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#52 Jul 10 2010 at 1:19 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
The gender stereotyping is really unfortunate because it ultimately deprives both men and women of feeling comfortable partaking in enjoyable activities, and creates a rift between the genders that eventually causes relationship problems. Case in point, if men like sports and video games, and women like shopping and make up, then men and women find difficulty enjoying these things together, which is something that all relationships should have.

Personally all I was trying to say in my earlier comment is that while most girls I meet online are cool and I'm glad they're around, on the other hand most of the touchy people in game who I've been close to have been females. Since I'm really not the kind of guy who treads lightly, and most guys don't really give a @#%^ if I run at the mouth, I do feel like I'm on eggshells more often as the girl gamers increase in numbers. A recent case in point.


I'm not trying to be sexist here, but I do have to agree that if you jokingly make an offensive reference, women are more likely than men to complain about it. Men are more likely to just laugh at something offensive. Now that's not to say women never find offensive jokes funny, or that men never get offended, but if one were to make a slightly offensive joke and only one person were to complain about it, that person is statistically more likely to be female than male.

Conversely, if someone were to say something kind and caring or otherwise sensitive about someone else, perhaps a story about how the ending to CoP made you cry or that you feel emotionally invested in your character, and one were apt to complain about such a thing, that person is statistically more likely to be a male. Granted, my gender bias is showing, but I just can't picture a female saying "stfu ****" to someone. Actually, scratch that, I just thought of one such female who I could picture saying that, but she's a /b/tard, so that could have a lot to do with it.

My point stands though; you're right that "gender expectations" do tend to limit people based on what society expects of you. Just as you're unlikely to have a heterosexual female mechanic or butcher, you're unlikely to have a heterosexual male wedding planner or beauty salon worker.

And before you say it isn't true...

Article is a bit old, but I can't imagine things have changed that severely in 3 years. Society's stigmas still project certain expectations of men and women that are difficult to overcome.
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#53 Jul 10 2010 at 1:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Girl gamer here...
I don't really know what the breakdown was for genders, but it definitely didn't seem like other girls were so rare that it was surprising to ever find one. For any of the games I play, it seems fairly even with guys being the majority. In-game, I had no trouble with any of the guys in my link. I can only think of one time, ever, that the other most active girl in my link got hit on, and the other guys in the link came down hard on the guy who did it.

I don't care what gender you play or what gender you are. If I like your personality and the way you play, that means more than anything else. If you play a male and aren't, or if you play a female and aren't, you better tell me or I will relate to you as if you are what your avatar is. If you don't care, then neither do I. I don't see this as creepy because first, it's a game and I understand people may want that little element of RP, and second, I'm not playing to try and pick up a date.
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#54 Jul 10 2010 at 1:56 AM Rating: Decent
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In the game I'm playing there's an all female faction(guild/linkshell). No joke, they wouldn't let me in. O.o
#55 Jul 10 2010 at 2:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Also, when my faction does events we get on TeamSpeak3. I'm guessing here but, I'd say it's about 50/50 male/female. Pretty close anyways out of a group of 200, with around 20-40 on TS.
#56 Jul 10 2010 at 2:17 AM Rating: Decent
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My LS had a pretty high female population. Most of them were cool, but there were a couple that would habitually explode on people from time to time. My first LS was all guys though, and the only problems we ever had were with a couple of mouthy kids (tweens). Otherwise it was a lot of lowbrow humor and generally a good time.

Not that I'm always all about **** jokes and swearing; I'm an extremely intelligent guy and I like to have intelligent conversations from time to time, but it's also really nice to feel comfortable where ever in the spectrum you'd like to be at any given time. For that reason, I don't like being in groups with young kids or really touchy people.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#57 Jul 10 2010 at 8:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Seems like adolescent males have this thought in their head that females, especially female gamers, are some virtual commodity that one must work to obtain, and that if they turn you down, it just means you have to try harder.


Nothing wrong with wanting to be with someone who shares a common [gaming] interest (five years after playing FFXI I'm married to someone I met within the first couple of months of playing the game). Persistence does work (at least in my case it did).

Of course, there is a difference between tasteful flirtation and harrassment - maybe that's the issue, but that's what separates the boys and the men :)

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#58 Jul 10 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia wrote:
My point stands though; you're right that "gender expectations" do tend to limit people based on what society expects of you. Just as you're unlikely to have a heterosexual female mechanic or butcher, you're unlikely to have a heterosexual male wedding planner or beauty salon worker.

