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A good FFXIV info dump:Follow

#1 Jul 17 2010 at 10:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can't take credit for this, OR vouch for it's accuracy, but this thread at MMORPG.com has A LOT of FFXIV info, in a nice, easy, organized post.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/283497/Final-Fantasy-XIV-Everything-You-Need-to-Know.html
#2 Jul 17 2010 at 11:09 PM Rating: Decent
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A great compilation of information, I'll vouch for it.
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#3 Jul 17 2010 at 11:10 PM Rating: Good
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First comment on that site is "can't jump? wtf that's just lame".

Why is that always a criticism of FFXI and FFXIV? Granted, there were some design flaws in FFXI like the stairs in Ordelle's for which jump may have been useful, but there's no gameplay mechanic that requires jumping. The zones are designed with not jumping in mind. If there is an area where it seems you could circumvent a lengthy travel by jumping, they'd design it high enough not to jump up/over it. Jumping in an MMO is just a novelty.
/rant

Otherwise, it seems like a very nice find. Only skimmed through, but it seems like it is only what is publicly available. -- so no worries about NDA issues Nice comprehensive list.
#4 Jul 17 2010 at 11:24 PM Rating: Decent
Sephrick wrote:
-- so no worries about NDA issues Nice comprehensive list.



Er, I don't think I'd go as far as to say that. Lots of neat info, but definitely contains beta exclusive stuff.
#5 Jul 17 2010 at 11:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Sephrick wrote:
-- so no worries about NDA issues Nice comprehensive list.



Er, I don't think I'd go as far as to say that. Lots of neat info, but definitely contains beta exclusive stuff.


I only saw one thing that was beta exclusive but he didn't even say thing about it really. Basically just alluded to the fact that crafting isn't as boring as it was in FFXI...which is something a lot of people have already speculated after watching a video SE released about crafting. Some other things might have been construed as beta exclusive simply because they haven't been talked about in a while.
#6 Jul 18 2010 at 12:47 AM Rating: Decent
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All classes belong to one of the 4 disciples: War, Magic, Hand and Land. Using a skill from different disciple makes it weaker (for example, Cure spell can only be cast on one person instead of being AoE and it's range is more limited. In addition to this, depending on your current weapon's stats (melee stats instead of magical), the power of the spell may be weaker as well. Skills from the same disciple retain most of their strength.


This seems to me to be an arbitrary and very disappointing restriction : (
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#7 Jul 18 2010 at 1:23 AM Rating: Good
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As to jumping, I've only seen jumping used for two things in an MMO: a) being a ******, and b) INCREDIBLY lame platforming. As I don't like retards or things that are lame, I am happy that there will be no jumping.

Edited, Jul 18th 2010 3:39am by Solimurr
#8 Jul 18 2010 at 1:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
All classes belong to one of the 4 disciples: War, Magic, Hand and Land. Using a skill from different disciple makes it weaker (for example, Cure spell can only be cast on one person instead of being AoE and it's range is more limited. In addition to this, depending on your current weapon's stats (melee stats instead of magical), the power of the spell may be weaker as well. Skills from the same disciple retain most of their strength.



This seems very exciting to me in fact because that requires jobs specific weapons to measure strength of Cure. So in effect, Jobs are now much more important in the party scenario to determine whom is better "equiped" for healing measures. A Puligist might be more verifiable as a tank than a Marauder or Gladiator now that weapons specific healing attributes are brought to knowledge. It seems maybe that a Conjurer and Lancer combo could dual party better (in terms of EXP) than a full 6/12/18 party with a single Conjurer or Conjurer/Thaumaturge combo.
#9 Jul 18 2010 at 2:46 AM Rating: Default
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I hope there isn't an emphasis on one particular class or archetype in FFXIV. Pt's in FFXI were always more interesting when it didn't have typical 5 WAR + 1 BRD.

I'm sure end-game will tell. Remember earlier levels of FFXI pretty much any party setup would work as long as you had cure and voke.
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#10 Jul 18 2010 at 3:59 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
This seems to me to be an arbitrary and very disappointing restriction : (


Good luck trying to balance a system like that with no restrictions :D

Also, glad ya'll like it. I don't think there's too much beta related stuff in there, not enough to matter at least ;).
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#11 Jul 18 2010 at 4:08 AM Rating: Good
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Sephrick wrote:
First comment on that site is "can't jump? wtf that's just lame".

