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#102 Jul 27 2010 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
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I think the thread is getting a bit off-topic...Besides the excellent posts regarding gender stereotypes and modern social interactions deserve their own threads.

Back on topic...Yes there were many female players in FFXI. And from my personal experience they mostly played either Hume or Elvaan females. Hmmm I wonder why?

Of course I am sure there were also a lot of female players who played male characters.


EDIT: O/T...So I'm a total forum noob, but what's this 'scholar' thingy that just appeared under my name??

Edited, Jul 27th 2010 12:39pm by uomaru
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#103 Jul 27 2010 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good
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Quor wrote:
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I don't really agree that these are horrible things, but it's way past my beddy time, so I shouldn't launch into lengthy exposition.


id have to agree with that. those things in and of themselves arent horrible per se, theyre completely neutral. theres nothing wrong with ignoring what someone else says, its the context that gives it a sense of rightness or wrongness.


Fair enough; I should clarify: It's not these things that are inherently bad, but what they lead to tends to be.

Also, grats on 8000 Quor.

uomaru wrote:
I think the thread is getting a bit off-topic...Besides the excellent posts regarding gender stereotypes and modern social interactions deserve their own threads.

Back on topic...Yes there were many female players in FFXI. And from my personal experience they mostly played either Hume or Elvaan females. Hmmm I wonder why?

Of course I am sure there were also a lot of female players who played male characters.


EDIT: O/T...So I'm a total forum noob, but what's this 'scholar' thingy that just appeared under my name??

Edited, Jul 27th 2010 12:39pm by uomaru


Every poster has a hidden rating. As people rate your posts up (if they liked them or thought they were informative) or down (if they were useless drivel wasting precious space on the internet), your rating will go up or down. Your rating has been raised (by people rating your posts up enough) such that you are now "Scholar" and able to rate other people from here on out (unless you lose scholar).

If your rating (called karma) gets higher, you may get up to Sage or Guru. If it goes down, you could lose scholar and your ability to rate.

As long as you provide helpful, informative, or funny posts, you should be fine. Occasionally you'll end up with people rating **** down for no good reason, but those people are ****** so don't mind them.

As for an attempt to get on topic: Most males who play female characters do it either because they just prefer to look at a female or because they "oversexualize pixels". Many of them actually play Mithras (and some of them hide under "I'd play a male Mithra if I could!" yeah, 75% of you are lying). They obviously won't play Galka, and the common thread of thought is that "Taru look like kids", so that's why you see most of them as Hume or Elvaan Females. I played Elvaan for the STR bonus because I initially planned to be a DD when I created my character.
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#104 Jul 27 2010 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia wrote:
Puppy1 wrote:
Mikhalia, that has got to be one of the best things ive seen written on this forum. Very well written.

Edited, Jul 26th 2010 10:45pm by Puppy1


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Lol so I`ve read. do you accept tribute of cookies?
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#105 Jul 27 2010 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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Puppy1 wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:
Puppy1 wrote:
Mikhalia, that has got to be one of the best things ive seen written on this forum. Very well written.

Edited, Jul 26th 2010 10:45pm by Puppy1


Ask Osarion about joining my church. We have cake -and- pie.


Lol so I`ve read. do you accept tribute of cookies?


Of course. Chocolate Chip and Sugar preferred.
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#106 Jul 27 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia wrote:
As for an attempt to get on topic: Most males who play female characters do it either because they just prefer to look at a female or because they "oversexualize pixels". Many of them actually play Mithras (and some of them hide under "I'd play a male Mithra if I could!" yeah, 75% of you are lying). They obviously won't play Galka, and the common thread of thought is that "Taru look like kids", so that's why you see most of them as Hume or Elvaan Females. I played Elvaan for the STR bonus because I initially planned to be a DD when I created my character.