And before you say it isn't true...

Article is a bit old, but I can't imagine things have changed that severely in 3 years. Society's stigmas still project certain expectations of men and women that are difficult to overcome.
I've yet to ever meet a woman who wanted to be a logger, mechanic, roofer, etc. If there's discrimination going on, it's hard to see over the fact that almost no women want those jobs in the first place.

If there's a woman out there that wants to work as a cement mason, by all means reach for the stars. Don't be surprised when none of her girlfriends want to be in the profession with her.

Dik wrote:
Of course, there is a difference between tasteful flirtation and harrassment - maybe that's the issue, but that's what separates the boys and the men :)
No, that's what separates the interested and the uninterested.

Edited, Jul 10th 2010 9:53am by bsphil
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#59 Jul 10 2010 at 9:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Who cares if you're male or female??

I don't understand why you would really want to know about the exact or even approximate numbers of females playing. Just enjoy it for what it is. Your hoby.

Personally I hate the stereotype. It's just a bit lame that you have to make a post like this because there are more guys than girls who game. There is a perfectly good explaination for that however. It's called Housework/kids/part or full time job! For me, it's all three, but I sure as **** will be making time for FFXIV.

So if you really must know. I'm a girlie and I will be playing on September 22nd.
#60 Jul 10 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't see a problem with women gamers, as long as they can still bring me coffee and pick up my suit from the cleaners.
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#61 Jul 10 2010 at 12:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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A lot of women played FFXI. Final Fantasy is a very venerated gaming series enjoyed by all kinds of people. The community in XI was, overall, amazing!
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#62 Jul 10 2010 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
I do feel like I'm on eggshells more often as the girl gamers increase in numbers. A recent case in point.


So next time I'm out in public and a woman is complaining about harassment I'll make sure to walk up and ask if she want's to *****, she should know I'm joking based on her minor at best prior experiences with me. If she gets offended I'll just be all ********** lady why you gotta act all ************

That's not to say I wouldn't randomly get a women who would say yes to that sort of thing, it isn't that women have different personalities then men, it's that people have different personalities based on their life experiences.


Kachi wrote:
I'm an extremely intelligent guy and I like to have intelligent conversations from time to time, but it's also really nice to feel comfortable where ever in the spectrum you'd like to be at any given time.


If this is true, and by no means do I wish to insinuate otherwise at this time, then you'd have to realize responding to someone, anyone, with something they've said bugs them is gonna get a stfu response in varying degrees of prose.

Also, in regards to you feeling comfortable at any place in the spectrum you'd like to be the problem arises when you start stepping on other people's toes about it, I've personally made rape jokes in front of people I didn't know were victims (guys) and that went over less well then your comments in the other thread :p.


In regards to the actual thread at hand, yes there are girls, yes they fall under various places on the cool/moron spectrum, no my interest in hanging around you is not sexual.


In full disclosure yes Olaurelindorenan and I share the same IP, we're engaged.
#63 Jul 10 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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:) well I am a female too, so one to add to the list. As for more or less female population, I think now days there are plenty females playing mmorpgs, I actually know quite a few of them.

I also think that most Final Fantasy players will want to try it out if they have means to do so, it is a expensive game if you add in all the requirements for it (good PC or new PS3(?) and monthly fee), also the fact that there is no global PvP might be another point of attraction, I know that most of my female friends dislike Global PvP/PK because it always ends up being abusive and as a women, we get involved easily, and by that same reason, annoyed with such things...but then I guess this happens with males too... not sure, but I know that most guys tend to love this kind of things (barbarians :().

:D Anyway, I know over 10 women that will play, so that is a few lol... expect to meet a lot more ingame, since I am sure many will play.

Also, about females not being so active on TS and similar, lets say that female players get hit on a lot, not everyone enjoys that, happened more than once jumping on a Guild TS and having guys flirting me, a bit annoying since that is not what I am there for. Also, not to say that some males have a strange way of being sexist and expect us to be bad players... well they need to be proved wrong so they learn, but I think this are some reasons why some females stay anonymous or stick to their friends and do not go around advertising they are female. I even know females that lied about their gender so they would be treated "equally".

Ah and last note, when a player says they are a female, don't reply with "prove it, you are a guy until you prove me wrong" seriously.... Does anyone doubt when you say you are a guy? this kind of thoughts is what keeps female players away, or keep them from socializing, you won't get a nude photo of them if you ask for a proof, so stop trying...It is boring and tiring having to deal with this kind of sexist behavior, so want more females playing, then change your ways of greeting them :P, I am sure you do not greet someone like that in real life, lol...

