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FFXIV: Already unable to compete with years old competitionFollow

#102 Jul 06 2010 at 5:39 PM Rating: Good
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xthunderblazex wrote:
If they were your friends, they would've played on your server.

You can level all crafts to max on one character this time around.

No point in playing a different race, want to change your appearance? dat swap.


Anything else?

Edited, Jul 6th 2010 5:32pm by xthunderblazex


1) Maybe they didn't know you played when they created their character. Maybe you met someone after you and they both started and found out the two of you play on different servers.

2) Has been discounted; do you have proof to back up this claim?

3) PS3 players can't .dat swap. Furthermore, that only changes the appearance on YOUR end, not everyone else's. Your race may also affect NPC reactions. Furthermore, it's not a matter of "dat swap"; FFXI had a "not technically acceptable" program that did the hard work for you (by tricking the game into thinking you were another race on the client side) but actually switching all the needed .dat files is a ******* of work, and any given patch/update will cause you to do more work.

I personally will only be playing one character, but you seem to be going out of your way to insist that no one play any other characters. Even SE said (regarding FFXI) that they were surprised that more players didn't level up more than one character.

And even with all this aside, "Well, you shouldn't have to do that anyway" is not a valid reason to back up a price, whether it's true or not.
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#103 Jul 06 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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From what I know of FFXI and the upcoming FFXIV, I don't see the "$3 per extra character" deal being anything to worry about. You no longer need another character for a mule, and Retainers are only a dollar and do more than a mule (from FFXI).

I see this being a personal preference issue. I totally understand the "I wanna try a new race" position, but that's a matter of personal interest, not need. I could see this being an issue if there were no Retainers though. Maybe SE wants to control the number of created characters to lower server load and storage? Who knows.
#104 Jul 06 2010 at 9:07 PM Rating: Good
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Just to pose a question, would people be ok with a $15/mo. fee and $1 per extra character? $15 per month is more typical for MMOs, and those MMOs force you to use mules to try different classes.

If you have 2 characters, that equals the $13/$3 scenario. How many people would honestly play more than 2 characters? Remember that as far as we know gear and gardening mules will not be needed like in FFXI.

SE has stated the majority of FFXI players had only one non-level-1 character (aka non mules). If anything, FFXIV will still be among the cheapest subscription MMOs.
#105 Jul 07 2010 at 8:09 AM Rating: Decent
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As has been stated many times before, other MMOs let you create multiple characters because depending on what you want to do and how you want to play, you <i>need</i> to make more characters. FFXIV will let you play and do everything the way you want on one character, the only differences between characters being 99% cosmetic. I do understand, however, that certain people do want to have an array of different characters on hand for various reasons.

What bothers me, though, is that people are upset about not being able to have multiple characters for free right from the get-go. What possible reason could you have for wanting, say, four characters before you even start playing? I don't think you can argue that you'll be missing out on any part of the game experience with only one or two. And if having those extra characters isn't worth the extra money to you, are they really worth having at all? It is something that adds value to the game for you personally and is not a fundamental part of the gaming experience, so you shouldn't assume that you should be entitled to it without paying. As for how much that added experience should cost, I'd feel $1 is more reasonable than $3, but then it makes more sense to be upset about the cost being too high rather than there being a cost at all.
#106 Jul 07 2010 at 8:09 AM Rating: Decent
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As has been stated many times before, other MMOs let you create multiple characters because depending on what you want to do and how you want to play, you <i>need</i> to make more characters. FFXIV will let you play and do everything the way you want on one character, the only differences between characters being 99% cosmetic. I do understand, however, that certain people do want to have an array of different characters on hand for various reasons.

What bothers me, though, is that people are upset about not being able to have multiple characters for free right from the get-go. What possible reason could you have for wanting, say, four characters before you even start playing? I don't think you can argue that you'll be missing out on any part of the game experience with only one or two. And if having those extra characters isn't worth the extra money to you, are they really worth having at all? It is something that adds value to the game for you personally and is not a fundamental part of the gaming experience, so you shouldn't assume that you should be entitled to it without paying. As for how much that added experience should cost, I'd feel $1 is more reasonable than $3, but then it makes more sense to be upset about the cost being too high rather than there being a cost at all.
#107 Jul 07 2010 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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It'd be creative—and neat—if you could declare your character a retainer from the beginning and as a result you get a special avatar: like a moogle.

