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FFXIV: Already unable to compete with years old competitionFollow

#1 Jul 03 2010 at 6:32 PM Rating: Default
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One of my favorite things to do in an MMO is create an entire cast of my own characters to level up with different jobs/classes and professions. I figured this was something that would definitely be fixed, as in XI, they charged extra for every character you wanted to make.

Oh look, this time it's $3.00 extra per character. GOD DAMMIT SE. I'm not even going to pay that much for a mule this time. Why do they hate their subscribers?
#2 Jul 03 2010 at 6:34 PM Rating: Decent
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They don't hate us... They just like the money a little lot more. :3
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#3 Jul 03 2010 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
Why do you assume that you'll need as many mules in XIV that you (presumably) did in XI?

If you played XI, you'd know how rare it is for people to have more than 1 serious, main character. You just don't need it in XI and with the racial stats being more balanced out, it's even less practical in XIV. Unless you just really want to see yourself as another race. Or, I suppose, you seriously RP.
#4 Jul 03 2010 at 6:38 PM Rating: Decent
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I hardly ever use mules, I just like to make multiple characters. I can't play more than one at a time, so why the **** should I have to pay for it?
#5 Jul 03 2010 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
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It's probably a countermeasure against RMT. as for the Mule, it seems SE will will be giving us more inventory space as well as more options. I remember seeing a screenshot of a character starting with 80inv, not to mention chocobo's being used to haul our items and equipment(least that's what SE mentioned.)
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#6 Jul 03 2010 at 7:07 PM Rating: Decent
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No matter how I look at it, I don't see this as a worse thing than what MMO's of today offer.

Recent MMO's: You can make as many characters as you wish. However, certain races can only be certain classes and you can only play one class on one character, and in the worst case can not even do all the content in the game with it.

FFXIV: There are no race/class limitations, you can play every class with one character, be able to complete all the content in the game with one character, and have the option to make more characters for extra fee if you wish.

As far as my opinion goes, having the choice to do something > not having the choice at all.

Granted it is easy to do it better than SE does it now, but SE is already doing it better than most MMO's out there, old and upcoming. In this case.

Edited, Jul 4th 2010 1:07am by Hyanmen
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#7 Jul 03 2010 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
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as well as the fact SE has already stated that:



* Each account is eligible for one free retainer (a non-playable character that maintains item sales and storage when users are logged out) with each additional retainer costing £0.70 ($1.00).



so mules, are the same price, characters to make money via farming / level are more expensive. and we start with a free mule.

Source

Edited, Jul 3rd 2010 9:28pm by Naeo
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#8 Jul 03 2010 at 7:33 PM Rating: Default
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Well other MMO's don't allow you to change different job on the same character and require you to make different more toons if you want to play another job. This shouldn't be much of a shock if you are famaliar with SE's other MMO, FFXI. I for one hated created characters that looked the same with a different twist on the name to try another class.
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#9 Jul 03 2010 at 7:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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lol why were RMTs even brought up? most MMO players like having more than one char for veriety. i only want a lalafell and an elezen because i love the way they both look, so im required to pay eeeeeeeeeeven more for that? oh yay one retainer used for an offline bazaar, how does that have anything to do with enjoying diff char models?
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#10 Jul 03 2010 at 7:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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:p You know, they could still have that all classes available system and also get additional characters for free.
Nothing stopping them, other than maybe Wada

$1.00 per month for inventory space may or may not be bad depending on how much they give you. I begrudgingly award them points for introducing something commonly found in a cash shop in a way so round-about as to avoid persecution.

But the $3.00/ mo. per additional character isn't even trying to be subtle.




Edited, Jul 3rd 2010 9:54pm by Zemzelette
#11 Jul 03 2010 at 7:53 PM Rating: Excellent
Zemzelette wrote:

:p You know, they could still have that system and also give you additional characters for free.
Nothing stopping them, other than maybe Wada

$1.00 per month for inventory space may or may not be bad depending on how much they give you. I begrudgingly award them points for introducing something commonly found in a cash shop in a way so round-about as to avoid persecution.

But the $3.00/ mo. per additional character isn't even trying to be subtle.



3/mo is very steep... bad form, SE. Also, bad PR once gaming sites start to report it.
#12 Jul 03 2010 at 7:56 PM Rating: Default
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3/mo is very steep... bad form, SE. Also, bad PR once gaming sites start to report it.


And in the end it's still better than how all other MMO's do it... way to go humanity, way to go.
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#13 Jul 03 2010 at 7:58 PM Rating: Good
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I think it's quite funny that no matter what Square Enix does there are people on Alla who will try to make sense of it and argue that it is some how right. Not everything they do is right. I'm a huge fan, and I think almost everything they do is right and they are by far the best MMORPG developer, however there ARE things they do wrong. I read these threads about the poor PS3 users being delayed 6 months past PC released (and I'm a PC user myself) and people make these threads like "Hey, why's everyone complaining? It's no big deal! Score: Excellent". It's quite saddening.