Hehe, I would play a male mithra, and a female mithra, I just like playing female characters overall really. Hmmm twin mithras.. er miqo'te :P. I origionaly took a mithra in 11 because i wanted to play a theif, ended up going whm summoner after a while. Thats accually what started me playing female characters, was going to choose a Male hume. An yeah i realize my typing and thoughts are scatterd :P.
Reason i like playing female characters, other then better to look at, and no i dont mean to sexualize pixels either. Is mostly, just because i want to. Dont have any sexual confusion, dont really sexualize the characters. Just play them because i want too. I have no problem playing male or female characters, i just prefer female. LARP's on the other hand when i used to play.. always male lol (live action role playing game for thoes who dont know)
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#107 Jul 27 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Also, grats on 8000 Quor.


huh, look at that. so it is. ty sir!
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#108 Jul 27 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia wrote:
As long as you provide helpful, informative, or funny posts, you should be fine.

Who said anything about that? ;p

Thank you for your kind explanation. Now I shall abuse utilize this newly-bestowed power to help better the forum.

p.s. I make killer cheesecakes. Can I join your church?

Edited, Jul 27th 2010 5:17pm by uomaru
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#109 Jul 27 2010 at 5:33 PM Rating: Good
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uomaru wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:
As long as you provide helpful, informative, or funny posts, you should be fine.

Who said anything about that? ;p

Thank you for your kind explanation. Now I shall abuse utilize this newly-bestowed power to help better the forum.

p.s. I make killer cheesecakes. Can I join your church?

Edited, Jul 27th 2010 5:17pm by uomaru


Indeed you may.
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#110 Jul 27 2010 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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as a chick who played FFXI I would say there was a decent number of women who played. One of my three chars that I played over different reincarnations had a male avatar - if you are worried about unwanted attention I would just go that route and get your boyfriend to play a female char.

I did get a couple of weirdos when playing with a female avatar- but I generally didn't have any issues with anyone over the age of 12 or with an IQ of greater than 70
#111 Jul 28 2010 at 1:54 AM Rating: Good
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I cannot tell you why, and i know it's not like that, but I always imagine that female characters in ffxi are actually controlled by males otaku 120cm high and with a weight of 120kg (power/size=1/1) who take a shower only for christmas. 
Anyone has the same feeling?
#112 Jul 28 2010 at 1:59 AM Rating: Excellent
desertbynight wrote:
I cannot tell you why, and i know it's not like that, but I always imagine that female characters in ffxi are actually controlled by males otaku 120cm high and with a weight of 120kg (power/size=1/1) who take a shower only for christmas. 
Anyone has the same feeling?


It does kinda make you wonder just what the ratio of RL women>Manthras is. not only Manthra but any female character played by a guy.
#113 Jul 28 2010 at 5:35 AM Rating: Decent
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desertbynight wrote:
I cannot tell you why, and i know it's not like that, but I always imagine that female characters in ffxi are actually controlled by males otaku 120cm high and with a weight of 120kg (power/size=1/1) who take a shower only for christmas. 
Anyone has the same feeling?
No, but I still picture most female characters as men.
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#114 Jul 28 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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For whatever reason, I picture the player as their characters gender even when I know better. I guess I just go with the role-playing aspect of it.

When the immersion successfully sets in, my brain just takes everything at face value.
#115 Jul 28 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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This thread suddenly reminds me of the movie Gamer...

Specifically, the guy who was controlling the protagonist's wife

If you haven't seen the movie, it's worth a watch. And don't read the spoiler above if you plan to. Not a HUGE spoiler, but probably not helpful to know.
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#116 Jul 28 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia wrote:
This thread suddenly reminds me of the movie Gamer...

Specifically, the guy who was controlling the protagonist's wife

If you haven't seen the movie, it's worth a watch. And don't read the spoiler above if you plan to. Not a HUGE spoiler, but probably not helpful to know.


~Shudders~ Thats what i kinad picture for thoes players who act like prositutes.
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#117 Jul 29 2010 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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It would be nice if there was a movie about video games where one of the characters is NOT the sterotypical 24/7 no-life-havin' gamer.

I don't know what the percentages really are, but everyone I personally know who is a gamer has a robust social life, takes care of their school/work/family and pays the bills on time. Some of them even excercise.
#118 Jul 29 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
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In my Experience when i played FFXI for a while that there was quite a bit of female gamers. Part of friends list were girls. Some playing with their boyfriends or husbands.. I know there were alot more guys playing, but i think thats in most games in general.
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#119 Jul 29 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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RufuSwho wrote:
It would be nice if there was a movie about video games where one of the characters is NOT the sterotypical 24/7 no-life-havin' gamer.

