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Retainer Overcrowding?Follow

#1 Jul 07 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I am a fan of retainers. I think they are a great alternative to having to create extra characters to hold items.

I am worried that since retainers can be set up as bazaars around town, there are going to be some overcrowding issues. This might become worse if players with multiple retainers are able to set all of them up at the same time.

I've browsed many sources, but I haven't found anything that addresses this issue.

Has anyone heard or have opinions about this?
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#2 Jul 07 2010 at 9:32 PM Rating: Good
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I tend to agree. One of the more annoying aspects of FFXI was the bazaar, not only for the fact that they pretty much crowded the more populated parts of cities but also you have to go to each one in order to see what was there. Even though I like the idea of a bazaar I've just never seen it done in a way that doesn't waste your time.
#3 Jul 07 2010 at 9:33 PM Rating: Good
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My understanding, or maybe assumption, is that the retainers won't be physically present like a bazaar. You'll go into a certain area and be able to browse all of the merchandise like an auction house.
#4 Jul 07 2010 at 9:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
My understanding, or maybe assumption, is that the retainers won't be physically present like a bazaar. You'll go into a certain area and be able to browse all of the merchandise like an auction house.


That sounds reasonable to me.

However, if people are allowed to search for specific items, only the people selling things for a price lower than everyone else will really succeed. It would be like the AH from FFXI except you would be able to see the prices that the sellers listed their items at.
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#5 Jul 07 2010 at 9:52 PM Rating: Good
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ShockTopMagic wrote:
Quote:
My understanding, or maybe assumption, is that the retainers won't be physically present like a bazaar. You'll go into a certain area and be able to browse all of the merchandise like an auction house.


That sounds reasonable to me.

However, if people are allowed to search for specific items, only the people selling things for a price lower than everyone else will really succeed. It would be like the AH from FFXI except you would be able to see the prices that the sellers listed their items at.


Honestly, XI is the only AH I've personally seen that -doesn't- list prices. I've gotten used to it over the years, but most other AH systems list how many are for sale, and the prices of each.
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#6 Jul 07 2010 at 9:56 PM Rating: Good
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Quote from an interview on that Jeuxonline site.

Quote:
We discovered the Retainer service, it is possible to place it in the second covered market (first being dedicated to NPC sellers), and they will sell all your goods even when offline, with a 24 hours restriction for the beta. And to those who still doubted it, SE guy confirmed there won't be an integrated Auction House.


So as of the moment there definitely doesn't appear to be an AH system planned.
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#7 Jul 07 2010 at 10:18 PM Rating: Good
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Mimedestroyer wrote:
Quote from an interview on that Jeuxonline site.

Quote:
We discovered the Retainer service, it is possible to place it in the second covered market (first being dedicated to NPC sellers), and they will sell all your goods even when offline, with a 24 hours restriction for the beta. And to those who still doubted it, SE guy confirmed there won't be an integrated Auction House.


So as of the moment there definitely doesn't appear to be an AH system planned.


This is one of those things that will either go REALLY well or REALLY bad.

Especially since having an AH is a standard of MMORPGs, and the following exchange...

"Where's the AH?"
"There isn't one; you have to use retainers."
"WTF That's dumb"

Will be taking place on an hourly basis until people get used to it.
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#8 Jul 07 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Upper Jeuno used to suck *** with all the bazaars... And that was with an AH.
Please, please let there be an auction house.
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#9 Jul 07 2010 at 11:03 PM Rating: Default
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Sefalicious wrote:
Upper Jeuno used to suck *** with all the bazaars... And that was with an AH.
Please, please let there be an auction house.


Well, it was stated that they confirmed there will not be one.
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#10 Jul 07 2010 at 11:07 PM Rating: Good
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Mimedestroyer wrote:
Quote from an interview on that Jeuxonline site.

Quote:
We discovered the Retainer service, it is possible to place it in the second covered market (first being dedicated to NPC sellers), and they will sell all your goods even when offline, with a 24 hours restriction for the beta. And to those who still doubted it, SE guy confirmed there won't be an integrated Auction House.


So as of the moment there definitely doesn't appear to be an AH system planned.


I think that's the quote that made it sound like they were going in the direction I imagined. Retainers set up shop in stalls in a designated market area. I'm almost positive they'll make this a searchable database. They would be insane not to.