Honestly, without having to deal with "PS2 limitations" we shouldn't even need a "retainer" or mule characters. We should have enough inventory and storage to suit our needs just fine and more, but to me it looks like it's a under handed way of getting a few extra bucks a month from subscription fees. I personally just hate having to mule for gear.

The other, main issue, is that most people who play MMORPGs, especially at the start, like to start off with a few characters, level them up, try them out, and see which one suits them best. And y'know what? It really is heavily dependent on the aesthetics of your character, and at first you might not know which one suits you best in that regard. Also, I was looking forward to the fact that if it's a more "casual friendly" game I could level up several different characters. This is just part of the fun for most people.

But $3?! $1 was crazy enough as is but I could live with that per-extra character, but $3? That's really just stupid...
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#14 Jul 03 2010 at 8:06 PM Rating: Default
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I'm not so much defending SE as I am looking at other MMO's and being amazed at how SE can pull a stunt like this and still make it fairer for the most consumers than what other MMO's do.

It's amazing that MMO's haven't catched up to XI in 8 years in this regard.
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#15 Jul 03 2010 at 8:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Have you ever thought that there is a reason behind a 3 dollar price per alt. I mean I'm sure SE heard what some of the player base wanted (free alts) but you don't have to give them everything they want. Maybe (just guessing) they look down on a person having tons of alts and this is there way of preventing it. I mean they give you a free mule, and will probably give you more then enough inventory space, I mean what else can you ask for. There really is no reason to have more then 1 main character other than having more than 1 person play on the same account. If you want more characters that bad then simply pay the 3 dollars per alt. I mean nobody ever sit back and think about it from what SE wants, they knew people wanted alts but they raised the price of it, maybe they don't want people running around with tons of alts. Instead its just I want, so I should have or SE is stupid, which is a bias way of looking at it.

You can play all classes on 1 character with no restrictions, which is must better than any other MMO that basically forces you to create alts just to try new jobs. If you want more characters for RP purposes then simply pay the 3 dollars if it means that much too you. The only negative thing would be if inventory space forced you to have mules again which I don't see happening. At least this way reputation again will play a huge role in the community, because a person won't just simply create alts for the sake acting a fool. People will become familiar with the community rather quickly because most people will only have 1 main character.

I'm honestly not trying to defend SE (even if it appears that way) but I'm just pointing out facts.

1) All class on 1 character is far superior than any other MMO out there.

2) There will not be big racial differences this time around.

3) You get a free mule, so inventory space will not be a issue.

4) They raised the price of an extra character knowing full well that a lot of people wanted them for free. This to me screams that there is a reason behind this rather then them just wanting to make more money (because I doubt a lot of people will be buying alts anyway). If the reason was that they look down on alts, or they want players to feel connected to 1 main character, or whatever it might be, I think there is a reason beyond just wanting to make more money. Of course the more money they make the better though, I'm not saying that they don't want to make any money off it, I'm just saying theres probably another reason for it (whether you agree with it or not).



Edited, Jul 3rd 2010 10:26pm by HocusP

Edited, Jul 3rd 2010 10:27pm by HocusP
#16 Jul 03 2010 at 8:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Don't get me wrong. $3 is a pretty bad, but I think you guys are blowing it way out of the water.
#17 Jul 03 2010 at 8:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you can log onto both characters at once, totally justifiable. Otherwise, they should bring it down to 1 dollar and just eliminate the retainer nonsense. Unless there is some sort of benefit for keeping a server stable or some technical aspect, then I personally don't mind since I'm not going to be using more than 1 character.
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#18 Jul 03 2010 at 8:46 PM Rating: Good
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Have you ever thought that there is a reason behind a 3 dollar price per alt. I mean I'm sure SE heard what some of the player base wanted (free alts) but you don't have to give them everything they want. Maybe (just guessing) they look down on a person having tons of alts and this is there way of preventing it. I mean they give you a free mule, and will probably give you more then enough inventory space, I mean what else can you ask for. There really is no reason to have more then 1 main character other than having more than 1 person play on the same account. If you want more characters that bad then simply pay the 3 dollars per alt. I mean nobody ever sit back and think about it from what SE wants, they knew people wanted alts but they raised the price of it, maybe they don't want people running around with tons of alts. Instead its just I want, so I should have or SE is stupid, which is a bias way of looking at it.


