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Heads up all ye testers!Follow

#1 Jul 15 2010 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
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Just as heads up to all those testers who read alla...

An admin has confirmed that there is to be no use of third party programs to update the game. As far as I know they haven't made an obvious announcment, merely reporting what I saw on a thread that was since locked, so many of you may not have seen it.

Best of luck updating the game the urm...right way.

(Apologies if this in some way breaks or bends the NDA)
#2 Jul 15 2010 at 2:09 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Just as heads up to all those testers who read alla...

An admin has confirmed that there is to be no use of third party programs to update the game. As far as I know they haven't made an obvious announcment, merely reporting what I saw on a thread that was since locked, so many of you may not have seen it.

Best of luck updating the game the urm...right way.

(Apologies if this in some way breaks or bends the NDA)


haw haw... I love it cause we had tons of kids complaining about their slow download speed and how alternate sources were the ONLY way to do it.

I love sweet justice for the wicked...

But if more people use the stream properly it gets faster and less people complain.
#3 Jul 15 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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I thought I heard the SE's FFXIV updater will be P2P, which will most likely prevent the need of a third party updater.
#4 Jul 15 2010 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Cyiode wrote:
I thought I heard the SE's FFXIV updater will be P2P, which will most likely prevent the need of a third party updater.


The beta updater is p2p, and it is godawful.
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#5 Jul 15 2010 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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haw haw... I love it cause we had tons of kids complaining about their slow download speed and how alternate sources were the ONLY way to do it.

I love sweet justice for the wicked...

But if more people use the stream properly it gets faster and less people complain.


You're such a douche, I mean seriously. You're assuming people can't follow simple instructions. I believe I told you yesterday that I followed all the advice given and yet still the game will not update at any reasonable speed. Yet when it does, the upload is twice that of the download, even with 'Netlimiter'.

I had a feeling it wouldn't work anyway, since most P2P are proportional to the amount you upload...

But I've said it before, they created this problem so they can fix it, or can fix it faster later on after release. That's what Beta is ALL about. ;P
#6 Jul 15 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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You're such a douche, I mean seriously.

^ agreed.
gtfo self-righteous man.

sweet justice.. go get picked on more and become a cop.
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#7 Jul 15 2010 at 6:34 PM Rating: Decent
ImmT wrote:
Cyiode wrote:
I thought I heard the SE's FFXIV updater will be P2P, which will most likely prevent the need of a third party updater.


The beta updater is p2p, and it is godawful.


This isn't true. The problem is so many people have no clue how to use P2P. I suggest people start reading up on port forwarding before the game comes out.

P2P was a great thing for SE to do. Especially on update days, when 50,000 people will want to update at once. Yay for 50,000 peers. Everyone wanted an answer to FFXI's problem of having to download updates from their servers, and they actually did something about it.


Quote:
An admin has confirmed that there is to be no use of third party programs to update the game.

There is good reason for this. If everyone is trying to get it from 3rd party sources, the official download isn't going to work, since P2P programs need people to work. Hence the problem people seem to be having with the beta download. It's not working because everyone is trying to get it from other sources.



Edited, Jul 15th 2010 8:44pm by Tenfooterten
#8 Jul 15 2010 at 6:45 PM Rating: Decent
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This is SO true! I guess it's too easy to complain and too hard to wonder if there's a solution within reach... My avarage DL was 150-200kbps, and I don't even have a public IP.
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#9 Jul 15 2010 at 8:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Also, if its not working properly then let them know. It's a beta, if their dl client is having issues, they will need to fix it for the beta to continue properly so...
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#10 Jul 15 2010 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Just a reminder to any xp sp3 users. You may want to check if you have disabled any required services.



Edited, Jul 15th 2010 10:30pm by GosuD
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#11 Jul 15 2010 at 8:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe SE thinks the West enjoys broadband upload speeds on the same level as Japan.

