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#52 Jul 08 2010 at 1:06 AM Rating: Good
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30m-1hr spawn times.
100% drop rate.
Rare/Ex would make me happy.


If the battles are challenging, I could deal with this.


I could also handle this, but...

Quote:

Its no longer special anymore if every single person on the server has it.


I hope they can think of a way around this. If everyone can get it, it's not the best of the best anymore. It's standard and becomes required. Everyone would be required to have it as soon as they get to the level or skill level required to equip it.


Rare things should stay rare. It should be a bonus to have it. You see a player in your squad has "Super Cape of Awesomeness" it should be "Wow nice cape man".

In the instance that everyone is easily able to get the "Super Cape of Awesomeness", and someone shows up to your squad without it. You know there will be those people, "Aw man this guy's a noob he doesn't have the cape, kick him and get someone else". Not everyone is like that, but many are.

So the question is, how can they make it easy to claim with high drop rates on Rare/Ex drops, while still not making it so easy that everyone has it?


So yeah I contradicted myself in the same post. Guess some people are hard to please, sheesh.
#53 Jul 08 2010 at 7:40 AM Rating: Decent
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I hope they can think of a way around this. If everyone can get it, it's not the best of the best anymore. It's standard and becomes required. Everyone would be required to have it as soon as they get to the level or skill level required to equip it.


Rare things should stay rare. It should be a bonus to have it. You see a player in your squad has "Super Cape of Awesomeness" it should be "Wow nice cape man".

In the instance that everyone is easily able to get the "Super Cape of Awesomeness", and someone shows up to your squad without it. You know there will be those people, "Aw man this guy's a noob he doesn't have the cape, kick him and get someone else". Not everyone is like that, but many are.

So the question is, how can they make it easy to claim with high drop rates on Rare/Ex drops, while still not making it so easy that everyone has it?


So yeah I contradicted myself in the same post. Guess some people are hard to please, sheesh.


This is exactly one of the reasons why I was perfectly fine with the drop rate. I would much rather a lower drop rate as long as the item means something when u get it. I don't think everything should have a low drop rate though of course, since everything shouldn't be rare and hard to get. But, I would probably quit rather quickly if 99% of the good stuff was a 100% drop rate. Just think of any item in FFXI that was a 100% drop rate (there were some), the item had no special feeling, it just felt like a chore.
#54 Jul 08 2010 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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HocusP wrote:
Just think of any item in FFXI that was a 100% drop rate (there were some), the item had no special feeling, it just felt like a chore.
Yeah, I mean getting stuff like Homam gear, a Rajas Ring, or a Suppanomimi gave no sense of accomplishment at all. Game is much more fun when you do something like farm Kirin pop items for a week, have a two hour fight taking him down, and he only drops a wind crystal.

Edited, Jul 8th 2010 9:40am by Harri
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#55 Jul 08 2010 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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Yea I like the thought of taking the time and effort to wait patiently and kill everything in sight to outclaim botters and RMT. I like the thrill of my buttcheeks clenching hoping my "Super Cape of Awesomeness" drops lol. The thought of having things that other people have is awesome, I had the retaliators and not a lot of other people had them from what I noticed. I kinda collected h2h weapons on my monk even if they were crap but there were some from the sea serpent grotto that other people had never seen before and that was cool. I like the fact that NM timers are longer depending on the difficulty and rarity of the drops, I dont want it to change
#56 Jul 08 2010 at 11:03 AM Rating: Default
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Yeah, I mean getting stuff like Homam gear, a Rajas Ring, or a Suppanomimi gave no sense of accomplishment at all. Game is much more fun when you do something like farm Kirin pop items for a week, have a two hour fight taking him down, and he only drops a wind crystal.


We are talking about items that drop, not stuff that is given after you complete missions. Rajas ring was special because it was the reward of doing a ton of missions and achieving sea, it wasn't just a single drop off a NM. Same goes for Suppanomimi (given from a quest). Homam gear from limbus was pretty much common stuff, I never really seen anybody really get excited when getting Homam gear.

The exaggerating isn't helping either, I mean who really fights kirin for 2 hours, and you have to be very unlucky to get absolutely nothing but a wind crystal (although it has happened). Nothing with a 100 % drop rate feels special unless you put it behind a set of missions or quests, or a crazy hard boss (that everybody wouldn't be able to beat). We were mostly talking about a single drop off a NM though, not having to do a series of missions which makes the drop feel special. High drop rates take the special feeling off drops, because everybody will have it. If everybody has something then it is not special anymore now is it.

If everybody could play like Lebron James then he wouldn't be a star. Same goes for if everybody has an item then the item is not rare. If something is common then its not special, its just common.
#57 Jul 08 2010 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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yea i want to have the lebron james of items and i want to earn them, if they lowered the re pop timers on stuff and increased drop rates it would make the game too easy, in fact that sounds like a different game i played....WORLD OF WARCRAFT... I hope they keep the 4-6 hr and 24 hr re pops, gives a sense of accomplishment and its something you earned because you took the time to get it, in my opinion they shouldn't give stuff away like blizz does.
#58 Jul 08 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have no problem with NMs. To me they're like PvP: if you want to participate, cool; if not, you don't have to do it. I think any NM drop should be R/EX. This way, if you want that specific piece of gear, go deal with the NM.

However, I think the instances used in FFXI for non-R/EX is still a really good idea. You have a way to get it through hunting the NM, and you have a way to get it which requires cooperation (usually), skill (usually), and really only depends on the luck of the drop rate. When they first started this system, I loved it. Gear that I wanted which I thought was outrageously priced or that came from an NM I had no interest in camping, I could now grab friends, hop into an instance, and make a night of trying for the drop for any member in the team who wanted the gear. Even if I didn't get anything useful, I usually had fun since I was hanging out with friends. If even one person got the piece of gear they wanted, then it always felt like a success cause we'd be happy for them knowing how happy any of us would feel if we got it too.
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#59 Jul 08 2010 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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I didnt like instancing in FFXI, i likes the instances in WoW though, it was one of the only aspects i enjoyed in WoW. if they made instances like that, pull big groups and have several mini-bosses and a main boss i would instance grind all the way to the lvl cap in FFXIV. I just didnt care for the one boss pull instances or the all regular mobs and no bosses. Dynamis was different, i did enjoy dynamis but the normal mobs could be a pain in the *** if you had stupid people lol.
#60 Jul 08 2010 at 12:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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HocusP wrote:
The exaggerating isn't helping either, I mean who really fights kirin for 2 hours, and you have to be very unlucky to get absolutely nothing but a wind crystal (although it has happened).
Not anymore, but back in the day 2hour Kirin fights weren't that uncommon. Getting just a wind crystal in those circumstances may have not been common, but it happens. I've seen it. I have no issue with rare drop rates, but there is a point where you are going way too far however. FFXI crossed that line in many instances.