Their personal thoughts and feelings on alts coloring their decisions on constructing a pricing plan, I can't even begin to describe how unprofessional that is. I'm still not even sure if your sincere or delivering one of the slickest back-handed insults I've heard in a while.


Quote:
You can play all classes on 1 character with no restrictions, which is must better than any other MMO that basically forces you to create alts just to try new jobs. If you want more characters for RP purposes then simply pay the 3 dollars if it means that much too you. The only negative thing would be if inventory space forced you to have mules again which I don't see happening. At least this way reputation again will play a huge role in the community, because a person won't just simply create alts for the sake acting a fool. People will become familiar with the community rather quickly because most people will only have 1 main character.


Reputation is also preserved in universal names for all the characters on the account, or account names being otherwise affiliated with character names. There's a couple MMOs that do this and tend to get the same 'reputation' community result, ex; Global Agenda.

I hear alot of reasons why allowing people to access all classes on a single race is good, but not why charging three flippin' dollars per alt is good. These things aren't related.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2010 10:51pm by Zemzelette
#19 Jul 03 2010 at 9:00 PM Rating: Good
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It's not hard to figure out how SE came about this price plan. They looked at FFXI, found most people played with 1 character and purchased other Content I.D.s for mules/storage. A small minority of FFXIer actually leveled a second race hence the option to buy a second character slot. They then looked at other MMO's price plan which is around 14.99 a month.

Bottom line is you have to pay $12.99 a month, not $9.99 or $14.99. If you so chose you can add an extra character /w retainer for $3/month; $2 for character, $1 for retainer. You can also just pay an extra $1 for an extra retainer if you chose. Just like everything else in the world, if you don't like the price plan then don't pay.
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#20 Jul 03 2010 at 9:01 PM Rating: Good
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pixepop wrote:
lol why were RMTs even brought up?


Quests plain and simple. If I had a nickel for every time I heard someone stating they created multiple mules for this very reason.

Utsusemi:Ichi, Tele:Altep, Tele:Dem, Tele:Holla, Tele:Yhoat, and numerous others scrolls that fetched a high price and some that still do. It wasn't just legit players that used this method of making gil.

In no way am I saying this is the only reason, though I'm quite confident in saying it's a contributing factor.
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#21 Jul 03 2010 at 9:13 PM Rating: Decent
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12.99 per month + 3.00 for extra char. isn't that bad, really, and the 1.00 for a retainer is actually okay too (atleast to me) since you can get it for less than the 3.00. In FFXI most of the extra charicters were used as mules for gear, crafting, and selling. This time around you can load up your retainer with items (I hope that its alot, and not something like 6 or 7 slots). I've also been reading that Chocobos will beable to carry gear so there is a bonus, also your back pack, and house. I think SE took storage into consideration when they set up this style of system. Even if you make an extra char. its 15.99 and you should also get a retainer for that char. too, like you get for your original.

Lets Look at other MMO prices per month.

15.99 a month (with extra char.) vs.

14.99 for Warhammer Online (where you can only be 1 job per char.)

14.99 for WoW (have no clue about its set up never played it but I belive its like Warhammer 1 class per char.)

14.99 for LotRo (basicaly the same as others said to be going to Free to play this fall never really played it.)

EQ2 14.99 (never played it)

FFXI 12.95 + 1.00 for extra char. (which you basically needed to store gear for multiple jobs).

(Some have 3 month & 6 month deals to lower the price per month but auto charge/ lock you into it.)

Seeing as how these other MMOs do not have the style of Job System FF XIV, and XI have, where you can be all jobs on 1 char. its easy to see why they don't charge for extra char. even though I am surprised some of them don't try to. If this game is going to have the storage space that I've been hearing about there would be no need for multiple char. Unless of course you want to play as each race, but in the end its more than likely you would end up loging on the same char. each day.
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#22 Jul 03 2010 at 9:25 PM Rating: Decent
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As someone's already said, the $3 is to prevent people from spamming the AH with Quest Scrolls (Drain went for **** near 150k back in the day. Utsu: Ichi 500k+ and so on and so forth)

but SE will probably also run a "Bonanza" of sorts there too, this COULD be their preventive measure from people having a full ammount of mules to have a higher % of winning than others. (I know a few people that have 15 mules, and only activate them during bonanzas)

[This is pure speculation on my part however]
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#23 Jul 03 2010 at 9:38 PM Rating: Good
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As someone's already said, the $3 is to prevent people from spamming the AH with Quest Scrolls (Drain went for **** near 150k back in the day. Utsu: Ichi 500k+ and so on and so forth)


That's completely contrary to economics. More people selling = lower cost. With less people selling and presumably the same amount of buyers, prices skyrocket.
#24 Jul 03 2010 at 9:38 PM Rating: Decent
EndlessJourney wrote:
I think it's quite funny that no matter what Square Enix does there are people on Alla who will try to make sense of it and argue that it is some how right. Not everything they do is right. I'm a huge fan, and I think almost everything they do is right and they are by far the best MMORPG developer, however there ARE things they do wrong. I read these threads about the poor PS3 users being delayed 6 months past PC released (and I'm a PC user myself) and people make these threads like "Hey, why's everyone complaining? It's no big deal! Score: Excellent". It's quite saddening.