Edited, Jul 10th 2010 4:47pm by aeryne
#64 Jul 10 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent
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The internet is nothing like a physical public place. Also, I would expect that from the tone of my voice it would be pretty obvious were I in a public place. While tone is harder to convey online, I think there were ample clues that I was kidding. And if, as I'm told, they already knew I was kidding, and thought that I was somehow arrogant for making such a joke, well, that would be the first time in my life someone knew I was joking and reached that conclusion.

The bottom line for me is that there are proper channels for anger directed at others. Never leap to assume an intent of malice what ignorance will sufficiently explain-- never assume ignorance what frivolity may explain. There are only a couple of things that get my goat at all, and one of them is when someone assumes the worst about me without making the slightest attempt to understand my intentions.

My only point was that this kind of thing happened to me in XI far more often with females than males in my experiences, even in light of the females being significantly outnumbered by the males. I had plenty of disagreements with males, but an offput male was more likely to be dismissive than to attack me. Needless to say, one tends to warrant more respect and apology from a certain male gamer.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#65 Jul 10 2010 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
The internet is nothing like a physical public place. Also, I would expect that from the tone of my voice it would be pretty obvious were I in a public place. While tone is harder to convey online, I think there were ample clues that I was kidding. And if, as I'm told, they already knew I was kidding, and thought that I was somehow arrogant for making such a joke, well, that would be the first time in my life someone knew I was joking and reached that conclusion.

The bottom line for me is that there are proper channels for anger directed at others. Never leap to assume an intent of malice what ignorance will sufficiently explain-- never assume ignorance what frivolity may explain. There are only a couple of things that get my goat at all, and one of them is when someone assumes the worst about me without making the slightest attempt to understand my intentions.

My only point was that this kind of thing happened to me in XI far more often with females than males in my experiences, even in light of the females being significantly outnumbered by the males. I had plenty of disagreements with males, but an offput male was more likely to be dismissive than to attack me. Needless to say, one tends to warrant more respect and apology from a certain male gamer.


I think that's fair and well put. Kudos to both you and lolcrizumlol for keeping level heads.

EDIT: Wooh, my post count is currently my year of birth : )

Edited, Jul 10th 2010 4:59pm by Eske
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#66 Jul 10 2010 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi,

I suppose what is frustrating in this situation is that your response to me in the first place was invasive and unwanted. My response to you was apparently ****** and over reacting.

I agree that tonality is hard to gauge in type, and had you heard my voice you'd probably realize I was annoyed at best by another guy discrediting my discomfort by asking me to have ***. I find it odd it's still a topic of dispute.

I did catch that you were joking, I assumed you were making a joke to mock my plight. I essentially asked you to not take your place of forum anonymity and be so callous. I'm really sorry if this is over reacting to you, and I apologize for making such an impact that I am now an example of how women behave towards you.

What would be quite fabulous is if this particular issue weren't such a big deal. I still find it odd to think of players in terms of gender, some people can be intolerable, some enjoyable. Gender is really just a side note in my books.
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#67 Jul 10 2010 at 5:15 PM Rating: Decent
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female gamer here too :P

Though I've plaied to many games and met to many other women in them to think we are all that uncomon. Even ended up in a few all girl "guilds" over the cores of things.
#68 Jul 10 2010 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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It's no problem. The social dynamics online are very different than in real life. When you post in an anonymous public place you're a part of a large, dynamic conversation, and anything you say is out there for anyone else to respond to in any way that floats their boat. I wasn't even responding to you personally, just playing off of what you said. Don't even look at a poster's name normally. "wanna cyber" to me is just a cultural joke that refers to tweens on the internet, especially back when the internet was new to kids and they'd just sit in AOL chats for hours. Most of them were boys who didn't know what to do with their ***** yet and were hoping to find out.

You and I are both protected by the fact that no one knows who we are. With that, there's an understanding that we can say what we're really thinking, and it lacks the same implications as if we really knew one another. We can't force anything on eachother-- anything I say to you is at your leisure to hear. We can only interact mentally, not physically, so the bottom line is that we're as safe as our skin is thick.

I'm not saying people should be ***** to one another for no reason, just that what some internet stranger says to you should never ruffle your feathers (unless it's a valid threat.) Ideally people aren't ****** but they are, so ideally people aren't bothered by ****** but they are. The idea is that people should have good social defenses and poor social offenses.