Otherwise, I feel dirty making a character exist simply for items. It's like some perverse way of online human trafficking or something.
#108 Jul 07 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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There is now some system to allow you to have a bazaar open while you are not logged on?

Some strategy to reduce server load no doubt. May eliminate the need for mules for AH spaces.

Don't know how far they will go to improve the over-all storage space though. The gobbie-bag quests were very important to make certain items valuable. Maybe they will once again incentivise teh security toekn with additional space. Or is the token simply required now?
#109 Jul 07 2010 at 5:39 PM Rating: Good
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Here are my reasons for having multiple characters.

1.) I am addicted to creating characters and seeing what combinations I can come up with.
2.) at least on WoW I had characters I played with on my own, a character that I played with one sister, and a character that I played with two. To do this with Final fantasy you have to pick different jobs, and probably disciplines in xiv.


I have been playing WoW for over a year and I love Final fantasy, it is easy, and you get 10 characters per realm up to 5 realms. So Yes you can pay for race change, but most people only do that if they have maxed a toon up and don't want to level the other race. So in many ways WoW is more cost effective for altoholics like me.

I know some of you would hate that, but for a casual gamer like me I find creating characters as much fun as playing the actual game.
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#110 Jul 11 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I could not agree more with you, nailed it right on the head. Why are people ******** already anyway? the fn game hasn't even come out, this is quite early, probably a good taste of things to come. This is why I'm glad I have to wait til March, because the big ********* with the all the bugs and maintenaces going on is something id rather let cool down over the months.

In other words, if you don't like the way a COMPANY runs its business, why the f*ck bother paying for their goods and services. Simple as this, when se went 3-d authen pay, my cards would not work, i said f*ck you se and now i don't pay for their goods and services...simple as that..

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#111 Jul 11 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Here are my reasons for having multiple characters.

1.) I am addicted to creating characters and seeing what combinations I can come up with.
2.) at least on WoW I had characters I played with on my own, a character that I played with one sister, and a character that I played with two. To do this with Final fantasy you have to pick different jobs, and probably disciplines in xiv.


I have been playing WoW for over a year and I love Final fantasy, it is easy, and you get 10 characters per realm up to 5 realms. So Yes you can pay for race change, but most people only do that if they have maxed a toon up and don't want to level the other race. So in many ways WoW is more cost effective for altoholics like me.

I know some of you would hate that, but for a casual gamer like me I find creating characters as much fun as playing the actual game.


1.) not too sure what you mean here...what combinations? in any case, you can do all the class combinations on one..

2.) Slightly confused again, you answered yourself, unless "having to switch" jobs/disciplines is somehow the bad thing, there are many classes, you can easily have different ones set aside for certain people

3.) I think you need to try the game first WoW REQUIRES being an altoholic if you want to not be bored out of your mind sitting on your main doing nothing, XI did not, and I hope XIV does not either, in XI I switched and lv'd new jobs constantly which is essentially the same thing just with one character. Also people didn't roll new races because they were bored of their old race usually, but rather...because they were just BORED.

4.) Again, often times in games like WoW, creating a new character is the ONLY way to see something different, or to change the gameplay slightly, essentially "playing the game" is running raids...over and over again. While XI had some repeatable content, I feel it had a lot more stuff to do, and fantastic adventures to go even beyond the lv cap, the adventure didn't end, this makes this much less necessary.

Now I understand the drive to make characters, its fun especially with a good creator, but the final fantasy community is built differently, due to everything being done on one character the community becomes more tight knit, because you recognize most of the people, whatever level range they are or were, SE wants to continue this. Its much easier to find/have friends in XI then it was in any other mmo, and the lack of alting made it so they never suddenly dissapeared because they "got bored of their main", they decide to lv a new job you can see them doing it and..hey! level your own new job with them.