The main heartburn I had with NM gear in FFXI was:
a) It was sellable until things were patched to make them rare/ex so the same few people would monopolize them, basically taking that aspect of the game completely away from the rest of the player base, plus where's the sense of accomplishment when someone can just buy the thing off the AH? Of course the people who made their livings off these NMs enjoyed that aspect of the game. The hundreds of people who had to deal with these professional campers hogging that particular content for themselves did not however. They finally got it right by having a buyable option obtainable by a more fair means, while putting a rare/ex version on the NM.

b) A lot of the gear had no equal or even anything comparable. Nothing even touched things like Leaping Boots, Snipers Rings, O Kotes, Striders, etc., at least not until years later. Because of this, the elitist attitudes gained steam for those that didn't have these things, even though they should have been considered luxury items. Basically any MNK who didn't spend millions on gear or camp the NMs themselves when they were a mere level 40 was considered a huge gimp. Nevermind any melee job trying to show their face in an exp party without having Sniper Rings x2, especially if you were a DRK. Early players should remember these times. SE has since bridged a lot of those gaps with newer gear and food but it took them years to do it.

Make all NM drops rare/ex and don't make their drops so overpowering and I won't have too many complaints about that kind of system being in FFXIV. Do a repeat of FFXI, and forget it. I do not want to have to go back to that same crap I had to deal with in XI in order to be "properly" geared.

Edited, Jul 8th 2010 1:18pm by Harri
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#61 Jul 08 2010 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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Oh I've spent much much longer than 2 hours on Kirin. When people are new to fighting him and don't necessarily have the right jobs, gear, or skills... it takes awhile to get into a groove. Even then, one mishap and half the group dies and his HP are regenerated and it starts all over. I've been in a couple of fights where people eventually started leaving and we had to basically give up and let another LS have him. I've also been in a couple where we had to invite better players from the linkshell that was waiting for their turn. Of course I've also helped kill him many times very fast when people are skillchaining and cycling fresh mages. I've been there for many zerg style too, but as a rdm/blm/bst I was pretty much on the sidelines enjoying the show. Those are pretty boring, despite being effective.

#62 Jul 08 2010 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Mithsavvy wrote:
Oh I've spent much much longer than 2 hours on Kirin. When people are new to fighting him and don't necessarily have the right jobs, gear, or skills... it takes awhile to get into a groove. Even then, one mishap and half the group dies and his HP are regenerated and it starts all over. I've been in a couple of fights where people eventually started leaving and we had to basically give up and let another LS have him. I've also been in a couple where we had to invite better players from the linkshell that was waiting for their turn. Of course I've also helped kill him many times very fast when people are skillchaining and cycling fresh mages. I've been there for many zerg style too, but as a rdm/blm/bst I was pretty much on the sidelines enjoying the show. Those are pretty boring, despite being effective.



Back in the day I joined a ls that was doing their 1st Kirin and we fought it so long it ran out of mp. No joke.
#63 Jul 08 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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The problem isn't the NM, its the people that feel like the *have* to have the items they drop.

So let me get this straight, you don't like having the option to competitively camp against other players to get an item like the Emperor's Hairpin, so you're solution is to simply not have NM's and those special rare items in the game. Basically, if you can't have them, then nobody else should either?

So you are happy if SE would just delete NM's and the associated items. But you can't handle just accepting that you don't have to have those items and playing without them and not worry about camping for them. Basically if you know they exists, your are ****** that other players have the opportunity to have them.

Anyway, thats all I see when I read about people who don't like having rare drops from rare NMs.
#64 Jul 08 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Default
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So you are happy if SE would just delete NM's and the associated items. But you can't handle just accepting that you don't have to have those items and playing without them and not worry about camping for them. Basically if you know they exists, your are ****** that other players have the opportunity to have them



Bingo.

Quote:
Basically any MNK who didn't spend millions on gear or camp the NMs themselves when they were a mere level 40 was considered a huge gimp. Nevermind any melee job trying to show their face in an exp party without having Sniper Rings x2, especially if you were a DRK




I leveled MNK to 65 with no sniper rings and no NM rares when XI was still new to NA. Does that mean I'm a noob? Maybe, but no one ever mentioned anything about my gear not being good enough. Think they were scared of my Hundred Fists? Rawr!
#65 Jul 08 2010 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
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The bottom line is that most people don't enjoy it. What I think personally really doesn't enter into it.

As for making items unique and special, I have to wonder if some of you people have ever played video games? The way that you make something special, so that it's a trophy, is by making it something that's an accomplishment-- a challenge. There are only like a million examples of this. It should be an accomplishment because you killed the monster that others didn't. Not because you sat around for hours and claimed the monster (probably numerous times) that others didn't. I mean, read that aloud. It even sounds incredibly lame. Nobody is impressed by someone's claiming ability, or luckiness.

It really becomes a question of whether your envy outweighs your boredom. For some players, they would rather be bored than not be on top, so they make themselves do it-- the extrinsic rewards are enough for them. Most players would rather go do something fun instead. Very few people actually find the act itself fun-- it's all about the reward.

Nobody wants their options to be:
A) Do something incredibly boring.
or
B) Don't get any of the good stuff in the game or fight the cool fights.

It's terrible game design. Some of you like it, I get that. Please keep playing XI. Don't ask that 99% of players are punished for not liking something that is understandably unenjoyable.

Quote:

So let me get this straight, you don't like having the option to competitively camp against other players to get an item like the Emperor's Hairpin, so you're solution is to simply not have NM's and those special rare items in the game. Basically, if you can't have them, then nobody else should either?


That's not it at all. The solution is to have the NMs and the special rare items accessible to people who don't want to sit around and compete for a claim for hours, because most people think it's stupid and boring.