Sorry, didn't mean to be preachy there. Just my opinion on the matter.

As for gender, I'm an egalitarian and all, but I also know that men and women are different. I wish they were much less different in general, but until they are gender is still relevant. Personally, that's not something that I use to pre-judge, but it is something I use to post-explain.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#69 Jul 10 2010 at 8:29 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
It's no problem. The social dynamics online are very different than in real life.


With all do respect Kachi—and you do seem like a nice person—what you've said previously in this thread really doesn't support that. You've used gender to explain why women act the way they do signifying that you are very cognizant of real-world "realities." But I say this because many people fall into the same trap. They think the anonymity of the web and of games puts us back to a common level and it doesn't.

I would like to believe that the anonymity of the MMO, coupled with the base level of roleplay that must go on for a successful experience is enough for us all to start on page one of our societal socialization. But that never happened in XI, certainly doesn't happen in WoW, and probably won't happen in XIV.

#70 Jul 11 2010 at 12:59 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think so? I don't think that anonymity on the web does have a great effect on the gender culture, honestly. I think you're confusing the general statements I was making about web anonymity with what I was saying about genders. Granted I said one right after the other, but they're not meant to be related.

Basically I was saying that anonymity on the web essentially makes it more appropriate to say what you're thinking-- things you wouldn't say to someone in person. And I was ALSO saying that men and women are different and those differences carry over even when in an anonymous online environment. The two weren't meant to be taken together to make some broader statement.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#71 Jul 11 2010 at 3:19 AM Rating: Default
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Having played Aion, I actually think that FFXI had a lot of females for some reason. In fenrir and I played in 2005-6 but I think the ratio of the girls-boys were nearly 50:50 *well maybe 40:60 to be exact* but it's pretty high for an MMORPG i think..
I think ffxiv is going to have a lot of female gamers again. Just an intuition of mine =P
#72 Jul 12 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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So... since I'm female can I use that to my advantage and get free stuff handed to me in FFXIV?

/flee
#73 Jul 13 2010 at 8:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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I suppose I shouldn't be so surprised at how seriously some people are taking this thread.

You know what's fun? Playing with guys and girls and everyone is repectful.

Perhaps for some people an MMO is basically their first shot at co-ed entertainment.
#74 Jul 13 2010 at 8:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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akelah wrote:

Who cares if you're male or female??

I don't understand why you would really want to know about the exact or even approximate numbers of females playing. Just enjoy it for what it is. Your hoby.


I have to agree with this. You will meet people throughout your gaming time in XIV just as you did in WoW and XI, and the important thing is going to be what's between their ears, not what's between their legs.

That said, I expect that there are far more female gamers than we know about, for the simple fact that many of us keep it secret to avoid lonely men latching on. I get that 1 in 5 relationships now start on the internet and all that rot, but XI\WoW\MMOS in general are not affiliated with eHarmony and some females play because we ENJOY playing, not because we want to meet a man (or woman, as it were). More females would probably make themselves known if there were fewer creeps.

That's not to say that the ones who announce it are looking to leech. Some of us just don't feel comfortable being referred to as "he". *shrugs*

I don't care one way or the other, but I can see how it's sometimes annoying that even if you have the most feminine name on the planet, you are still assumed to be male.



Edited, Jul 13th 2010 10:42am by Torrence
#75 Jul 13 2010 at 8:47 AM Rating: Default
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I'm a female that played XI for 5 years, I had female friends in the game but only a few. Because it seemed like there weren't that many (not sure if it was just my server)
I also play Wow (still playing it currently) and I noticed there are A LOT more females. I have many more females friends in Wow.
#76 Jul 13 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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#77 Jul 13 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Hi, I'm a female gamer...


Liar!!!

There are no girls on the internets! Except Pikko.

Edited, Jul 13th 2010 3:40pm by IAmAnsel
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#78 Jul 14 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
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As a guy, I'm personally more comfortable gaming with women than with men. And to me, it has a lot to do with the level of maturity of the gender. Now I'm not saying that Woman A is always better to deal with than Man B, but it seemed that the women I played FFXI with kept chat, on average, to a more mature level than most of the guys I came across. I don't mind having fun, because that's obviously what the game is there for, but I'd much rather play alone than be bombarded by my LS with **** jokes and talk about one's privates. I don't know if that's what the OP had in mind by asking the question, but those are just my 2 cents.
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#79 Jul 14 2010 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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ffxivgoo wrote:
So... since I'm female can I use that to my advantage and get free stuff handed to me in FFXIV?

