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Interesting interview with TanakaFollow

#1 Jul 19 2010 at 11:08 PM Rating: Decent
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An interesting interview posted on FFXIVCore. Didn't see it posted he but I might blind. Sorry if it was.
Quote:
"I worked on Final Fantasy XI for 8 years. I was able to collect a lot of feedback and testimonials of MMORPG players. But I also heard many moving stories from the players. A lot of things happened between them. So I had a great pleasure in working on a new MMORPG and I will be able to hear many new stories written through the game.


We do not try to compete with World of Warcraft. We really want to convince the fans of Final Fantasy who have never played an MMORPG. But also show to casual gamers that MMORPGs are very exciting to play. We really hope that Final Fantasy XIV will be a good first experience for those new players.


With this title we want to bring new players to the MMORPG experience, so we spent a lot of time to manage the play time. We know that MMORPGs can consume a lot of time for players. We have therefore created the "Guild Leaves" and an armory which will allow players to use their playing time effectively. This is one of the main novelties of this Final Fantasy XIV.


We really wanted to make quests less repetitive as possible for players. In Final Fantasy XI, when you were done with a quest, it was not meant to be repeated. Instead in Final Fantasy XIV we really want the players to repeat them as many times as they want. Attempts are being made to make these quests as pleasant as possible so that players do not feel bored.


The development of Final Fantasy XIV occupies all my time, so I do not have time to play other games. I am therefore sorry to say that the last game that pleased me as a player is Final Fantasy XI.


We have not yet anything in mind to the Playstation Plus members. You'll have the traditional achievments for all players, but nothing special for Playstation Plus members. "
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#2 Jul 19 2010 at 11:51 PM Rating: Good
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I think they have a healthy philosophy. Great games do not come about through marketing decisions, they come about through a commitment to an idea of what is fun to play and easy to enjoy. I'm very encouraged by every thing that I have heard from Tanaka lately, because it seems like he/they have the correct mentality for making a pleasing game, whether it is the game that has the most subscribers or not. That means a better chance of LOYAL players who will stick with the game for the long haul and not go flitting after the very next main stream "WoW clone" that comes along.

It's much better to aim to be the very best Final Fantasy of all time than to be a second rate WoW clone. FFXIV has to the potential to be around much longer than high budget, low imagination efforts like Warhammer and Age of Conan.

Edited, Jul 20th 2010 1:53am by KarlHungis
#3 Jul 20 2010 at 1:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think it's NDA breaking to say that FFXIV is nowhere near a WoW clone, so it's very refreshing considering that almost every Western MMO released in the last few years has been.

Unlike some haters that say FFXI (or any non-WoW MMO for that matter) doesn't make money or is on the verge of collapse... it actually only takes a very small player-base to be profitable. I'm talking about less than 10,000 active subs.

Regardless of SE's claim to want to draw in new gamers, I think the fact that they're targeting more of a niche audience is a far better strategy than targeting WoW players.
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#4 Jul 20 2010 at 1:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:

Regardless of SE's claim to want to draw in new gamers, I think the fact that they're targeting more of a niche audience is a far better strategy than targeting WoW players.


There are a ton of us who have been waiting for a game like this for a long time, SE being the only one to match that demand, gets to have the whole bunch of them with practically no competition.

So yea I agree, may not be the biggest money maker strategy but its a **** of a lot safer and they have more freedom with their game then being forced to follow the usual mold.

edit: and wow players even claim wow is on the verge of collapse often enough, so yea...their cries of doom have never been worth a salt.

Edited, Jul 20th 2010 3:42am by Silverwyrm
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#5 Jul 20 2010 at 2:26 AM Rating: Default
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This new game should give Final Fantasy players a chance to voice/game/play with new MMORPG-style scenarios. This should give gamers and the game devs a bigger chance to successfully promote AND finance new gamer specialized places/things/journeys in to the beyond. Whenever the first update does come around I'll be anticipating some new changes in the MMORPG style of gameplay. That's going to be exciting. Also, all the new material to work around with should give us gamers a steady ground to offe s[,e advice. I'm hoping the first version update will come sometime around October/mid-November. Thanks again SE for the "too early, but better than never" planning in the production department.



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#6 Jul 20 2010 at 2:29 AM Rating: Default
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Is it me or does he sound a little depressed? My empathy senses are tingling.
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#7 Jul 20 2010 at 2:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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GuardianFaith wrote:
Is it me or does he sound a little depressed? My empathy senses are tingling.


:P He's probably more exhausted than anything. He's got a game releasing in two months, and several hundred thousand more people wating for the PS3 edition... then there's all the bug-fixes, content patches, game balancing, and work on an expansion to think about. I bet he feels like a new parent!

I don't feel a bit bad for him though. He's accomplished enough success I imagine he could have retired or taken less demanding projects if he wished. I'd wager he's precisely where he wants to be.

And yes, I'm a wee bit jealous. :P
#8 Jul 20 2010 at 3:20 AM Rating: Decent
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GuardianFaith wrote:
Is it me or does he sound a little depressed? My empathy senses are tingling.



I don't think he sounds depressed; if anything he sounds tired and sincere.

He states he's been working hard and uses the word 'really' a lot. And from that I gather he hopes that FFXIV does well, as he should given his effort.


And like him I really hope that this game does well, and hope they can strike a balance of time and 'effort' for the casual player.

#9 Jul 20 2010 at 3:35 AM Rating: Default
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I think Tanaka needs a vacation really bad. He clearly doesn't understand that FFXIV will be drawing away mostly WoW players. Everything in this industry is a niche. You like FPS, you play Call of Duty or Halo. However if you play RPG's, good money says you will enjoy FFXI, WoW, LotR, Aion, etc. I don't care how mainstream FFVII helped to lift the niche from the non-Asian market rpg demographic. RPG's continue to be a niche market. When schools and businesses shut down when a Dragon Quest in the West is released I'll take back my statement. Now my point to all of this is simple. There isn't a large enough player base for another MMORPG to be successful without dethroning another.