Why is that always a criticism of FFXI and FFXIV? Granted, there were some design flaws in FFXI like the stairs in Ordelle's for which jump may have been useful, but there's no gameplay mechanic that requires jumping. The zones are designed with not jumping in mind. If there is an area where it seems you could circumvent a lengthy travel by jumping, they'd design it high enough not to jump up/over it. Jumping in an MMO is just a novelty.
/rant

Otherwise, it seems like a very nice find. Only skimmed through, but it seems like it is only what is publicly available. -- so no worries about NDA issues Nice comprehensive list.


Dragon Age has great reviews, and Dragon Age 2 is being planned, with the first one having an expansion and DLC. A lot of people really enjoy the game.

Oh, did I mention you can't jump in it either?

I can live with the concept of having my feet cemented to the ground, with the exceptions of places like the ones you mentioned where the terrain has "invisible barriers" like Ordelle's stairs or "that rock" in Qufim.
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#12 Jul 18 2010 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
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Eske wrote:
Quote:
All classes belong to one of the 4 disciples: War, Magic, Hand and Land. Using a skill from different disciple makes it weaker (for example, Cure spell can only be cast on one person instead of being AoE and it's range is more limited. In addition to this, depending on your current weapon's stats (melee stats instead of magical), the power of the spell may be weaker as well. Skills from the same disciple retain most of their strength.


This seems to me to be an arbitrary and very disappointing restriction : (


I don't think so. I think if it was possible to say, create a tanking class and heal yourself through an instance (effectively allowing for a group of DD with one tank and no healer necessary), the game would be a little on the easy side. Limiting abilities from other classes is a logical thing to do for my money, as it forces you to really assess what's useful to you, and effectively increases the difficulty, as well as keep each basic class in the 'holy trinity' relevant, while allowing you to blur them to your satisfaction.

Edit - Also the jumping issue-I've played lots of MMO's, and when I left Aion last year, I was convinced that I'd never play another MMO without having the urge to glide (basically, jump then press spacebar again, and you can glide downhill or across flat surfaces). The next MMO I played, I got over that very fast. Jumping is only really useful to me if I'm feeling impatient and want to take shortcuts over a map (which is what made gliding so useful), and I presume that the terrain in FFXIV is going to be easily traversable in a way that would negate the need to take shortcuts anyway.

So really, the only people who it's going to bother are those who are alightly ADD and need to run around jumping when they are between quests/waiting for an instance/other.

That, and I'm sure that freeing the spacebar (being the biggest one on your keyboard) will be pretty useful for keybinding.

Edited, Jul 18th 2010 11:57am by Tealtraum

Edited, Jul 18th 2010 11:59am by Tealtraum
#13 Jul 18 2010 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Everyone plays on the same servers. NA, JP, EU, PS3, PC.

Does this mean everyone shares servers based on their region and system of choice? Or does it mean that every server is available to every region / system of choice and we can therefore play FFXIV on our PC with people playing the PS3 version in the same server (e.g. I buy the PC version while my friends buy the ps3 version -- if we choose the same server, we can play together even on seperate systems?)? I'm guessing (and hoping for) the latter, but I just want to be sure.
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#14 Jul 18 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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Anyone and everyone can play on the same server.
#15 Jul 18 2010 at 11:11 AM Rating: Default
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In the thread linked Hyanmen wrote:

Quote:
4. Crafting & Gathering
- This feature is still under NDA pretty much so I can not say much about it at this time. However, I can say that the system is much more interactive than usually and not simply a mere side-activity alongside combat. I will edit more info in as the NDA is being lifted.
- To make Crafters more important, there is a weapon degrading system. You can, in an emergency, use an NPC to fix your equipment for you, but a PC crafter will always guarantee the best results. The system may be used to count as a death penalty.
- Currently there are 5 crafting classes: Culinarist, Alchemist, Tanner, Weaver and Blacksmith. There are also 3 gathering classes: Miner, Botanist and Fisher.