Maybe bazaars will even be searchable from anywhere in the world. That's something a lot of us wished for in FFXI.
#11 Jul 07 2010 at 11:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Seems like there will be instanced marketplaces where people set up their retainers. Hopefully they'll be searchable.
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#12 Jul 07 2010 at 11:49 PM Rating: Good
Borkachev wrote:
Mimedestroyer wrote:
Quote from an interview on that Jeuxonline site.

Quote:
We discovered the Retainer service, it is possible to place it in the second covered market (first being dedicated to NPC sellers), and they will sell all your goods even when offline, with a 24 hours restriction for the beta. And to those who still doubted it, SE guy confirmed there won't be an integrated Auction House.


So as of the moment there definitely doesn't appear to be an AH system planned.


I think that's the quote that made it sound like they were going in the direction I imagined. Retainers set up shop in stalls in a designated market area. I'm almost positive they'll make this a searchable database. They would be insane not to.

Maybe bazaars will even be searchable from anywhere in the world. That's something a lot of us wished for in FFXI.


That's what I'm really hoping for too.
#13 Jul 08 2010 at 1:12 AM Rating: Good
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I'm sure I read that the place in which the retainers are set up is actually instanced, and I don't think it'll be like say Aion, where you literally sit your character down with a little flag indicating the store.

It's probably already been said, but its probably going to be a searchable AH type interface and the retainers are literally the space in which you put things up for sale.

I do hope they do more than that, I hope they are also actual storage for items you don't wish to sell!
#14 Jul 08 2010 at 1:28 AM Rating: Good
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I was wondering something similar.

If they're going to set it up so that you can search all retainers from one npc/counter/vendor, it just might be a sort of AH in itself.

If you're buying, you talk to the counter and search for what you want. The listings of that item appear and you make a selection.

If you're selling, you talk to your retainer. Maybe the same npc/counter you talk to when you're buying? Move items from you bag to your retainer and set a price.

If that's somewhat close, maybe they're allowing the purchase of extra retainers as a way to increase your "AH" slots. I hear there was a demand for that in XI.


My questions though are, if there's no option to search retainers anywhere in the world, will we be able to display our retainer as we travel the open world? Will people be able to inspect us and open our retainer to see what we have?


*edit*

Quote:
It's probably already been said, but its probably going to be a searchable AH type interface and the retainers are literally the space in which you put things up for sale.

I do hope they do more than that, I hope they are also actual storage for items you don't wish to sell!


Yeah, what he said.

Edited, Jul 8th 2010 3:29am by Nalamwen
#15 Jul 08 2010 at 2:10 AM Rating: Good
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I think it would be pretty spiffy if there was a way to search the entire world for an item, and have the game spit out a list of Retainers selling this item, their price, and their location.

That would be pretty badass.
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#16 Jul 08 2010 at 2:14 AM Rating: Excellent
Mikhalia wrote:
I think it would be pretty spiffy if there was a way to search the entire world for an item, and have the game spit out a list of Retainers selling this item, their price, and their location.

That would be pretty badass.



SWG did this and it was indeed badass.
#17 Jul 08 2010 at 7:25 AM Rating: Default
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There is no Auction House, only retainers?
#18 Jul 08 2010 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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Sefalicious wrote:
Upper Jeuno used to suck *** with all the bazaars... And that was with an AH.
Please, please let there be an auction house.


If there's a single NPC that lets you browse almost like an AH, then it won't be so bad.

But if there are a million NPCs like

Xoiewghertye's Retainer

Standing around, then yeah, it will suck ***.

I'm wondering exactly how they intend to do this... if it is a single NPC that you can browse items... then why not just make a **** AH? Same thing lol. And what of fees/taxes/etc? We still get those when selling things from Retainers?
#19 Jul 08 2010 at 8:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
And what of fees/taxes/etc?


Maybe we'll have to declare income yearly...and then have auditors. Then I could do my real life job, in game as well, LOL
#20 Jul 08 2010 at 8:15 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't want a searchable database for retainers. It would be just like an AH system, only without the benefit of instant and convenient delivery.

But most importantly, a searchable database means the thrills of going from shop to shop looking for good deals are gone. Don't you love the feeling of excitement when you open up a person's bazaar, hoping to make off with an extremely cheap item before others see and snag it up? With a searchable database well-priced items will be gone in half a second after it's put up. Every seller will be able to see every other seller's prices and put his items up a for a little less. There is little to no more surprise to be had.

So please, don't do it SE.