/flee


GASP! a female!! Please take these random items I r have hugz plz? (kidding btw) Need me to escort you anyware? hard item to getz? I getz for yoo!!! i r have no life :(
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#80 Jul 14 2010 at 12:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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You joke about it Puppy but these guys do exist. I always take the reports of some evil siren succubus taking all this stuff from some poor, nice guy on FFXI with a grain of salt because I have seen firsthand how guys push themselves on anyone they even suspect is female.

It's annoying that sometimes niceness is mistaken for.... something else. I'm not saying that there are no manipulative women out there because they certainly exist, but a lot are just girls who thought they were making friends and it turned sour when it didn't blossom into the romance of the new age.

I knew this one guy who loaned a new player (female, of course) a set of armor for her to use until she outgrew it at level 20. She was then to return it to him. When she hit about level 19 she realized that he was looking for a real relationship and she put an end to it. So what does he do instead of just asking for the gear back? He calls a GM on her saying that she stole his gear, he got her kicked out of the linkshell, and it was a huge debacle - all because she didn't want to be his in game (or outside of game) girlfriend.

You know why I believe her side of the story? Because later that day, he latched onto me.

Blah blah blah drama I know, but it happens and this is why I know there are more girls playing than actually admit it. They are smart and avoid this kind of BS.
#81 Jul 14 2010 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:
You joke about it Puppy but these guys do exist. I always take the reports of some evil siren succubus taking all this stuff from some poor, nice guy on FFXI with a grain of salt because I have seen firsthand how guys push themselves on anyone they even suspect is female. .


Yeah I've seen it myself as well has a mithra they thought I was a female (Im not), People get kinda creepy at times. Offering to help alot me not thinking (at first anyway) to tell them I was a guy right off. They thought me taking them up on an offer for help that I was hittign on them or something O.o , After a while playing a female character i preety much made sure to tell people I was a guy. SO i can defiantly see how 1) annoying 2) creepy 3) royally messed up stalker type morons would really make female players not want to advertize that there female.
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#82 Jul 25 2010 at 6:45 PM Rating: Default
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From my experience with XI and WoW I can say that there are many female gamers that play MMO's and for the most part all of the ones I have met have been great to play with. I for one yeah I like being able to play with a female gamer who enjoys playing the same games that I do and I would tend to help a female more then a male when asked however that doesn't mean I won't help male's just means I would tend to drop what I was doing easier for a female. Was I trying to be creepy and hit on every female that I helped NO. I pride myself on being a gentlemen in RL as much as Online with females with the guys I tend to have different reactions and let off steam. I know people who have given stuff to females in game just because they were female, I know men that played female characters to get free stuff, I know *** men that played both male and female characters some would be up front about things others would not. One guy I knew that is *** and played a mithra would flirt with different men to get things done and he would act like a female because well he enjoyed it was it right probably not but it happens. Overall there are a bunch of honest people that just enjoy playing with the opposite ***, there are those that enjoy playing as a character of the opposite *** and there are those shady people that just want free stuff. I will be the person that helps everyone just because that's how I am but I'm not giving anyone free stuff that I can use if I don't need it or a linkshell member doesn't need it I'm selling it. Meh off topic a little at some points my bad anyways nuff said. lol
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#83 Jul 26 2010 at 1:30 AM Rating: Good
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I think gender is quite overrated. People are way more alike than they are different and nothing is so alien that we cannot understand or relate to someone else. By all means, play with gender. We created it, it's ours to toy with. So be yourself, whomever you may be, be kind and courteous. And most of all, have fun. Don't let bad socialization and education about what it means to be a man or a woman ruin your gaming experience.
#84 Jul 26 2010 at 3:27 AM Rating: Good
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The only barriers between us are the one's we construct ourselves.


If you didn't mention you were a female gamer then no one would have asked. If you're announcing a difference then you have created the barrier, it is now every body else's burden to avoid the barrier as best as they can.

Be a human instead, I find far less awkward situations that way ;)
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#85 Jul 26 2010 at 8:42 AM Rating: Default
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no one cares if you have a ***** or a ****** as long as you play your role, i.e. healer, tank, dd ect. Alot of fem characters are dudes so most people dont perve on a pile of pixels because unless they know your hot most will assume your not or mediocre at best.
#86 Jul 26 2010 at 9:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Papanurf wrote:
The only barriers between us are the one's we construct ourselves.


