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The Elephant in the RoomFollow

#1 Jul 03 2010 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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PS3 or to put it in better terms Japanese PS3 users are the "Elephant in the Room"

What nobody has mentioned yet is that the majority of Japanese players are not big PC users and will be playing on the PS3.

And this is why I gotta believe Japanese console players are extremely unhappy about the 6 months delay and I am sure Square has, is and will continue to get an earful from them.

It is because of this I think (I would be willing to bet on it) you will see Square release the Japanese PS3 version very soon after the PC release and way before the U.S. PS3 players get theirs in March.
#2 Jul 03 2010 at 9:21 PM Rating: Decent
You think they'd release the same platform, but at different times? You're dreaming trolling.

And yes, that the JP community is mostly on PS3 has been mentioned countless times here.
#3 Jul 03 2010 at 9:24 PM Rating: Good
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I know that most of the JP FFXI players were on PS2, but This site makes it sound like the JP players aren't going to have a major time adapting to XIV on PC.
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#4 Jul 03 2010 at 9:25 PM Rating: Good
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I didnt know that the JP community played mostly on PS3, its gonna be weird having the US players (PC users atleast) start before the JP users. I'm so used to the early days of FFXI when I looked up to all the JP plaers gear wise. Its gonna be strange to have the rolls reversed.
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#5 Jul 03 2010 at 9:26 PM Rating: Good
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If they were in a position to release the Japanese version soon, why would they have pushed it back in the first place?
#6 Jul 03 2010 at 9:28 PM Rating: Default
Screenshot


Because butthurt PS3 players deserve no less.
#7 Jul 03 2010 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I know that most of the JP FFXI players were on PS2, but This site makes it sound like the JP players aren't going to have a major time adapting to XIV on PC.


That site you linked is for the Japanese Benchmark and all of those numbers are their benchmark scores. Did you notice how low all of those scores were?


Quote:
I didnt know that the JP community played mostly on PS3, its gonna be weird having the US players (PC users atleast) start before the JP users. I'm so used to the early days of FFXI when I looked up to all the JP plaers gear wise. Its gonna be strange to have the rolls reversed.


Yes Japanese players are huge console gamers not so much on the PC side which is why when FFXIV is released I would be willing to bet English speaking players will out number Japanese players by at least 2-1


Edited, Jul 3rd 2010 8:34pm by ThiefX
#8 Jul 03 2010 at 9:32 PM Rating: Good
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My thoughts are that they were shooting for December for both platforms, and something happened (we can all theorize as to what but we'll probably never know for sure) that made them move PC up three months, rush it, and push PS3 back 3 months so that they could focus all their effort on the PC release and not worry about PS3 till October.

Honestly, I think it's dumb and hurts the game overall to rush one platform -and- ignore another. People can guess "maybe it was technical difficulties" or "Maybe they're trying to get it on the shelves before anyone else"... I'd love to know what is so **** important that they need to neglect half their players and rush a product to the other half.

I guess we'll never know though.
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#9 Jul 03 2010 at 9:38 PM Rating: Default
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My thoughts are that they were shooting for December for both platforms, and something happened (we can all theorize as to what but we'll probably never know for sure) that made them move PC up three months, rush it, and push PS3 back 3 months so that they could focus all their effort on the PC release and not worry about PS3 till October.

Honestly, I think it's dumb and hurts the game overall to rush one platform -and- ignore another. People can guess "maybe it was technical difficulties" or "Maybe they're trying to get it on the shelves before anyone else"... I'd love to know what is so **** important that they need to neglect half their players and rush a product to the other half.

I guess we'll never know though.


I think you are right.

I honestly believe they had every intention of releasing both versions at the same time and I think the "thing" that happened to make them push the PC version is WOW. Square will never admit that though.
#10 Jul 03 2010 at 9:51 PM Rating: Default
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Why do people keep saying that the pc version is being rushed out, have you ever thought that maybe the pc version is just ready and the ps3 version isn't...whats the point holding the pc version back and waiting for the ps3 version, if the pc version is ready, then by all means release it, no point in waiting.
#11 Jul 03 2010 at 10:08 PM Rating: Decent
AckersFury wrote:
Why do people keep saying that the pc version is being rushed out, have you ever thought that maybe the pc version is just ready and the ps3 version isn't...whats the point holding the pc version back and waiting for the ps3 version, if the pc version is ready, then by all means release it, no point in waiting.