Edited, Jul 8th 2010 10:16am by Wolfeinstein
#21 Jul 08 2010 at 8:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I don't want a searchable database for retainers. It would be just like an AH system, only without the benefit of instant and convenient delivery.

But most importantly, a searchable database means the thrills of going from shop to shop looking for good deals are gone. Don't you love the feeling of excitement when you open up a person's bazaar, hoping to make off with an extremely cheap item before others see and snag it up? With a searchable database well-priced items will be gone in half a second after it's put up. Every seller will be able to see every other seller's prices and put his items up a for a little less. There is little to no more surprise to be had.

So please, don't do it SE.


You know who can and will search every Bazaar/Retainer for low priced items if this is the ONLY system in place? RMT.

Therefore, please don't make this the ONLY system of buying and selling SE.

The way I see it, the RMT will abuse the system anyway, so at least make it easy for the real players. Don't make us walk from person to person wasting our time looking for one particular item that we need.
#22 Jul 08 2010 at 8:37 AM Rating: Good
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Just think of going person to person as farming. They hunted for em' you should put in some legwork too. Plus, isn't it exciiting to be browsing shops and see an item you may not have wanted and then succumbing to that impulse buy?!

I Mean, just imagine all the possibilities of Shop Names (assuming you can give it a name xD)like SephiCloudGogetaSSJ4's One Stop Wood Shop!

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#23 Jul 08 2010 at 8:49 AM Rating: Decent
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mpmaley wrote:
You know who can and will search every Bazaar/Retainer for low priced items if this is the ONLY system in place? RMT.

Therefore, please don't make this the ONLY system of buying and selling SE.

The way I see it, the RMT will abuse the system anyway, so at least make it easy for the real players. Don't make us walk from person to person wasting our time looking for one particular item that we need.

I don't like the idea of designing a game based around combating RMT. You make a game that is fun and take steps mitigating the RMT.

So what if RMT will go around looking at every shop? With no search function it's all fair game between I and the RMT crowd. Whoever spends more time and has more luck will come out on top. And this is true for other aspects of the game as well. Mining, harvesting, farming, etc...we always compete with them. Besides, I imagine bazaar shopping not a very good use of time for the RMT people as they prefer something more consistent.

Unlike you, I find walking from person to person looking for stuff very enjoyable. It's like playing slots.

With that said, I also like options and wish they would implement an AH in addition to the retainers. Sometimes I just want to buy something quick and the best way to do that is to hit the AH.
#24 Jul 08 2010 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Well we can agree to disagree then. When I walk into a casino and see people playing slots it's just a sea of mindless zombies to me.

As far as something better to do for RMT, they already patrol the AH. If there is NO AH, they will certainly patrol the retainers and try to monopolize certain items.

The big bonus out of this is that I see a central hub a better way to spend my time than needing to walk around checking possibly hundreds of people for an item I need. What if I need to get going to a raid and I want something quick? Having both is my most ideal setup.
#25 Jul 08 2010 at 9:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Just think of going person to person as farming. They hunted for em' you should put in some legwork too. Plus, isn't it exciiting to be browsing shops and see an item you may not have wanted and then succumbing to that impulse buy?!

I Mean, just imagine all the possibilities of Shop Names (assuming you can give it a name xD)like SephiCloudGogetaSSJ4's One Stop Wood Shop!


I'm going to put in my legwork when I do my own farming.

Exciting? Sure! Why can't we have both systems like in XI?

I just think it's very short sighted to only have Retainers and a bad game mechanic.
#26 Jul 08 2010 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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The best argument in my mind for having the retainer system over the AH system is the fact you know who you are buying from. If you want to help prevent RMT, then don't buy from RMT retainers.
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#27 Jul 08 2010 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
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The best argument in my mind for having the retainer system over the AH system is the fact you know who you are buying from. If you want to help prevent RMT, then don't buy from RMT retainers.


But how many of you guys really refuse to buy things from Walmart?
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#28 Jul 08 2010 at 9:49 AM Rating: Decent
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ShockTopMagic wrote:
Quote:
The best argument in my mind for having the retainer system over the AH system is the fact you know who you are buying from. If you want to help prevent RMT, then don't buy from RMT retainers.


But how many of you guys really refuse to buy things from Walmart?
I don't shop there. Wal-Mart sucks. I'd rather pay a couple bucks extra and not have to deal with that place.
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#29 Jul 08 2010 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't shop there. Wal-Mart sucks. I'd rather pay a couple bucks extra and not have to deal with that place.