Personally I was decked out, and I earned the moniker "+1" for all of the ridiculously good stuff I had. I didn't have a problem getting the great gear, but in retrospect I acknowledge that it was usually very boring.
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#66 Jul 08 2010 at 5:01 PM Rating: Decent
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The bottom line is that most people don't enjoy it. What I think personally really doesn't enter into it.


Your whole post again is bias and only talks about your point of view. Also the amount of people that like NM hunting are about the same amount that dislike it (if you notice people in the forum or how popular NM camping actually were). I'm not even talking about fafnir and stuff like that (that people felt obligated to camp), I'm talking about smaller NMs that people still camped regularly.

Quote:
As for making items unique and special, I have to wonder if some of you people have ever played video games? The way that you make something special, so that it's a trophy, is by making it something that's an accomplishment-- a challenge. There are only like a million examples of this.


It is an accomplishment to out-claim a person, then kill the NM, and actually get the drop. Not every single item that is good have to come from a end game event. NM hunting also had a lot of value because you didn't have to be max level to do it. There were popular NMs for any level range, which gave people something else to do besides level up.

Quote:
It should be an accomplishment because you killed the monster that others didn't. Not because you sat around for hours and claimed the monster (probably numerous times) that others didn't. I mean, read that aloud. It even sounds incredibly lame. Nobody is impressed by someone's claiming ability, or luckiness.


Once again just your personal bias remarks, who are you to tell people why there should or should not be an accomplishment. Just walking to a town for some people is an accomplishment for them. Just as claiming a mob, killing it and then getting the drop is also an accomplishment. It actually doesn't sound lame at all, and again is your personal feelings. If you don't like it, then you are not forced to camp NMs (as again I'm not talking about stuff like Fafnir/KB/Aspid), I'm talking about a lot of other NMs that people enjoyed camping. Whether you can't accept the fact or not, there was as many people that enjoyed to camp NMs with there time on the game, as people that didn't.

Quote:
Nobody wants their options to be:
A) Do something incredibly boring.
or
B) Don't get any of the good stuff in the game or fight the cool fights.


Once again your personal bias views is leaking all other this quote. First of all you don't want your options like that. Secondly, it isn't "incredibly boring" and there will be instanced content in the game as well. As mentioned there will be a mixture of content. Actually NM hunting is fun, interesting, and completely exciting, its on the other side of boring. That is my personal opinion, I think if I had to think of the player base as a whole, it would definitely be closer to the middle of our statements. As many people like it, as don't, the main reason people complain about it is drop rates, and not the design of it. I just like the drop rate because it keeps rare gear rare, and keeps the special feeling around the gear.

Quote:
It's terrible game design. Some of you like it, I get that. Please keep playing XI. Don't ask that 99% of players are punished for not liking something that is understandably unenjoyable.


Bias views again, and its sad that you can't understand how inaccurate every statement you say turns out to be. First of all its a successful game design, and second of all there WILL be a mixture of content. They have already said NMs will be back, so I think you can go cry now. Now which is it? Do some people like it or do 99% of people dont? Some is way higher then 1% of the player base, like I said over and over, as many people like it as don't. Telling us to keep playing FFXI makes no sense since this game is being made by the same people, AND they already said NMs will return (to what extent is to still be determined). However, me telling you to stay playing WoW makes more sense, because it has everything you like (all instanced content).

Everything about your post is bias, and you have absolutely no details to back up your false facts. You claim to speak for the majority of the player base, when I have played since ps2 release, and know how many people enjoy NM camping. Your view is skewed by the people you surrounded yourself with on the game, but that doesn't make it accurate by any account. As many friends as I had (which was a ton), I always got asked to camp NMs, and 99% of the time we had a wonderful time, laughing and talking while camping.



Edited, Jul 8th 2010 7:18pm by HocusP
#67Kachi, Posted: Jul 08 2010 at 5:07 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It's not my personal bias. It's demographic data.
#68 Jul 08 2010 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Basically any MNK who didn't spend millions on gear or camp the NMs themselves when they were a mere level 40 was considered a huge gimp.


Meh, most people were gimps because they chose to be... Yes, I'm looking at you, people with millions upon millions of gil, but are too stupid/lazy to actually outfit your job properly.
But ****, a Monk could do well easily with just a decent weapon and the right food (Don't even get me started on sushi at those levels...).
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#69 Jul 08 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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It's not my personal bias. It's demographic data.


Its no data, especially not out of the FFXI player base. Keep using imaginary numbers and believing it, because I'm done entertaining you.

Bottom line, NMs are back and not because I said so, but because the boss said so (SE). We can come back and revisit this topic once the game is out.
#70 Jul 08 2010 at 5:26 PM Rating: Decent
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There is nothing wrong with rarer drops being associated with an NM battle - the greater issue is the drop rate and the accessibility of participation for the larger server population.

So to give you a good example, think of Joyeuse and how the spawn time was long and the competition was hot (at least before the 2H updates). It's a great drop, it's rare/ex (so not tradeable unless you invite and merc the drop that way)...but unfortunately for those who couldn't time their schedules to the server's spawn windows, they had no chance of even trying to camp the mob.

For me, I would rather they made such NMs almost instant spawn after a defeat (even 15 minutes to half hour wouldn't be too bad), then tweak the battle difficulty/strategy so that it takes cooperation and some skill to win (this could be scaled up or down depending on party/alliance numbers).
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#71 Jul 08 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
It's not my personal bias. It's demographic data.

Otherwise, tl;dr.


Demographic data has an odd requirement to be called as such...DATA.

All you are giving is opinion and your supposition that people agree with you.
#72 Jul 08 2010 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
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It's an inaccurate assumption that I don't have data. I actually have quite a bit and it's rather strong. I'm actually not sure why even those of you who do like NM camping find it hard to believe at all.

Quote:
I'm done entertaining you.


You were never entertaining me. That's why I didn't bother to read your post. Well, not only that it's seldom entertaining, but also seldom insightful. I'm not trying to be a ****, but let's be clear about where you stand with me. After having read many of them, I don't value your opinions highly at all.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#73 Jul 08 2010 at 5:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Demographic data has an odd requirement to be called as such...DATA.

All you are giving is opinion and your supposition that people agree with you.