If everyone's uploading at 40kb/s or so (about the average for where I live), then the initial update would take around 50 hours on average.

Edited, Jul 15th 2010 10:28pm by Dizmo
#12 Jul 15 2010 at 8:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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The whole point of a beta is that it's GOING to have problems. The whole point of being a BETA TESTER is that you get to EXPERIENCE these problems, let SE know about them, and let SE fix them.

If you try to get around the problem through external means, you're leaving the problem there for everyone else to deal with, because SE isn't hearing about it and therefore can't fix it.

You don't sign up to a beta because you want to play the game early. You sign up to a beta because you want to help find bugs before the game goes live, and tell the maker of the game about these bugs so that they can fix them, so that when the beta is over, everyone has a better experience.

That is your responsibility as a beta tester: to find glitches ON PURPOSE and to help SE to fix them.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who went around SE's instructions deserves their ban. We, the people who want to play FFXIV, are trusting in you, the beta testers, to help SE straighten out the problems; not to find your own work-arounds so that you can play the game early; "testing" be damned. **** is supposed to not work. You agreed to help SE fix it.

If that's going to be a problem, there are a number of people who would be happy to actually TEST the **** game in your stead.
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#13 Jul 15 2010 at 8:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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OK all this just ruined it for me, even though I preordered FFIXV, I will cancel my preorder because I can't bare to have long update times again.

I'm joining forces with the dude who can't play just because PS3 version got delayed. All of us who announce quitting before the game has been released will unite and teach SE a lesson. SE has tortured us for so long, too long...

Alright, if you can't tell already, I'm being sarcastic. Just give SE a break, they are moving in the right direction by going to P2P, they just need to tweak some things to get people better download speeds.
#14 Jul 15 2010 at 8:46 PM Rating: Good
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Cyiode wrote:
OK all this just ruined it for me, even though I preordered FFIXV, I will cancel my preorder because I can't bare to have long update times again.

I'm joining forces with the dude who can't play just because PS3 version got delayed. All of us who announce quitting before the game has been released will unite and teach SE a lesson. SE has tortured us for so long, too long...

Alright, if you can't tell already, I'm being sarcastic. Just give SE a break, they are moving in the right direction by going to P2P, they just need to tweak some things to get people better download speeds.


Someone rate him up as a favor for me please. My finger slipped and I hit the red arrow by accident.

I know, lolkarma and all that but sorry. >.<
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#15 Jul 15 2010 at 8:54 PM Rating: Good
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Done Mikhalia. Rated you up as well :D
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#16 Jul 15 2010 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Done, done and done. My Jedi power is mighty.

Now, if only someone can show me how to get the picture to show up in my signature, I will be a happy Lef.

On topic:

See also: Port forwarding.

Edited, Jul 15th 2010 11:16pm by Lefein
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#17 Jul 15 2010 at 9:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Lefein wrote:
Done, done and done. My Jedi power is mighty.

Now, if only someone can show me how to get the picture to show up in my signature, I will be a happy Lef.

Edited, Jul 15th 2010 11:06pm by Lefein


Try uploading it to your profile and then putting
CN Map 1 Path 4
(or whatever number it is) in your sig.


EDIT: looks like you already did that; it should be
Screenshot



Edited, Jul 15th 2010 11:11pm by Mikhalia
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#18 Jul 15 2010 at 9:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I do wonder, however, if some ISPs will have a problem with the P2P traffic *cough comcrapst*
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#19 Jul 15 2010 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
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Lefein wrote:
I do wonder, however, if some ISPs will have a problem with the P2P traffic *cough comcrapst*


You do make a good point; I know Comcast likes to throttle Peer to peer WAY down (They claim they don't, but it's pretty well known that they do).