I think it's quite funny that no matter what SE does, people find a reason to ***** and whine. If people just want to snivel and complain about each and every little detail, they can go hang out in =10 where that kind of ******** is par for the course. There are some people here (myself included) who don't want to see that kind of adolescent crybaby nonsense migrate over here.

The fact of the matter is, other MMOs offer free slots to make extra characters because they operate on a one character/one class kind of system. That's it. XI/XIV are not like that. With the exception of maxing crafting professions, you can do all things on one character.

And wasn't it the mountain of ponces here that argued that having free alts degraded the community because people could just alt hop when they got into trouble on their main?

It's not about trying to "make sense of"...it's about being grown up enough to not snivel and ***** about every stupid little thing that comes to mind. Like you and your loony-toon male Miqo'te crusade and your extended crybaby rant about SE's alpha selection procedures. You're not being intelligent or discerning when you whine and cry about every minor little detail that doesn't suit your liking...you're being a loser.

We don't need any more pre-emptive snivel threads. Half the front page is dominated by them. That's more than enough.
#25 Jul 03 2010 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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There is very few people I know who play alts simply for race sake (which would be the equivalent here). Most everyone makes an alt to play a different class, or for some utility purpose (holding gear for instance). So long as they keep the utility needs low for alts, I actually prefer it this way as it will be cheaper overall. I suspect for most the population it will likely be cheaper too.
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#26 Jul 03 2010 at 9:44 PM Rating: Default
Naeo wrote:
As someone's already said, the $3 is to prevent people from spamming the AH with Quest Scrolls (Drain went for **** near 150k back in the day. Utsu: Ichi 500k+ and so on and so forth)

but SE will probably also run a "Bonanza" of sorts there too, this COULD be their preventive measure from people having a full ammount of mules to have a higher % of winning than others. (I know a few people that have 15 mules, and only activate them during bonanzas)

[This is pure speculation on my part however]


Considering you don't learn spells from scrolls in XIV, I'd have to say that that has absolutely nothing to do with it.
#27 Jul 03 2010 at 9:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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@Aurelius

It's one thing to tell people "pick your battles", but that almost sounds like you want everyone to only say positive things. I know people have been moody lately and it doesn't make for the happiest forum browsing, but don't you think that's a bit impractical? Even for a non-MMO forum, that's asking alot :p

#28 Jul 03 2010 at 10:02 PM Rating: Default
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I hate playing WOW and not being able to keep my same character between different jobs. I Personally get attached to an avater: all the story quests ive been through, achievements, friends that know me by name and in game face. I truthfully don't care if i cant make a second character. There will probably be a race changer add-on sooner or later like there was in ffxi anyway.
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#30 Jul 03 2010 at 10:05 PM Rating: Decent
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The extra $3 fee doesnt bother me at all, i never had a 2nd char in ffxi and i probably wont roll one in ffxiv, obviously for people who like using different chars, yeah it kinda sux...but its only $3, its not earth shattering
#31 Jul 03 2010 at 10:17 PM Rating: Decent
Zemzelette wrote:

@Aurelius

It's one thing to tell people "pick your battles", but that almost sounds like you want everyone to only say positive things. I know people have been moody lately and it doesn't make for the happiest forum browsing, but don't you think that's a bit impractical? Even for a non-MMO forum, that's asking alot :p



I'm not saying everything needs to be positive and that criticism has no place, I'm just saying that the criticism is out of control right now. And in the context of where a lot of the people here have spent the last several years of their forum life, nitpicking and whining about every little detail is the norm and it gets awfully old. It doesn't take an intellectual giant to figure out what SE is trying to accomplish with their XIV pricing scheme and it's not worth complaining about. It is what it is, and the only thing worse than whining about it is people defending their need to whine about it.
#32 Jul 03 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Good
Almalexia wrote:
Quote:
One of my favorite things to do

One of my favorite things to do is make one powerful, effective character instead of fucking around with a bunch of half-baked disappointments.

You sound like you're afraid of success. You probably shouldn't play an MMO.


Yikes, harsh.

In all fairness, if someone hasn't played XI they wont really be in the same position as most of us to appreciate how one main is all you really need in an SE MMO.