The majority of Americans do though, as will the majority of the playerbase if it comes to that.
#30 Jul 08 2010 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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mpmaley wrote:
Quote:
I don't shop there. Wal-Mart sucks. I'd rather pay a couple bucks extra and not have to deal with that place.


The majority of Americans do though, as will the majority of the playerbase if it comes to that.
No they don't. They may have the largest market share (depends on what markets we're referring to as well), but by no means do the majority of Americans shop there. Maybe the majority of trashy people, sure. They have a stranglehold on that demographic.*

*I'm not saying everyone that shops at Wal-Mart is trashy by the way, but that is definitely where all the mouth breathers do their shopping. You don't see a website called peopleoftarget.com dedicated to making fun of them.

Edited, Jul 8th 2010 11:33am by Harri
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#31 Jul 08 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
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No they don't. They may have the largest market share (depends on what markets we're referring to as well), but by no means do the majority of Americans shop there. Maybe the majority of trashy people, sure. They have a stranglehold on that demographic.*

*I'm not saying everyone that shops at Wal-Mart is trashy by the way, but that is definitely where all the mouth breathers do their shopping.


Under half of the US population shops at Walmart each week so that's definitely not the majority.

However, from personal experience, the majority of college/grad students do visit Walmart consistently. The majority of MMORPG players are 20 - 30 years old which is roughly the same age spread.


http://dataforbreakfast.com/?p=107
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#32 Jul 08 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Plus Wal-Mart doesn't relate to RMT. The fact Wal-Mart exists doesn't have a detrimental effect on my life. They also aren't necessarily the cheapest in everything, they just have the perception of being the cheapest. Buying from RMT is more like buying a TV from the back of a truck that some guy stole.
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#33 Jul 08 2010 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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ShockTopMagic wrote:
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No they don't. They may have the largest market share (depends on what markets we're referring to as well), but by no means do the majority of Americans shop there. Maybe the majority of trashy people, sure. They have a stranglehold on that demographic.*

*I'm not saying everyone that shops at Wal-Mart is trashy by the way, but that is definitely where all the mouth breathers do their shopping.


Under half of the US population shops at Walmart each week so that's definitely not the majority.

However, from personal experience, the majority of college/grad students do visit Walmart consistently. The majority of MMORPG players are 20 - 30 years old which is roughly the same age spread.


http://dataforbreakfast.com/?p=107
Well that's because college students don't have a lot of money in real life. In a game like this though, many of them are millionaires. Like I said in the post above, shopping at Wal-Mart isn't like buying from criminals, which is what buying from RMT equates to in this fantasy world. Regardless, regular people are going to price their items competitively to whatever RMT is selling them for. If Dude A is selling item X for 1,001 gil while RMT guy is selling it for 995 and they are right next to each other, most people would buy from Dude A assuming they know the other guy is RMT.

Buying items off the AH for the lowest price is shopping at Wal-Mart. You got the best deal regardless of where the product came from. Buying from a retainer is getting it straight from the supplier and eliminating the middle man retailer.

Edited, Jul 8th 2010 11:43am by Harri
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#34 Jul 08 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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If Dude A is selling item X for 1,001 gil while RMT guy is selling it for 995 and they are right next to each other, most people would buy from Dude A assuming they know the other guy is RMT.


If player A is wanting to sell item X, and player B is selling item X for 1,000 gil, Player A is probably going to sell item X for 995 gil (for example). Because that happens, I don't always assume the cheapest item is from an RMT and will probably still buy the cheaper item.
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#35 Jul 08 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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ShockTopMagic wrote:
Quote:
If Dude A is selling item X for 1,001 gil while RMT guy is selling it for 995 and they are right next to each other, most people would buy from Dude A assuming they know the other guy is RMT.


If player A is wanting to sell item X, and player B is selling item X for 1,000 gil, Player A is probably going to sell item X for 995 gil (for example). Because that happens, I don't always assume the cheapest item is from an RMT and will probably still buy the cheaper item.
Well, if you don't KNOW that the guy is RMT, of course. But there were plenty of characters to be known RMT in FFXI, and word spreads pretty fast amongst players who they are. Not so much now, but years back there were some infamous characters running around before SE finally got around to actually doing a decent job banning them. Plus I simply like the fact I know who I'm buying from, regardless if they are RMT or not. Just so I can avoid giving my gil to someone who I know is an @#%^ or give the business to people I know.

Edited, Jul 8th 2010 2:05pm by Harri
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