Also, it doesn't seem like that fixed your sig; try asking over on the support forum, but come to think of it, I've never seen a sig pic on here that wasn't a character image pic, so you might not be able to after all.
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#20 Jul 15 2010 at 10:34 PM Rating: Excellent
I downloaded and updated the client in 5 hours on wifi connection... in my 5th wheel trailer while on vacation. I think some people just don't know quite what to do to use pnp correctly. I am not saying that I am in the Beta by saying this.

Edited, Jul 15th 2010 9:35pm by grindahll
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#21 Jul 16 2010 at 1:28 AM Rating: Default
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grindahll wrote:
I downloaded and updated the client in 5 hours on wifi connection... in my 5th wheel trailer while on vacation. I think some people just don't know quite what to do to use pnp correctly. I am not saying that I am in the Beta by saying this.


I think it's a bit silly of SE to expect you to have a degree in computer science in order to be able to update their alpha/beta client.

Mikhalia wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who went around SE's instructions deserves their ban. We, the people who want to play FFXIV, are trusting in you, the beta testers, to help SE straighten out the problems; not to find your own work-arounds so that you can play the game early; "testing" be damned. sh*t is supposed to not work. You agreed to help SE fix it.

If that's going to be a problem, there are a number of people who would be happy to actually TEST the **** game in your stead.


Sounds like someone is really whiny about not being selected into the beta. Your type of self-righteous and sycophantic attitude is greatly unappreciated by most testers, by the way.
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#22 Jul 16 2010 at 3:59 AM Rating: Good
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OK all this just ruined it for me, even though I preordered FFIXV, I will cancel my preorder because I can't bare to have long update times again.

I'm joining forces with the dude who can't play just because PS3 version got delayed. All of us who announce quitting before the game has been released will unite and teach SE a lesson. SE has tortured us for so long, too long...

Alright, if you can't tell already, I'm being sarcastic. Just give SE a break, they are moving in the right direction by going to P2P, they just need to tweak some things to get people better download speeds.


Agreed! That's why I've stuck with the client. It's been going three days and only done 6.3%. They must have done some tweaking since yesterday however as now I'm going to have it in at the most 10 hours. The times and DL/UL speeds are still fluctuating wildly but it's improved no end.

#23 Jul 16 2010 at 6:38 AM Rating: Decent
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You're such a douche,


ouch my e-***** just got squashed.

You still come in crying again. my god these children never stop.

Then it comes down to name calling, very mature, you sure are acting your age....


Quote:
I think it's a bit silly of SE to expect you to have a degree in computer science in order to be able to update their alpha/beta client.


Since when was forwarding ports a degree in computer science... granted i have one but i thought reading the book that came with your router and turning off windows firewall was not an issue?

And i am on an ISP that does traffic shaping for torrents and i seemed to download just fine. I can download things from the web @ 1mb+ a sec but never hit over 250~ish on torrents. Yet somehow i do magical things.


All i see are 2 types of people in this thread, those that have done and applaud SE for doing it, like me. and those ******** about us applauding it, i could point out 4 or 5 so far, just because they couldn't get it done in a decent amount of time.

Quote:
OK all this just ruined it for me, even though I preordered FFIXV, I will cancel my preorder because I can't bare to have long update times again.


Chill out and relax, this is the beta, if it doesn't work and you aren't in the beta it does not matter, wait and hopefully it will get fixed. Like somehow the updating system affects how the game plays? Yes... because SE is too dumb to fix that.


Quote:
The times and DL/UL speeds are still fluctuating wildly but it's improved no end.


how many remote connections do you have? If it's sitting at 0 and all you have is... 20ish local connections then there is your problem.

Edited, Jul 16th 2010 6:42am by boriss
#24 Jul 16 2010 at 6:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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50+ remote connections - have done all the time. Yesterday it was downloading between 10 - 1Kb/s, now i'm getting 60kb/s+

Its been on all morning ans has gotten steadilly faster and more constant. What ever SE have done since yesterday has helped emmensly!

I stuck with the client knowing SE needed people to use it so they could identify and fix these problems. I know what Beta means. So FYI, I never complained about it, have been saying it all this time, they created this problem so they can fix it.