Considering the beta for the game hasn't started yet, they're rushing it. Two months isn't enough time to gather feedback and make alterations to the game. As some have put it, they're pushing the beta process into the live release. There are strong hints that SE Is positioning themselves to better respond to the feedback of its players throughout the lifespan of the game, but based on their history it still leaves me feeling a little uneasy about the whole thing.
#12 Jul 03 2010 at 11:04 PM Rating: Decent
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well i cant talk about the beta, so moving on

maybe the dev's are happy with the way the game is and they dont need as much time as they thought they were gonna need for the beta, there wasnt actually that much wrong with the alpha except it wasnt optimized very well, but as you can see from the E3 footage the game has come along way since alpha, seems to me like there happy with the pc version and feel it'll be ready for september..ps3 on the otherhand obviously needs more work, the ps3 is a hard console to code for, and mmo type games arent really designed to run on console hardware, so the ps3 version being delayed isnt really that surprising....look how the ffxi port turned out on the xbox lol, if the pc version wasnt ready, SE would delay it, and they still might, anything can change between now and september

its funny, if the pc version had of been delayed until march same as the ps3 version everyone would be up in arms about it, now the game is actually being released in september which people should be happy about, people are moaning and slating se saying there rushing it...SE cant win
#13 Jul 03 2010 at 11:25 PM Rating: Decent
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@Ackers - in most of the interviews, they've mentioned issues in the alpha being brought to light again and again, rushing things will just make more bugs appear. though it could be very true that perhaps the issues have been resolved and their world is a happy moderately bug free world.

...but then i'd want a dress and a crown so i could be the queen of England. With the Beta JUST starting, and release 2-3 months away, they've either got to have a crack team that knows EXACTLY how to fix something the second it's reported, or they're going to use the release as an extended beta 2.0 of sorts and fix things over time prior to the PS3 release (either way, there will be bugs at release, and they will be gone come the PS3 release)

Though come to think of it O.o just for speculation sake, since most of the Nihongo players are on the PS3, perhaps SE could be using the UK/US/JP players on the PC to fix their **** before the majority of their own nations players pick up the game (hooray farfetched ideas)

Edited, Jul 4th 2010 1:30am by Naeo
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#14 Jul 03 2010 at 11:28 PM Rating: Good
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ThiefX wrote:
It is because of this I think (I would be willing to bet on it) you will see Square release the Japanese PS3 version very soon after the PC release and way before the U.S. PS3 players get theirs in March.


That makes no sense whatsoever. The only difference between a japanese FFXIV and a NA FFXIV is the localization. Since they are releasing NA PC version the same time as japanese PC version it's more than safe to say it is localized already. If they released the PS3 version in Japan there would be absolutely no reason not to everywhere else.

Japanese players have easy access to internet cafe's so really all you'll have is a bunch of JP players headed to their local internet cafe prior to the PS3 release...which they probably already do anyway.
#15 Jul 03 2010 at 11:36 PM Rating: Good
AckersFury wrote:
well i cant talk about the beta, so moving on

maybe the dev's are happy with the way the game is and they dont need as much time as they thought they were gonna need for the beta, there wasnt actually that much wrong with the alpha except it wasnt optimized very well, but as you can see from the E3 footage the game has come along way since alpha, seems to me like there happy with the pc version and feel it'll be ready for september..ps3 on the otherhand obviously needs more work, the ps3 is a hard console to code for, and mmo type games arent really designed to run on console hardware, so the ps3 version being delayed isnt really that surprising....look how the ffxi port turned out on the xbox lol, if the pc version wasnt ready, SE would delay it, and they still might, anything can change between now and september

its funny, if the pc version had of been delayed until march same as the ps3 version everyone would be up in arms about it, now the game is actually being released in september which people should be happy about, people are moaning and slating se saying there rushing it...SE cant win


My position hasn't changed. SE said they wanted a longer beta than XI had, and I found that to be encouraging. Throughout the alpha, they were requesting feedback on specific areas of the game with each round of testing, but they kept repeating that their primary goal was to sort out server stability. They did adjust the combat system based on alpha feedback and they have no doubt addressed a number of the bugs that cropped up during the testing, but that's not the only reason to hold a public beta test. We were told before it started that they wanted to give as many people as possible an opportunity to test the game and offer feedback that they could use to improve upon it. What we ended up with was a lengthy alpha consisting primarily of FFXI players that gobbled up all of the beta time and now SE has given themselves two months to gather feedback from a more broad spectrum of players and implement it as they feel is appropriate.

