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Did I throw away $300 on video card?Follow

#1 Jul 15 2010 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Readout from benchmark with my original hardware:

Win Vista Home PRemium 6.0, Service Pack 2
AMD Athlon 64 x 2 Dual Core Processor 5600+ (2 CPUs) ~2.8 GHz
Nvidia 8800 GT

That scored me a 2168 on low and a 1563 on high

New video card: Nvidia GeForce GTX 470

Now I get 2080 on high, and... 2167 on low?!?

Is my processor my bottleneck? I've replaced everything on a computer except for motherboard, it just was the one thing I was never courageous enough to touch.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance
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#2 Jul 15 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Default
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Huge processor bottleneck. Get AMD X4, Intel i7 or better.
#3 Jul 15 2010 at 6:07 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm sorry dude.. either upgrade your mobo/cpu/ram or just return the card and buy a 9800GTX for $120. Your score will actually go up. Weird isn't it. That really sucks though, you must be so disappointed. I've gone and done something very similar before :/ Only I bought a PCI-E card and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't fit in my AGP mobo. Ah the good ol' days.

Edited, Jul 15th 2010 5:09pm by GuardianFaith
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#4 Jul 15 2010 at 6:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Eh, I'll give the processor a go, I'm looking into how to do it. I think I should be able to handle it. Thanks for the help.
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#5 Jul 15 2010 at 6:13 PM Rating: Decent
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What power supply are you currently using? 8800GT requires a min of 400W power supply while GTX 470 requires 550W.
#6Ryneguy, Posted: Jul 15 2010 at 6:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) First: Don't return the GTX 470. That card is rather powerful. And I would, in no way, immediately assume that your CPU is the bottleneck. I assume it's a Brisbane 2.8Ghz AMD X2?
#7 Jul 15 2010 at 6:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Really^? I'm 100% sure its your CPU and PCI-E controller bottlenecking your GPU. The FFXIV beta absolutely does utilize all 6 of my cores. You have to understand that new CPU architecture is much faster and more efficient than the previous generations, Core for Core. Take a look at the score below, and compare the huge difference between systems with similar GPUs but different CPUs.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3927/highl.jpg

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/4440/lowy.jpg
#8 Jul 15 2010 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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Ryneguy wrote:
From what I've read, FFXIV is not benefiting from multi-core processors


This is absolutely FALSE! I will say that the difference after the 4th core is VERY MINIMAL!! But 2 to 4 cores is a HUGE difference. The most important part is making sure that the new chip is the same architecture as your current one, everything else should be pretty straight forward.
#9 Jul 15 2010 at 6:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Keep the card. See if the game runs good enough when it releases. Save your money for a new system down the road. The GPU is ALWAYS a worthwhile investment no matter what price you pay. It wasn't wasted money. It may be performing a little subpar due to system restrictions but you should be able to play Final Fantasy XIV with absolutely no problems :)

I benchmarked in a Pentium 4 3.0Ghz and score about 1000 roughly. However, no lag, no stuttering. Loaded up a lot of HD games Crysis/etc, no lag. Not sure what it means but I did upgrade to the system in my signature today and scores were higher. OS is snappier, programs are snappier but Benchmark ran absolutely the same as the Pentium 4 so who knows. Not the same score but eh. You'll be fine wait til the game comes out.

Edited, Jul 15th 2010 8:50pm by Excenmille
#10 Jul 15 2010 at 7:17 PM Rating: Good
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Like someone else mentioned I'd take a look at your power supply.
#11 Jul 15 2010 at 8:07 PM Rating: Decent
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As info:

Power Supply 750 W (was a pachage with the vid card from newegg)
Memory: 6GB


Thanks for all the help, over the years, I've basically replaced everything except the motherboard/cpu/case. I may just look for a nice case/motherboard combo on newegg and transfer everything else into it.

Otherwise, I'm looking into the specs on my current CPU (ie. what I would need to have for compatability if I did replace it) Would it be as simple as take the old one out, take it to a Fry's or other type store and get some help from them to find something compatable?

Edited, Jul 15th 2010 11:13pm by Papips
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#12 Jul 15 2010 at 8:26 PM Rating: Good
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Definitely upgrade to a quad core. That's a pretty high end card you bought, and the processor is terribad. I think it was Lovi (correct me if I misquoted) who described what you have just done as "Putting a giant carburetor on a lawnmower engine".

If you look at the CPU utilization and benchmark statistics, there is a HUGE increase in going from dual core to quad core. Anyone who says a dual core is fine is just trying to convince themselves that they don't need to upgrade. Don't let their decision to run the game poorly hurt you.

Quad core, all the way. Hexacore are better, but at least go quad.
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#13 Jul 15 2010 at 8:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Papips wrote:
As info:

Power Supply 750 W (was a pachage with the vid card from newegg)
Memory: 6G



It seems you have installed triple channel ram on a motherboard not built to accept it...I don't know much about what would happen should you do that...one would assume that you simply would have a preponderance of blue screens if you attempted to install triple channel ram but maybe it could adversely effect your performance. Or maybe nothing would happen...never done it so I don't know.
#14 Jul 15 2010 at 8:36 PM Rating: Good
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Sorry about that, my mouse is tweaking out and double clicking left and right.