Exactly

Quote:
You were never entertaining me. That's why I didn't bother to read your post. Well, not only that it's seldom entertaining, but also seldom insightful. I'm not trying to be a ****, but let's be clear about where you stand with me. After having read many of them, I don't value your opinions highly at all.


I don't really care where I stand with you, it doesn't change the fact that you are just giving your opinion and not some form of general feeling.

#74 Jul 08 2010 at 6:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Missed the part where I said that I have data.

My post wasn't a very long read, so I assume you chose to ignore it.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#75 Jul 08 2010 at 6:41 PM Rating: Good
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As for making items unique and special, I have to wonder if some of you people have ever played video games? The way that you make something special, so that it's a trophy, is by making it something that's an accomplishment-- a challenge. There are only like a million examples of this. It should be an accomplishment because you killed the monster that others didn't. Not because you sat around for hours and claimed the monster (probably numerous times) that others didn't. I mean, read that aloud. It even sounds incredibly lame. Nobody is impressed by someone's claiming ability, or luckiness.


LMAO. Why dont you read this little part you wrote again.

Quote:
It should be an accomplishment because you killed the monster that others didn't.


Last time I checked killing an NM that others did not, either because they are unaware of where it is, or unable to claim it, or too unwilling to chill out in the same spot for a while to ever try and claim it, would fall right into your own idea of accomplishment. I mean simply put you killed it, others did not.

You seem like you have some super carebear idea of how challenges should occur in MMOs. You would love for things to be instanced so only you and your buddies can wind up killing said beast. Except then everyone else is able to as well since they can just hop in their own version of the instance. So then EVERYONE is killing the same mobs, and once again your little idea of what is an accomplishment falls apart again.

NM camping is truely harder and far more challenging to accomplish then some silly instanced boss fight that either never changes or changes very minute amounts. You get one chance every two, twenty-four or more hours to even try to kill it, only then to hope that the darn item drops. Not some instance where you can fail over and over again til you finally get it right all within the same evening. Is there more skill or cooperation or tactics involved in NM hunting? Not really, but you certainly need certain skills and tactics to claim an NM along with some luck.

To me it sounds like you enjoy playing on a PVE only WoW server where noone will every attack you and you can jump in as many predetermined instanced boss fights you like with zero competition from others and just go on your merry way. Where just about everyone else has the exact same gear as you, that has the same skill/time/guildmates to carry people, that you do. Sound Fun? Or Unique? Or Special? Not here.

I know that for me NM camping was quite fun when I played FFXI, I would not do it religiously or anything but it was quite fun to every once and a while hop into the Dunes and try to snag the Emp. In between spawn windows I would go off and throw cures on groups or snag monsters away from fleeing lowbies and actually had a great time and met some cool people doing that. Also one of my most exciting memories from the game was when two of my LS mates snagged Behemoth and shouted in the LS for everyone able and willing to run their butts out to help, the anticipation of whether my LS mate would still be alive before I got there or not, knowing there were a hundred others all clamoring to reclaim it should he fail was really fun.

If there were no NMs to camp or only ones that I needed to kill once cause their drops are rare/ex I would have never had those fun experiences, and Im willing to bet many many more people who have stories very similar to mine that would never have happened had there been no NMs.

Even though I believe NMs should be a part of the game I do however realize that HOW they spawn in the game should be tweaked. They certainly need to occur in random areas of an entire zone, and also have random spawn timers, with shorter timers for weaker mobs and longer timers for Boss type NMs. The exact span of time I could care less about. Also they should continue to give great gear you can sell or use. I know when I played Leaping Boots and the Hairpin were luxuries and not expected of you to have BECAUSE they were so hard to get/buy, the second you make gear super easy to get is the second you are expected to have them.

The idea of running to an exp group or instance and stubbling across an NM that drops something useful/sellable seems like an awesome time dont you?

Point is having NMs in the game hurts noone, as long as the rewards giving are replaceable at end game(or at worst equal options are available). Having leaping boots while leveling up would be your choice to either spend the time or gil to use. You could very satisfactorily level up without them if you so choose.
#76Kachi, Posted: Jul 08 2010 at 6:59 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes, you killed it because they found it too boring to bother competing with you over it, or weren't as lucky as you, or weren't as good a claimer/botter as you. I can't tell if you're being a smartass or if you honestly missed my point. The point was that the challenge shouldn't be in getting to TRY to kill the monster. The monster itself should be the challenge.
#77 Jul 08 2010 at 7:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
Wanting that activity back is fine. Thinking that it should be the paradigm of endgame and the path to the best gear, is asking for a feature that most players will quickly hate.
This. The problem with FFXI was too much content was geared towards camping. Ground HNMs, Sky, Sea, it's all camping NMs. Majority of players have little desire of doing this over and over and over, much less the time to do so because of the ridiculous spawn conditions for most of them. Sure SE gave alternatives like Dynamis and Limbus but with the exception of Homam, the gear flat out sucked compared to the traditional NM drops. It wasn't until ToAU came out where SE finally realized most players didn't enjoy this. The number of hardcore players in endgame shells that did these kinds of activities paled in comparison to the players who did things like dynamis. Only reason Limbus wasn't as popular early on, was because of the huge requirements to even be able to do it. They started introducing things like Assault, Einherjar, and ZNMs that not only offered people comparable gear, but you could actually do according to your schedule rather than adjusting your life around the game's schedule.

I've camped many NMs in my time playing FFXI, and I will say nothing felt more satisfying than the day I took my first steps in Sea. That was truly a huge accomplishment in my mind and took much more work, skill, time and patience than any NM I've ever killed. The only excitement I ever got out of NM killing was when I was able to solo ones on BST that would kill entire parties of the same level as me. I'll admit those kills felt great. Open world NMs definitely have a place in the game, but the majority of players do not want them turning into the prominent activity as it was in FFXI.
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#78 Jul 09 2010 at 12:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes, you killed it because they found it too boring to bother competing with you over it, or weren't as lucky as you, or weren't as good a claimer/botter as you. I can't tell if you're being a smartass or if you honestly missed my point. The point was that the challenge shouldn't be in getting to TRY to kill the monster. The monster itself should be the challenge.

The other stuff was tl;dr.