Bottom line for me, $3 is pure greed, but I'm going to wait and see how the inventory system pans out before going for SE's jugular. that and even more charges for retainers makes me very uncomfortable. But again, I'll wait and see.
#33 Jul 03 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll wait, see & experience the game playing mechanics before passing any judgment on the extra slots that can be purchased. In the past game I had one main and three town mules. I want to personally see what the game designers had in mind with the single character design. Will there be enough bank space or whatnot from a single account is my big question? Of course if things don't pan out, I'll be cursing for their blood with the rest of everyone while I grudgingly hand over a few more bucks per month for another slot. :/
#34 Jul 03 2010 at 10:25 PM Rating: Good
rubina wrote:
I want to personally see what the game designers had in mind with the single character design.


I take it you haven't played XI? Most of us here can tell you that the single char system works great.
#35 Jul 03 2010 at 10:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I'm not saying everything needs to be positive and that criticism has no place, I'm just saying that the criticism is out of control right now. And in the context of where a lot of the people here have spent the last several years of their forum life, nitpicking and whining about every little detail is the norm and it gets awfully old.


Although I have some general idea what your talking about, I've been away for years.
If people really are that worn, though, I suppose I'll save my commiserating grousing for another time (and maybe place).
At least while our own forum is so tumultuous.


Quote:
Of course if things don't pan out, I'll be cursing for their blood with the rest of everyone while I grudgingly hand over a few more bucks per month for another slot. :/


Awww, don't say that. It's always so disheartening to hear people talk about being trapped, even in joking. There's so many options nowadays. I'm keeping an eye on SWTOR, Guildwars 2, and Rift myself.


Edited, Jul 4th 2010 12:40am by Zemzelette
#36 Jul 03 2010 at 11:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm sure there will still be quest rewards that will fetch a pretty penny on the AH or bazaars. but as i said, it was on speculation on my part. No one knows why exactly SE raised the character price. For all we know it could simply be they cut the character slots in half (16 -> 8) and wanted to profit a little more.

no one can say for sure. I for one could personally care less. I only want my one character, any other characters i had on XI were mules for gear / selling things in towns for the better profit.

With the addition of the mule accounts, all i'll need is my lalafell.

@Rubina - from what i've been told (hear-say. so take it at face value) you have more slots at the start of the game. Though that's simply bag space.

My question then is. with the token, is there a neat little satchel in this FF as well? will Mog Houses make a come back despite the lack of a need for job changes since we do that on the fly? if not, my guess is the chocobo-storage-thing that the dev.team has talked about will be our "storage/locker/mogsafe/whozidankit."

Edited, Jul 4th 2010 1:04am by Naeo
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#37 Jul 03 2010 at 11:07 PM Rating: Default
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One, with the ability for one character to play all classes, there really isn't need to have more than character. Two, they give us a free retainer for storage/economy purposes, we don't have any idea how much inventory is available between the main and retainer, so there might not be a need to have more than the two. In the end there may be, but we are very limited in any information at this point in time. For all we know the system could be very limited like it was in FFXI, with limited slots to sell our wares. ****, back in XI I used to keep about 5 characters active, 3 for the AH in Jueno, with 2 in Windhurst and Bastok for regional AH and gardening. This was needed, since one character had only so many AH slots/plant pots available to them, more so since I made the majority of my money from cooking (**** Hocus might remember me if he's the Hocuspocus from Caitsith, Onielvaan=Sylvanna.) I needed the Ah slots to move my product in decent fashion without having to check every few hours or so.

Now let's look into a system like WoW and Aion, both games I'm quite familiar with. Both locked into the one class/one character formula. I had leveled 4 characters to level cap for their active expansions, with a multitude of alts, Aion got 2 characters to 30 and 40 respectively before I got sick of it and uninstalled. You know what sucked about WoW, during my stint I had to raise up reputations for items and perks... on every serious toon I played. Though in the end I was **** self sufficient since I also capped out useful professions. But christ, I hated grinding rep, even as it got easier as the expansions rolled out. Certain items like recipes or weapons were only available at certain weapons. Anyone remember the Druid tanking mace from the Cenarion folk,it was **** near mandatory for any tanking bear. It required Exalted reputation with that faction; ****, getting into heroics required revered reputation before they lowered it down to honored. It was a pain in the ***. Something I would gladly do if every new character didn't require starting over from scratch. Crafting was a joke, but it wasn't too hard aside from collecting certain recipes, quite a few were world drops from random mobs, some from certain mobs, others from instances and raids, aside from the faction based ones.