I don't know what the percentages really are, but everyone I personally know who is a gamer has a robust social life, takes care of their school/work/family and pays the bills on time. Some of them even excercise.


Well the problem with that, is that usually a character in a movie only has a hobby (boating, gaming, sports) if it's important to the story. They're not going to mention that the camp counselor who gets beheaded collects stamps or that the cheerleader who gets gutted also happens to enjoy Tolkien and Lovecraft.

Even in a movie like the Saw series, they only mention what people do in their spare time if it's relevant to why they were picked and how they are dying.

So usually in movies that have gamers in them, they're only a gamer if it's relevant to the story as a whole. And just like "the cheerleader" is always super excited and "the goth kid" has a room drenched in black and red or "the nerd" collects Star Wars (or Star Trek) figurines, "the gamer" is always super mega awesome into games.

Basically, any character that needs to have a trait that is important to the story almost always ends up being a caricature of that trait.

I don't disagree that it's rather annoying, but in all fairness, they do it for almost everyone.
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#120 Aug 01 2010 at 9:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Hmm, I've been caught by this trap before and I ... I just don't know if I can do it again.








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#121Nilbog, Posted: Aug 01 2010 at 10:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Stereotypes still exist because they are still generally true...
#122 Aug 02 2010 at 2:10 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm a guy and I've played some MMORPGs as female characters. They just look cool and I have no objective to beg or flirt with other players for loot. I just tell people straight up I am a dude.

I know there are lots of discussion about this, but is it really that bad if let's say I play a female char in FF14? I just don't want to end up getting booted in parties...
#123 Aug 02 2010 at 5:05 AM Rating: Default
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wimmenz on teh internets? bullocks

In the kitchen makin sammiches amirite?



Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 7:12am by CupDeNoodles
#124 Aug 02 2010 at 5:16 AM Rating: Decent
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CupDeNoodles wrote:
wimmenz on teh internets? bullocks

In the kitchen makin sammiches amirite?



Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 7:12am by CupDeNoodles


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#125 Aug 02 2010 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
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greenminttea wrote:
I'm a guy and I've played some MMORPGs as female characters. They just look cool and I have no objective to beg or flirt with other players for loot. I just tell people straight up I am a dude.

I know there are lots of discussion about this, but is it really that bad if let's say I play a female char in FF14? I just don't want to end up getting booted in parties...


I played female characters in 6, 10-2, 11, and 13, and no one gave me any crap for it.
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#126 Aug 07 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
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*Sarcasm on*
Hey, I've never played FFXI before, but I'm used to how things are in WoW.
I've noticed a decent amount of girls in WoW, and I REALLY wanted to know if there will be LOTS of girls in FFXIV...
*Sarcasm off*

W/o mentioning gender, it comes off sounding like some horny guy wants to flirt with girls...
OP mentions shes a girl, and now shes a B***h who wants free stuff.

ppl seriously need to stop worrying if girls announce they are female or not.
both of u will get to the point, and avoid flirting.
allot less drama this way.

Also forgot to mention, SE released a census with info on the ratio fo female to male gamers in FFXI, along with info on which race/gender each players on average.

Was listed 50% of mithra are male and 50% female.
2% of all galka are women in RL, and 10% of the guy characters played were actually women (this was 2008 Census i think)

Edited, Aug 7th 2010 5:18pm by C1aire

Edited, Aug 7th 2010 5:19pm by C1aire
#127 Aug 07 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nilbog wrote:
Stereotypes still exist because they are still generally true...

I can automatically assume that 3 to 4 out of every 5 guys who play this game are socially inept when it comes to actual real life human interraction because it's true.

I can also say that without a doubt 3 to 4 out of 5 women who play this game are not as equally skilled or willing to learn how to fully maximize their characters potential because they will be carried along with a simple wink of an eyelash by the afformentioned people. Its more about a pretty environment, nice shoes, and /waves instead of efficiency.