The end result is likely to be a game that is at a much lower level of polish than it could have been had they stuck to their original plan and run a lengthier beta test with a broader spectrum of players. The way it's looking now, the beta will be little more than two months for SE to expand on and configure the server banks for retail release. MMOs are dynamic and they can always be (and should always be) tweaked and adjusted once they go live, but history has shown us that releasing an unpolished product can have dire consequences. There's usually a 3-6 month window after release that will make or break an MMO when word of mouth overtakes careful marketing releases in terms of attracting new players. If the game is rough around the edges and the PC crowd is unimpressed, it's going to hurt SE and the game as a whole in the long run.
#16 Jul 03 2010 at 11:41 PM Rating: Good
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I'm putting my chips down on my own theory:

SE is rushing PC release because it is much much easier to patch and release said patch. They could probably do a patch per week if they really needed to. On the same token programming for the PC is probably a lot faster and fool-proof than the same process would be for the PS3 SDK.

What does this mean in short, for the PC players? I have this feeling the six months PC users have with the game before PS3 players join in is going to be one big paid beta. Just like any of the other recent MMO releases, SE has opted to make it's early adapters pay to beta test the rest of the bugs and major balance issues.

Whoever said they think WoW is the cause of it is just talking out their ***. There is no direct correlation between anything WoW is doing and the rushed release of the PC version for FFXIV. SE does not see WoW as it's main threat as WoW will not suddenly spring into existence and steal players from FFXIV. If any outside source was rushing FFXIV, it would be other soon-to-be released MMO's that will appear in early or mid 2011. The idea being the early release gives people with free time a chance to try FFXIV and get hooked before the other big guns come out to play in 2011.
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#17 Jul 04 2010 at 12:06 AM Rating: Good
FenrirXIII wrote:
I'm putting my chips down on my own theory:

SE is rushing PC release because it is much much easier to patch and release said patch. They could probably do a patch per week if they really needed to. On the same token programming for the PC is probably a lot faster and fool-proof than the same process would be for the PS3 SDK.


I just hope they aren't shooting themselves in the foot by releasing a Beta game disguised as a retail release. This is one of the biggest things that can hamper a new MMO's success right from the start. Look at SWG, or, by FAR worse, Mortal Online.
#18 Jul 04 2010 at 12:11 AM Rating: Good
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
FenrirXIII wrote:
I'm putting my chips down on my own theory:

SE is rushing PC release because it is much much easier to patch and release said patch. They could probably do a patch per week if they really needed to. On the same token programming for the PC is probably a lot faster and fool-proof than the same process would be for the PS3 SDK.


I just hope they aren't shooting themselves in the foot by releasing a Beta game disguised as a retail release. This is one of the biggest things that can hamper a new MMO's success right from the start. Look at SWG, or, by FAR worse, Mortal Online.


Oh I totally agree with that. You only get one chance at releasing a game. If you ***** that up you can basically throw in the towel...your game is done.

Edited, Jul 4th 2010 12:11am by Yogtheterrible
#19 Jul 04 2010 at 12:20 AM Rating: Good
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My theory is SE knows what they're doing.
#20 Jul 04 2010 at 12:20 AM Rating: Good
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let's just hope it's not so half assed that XIV gets a horrible rep. XI already has a bad rep for being a time sink and mob-grind (yes, cause it's so much different than quest-grinds?)
XIV having a bad rep from the get go could potentially shun people from any other SE-MMOs, despite their reputation for good console games.
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#21 Jul 04 2010 at 12:31 AM Rating: Default
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I think they're just releasing it in september to have a chance in **** at selling copies to the wow community. With cataclysm around the corner, releasing ffxiv around or a month after cataclysm is business suicide. Therefor release the PC version first, don't worry about the PS3 users, they're a different culture. Not to mention the other next big mmos coming out late 2010/early 2011. It's the first thing that popped into my mind, but I feared saying it would result in fire and flames. Honestly though, I've had that conversation about possible release dates for ffxiv with friends months ago. Please don't reply with a blatant "you're an idiot you're wrong". Thanks.
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#22 Jul 04 2010 at 12:36 AM Rating: Default
GuardianFaith wrote:
I think they're just releasing it in september to have a chance in **** at selling copies to the wow community. With cataclysm around the corner, releasing ffxiv around or a month after cataclysm is business suicide. Therefor release the PC version first, don't worry about the PS3 users, they're a different culture. Not to mention the other next big mmos coming out late 2010/early 2011. It's the first thing that popped into my mind, but I feared saying it would result in fire and flames. Honestly though, I've had that conversation about possible release dates for ffxiv with friends months ago. Please don't reply with a blatant "you're an idiot you're wrong". Thanks.