Then there's Aion, like a hellish offspring of FFXI and WoW. It combined the bad things of both games. The one class per character rule was in effect. I don't remember any reps grinds but there was the pvp grind. Character's inventory was extremely limited both on the actual character and the bank/ah. The crafting system was pure evilness, though the work order system was cool till I had to spend 5 hours grinding one to get the recipe I needed to complete the master quest. Certain crafts required materials which should have been common but were rare as **** or required an obscene amount of materials (I'm looking at you handicraft, 70+ logs to make a bow...), some synths required the HQ of a previous synth to even attempt, so if you didn't get lucky on the ring synth and got a white quality ring you were out of money since the rings were only good to a vendor to recoup some of the costs. Your crafting level had no effect aside from removing the chance of failure and losing some mats, the +10 levels system of FFXI was not present here. Then there was the fact that part of one of the endgame armors sets required an item only obtainable through an item from a capped craft, HQ as well, that was at the mercy of the rng.

Now I went off topic with the Aion rant, but the WoW one stands. We may or may not have something similar to reputation in XIV, but if we do, why would I want to regrind it on another character? Different looks, that just it, its looks, a cosmetic thing. Professions? I', hoping the crafting system is similar to XI's, being a high level crafter was an accomplishment. If you were maxed out in XI you had perks, higher HQ rate depending on the recipe, bringing with it greater quantities and quality, both leading to usually making more money. I hope they keep the point system from XI, so deciding what you want to max out takes a conscious decision. Being able to be self sufficient should be a something that should cost you something since your possibly cutting off ties with the community around you. You need a potion, but aren't high enough in alchemy to make them? Have a friend who can make them do so or go buy some from someone one. SE is attempting to create an artificial living world (oxymoron I know, but true). SE wants you to make connections to the people around you. This is the first step in bring immersion to a game.

Now in the end, SE could be out for making more money, they are a company as well. But for all we know they could want you to focus on one character. We don't even know if extra characters are needed when it comes to selling and storing things, so you might not even need an extra character aside from what they provide us in the beginning. If the crafting system is similar to XI's having an extra character with a maxed profession could be a great boon, an advantage. If you really want the advantage, pay for it. I did in XI and if needed in XIV I will purchase extra character slots.

Edited, Jul 4th 2010 1:14am by OniElvaan
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#38 Jul 03 2010 at 11:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Okay enough is enough, I am sick and **** tired of you Aurelius. I have no idea why in the **** you like to harass me on this forum over and over along with a lot of other people. You make plenty of intelligent posts to cover it up and make it look like you're being a positive part of the community, but there are a lot of people on here including myself you follow around and harass and I am seriously sick of it.

I made a post, about the subject at hand, describing my feelings about how people in general take some issues here and was not rude nor pointing anyone out about it. I am sick and tired of you following me around and doing nothing but insulting what I say on this forum. You need to grow up and get a life and stop harassing people over the internet who are just trying to discuss a video game.

Enough is Enough, this is like some kind of cyber bully who's gone out of control and it needs to be stopped as people have pointed out in several threads before.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2010 10:11pm by EndlessJourney
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#39 Jul 03 2010 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
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@Endless/Aur - take it to PMs kids, no need to go horribly offtopic to yell at someone for being mean. You can just as easily report him / yell at him in private, not subject us to your arguments.

@OniElvaan - holy long winded post batman XD

in reference to your crafting post - I kinda hope they stick with their .1 based system of crafting, much like you do, but it needs to be tweaked, at 100(insertcrafthere) +3 you still have a chance of failing a level 1 synth. I'm hoping the luck in crafting is removed, and they make it into a mini-game of sorts, where your ability to play the mini game wins over your luck.

Though, i'm more inclined to see how SE lets us combine class abilities. thaumaturge or whatever it's called in the DoM has an ability called Punishing Barbs. coup that with the Rousing Provoke class (Marauder?) you've got a nice little tank that when he takes damage the enemy gets back some pain as well. Not to mention if we can gain access to their skills/spells. thaumaturge gets Absorb ACC and TP O.o not to shabby of abilities for any DD.
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#40 Jul 03 2010 at 11:25 PM Rating: Default
EndlessJourney wrote:
Okay enough is enough, I am sick and **** tired of you Aurelius. I have no idea why in the **** you like to harass me on this forum over and over along with a lot of other people. You make plenty of intelligent posts to cover it up and make it look like you're being a positive part of the community, but there are a lot of people on here including myself you follow around and harass and I am seriously sick of it.

I made a post, about the subject at hand, describing my feelings about how people in general take some issues here and was not rude nor pointing anyone out about it. I am sick and tired of you following me around and doing nothing but insulting what I say on this forum. You need to grow up and get a life and stop harassing people over the internet who are just trying to discuss a video game.

Enough is Enough, this is like some kind of cyber bully who's gone out of control and it needs to be stopped as people have pointed out in several threads before.