MMORPG's won't be attracting those Wii casual players anytime soon like Tanaka implies. On top of everything else, FFXIV and FFXI can't both exist and still be a success. One must die so the other may live. The pie just isn't large enough to split. So any hopes of FFXIV becoming successful reply on how many players SE can persuade to leave their current MMO. Causal players with no affiliation now aren't suddenly going to fall out of the sky in record numbers and play FFXIV or any other game for that matter.

I really appreciate the overall direction SE is taking with FFXIV. However, if they hope to be a success they need to start to think like a winner. Judging from Tanaka's response, SE doesn't care to win the crown, they just want to join the party. While there's nothing wrong with the notion of causal mmo gamers, it's simply not realistic. If I were to bet on who would be playing FFXIV at launch. I'd say 75% of them are former WoW players at least. The rest of the majority are FFXI users obviously.
#10 Jul 20 2010 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The development of Final Fantasy XIV occupies all my time, so I do not have time to play other games. I am therefore sorry to say that the last game that pleased me as a player is Final Fantasy XI.
This statement I like because it shows he enjoys playing the games he creates so he has a more sincere approach to FFXIV instead of it being just another game.
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#11 Jul 20 2010 at 12:02 PM Rating: Default
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Aleandra wrote:
Regardless of SE's claim to want to draw in new gamers, I think the fact that they're targeting more of a niche audience is a far better strategy than targeting WoW players.


Exactly IMO why EVE is still around and growing. Yes it's not your typical MMO, but if you reskinned it I think it would still be heads above the rest of the offerings that aren't WoW or XI.
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#12 Jul 20 2010 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:


I really appreciate the overall direction SE is taking with FFXIV. However, if they hope to be a success they need to start to think like a winner. Judging from Tanaka's response, SE doesn't care to win the crown, they just want to join the party. While there's nothing wrong with the notion of causal mmo gamers, it's simply not realistic. If I were to bet on who would be playing FFXIV at launch. I'd say 75% of them are former WoW players at least. The rest of the majority are FFXI users obviously.


First of all, there's an overlap between former FFXI players and WoW players. I played FFXI on and off for 3 years total, and played WoW since launch until a month ago, with maybe a total of six months worth of breaks in the interim. So I am both a WoW and a FFXI player. Yet, it is not my experience with WoW that makes me eager to experience FFXIV, it is my experience with FFXI. I think that the game will have a much stronger draw for FFXI players than for WoW players because there is already a relationship established between FFXI players and S-E devs. When you say 75% of FFXIV players will be former WoW players, even we accept that at face value, it doesn't mean that 100% won't be former FFXI players.

Second, assuming you really mean "75% will be former WoW players who didn't like FFXI or never played it" I find that number to be dubious, but if it were true, then FFXIV's user base would be a million users or more, which I don't think any one object to necessarily.

Third, and most important, it doesn't matter who is playing the game initially. It matters who is playing the game a year after release. History has shown that there are a large segment of other MMO players (possibly all WoW players) who are willing to try other big name games, but that demographic has not shown any willingness so far to STICK with other games. Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, etc all had massive sales initially, and then after the first month or two, people returned to playing WoW. Obviously, those games lacked some element to keep those players hooked. It stands to reason that it's better to find a "niche" group that is going to stick with you for a long time than to temporarily grab a slice of the WoW crowd and then lose them because your game isn't really WoW.

In a perfect world of course, every one who plays FFXIV would find every thing they're looking for, and it would be the next massive thing, like WoW. But is that realistic? Can any one really afford to "out-WoW" WoW? I don't think so, personally. Trying to be all thins to all people in order to compete with WoW is like a non Asian power getting into a land war in Asia. Trying to beat some one at their own game when they're already well established and have you beat in every relevant resource is ambitious, but ultimately stupid.

The successful MMO makers are going to be the ones who realize that they can't be all things to all people, and instead decide to be the very best at one or only a few things. Blizzard can easily compete with any game that tries to do it all, but they can't necessarily compete with the specialized game, because the specialized game isn't held back by trying to do it all. Think of how much more flexibility S-E has to make cool PvE classes because those classes don't have to be balanced in PvP. Think of the loyal fanbase of console users. Can WoW compete for them? Not really. Can WoW compete in any way with EVE? **** no, they can't. The EVE experience is totally unique and not something you can accomplish when you're trying to be all things to all people. Sure, WoW makes more money, but EVE makes money too, and it doesn't have to try to match WoW feature for feature and content for content.


Edited, Jul 20th 2010 2:27pm by KarlHungis
#13 Jul 20 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Aleandra wrote:
Regardless of SE's claim to want to draw in new gamers, I think the fact that they're targeting more of a niche audience is a far better strategy than targeting WoW players.
Personally I think that a lot of what I'm seeing in FFXIV is meant to address the learning curve in FFXI. I tried picking up FFXI about a year ago and it just didn't work for me. Having a newbie tutorial and a more standard (or at least flexible) control scheme will go a long way to introducing new players into the game without needing a friend to hold your hand or forcing the newbie to scour the web attempting to figure out how to play...

There are quite a few people who want a change from the WoW-like games out there, and FFXIV looks like it might be a nice change of pace. Will FFXIV be a WoW-killer? I doubt it, but I'm hopeful that it will gather a reasonable subscription base to allow it to thrive. While an MMO might be able to survive on 10k population that's not enough of a subscription base to actually allow it to thrive and grow. Personally I'm expecting at least 300k subscribers and hoping for over 500k subscribers, but only time will tell :)
#14 Jul 20 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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KarlHungis wrote:

First of all, there's an overlap between former FFXI players and WoW players. I played FFXI on and off for 3 years total, and played WoW since launch until a month ago, with maybe a total of six months worth of breaks in the interim. So I am both a WoW and a FFXI player. Yet, it is not my experience with WoW that makes me eager to experience FFXIV, it is my experience with FFXI. I think that the game will have a much stronger draw for FFXI players than for WoW players because there is already a relationship established between FFXI players and S-E devs. When you say 75% of FFXIV players will be former WoW players, even we accept that at face value, it doesn't mean that 100% won't be former FFXI players.