Look, I'm really not going to argue with people who liked NM camping over this. Ask yourself how many people on your server regularly camped NMs. Did you never have trouble getting people to show up for an NM? How many endgame shells that did regular camping were there? Even among XI players, it was something of a niche activity, and many of the people who did it only did so because they wanted the money or loot. The enjoyment most people did get out of it was just the relief of it finally being over when they got what they wanted.

Wanting that activity back is fine. Thinking that it should be the paradigm of endgame and the path to the best gear, is asking for a feature that most players will quickly hate.


Ok sorry since you seem unable to read a few paragraphs Ill try to keep it short enough for your attention span since I already answered the concern you had with an example of what I feel could possibly work out.

Just make NMs have gear that is great to have leveling up, like leaping boots were, but that get replaced by early end game/max level gear(if not before then), make the items rare enough that people are not expected to obtain them and instead have the option to obtain/buy them if they like spending gil or feeling elite leveling up, to get a little leg up along the way.

Quote:
Yes, you killed it because they found it too boring to bother competing with you over it, or weren't as lucky as you, or weren't as good a claimer/botter as you. I can't tell if you're being a smartass or if you honestly missed my point. The point was that the challenge shouldn't be in getting to TRY to kill the monster. The monster itself should be the challenge.


So you think it makes sense that once you reach max level have any instance instantly available to you?? Because if you dont believe that then you still have to earn the right to even TRY killing the bosses in instances. So once again how is it any different then TRYing to kill an NM? Take sky for example, there were plenty of steps and keys to get before even being allowed to enter the zone, and then on top of that you needed to still get the right keys to Pop the monsters. Seems like too much work for you to even be able to TRY to kill these things? Should they get rid of those steps also because that is not a proper challenge?

Just running around telling people that noone likes NMs and that there should be none in xiv is pretty closeminded and well frankly wrong. Im sure that even you can admit that if it was possible to actually run into a random NM on the way to an exp party that drops a nice goodie it would be quite a nice little perk in the game would it not?
#79 Jul 09 2010 at 7:32 AM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't mind seeing the NM scene shaken up a bit compared to what we saw in FFXI. Having rare monsters that roam the world can be exciting, and I think the most exciting part about NMs for many was running into them unexpectedly. To take that idea further, what if a NM could spawn anywhere in an entire region? This would make their appearance truly rare and unexpected, and give more people a shot at finding them, rather than just seasoned NM campers. Something like this sounds better to me personally than the infamous lottery pops and timed spawns we saw all over FFXI. It probably wouldn't be good news for people who enjoy camping NMs, although it seems to me that most FFXI players who genuinely enjoy the concept of camping/waiting for hours for a monster to spawn are in the minority. Most people I know disliked camping NMs but did it anyway for the rewards, simply accepting that it was a part of the game.

As for end game, I'd like to see primary end game content being instanced, rather than focused on world pops. Instanced content means less waiting around (compared to camping), allows us to play on our own time, cannot be monopolized, and doesn't call for the type of competition and botting that we saw with ground kings in FFXI. I find it preferable in just about every way.

Edited, Jul 9th 2010 9:33am by Susanoh
#80 Jul 09 2010 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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I would be all for having pain-in-the-neck NM hunting again if it was completely optional. And by that I mean, they need to not drop top tier gear that everyone wants. NMs should have a 100% drop rate for completely cosmetic items (untradeable), or some sort of "badge of honor" item that you can show off so everyone knows you successfully hunted the mark. Hunting a NM should basically just be an achievement, a satisfying personal goal that lets you show other people just how skilled/lucky you are, nothing more.

Leave the high end gear and low drop rates for tough, instanced boss fights. Something that everyone can fairly attempt, where success is determined by how well you play, not how skilled you are at camping and taking claims.
#81 Jul 09 2010 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Put NMs in the game, but don't put the end-all-be-all gear on them. Make them simply a trophy kill.

I agree with this some sort of way, I think it's fine to put some top gears on the NMs/Kings, but just a little part of them will be fit in perfectly. I will like the idea that players have to be co-op and really stick together to fight what they have to fight, showing the teamwork, playing their roles correctly then get their own rewards, I think this will come more naturally and fairly.
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#82 Jul 09 2010 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
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Put NMs in the game, but don't put the end-all-be-all gear on them. Make them simply a trophy kill.


I have to say, this is probably the best solution. Forget the good stats, they should put items on NM's that have a unique appearance so that you can show them off around town. This way no one feels like the have to camp the NM to not be considered gimp, yet for people like me who like camping NM's for the challenge/bragging/trophy/orwhatever we get something that we can sport and show the world what we accomplished.

This is why I loved wearing around my Zoolander and Rain hat. They were fairly useless for the most part, but when you wore them you stood out from the guy who was wearing a 10k hat he got at the auction house.

The key, of course, is making them visually different in appearance.

#83 Jul 09 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok sorry since you seem unable to read a few paragraphs Ill try to keep it short enough for your attention span since I already answered the concern you had with an example of what I feel could possibly work out.


When you start off your reply with either being a smartass, or not being able to understand what you're replying to (still not sure which), it doesn't give me much incentive to actually listen to you.

Quote:
Just make NMs have gear that is great to have leveling up, like leaping boots were, but that get replaced by early end game/max level gear(if not before then), make the items rare enough that people are not expected to obtain them and instead have the option to obtain/buy them if they like spending gil or feeling elite leveling up, to get a little leg up along the way.


That'd be absolutely fine. It's not what the people I've been talking to in this thread have been asking for at all, though.

Quote:
So you think it makes sense that once you reach max level have any instance instantly available to you?? Because if you dont believe that then you still have to earn the right to even TRY killing the bosses in instances. So once again how is it any different then TRYing to kill an NM? Take sky for example, there were plenty of steps and keys to get before even being allowed to enter the zone, and then on top of that you needed to still get the right keys to Pop the monsters. Seems like too much work for you to even be able to TRY to kill these things? Should they get rid of those steps also because that is not a proper challenge?


There's a huge difference between prerequisites like story progression and level requirements, and outright competition bottlenecking. Put it to you this way, RMT couldn't really stop you from getting access to sky. For a long time they could make it an incredible headache for you to get to fight Byakko.
Quote:

Just running around telling people that noone likes NMs and that there should be none in xiv is pretty closeminded and well frankly wrong. Im sure that even you can admit that if it was possible to actually run into a random NM on the way to an exp party that drops a nice goodie it would be quite a nice little perk in the game would it not?