I really don't think SE is trying to bend over backwards to appeal to *everyone*, as that dilludes the creators concepts and eventually dumbs down a game (wow is a prime example of that gone overboard), this isn't an "alt game" your chosen avatar is very important, rather than having several forgettable characters. It's one of the things that kept XI so unique from the rest of the mmo's, and its built around this.

edit: in all honesty though, I'm not sure why its a full $3 for new characters this time, seems too steep, while they discourage multiple player characters it feels like they are being too pushy about it with a price like that.

Edited, Jul 11th 2010 2:39pm by Silverwyrm

Edited, Jul 11th 2010 2:39pm by Silverwyrm
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#112 Jul 11 2010 at 5:24 PM Rating: Default
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I thought this was all really simple, if you don't want to pay $3 for a mule, you don't have to. If somebody wants to spend extra $$ on 5 mules, they can.

People don't want to think about it, but SE is a business. They are in business to make as much money for thier owners/shareholders as possible. If you owned a pie shop and somebody told you people would buy just as many pies at $2 more, wouldn't you raise the price?
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#113 Jul 11 2010 at 6:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I wonder how they are going to handle this honestly. There is a Physical Level (controls HP/MP/stats) and there is a Class level (skills/spells/traits). If a miner has to go out into the field and mine, obviously he would have to fight stuff that aggros. So if you fight a monster, your Physical level takes over? There will be classless equipment for this type of purpose? Just makes me curious.

I guess they could limit trade class level to force people to focus on one thing. Physical level would dictate where you are going to mine vs monster level. Hmm. They could go either way.
#114 Jul 12 2010 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
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1. Combinations, as in look, as in the differences and the unique look of each character.
2. Job change, let's say playing with my sister I wanted to be a White mage to go with her Red mage, to play on my own, I would have to pick another job on that character. In WoW, if I want to have a Priest with my sister, and play a Priest on my own I can have two characters with the same job and not worry about leveling ahead of her. (Yes I know the changes in Final Fantasy xi helped that out, but by the time that came out it was too late, and everyone I had played with had stopped playing.)

I'm not saying I like WoW better than Final Fantasy, but there are many reasons people make new characters. In fact when I started WoW, I played with my sister on one relm with a character I really didn't want to play but I was having trouble getting the expansions to load correctly. Once it did we started with the Race and job we were planning on playing. My Nephew at the time, convinced me to try a different job on another relm, my sister decided to join me on that one. Amazingly it was that character that became my main, in Final Fantasy that probably would not have happened. I absolutely know it wouldn't because it didn't. I personally find the 3 dollars a bit steep, I didn't mind the 1 dollar with FFXI.

I also had one other reason for alts. I allow my minor children to create characters on my account so they can play. They don't play often, I can't justify the cost to buy a game for them when they need to think about school and education, but to play on an occassional basis I can pay 1 dollar a month.
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#115 Jul 12 2010 at 4:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Playing with different jobs with different people... that sounds a lot like my experiences with FFXI and not with my WoW experiences. My wow character was the only class (warrior) I ever played and became friends with a lot of people. With my FFXI character I made a lot of friends while I leveled different jobs.

With FFXI I just loved leveling new jobs, with WoW I haven't tried another class that isn't warrior.
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#116 Jul 12 2010 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent
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ashikenshin wrote:
Playing with different jobs with different people... that sounds a lot like my experiences with FFXI and not with my WoW experiences. My wow character was the only class (warrior) I ever played and became friends with a lot of people. With my FFXI character I made a lot of friends while I leveled different jobs.

With FFXI I just loved leveling new jobs, with WoW I haven't tried another class that isn't warrior.


I don't know if you have quit WoW, but if you haven't, I would advise trying some other classes. I know you lose the attachment to the character, but it's fun to give the game a shot through a new perspective; say a Warlock or a Rogue or even a Druid.

Honestly, I got so burned out on WoW that the only way to keep it interesting as long as I did was to level multiple characters.

Edited, Jul 13th 2010 12:10am by Mikhalia
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#117 Jul 13 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Default
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Something else that annoys me about this decision is that not only am I stuck with one character, but it makes it extremely unlikely that they'll ever add new races.

Think about it, if they add new races, you'll either have to delete your character and start over with that new race, pay for a race change (if they ever even make this an option, you will undoubtedly have to pay for it) or pay for a new character slot to make a new character when everyone claims that the focus is on a single character mmo.

