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#1 Jul 16 2010 at 9:21 PM Rating: Default
Let's all take a minute, and figure out what's going on.
1: There is a Beta going on.
2: You will need to open ports for the Beta client. (we don't know if this will carry over to updates.)
3: The PS3 version has been postponed due to lack of memory.
4: You will need to have a GOOD computer to run this game. (please see the sticky for computer building.)


2-1: You will need to know about port fowrading, if your router doesn't already have the ports open.
Suggestion: Read up on how Peer to Peer programs work, and also see the relevant threads on Port Forwarding.

SE has gone all 2010 on us. It's a bit of a shock to a lot of people, but it's a good move. Instead of us all arguing over what is and what isn't, i suggest you use this thread to give the facts. FFXIV Beta testers need not post here. I'm looking for people that can explain PS3 memory limitations, and how Peer to Peer programs work.

There are too many threads that cover these topics. My goal, is to get them into ONE topic.
#2Tenfooterten, Posted: Jul 16 2010 at 9:26 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If your going to default a topic, at least have the balls to reply to it.
#3 Jul 16 2010 at 9:48 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
You will need to know about port fowrading, if your router doesn't already have the ports open


There is *NO WAY* this issue will into RTM. Can you see the barely computer literate being forced to deal with router settings?!

Excuse me, I just had an image of it in my head, I need to go ROTFLMAO
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#4Tenfooterten, Posted: Jul 16 2010 at 11:19 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) As much as i would like to read your original thought...i get it. However, people need to be able to use P2P before they buy this game.
#5 Jul 16 2010 at 11:26 PM Rating: Default
Tenfooterten wrote:
If your going to default a topic, at least have the balls to reply to it.
#6Tenfooterten, Posted: Jul 16 2010 at 11:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I use a program called Utorrent. It's a P2P program that lets me download all sorts of stuff. I had to learn how to open ports to get it to work properly. That was almost 10 years ago.
#7Tenfooterten, Posted: Jul 17 2010 at 12:00 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Thats why the karma system is broken. People rate down stuff, but are too much of a @#%^ to say why.
#8 Jul 17 2010 at 12:30 AM Rating: Good
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Most likely it's going to work just like how the WOW updater works. You wont HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO USE P2P EFFICIENTLY, If you don't want to use P2P, you can do direct download, but it will be slower. If you use P2P and you want it to be faster, you need to open up some ports.

Look at the WoW updater FAQ:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/faq/blizzarddownloader.html

Seriously, there will be people playing this game on a PC or PS3, who have never used a P2P program. Don't knock them or think they are idiots just because they don't use a method for transferring files which is primarily used for piracy. SE will have a way for these people to get their updates, even if it means it will be slower. Also some ISPs block or restrict the use of P2P, so there will have to be alternative methods for downloading updates.
#9 Jul 17 2010 at 1:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah let's call people bad because they don't use programs to pirate things from companies etc.
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#10Tenfooterten, Posted: Jul 17 2010 at 1:14 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You are the biggest douchebag i have ever met. I hope this post makes you sleep well dumbass. Learn to read. Then, try to graduate highschool. I hope all you stupid asses neglect what i said. I'll be playing the game and laughing at your stupid ***. Maybe i didn't make my point. You stupid ****. Your not stealing from anyone when you use the SE downloader, but you don't know **** about that... or do you?
#11 Jul 17 2010 at 2:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tenfooterten wrote:
GuardianFaith wrote:
Yeah let's call people bad because they don't use programs to pirate things from companies etc.


You are the biggest douchebag i have ever met. I hope this post makes you sleep well dumbass. Learn to read. Then, try to graduate highschool. I hope all you stupid asses neglect what i said. I'll be playing the game and laughing at your stupid ***. Maybe i didn't make my point. You stupid @#%^. Your not stealing from anyone when you use the SE downloader, but you don't know sh*t about that... or do you?

Don't ever even talk to me you stupid @#%^. I hate ignorant asses like you.


You need anger management.
#12 Jul 17 2010 at 4:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tenfooterten wrote:
Tenfooterten wrote:
If your going to default a topic, at least have the balls to reply to it.


Fair enough. I actually rated up the OP from default. Then you said this:

Tenfooterten wrote:
GuardianFaith wrote:
Yeah let's call people bad because they don't use programs to pirate things from companies etc.