By this point it's clear that you should read what you're replying to more carefully and not leap to assumptions. I never said that no one likes NMs. I never said anything like that.

Unfortunately the reality is that as long as there are open world NMs with desirable drops that don't drop a lot, whether they're random or not, it will be bad. There will be lots of people who want to fight them and get their drops that won't have a chance to because of all the competition from other players and if tradeable, RMT (and if not tradeable, then it takes away from the in-game economy.)

There are solutions to problems like these, but you have to take player psychology into account when finding these solutions.
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#84 Jul 10 2010 at 1:07 AM Rating: Good
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(and if not tradeable, then it takes away from the in-game economy.)



How?

If a person is going to the AH, or whatever it will be, but they don't have the option to buy a NM drop, then what will they buy? Maybe, things made by crafters? Increasing the demand for crafted equipment can only help crafters, which helps the economy.

I don't see that as a bad thing in any way.




The NMs are evil! No they're not! Argument is pointless at this point anyways. We all know they're going to be in the game. We just don't know how yet. I'm satisfied for now.
#85 Jul 10 2010 at 2:08 AM Rating: Decent
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...you didn't play XI maybe?

Having R/EX equipment that's any good doesn't in any way whatsoever benefit crafters. It only hurts them. Alternatives to tradeable/crafted equipment only decrease demand for them. There's no room for discussion there, I don't think.

No one is saying NMs are bad though. Everyone likes NMs. It's just how the NMs should be implemented that people disagree on.
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Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

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#86 Jul 10 2010 at 4:22 AM Rating: Decent
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I did play XI, albeit several years ago.

You're not wrong but that's not what I meant.

Besides, we're talking about XIV not XI.

If a person is going to go to the AH, without looking anywhere else, they won't have an option to buy rare/ex equipment because you can't. They would have a choice between crafted items and normal dropped items. Usually, and hopefully with XIV, crafted items are superior to the average dropped item.

In a situation where there are viable options besides NM drops, and we know some people don't like camping NMs, some people are likely to go for the crafted item. If it's a choice between buying a crafted item and hunting a rare mob, 99% (your data) of people would rather buy the crafted item. I'd say that's pretty good for crafters.
#87 Jul 10 2010 at 4:24 AM Rating: Decent
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By the way,


Quote:
No one is saying NMs are bad though. Everyone likes NMs. It's just how the NMs should be implemented that people disagree on.




This is what I've been saying for the entire duration of this thread. You still disagreed with me.
#88 Jul 10 2010 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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Nalamwen wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
30m-1hr spawn times.
100% drop rate.
Rare/Ex would make me happy.


If the battles are challenging, I could deal with this.


I could also handle this, but...

Quote:

Its no longer special anymore if every single person on the server has it.


I hope they can think of a way around this. If everyone can get it, it's not the best of the best anymore. It's standard and becomes required. Everyone would be required to have it as soon as they get to the level or skill level required to equip it.


Rare things should stay rare. It should be a bonus to have it. You see a player in your squad has "Super Cape of Awesomeness" it should be "Wow nice cape man".

In the instance that everyone is easily able to get the "Super Cape of Awesomeness", and someone shows up to your squad without it. You know there will be those people, "Aw man this guy's a noob he doesn't have the cape, kick him and get someone else". Not everyone is like that, but many are.

So the question is, how can they make it easy to claim with high drop rates on Rare/Ex drops, while still not making it so easy that everyone has it?


So yeah I contradicted myself in the same post. Guess some people are hard to please, sheesh.



I think that it can be achieved if the battle itself is really challenging. You should have Super Cape of Awesomeness if you're skilled enough to take down the big baddy holding on to it. The problem now is that only people who have a million hours every day to play the game are the ones that can have Super Cape of Awesomeness as opposed to people who are skilled enough to defeat the monster. If only 10% of the population has Super Cape of Awesomeness, it shouldn't be because it has a 10% drop rate, it should be because only 10% of the population were able to take down the monster.
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#89 Jul 10 2010 at 8:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Actually, I just had an idea.... what if there was a way to keep the luck factor but not make it hopeless?

So let's say that the monster that you kill DOESN'T drop super cape of awesomeness... He drops.... uh.... lets go with dragon scales...
And theres an NPC (quest time!) that needs those dragon scales. .... 500 points worth of dragon scales. And that NPC has the Super Cape of Awesomeness.

If you're SUPER lucky... the monster drops a Perfect Dragon Scale... worth the automatic 500 points. But thats INSANELY Rare...
More likely to drop but still pretty darn Rare, the Shiny Dragon Scale... worth 100 points.
Most likely to drop is the Common Dragon Scale, worth 25 points.
And sometimes just to mix things up a bit, the Broken Dragon Scale worth a measely 5 points.

That way, all the unlucky people who have to go like 0/50 on an NM, will now have a point where even if all of their efforts were the worst ever, the sum of their efforts will start to add up, and its not all for nothing.
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#90 Jul 10 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I think that it can be achieved if the battle itself is really challenging. You should have Super Cape of Awesomeness if you're skilled enough to take down the big baddy holding on to it. The problem now is that only people who have a million hours every day to play the game are the ones that can have Super Cape of Awesomeness as opposed to people who are skilled enough to defeat the monster. If only 10% of the population has Super Cape of Awesomeness, it shouldn't be because it has a 10% drop rate, it should be because only 10% of the population were able to take down the monster.



This would be ok if it were limited. I mean, for me, the whole point of having NMs as an alternative to big raids is just that, the big part. I can successfully hunt a NM with one or two friends. If the mob is so strong that only 10% of the population can take it down, that means that only high end people in a 18 man squad can do it. (18 being the current max for a group in XIV). I want some things that I can solo or do with small groups that still give good rewards.

However, I'm not opposed to having a few of these types in the game. As an example I'll use a mob from the game I'm currently playing. It's even more extreme than what you suggest. It's called the Harpy Wraith. It takes a minimum of 50 players to take down and that's only if all 50 players are near the level cap. In most cases it takes far more than that.




Quote:
Actually, I just had an idea.... what if there was a way to keep the luck factor but not make it hopeless?

