds to BoP only.

FFXI has nothing that corresponds to BoE, because there are no items that only receive the Ex tag after being equipped/used for the first time.
#27 Jul 06 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Default
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And I played WoW for several years, so what's the point. Bind is bound no matter if you equip it or not. Only real difference is no bind on equip loses it's resale value after use.

On a side note I'm done posted on these silly arguements because they are not only pointless but they lead no where except hours of wasted time. Like the quote says, "Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one and they all stink."
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#28 Jul 06 2010 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
And I played WoW for several years, so what's the point. Bind is bound no matter if you equip it or not. Only real difference is no bind on equip loses it's resale value after use.


I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. You claim that you played WoW for several years and then claim that "bind is bound" and that BoE = Ex? Dude, you're out of your **** mind. BoE is exactly the same as any non bound item until the point where someone equips it. Ex is nothing like BoE. FF XI has nothing that even approaches BoE.

I agree with you on BoP = Ra/Ex. That's fine. I don't care if someone uses the term, and it makes sense either way since we have no idea in what way the game will label non-tradables. But to say that people shouldn't use BoE cause FF XI already has the term is flat ignorant.
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#29 Jul 06 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
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Getting back on topc:

The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
The reason RMT have resorted to hacking WoW accounts for gold is because Blizzard has tuned the game so that nothing is so onerous to get that buying gold and risk having your account banned really seems all that worthwhile. Supply is enough to meet demand in most cases and Blizzard has actually stepped in to correct supply issues when it wasn't. SE NEVER did anything like that with XI. In WoW, if Blizzard sees a high-demand item (ie. crafting material) that is selling for extremely high prices for an extended period of time, they increase drop rates. Problem solved. It's not just about finding and banning farmers/sellers...it's about tuning the game to reduce the demand for the services of the farmers/sellers.


This. It's not a sin to muck around in your game's economy by adjusting drop rates. No person or system can accurately predict how the economy will turn out before letting it run for a few months. Mind you, this should be done secretly and never at the request of the players. In fact, there should be a specialist on the game's core team that's learned in economics whose job it is to monitor and adjust the economy.

As for suing RMT companies, international lawsuits tend to take a very long time and cost more than they're worth. Perhaps a better solution would be to have a special special task force in the STFU that concentrates on finding all the mules, agents, and in-game holdings of a specific RMT group (likely the largest one at the time), and after much information is gathered, tries to bankrupt that group by taking all its assets at once, banning all their characters and credit cards, and keeping the pressure on. The biggest unknown is whether, if the groups get wise and break into hundreds of smaller groups, they will cause more or less damage to the game. The theory is that smaller groups aren't economically viable and will die out. Remember that it is dedicated RMT teams that tend to have the largest negative impact on the game, aside from single RMT crafters. Players selling off their extra cash have very little impact; probably less than buyers.
#30 Jul 06 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
dyvidd wrote:
I know, I just hate it when he blast FFXI and acts like WoW is the best thing since sliced bread. Both have their strengths and their faults.


Your bias never ceases to disappoint me. *I* responded to someone who was ******** at someone else for using a "WoW" term. Why aren't you giving them **** for blasting WoW and acting like XI was the best thing since sliced bread? Oh...because you're a fanboy. Gotcha. Carry on.
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