The WoW community is largely indifferent to Cataclysm. There's some enthusiasm, but nothing anywhere near what Blizzard had going into WotLK. The focus for Cataclysm is largely on freshening up vanilla zones and while there's still going to be lots of new endgame content, Deathwing isn't nearly so compelling an arch villain as Arthas/Lich King. There are a lot of WoW players who would be willing to take a look at something new if something worthwhile came along, but SE pushing an unpolished product out the door isn't going to be that "something new".
#23 Jul 04 2010 at 12:48 AM Rating: Good
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The WoW community is largely indifferent to Cataclysm. There's some enthusiasm, but nothing anywhere near what Blizzard had going into WotLK. The focus for Cataclysm is largely on freshening up vanilla zones and while there's still going to be lots of new endgame content, Deathwing isn't nearly so compelling an arch villain as Arthas/Lich King. There are a lot of WoW players who would be willing to take a look at something new if something worthwhile came along, but SE pushing an unpolished product out the door isn't going to be that "something new".


I know a lot of people who are excited for Cataclysm. The only reason I'm not is because I plan on jumping ship back to SE.. but I have to disagree with the community being largely indifferent to revamps, flying anywhere, new heroics, new races, new quests, gear, and endgame content. If you have a statistic you found somewhere; a poll, study, even a thread, I'd like to see it. Not being combative, I'm just honestly intrigued by your statement.
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#24 Jul 04 2010 at 1:15 AM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia wrote:
I know that most of the JP FFXI players were on PS2, but This site makes it sound like the JP players aren't going to have a major time adapting to XIV on PC.


Just because a few Haijin have tweaked out PCs doesn't reflect the general population. People on FFXIVfan are hardcore fans just like US players here or on any other fan site. There's a ton of casual gamers that play MMOs, and will play this game, in fact a lot of Japanese gamers are fairly casual, so it's correct to say I'm betting there will be a huge tipping of the scales at PS3 release, I'm betting before then NA or EU may even have the majority.
#25 Jul 04 2010 at 1:22 AM Rating: Default
GuardianFaith wrote:
Quote:
The WoW community is largely indifferent to Cataclysm. There's some enthusiasm, but nothing anywhere near what Blizzard had going into WotLK. The focus for Cataclysm is largely on freshening up vanilla zones and while there's still going to be lots of new endgame content, Deathwing isn't nearly so compelling an arch villain as Arthas/Lich King. There are a lot of WoW players who would be willing to take a look at something new if something worthwhile came along, but SE pushing an unpolished product out the door isn't going to be that "something new".


I know a lot of people who are excited for Cataclysm. The only reason I'm not is because I plan on jumping ship back to SE.. but I have to disagree with the community being largely indifferent to revamps, flying anywhere, new heroics, new races, new quests, gear, and endgame content. If you have a statistic you found somewhere; a poll, study, even a thread, I'd like to see it. Not being combative, I'm just honestly intrigued by your statement.


All it takes is a trip over to the WoW boards here. There are a total of four threads on the expansion on page one...3 of them by the same person. Compared to the amount of WotLK discussion that was taking place a few months prior to that expansion and the amount of Cataclysm discussion now, it's pretty obvious that most people are pretty meh about the whole thing. I wouldn't call people negative about it, but they're not exactly doing backflips with anticipatory glee. Cataclysm isn't going to glue people to WoW. The people with an eye open for something new will still be receptive to those new offerings after Cataclysm goes live.
#26 Jul 04 2010 at 1:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:


All it takes is a trip over to the WoW boards here. There are a total of four threads on the expansion on page one...3 of them by the same person. Compared to the amount of WotLK discussion that was taking place a few months prior to that expansion and the amount of Cataclysm discussion now, it's pretty obvious that most people are pretty meh about the whole thing. I wouldn't call people negative about it, but they're not exactly doing backflips with anticipatory glee. Cataclysm isn't going to glue people to WoW. The people with an eye open for something new will still be receptive to those new offerings after Cataclysm goes live.


I see what you're sayin'. I don't completely agree but you have a point and I respect your thoughts. I haven't been in the WoW general in a while.
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#27 Jul 04 2010 at 1:49 AM Rating: Decent
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I've lived in Japan - internet cafes are everywhere and they have all the MMOs that a Japanese person could possibly want to play installed on them (including FFXI). If someone really wants to play FFXIV that's where they'll be! Besides, I don't think it a bad thing to have NA and EU taking the reigns this time around.
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#28 Jul 04 2010 at 3:02 AM Rating: Good
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Speaking on my own behalf as a player who quit WoW, Cataclysm isn't offering anything that would compel me to come back. I was personally pretty meh about it before I had made up my mind to quit. I admit that some things did interest me like playable Worgen and finally putting that bothersome peninsula south of Silverpine to use, Heroic versions of old dungeons, it all sounded nice; but 5 more levels with no new talent tier and some global area revamps without many new areas... SE did it first and they called it WotG. Lore-wise, I don't particularly care for the whole Garrosh taking over the Horde thing, but whatever.