If you played WoW or FFXI for any given period of time, your post only serves to make my point for me. I know several friends who left FFXI for WoW a few years ago. Most of these people are interested in playing FFXIV. The bottom line is the targeted audience will be former FFXI and WoW players. It doesn't matter which MMO you're playing right this moment.

Quote:

Third, and most important, it doesn't matter who is playing the game initially. It matters who is playing the game a year after release. History has shown that there are a large segment of other MMO players (possibly all WoW players) who are willing to try other big name games, but that demographic has not shown any willingness so far to STICK with other games. Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, etc all had massive sales initially, and then after the first month or two, people returned to playing WoW. Obviously, those games lacked some element to keep those players hooked. It stands to reason that it's better to find a "niche" group that is going to stick with you for a long time than to temporarily grab a slice of the WoW crowd and then lose them because your game isn't really WoW.


I agree, you cannot look at the launch numbers and be like "Bam, there you go". That still being the case, you seem to leave out the fact that all MMO's cater to a certain niche. If you think the market will expand to retain all of WoW's current players(inactive/active) plus all the other MMO's like LotR, Aion, FFXI, and all the rest you're insane. MMORPG's won't be the next Wii. Causal players won't suddenly appear from nowhere and start playing FFXIV. At least not enough of them to make a sizable difference as Tanaka implies.

Pay attention to how trends work too. Hollywood is making everything 3D now. PS3 and Xbox are copying motion controls from the Wii. MMO's are coping WoW's "causal" approach with their own spin. Like it or not, FFXI used to be a hardcore game. Now it's a watered-down version because of games like WoW. All these recent "adjustments" seem like nothing more than casual Beta testing for FFXIV. Abyssea itself is nothing short of a FFXIV preview. FoV=Guildeves and so forth.

Quote:

In a perfect world of course, every one who plays FFXIV would find every thing they're looking for, and it would be the next massive thing, like WoW. But is that realistic? Can any one really afford to "out-WoW" WoW? I don't think so, personally. Trying to be all thins to all people in order to compete with WoW is like a non Asian power getting into a land war in Asia. Trying to beat some one at their own game when they're already well established and have you beat in every relevant resource is ambitious, but ultimately stupid.


You're probably right, but the time will come when even Blizzard must replace the original with a new title. I think the main problem is SE only targets JP, NA, and EU regions. If SE learned how to advertise and listen to customer feedback(like that WoW real names thing on message forums), I could see a serious contender. As it is now, we'll get some Aion players, some LoTR, a ton of WoW or ex-WoW players, and the majority of FFXI users.

The reason why it's important to do well beyond having only a small user group is because of service. The more people that play FFXIV, the better the updates and support. FFXI was stalled for years because it wasn't feasible to waste millions to "fix" it. Instead SE agreed that they would make FFXIV from scratch and just emulate the char models so we feel attached in some way.

Quote:

The successful MMO makers are going to be the ones who realize that they can't be all things to all people, and instead decide to be the very best at one or only a few things. Blizzard can easily compete with any game that tries to do it all, but they can't necessarily compete with the specialized game, because the specialized game isn't held back by trying to do it all. Think of how much more flexibility S-E has to make cool PvE classes because those classes don't have to be balanced in PvP. Think of the loyal fanbase of console users. Can WoW compete for them? Not really. Can WoW compete in any way with EVE? **** no, they can't. The EVE experience is totally unique and not something you can accomplish when you're trying to be all things to all people. Sure, WoW makes more money, but EVE makes money too, and it doesn't have to try to match WoW feature for feature and content for content.


I see what you're saying here and I agree with most of it. The problem I have is that FFXIV will only attract a niche market of players if it doesn't seek to overthrow WoW on the basic levels. Obviously I'm referring to "casual" play. FFXIV will be dumbed down because of WoW and games like it. The entire series of FF has been on a decline(challenge wise) anyways since FF7. Tanaka himself confirms this by implying his desire for new players not familiar with the MMO universe. Would you seriously think FFXIV will be considered a success if it can't at the very least defeat Aion worldwide. I know FFXIV is special because it's PvE only and has console users, but that's just not enough. Eve might have its own niche(space), but FFXIV is a fantasy themed game. Your analogy is like comparing WoW to City of heroes or Call of Duty. Fantasy games can only take so much of the pie. If SE can't maintain more than 2mil users in their first year, FFXIV will be considered a flop by the industry experts. I'm hoping for 3-4mil myself, but I'm setting the bar realistic for now.
#15 Jul 20 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Hmm if they want to get new people to play mmorpg then i really hope the put their time in the startingzones and get people around with controls and all that sort of things.

FFXI was a real pain with that you really needed to have some friends ingame to get things started else you didnt get anywhere as a new player.

Also hearing about the questrepeating i wonder if that means we get some sort of daily questsystem, what use is it to repeat a quest if the reward isn't good.
And if they reward it the best way is gil as items really don't make it better i think.
#16 Jul 20 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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cealis wrote:
Hmm if they want to get new people to play mmorpg then i really hope the put their time in the startingzones and get people around with controls and all that sort of things.

FFXI was a real pain with that you really needed to have some friends ingame to get things started else you didnt get anywhere as a new player.

Also hearing about the questrepeating i wonder if that means we get some sort of daily questsystem, what use is it to repeat a quest if the reward isn't good.
And if they reward it the best way is gil as items really don't make it better i think.


No need to worry about this, I'm sure the Brady Guide will have all the answers all us newbs will need.
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#17 Jul 20 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't think difficulty in ff games has gone down at all since FFVII. I barely got KO'd in that game (aside from Emerald/Ruby battles), nor in VIII or IX (and rarely in X unless against those HQ versions of summons). In fact, just playing FFXIII casually now, I get KO'd pretty frequently from not paying full attention to a common battle! So I wouldn't say things have gotten progressively easier.