It's a shame because I was really hoping to see some manqo'te and highlander chicks someday.
#118 Jul 13 2010 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Mykha wrote:
Something else that annoys me about this decision is that not only am I stuck with one character, but it makes it extremely unlikely that they'll ever add new races.

Think about it, if they add new races, you'll either have to delete your character and start over with that new race, pay for a race change (if they ever even make this an option, you will undoubtedly have to pay for it) or pay for a new character slot to make a new character when everyone claims that the focus is on a single character mmo.

It's a shame because I was really hoping to see some manqo'te and highlander chicks someday.


Why would you start over? Just switch to a different class...

I hated in Lord of the Rings online where people in the guilds/(linkshells) had 5 characters (1 character = 1 class) each with different names, so you had to remember who was who, and people had to log out and switch characters all the time to do this and that. Also it created extreme boredom because you had to do the starter quests/find flight routes etc. again and again, it was really a grind.

Stuff like that really kills all joy in a game.
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#119 Jul 13 2010 at 4:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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I admit I'm pretty bummed about the $3 fee and not because I wanted mules, but because I'd been planning on making 2 characters of different races for two different playing styles. Sure I can be everything, but I can't just up and change my race. I guess I'll have to see how much I play before I decide. Now I just have to decide which of the two characters I was going to make I should create first...
#120 Jul 13 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Good
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I've always disliked everyone having multiple characters. It just didn't seem real. :O I honestly don't believe paying for the extra slots will be a problem. The only downside I can see to it is threeeee dollars. And I'm sure there's more to it than Square being greedy.

When a new race is released, not having 20 freakin' character slots might level out the number of people who go immediately play it. I don't want to see EVERYONE suddenly turn into a Moogle at once!
#121 Jul 14 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Wow.. it's hurting my brain to read a bunch of the complaints in this thread. I can't understand the people who are complaining about FFXIV's pricing model.

a) This is FFXIV, not another MMO. Square can do whatever they want. Why all the comparisons to other games? If you don't like it, play something else. I, for one, am absolutely happy they are doing exactly what they want because I enjoy their style.

b) You can play any class rather than be locked into 1 class per character, meaning that you can completely immerse yourself in that one character. It's the very concept behind the game. It's why many people loved FFXI, and exactly what set it apart from the rest. Again, Square's style with this game, if you don't like it and want multiple characters, go find another game (or pay extra).

c) The game is going to be epic and deep. The emphasis will be on exploring the story, the world, and the environment. Don't you lose a bit of the experience the second time around? My god, playing multiple characters in FFXI and doing the same choco quest, the same level cap quests, the same CoP missions, etc. etc., is horrific. Wouldn't SE want us to avoid that? Yes, and it's by design! Hopefully the content will be so deep and the endgame will provide so much to do that exploring it all with 1 character will be the most meaningful/enjoyable experience. Square's Style!

d) Tieing in with the last comment. Unless you're unable to leave your couch and pc for whatever reason, who honestly has the time to finish the game with multiple characters (given the amount of content). I know some ppl will be annoyed I make this comment, but seriously get a job, a gf/bf, a spouse, a sport, a book, a sewing machine, or something. ****.

e) The cost without any extra characters will be lower than most other MMO's out there, but it won't limit the classes you can play. Hurray for all the 1 character people!

f) The cost WITH a second character will only be 1$ more than most other MMO's out there. That's not bad at all, especially since it seems like they're addressing the storage amounts; only the free mule will be needed most likely.

Edited, Jul 14th 2010 4:26am by kabochan
#122 Jul 14 2010 at 2:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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A more positive way to look at the cost is that if you just like, packed one home lunch once a month, that'd be at least 3 dollars savings right there for an extra char. Since I'm Mrs Bento, I should probably stop complaining about it.
#123 Jul 14 2010 at 2:35 AM Rating: Good
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kabochan wrote:
b) You can play any class rather than be locked into 1 class per character, meaning that you can completely immerse yourself in that one character. It's the very concept behind the game. It's why many people loved FFXI, and exactly what set it apart from the rest. Again, Square's style with this game, if you don't like it and want multiple characters, go find another game (or pay extra).