Also speaking on my own behalf, and I've already said this in another thread, I really couldn't care less what WoW is doing as far as "competing" with FFXIV. I'm well aware that WoW is indisputably the most popular MMOG on the market; it has a pretty massive playerbase, and while I understand from a marketing/corporate standpoint the desire to try to "take players away from WoW", I really don't care that much that I think it should result in releasing a product early for that (if that's even the reason).

If WoW players are going to give XIV a try, then let them try it and decide what they think. But the whole concept of hurrying a XIV release to try to draw up some extra sales from people who would be otherwise undecided between Cataclysm and XIV and are just planning to play whatever comes first... how big of a market share -is- that? Who cares?

I'd rather play a completed product on day one than a product that was rushed to try to compete with anyone. I mean, I know that my opinion probably isn't the majority one and definitely isn't a marketing/PR viewpoint, but as far as I'm concerned, ***** everyone else. I don't care how popular any game is or how many people are playing other games; all I care about is how much I enjoy playing whatever game I'm playing, and the people I'm playing with, whether that game is XIV, XI, WoW, RO, or a MUD.

The whole "Several million WoW players vs 500k FFXI players"... don't care. Never have, never will. The amount of people who drink Coke isn't going to convince me that I don't like Pepsi, why should another MMORPG's subscribers matter? Why does it seem that every MMOG wants to be "The WoW killer", as if the only goal for producing their game is to compete with WoW and draw players away from it? Here's a thought: Make a game people will want to play, and if you made it right, people will play it. If you're making a product with the sole purpose of attempting to draw consumers from another product, then the first thing anyone can say about your product is that the bulk of your consumer base is fickle and transient.

Again, no hate on WoW here; I played and enjoyed the game for years before I quit, and it's a game that offers a lot of things for a lot of people (although it didn't offer anything to me anymore) but the inherent popularity of the game, that "Everyone's playing it" factor didn't enter in to my reasons for starting it, my reasons for playing it, or my reasons for quitting it. It is what it is and nothing more.

For all I care, XIV could have a sparse 100,000 players and 4-5 servers. As long as I'm having fun, I don't care that anything else is "more popular" and see no reason to compete with them.
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#29 Jul 04 2010 at 6:16 AM Rating: Decent
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The important question is: do we want the bulk of the WoW populace on XIV though? not to sound crude or anything, but my experience in WoWland, was filled with more elitism than i've ever seen in XI during it's hayday, especially after the introduction of GearScore or w/e.

The more "WoW" people we get, the more and more people are going to want addons, and third parties will wind up making them. Windower originally started out as a simple way to Alt-Tab out of XI, now look at it. Would you want to actually play XIV with neanderthals that rely on addons more than their own common sense or intelligence?

Let WoW have their fanbase i say.
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#30 Jul 04 2010 at 7:56 AM Rating: Good
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AckersFury wrote:


its funny, if the pc version had of been delayed until march same as the ps3 version everyone would be up in arms about it, now the game is actually being released in september which people should be happy about, people are moaning and slating se saying there rushing it...SE cant win


Well, rushed MMOs tend to fail, so it's a legitimate thing to worry about. I don't know if they're rushing FFXIV or if the PC version is just that close to being ready, but 2 1/2 months from start of beta (maybe, it's not even started yet) to release is a very short period of time, even for a company like S-E that likes to keep things very close to the vest.

This is S-E we're talking about here, and they have a bit of a reputation for not always putting the customer first. It's not inconceivable that they are making a cynical decision that they know isn't in the best interest of the player base, just to gain a whole bunch of PC box sales, whether those people stick around or not.
#31 Jul 04 2010 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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A couple examples.

Valve announced Portal 2 would be pushed back till 2011 at E3. I must admit that I was looking forward to it this October (my birthday is in October and my fiancee was planning to buy it for me; now she has to find something else). However, I trust Valve and know that if they're delaying it, it's because they aren't happy with the final product. And if they're not happy, then I will gladly wait until they are. Cleverbot and I can sing 'Still Alive' in the meantime.

Soul Reaver 1 was pushed back until they could push it back no longer and it was STILL released unfinished; the Turelium vampire clan were -completely- left out (they had to put them in SR2 to close up that hole in the story), as were the alternate reavers. There would/should have been two more reavers, a yellow one and a red one. (They exist in the game files but there is no way to obtain them ingame) and as you approach the end of the game, after beating Dumah, it becomes fairly obvious that the ending was rushed when you compare it to the final leg of SR2 or Defiance. I know that by this point they had pushed the game back so much, and I did enjoy playing it regardless (I got it for Christmas and beat it at 12:15ish AM New Year's Day; New Year's Eve party at my parents' house, I had taken a break to watch the ball drop just before the final boss fight), but the game still felt like it was missing something; a four meat pizza with no pepperoni on two of the slices... it was still good, but it was still somewhat off.