We all know and accept this so beating around the bush about it is literally like Bush beating around our bushes when he said Iraqhad weapons of mass destruction.

I'm a normal guy, I'm going to curse, tell jokes, **** behind my computer and laugh because it stinks, and eventually I'm gonna find that awesome mix of people where everyone's personalities cooincide and you have some great company for the next 5 years.

Find what fits you and stop being such sensitive little wusses because you know before the game even comes what people are floating around the web.


We all know this? I assume that you're basing these assertions solely off your personal observations/opinions. In my experience, both of your statistics are off by a wide margin. Stereotypes are sometimes steeped in a real condition. Sometimes they're a vast exaggeration of a small percentage of a population. And sometimes they're completely baseless.

Honestly, I think your assumptions are asinine, condescending, and misogynistic. I can't rate you down hard enough.

Edited, Aug 7th 2010 5:36pm by Eske
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#128 Aug 07 2010 at 3:57 PM Rating: Good
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*cheers on Eske*
#129 Aug 07 2010 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
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Eske wrote:
Nilbog wrote:
Stereotypes still exist because they are still generally true...

I can automatically assume that 3 to 4 out of every 5 guys who play this game are socially inept when it comes to actual real life human interraction because it's true.

I can also say that without a doubt 3 to 4 out of 5 women who play this game are not as equally skilled or willing to learn how to fully maximize their characters potential because they will be carried along with a simple wink of an eyelash by the afformentioned people. Its more about a pretty environment, nice shoes, and /waves instead of efficiency.

We all know and accept this so beating around the bush about it is literally like Bush beating around our bushes when he said Iraqhad weapons of mass destruction.

I'm a normal guy, I'm going to curse, tell jokes, **** behind my computer and laugh because it stinks, and eventually I'm gonna find that awesome mix of people where everyone's personalities cooincide and you have some great company for the next 5 years.

Find what fits you and stop being such sensitive little wusses because you know before the game even comes what people are floating around the web.


We all know this? I assume that you're basing these assertions solely off your personal observations/opinions. In my experience, both of your statistics are off by a wide margin. Stereotypes are sometimes steeped in a real condition. Sometimes they're a vast exaggeration of a small percentage of a population. And sometimes they're completely baseless.

Honestly, I think your assumptions are asinine, condescending, and misogynistic. I can't rate you down hard enough.

Edited, Aug 7th 2010 5:36pm by Eske


I helped.

Seriously, if you're going to make claims that 60-80% of people are a certain way, let's see some facts and studies, not opinions weighted by perspective bias.
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#130 Aug 07 2010 at 8:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Lots of females played FFXI, and the more mmo's i play, the more I see the female population increase. So as one female to all the other females out there... GIRL POWER!! Lets teach these men how to play!
#131 Aug 07 2010 at 8:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Neo: Trinity... THE Trinity? The one that cracked the IRS dbase? Jesus.
Trinity: What?
Neo: I just, um... thought you were a guy.
Trinity: Most guys do.

Gender really doesn't have much to do with efficiency. Just how focused you can be on a goal - digital or otherwise.

#132 Aug 08 2010 at 12:10 AM Rating: Good
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Jorizorian wrote:
I'm a female that played XI for 5 years, I had female friends in the game but only a few. Because it seemed like there weren't that many (not sure if it was just my server)
I also play Wow (still playing it currently) and I noticed there are A LOT more females. I have many more females friends in Wow.


Skimmed through and saw this. Two things that come to mind are 1) WoW is more mainstream and 2) it's far more for the casual player than FFXI. Most games fall into that category I guess. I think the hardcore, stat-obsessed crowd of FFXI tends to clash with the more social, casual game types that females are drawn to. Not to mention, a major chunk of the game is only accessible through massive coordination, where alot of the "elitism" takes place.

Expect FFXIV to change this ratio alot.
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#133 Aug 08 2010 at 12:00 PM Rating: Decent
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My sister is playing this game with her bf also , and im in agreement with the 30% ish ratio though i just hope it doesnt get into an attention competition between girls like ive seen in wow in a couple guilds i been in .Not ******* against girls imo they do bring a lot of life in a guild usually and in a good way but theres always exceptions to everything :P .