And why does FFXIV need to dethrone WoW anyway? Realistically, all it needs to achieve is market expansion (there are more gamers in the world than the current 11m subcriptions in WoW). As much as some of us dislike WoW, it has lifted public awareness and the size/scope of gaming. If FFXIV can similarly bring more people to enjoy MMORPGs, it would be a good thing for everyone.
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#18 Jul 20 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm sure the Brady Guide will have all the answers all us newbs will need.


This brought grin to my face... in the "oh brother!" type way.

I'm fully prepared to spend at least 10 levels killing bunnies, rats, bees, and sheep. For some reason it's the stock starting experience for every MMO. Just once I'd like to see an MMO start out with an grand play sequence and a the attendant questline.
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#19 Jul 20 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
And why does FFXIV need to dethrone WoW anyway? Realistically, all it needs to achieve is market expansion (there are more gamers in the world than the current 11m subcriptions in WoW). As much as some of us dislike WoW, it has lifted public awareness and the size/scope of gaming. If FFXIV can similarly bring more people to enjoy MMORPGs, it would be a good thing for everyone.


I enjoyed my time in Warcraft, but the Final Fantasy genre is too strong a pull for me.

A 1 million subscriber MMO would be quite successful. I don't think you have to dig too much into WoW to achieve that. And frankly, I don't feel the need to say to people "my MMO is better than your MMO." There is no objective "better;" it's fully a matter of preference.

One thing that makes me wonder a little bit is that Tanaka hasn't played a game since FFXI. That would be like me, as a lawyer, not having read any new case law since 2002. You can't do your job fully without understanding the scope of "what's out there."
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#20 Jul 20 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
[
Pay attention to how trends work too. Hollywood is making everything 3D now. PS3 and Xbox are copying motion controls from the Wii. MMO's are coping WoW's "causal" approach with their own spin. Like it or not, FFXI used to be a hardcore game. Now it's a watered-down version because of games like WoW. All these recent "adjustments" seem like nothing more than casual Beta testing for FFXIV. Abyssea itself is nothing short of a FFXIV preview. FoV=Guildeves and so forth.


We'll wait and see just how much lasting appeal 3D has, and whether any one actually cares about the Move or Kinnect. It's one thing to point out an industry trend, and another for that trend to turn into increased sales. We already know that the trend to make WoW clones has not (so far) yielded any kind of financial success. I would say the next big litmus test will not be FFXIV, but The Old Republic. Can a WoW clone, in space, by probably the most well regarded studio not named "Blizzard" succeed in eclipsing or even approaching WoW? We'll see. EA is willing to spend a lot of money to give it a try.

Quote:

I see what you're saying here and I agree with most of it. The problem I have is that FFXIV will only attract a niche market of players if it doesn't seek to overthrow WoW on the basic levels.


Yes, but I think you can do just fine as a "niche" title and S-E might be fine with that. They still made truckloads of money on FFXI, even though they never approached WoW levels. Of course I think expectations are different now than they were eight years ago, and FFXIV does have to be more casual friendly and have appeal that goes beyond camping and grinding, but you can see with the Guildleve system that it's something they're trying to address. I don't know that there's anything they can realistically ever do that's going to allow them to tap into a large part of the WoW market, because WoW offers PvE and PvP together, which is really hard and expensive to do, and because WoW has years and years of content in place. I think there are a lot of people who are dissatisfied with WoW though, so the question is whether FFXIV can grab some of those and hold onto them even when Cataclysm launches, and then when The Old Republic comes out.

Quote:

Obviously I'm referring to "casual" play. FFXIV will be dumbed down because of WoW and games like it. The entire series of FF has been on a decline(challenge wise) anyways since FF7. Tanaka himself confirms this by implying his desire for new players not familiar with the MMO universe. Would you seriously think FFXIV will be considered a success if it can't at the very least defeat Aion worldwide.


It's a success if it continues to make money for a long time. Where pundits will rate it, I don't know, but I also don't especially care. Playing the most popular MMO on earth didn't really add anything to the experience of WoW, IMO. As long as FFXIV is healthy enough to sustain itself, and I personally enjoy it, then it's a success to me. As far as Aion goes, that's Korea. It's a market unto itself and I don't even try to compare other games to it. Lineage, Lineage 2, and Aion have all had huge numbers, but not had the long life spans of other MMOs. I'm sure NCsoft has made a killing, but I don't know if any market outside of Korea is that rabid for grindy games that get replaced in a few years.

Quote:

I know FFXIV is special because it's PvE only and has console users, but that's just not enough. Eve might have its own niche(space), but FFXIV is a fantasy themed game. Your analogy is like comparing WoW to City of heroes or Call of Duty. Fantasy games can only take so much of the pie. If SE can't maintain more than 2mil users in their first year, FFXIV will be considered a flop by the industry experts. I'm hoping for 3-4mil myself, but I'm setting the bar realistic for now.


If FFXIV had even a million players after the first year, it would be the second most successful MMO of all time. Even Lineage was only at 1 million after the first year. If S-E got 3-4 million users for FFXI, I don't think they'd even know how to cope with the numbers, and I certainly think that many users would indicate a collapse of the WoW player base.

If FFXIV never gets higher than 1 million players it could still be quite successful and last for quite a long time.

Edited, Jul 20th 2010 4:46pm by KarlHungis
#21 Jul 20 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
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DrymChaser wrote:


No need to worry about this, I'm sure the Brady Guide will have all the answers all us newbs will need.


Every one mocks the Brady guide, but I found it to be extremely helpful. Sure, there was dumb advice like subbing WHM as a WAR or inserting emotes and calls into all of your ability macros, but there was a huge amount of useful quest and class info as well. I'd say any one who was playing FFXI without the Brady guide was at a huge disadvantage for the first few years of FFXI's life span.