Duke Nukem Forever Whenever was supposed to... no, let's just leave that one alone.

Even Blizzard's release plans for new games (currently Diablo 3, but others in the past such as Starcraft II and Diablo 2) is pretty much along the lines of "It's done when it's done."

I -believe- Mass Effect 2 was delayed as well, although I'm unsure on this.

Games aren't the only realm all this applies in; movies have this as well. You'll see movies that were very obviously rushed and horrible and you'll see movies that were delayed and were great.

Of course this isn't to say that ALL rushed products suck or that ALL delayed products are spectacular; there have been good products that got rushed and horrible products despite several delays.

In the end, if a company feels they need to take a little more time to "get it right", I'd rather they do that then "Ship it now, patch it later".

We shall see.
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#32 Jul 04 2010 at 9:03 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
ThiefX wrote:
It is because of this I think (I would be willing to bet on it) you will see Square release the Japanese PS3 version very soon after the PC release and way before the U.S. PS3 players get theirs in March.


That makes no sense whatsoever. The only difference between a japanese FFXIV and a NA FFXIV is the localization. Since they are releasing NA PC version the same time as japanese PC version it's more than safe to say it is localized already. If they released the PS3 version in Japan there would be absolutely no reason not to everywhere else.


It makes sense if you consider that the PS3 version isn't complete because Square pulled resources from the PS3 development so they could push the PC release.

And localization is no easy task for a game this large it's not as simple as hiring a couple of people to translate things if it was then most games releases would have have similar release dates in the U.S. and Japan which is very rarely the case. With the exception of the PC version of FFXIV I cannot remember one FF game that the U.S. and Japanese had the same release date. (Not including FFXI expansion packs)



Quote:
I think they're just releasing it in september to have a chance in **** at selling copies to the wow community


This right here is why I think Square did what they did.

Let's be honest WOW is the biggest kid on the block but with that being said WOW is also the "oldest" kid on the block (in terms of mainstream MMO's) and some of their "hardcore" fans are starting to look for that next big thing so I believe Square made a conscientious business decision to bone PS3 users (The knew they could get most of them back) in an attempt to pick up some of WOW's player base.


Edited, Jul 4th 2010 8:03am by ThiefX
#33 Jul 04 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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ThiefX wrote:
Quote:
I think they're just releasing it in september to have a chance in **** at selling copies to the wow community


This right here is why I think Square did what they did.

Let's be honest WOW is the biggest kid on the block but with that being said WOW is also the "oldest" kid on the block (in terms of mainstream MMO's) and some of their "hardcore" fans are starting to look for that next big thing so I believe Square made a conscientious business decision to bone PS3 users (The knew they could get most of them back) in an attempt to pick up some of WOW's player base.


If that honestly is the reason, I think it's terribly silly.

Like I said before; if someone currently playing a different MMORPG wants to give XIV a try, then let them try it. If they like it, they will stay and if they don't like it, they will leave.

I see no point in trying to get the attention of a few WoW players before Cataclysm comes out. I mean, what's the point? Either they won't care enough because their computer can't run the game, or they'll buy and install it, find out the game needs to be on minimum settings (if it runs at all) and they'll come here to pich a fit about how they want their money back, or they'll play it for a month or two until Cataclysm comes out, at which point most of them (who haven't gotten bored and quit already) will get bored and quit.

In the end, I just see this as ending up flooding the servers with some impatient ADHD players who won't shut up about WoW for 1-3 months.

Sure, we might get a few people who give the game a try, like it, and end up being good players. But even if there is a "plan to get WoW players", I strongly hope that it fails, just so I don't have to deal with hearing it until it dies down.

There are four types of WoW players. There are the intelligent ones who are happy with WoW, there are the intelligent ones who are unhappy with WoW and looking for something new or could be convinced to give another game a try, there are the unintelligent ones who are happy with WoW, and there are the unintelligent ones who are looking for something new or could be convinced to give another game a try.

The first and the third won't even bother. The second will likely join regardless and I welcome them. The fourth I can live without.
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#34 Jul 04 2010 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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At first glance the whole WoW-hate thing might seem like making a common enemy for the sake of solidifying your base, but because people have been trying that angle for years, it kind of comes off a bit flat. It's like the MMO equivalent of making a Bush joke.