If you didn't mention you were a female gamer then no one would have asked. If you're announcing a difference then you have created the barrier, it is now every body else's burden to avoid the barrier as best as they can.

Be a human instead, I find far less awkward situations that way ;)


Mmm...I disagree. People overstep boundaries, or make social faux-pas all the time (knowingly or not) that can offend another. A slightly racist joke, a misogynistic remark...things like slip out all the time. They occur because of our inherent differences (what you refer to as barriers).

Pretending that we're all the same is not a solution. Others will make mistakes and cross lines, because they are limited to their own life and experiences, and are innately unable to fully empathize with others. Better to acknowledge that we are all different, and to recognize and appreciate differences in others that cause them to approach things in other ways. A female should be able to feel completely comfortable with disclosing that she is female. That's not a fact that one should have to hide. Disclosing one's gender can help others interact with you on a more personal level...the onus is on others to not use that information to behave improperly.

Social barriers should not be "avoided." They should be bridged through understanding.

Edited, Jul 26th 2010 11:24am by Eske

Edited, Jul 26th 2010 11:26am by Eske
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#87 Jul 26 2010 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
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IAmAnsel wrote:
Quote:
Hi, I'm a female gamer...


Liar!!!

There are no girls on the internets! Except Pikko.

Better not tell Darqflame that. She'll probably ban you or something. :P
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#88 Jul 26 2010 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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pgc137 wrote:
no one cares if you have a ***** or a ****** as long as you play your role, i.e. healer, tank, dd ect. Alot of fem characters are dudes so most people dont perve on a pile of pixels because unless they know your hot most will assume your not or mediocre at best.
Lots of people care who have vaginas on the internet once you announce it to everyone.
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#89 Jul 26 2010 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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I'm female and will definitely be playing. My husband and I both played FFXI for two years and have been playing LOTRO for the last three. I'm looking forward to FFXIV and meeting all my fellow female players.

(FFXIV.... It's not just for kids!)
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#90 Jul 26 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
Both my sister and I both play Wow and FFXI and will be playing FFXIV so you can count on two more females.

Our LS from FFXI had several females. It isn't as bad as it used to be when I had to explain that yes, I really am a girl, ******* and everything...
#91 Jul 26 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Excellent
melaniewing wrote:
Both my sister and I both play Wow and FFXI and will be playing FFXIV so you can count on two more females.

Our LS from FFXI had several females. It isn't as bad as it used to be when I had to explain that yes, I really am a girl, ******* and everything...


Nice to see another 8-bit fan Smiley: grin
#92 Jul 26 2010 at 6:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I haven't read 8bit in years. Is it still dragging on and on (and on)?
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#93 Jul 26 2010 at 6:39 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
I haven't read 8bit in years. Is it still dragging on and on (and on)?

'Fraid not. They ended it recently.
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#94 Jul 26 2010 at 6:49 PM Rating: Decent
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lol at 1225 episodes. I think I quit well before 500. Maybe one of these days I'll trudge through them.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#95 Jul 26 2010 at 8:13 PM Rating: Good
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Eske wrote:
Papanurf wrote:
The only barriers between us are the one's we construct ourselves.


If you didn't mention you were a female gamer then no one would have asked. If you're announcing a difference then you have created the barrier, it is now every body else's burden to avoid the barrier as best as they can.

Be a human instead, I find far less awkward situations that way ;)


Mmm...I disagree. People overstep boundaries, or make social faux-pas all the time (knowingly or not) that can offend another. A slightly racist joke, a misogynistic remark...things like slip out all the time. They occur because of our inherent differences (what you refer to as barriers).

Pretending that we're all the same is not a solution. Others will make mistakes and cross lines, because they are limited to their own life and experiences, and are innately unable to fully empathize with others. Better to acknowledge that we are all different, and to recognize and appreciate differences in others that cause them to approach things in other ways. A female should be able to feel completely comfortable with disclosing that she is female. That's not a fact that one should have to hide. Disclosing one's gender can help others interact with you on a more personal level...the onus is on others to not use that information to behave improperly.

Social barriers should not be "avoided." They should be bridged through understanding.


It's actually interesting; since the age of the internet and the increase in "social networking" the result is that many people have all but become socially inept. In a world where you can put anyone on a block list and ignore them, you're never FORCED to deal with compromise or differing opinions. Why come up with a counterargument or risk learning something when you can click ignore/thumbs down and go on to something else?