For me, a good strategy guide (especially for an MMO) gives me the information I need in order to make intelligent choices and get established. The Brady guide listed all the class abilities and spells, all of the missions up to Jeuno and the Airship pass, the sub job quest, the chocobo quest, unlocking all the advanced jobs, the first few gobbie bags, how to build macros, etc. It had the elemental affinities and counter elements, the "beast wheel", weather, and any number of other useful and non intuitive pieces of information which S-E didn't provide in game.

An MMO strategy guide is never going to be current forever, because MMOs change so much, but I felt that as far as MMO strategy guides go, the Brady guide for FFXI was the best I've ever seen.
#22 Jul 20 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
KarlHungis wrote:
DrymChaser wrote:


No need to worry about this, I'm sure the Brady Guide will have all the answers all us newbs will need.


Every one mocks the Brady guide, but I found it to be extremely helpful. Sure, there was dumb advice like subbing WHM as a WAR or inserting emotes and calls into all of your ability macros, but there was a huge amount of useful quest and class info as well. I'd say any one who was playing FFXI without the Brady guide was at a huge disadvantage for the first few years of FFXI's life span.

For me, a good strategy guide (especially for an MMO) gives me the information I need in order to make intelligent choices and get established. The Brady guide listed all the class abilities and spells, all of the missions up to Jeuno and the Airship pass, the sub job quest, the chocobo quest, unlocking all the advanced jobs, the first few gobbie bags, how to build macros, etc. It had the elemental affinities and counter elements, the "beast wheel", weather, and any number of other useful and non intuitive pieces of information which S-E didn't provide in game.

An MMO strategy guide is never going to be current forever, because MMOs change so much, but I felt that as far as MMO strategy guides go, the Brady guide for FFXI was the best I've ever seen.


Actually I got a lot of use out of it too. Yeah, a lot of their "advice" was idiotic. But that doesn't make the whole thing useless.
#23 Jul 20 2010 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
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KarlHungis wrote:

If FFXIV had even a million players after the first year, it would be the second most successful MMO of all time. Even Lineage was only at 1 million after the first year. If S-E got 3-4 million users for FFXI, I don't think they'd even know how to cope with the numbers, and I certainly think that many users would indicate a collapse of the WoW player base.

If FFXIV never gets higher than 1 million players it could still be quite successful and last for quite a long time.

Edited, Jul 20th 2010 4:46pm by KarlHungis


I think we're on the same page here so let me just say time will tell. I'm very concerned about the status of FFXIV at the moment. The world economy is tanking and out of blue comes FFXIV a game that graphically trumps all other MMO's before it. The catch here though is that you need to spend 1500-2000 on upgrades to even play the game at decent settings or wait for the delayed PS3 launch. Both of these cons really hurt the potential for FFXIV's success in the short term. Next up we have a PvE only game and infamous for the worst customer service known to human kind. To top it all off, S-E doesn't listen to us unless they get slammed by the national press(IE... AV 18hr stint) I'm very concerned for those reasons and I like to think I'm not alone.


Edited, Jul 20th 2010 8:24pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#24 Jul 20 2010 at 7:50 PM Rating: Decent
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One thing that makes me wonder a little bit is that Tanaka hasn't played a game since FFXI. That would be like me, as a lawyer, not having read any new case law since 2002. You can't do your job fully without understanding the scope of "what's out there."


he said one hasn't pleased him since FFXI, not he hasn't played
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#25 Jul 21 2010 at 8:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Quote:
One thing that makes me wonder a little bit is that Tanaka hasn't played a game since FFXI. That would be like me, as a lawyer, not having read any new case law since 2002. You can't do your job fully without understanding the scope of "what's out there."


he said one hasn't pleased him since FFXI, not he hasn't played

"Tanaka" wrote:
The development of Final Fantasy XIV occupies all my time, so I do not have time to play other games.


Also, you do not have to play other games to get a full understanding of it. He has people who can do that or even go with reviews posted by the major gaming sites.

A better comparison would be comparing video game (software) development to hardware development. The facts are finite and there are no pieces of circumstantial evidence that needs to be considered. You have it (capability, feature, etc.) or you don't.
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#26 Jul 21 2010 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Also, you do not have to play other games to get a full understanding of it. He has people who can do that or even go with reviews posted by the major gaming sites.

A better comparison would be comparing video game (software) development to hardware development. The facts are finite and there are no pieces of circumstantial evidence that needs to be considered. You have it (capability, feature, etc.) or you don't.


Respectfully disagree. I think you have to play other games to get a grasp on what's in them. I can't tell you how Mass Effect controls and gameplay really work, in spite of having read reviews and spoken to people who have played it and loved it.

I don't understand why your comparison of software vs. hardware development is better.

My point was merely this: I don't think a game designer (even on a macro, management level) can perform at his best if he is not aware of what else is out there. It's like trying to write an outstanding novel without having ever read Shakespeare. Like trying to play running back without ever having watched video of Barry Sanders. Like trying to write a symphony without ever having listened to Beethoven.

I'd just feel better if I knew that Tanaka had experienced innovations in gaming that have occurred over the last 8 years. There's a big difference between sending someone to research it for you and report on it vs. firsthand experience of gameplay aspects. I think FFXIV would be a better game if he had played KOTOR, FFXIII, Warcraft (OHNOES), Kingdom Hearts, Mass Effect, etc. Not because he could then make clones, but there certainly have been changes since 2002 that, I think, would make FFXIV better if he had experienced them personally.
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#27 Jul 21 2010 at 8:57 AM Rating: Good
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He seems like a genuinely nice person. Having him do interveiws is just as good as advertising. Perhaps that is the strategy.

That said, you can't expect to attract millions of subscribers considering the high system requirements, so it's good that they seem to understand that.

On the same note, you can't create something that is truely awesome by restricting yourself to the more common system specs. They are clearly following their dream of what FFXIV should be, and knowingly limiting their overall bottom line. For me, that bodes well.
#28 Jul 21 2010 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

"Tanaka" wrote:
The development of Final Fantasy XIV occupies all my time, so I do not have time to play other games.