I don't "follow" anyone around, but I do have a rather lengthy memory. Your persecution complex is not my problem. If people have the right to **** up the entire forum with one whine thread after another, I have a right to point out that it isn't universally welcomed. Starting when the benchmark was released and exploding beyond reason with the information that came out at the same time as the release dates, this forum has turned into a wall of crybaby trash interspersed with a handful of lost souls trying to sort out PC hardware specs and an even smaller number of threads dedicated to discussing something that doesn't involve a kvetch or a mountain of ignorance.

=10 is a joke. The only people who don't think it's a joke are the ones who make it a joke. Some of us would like to see this forum persist with a higher standard when it comes to ******** and carrying on as so many of you are apt to do. So buck up and contribute without the whining. It's not necessary, it doesn't add any substance to the boards, and it just drives away potential new players who might want an objective view of SE and XIV without all the butthurt cynicism people developed in XI.
#41 Jul 03 2010 at 11:30 PM Rating: Default
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Naeo wrote:
@Endless/Aur - take it to PMs kids, no need to go horribly offtopic to yell at someone for being mean. You can just as easily report him / yell at him in private, not subject us to your arguments.


Sorry but this guy just keeps following me around harassing me when I try my hardest to ignore him and avoid him. I simply want to post here and have a good time and he acts like he's some forum police that has the authority to completely bash and insult and try to humiliate people at his will if he disagrees with them. If this forum is to be a friendly community like Pikko and some of the other admins have been stressing for so long, something needs to be done about him. Sorry for subjecting you to any kind of post, I'll not post about it anymore in this thread, I'm just frustrated and tired of being harassed over and over and over by the same person, when I'm not trying to be mean to anyone or anything.
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#42 Jul 03 2010 at 11:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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My one and only issue with charging 3 dollars per character is that it stands between a player and trying other races. Being able to freely try a new race is the standard for mmorpg's, so this sort of flies in the face of that.


Though personally, I stick to 1 character militantly, and I have no interest in non-human races. I also like that there will be less alts...they make the game feel more like a game, if that makes any sense. Takes you out of the experience, makes it feel less real. Instead of seeing other players as their character, you see them more as the player behind the scenes, controlling a fleet of alts.

But I do understand why one might be put off by the charge.

Edited, Jul 4th 2010 1:37am by Eske
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#43 Jul 03 2010 at 11:41 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I think it's rather smart on SE's part to charge extra for more characters. You only need one and is actually more beneficial with this armory system to level all of your classes on one character. Granted, I'd rather have them free as well as the retainers but it's a smart plan and I think is perfectly legitimate considering the monthly payment is only 12.99.

I still think it's funny that some of the most complaints come from the most dedicated players...like bears to honey and hookers to crack.
#44 Jul 03 2010 at 11:57 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
=10 is a joke. The only people who don't think it's a joke are the ones who make it a joke. Some of us would like to see this forum persist with a higher standard when it comes to ******** and carrying on as so many of you are apt to do.


Once this game goes live, I'm sorry to say that the XIV forum is probably going to become the same as =10

#45 Jul 03 2010 at 11:59 PM Rating: Decent
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@Endless - i'm not saying you shouldn't post, i'm just saying arguments will just lead to longer arguments in a thread. simply take it to PMs where you can reply / ignore at your leisure without the rest of us having to read the post at the start and see if it pertains to the topic or not :) that's all <3 i apologize if my words had offended you, as i meant none by it.

"Eske" wrote:
My one and only issue with charging 3 dollars per character is that it stands between a player and trying other races. Being able to freely try a new race is the standard for mmorpg's, so this sort of flies in the face of that.


Not really. They could simply take the longer, yet cheaper route, and level a race to 5-10, delete, make new race. rinse and repeat til they've found a race they prefer over the others.
But in the case of XI players who are looking at the races, seeing they're more balanced than their XI counterparts, will just pick a race they wish they'd have made their character (or stick with the race they are now because they like it better than the others) more time consuming, yes. but if you're **** bent on finding out what race you want AND have an issue with the 3$ charge, you can simply do it this way.

For instance: I'm a hume on XI, I regret not making a tarutaru for their cute look (the MP pool wouldn't hurt either since i'm a Bard.) so in XIV i'll be making a lalafell due to the races being more (|Even Matched|) i can level whatever with less of a burden for melee classes, and enjoy my cute character.

