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Job System/Class System Lacking?Follow

#1 Jul 03 2010 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
I hope and pray that they havent updated the part of the website that describes the character class. 4 physical classes and only 2 magical ones? Come on, this is FF I want a few more, and am still holding my breath
#2 Jul 03 2010 at 2:31 PM Rating: Default
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ITT: Quantity > Quality.
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#3 Jul 03 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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LiquidOsmosis wrote:
I hope and pray that they havent updated the part of the website that describes the character class. 4 physical classes and only 2 magical ones? Come on, this is FF I want a few more, and am still holding my breath


There will be quite a few more, though it's hard to know how many will be available at release and how many will be added after release. I'd love to tell you more, but the game is technically still in Alpha, and under an NDA, so even data mined information is forbidden here. You'll just have to be patient and see what unfolds as beta goes along.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2010 4:40pm by KarlHungis
#4 Jul 03 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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It seems like they'll be starting FFXIV retail with the classes listed, but we all know that there are definitely a lot more that haven't been publicly revealed. Since they're releasing the PS3 version a bit later than the PC version, it could make sense that they release a few more classes when the PS3 version goes retail, too. That would mean that a lot of PC players would be starting over at the same time!

Either way, didn't FFXI and WoW both start out with six classes, and expand on them later?
#5 Jul 03 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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Chikama wrote:
It seems like they'll be starting FFXIV retail with the classes listed, but we all know that there are definitely a lot more that haven't been publicly revealed. Since they're releasing the PS3 version a bit later than the PC version, it could make sense that they release a few more classes when the PS3 version goes retail, too. That would mean that a lot of PC players would be starting over at the same time!

Either way, didn't FFXI and WoW both start out with six classes, and expand on them later?


Wow started with 9 classes (but only Alliance could be Paladins and only horde could be Shaman). Later on they allowed the Shaman and Paladin for both factions, and in the most recent expansion they added one new class.

FFXI started with just WHM, RDM, BLM, THF, WAR, MNK and all the others (all the advanced jobs) were added post release, though most of them were available when FFXI was released in North America.
#6 Jul 03 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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Well doesn't disciplines of the Hand/Land count as a class?
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#7 Jul 03 2010 at 3:13 PM Rating: Good
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dyvidd wrote:
Well doesn't disciplines of the Hand/Land count as a class?


S-E does count them as a class. However, while they may provide combat perks, they aren't combat classes per se, so those who have no interest in crafting may not consider them to be worthy alternatives.

One minor point for the OP as well. There have been 7 combat classes revealed so far, 5 disciples of war, 2 disciples of magic.
#8 Jul 03 2010 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I think they are focusing on getting the DoL/DoH classes ready for retail. Y'know, the classes that have crucial part in the economy of the game. Aside from few exceptions (Musketeer), most combat classes can wait 'till later.
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#9 Jul 03 2010 at 3:37 PM Rating: Decent
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You are also forgetting the fact that they have allowed jobs to retain certain traits learned from other classes. I think although maybe we have only 7 labeled classes, the available configurations may be limitless (depending on how well SE scales the traits in their subjob state).
#10 Jul 03 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
burtonsnow wrote:
You are also forgetting the fact that they have allowed jobs to retain certain traits learned from other classes. I think although maybe we have only 7 labeled classes, the available configurations may be limitless (depending on how well SE scales the traits in their subjob state).


It does look this way... which I think is awesome. I suppose in future patches now, they wouldn't be adding "classes" so much as new starting specs with newly available skills/traits/etc... labeled as a new class.
#11 Jul 03 2010 at 4:19 PM Rating: Good
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The idea here is that these classes are the primordial ooze from which you sculpt your character. Each class is little more than a primary color, a vial of chemical, a stack of vegetables. At first flush they seem pretty bland, but that's because it's on your head to combine ingredients together to actually make something.

A better frame of mind to approach more skill-based games is to decide what kind of class you want to play, and see if it can done within the system. I want to wield and lance and buff people. I want to wield a bow and drain attributes and HP from my foes. I want to be a tank mainly focused on avoiding damage and I don't care what I'm wielding.

Right now, I'd actually agree with your original assessment for completely different reasons. Without getting too specific, there's a nasty and unavoidable Catch 22 that limits your freedom severely for seemingly arbitrary reasons. It might be fixed come Beta time, but, as it stands unofficially the system could use work.
#12 Jul 03 2010 at 5:10 PM Rating: Good
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Right now, I'd actually agree with your original assessment for completely different reasons. Without getting too specific, there's a nasty and unavoidable Catch 22 that limits your freedom severely for seemingly arbitrary reasons. It might be fixed come Beta time, but, as it stands unofficially the system could use work.