Quote:
Also, you do not have to play other games to get a full understanding of it. He has people who can do that or even go with reviews posted by the major gaming sites.

A better comparison would be comparing video game (software) development to hardware development. The facts are finite and there are no pieces of circumstantial evidence that needs to be considered. You have it (capability, feature, etc.) or you don't.


So he doesn't have time to play other games right now, which is to be expected considering how close to release FFXIV (not to mention in the beta) is he's likely to be hellishly busy.

Absolutely nowhere, did he say he hasn't played a game for years, or hasn't played a game since FFXI and I really doubt that would be the case.
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#29 Jul 21 2010 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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I merely presumed that since FFXIV has been in development for several years, that his time has been exclusively dedicated to it for several years.

And I'm pretty sure that the translation would better phrased as "Sadly, the last game I got to enjoy was FFXI." I'm hardly a translation expert; pretty sure we're losing something in there.
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#30 Jul 21 2010 at 2:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Respectfully disagree. I think you have to play other games to get a grasp on what's in them. I can't tell you how Mass Effect controls and gameplay really work, in spite of having read reviews and spoken to people who have played it and loved it.

I understand what you are saying, however what I am trying to point out is that if you have a development team dedicated to the games controls, they should be the ones primarily concerned with that. Tanaka wouldn't necessarily need to do that himself.

Quote:
My point was merely this: I don't think a game designer (even on a macro, management level) can perform at his best if he is not aware of what else is out there. It's like trying to write an outstanding novel without having ever read Shakespeare. Like trying to play running back without ever having watched video of Barry Sanders. Like trying to write a symphony without ever having listened to Beethoven.

I'd just feel better if I knew that Tanaka had experienced innovations in gaming that have occurred over the last 8 years. There's a big difference between sending someone to research it for you and report on it vs. firsthand experience of gameplay aspects. I think FFXIV would be a better game if he had played KOTOR, FFXIII, Warcraft (OHNOES), Kingdom Hearts, Mass Effect, etc. Not because he could then make clones, but there certainly have been changes since 2002 that, I think, would make FFXIV better if he had experienced them personally.

You do not have to read Shakespeare in order to create a great novel. Nor must you watch videos of X player in order to be a running back. Many of the greats in their field became that way through trial and error and lots and lots of practice to develop their skill/style. Not because they saw what someone did and tried to build on top of that (some did, but those aren't people I would consider masters of their craft).

I know it's just an example to get your point across.. That he would have a better idea of what it takes to make improvements on other games in XIV. My point is he has an entire team of people who are doing that because he is on the project management side of the house. I'm sure they are aware of every single change that has been made to competing games and experienced them first hand. It makes more sense to have the dev team doing that instead because ultimately they will be the ones to fix it.

Even with all that said, it could be a political answer and he has been playing other games all along.

As far as the law comparison goes, I only meant to say that law is a living thing that changes every day and is not just black and white/wrong or right. I would compare law to life. Something that changes constantly and has many other things that can be considered "circumstantial" to affect or completely change the end result. Even in what could be viewed as a simple case of self defense, you have to ask questions like "why did he bring that gun to the toy store with him in the first place?" if it is deemed necessary. Mass effects controls are not going to change at this point so your development team telling you that the controls are awkward and would be better suited like "this" will suffice.




Edited, Jul 21st 2010 1:36pm by sixgauge
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#31 Jul 21 2010 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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sixgauge wrote:

Also, you do not have to play other games to get a full understanding of it. He has people who can do that or even go with reviews posted by the major gaming sites.


Oh I disagree. I think you can't possibly appreciate the elements that make a game great without experiencing them in context. You can discuss game balance in a mathematical context, but so many of the decisions that make a game great or poor are aesthetic rather than provably better or worse. You've heard that "a picture is worth a thousand words." Well, I think a good game is worth 100,000 words. You can't properly break it down into its discrete elements until you've experienced it as a whole.

Now I think Tanaka or any other game designer can still make great games whether or not they're aware of the cutting edge in design, but they're always going to be working within the context of the games they have actually played. Some one who cut their teeth on Legend of Zelda can make just as compelling games as some one who cut their teeth on MGS4, but they're going to approach games with a very different perspective. It certainly couldn't hurt to have played Legend of Zelda AND MGS4, to appreciate the advantages and flaws of both.

Edited, Jul 21st 2010 4:53pm by KarlHungis
#32 Jul 21 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Worded that wrong I see. I should have said Tanaka doesn't have to play other games in order for the development team to..
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#33 Jul 21 2010 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
The catch here though is that you need to spend 1500-2000 on upgrades to even play the game at decent settings or wait for the delayed PS3 launch. Both of these cons really hurt the potential for FFXIV's success in the short term.


I think this is a little exaggerated. I just built a decent rig (4400 on low, 2700 on high) for around $750. This included everything since this was my first build ever, just for this game. For another $150, I hope to hit 3500-4 on high. So for less than $1k I should be able to play at almost the highest settings.



Quote:
Next up we have a PvE only game and infamous for the worst customer service known to human kind. To top it all off, S-E doesn't listen to us unless they get slammed by the national press(IE... AV 18hr stint) I'm very concerned for those reasons and I like to think I'm not alone.


"PvE only"? Just because you like PvP, doesn't mean everybody does. There are PLENTY of people like myself that have absolutely no desire to play a PvP MMO.

SE has not soo good customer service, but the worst known to human kind? Only on the FFXI/ect boards, otherwise they're just as bad as alot of other companies.

As FFXI went on, SE slowly listened to the playerbase bit by bit. I can only hope one of the biggest things SE learned moving on from FFXI is listening to the community.
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#34 Jul 21 2010 at 5:00 PM Rating: Good
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Kadin wrote:


Quote:
Next up we have a PvE only game and infamous for the worst customer service known to human kind. To top it all off, S-E doesn't listen to us unless they get slammed by the national press(IE... AV 18hr stint) I'm very concerned for those reasons and I like to think I'm not alone.