And there you go again assuming that I have no idea what I'm doing, douche! ;)
#25 Jul 16 2010 at 7:20 AM Rating: Default
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And there you go again assuming


please... quote me.

Ironic that it magically works for you today and didn't yesterday. Not saying you did or didn't do anything but all this rage and guess what, all you had to was wait 1 week for a beta test you aren't in and it went faster. Wow... imagine what you get with patience.
#26 Jul 16 2010 at 7:32 AM Rating: Good
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Mase wrote:
grindahll wrote:
I downloaded and updated the client in 5 hours on wifi connection... in my 5th wheel trailer while on vacation. I think some people just don't know quite what to do to use pnp correctly. I am not saying that I am in the Beta by saying this.


I think it's a bit silly of SE to expect you to have a degree in computer science in order to be able to update their alpha/beta client.

Mikhalia wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who went around SE's instructions deserves their ban. We, the people who want to play FFXIV, are trusting in you, the beta testers, to help SE straighten out the problems; not to find your own work-arounds so that you can play the game early; "testing" be damned. sh*t is supposed to not work. You agreed to help SE fix it.

If that's going to be a problem, there are a number of people who would be happy to actually TEST the **** game in your stead.


Sounds like someone is really whiny about not being selected into the beta. Your type of self-righteous and sycophantic attitude is greatly unappreciated by most testers, by the way.


Sounds like someone signed up to be a beta tester without knowing what a beta tester's responsibilities are supposed to be.

"Herp derp, I'm playing the game early!"

You really don't know what port forwarding is, or that a Beta "tester" is supposed to "test" things that are EXPECTED to not work?

Edited, Jul 16th 2010 9:34am by Mikhalia
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#27 Jul 16 2010 at 7:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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but all this rage


Urm...what rage? I'm not at all angry about the problems I've been having. I have expected them, you know since it's the Beta and not the actual release. I've sat and watched the client tick away and sighed, disappointed, but not anger. I've surprised myself actually - a couple of years ago I would have been seething lol

I've just been trying to tell you, I've done everything possible at my end to improve the client and nothing has worked, suddenly today, it's working as intended. That's progress in my eyes and I'm more hopeful for the September release. But your instant reaction has been to mock every one having these problems, assuming they don't know what they're doing.
#28 Jul 16 2010 at 8:17 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Sounds like someone signed up to be a beta tester without knowing what a beta tester's responsibilities are supposed to be.

"Herp derp, I'm playing the game early!"

You really don't know what port forwarding is, or that a Beta "tester" is supposed to "test" things that are EXPECTED to not work?


Sadly, this IS the mindset of most of the people in beta. They are just there to gloat about being "specially" selected to "test" the game, when in fact all they are trying to do is play as much as they can so they are know-it-alls when the game is released.
#29 Jul 16 2010 at 8:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well for every leech that gets invited I like ot think there is at least one more serious enough about the task to make a difference.
#30 Jul 16 2010 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
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Well from my point of view the third party down loader was a great help. The official down loader was never going above 20 KB/s. This was for about 2 days straight. I went through the third-party program and was getting 100 KB/s. I know all about port forwarding and uPNP. Literally nothing was working.

For giggles, I wanted to try this out on Windows 7, which is now averaging 200kB/s with spikes up to 500. No clue what is different. I've tried just port forwarding, just uPNP and both. XP was ridiculously slow, 7 is cruising along. Could be just a coincidence as well. Maybe turning my monitor east-south-east instead of just Southeast helped in some way.
#31 Jul 16 2010 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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Well I run Vista... so maybe they done some tweaking to the client to accomodate the varying OS?

Bleh - I'm just guessing, but there is a real difference to the DL speed today on the client.
#32 Jul 16 2010 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Has nothing to do with Windows 7.
#33 Jul 16 2010 at 11:10 AM Rating: Default
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I can see why akelah is frustrated... as a beta tester you want to test the game, not spend all day testing the beta updater client.