Studies have shown that much of communication is nonverbal. Emphasis, voice tone, facial expressions, body gestures, all of this factors into telling people things. Humans are designed to be social animals; that's why forums and message boards and other social networking sites are like crack to us; we find ourselves interested in saying what we're thinking and hearing what other people are thinking.

The problem is, the internet allows people to say and do whatever they want with virtual anonymity, and it also allows people to ignore anything they don't want to hear. These are both horrible things, and one or both is almost always the cause of nearly every problem you will ever encounter with everyone you will ever meet online. The fact that there are no repercussions to saying what's on your mind teaches people that there's no need to actually keep certain things to themselves. This idea, when applied IRL, can have disastrous results. Furthermore, as I said earlier, the fact that one can simply ignore anything you don't like or just downrate it implies two things: one, it implies to people that their opinion is ALWAYS equally as valid as anyone else, even when they don't have a strong opinion or their opinion is flawed. Two, it doesn't allow people to get the experience of actually DISCUSSING things with people, because everyone has this opinion, and if you disagree with them, they don't care what you have to say. Ignore, move on.

There is no filter like this in real life. You can TRY to ignore that girl in a chicken suit holding a Peta flag, but it's much more difficult to deal with when she's trying to hand you a flier that you don't want than it is to right click on someone's name and make them magically disappear.

The result of all this? Everyone falls into cliques. People only like to talk with and hang out with other people who have things in common with them. The downside is that the less you hang out with people who DON'T share common interests, the less likely you are to develop NEW ones. If all you ever do is talk to people who agree with everything you say, you're going to be miserable.

And indeed we are. Ask your parents or your grandparents. Growing up, they've had to deal with a lot of people they do not like. Some of them are probably still dealing with people they don't like. But they end up with more friends at the same time. Many of your parents who are in their 40s and 50s like mine (or older) will rattle off names of people they grew up with, who they'd trust with their greatest secrets, because they honestly felt they could trust them.

So in this age of social networking, I present the following: Let's say you have a story or a picture of yourself in a horribly compromising position; say you were cheating on someone or you stole something expensive or that you played Snow White in an all-male (including you) cast, whatever you want. Ask yourself: how many people would I trust with this knowledge to not only not make fun of me, but also to NEVER tell ANYONE about it? One person? Two? None?

The fact that we can't -see- people and we can't -touch- people breeds contempt and distrust. I'm not talking a total lack of trust, but a lack of REAL trust. Many people come here asking for advise on their systems, what to upgrade. I've helped a lot of them. I have gladly taken my time to tell people what to buy, what not to buy, and lots of people have taken my advice and thanked me for it. I'm not the only one. So you trust me to recommend computer parts.

But let me ask you this: Would you give me the key to your house and ask me to feed your cats while you go on vacation for a week? I mean, I have two cats so I know how to take care of them, I can clean litterboxes, refill their water bowl daily, I love cats. I also keep a rather clean house so I'm not going to trash your place; ****, I might even clean it up for you.

But do you -really- trust me? What color is my hair? What color is my skin? How old am I? What's my name? Have I showered today? Am I wearing pants right now? You don't know any of this. I could tell you that I have blond hair, am Hispanic, 29 years old, named Javier, last showered three days ago, and am wearing sweats. You might even believe me, despite that every word of it was *********

Now my point is not that you -can't- trust people, but that people -don't- trust each other. A friendly smile and a firm handshake go a lot farther to establishing a trust relationship than 100 tweets ever will.

Once you strip away race, gender, and age, you might say "we're all the same", but the fact is, we're not. In fact, the only thing about us as humanity that makes us all the same is the fact that we ARE all different. Attempting to avoid differences just causes you to see everyone else as a name or a number, and not a person. And if you can't see each other as people, you can never hope to actually trust them.

The result is that none of us are ever alone, and yet all of us feel lonely.
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#96 Jul 26 2010 at 8:41 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia, that has got to be one of the best things ive seen written on this forum. Very well written.

Edited, Jul 26th 2010 10:45pm by Puppy1
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#97 Jul 26 2010 at 10:07 PM Rating: Good
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Better not tell Darqflame that. She'll probably ban you or something. :P


no, she wont ban you....youll just never be the same again. sweets wont taste as sweet, childrens laughter will no longer brighten your day, and even the dawning of a new sun's warmth will not be enough to drive the chill she leaves on you.

you wont want to go back, but at this point its too late; she has her fingers in you, and you hate it! but you cant stand to be without it. so youll go back, again and again, until youre spent and dead and not much more than an semi-autonomous waste of natural resources.

so ive heard. there are many legends of what darqflame does to you should you displease her, and this is but the tamest of them all.
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#98 Jul 26 2010 at 10:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Puppy1 wrote:
Mikhalia, that has got to be one of the best things ive seen written on this forum. Very well written.