"PvE only"? Just because you like PvP, doesn't mean everybody does. There are PLENTY of people like myself that have absolutely no desire to play a PvP MMO.


Whether you or I or any one in particular likes PvE, the decision to not include PvP does immediately discard a portion of the potential customer pool, which I think was the point. The philosophy of most "mainstream" MMOs these days is to try and do PvP and PvE in the same game.

Quote:

SE has not soo good customer service, but the worst known to human kind? Only on the FFXI/ect boards, otherwise they're just as bad as alot of other companies.


S-E is horrible on a level of its own. If you've had good experienced with them then I'm sure I won't convince you otherwise, but I've played a dozen MMOs and never seen one where the CS was as bad as Square Enix. Whether its their policies such banning people without providing a specific reason or banning people because an automated script decided that they fit a certain "profile," or whether its the inability to get a human being on the phone or in chat who has the power to tell a customer any thing or do any thing without first being provided a blood sample and five forms of ID (slight exaggeration), they're just terrible. They don't hire enough people, and the people they have are not empowered to help customers, which is made worse by the fact that their policies tend to create a LOT of customers in need of help.

Edited, Jul 21st 2010 7:08pm by KarlHungis
#35 Jul 21 2010 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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KarlHungis wrote:
Kadin wrote:


Quote:
Next up we have a PvE only game and infamous for the worst customer service known to human kind. To top it all off, S-E doesn't listen to us unless they get slammed by the national press(IE... AV 18hr stint) I'm very concerned for those reasons and I like to think I'm not alone.


"PvE only"? Just because you like PvP, doesn't mean everybody does. There are PLENTY of people like myself that have absolutely no desire to play a PvP MMO.


Whether you or I or any one in particular likes PvE, the decision to not include PvP does immediately discard a portion of the potential customer pool, which I think was the point. The philosophy of most "mainstream" MMOs these days is to try and do PvP and PvE in the same game.


I'm fine with that. The type of player who would sperg over not being able to kill other players is the type of player that can stay the **** out of my game.

KarlHungis wrote:
Quote:

SE has not soo good customer service, but the worst known to human kind? Only on the FFXI/ect boards, otherwise they're just as bad as alot of other companies.


I've played a lot of MMOs, and Square Enix is in a league of its own when it comes to terrible customer service. A lot of people in a lot of MMOs might complain about a lot of things, but some of the stuff that S-E has pulled throughout the years is almost incomprehensible compared to the majority of MMO makers.

I've never heard of another company that will ban people without giving them a specific reason. I've never heard of another company that will ban people because an automated tool decided that their behavior fit a certain profile, without even having an actual person do a sanity check to see if the banning made sense. WoW came out years after FFXI and was banning RMT and botters as a matter of ongoing policy before S-E really even started looking into the issue. The list really does go on and on, and I can't think of any other company that comes close. It's not just that they do stupid/bad stuff, but when they do stupid/bad stuff, their CS process seems designed to thwart any hope of actual customer service.

I'm not talking about "Oh gosh they don't interact with their customers directly on internet forums" I'm talking about "I've played the game for 5 years and one day I was banned for no apparent reason, and now because I can't even get an answer for why it happened or what I can possibly do to clear up this mistake."


This, I do agree on. SE's customer service is about as reliable and awesome as the wifi in an Amish town.
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#36 Jul 21 2010 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Kadin wrote:


I think this is a little exaggerated. I just built a decent rig (4400 on low, 2700 on high) for around $750. This included everything since this was my first build ever, just for this game. For another $150, I hope to hit 3500-4 on high. So for less than $1k I should be able to play at almost the highest settings.


What is your definition of high settings? 6000 benchmark with all effects on? Most people think that the PS3 version will be equal to a 5000 benchmark. I seriously doubt any rig could do that for under $1500 unless you happen to be an over-clocking genius and hit the lottery in Newegg sales. One 480 Nvidia card alone is $500 bucks.


Quote:


"PvE only"? Just because you like PvP, doesn't mean everybody does. There are PLENTY of people like myself that have absolutely no desire to play a PvP MMO.

SE has not soo good customer service, but the worst known to human kind? Only on the FFXI/ect boards, otherwise they're just as bad as alot of other companies.

As FFXI went on, SE slowly listened to the playerbase bit by bit. I can only hope one of the biggest things SE learned moving on from FFXI is listening to the community.


I never claimed to enjoy PvP so maybe you'll want to retract that statement now. The other posters summed up my feelings on S-E customer service. If you disagree that's fine, but keep in mind most people would disagree with you.

Edited, Jul 21st 2010 7:22pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#37 Jul 21 2010 at 9:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Next up we have a PvE only game and infamous for the worst customer service known to human kind. To top it all off, S-E doesn't listen to us unless they get slammed by the national press(IE... AV 18hr stint) I'm very concerned for those reasons and I like to think I'm not alone.


I was under the impression that you had some hate with "PVE only" because its in the same statement with bad customer serives. Maybe thats why there was replies defending a PVE only game and assumption that you like PVP and wants it to be included.

Quote:
Whether you or I or any one in particular likes PvE, the decision to not include PvP does immediately discard a portion of the potential customer pool, which I think was the point. The philosophy of most "mainstream" MMOs these days is to try and do PvP and PvE in the same game.


I do agree that most "mainstream MMO" are trying to do PVP and PVE in the same game, as it is some what proven to be a good game model (ex. WoW). But Final Fantasy series always tries to be "special".

I like FF series cos its different but recently "customer" has been "forcing" S.E to design game that follows mainstream staple and thus FF series is starting to lose it's uniqueness and becoming just another high-graphic game.

And the decision to "include pvp" might also immediately discard a portion of potential customer pool(minority) which totally hates PVP.
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#38 Jul 21 2010 at 10:37 PM Rating: Good
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Sleepymagi wrote:
And the decision to "include pvp" might also immediately discard a portion of potential customer pool(minority) which totally hates PVP.