Still, doesn't SE have special beta forums to discuss issues like this, so wouldn't have been better to bring the issue up there rather than here, because you're actually breaking the NDA by discussing it here.

If I was selected for Beta I would have reported the issue with the download speed for the beta updater client, and then tried alternative ways do download the update (such as using a friend's internet connection). Trying to narrow down the cause of the slow download and then reporting to SE of what you find will benefit SE and also help you get passed that hiccup so you can continue testing the actual game. SE doesn't want you to get stuck on 1 issue and completely block you from being able to test anything else.
#34 Jul 16 2010 at 11:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tenfooterten wrote:
ImmT wrote:
Cyiode wrote:
I thought I heard the SE's FFXIV updater will be P2P, which will most likely prevent the need of a third party updater.


The beta updater is p2p, and it is godawful.


This isn't true. The problem is so many people have no clue how to use P2P. I suggest people start reading up on port forwarding before the game comes out.


Any client decision that requires greater technical savvy by the user than pressing "Next->Next->Finish" is bad design.

If P2P is only effective as long as every one understands port forwarding, then it is not effective, it is a huge failure.

#35 Jul 16 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
If I was selected for Beta I would have reported the issue with the download speed for the beta updater client, and then tried alternative ways do download the update (such as using a friend's internet connection).


I've reported it there yeah as have/are many others. There was just a bit of debate yesterday about using the other torrent programs. I just wanted to make sure it was cleared up since the admin didn't out right announce against using them, it was sorta burried in a very long thread about the issue.

IN all honesty, I'm happy to use the client and watch it tick away. If my feedback and trying different suggestions and then reporting back what made a difference has helped them identify the problem, then I'm doing my part.
#36 Jul 16 2010 at 12:29 PM Rating: Default
KarlHungis wrote:
Tenfooterten wrote:
ImmT wrote:
Cyiode wrote:
I thought I heard the SE's FFXIV updater will be P2P, which will most likely prevent the need of a third party updater.


The beta updater is p2p, and it is godawful.


This isn't true. The problem is so many people have no clue how to use P2P. I suggest people start reading up on port forwarding before the game comes out.


Any client decision that requires greater technical savvy by the user than pressing "Next->Next->Finish" is bad design.

If P2P is only effective as long as every one understands port forwarding, then it is not effective, it is a huge failure.


Seriously? Do you have any idea how many people use Bittorrent clients? It is hugely popular. It doesn't require tech savvy, it only requires you to follow a couple of easy directions. A huge failure, was not making updates/clients have a P2P option before. I watched my bro download the client at 600 kb/sec. People were still using the official downloader. When a bunch of people that don't understand what P2P is decided to ***** about how slow it is (because they didn't follow the simple directions) on the forums, everyone that read it went to a third party program. That's why the official P2P client is so slow right now. When everyone uses it, it is fast.
#37 Jul 16 2010 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
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This is a just a question, it's not a big deal to me whatever the response. That being said, do you guys believe that SE will use P2P for ALL future updates as well or just the Beta? I'm just curious, nothing else.
#38 Jul 16 2010 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
This is a just a question, it's not a big deal to me whatever the response. That being said, do you guys believe that SE will use P2P for ALL future updates as well or just the Beta? I'm just curious, nothing else.


I don't know for sure in all honesty - but they wouldn't be testing it now if they didn't want to know for sure it would be working for release.
#39Mase, Posted: Jul 16 2010 at 1:19 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This was almost exactly my experience. I spent nearly two days following procedure and using their client, to only get about 80% of the download. At that point, I ran the download through uTorrent, and the 3rd party download was done before SE's client reached 85%.
#40 Jul 16 2010 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
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I'm about to turn into a total curmudgeon here, but when I grew up, we had DOS. I didn't get my first GUI based system for NINE YEARS (1986-1995) after my first computer.