Edited, Jul 4th 2010 2:00am by Naeo
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#46 Jul 04 2010 at 12:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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I realize that this is a pretty close personal subject for people as it involves money for a new character, but for me (and while I had 3, none were mules, I only really used one), I look at a couple of things that make they way SE chose to do it in FFXI (and more than likely, FFXIV) totally worth it:
(these aren't in any order)
-roughly $13/month vs. the standard $15
-each character can play every class, no matter their race
-the feeling of bonding/loyalty/familiarity/accomplishment/whatever that you get from spending so much time developing your character
-reputation; I loved being recognized, and I loved being able to pick out other people; granted, you get this to a degree in any MMO, but never like FFXI (and hopefully FFXIV)

Again, these are what makes it worth it for me. I do sympathize with anyone who doesn't like this setup, but the only real consolation of sorts I can offer is that this was the way they did it in FFXI, so while we may not like it, we shouldn't really be surprised.


One other thing I wanted to add, and this is very much my personal opinion. I absolutely do not care if FFXIV is considered a WoW killer, a top MMO, or a success by the majority of review sites. FFXI is generally considered a joke by most people who have not played it for any length of time, and yet it had what, 4 expansions, and the game is still active after 7 or 8 years (or however long it's been). If FFXIV is at least as successful as FFXI, I will be thrilled. I honestly see it being more so because I think SE will have learned so much in the time that FFXI has been out, but still, even if it is considered a niche game, I'll happily jump in with that "niche" community for another bout of many long years of enjoyment.

Sorry for the rant; bring on the game!
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#47 Jul 04 2010 at 12:06 AM Rating: Good
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I do have one worry in the back of my head though. If sometime down the line they introduce a new race (which they say they might) I think that would be very manipulative on SE's part. Obviously everyone is going to want to try the new race out but nobody is going to want to delete their old character so most people are going to just pay for the extra $3. If this happens I would have no doubt in my mind they planned it all out in advance purposefully not releasing a new race at launch so they could snare everyone into paying extra.
#48 Jul 04 2010 at 12:10 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't know. yeah they may release a new race, but to stoop so low as to plan this and release it just for the added 3 bucks from every person, even that's a little low. SE is a staple gaming company, everyone knows their name, and the fact that most of their games involve amazing storylines. they shouldn't need to use underhanded gimmicks like this just to make a few thousand bucks.

maybe i'm just naive. we as a consumer will never find out if they planned it or not anyway.
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#49 Jul 04 2010 at 12:12 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
One other thing I wanted to add, and this is very much my personal opinion. I absolutely do not care if FFXIV is considered a WoW killer, a top MMO, or a success by the majority of review sites. FFXI is generally considered a joke by most people who have not played it for any length of time, and yet it had what, 4 expansions, and the game is still active after 7 or 8 years (or however long it's been). If FFXIV is at least as successful as FFXI, I will be thrilled. I honestly see it being more so because I think SE will have learned so much in the time that FFXI has been out, but still, even if it is considered a niche game, I'll happily jump in with that "niche" community for another bout of many long years of enjoyment.


Well said.

As long as XIV is popular enough that we don't have to spend hours LFP (for whatever event/exping), and there's plenty of people around to do things with, I'll be happy.

Now... SE may see things differently, but as I'm not a shareholder, IDGAF Smiley: wink
#50 Jul 04 2010 at 12:14 AM Rating: Decent
Yogtheterrible wrote:
I do have one worry in the back of my head though. If sometime down the line they introduce a new race (which they say they might) I think that would be very manipulative on SE's part. Obviously everyone is going to want to try the new race out but nobody is going to want to delete their old character so most people are going to just pay for the extra $3. If this happens I would have no doubt in my mind they planned it all out in advance purposefully not releasing a new race at launch so they could snare everyone into paying extra.


If SE were to release a new race later on down the line, I would predict that either it will be something you have to pay to unlock access to for your account and/or you will have to pay to race change your main character to the new race. Blizzard charges something like $35 for a race chance in WoW and people pay it. It really is a cash cow for them, and I'm sure SE is aware of it. Vanity always comes with a steep price.
#51 Jul 04 2010 at 12:21 AM Rating: Good
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Yogtheterrible wrote:
I do have one worry in the back of my head though. If sometime down the line they introduce a new race (which they say they might) I think that would be very manipulative on SE's part. Obviously everyone is going to want to try the new race out but nobody is going to want to delete their old character so most people are going to just pay for the extra $3. If this happens I would have no doubt in my mind they planned it all out in advance purposefully not releasing a new race at launch so they could snare everyone into paying extra.


If SE were to release a new race later on down the line, I would predict that either it will be something you have to pay to unlock access to for your account and/or you will have to pay to race change your main character to the new race. Blizzard charges something like $35 for a race chance in WoW and people pay it. It really is a cash cow for them, and I'm sure SE is aware of it. Vanity always comes with a steep price.



I dunno. SE has been pretty straightforward about not doing RMT type sales for in game things. I could dredge up an interview or two, but we've all read them.

Then again.... this whole $3 fee and the $1 for retainers is a step in that direction... so who knows.
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