#35 Jul 04 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Default
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Everyone (or at least a lot of people) is assuming the PC version of FFXIV is rushed or is being rushed but I don't think so.

I think Square pulled every available resource from the PS3 side to make sure the PC version was "ready" by September. It also explains why a 6 month delay for the U.S. PS3 version (yes I said U.S. version because I still think that the Japanese console users are to big for SE to ***** over for long and that is why the Japanese will be playing FFXIV on their PS3's before Christmas)

Square knows that PS3 users are mostly stuck so they are not worried about ******* them off too much because with the exception of a few gamers most PS3 players will wait the 6 months longer (Square will probably throw in some useless "shiny" free item so PS3 users will forgive them)and get back 99% of them.

But anything they "lose" Square is hoping to get back by chipping away at WOW's sizable players base.
#36 Jul 04 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
There are four types of WoW players. There are the intelligent ones who are happy with WoW, there are the intelligent ones who are unhappy with WoW and looking for something new or could be convinced to give another game a try, there are the unintelligent ones who are happy with WoW, and there are the unintelligent ones who are looking for something new or could be convinced to give another game a try.

The first and the third won't even bother. The second will likely join regardless and I welcome them. The fourth I can live without.


Really? I'm becoming rather tired of the smart MMO crowd. These days I'd prefer a humble dumb guy who knows he's a bit behind in the brilliance department. A guy who's willing to work a bit harder to earn the trust and respect of his comrades. A man such as myself. ;P
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#37 Jul 04 2010 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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People that know they're behind, and want to work hard for respect/gear are fine. i think he's more refering to the players that tried to WAR/WHM tank because " I can curez myself lololol"

or the SAM50/MNK12 and so forth
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#38 Jul 04 2010 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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Going back to the original topic/question. I would actually be really interested in knowing what if anything the Japanese community is saying about all of this. There has to be someone who has done some lurking on a Japanese forum or something that might have some info.
#39 Jul 04 2010 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
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I think much of this may be unfounded. What I found shocking in the Alpha was that they weren't really looking much for input on the internal dynamics of the game at all and were mostly focused on the server backbone.

What do I think was happening? A few months before Alpha started they did a freeze on the client and forked it to the released Alpha and to a development Beta client. While people were doing beta they were simply putzing around on the Alpha client using the servers that were being developed while the server fixes were migrated to the Beta fork that was being developed using internal testers. This is how they pulled a much more polished Beta out of their hats for the game shows.

Why do I think this is the case? There was a screenshot of a pugilist fighting a few mobs on their website prior to Alpha starting that was using some of the graphical advances that we're only seeing now in the Beta client. Ask yourselves this: why didn't they seem to be responsive to commentary on gameplay outside of server lag? Does this seem normal for a company gearing up for release? Why would you do a shorter beta than your alpha unless your beta has really been running longer than people realized?

I suspect that the Beta started shortly before the Alpha was opened up to the public. It's been drawing off of the server patches (since connection issues are the thing that is hardest to test in house) and the game direction has been 100% influenced by the in house crew. The Alpha was nothing more than a stunt for guerrilla marketing purposes.

If you guys fire up the beta and find things much more polished in nearly every regard than the Alpha it pretty much proves my case and there is nothing to worry about. If you log in and it is similar to the Alpha in its issues with a shinier coat of paint and the new ATB system ... welp, then you can get very scared.
#40 Jul 04 2010 at 5:57 PM Rating: Good
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Naeo wrote:
People that know they're behind, and want to work hard for respect/gear are fine. i think he's more refering to the players that tried to WAR/WHM tank because " I can curez myself lololol"

or the SAM50/MNK12 and so forth


Yeah. That. Go sit in city trade chat for an hour or two.

I have all the patience in the world for someone who is a bit slow but is genuinely trying. People who seem as though they're almost willfully ignorant I could live without.
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#41 Jul 04 2010 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
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I'll speak my own WoW/Cataclysm thoughts here:

I've taken a break on WoW, for several reasons:

#1: Them "banning" (they perma-banned then lifted it when I complained) my mom's account for "Excessive Farming" bullsh*t. We saw people farming Sholazar almost 24/7 and they hit _us_ for "excessive" farming because our actions were "not typical of normal players" and we "appeared to be engaging in Real Money Trade"? WTF!? Did they not _check_ our Transaction (AH/Trade) history? If they had, they would have seen that not a single copper was ever traded to any character not owned by us. They would have seen that we made no abnormally expensive purchases of normal items (moving money around), or any such RMT-related activities. This *really* killed Mom's desire to play WoW, and it kinda put a sour taste in my own mouth too, so-to-speak.