For ****'s sake, I remember when simply USING a computer required a certain degree of technical savvy. There was no mouse, there were no icons, you navigated by typing in cd and then the name of the directory you wanted to navigate to, and you launched a program by typing program.exe or whatever it was called.

Is it a good thing that computers have become significantly more user friendly? Yes, it is. It makes a great tool far more accessible to many people. Because computers are accessible to EVERYONE, everyone has a computer. This is also a good thing.

Where it STOPS being a good thing is when people who own computers know absolutely nothing about simple crap.


User: "My new car won't turn on"
Clerk: "What are you doing to try to get it to run?"
User: "I keep pressing this button and nothing is happening!"
Clerk: "Are you putting the key in the ignition?"
User: "Key? Ignition? What's that?"
Clerk: "Your key is that piece of metal we gave you when you bought the car. You want to put it into the ignition on the side of the steering column, under the wheel"
User: "Which wheel? There are four of them! This is so confusing"
Clerk: "No sir, the steering wheel; it's in the vehicle, on the driver's side, in front of the seat."
User: "Ignition... driver's side seat... steering column... why do you people have to use all this technical jargon and make this so hard?!?!?!"

User: "I've been using your key in your ignition and it worked, but now it stopped working! It won't run anymore!"
Clerk: "Do you have any gas in your gas tank?"
User: "I don't know how to put gas in a car! Why didn't you tell me I would have to put gas in it? I demand you replace my car with one that has gas!"

User: "Okay, so I tried your stupid ignition and I even put gas in your stupid car but my car still won't work!"
Clerk: "What happened when it stopped working?"
User: "Well it was going too slow and I wanted it faster!"
Clerk: "Okay, and then what happened?"
User: "Well it crashed. It doesn't work anymore. Can you come fix it? I just want my car to WORK and I want it to be FAST and I don't understand why you people have to make this difficult! I'm not a car person! I shouldn't have to deal with this ****!"

I mean yeah, I get that you buy something and you expect it to work. That's a given. What blows my mind is that when something doesn't work, people freak the **** out over the tiniest things, and when given clear, concise directions on how to fix it, they get all indignant; how DARE they be expected to know something about a product they spent several hundred dollars for?
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#41 Jul 16 2010 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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Mase wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:
Sounds like someone signed up to be a beta tester without knowing what a beta tester's responsibilities are supposed to be.

"Herp derp, I'm playing the game early!"


I imagine that must burn all the more; knowing that people like me test the game while you got left out. Aw. I also imagine that you are the kind of sycophant that tattles on your coworkers to your boss, how close am I? If not, then you're just ****-hurt about not being selected, and you would not have this holier-than-thou attitude were you actually testing.

And don't kid yourself. I'm not trying to gloat, I'm aware of how random the selection process is, there's nothing to be prideful about. I'm also not trying to be mean; I'm simply sick of people (mostly on the official boards) with this disgusting fan-boy attitude towards their "duty to SE." Relax folks, we're testing a game, not a new heart surgery procedure.


People who TEST the game don't bother me. The people who waste TESTER spots by treating the beta like an early release are.

I'm not saying "give me their spot". I'm fine with not being in the test phase; I've tested other products. I'm saying give those wasted spots to someone who WILL actually TEST the product.

I don't care if that person is me or not. If I had come in here saying "I should take their place", I could see how that might make me a selfish sycophant. But seeing as how my gripe is not "Why am I not testing it?" but rather "If people aren't going to TEST it, then they shouldn't be in the beta TEST", then there's nothing sycophantic about it.

Expecting people to do the job they signed up for makes me neither a sycophant nor a fanboy. It just means I'm a consumer who expects a finished product that has been tested. Would you buy a game if the character designs were horrible because the designers wasted their time drawing pictures of penises in photoshop instead of character art? Same concept.