You are the biggest douchebag i have ever met. I hope this post makes you sleep well dumbass. Learn to read. Then, try to graduate highschool. I hope all you stupid asses neglect what i said. I'll be playing the game and laughing at your stupid ***. Maybe i didn't make my point. You stupid @#%^. Your not stealing from anyone when you use the SE downloader, but you don't know sh*t about that... or do you?

Don't ever even talk to me you stupid @#%^. I hate ignorant asses like you.


And then I rated you down for being insanely and unnecessarily abrasive and hostile.

So there you go.
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#13 Jul 17 2010 at 4:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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LOLUMADBRO?!



Edited, Jul 17th 2010 5:54am by GuardianFaith
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#14 Jul 17 2010 at 7:54 AM Rating: Default
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I'm beached az bro
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#15 Jul 17 2010 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia wrote:
Tenfooterten wrote:
If your going to default a topic, at least have the balls to reply to it.



Fair enough. I actually rated up the OP from default. Then you said this:



I did the same last night with the OP's first couple posts. Manage to rate him back up to decent. Figured it was a valid enough opinion/topic to at least give him a chance. If you managed to keep your posts civil and constructive then I would have probably continued to help you out.


Tenfooterten wrote:
You are the biggest douchebag i have ever met. I hope this post makes you sleep well dumbass. Learn to read. Then, try to graduate highschool. I hope all you stupid asses neglect what i said. I'll be playing the game and laughing at your stupid ***. Maybe i didn't make my point. You stupid @#%^. Your not stealing from anyone when you use the SE downloader, but you don't know sh*t about that... or do you?

Don't ever even talk to me you stupid @#%^. I hate ignorant asses like you.


Seriously? If you become this vulgar at the drop of the hat then yes, you're going to be rated down.

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#16 Jul 17 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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To reply to the P2P issue, most people who use P2P do it casually...the people who are downloading their seasons of Family Guy, films, music etc. Generally people are happy to leave these going overnight and don't bother to learn about how to improve their downloads. Like it or not, torrents are just like most things-games, music, etc; the large amount of people using them do so casually. So I think it's a little unfair to say 'anyone who doesn't investigate port forwarding is unintelligent', when the average person doesn't do it, doesn't need it, doesn't consider it.

Also I keep seeing people talk about karma on here...but I don't see any rate buttons? Does karma unlock after a certain amount of posts or something (serious business)?
#17 Jul 17 2010 at 11:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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I rated you down because:

a) I don't think that consolidating topics that aren't related to each other into one mega-topic is an efficient use of anyone's time;

b) the reason that message boards have different subject lines is so that subjects which are independent of one another may be dealt with independently;

c) your seem really quite rude.

Not that I needed to justify myself; your conduct in this thread has made the reason for down-rating self-evident.
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#18 Jul 17 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hmmm. OP was rated down. Let's all take a minute, and figure out what's going on.

1: Perhaps people don't like you, judging by your reaction it's not hard to figure out why.
2: Maybe they don't like your thread. Not that shocking, it's kind of sparse for what you advertise it to be.
3: Or it could be that people don't like self-proclaimed "Official Unofficial All-in-one End all be all Super thread!"
4: Probably the most common reason: You complained about your karma. The easiest way to insure further rate-downs is to take it personally. Makes you a very easy target with an incredibly entertaining payoff.

Them's the facts kid. Dust yourself off and try again some other time. And for all that is holy, don't make another post claiming that you really don't care about being rated down. People who truly don't care won't spend entire threads complaining about it.

In conclusion,

Balls.
#19 Jul 17 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Tenfooterten wrote:
I use a program called Utorrent. It's a P2P program that lets me download all sorts of stuff. I had to learn how to open ports to get it to work properly. That was almost 10 years ago.


Translation: I download crap I didn't buy, so every one should know how to do it.
#20 Jul 17 2010 at 2:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Tenfooterten wrote:
If your going to default a topic, at least have the balls to reply to it.

I wouldn't be surprised if your karma is so low, your posts pop default.
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#21 Jul 17 2010 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lady Bardalicious wrote:
Tenfooterten wrote:
If your going to default a topic, at least have the balls to reply to it.

I wouldn't be surprised if your karma is so low, your posts pop default.


If he keeps whining about karma and calling people names, I'm betting they'll be sub-default before too long.