You peeked my interest, what are your reasons for agreeing with the OP?
#13 Jul 03 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow started with 9 classes (but only Alliance could be Paladins


I want to remember that at WoW release, Paladins didn't even have a talent tree system.
#14 Jul 03 2010 at 5:26 PM Rating: Decent
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It does look this way... which I think is awesome. I suppose in future patches now, they wouldn't be adding "classes" so much as new starting specs with newly available skills/traits/etc... labeled as a new class.


Are they going the route that if you want to unlock a new class, you have to reach a combination of levels between some crafting and fighting level?
#15 Jul 03 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
rubina wrote:
Quote:
It does look this way... which I think is awesome. I suppose in future patches now, they wouldn't be adding "classes" so much as new starting specs with newly available skills/traits/etc... labeled as a new class.


Are they going the route that if you want to unlock a new class, you have to reach a combination of levels between some crafting and fighting level?



We have no way of knowing that unfortunately. Not until the game is out I'd guess. But knowing SE's history with XI, we'll probably have to reach a certain physical level before we can unlock any advanced stuff.
#16 Jul 03 2010 at 6:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Wait, how can you even consider there to be only " 5 disciples of war, 2 disciples of magic, then the crafters"

this game's "job system" is to basically CREATE YOUR OWN JOB you prize grab for the skills you want to create the job of your choice.

Is it me or did pretty much everyone in this thread fall for the troll and forget that very fact of what SE is trying to do with their new armory system?

Also as many times as this has been said by SE reps themselves, the realms of FFXI and FFXIV ARE SEPARATE AND HAVE NO CORRELATION BETWEEN THE TWO IN ALMOST EVERY WAY!

Edited, Jul 3rd 2010 8:22pm by PandhaBear
#17 Jul 03 2010 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
PandhaBear wrote:
Wait, how can you even consider there to be only " 5 disciples of war, 2 disciples of magic, then the crafters"

this game's "job system" is to basically CREATE YOUR OWN JOB you prize grab for the skills you want to create the job of your choice.

Is it me or did pretty much everyone in this thread fall for the troll and forget that very fact of what SE is trying to do with their new armory system?

Also as many times as this has been said by SE reps themselves, the realms of FFXI and FFXIV ARE SEPARATE AND HAVE NO CORRELATION BETWEEN THE TWO IN ALMOST EVERY WAY!

Edited, Jul 3rd 2010 8:22pm by PandhaBear


Calm down there, tiger. Smiley: wink

This game is going to allow for more freedom in the classes, yes. BUT... it's not going to be like UO or something where you have true hybridization. You can have elements of mage classes on your class lancer, but you can't specialize.

Based off what I've seen from Alpha leak vids and screenies, at least. I suppose anything's possible.
#18 Jul 03 2010 at 6:51 PM Rating: Decent
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I still don't understand the class system. I mean, if we change weapon/tool, then we shift from one class to another, right? So maybe it is not so important the number of classes that u can choose (at the very beginning), but the number and quality of weapons / tools that you will get in the game...? If anyone can clarify this, I would be very glad.
#19 Jul 03 2010 at 7:05 PM Rating: Good
desertbynight wrote:
I still don't understand the class system. I mean, if we change weapon/tool, then we shift from one class to another, right? So maybe it is not so important the number of classes that u can choose (at the very beginning), but the number and quality of weapons / tools that you will get in the game...? If anyone can clarify this, I would be very glad.


No, you're right to be a bit confused. And you make a good point. If classes don't really matter, then why would changing one's weapon make any difference?


The best estimate that I can give, based on what we know so far? Classes are not so much locked into a specific specialization; we already know we can add elements from other classes into, say, Lancer. We won't be able to create our own true, pure hybrids. You can't go half Conjurer half Lancer unless there's already a class for that.

Then you have to factor in the Physical level vs Class level. It's pretty confusing, lol.
#20 Jul 03 2010 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
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KarlHungis wrote:
FFXI started with just WHM, RDM, BLM, THF, WAR, MNK and all the others (all the advanced jobs) were added post release, though most of them were available when FFXI was released in North America.


The first five advanced jobs (PLD, DRK, BST, BRD, RNG) were available the day the game went live. They weren't initially available when the beta started, but beta doesn't count.
#21 Jul 03 2010 at 7:40 PM Rating: Good
BastokFL wrote:
KarlHungis wrote:
FFXI started with just WHM, RDM, BLM, THF, WAR, MNK and all the others (all the advanced jobs) were added post release, though most of them were available when FFXI was released in North America.


The first five advanced jobs (PLD, DRK, BST, BRD, RNG) were available the day the game went live. They weren't initially available when the beta started, but beta doesn't count.