As for the dude who played a female toon and had a bad experience its quite simple to avoid all the mambo jumbo about being treated like a girl just be straight with anyone who tries to flirt you and dont take the freebies from the poor retards who think they can get laid by givin you a couple items n youll be fine. I think my best was some dude askin : Hey babe whats your name? My reply : Keven ( my name ). His reaction was priceless. Oh yah and dont go all teehee n **** really trying to be cute if you wanna keep the wackos away too . unless youre roleplaying your female character ... just talk as you usually do otherwise whatever crap ensues is your own mess.
#134 Aug 08 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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It was actually a female who taught me a lot of the basics in XI. My 1st mmo, didn't do any research on what I was getting myself into. Just thought "online final fantasy? I gotta try this sh*t!" I was a lost galka wandering about killing stuff in Gustaberg when we started talking in tells and she invited me to her LS. Basically trained me up from beginning through the dunes and making that 1st suicide run to jeuno. She & her friends were pretty awesome female gamers...
#135 Aug 08 2010 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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I can honestly say some of the best players I partied with were female. Making assumptions that because they are female is ridiculous, I honestly hope I dont run into people that think like that in FFXIV (although I am sure to)Tell me what server you are playing on so I can be sure to avoid it.

As far as Men playing as a female character, I have zero problems with it. To each their own. The one thing that I do not approve of however, is when a male tries to masquerade as a female. I honestly could care less about flirting in game, it just makes me wonder at their motives for pretending to be a girl. It may seem a double standard, but I have no issues whatsoever with a girl pretending to be a male.
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#136 Aug 08 2010 at 7:42 PM Rating: Good
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Seems I'm a month or so late to the party.

Probably the only thing that irks me about gender is how some blanketly assume I'm e-fellating for my own gain and just kind of decide from the beginning that they should never go out of their way to help me specifically. I can only imagine these guys have been burned in the past, but adding to that they don't even try to get to know me seemingly averts the risk that they may be wrong in their assumption. I'm not just talking about random Joes in a PUG, either, but people I've been in linkshells with for extended periods of time.

Probably half a dozen or so girls in the shell I've been in for a few years now, with this number fluctuating up and down, but it's been about 6 core ladies. We haven't made a little club. We don't really talk about our monthly gifts. We may make some blatant ******* innuendo in front of the guys from time to time, but it's never led to any direct personal pressure that I've been made aware of. There's no mistaking we've had our differing share of personal problems to juggle, though. My own recent one involved taking care of my grandfather for three months while my grandmother was in the hospital due to multiple heart surgeries. Other girl got stressed by her wedding and all that entailed. Another has some medical issues of their own they wrestle with. Could go on, but the main point is we all have had things we've had to tackle that others might downplay the severity of or just dismiss as the girl being a drama queen. None of these are things I'd call gender exclusive, but I think to some degree guys have been taught not to seek help even if all it is is someone to vent to.

Ideally, gender shouldn't be an issue since physicality is a non-issue to play, but it is. Some girls don't help the cause. Some guys pretending to be girls don't help, either. Some guys are just plain pigs about it all. Some don't want any part of it, but get sucked up anyway. Girls will be out there, though, be they the cutesy types flocking to the healer role or the tomboys running around with giant axes.
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#137 Aug 08 2010 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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hey I'm not cutesy and I like to play healer :P
#138 Aug 09 2010 at 3:39 AM Rating: Good
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Sometimes I jokingly heal through intimidation when I'm on a healer job in XI. "Don't be stupid, or you might accidentally die while I'm casting Haste." I won't lie, though, as I have let some die because they wouldn't listen to my requests to make things easier on my MP or something.
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#139 Aug 09 2010 at 4:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
Sometimes I jokingly heal through intimidation when I'm on a healer job in XI. "Don't be stupid, or you might accidentally die while I'm casting Haste." I won't lie, though, as I have let some die because they wouldn't listen to my requests to make things easier on my MP or something.


An important lesson that some learn the hard way, "Don't **** off the healer unless they're really asking for it."
#140 Aug 09 2010 at 4:27 AM Rating: Decent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
An important lesson that some learn the hard way, "Don't **** off the healer unless they're really asking for it you have a really solid buffer."