So let's say that the monster that you kill DOESN'T drop super cape of awesomeness... He drops.... uh.... lets go with dragon scales...
And theres an NPC (quest time!) that needs those dragon scales. .... 500 points worth of dragon scales. And that NPC has the Super Cape of Awesomeness.

If you're SUPER lucky... the monster drops a Perfect Dragon Scale... worth the automatic 500 points. But thats INSANELY Rare...
More likely to drop but still pretty darn Rare, the Shiny Dragon Scale... worth 100 points.
Most likely to drop is the Common Dragon Scale, worth 25 points.
And sometimes just to mix things up a bit, the Broken Dragon Scale worth a measely 5 points.

That way, all the unlucky people who have to go like 0/50 on an NM, will now have a point where even if all of their efforts were the worst ever, the sum of their efforts will start to add up, and its not all for nothing.



This. That, I actually love.

Although, once you got the 500 Dragon Scale points, what would you do with the left overs? Silly question I know. You probably wouldn't give a **** about them after you got the Super Cape of Awesomeness.

#91 Jul 10 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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If a person is going to go to the AH, without looking anywhere else, they won't have an option to buy rare/ex equipment because you can't. They would have a choice between crafted items and normal dropped items. Usually, and hopefully with XIV, crafted items are superior to the average dropped item.

In a situation where there are viable options besides NM drops, and we know some people don't like camping NMs, some people are likely to go for the crafted item. If it's a choice between buying a crafted item and hunting a rare mob, 99% (your data) of people would rather buy the crafted item. I'd say that's pretty good for crafters.


Unfortunately it generally doesn't work like that. People will find out where the best stuff is and go get it. I was a huge crafter in XI myself. Maybe I benefited somewhat as a crafter from people giving up on items that were too competitive and just grabbed something on the AH, but considering nearly all crafters are combat classes first, and at the very least "pure" crafters are in the extreme minority, it's not in any way a good trade off. It hurts the average player far more than it benefits crafters. Saying it benefits crafters is a tiny sliver of a silver lining against an F5 tornado cloud.

And don't misunderstand-- just because people don't like camping NMs doesn't mean they won't do it anyway. Extrinsic rewards will motivate people to do things-- they're just not fun (just like people will work for money). A lot of players will set goals, and even if they're ridiculously boring, they will be too determined for their own good to abandon that silly goal.

Quote:
So let's say that the monster that you kill DOESN'T drop super cape of awesomeness... He drops.... uh.... lets go with dragon scales...
And theres an NPC (quest time!) that needs those dragon scales. .... 500 points worth of dragon scales. And that NPC has the Super Cape of Awesomeness.


I don't think a token system is bad-- it can help even out the luck of the inevitable times when a person finds themselves at the *** end of the bell curve. But I think it would be better if the game were less like a casino and more like a game of improving your monster killing abilities. There should generally be a lot less luck involved, and if there is going to be a high luck factor, at least make it require luck in killing the NM.

In XI, you're basically a vulture. You're just waiting for your easy prey to appear so that you can swoop down on it before the other buzzards, but you know that it's not going to put up any real fight.
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Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#92 Jul 10 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
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The whole NM hunting/drop debate is very tricky if your SE. On one hand you have people who loved the FF XI style of NM hunting, and then those who hated it.

I was indifferant really. It was okay till it became a second job just to try and get said item so people would actually want to party with you. I would be all for NM's droping good gear, but nothing that you get at level 30, being best till level cap/end game. If an NM drops a really good piece of gear it shouldn't be so over powering that there isn't an equal piece of gear within 5-10 levels.


Multiple ways to obtain the gear NMs drop would be good with me too. The questing part of camping the NM sounds okay, but I would perfer more of an Instanced style fight. Something that would be similar to how dynamis fights worked. You go in and you have a horde of monsters to fight off with the big boss at the end, with the same drops and drop rate as the open world NM. You would have to farm multiple access items for the instance before you go in. This would give an alternitive to camping against everyone, and would in my opinion be just as much work considering you have to go through such lenghts to access it.
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#93 Jul 10 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

I don't think a token system is bad-- it can help even out the luck of the inevitable times when a person finds themselves at the *** end of the bell curve. But I think it would be better if the game were less like a casino and more like a game of improving your monster killing abilities. There should generally be a lot less luck involved, and if there is going to be a high luck factor, at least make it require luck in killing the NM.


I'm perfectly fine with luck being a factor still in a lot of things. I (a lot of other people too) like things that are not predictable, it adds to the rush and excitement. If you weren't able to lose in gambling, nobody would gamble. The risk of losing or not getting what you want, adds to the thrill, even though you would prefer to win every time. I'm not opposed to a token system for stuff as well. I think it should have a mixture of systems in the game for different things.

Quote:
In XI, you're basically a vulture. You're just waiting for your easy prey to appear so that you can swoop down on it before the other buzzards, but you know that it's not going to put up any real fight.


This only happens late in the games life, and I blame SE for not tweaking the bosses as players grew and got better with gear and skill. I remember a time when only 3-4 LS's on the server could kill Fafnir, and even then it was a hard time. This was when the JP LS's use to try to kite fafnir and didn't understand why they usually got wiped out by spike flail.

I mean small NMs like Roc, and Serket use to own 90% of the linkshells. They were actually big NMs back in the day. As the game get older, people begin to gain more skill. Also gear and skills begin to get better, and stuff that use to be epic fights (like serket) turns into a cake walk. Now even Nidhogg is a huge cake walk type of fight and has been for years.

I think the solution for this is for SE to tweak the big NMs. They could easily make Fafnir be more exciting by simply making him immune to sleep or giving him a Aspid like regen while hes sleep. Now a days (and for a long while), anybody can beat Fafnir because they know if they get into trouble they can simple sleep him and recover. If he starts to spam too much you can simply sleep him. That shouldn't be the only tweak but I think SE should tweak NMs a lot just to make them fresh and to counteract the better gear and skill level of players as the game gets older.

I do see negatives if you keep tweaking the NMs though. Maybe you make it too hard for the new players to end game to ever kill it. Or, maybe its unfair that one person got his drops before they tweaked said monster, and made him harder. I mean but if your fighting something for a long time, your eventually going to get better gear and more experience at it. Which in return will make it a cake walk eventually if it isn't tweaked.

Edited, Jul 10th 2010 5:25pm by HocusP
#94 Jul 10 2010 at 9:02 PM Rating: Decent
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You're still missing my point.


