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ranger ammoFollow

#1 Jul 08 2010 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
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i hope it won't be as expensive this time around
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#2 Jul 08 2010 at 7:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Didn't know that we had cheap items/weapons in FFXI.

Ranger had it bad but I would say that all of the jobs have had it bad at one time or another.
#3 Jul 08 2010 at 7:17 PM Rating: Good
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Replenish:
Invoke a blessing of renewal, consuming MP to replenish your projectiles to capacity.

I'm pretty sure it won't be that much of an issue.
#4 Jul 08 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Tazblackferret wrote:
i hope it won't be as expensive this time around


I hope that you don't need to stock ammo at all (though I doubt that's the case). Having to purchase and stock ammo, or god forbid, running out of ammo mid-party, is frustrating and tiresome...I say scrap it entirely. Make it so that you just have to purchase or quest for a "quiver" or "ammo box" for that particular ammo type, and then you have it for life, I say.

I know that it provides a way to get gil out of the world, and that it creates a need for crafters, but I just don't think those benefits outweigh the headaches. It's just one of those things where the fun factor should override other concerns.

Edited, Jul 8th 2010 9:21pm by Eske

Edited, Jul 8th 2010 9:21pm by Eske
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#5 Jul 09 2010 at 3:27 AM Rating: Decent
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It probably won't happen, but I would like to see a system where the base projectile are unlimited, but there are also upgraded versions available on the market.
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#6 Jul 09 2010 at 4:04 AM Rating: Good
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Eske wrote:
Tazblackferret wrote:
i hope it won't be as expensive this time around


I hope that you don't need to stock ammo at all (though I doubt that's the case). Having to purchase and stock ammo, or god forbid, running out of ammo mid-party, is frustrating and tiresome...I say scrap it entirely. Make it so that you just have to purchase or quest for a "quiver" or "ammo box" for that particular ammo type, and then you have it for life, I say.

I know that it provides a way to get gil out of the world, and that it creates a need for crafters, but I just don't think those benefits outweigh the headaches. It's just one of those things where the fun factor should override other concerns.

Edited, Jul 8th 2010 9:21pm by Eske

Edited, Jul 8th 2010 9:21pm by Eske


This for sure. I don't see any reason why one class should be singled out and have to pay huge amounts of ammo costs just to do what other classes do for free. Not only is it unfair, but it creates a situation where some people who would have loved to choose the job actually don't feel they can afford it and are as such prevented from playing as the class they want. Sure they can go farm for a month to then pick the class they want, but it shouldn't have to be that way.

Edited, Jul 9th 2010 6:04am by Belcrono
#7 Jul 09 2010 at 5:30 AM Rating: Default
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Yeah yeah we should streamline the game even more. Make fishing a one-click affair. Or better yet, get rid of the baits, too. It would be really bad if you run out of baits in the middle of a fishing trip. While we're at it, make food item last a month upon consumption because there's a chance it might wear off mid-fight and you don't have any more left. How crappy would that be? ****, we should be able to carry an infinite amount of items because, you know, your 80-slot storage can get full while you're farming. This is a game, don't make me prepare for anything!

Oh, don't forget about the cost! I love min-maxing and want to be one of the best, but I don't want to spend more than the average Joe. Make it cheap! No wait, don't make it cheap, as many more people will be able to do the same thing I do and I will no longer feel special!

#8 Jul 09 2010 at 10:09 AM Rating: Good
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Wolfeinstein wrote:
Yeah yeah we should streamline the game even more. Make fishing a one-click affair. Or better yet, get rid of the baits, too. It would be really bad if you run out of baits in the middle of a fishing trip. While we're at it, make food item last a month upon consumption because there's a chance it might wear off mid-fight and you don't have any more left. How crappy would that be? ****, we should be able to carry an infinite amount of items because, you know, your 80-slot storage can get full while you're farming. This is a game, don't make me prepare for anything!

Oh, don't forget about the cost! I love min-maxing and want to be one of the best, but I don't want to spend more than the average Joe. Make it cheap! No wait, don't make it cheap, as many more people will be able to do the same thing I do and I will no longer feel special!


That's a pretty fallacious argument. There are certainly aspects of the game which are an unnecessary hassle...to imply that one could do with some streamlining in no way implies the entire slippery slope here. I feel that this particular hangup stands in the way of a more enjoyable method.

If you can suggest why my particular suggestion would make the game less enjoyable, or provide a direct consequence that makes it unfeasible, then I'm all ears.
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#9 Jul 09 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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Replenish may help.

But doesn't MP not regen? You have to go somewhere to refill? Not sure.

You could always just buy the cheap-*** arrows. Bah, who am I kidding. RNG was expensive as ****. Also, hard on the storage space and Macro dependant!

Wait. *Tries to think of a job that was ~not~ macro dependant.*

*sigh*
#10 Jul 09 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I know they changed the ranger class when they made it so you had to stand at an actual range but when i leveled it that didnt matter and rangers dominated, i would easily put out as much damage as 2 normal players would in any fight, i always believed that having to pay for all those arrows and the invintory hassle was worth it to me. It was the price i had to pay for being a better class.
#11 Jul 09 2010 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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If my sleepy brain is still working properly at this hour, I think in one of the most recent interviews/news they stated that MP now regenerates like HP. Not sure though.

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#12 Jul 09 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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i dunno, I think ammo should still be a product that needs to be purchased, but it should be craftable in greater quantities. Instead of 33-99 at a time, shoot for 200-600 at a time. That would make it cheap enough where there's still a cost, but the cost is low.