Edited, Jul 26th 2010 10:45pm by Puppy1


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#99 Jul 27 2010 at 3:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

The problem is, the internet allows people to say and do whatever they want with virtual anonymity, and it also allows people to ignore anything they don't want to hear. These are both horrible things, and one or both is almost always the cause of nearly every problem you will ever encounter with everyone you will ever meet online. The fact that there are no repercussions to saying what's on your mind teaches people that there's no need to actually keep certain things to themselves. This idea, when applied IRL, can have disastrous results. Furthermore, as I said earlier, the fact that one can simply ignore anything you don't like or just downrate it implies two things: one, it implies to people that their opinion is ALWAYS equally as valid as anyone else, even when they don't have a strong opinion or their opinion is flawed. Two, it doesn't allow people to get the experience of actually DISCUSSING things with people, because everyone has this opinion, and if you disagree with them, they don't care what you have to say. Ignore, move on.


I don't really agree that these are horrible things, but it's way past my beddy time, so I shouldn't launch into lengthy exposition.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#100 Jul 27 2010 at 5:10 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I don't really agree that these are horrible things, but it's way past my beddy time, so I shouldn't launch into lengthy exposition.


id have to agree with that. those things in and of themselves arent horrible per se, theyre completely neutral. theres nothing wrong with ignoring what someone else says, its the context that gives it a sense of rightness or wrongness. i.e. if someone is making fun of you, ignoring them is "turning the other cheek" whereas if someone is trying to give you a warning and you ignore said warning, then youre being <insert chosen euphemism for stupid such as "shallow end of the gene pool" here>.

so theres good and theres bad inherent in doing those things, but that good or bad comes via the circumstances surrounding them. in this case, the bad being highlighted is that of a person acting in a way that disregards (or flat out ignores) other people. an extreme example of this being if a person spams a number of offensive words in a thread somewhere on alla (of course we here at alla have a means of policing such things, but you get the gist of what im saying). in essence, i think whats being called to attention here is the lack of accountability. when people think they wont get in trouble for what they are doing, suddenly a lot of social "locks" pop open.

but such is the price of the internet. i personally think the good gleaned from it outweighs the bad, precisely because you can opt to use this ("turning the other cheek") to ignore the bad. a good rule i heard mentioned once is to never say anything online that you wouldnt say to your grandmother. not a bad bit of advice, unless youre italian like me and your entire extended family thrives on conflicts that ultimately result in a lot of verbal vomit being spewed at one another. my grandmother has said some horrible **** to me, and ive tossed worse right back in her face lol.
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#101 Jul 27 2010 at 8:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The result of all this? Everyone falls into cliques. People only like to talk with and hang out with other people who have things in common with them. The downside is that the less you hang out with people who DON'T share common interests, the less likely you are to develop NEW ones. If all you ever do is talk to people who agree with everything you say, you're going to be miserable.

And indeed we are. Ask your parents or your grandparents. Growing up, they've had to deal with a lot of people they do not like. Some of them are probably still dealing with people they don't like. But they end up with more friends at the same time. Many of your parents who are in their 40s and 50s like mine (or older) will rattle off names of people they grew up with, who they'd trust with their greatest secrets, because they honestly felt they could trust them.



I completely agree with this. Not interacting with someone because of a difference of opinion may make us feel safe, but it can possibly have the opposite effect. Maybe I'd have missed out on meeting some of the wonderful people I've known had I held fast to blind beliefs and never given anyone the benefit of the doubt.


Just because I don't agree with, or share the same opinion as, someone doesn't mean that the person isn't actually a very good person. I know that not everyone will agree with me, but that doesn't mean I can't depend on a person to hold my faith or carry out a promise.

Quote:

Studies have shown that much of communication is nonverbal. Emphasis, voice tone, facial expressions, body gestures, all of this factors into telling people things. Humans are designed to be social animals; that's why forums and message boards and other social networking sites are like crack to us; we find ourselves interested in saying what we're thinking and hearing what other people are thinking.



Also this. In most cases, in a MMO, we're limited to text chat. We don't have the benefit of looking at who we're addressing. We can't read facial expressions to judge if we're going too far or not. Almost anything anyone says online has the potential to offend someone somewhere. A little patients and forgiveness can go a long ways.



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