Quote:
People will find out where the best stuff is and go get it.



Super Cape of Awesomeness drops from NM X and provides +5 str.


Cape of Sweet Tailor Skill requires a craft to make and provides +5 str.

The NM drop is Rare/Ex meaning you can't buy it. The crafted cape you can buy or make yourself. If you don't like NM hunting which are you likely to choose?


Quote:
I was a huge crafter in XI myself


Again, we're talking about a completely different game. FFXIV.


If they provide alternatives to NM drops that are comparable to the point of any difference meaning nil, then you don't have to hunt the NM if you don't want to. I, however, still have that option because I enjoy it.

You could argue that people would still hunt the NM because they can get the same stat increase for free that way. Well, they could farm the mats required to make the crafted cape if they so choose. Maybe they have to pay someone for their time in making it, but they still get what they want without spending time in an activity they don't enjoy.

Now that we have(theoretically) alternatives to NM hunting that provide equal or near to benefits, there's no reason for people that don't like the activity to participate. If they still feel the need to do something they find "incredibly boring" then that's their fault and I don't feel the least bit sorry for them.

#95 Jul 10 2010 at 9:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm perfectly fine with luck being a factor still in a lot of things. I (a lot of other people too) like things that are not predictable, it adds to the rush and excitement. If you weren't able to lose in gambling, nobody would gamble.

Except that we're talking about gambling where you always win, but the reward remains the same. Of course everyone would gamble under those circumstances. I don't know if I feel NMs should have a 100% drop rate, at least not all of them, but it needs to be a **** of a lot higher than <25%. That's just plain frustrating and unproductive, especially when paired with a two hour respawn timer, which also needs to change.
#96 Jul 10 2010 at 10:42 PM Rating: Good
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**** needs to be balanced overall.

If it's poppable, the drop rate doesn't need to be that high.

If it's claimable on a short respawn timer, an average drop rate isn't too bad.

If it's claimable and has a long respawn timer, the drop rate should be higher.

As an example, Brown belt.

Dodo and Nue both have moderate drop rates. Morbolger has a much longer respawn time (21-24 time) and is 100%.

Honestly, I don't think it's too unreasonable for an NM that only has one worthwhile drop, that only spawns once a day, to have a 100% drop.

Conversely, if the respawn is only 15-30 mins, or is poppable, a lower drop rate is fine.
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#97 Jul 11 2010 at 1:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Super Cape of Awesomeness drops from NM X and provides +5 str.


Cape of Sweet Tailor Skill requires a craft to make and provides +5 str.

The NM drop is Rare/Ex meaning you can't buy it. The crafted cape you can buy or make yourself. If you don't like NM hunting which are you likely to choose?


To that point-- that's fine. Most of the people here defending the old NM system don't want that. What they want is the NM cape to give +7 or even +10.

Now, I say that's fine, but it's only fine in that one regard. There's still a major problem with that idea: people want to kill monsters. They want to kill the unique monsters, and the biggest, baddest monsters. It's not just about the loot, but access to the battles, too. If given the choice, almost everyone would rather earn the +5 cape by killing a cool monster rather than farming some gil and buying it off the AH. That's pretty much the whole point of the game! Epic and fun battles!

And that's why the game should have NMs, but they shouldn't be NMs that people have to compete desperately over. Making it mildly competitive is fine, such that every once in a while you have to compete with another person or guild, but XI was just plain absurd.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#98 Jul 11 2010 at 1:17 AM Rating: Good
Mikhalia wrote:
sh*t needs to be balanced overall.

If it's poppable, the drop rate doesn't need to be that high.

If it's claimable on a short respawn timer, an average drop rate isn't too bad.

If it's claimable and has a long respawn timer, the drop rate should be higher.

As an example, Brown belt.

Dodo and Nue both have moderate drop rates. Morbolger has a much longer respawn time (21-24 time) and is 100%.

Honestly, I don't think it's too unreasonable for an NM that only has one worthwhile drop, that only spawns once a day, to have a 100% drop.

Conversely, if the respawn is only 15-30 mins, or is poppable, a lower drop rate is fine.


**** you Mikhalia, stop being so level headed! Smiley: lol Pretty much this.




As far as the whole NM drop vs Crafted Item debate that seems to have started, I think that overall, they should be mostly equal with a bit more leaning towards stronger NM drops. That doesn't mean both can't be awesome. Just do like XI and toss in rare materials on NMs.
#99 Jul 11 2010 at 3:15 AM Rating: Decent
3 posts
Haha NM hunting oh man those were the days. Leaping lizzy, Valkurm Emperor and Meddgie the punisher or something haha *GO old school camping*
As much as I enjoyed camping I am not hoping that they'll come back in FFXIV because I know I won't be able to resist not camping them hahaha. I don't want to spend hours and hours camping for something again x.x
I'm glad there are so many people who enjoy "camping" the thrill of seeing the NM on your widescan is just sooo... don't know how to express that feeling haha
#100 Jul 13 2010 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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3,178 posts
A great thread with alot of well thought out posts.

Some snippet of greatness here are: "...when a person finds themselves at the ***-end of the bell curve." Yeah, we've all been there, no?

And: "That way, all the unlucky people who have to go like 0/50 on an NM, will now have a point where even if all of their efforts were the worst ever, the sum of their efforts will start to add up, and its not all for nothing."

The token system for obtaining at least a peice of loot in the right direction is excellent!

But the winner of /thread goes to the "Super Cape of Awesomeness" which should clearly be an actual piece of loot. With a name like that, I'd go with +5 to all stats.

Edit: Attempting to learn how to quote correctly.

Edited, Jul 13th 2010 6:06pm by RufuSwho
#101 Jul 13 2010 at 5:35 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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97 posts
Hehe almost a week later my thread is still alive :D lets get more opinions on NM hunting in FFXIV, Should it be introduced or not?! I always liked it because it gave you the opportunity to gain gear for future classes you wished to lvl. I collected tons of gear for my brd on my galka mnk (yes i was a galka brd :P) and it helped alot while lvling and i enjoyed camping the NMs for every piece of gear i owned except hoo mjuu, he could be poisoned with anthrax for all i care... Lets get some opinions on what you guys think about the Treasure Hunter trait being introduced and what class it might apply to.
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