c) The game is going to be epic and deep. The emphasis will be on exploring the story, the world, and the environment. Don't you lose a bit of the experience the second time around? My god, playing multiple characters in FFXI and doing the same choco quest, the same level cap quests, the same CoP missions, etc. etc., is horrific. Wouldn't SE want us to avoid that? Yes, and it's by design! Hopefully the content will be so deep and the endgame will provide so much to do that exploring it all with 1 character will be the most meaningful/enjoyable experience. Square's Style!

d) Tieing in with the last comment. Unless you're unable to leave your couch and pc for whatever reason, who honestly has the time to finish the game with multiple characters (given the amount of content). I know some ppl will be annoyed I make this comment, but seriously get a job, a gf/bf, a spouse, a sport, a book, a sewing machine, or something. ****.


For the record, and I'm not arguing for or against anything you just said, I'm just throwing this out there:

FFXI charged $12.95 + $1.00 for extra characters. Like XIV, you could do everything on one character and really only needed more for storage purposes.

However, that didn't stop SE themselves from commenting that they were surprised that more people didn't level up more than one character; the concept that people would have one and only one character was one that they did -not- anticipate; rather their hope was that players would level 2-3 characters.

Again, not arguing for or against anything you're saying; just pointing out that in the case of XI, what we assumed was only logical (sticking to one character) came as a surprise to SE.
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#124 Jul 14 2010 at 2:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia wrote:
However, that didn't stop SE themselves from commenting that they were surprised that more people didn't level up more than one character; the concept that people would have one and only one character was one that they did -not- anticipate; rather their hope was that players would level 2-3 characters.

Is that right? I suppose with extra characters only costing $1 each, they must have been thinking more along those lines.

I'm sure you'd agree that whatever lessons SE has taken from FFXI, by raising the extra character cost to $3 they are clearly not trying to encourage people in that same direction with FFXIV.
#125 Jul 14 2010 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent
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From a business standpoint it's quite genius actually. They could charge $5 per extra character and there are still people out there that would pay it. No matter how awesome you think the game is or how much fun you're having playing it, in the end it's still a game created by a company trying to make money. That's their sole purpose for even creating said game; To think otherwise is a bit naive.

Every MMO does it; albeit in different ways. WoW is making a fortune on server/class changes, and those stupid mystical flying horses. So really, it's just a matter of picking your poison.
#126 Jul 15 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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Probably the $3 fee serves a number of purposes.

Including:
*Making RMT a tad less profitable
*Preserving names that people want a bit longer (the surname system is sure to help on this count)
*Reducing the amount of character information that needs to be saved/stored
*Making extra money (questionable)

I'd guess they will be actualy be breaking even, considering that it will deter some, but not all, from going crazy with the alts.
#127 Jul 15 2010 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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With the monthly fee being so low i feel like im really getting a second character for $1.
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#128 Jul 15 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
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I played FFXI for over two years, then switched to LOTRO when it came out. I can honestly say, having one character that is able to change jobs is SO much nicer than having to level 4 or 5 different characters. It was nice not having to re-do my level caps over and over again, let alone taking on Maat! I for one am glad FFXIV has stuck with the one main character format.

On the alternate player complaint... I don't hear anyone complaining about the $12.99 to have ONE playable character, why is $3.00 so expensive? $3.00 is a huge discount to the original $12.99 to have an alternate, and completely playable character.

Edited, Jul 16th 2010 6:15am by Lorielll
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#129 Jul 15 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
"I hear alot of reasons why allowing people to access all classes on a single race is good, but not why charging three flippin' dollars per alt is good. These things aren't related."