People (testers) were invited to test a game that doesn't work, find the things that don't work, report the things that don't work, and provide feedback so SE can make them work. They were not invited to play the game before everyone else and whine about how nothing works.

Again, I don't even care if I'm not the one testing it, I just expect the people testing it to TEST IT. Is your position really trying to state that it's SELFISH for me to expect people who AGREED TO TEST A PRODUCT to actually test that product?

For the record, if I -were- testing the game, yes, I still would expect the other testers to do their jobs. It's not holier than thou to expect people to do what they signed on agreeing to do. If I had a coworker who was hired to organize files and all he did all day was throw paper airplanes, you're **** right I'd inform the boss about it.

Edited, Jul 16th 2010 3:44pm by Mikhalia
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#42Mase, Posted: Jul 16 2010 at 2:15 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I suppose the issue is the fact that I did as I was told, I followed the official protocol of reporting the slow client downloader (as did hundreds of others) through the feedback page, and then I used the 3rd party downloader to be able to graduate to the next phase of the game (actually playing it), as did hundreds of others. I fail to see any negligence to our duty there.
#43 Jul 16 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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An admin has confirmed that there is to be no use of third party programs to update the game. As far as I know they haven't made an obvious announcment, merely reporting what I saw on a thread that was since locked, so many of you may not have seen it.
uhhhhhh, I am unwilling to go into too much detail, but given materials and instructions provided by SE, I feel this is most likely untrue.


*whistles*
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#44 Jul 16 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia wrote:
For @#%^'s sake, I remember when simply USING a computer required a certain degree of technical savvy. There was no mouse, there were no icons, you navigated by typing in cd and then the name of the directory you wanted to navigate to, and you launched a program by typing program.exe or whatever it was called.


c:\> cd games
c:\games\> cd doom
c:\games\doom> doom.exe

ADDQD
ADKFA



profit


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#45 Jul 16 2010 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
Mase wrote:
I suppose the issue is the fact that I did as I was told, I followed the official protocol of reporting the slow client downloader (as did hundreds of others) through the feedback page, and then I used the 3rd party downloader to be able to graduate to the next phase of the game (actually playing it), as did hundreds of others. I fail to see any negligence to our duty there.

If the problem has been reported, what use is there in us users being stuck with the problem, if we can fix it by our own means while SE fixes it generally? As I see, if people are so concerned with actually testing the game, than let us get into the game by any means necessary after reporting the initial download hiccups.

Moreover, in my experience the beta client is one large improvement over the alpha client. All my gripe has been towards the alpha client, not the current one. I've had no reasons yet to use a 3rd party downloader for the beta.


This whole post makes my point.
Quote:
I suppose the issue is the fact that I did as I was told, I followed the official protocol of reporting the slow client downloader (as did hundreds of others) through the feedback page, and then I used the 3rd party downloader to be able to graduate to the next phase of the game (actually playing it), as did hundreds of others. I fail to see any negligence to our duty there.

The client downloader isn't "slow". There is nothing wrong with it. P2P requires everyone to use it for it to work properly.
Here is the problem:
Quote:
and then I used the 3rd party downloader to be able to graduate to the next phase of the game (actually playing it), as did hundreds of others.

Quote:
If the problem has been reported, what use is there in us users being stuck with the problem, if we can fix it by our own means while SE fixes it generally

The only thing to fix here, is they should have let people know ahead of time that this would be P2P (Peer to Peer).
If everyone that got invited all downloaded this client at the same time from the official source, everyone would have gotten good speeds. As long as everyone had the proper ports open. Also, it is highly associated with your ISP. If you're on Dial up, you're not going to get good speeds. Your dl speed is capped at your highest internet speed.

Edit: Also, this is something like a 12 gig DL. It's not like grabbing a 5MB song from I-tunes.



Edited, Jul 16th 2010 5:29pm by Tenfooterten
#46 Jul 16 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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uhhhhhh, I am unwilling to go into too much detail, but given materials and instructions provided by SE, I feel this is most likely untrue.