I see no information about fisher elsewhere, can anyone link to whats currently known?
I also can't find a pet class. As I spent much time as BST and fishing in FFXI I am not sure what I will like to do here.

OK its a different game but its also effectively FFXI version 2 so I would expect some similarities.
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#16 Jul 18 2010 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
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oleum wrote:
In the thread linked Hyanmen wrote:

Quote:
4. Crafting & Gathering
- This feature is still under NDA pretty much so I can not say much about it at this time. However, I can say that the system is much more interactive than usually and not simply a mere side-activity alongside combat. I will edit more info in as the NDA is being lifted.
- To make Crafters more important, there is a weapon degrading system. You can, in an emergency, use an NPC to fix your equipment for you, but a PC crafter will always guarantee the best results. The system may be used to count as a death penalty.
- Currently there are 5 crafting classes: Culinarist, Alchemist, Tanner, Weaver and Blacksmith. There are also 3 gathering classes: Miner, Botanist and Fisher.


I see no information about fisher elsewhere, can anyone link to whats currently known?
I also can't find a pet class. As I spent much time as BST and fishing in FFXI I am not sure what I will like to do here.

OK its a different game but its also effectively FFXI version 2 so I would expect some similarities.


Quote from Tanaka on summons/pet class:

Quote:
There were many Summons in FFXI, but for an online world, I never felt there were enough. What Summons can we expect to see in FFXIV and will there be more variety than in FFXI?

We can't really mention which summons will be in. But what we can say is that some is going to be really important in the storyline. It's not going to be included in the game like FFXI. At the moment we don't really have a class, a pet class / summoner. Not at the moment at least. So it will be implemented in the game in a different way. Please check back with us in the future.


Source.

Not sure about fishing, haven't seen much information anywhere on that.
#17 Jul 18 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah I took a head-start and added it there. It's not currently implemented in Beta, but they've revealed enough info for me to be pretty certain that it'll be available when the game goes live.

Sorry for the confusion :D.
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#18 Jul 18 2010 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Good luck trying to balance a system like that with no restrictions :D


Tealtraum wrote:
I don't think so. I think if it was possible to say, create a tanking class and heal yourself through an instance (effectively allowing for a group of DD with one tank and no healer necessary), the game would be a little on the easy side. Limiting abilities from other classes is a logical thing to do for my money, as it forces you to really assess what's useful to you, and effectively increases the difficulty, as well as keep each basic class in the 'holy trinity' relevant, while allowing you to blur them to your satisfaction.


I'm sorry, but I emphatically disagree.

Fear of balancing issues, or of particular jobs losing relevance, is a quick way to make the same-ol' battle system. Why is it important to keep some semblance of the "holy trinity" in FFXIV? Why should it be requisite to have a conjurer or a thaumaturge in every single battle?

As the game stands now, there are already enough distinguishing factors that should theoretically allow mages to retain relevance. Having a larger variety of spells, having a single specific battle position, being able to equip +magic equipment, and spec'ing themselves solely for magic use would already give mages a distinct advantage over DoW classes that have simply ported over some abilities. From what I have heard, the equipment issues alone were already making it almost impossible to use such cross-discipline abilities. Now these moves by SE seem intent to drive the final nail in the coffin.

Lopping on even more restrictions, as far as I can tell, makes porting abilities between DoW and DoM almost entirely worthless. As I see it, wasting AP on cross-discipline skills for group play is a surefire way to get yourself booted. I wanted to see parity. I wanted to see groups composed of unorthodox hybrids. I didn't want it to be so that your group needed to contain a clear-cut tank, healer, and DD. I didn't want FFXIV to fall into a system where the only time that you can put "Cure" on your Lancer is in the privacy of your own Mog House.

It's not a deal-breaker for me, but I'm certainly going to be disappointed if a great opportunity to break out of traditional MMORPG molds has just been smothered in its crib.




Edited, Jul 18th 2010 1:33pm by Eske

Edited, Jul 18th 2010 1:34pm by Eske
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#19 Jul 18 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nothing in there suggests that that would be the case.

In fact, that Cure example is misleading, because Conjurer's way of being "unique" is that most of it's spells become AoE. Even those taken from Thaumaturge. And likewise Thaumaturge's spells are conal.