Edited, Jul 15th 2010 8:37pm by Yogtheterrible
#15 Jul 15 2010 at 9:23 PM Rating: Decent
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More info, but I think I have a decent plan of what I need to do.

motherboard: HP part # 5188-8534 with Socket AM2

BIOS are current as per hp website (even though they are from 10/29/07, do they really updtae that infrequently? I put my machine specs into their driver/firmware/bios update finder, and there was no BIOS update to be had)

So... I gues I'll wait and see once it comes out how I run. If it runs fine it runs fine, if it doesn't, I'll have another little project to do.

Thanks

Edited, Jul 15th 2010 11:29pm by Papips
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#16 Jul 15 2010 at 9:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yogtheterrible wrote:
Papips wrote:
As info:

Power Supply 750 W (was a pachage with the vid card from newegg)
Memory: 6G



It seems you have installed triple channel ram on a motherboard not built to accept it...I don't know much about what would happen should you do that...one would assume that you simply would have a preponderance of blue screens if you attempted to install triple channel ram but maybe it could adversely effect your performance. Or maybe nothing would happen...never done it so I don't know.


Could be running 2x2 + 2x1...
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#17 Jul 16 2010 at 8:10 AM Rating: Decent
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CPU is bottlenecking, upgrade your mobo and get a new cpu...and your sorted :)
#18 Jul 16 2010 at 8:13 AM Rating: Default
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CPU is probably not limiting, the amount the test uses the CPU is minimal.

You should have gone up regardless, if you think your CPU is the bottleneck just check your event viewer. If you are not using all your ram and your CPU is pinned @ 100% then it could be a sign of something.

Personally i suggest going to a computer forum, i've seen so many people on here giving false information claiming they know it all. Like the last time someone kept saying windows xp 64 bit was a great alternate option... haha... vomit.

Theres a ton of things to test, are you 64bit windows? Are you using your memory in tri channel config?
#19 Jul 16 2010 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
CPU is probably not limiting, the amount the test uses the CPU is minimal.

You should have gone up regardless, if you think your CPU is the bottleneck just check your event viewer. If you are not using all your ram and your CPU is pinned @ 100% then it could be a sign of something.

Personally i suggest going to a computer forum, i've seen so many people on here giving false information claiming they know it all. Like the last time someone kept saying windows xp 64 bit was a great alternate option... haha... vomit.

Theres a ton of things to test, are you 64bit windows? Are you using your memory in tri channel config?







First OFF, amd boards don't support tri-channel setups, only dual channel, and secondly that CPU is old! AM2 is last gen, you can't just go dumping new hardware in with old outdated hardware and expect miracles, so you can stop going around saying people don't know what there talking about, when obviously you don't either
#20boriss, Posted: Jul 16 2010 at 8:23 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) When did i claim to know.. . please tell me. PLEASE TELL ME
#21 Jul 16 2010 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
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That CPU is definitely a bottleneck. While there are certainly other things in your system configuration that could be weighing down the benchmark, don't believe the people telling you that your CPU is fine. You don't necessarily need an i7 or a Phenom II, though, if you're not looking to spend crazy amounts of money. Something like an E8400 would probably suit you well, which although is a bit behind generationally, can still hold its own and is certainly not a bottleneck to current-gen graphics cards. Just make sure you've got a decent amount of RAM, see if you can migrate away from Vista, and you should be golden.
#22 Jul 16 2010 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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You can get improvements from just adding a video card, but you won't maximize the improvements until you upgrade the processor as well. I know because I went from 7600GT and Core 2 Duo (would not evne run the bechmark program without locking up) to a HD5770. Just by adding the video card I ran both high and low setting in the 2300 range.

My friend did the exact same thing.... only he followed it up with an i7 930 and his marks went up even further to mid 4000's on low setting and upper 2000's on high.

So I think just adding a video card will get you half way there, adding a CPU will get you the rest of the way. There's always a "bottleneck". It is preferable for the video card to be the bottleneck since the game isn't actually that demanding on the CPU.


#23 Jul 16 2010 at 9:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Looks to me like you are using a PCI-E slot with 4x or 8x lanes instead of 16x.
#24 Jul 16 2010 at 9:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Looks to me like you are using a PCI-E slot with 4x or 8x lanes instead of 16x.


Running the card in a x4/x8 slot will probably make little difference

theres a good 'scaling' write up here

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling/1.html

its for the HD 5870, which is pretty much on par with the GTX 470 performance wise

Edited, Jul 16th 2010 11:30am by AckersFury
#25 Jul 17 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Everyone is simplifying performance to CPU and GPU.

When you upgrade CPU, you usually get new motherboard with faster memory and stuff.

So it's true that most modern games are GPU intensive, and CPU is not the bottleneck, upgrading CPU to a next gen CPU (thus upgrading mother board and everything else), will improve performance significantly.

So say of you have a extra $100 to spend and you can either:

1. Pay $100 for a higher GHz of the same generation of CPU
2. Pay $100 for a better graphics card

Spend the $$ on the graphics card. CPU won't be your bottleneck in this case.
#26 Jul 17 2010 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
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That GPU is one of the best on the market. Top 10. You'll need to replace your mobo and cpu. You'll definately want x4. The only other thing is your ram. You'll want a mobo that'll support ddr3 1600+. I'm guessing your cpu and your ram is what's bottle necking your system.
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