That runway guy is heading in the same direction. You know, Mr. "I quit because FFXIV is releasing on the PS3 in March, and I'm going to keep posting on ZAM to complain about it."
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#22 Jul 17 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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In conclusion,

Balls.


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#23 Jul 17 2010 at 10:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Translation: I download crap I didn't buy, so every one should know how to do it.


There are many uses for P2P that do not involve copyright infringement. There are many uses for P2P that are considered copyright infringement due to the DMCA that would fall into legal "fair use" territory if it weren't for the DMCA blanket banning any attempt to circumvent encryption--EVEN FOR FAIR USE PURPOSES (Particularly, I'm referring to format shifting, or turning your legally purchased DVD into a video file, thereby allowing you to safely store your delicate, fragile physical media in a safe place.

P2P networking is just the modern day VHS tape (before that it was cassette tapes, before THAT it was phonograph radios, before THAT it was sheet music) At every turn these industries have screamed "It'll ruin us, you MUST stop it".


But they can't stop it. They could've capitalized on it by offering digital downloads at REASONABLE prices, and the grosses for Avatar alone prove difinitively that you *CAN* compete with free. They didn't understand technology, and now they're being replaced by it. It's how the world works ;)




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#24 Jul 17 2010 at 10:43 PM Rating: Default
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This thread is half useless anyway (yay ego) so no harm in my throwing my 2 cents in.

With any luck the install process will open the ports you need anyway, Blizzard installed it's own firewall exceptions and port forwarding settings for me. I never put them there, but when I went in to open up for Borderlands (before they patched it) I saw 'em. And besides that, After a patch Borderlands didn't require extra port forwarding to work anymore so I'm assuming SE will figure out how to get the downloader to run well without tech savvy at a later date.
#25 Jul 17 2010 at 11:48 PM Rating: Good
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seneleron wrote:
Quote:
Translation: I download crap I didn't buy, so every one should know how to do it.


There are many uses for P2P that do not involve copyright infringement. There are many uses for P2P that are considered copyright infringement due to the DMCA that would fall into legal "fair use" territory if it weren't for the DMCA blanket banning any attempt to circumvent encryption--EVEN FOR FAIR USE PURPOSES (Particularly, I'm referring to format shifting, or turning your legally purchased DVD into a video file, thereby allowing you to safely store your delicate, fragile physical media in a safe place.

P2P networking is just the modern day VHS tape (before that it was cassette tapes, before THAT it was phonograph radios, before THAT it was sheet music) At every turn these industries have screamed "It'll ruin us, you MUST stop it".


But they can't stop it. They could've capitalized on it by offering digital downloads at REASONABLE prices, and the grosses for Avatar alone prove difinitively that you *CAN* compete with free. They didn't understand technology, and now they're being replaced by it. It's how the world works ;)


That's all well and good, but utorrent is probably used for about 95% piracy and 5% legitimate use. In fact it's pretty obvious that the OP was not talking about using utorrent for legitimate purposes.

I'm not here to argue or lecture any one about piracy, I just think the OP is a tool for acting like people are some how stupid for not being familiar with the ins and outs of a technology that has very little legitimate mainstream use. It's like treating people like they're stupid because they don't know how to make a silencer. I'm sure it's pretty easy to do, and if you're a hit man you have a pretty good reason to care. The rest of us? Not so much. If you're some one who has a need to watch movies and play games and music that you didn't purchase, then knowing how to optimize a P2P transfer is a good ability to have. For the rest of us, it's not that important.

I'm sure that if I need to figure out how to optimize a P2P transfer, I could do it, but a much smarter approach by S-E or any other software developer would be to create a P2P client that requires minimal technical savvy on the part of the user. It's not like no body else on earth has figured out how to make a simple P2P patcher.

Edited, Jul 18th 2010 1:49am by KarlHungis

Edited, Jul 18th 2010 1:51am by KarlHungis
#26 Jul 18 2010 at 12:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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First off, there -are- valid reasons for P2P clients that have nothing to do with "illegal file sharing". These reasons make up a very small portion of the people who use them though. Fact is, when someone is talking about torrents or peer to peer downloads, they're almost always referring to downloading music/movies/games for free.

Now I will say that I don't support or encourage downloading games for free. Ever notice how, over the years, your local game stores have shifted from an evenly distributed amount of computer/console games to now having 5-10 shelves per console and one, MAYBE two lonely PC game shelves? There's a reason. If you've ever downloaded -NEW- PC games that were still available for retail sale, or burned a copy of a friend's disk, then -you- are part of that reason.