A lesson I've learned a few too many times. Nothing quite like ******* off the healer, deleveling out of all your gear and being booted from the party.

Also, I read Seriha's post as Intimidation, the ability, and it confused the **** out of me. I kept thinking "wouldn't you want to heal through that? What's so strange about it?"
#141 Aug 09 2010 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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THIS JUST IN: NOBODY CARE'S THAT YOU'RE A GIRL GAMER.

MMOs have a high percentage of female gamers compared to other genres.
Girls get harassed in games because they do exactly what you did, put up a huge banner declaring their gender and draw attention to the fact they're a girl.
#142 Aug 09 2010 at 6:51 PM Rating: Good
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Xeurb wrote:
THIS JUST IN: NOBODY CARE'S THAT YOU'RE A GIRL GAMER.

MMOs have a high percentage of female gamers compared to other genres.
Girls get harassed in games because they do exactly what you did, put up a huge banner declaring their gender and draw attention to the fact they're a girl.


Stating one's gender isn't licence for another person to act innapropriately. Your argument is a conventional "blame the victim" fallacy. Nobody should be forced to hide who they are.
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#143 Aug 09 2010 at 6:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's not a fallacy to point out cause and effect. If someone happened to mention they were female and got harassed, then his post would be blaming the victim. Coming into the place and yelling I'M A FEMALE AND THAT SURE IS SOMETHING SPECIAL is just plain obnoxious right off the bat. In this case, it definitely is their fault.
#144 Aug 09 2010 at 7:57 PM Rating: Good
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I've tried to treat it as a non-issue, but sometimes it's unavoidable because guys make it one, believe it or not. Things like asking for pics or demanding voice chat. Neither of which I'm particularly forthcoming with due to past violations of trust. It's sad when wanting to be honest can work against you, though, and I don't blame girls who hide behind male characters just to avoid unsolicited flirting.
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#145 Aug 09 2010 at 8:01 PM Rating: Good
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Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
Your argument is a conventional "blame the victim" fallacy.
The victim still shares some of the responsibility, even though the offender shares more. This is all situational, it could go one way or the other depending on the circumstances.

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 9:04pm by bsphil
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#146 Aug 09 2010 at 9:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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#147 Aug 09 2010 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I find it that the girls that have the constant need to act clearly like a girl, or state they are a girl all the time are the most annoying and problem making ones. Sometimes there are creeps that will do weird things, but some of the girls will not give a crap, and some will complain about it constantly.
#148 Aug 09 2010 at 9:44 PM Rating: Decent
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#149 Aug 09 2010 at 9:52 PM Rating: Good
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KassiraBB wrote:
I find it that the girls that have the constant need to act clearly like a girl, or state they are a girl all the time are the most annoying and problem making ones. Sometimes there are creeps that will do weird things, but some of the girls will not give a crap, and some will complain about it constantly.


Dont take this the wrong way anybodys whos readign this , there is a vast number of females (and some men) who will do anything for attention, drama queens in game and out they drive me nuts!!
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#150 Aug 09 2010 at 10:36 PM Rating: Good
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Majivo wrote:
It's not a fallacy to point out cause and effect. If someone happened to mention they were female and got harassed, then his post would be blaming the victim. Coming into the place and yelling I'M A FEMALE AND THAT SURE IS SOMETHING SPECIAL is just plain obnoxious right off the bat. In this case, it definitely is their fault.


Is that the case here? The fact that you have to use such exaggeration only serves to invalidate your assertion.
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#151 Aug 09 2010 at 10:42 PM Rating: Good
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Sorry to respond to everyone in separate posts, but I'm responding from my mobile and its too much of a pain to do otherwise.

bsphil wrote:
Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
Your argument is a conventional "blame the victim" fallacy.
The victim still shares some of the responsibility, even though the offender shares more. This is all situational, it could go one way or the other depending on the circumstances.

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 9:04pm by bsphil


If a girl is harassed after revealing that she is a girl, its partially her fault?

I'm beginning to be sickened by the general attitude I'm seeing here. It's actually horrifying me, and I'm being dead serious.
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