At the same time, I did think it was rather unfair that certain jobs in FFXI (RNG, NIN, PUP) had to spend way more money than others to not be a waste of a party slot. It's not really an issue of "I don't want to have to spend a lot of money, and I want to be the best" but rather "I don't want to have to drain my wallet to perform on par to someone of another class who has to spend nothing to achieve the same result". The difference between a SAM/DRG and a RNG/NIN is that five hours later, the SAM/DRG is no poorer than he started, whereas the RNG/NIN has burned through probably 100k easy, and they both walk away with the same amount of XP at the end.

So I think it should be purchasable in concept, but would have no real problem if it was either **** cheap or was infinite.
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#13 Jul 09 2010 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
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calirockstar wrote:
I know they changed the ranger class when they made it so you had to stand at an actual range but when i leveled it that didnt matter and rangers dominated, i would easily put out as much damage as 2 normal players would in any fight, i always believed that having to pay for all those arrows and the invintory hassle was worth it to me. It was the price i had to pay for being a better class.


It wasn't so much the cost that was prohibitive to me. After all, I played a gun ranger back when nobody from NA could afford it at all. It's really about the hassle of having to constantly re-purchase boatloads of ammunition, which you burn through like its nothing. It wasn't uncommon for a great exp party to fold because I ran out of ammunition. And I was always sure to stay well-stocked.

I say make different ammunition types infinite, and make it so that they have to be quested or perhaps bought once. Make the cost high, or the quest difficult. That's all fine by me. But where's the fun in me having to use up 4/5ths of my inventory with ammo? Or me having to leave a party because I'm spent?

And more importantly, what's the downside if they made it so that I don't have to do any of that? I'm assuming that the class is otherwise balanced (which really, it should have been anyway).

Edited, Jul 9th 2010 4:10pm by Eske
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#14 Jul 09 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
It would still have problems, but they could just have ammo add extra damage, so that you can still attack without it. That way crafters can still make money on it, and rangers can still function (albeit to a lesser degree) if they happen to run out in the middle of a party.
#15 Jul 09 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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Lamnethx of the Seven Seas wrote:
It would still have problems, but they could just have ammo add extra damage, so that you can still attack without it. That way crafters can still make money on it, and rangers can still function (albeit to a lesser degree) if they happen to run out in the middle of a party.


That'd at least be preferable to me than XI's system. Dragon Age works that way.
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#16 Jul 09 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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Eske wrote:
Lamnethx of the Seven Seas wrote:
It would still have problems, but they could just have ammo add extra damage, so that you can still attack without it. That way crafters can still make money on it, and rangers can still function (albeit to a lesser degree) if they happen to run out in the middle of a party.


That'd at least be preferable to me than XI's system. Dragon Age works that way.


Yeah, that's not too terribly bad of an idea.
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#17 Jul 09 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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sounds good.

hard to apply that to shihei, though

*ponder*
#18 Jul 09 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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The chances of this happening are slim to none. XIV has been designed to have durability loss from the beginning, having infinite arrows is sort of counter-productive to that concept.

Most crafts in XI are poorly designed for a mature game and playerbase. The most profitable crafts by far are the ones that make consumables. Compare that to the durable goods crafts like smithing, and you will see that all profits come from the rare HQs as opposed to steady, smaller gains.

With durability being an issue, the crafts like smithing have a more stable role in the economy. To make arrowcrafting the one exception to that rule would ***** anyone who wanted to focus on woodworking. At some point everyone who wanted to play as an archer would have their infinite arrow stacks and that aspect of the economy would be dead. If SE was that short-sighted in their economy building, then we are in for big trouble.

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#19 Jul 09 2010 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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You make a good point. Archery did support Woodworking, and later Blacksmithing as well.

It was a clearly unequal system though. I doubt they intended to create a job that could only be played by the rich. Sounds like Replenish is a limited version to alleviate this, but not fully elimanate the need for crafted arrows.
#20 Jul 09 2010 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
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Inralkil wrote:
The chances of this happening are slim to none. XIV has been designed to have durability loss from the beginning, having infinite arrows is sort of counter-productive to that concept.

Most crafts in XI are poorly designed for a mature game and playerbase. The most profitable crafts by far are the ones that make consumables. Compare that to the durable goods crafts like smithing, and you will see that all profits come from the rare HQs as opposed to steady, smaller gains.

With durability being an issue, the crafts like smithing have a more stable role in the economy. To make arrowcrafting the one exception to that rule would ***** anyone who wanted to focus on woodworking. At some point everyone who wanted to play as an archer would have their infinite arrow stacks and that aspect of the economy would be dead. If SE was that short-sighted in their economy building, then we are in for big trouble.


I definitely saw benefit to crafting, but I just don't see why one class has to be singled out in order to bolster it. IMO, the benefit to making the game more fun for archers outweighs the benefit of having another item that will always need to be crafted. I mean, archers would still need to have their bows refurbished, as durability still applies to them. If they are balanced with other classes, then why keep the hangup of having to stock ammo?

There are myriad other ways of sustaining crafting and the economy.
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#21 Jul 09 2010 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
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RufuSwho wrote:
Replenish may help.

But doesn't MP not regen? You have to go somewhere to refill? Not sure.


If it's exceptionally hard to get back MP then I imagine mages will be the first to let you know about it.
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