#2: After leveling 7 characters to Level 80 and getting another one to 64-ish, another to 75, and I forget what the last is on, I got kinda burned out on the whole solo questing/grinding thing. I also got tired of waiting 15+ minutes as a DPS to get into a dungeon, and I just... well I got burned out in general.

#3: I wanted to switch sides for awhile and do some Horde (my mains were Alliance) but... well, Cataclysm is going to change a lot of low-level questing... why do low-level crap _now_ when I can wait until they make it better with Cataclysm?

#4: That whole thing where they had us killing the Lich King before the "end" of the expansion was kinda dumb... they released all-new raid content that's not as hard, and not even the climax of the story, etc... I know it is supposed to be some sort of "prologue" to Cataclysm, but honestly... I think they could have delayed the Lich King himself about 3 months or so, and then also delay the Ruby Sanctum another 3 months... that would have made a lot more sense, IMO.

#5: Farming markets have gotten very sour. The economy is pretty much dead on farmable goods; one doesn't really make much money when people are selling ore for less than the vendor price (!?!?) especially when nobody is buying. Even the enchanting materials market has been pretty bad lately, with shards, essence, and dust a fraction of what they used to be, and I Honestly don't feel like doing dailies every day on several characters... I have 4 Crusaders... I Honestly don't feel like ever stepping foot in the Tourney Grounds again, TBH.

So, I'm taking a break from WoW. I will, of course, come back after Cataclysm's release. I also plan on trying XIV and if they do well with it, and make it so that mom and I can actually do things other than XP and Craft duo, we will most likely drop XI in favor of XIV.
#42 Jul 04 2010 at 6:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Considering the beta for the game hasn't started yet, they're rushing it.


That still doesn't mean that they haven't been working on it all this time as the testers played the Alpha version. They probably started working on it in March, even before the Alpha started. Even though there were server issues I don't think that affected the work of other programmers severely.
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#43 Jul 04 2010 at 9:01 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
What we ended up with was a lengthy alpha consisting primarily of FFXI players that gobbled up all of the beta time and now SE has given themselves two months to gather feedback from a more broad spectrum of players and implement it as they feel is appropriate.

The end result is likely to be a game that is at a much lower level of polish than it could have been had they stuck to their original plan and run a lengthier beta test with a broader spectrum of players. The way it's looking now, the beta will be little more than two months for SE to expand on and configure the server banks for retail release. MMOs are dynamic and they can always be (and should always be) tweaked and adjusted once they go live, but history has shown us that releasing an unpolished product can have dire consequences. There's usually a 3-6 month window after release that will make or break an MMO when word of mouth overtakes careful marketing releases in terms of attracting new players. If the game is rough around the edges and the PC crowd is unimpressed, it's going to hurt SE and the game as a whole in the long run.


I agree with this completely. S-E has said they want to take feedback from beta testers into consideration, but how much feedback are they going to have time to implement with less than 3 months to go before release date and testing not even yet begun? The closer this gets to release date... the more things I hear about this game's release (no simultaneous PS3 launch, the pricing plan for alts/retainers, CE purchasers getting kind of hosed on the in-game item, super close test-to-launch time, etc.) the more I think this game is going to be a) not as great or as in-touch with the MMO player-base as I'd hoped and b) completely torn to shreds by N. American game critics who seem to already hate the game as it is.
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#44 Jul 04 2010 at 10:01 PM Rating: Decent
Hyanmen wrote:
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Considering the beta for the game hasn't started yet, they're rushing it.


That still doesn't mean that they haven't been working on it all this time as the testers played the Alpha version. They probably started working on it in March, even before the Alpha started. Even though there were server issues I don't think that affected the work of other programmers severely.


I'm not talking about development of the beta client. I'm talking about the actual beta testing. Right now SE has a release date for a game not even three months away and the actual beta testing hasn't started.
#45 Jul 04 2010 at 11:44 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Considering the beta for the game hasn't started yet, they're rushing it.


That still doesn't mean that they haven't been working on it all this time as the testers played the Alpha version. They probably started working on it in March, even before the Alpha started. Even though there were server issues I don't think that affected the work of other programmers severely.


I'm not talking about development of the beta client. I'm talking about the actual beta testing. Right now SE has a release date for a game not even three months away and the actual beta testing hasn't started.


I know that I have my preorder in for 11/22 and all that... but I will laugh so **** hard if the game gets pushed back because they need more time for the beta. I mean, I'll be ********* but I'll laugh.

As I've said before... take your time and get the product right, don't rush to release an unfinished product, especially when people are paying a monthly fee for it.
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