Use the Cure spell on Gladiator, and you lose the AoE effect, which makes sense. The only real limitation after that is that the range is shorter, and of course if you have equipment on that doesn't boost the spell it will be weaker. Oh boy.

Without limitations it's too hard to balance all the classes. That's the only reason there are limitations, but a **** good one at that. It doesn't mean there can't be different archetypes. Who is saying that some DoW class has no "cure" like ability? Who is saying that you can't set tanking, healing buffing and DDing abilities/spells at the same time? No one.

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#20 Jul 18 2010 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Nothing in there suggests that that would be the case.

In fact, that Cure example is misleading, because Conjurer's way of being "unique" is that most of it's spells become AoE. Even those taken from Thaumaturge. And likewise Thaumaturge's spells are conal.

Use the Cure spell on Gladiator, and you lose the AoE effect, which makes sense. The only real limitation after that is that the range is shorter, and of course if you have equipment on that doesn't boost the spell it will be weaker. Oh boy.

Without limitations it's too hard to balance all the classes. That's the only reason there are limitations, but a **** good one at that. It doesn't mean there can't be different archetypes. Who is saying that some DoW class has no "cure" like ability? Who is saying that you can't set tanking, healing buffing and DDing abilities/spells at the same time? No one.


From what I have heard (and I'm trying to toe the NDA line here), extant factors are already making DoM spells worthless on DoW, and vice versa. Originally, I had presumed that this was an unintended outcome, but SE's decision to make additional restrictions on their usage indicates to me that they do not want us using cross-discipline abilities.

If they're going to make that call, then I doubt they'll fix the other glaring issue that's currently preventing cross-discipline abilities from being viable.

As I said before, there are extant factors which distinguish DoM and DoW, and make them better at their particular field. A healing Marauder would never be as good as a Conjurer. I'd prefer to see SE tweak the balancing from that position.

So now yes, you can certainly "set tanking, healing, buffing, and DD'ing abilities/spells at the same time." Just like how in FFXI, you could sub ninja on your red mage, dual-wield, use en-spells, and DD. But you sure wouldn't be much use in a group.

We're always stuck with the holy trinity because developers are afraid to break the mold on any real level. To let them off the hook by surmising that "it's too hard to balance", relegates us to mediocrity, I say.

That's just my humble opinion. I hope I'm not coming off as cross.

Edited, Jul 18th 2010 2:29pm by Eske

Edited, Jul 18th 2010 2:31pm by Eske
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#21 Jul 18 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Decent
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"Eske" wrote:
From what I have heard (and I'm trying to toe the NDA line here), extant factors are already making DoM spells worthless on DoW, and vice versa.


sorry to jump in here but I'd like to say that from "what I've heard" provoke affords the tank hate from the mob for about 2 seconds before a swing from a thaumaturge takes agro - also, from what I've heard the face buttons on your keyboard cannot be used to target party members, so a conjurer needs to target party members individually when curing, so imagine how fun this'll be when you have a party of 15 people! my point is, and I hate to play the same tune over and over again but, this is only beta and what you're talking about are very small tweaks that can change the game drastically. I mean we don't expect the experience system to be broken come launch do we? well its not doing too well atm...I say we wait this out and see how the battle system actually works before we make assumptions as to how these restrictions will plummet the game down to ****. I personally think some restrictions should be in place but I also view the limited ability slots as a restriction that will help define a character as well (I think we can only fit 30 abilities as it stands today? you would still need to choose wisely).

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#22 Jul 18 2010 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
From what I have heard (and I'm trying to toe the NDA line here), extant factors are already making DoM spells worthless on DoW, and vice versa. Originally, I had presumed that this was an unintended outcome, but SE's decision to make additional restrictions on their usage indicates to me that they do not want us using cross-discipline abilities.


I don't think they don't "want" us to do something in particular.

But it's a ***** to balance without restrictions. They can't just ignore that, but they're certainly trying to give people as much freedom as possible.

Complete freedom is just not going to happen.