Now, and I realize I'm being a smidge hypocritical here, but I also believe that as far as movies and music... Fair game.

When it comes to music, it seems that many groups will happily charge you $15-20 for a CD with 10-15 songs on it. Of those 10-15 songs, how often is it that you like every track? Have you ever found yourself buying a CD (or downloading it) and finding that you like less than a quarter?

Download the songs. If you like the music, then support your favorite bands by buying their CDs if and only if you feel the CD as a whole is worth the price. Alternatively, you can buy the tracks separately but they usually have DRM protection on them.

As for movies... it seems like they've got a **** of a racket. 10 bucks per person for tickets to see it in theaters (plus overprices snacks, soda, popcorn), and they want another $20-25 to buy it when it comes out on DVD.

Now, I know I'm going to come off as seeming overly entitled here, but as someone who currently has $37 in my bank account and needs to make that stretch till the end of this week... I really couldn't care less if actors who make multimillion dollar paychecks and live in multimillion dollar houses have to suffer. If you're making $20,000,000 a year and people downloading your movies causes you to lose HALF of that, you know what? That's still 10 million dollars that many people would be GLAD to have.

The thing that has always bothered me about the record industries and the actors who complain about people not wanting to pay to see/hear their work is that they charge way to friggin much when they already make plenty of money.

Let's check Ticketmaster, shall we?

KISS concert - up to $1000 per seat.
Roger Waters - up to $750 per seat.
Justin ******* talentless hack Bieber - up to $350 per seat (I need to wash my hard drive with bleach just for looking that up)

(Amusing sidenote: the capcha on ticketmaster.com was "con Napster". I'm not kidding.)

Did you know that Charlie Sheen was making 800,000 PER EPISODE for Two and a Half Men and almost didn't come back for another season because the season 11 raise he was initially offered was NOT ENOUGH? CBS had to offer him 1.8 MILLION DOLLARS PER EPISODE to get him to stay on.

Think that's bad, Oprah earns even more. She rakes in over 2 million dollars per episode. For a ******* talk show. Hey ABC: I'll happily talk to celebrities for an hour and give away cars for a sparse 1% of that. Give me a call.

You know who I feel bad for? I feel bad for the bit part actors, the roadies, all the people behind the scenes who earn tiny paychecks while the "leading man" (or woman) walks away with millions of dollars and it's STILL not enough for them.

Do you remember the MLB strike? People who throw (and swing at) small round projectiles were whining because anywhere from a couple hundred thousand for a benchside seat to the game to several million just to hit the **** thing was NOT ENOUGH for these greedy ***** either. You know what happens when they go on strike? All the concession stand vendors, the people who make their living selling hot dogs and souvenir hats -can't- work. People who are earning $15,000-25,000 a year are out of work until a bunch of spoiled millionaires get a raise. Ain't that a *****?

Now I'm not saying you shouldn't support your game developers/actors/recording artists of choice. If you like a movie, or if you like a band, or if you like a game, PAY for it. You paying for it tells them you like it. Telling them you like it tells them to make more of it, and since you like it, you want more of it, right?

However, I, for one, am sick of people who make so much money that their GRANDKIDS will never have to work a day in their lives, and they have the NERVE to whine and ***** about people who earn 50, 40, even 30k or less a year who "steal our work".

Take your multi million dollar mansions and your 10 car garages and shove em up your ***.
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#27 Jul 18 2010 at 5:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well said Mikhalia.

I work for a small independent game developer and we see the same **** happen time and time again with our contracts.

A big name publisher (not naming names) told us at E3 that they only pay for games at Gold Master (completed) - So as developers we have to bank roll a couple of million dollars worth of risk just to take it to these douchebags and have them say "Naw, we're not keen"... we would be dead at that point.

Developers want to share in success, not get screwed out of it, but publishers don't much care about that side of things. If you want an extra $1 of the profits then they kick up a huge stink.

Support the dudes that are actually writing the music, creating the video-games etc, not the pigs that are more than happy to put people out of work, on the streets just to make an extra buck.
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#28 Jul 18 2010 at 6:08 AM Rating: Good
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Totally agree here, Mikhalia. Slap that on a new thread and have someone sticky it. o.o Your post deserves more attention than this entire thread.
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