*whistles*


LOL! Well yeah, obviously the use of any third party program is limited in SEs eyes buuuut, many other MMO devs use torrent clients or even direct down loads for patches, a lot of people now-a-days don't see these means as anything other than a way to get something they have every right to access. WAR did it, LOTRO did it. The only problem I can see SE having is that they don't get to fully test their own software, which is bad, since its the beta and the whole point of it is to test stuff.

I can understand why people are getting impatient, like someone already said. The problem was reported, now he wants to go ahead and test something more than the client.

Personally I've stuck it out with the client itself. Once it gets going, it's pretty nifty and I'm taking a certain amount of satisfaction in the fact while I'm getting it (finally) others are able to get it through me.

I can't really explain to much about why I opened this thread, I guess because of the trouble some people have been having, they thought using another means was justified. I just wanted to let people know... that it isn't. It's easier during this particular problem, but it's not really...helpful. The admin have asked people not to use a third party program, I just wanted to spread the word :)
#47 Jul 16 2010 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm...

I'd have to say that bypassing the issue is not proper testing. If you are assigned to test something in steps and one of those steps don't work, technically you should report the problem and then start over from the first step. They don't CARE if you want to get to the next step... They want to make certain that step 3 works. If step 3 doesn't work, there goes the ability to patch the game upon release.

Going through a third party route doesn't display the necessity of fixing step 3. Even if hundreds of reports enter their database, what good is it if they can't reproduce the issue or ask you some questions about the problem that you are able to reproduce?
#48 Jul 16 2010 at 4:30 PM Rating: Default
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Tenfooterten wrote:
The only thing to fix here, is they should have let people know ahead of time that this would be P2P (Peer to Peer).
If everyone that got invited all downloaded this client at the same time from the official source, everyone would have gotten good speeds. As long as everyone had the proper ports open. Also, it is highly associated with your ISP. If you're on Dial up, you're not going to get good speeds. Your dl speed is capped at your highest internet speed.


So, essentially, what you're suggesting is that SE should expect its entire clientele to be able to log on at the same time and download their update, when SE mandates it so? I think you're so far up SE's *** that you can't seem to reason well.

As I have stated, I, and many many others, followed SE's tips and suggestions for quick download speeds and were still stuck with download times in the spans of days.

Quote:
Edit: Also, this is something like a 12 gig DL. It's not like grabbing a 5MB song from I-tunes.


Well using a third party program as opposed to the alpha client sure made it feel like it was.
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#49 Jul 16 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Deila wrote:
Hmm...

I'd have to say that bypassing the issue is not proper testing. If you are assigned to test something in steps and one of those steps don't work, technically you should report the problem and then start over from the first step. They don't CARE if you want to get to the next step... They want to make certain that step 3 works. If step 3 doesn't work, there goes the ability to patch the game upon release.

Going through a third party route doesn't display the necessity of fixing step 3. Even if hundreds of reports enter their database, what good is it if they can't reproduce the issue or ask you some questions about the problem that you are able to reproduce?


Exactly.

The testers' job isn't just to test the things they want to test, they're supposed to be testing the entire system.
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#50 Jul 16 2010 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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While I totally understand the reasoning 'it needs to be tested and not by-passed' SE need to acknowledge the fact that P2P is not for everyone. I'm not talking about preferences either, I'm talking about people who have ISPs who limit torrents in general in a bid to prevent piracy.

We do need another way to get the patches if not just for those with this specific problem. And yes, this has all been fed back.
#51 Jul 16 2010 at 4:39 PM Rating: Default
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Pickins wrote:
Exactly.

The testers' job isn't just to test the things they want to test, they're supposed to be testing the entire system.


The problem was noticed, reported using the appropriate protocol, and then circumvented. Having the testers stuck with the problem they can't otherwise fix themselves benefits nobody.
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