Anyway, whatever happens in the Beta is not something one should take for granted. Some classes are totally OP, some nerfed to ****, some more or less balanced.. it all indicates that what we're playing now is only a template for the future. So many things are going to change still.
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#23 Jul 18 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Complete freedom is just not going to happen.


Well see, I'm not advocating "complete freedom." As I mentioned before, there are already factors that make say, DoM's better with magic than a DoW porting the abilities. I really don't think that they're "trying to give people as much freedom as possible", personally. Frankly, I think this move flies in the face of that. I firmly believe that it could have worked the other way.

Obviously, neither of us know what SE has tried to implement, or the particulars of how they envisioned such freedoms to work. Personally, I'm leaning towards this move being made out of dogged (or perhaps unconscious) adherence to the old clichés, not because it's the "only way to balance things."

Hyanmen wrote:
Anyway, whatever happens in the Beta is not something one should take for granted. Some classes are totally OP, some nerfed to ****, some more or less balanced.. it all indicates that what we're playing now is only a template for the future. So many things are going to change still.


I got burned once hoping that things would change from the Beta with the surname business. I won't be reserving any hope that this will be significantly changed by release. It's just too big an issue; one which they seem to have their mind already set on as far as I can tell.



Edited, Jul 18th 2010 3:25pm by Eske
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#24 Jul 18 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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One of the big reasons its so hard for developers to break the holy trinity is because players will take a loose system like this, and develop and share the best, optimized roles to accomplish their goal. then everyone will feel the need to do it the same way to stay competitive. we do it to ourselves. But why do we do it? because Tank-Damage-Healer is just like a triangle, it is the most fundamentally strong shape for combat.

goal: kill monster
means: do damage to monster (hence DD)
obstacle: Monster damages me
solution: Negate monster damage to me by removing it (healer)
Or making it never hit me (tank)

What core, basic roles are there to preform in combat besides deal damage and negating damage? If combat, at it's core, was about more than damage, then room for more roles would open up.

If bonus XP was awarded based on tactical strikes like afflicting status ailments or hitting from behind then classes that specialize is those types of things (without doing damage) would have a fair chance of becoming the standard. perhaps a monster only drops the juicy stuff if finessed by a class with the know how? that would make them a valuable add on.
#25 Jul 18 2010 at 7:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok. Maybe I'm just thinking about it too much, but I think I'm confusing myself about how the level progression is working. In FFXI, you battled and gained exp toward your job and then gained skill ups in crafts/weapon skills. From what I'm understanding, in 14, you gain exp toward your physical level and then you get skill ups after the battle for your class/craft. As you increase in skill for your class/craft you'll unlock additional weapon abilities/recipes. Is that correct or am I off base?

Also, if this is part of the NDA, I appologize for asking, but I was curious. Is there durability on armor along with weapons? I was just curious if someone has skill in tanning, could they only repair worn armor that is related to tanning or are they going to be able to repair any armor period? It would make sense that it would be limited to their skill type. I'd also assume that one might get a skill up toward their craft assuming the item being repaired is high enough in level requirements?
#26 Jul 18 2010 at 8:00 PM Rating: Decent
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From what I've heard the blacksmiths will have the ability to repair player weapons and will do a much better job than the NPCs in town. No idea if they also repair the armor, and if that's all armor or just heavy armor, thus leaving it to the tanners to repair the medium armor and weavers to repair the light...

Since I've heard that much weapon degradation seems pretty assured, but no idea if it will be constant or just a death penalty.
#27 Jul 18 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Decent
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My only question, after talking to my friends who are in the beta is: How the **** is this thing going to be released in two months? Either they are hiding a much further along build from the testers or they are nowhere near ready for release.
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#28 Jul 18 2010 at 9:21 PM Rating: Decent
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My only question, after talking to my friends who are in the beta is: How the **** is this thing going to be released in two months? Either they are hiding a much further along build from the testers or they are nowhere near ready for release.


That's what they have done since the start of the testing.
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#29 Jul 19 2010 at 8:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah I was under the impression that a lot of content like skills, classes, maps, monsters, quests, and items were not "in" the beta. They only put in enough assets to test the framework. Adding content is easy, class/skill balance and item balance will be addressed either *just* before release in an open beta or via patches during the first few months. Heck WoW still patches class balance All the time.
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