"Integrity." SE takes a lot of pride in their games, as well as their fan base. So much, I would often look back from the current game i'm playing at the moment and then reflect "Wow, why cant anyone else get it right like SE does?" Their concepts definitely "punish" you for failure, but the rewards are always worth it, and then discussed. My theory to your above question would have to be based on RMT's ruining the economy of every MMO created. It ruins the playing field, drives auction house prices through the roof, and simply makes baby kupos cry. I perceive a lot of people constantly complaining on how SE does absolutely nothing about RMT's, but i view this as a positive hinderance to their activities by making it "much" easier to monitor the culprits." This is perhaps one of the one few times I could empathize to a price hike for additional classes/jobs. Does it suck? Highly, and i'm a toonaholic. But as for "bot" program runners, its a devastating blow to their gil intake.
#130 Jul 21 2010 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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Ok I can see how some would have issues with paying for alts/mules and others who could care less. I have mixed feelings about it. On one side with FFXI you would level one character and accomplish so many things with that one character being able to switch to whatever class/job you wanted to play which to me made the character mean alot more to the person playing it. Also other MMO's like World of Warcraft which I have 6 Characters at max level I have no attachement to any of them and I don't feel like a part of the community like I did on FFXI. On WoW there is way to much alt hopping you never know who is who for the most part on FFXI you saw the same people all the time which made it feel like a tighter community to me. Now for the other side I like playing as different characters cause that's just how I am but I also don't need the option to make 40-50 alts for free I would have been happy if they said you can create say up to 2 alts for free more then that cost $$$ as for the retainer Idea depending how they work I could see the point in them if I could place a retainer in each starter nation with bazaars up in each place to make money then hey easier way to make some gil at the expense of my pockets. I like the Idea of the retainers. I remember leaving my PC or PS2 on while I slept and went to work just to keep the bazaar up. Having the option to have a bazaar up when I'm offline I think is a great Idea minus I'm curious if they will even have an Auction House if people have bazaars up all the time. That's another issue for another thread.

Anyways I can see why people that enjoy playing more characters don't want to shell out the extra cash but with the strong community that FFXI has been known for I can see the reason why they went this route even though it sucks in some aspects overall I feel that it is the right decision on SE's part.
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#131 Jul 26 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
On WoW there is way to much alt hopping you never know who is who for the most part on FFXI you saw the same people all the time which made it feel like a tighter community to me.


This is a major reason as to why I love the FFXI community, and soon the FFXIV community. You quickly learn who the great players are, and who shouldve never left the Dunes. The world is very intimate so far as character relationships and the aspects of working hard to accomplish a set common goal. I can empathize on not having the freedom to make as many characters as I would wish, for I am a characterholic, but if it aids in lessening the RMT's and promoting a better in game economy, then sign me up. Chances are, my guess is many people will end up having two main characters with two mules for selling purposes. Hopefully the Auction house will also remain, for I have seen the horrors of not having one: /emote Points at Lineage Game
#132 Jul 26 2010 at 3:49 PM Rating: Good
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Aye, that's a good way of looking at it... but ultimately, I do like the fact that the additional Xter costs $3.00 not only as a way to deter RMT but also to nudge people into really developing their main xter.

First, I must say I like the retainer option... and once we can confirm what the "storage" options are on FFXIV, I think it greater reduces the urge to have several chacaters on the game.

Edited, Jul 26th 2010 9:49pm by LeoTarvion
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This is my future FFXIV Character and this is his theme...at least that's the tentative plan. Yep. (Concept Art of Rasler by the legendary Akihiko Yoshida) I asked for the Qiqirn to be added in FFXIV since October 2009 and we now have them! Yessss!



#133 Jul 26 2010 at 8:37 PM Rating: Good
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239 posts
ImmT wrote:
With the monthly fee being so low i feel like im really getting a second character for $1.


I thought FFIV was going to be $14.99 like other MMOs, I'm THRILLED with the $12.99 price. If people feel so strongly about a $3/mo expenditure, than I'm going to CELEBRATE a $2/mo savings!

Most people say the community is FFXI's best feature, and this will only make it better.

Your one character is going to mean more to you than before, your going to really agonize over what race, and how you look, and in this way it will be a more meaningful expression of yourself. Other characters are going to be other people in a more genuine way than is possible on most other MMOs.

The MMO culture isn't acclimated to this being forced to choose, and it's easy to focus on the freedoms they're "taking away." But instead try to understand what they are trying to give us; they are exerting their control over the world environment to make it a living, breathing place for us with real communities.

When people say the best thing about an MMO is it's community (as happen with FFXI) you can't say the creators had NOTHING to do with that and take the credit form them! It's not easy to build a world and a game that fosters and rewards such a thing!
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