Live in Japan or live in the US?
#22 Jul 03 2010 at 8:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Like they said in the interviews about the job/armory system, it makes A LOT more sense when you see it in action rather than theorizing about it.
#23 Jul 03 2010 at 8:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
BastokFL wrote:
KarlHungis wrote:
FFXI started with just WHM, RDM, BLM, THF, WAR, MNK and all the others (all the advanced jobs) were added post release, though most of them were available when FFXI was released in North America.


The first five advanced jobs (PLD, DRK, BST, BRD, RNG) were available the day the game went live. They weren't initially available when the beta started, but beta doesn't count.


Live in Japan or live in the US?


Live in Japan, all advanced jobs prior to ToAU were live in the US release.

Anyways, as others have said, these are less true classes and more the skills from whence your character is formed. You have set points for abilities and traits, and you can set any ability or trait that you've learned up to your maximum skill level thus allowing you to form the class to your liking. Some abilities may be more effective or less effective depending on your primary weapon, and a very, very small number of abilities will not be able to be equipped with anything but their primary weapon, but for the most part you'll have a lot of freedom.

How well that freedom carries over has 100% to do with the itemization. So I'm not worried even if there are only the announced classes at launch, there will be more to come, even before the next expansion, as SE has stated.

#24 Jul 03 2010 at 9:19 PM Rating: Decent
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When thinking on how this whole armory system work I like to think about FF Tactics or FFV. Think of the weapon as jobs, when you gain so many points you unlock a new ability you can set in your abilities window. Lets take Gladiator as an example, you need 2000 skill points in staff to unlock "provoke". Now you decide you want to be lancer that can tank. Since you know the provoke ability, you place it in your action bar and tada, you know have a lancer that can provoke. This is why they say you can make your own job or recreate jobs from other Final Fantasy games.

Not really sure on how physical level works since the change from Alpha to Beta but I know they changed it up from you picking where to place your points.

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#25 Jul 03 2010 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
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dyvidd wrote:
When thinking on how this whole armory system work I like to think about FF Tactics or FFV. Think of the weapon as jobs, when you gain so many points you unlock a new ability you can set in your abilities window. Lets take Gladiator as an example, you need 2000 skill points in staff to unlock "provoke". Now you decide you want to be lancer that can tank. Since you know the provoke ability, you place it in your action bar and tada, you know have a lancer that can provoke. This is why they say you can make your own job or recreate jobs from other Final Fantasy games.

Not really sure on how physical level works since the change from Alpha to Beta but I know they changed it up from you picking where to place your points.


No, they just divided it into 3 sections that have 3 different point distributions. HP/MP. Traditional Statistics (Strength etc). and Elemental Distribution. This is to enforce a more evened out approach, as very few people were raising element, and even HP and MP.

Tactics is an okay example, a better example for those that played FFXI would be the Blue Mage's spell setting system, it's pretty much exactly like that, only traits don't derive from abilities, they're set on their own. As your physical level goes up, you get more slots/points.
#26 Jul 03 2010 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Ah, thanks Ramsey
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#27 Jul 05 2010 at 5:35 AM Rating: Default
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Here are some jobs that are in the Alpha/Beta file folders with first 3 letters as job identifiers:

FNC = Fencer (Uses a Rapier)

ENF = Enforcer (Uses a Mace)

MSK = Musketeer (Uses a Gun)

MYS = Mystic (Uses a Mystic Weapon)

ACN = Archanist (Uses an Archanist Weapon)

WDK = Woodworker

ARM = Armorer

GLD = Goldsmith

WVR = Weaver

ALC = Alchemist

CUL = Culinarian

HRV = Harvester

FSH = Fisher

SHP = Shepherd
#28 Jul 05 2010 at 5:40 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm thinking since they said you can pretty much make your own class that after several weapon levels, you can upgrade to a different class, while retaining your current learned skills.
Like a blacksmith or miner can upgrade to an armorer or goldsmith.
Gladiator or marauder can become a fencer or enforcer.
Archer can become thief, ninja, or musketeer.
Maybe a Lancer can become a dragoon lol.
#29 Jul 05 2010 at 6:26 AM Rating: Good
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Also, do not forget that just how it happened with FFXI, they will be more updates and expansions, adding new content, this will probably include new classes.

:)
#30 Jul 05 2010 at 7:39 AM Rating: Default
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There are more confirmed classes they just haven't bothered adding to the site yet as well, such as Fisherman.

There are a few more DoM, but they aren't in the game yet, expect to see more info on them in a month or two.


Edit: FYI they said they will Not be adding things like White Mage, the point of the system is...you create your own version of White Mage.

Edited, Jul 5th 2010 9:40am by xthunderblazex
#31 Jul 05 2010 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Job System/Class System Lacking?


Need more coffee. For a split second I thought the title was for a RL "earn $20,000/month" type spam. (>_<);;;
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