*raises hand*

I played XI specifically for the fact that the PvP was extremely limited. To me, the lack of PvP is a MAJOR selling point in an industry where almost every other game is touting how PvP based they are.
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#39 Jul 21 2010 at 10:40 PM Rating: Decent
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SE came up with a way to keep PvP and PvE balanced without one impacting the other in FFXI. If something was unbalanced in PvP (like say RNG's Sidewinder WS which could one shot player characters) they just adjusted it in PvP while leaving PvE alone.

To use the Sidewinder example, that WS would do less damage in PvP but work the same as always in PvE.
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Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#40 Jul 21 2010 at 10:46 PM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Kadin wrote:


I think this is a little exaggerated. I just built a decent rig (4400 on low, 2700 on high) for around $750. This included everything since this was my first build ever, just for this game. For another $150, I hope to hit 3500-4 on high. So for less than $1k I should be able to play at almost the highest settings.


What is your definition of high settings? 6000 benchmark with all effects on? Most people think that the PS3 version will be equal to a 5000 benchmark. I seriously doubt any rig could do that for under $1500 unless you happen to be an over-clocking genius and hit the lottery in Newegg sales. One 480 Nvidia card alone is $500 bucks.



I built a Core i7 860 with 8 gigs and a Radeon 5850 for around $1000 earlier this year and it gets slightly over 4000 at 1080 and around 6000 at 720.

If you took out 4 gigs and replaced the i7 with an i5 it would probably benchmark the same and hit the $800 mark.
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#41 Jul 22 2010 at 5:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Lobivopis wrote:


I built a Core i7 860 with 8 gigs and a Radeon 5850 for around $1000 earlier this year and it gets slightly over 4000 at 1080 and around 6000 at 720.

If you took out 4 gigs and replaced the i7 with an i5 it would probably benchmark the same and hit the $800 mark.


List your prices component by component. Is your rig Over-clocked in any way? I'm willing to bet you got a discount on some of those parts. The street value(normally priced parts) for a rig of this caliber shouldn't be lower than 1500.

I don't believe you could score a 5000-6000 benchmark using the i5 chip and 4gb of ram. Maybe 4000-4500, but that's not very good IMO especially considering the "PS3 limitations" version will probably score a 5000 for only 300 bucks. If you think you can build a $800 rig to run at least 5000 using normally priced components please post it.
#42 Jul 22 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
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I hate PVP too but like no one forces you to do it.

Oh and for the record despite hating PVP I thought the horde/alliance element of WOW was a pretty cool touch. Sneaking into the horde city and keeping them going because they cant find you was pretty amusing lol.
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#43 Jul 22 2010 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good
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I plan on playing FFXIV and I have never even seen WoW or FFXI played in real life. I have seen a few videos for WoW, and haven't even seen a screenshot of FFXI.

I played and raided EQ1 endgame for over 7 years. I then played and raided endgame in Vanguard for over 2 years. Between those games I have dabbled with Conan, EQ2, and Atlantica Online (a pretty decent game, btw).

Fact of the matter is that I know hundreds of other people I have raided with in the past that are just wasting time in other games waiting for the "next EQ1", which is what Vanguard was supposed to be before it imploded on itself. They may be playing WoW or some FPS games for the time being, but if the right MMO gets produced you can bet your *** they will be the loyal players that make up the hardcore endgame raiders.

A LOT of people are looking for the next EQ1, and it won't look anything like WoW, believe that. I don't know if FFXIV, or any game for that matter, can deliver the same magical awe that EQ1 offered, but it looks like it has a legitimate shot to do so.
#44 Jul 22 2010 at 6:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Lobivopis wrote:


I built a Core i7 860 with 8 gigs and a Radeon 5850 for around $1000 earlier this year and it gets slightly over 4000 at 1080 and around 6000 at 720.

If you took out 4 gigs and replaced the i7 with an i5 it would probably benchmark the same and hit the $800 mark.


Did you mean you spent around $1000 to get a Core i7 860 with 8gigs and a Radeon 5850 and upgrade your existing computer? I don't think this is the price for you to build one from scratch...
#45 Jul 22 2010 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
considering the "PS3 limitations" version will probably score a 5000 for only 300 bucks.


And you base this assumption on what, exactly?

Consider after all that the PS3 GPU is basically a GeForce 7950 GT with a narrower data bus and fewer renderer output units - i.e. a scaled down version of a GPU that by itself doesn't meet the PC version's minimum requirements. The vastly over-hyped and overrated Cell processor can only make up for so much...
#46 Jul 22 2010 at 8:41 PM Rating: Decent
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BastokFL wrote:

And you base this assumption on what, exactly?

Consider after all that the PS3 GPU is basically a GeForce 7950 GT with a narrower data bus and fewer renderer output units - i.e. a scaled down version of a GPU that by itself doesn't meet the PC version's minimum requirements. The vastly over-hyped and overrated Cell processor can only make up for so much...


I won't argue the specs of the PS3. However, you should look at what SE can accomplish with the system before you judge it. FFXIII on the PS3 looks very similar to the screen shots of FFXIV. By similar, I'm referring to the graphical style. Oh, and you seem to conveniently leave out that fact the OS and other resources forces the PC version(similar specs) to require more juice just to break even with the PS3. You can call the Cell processor over-hyped all you want. FFXIII looks good enough as far as MMO's are concerned. If S-E can replicate that graphical style on the PS3 version of FFXIV, I'll be satisfied and so will most people. I think for the first time in the history of MMO's we just might actually see more console users in the first year of service. As technology gets cheaper and people upgrade, I believe we'll see a lot of people change over a few years down the road. That's my prediction, take it for what it's worth.
#47 Jul 22 2010 at 11:51 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
BastokFL wrote:

And you base this assumption on what, exactly?

Consider after all that the PS3 GPU is basically a GeForce 7950 GT with a narrower data bus and fewer renderer output units - i.e. a scaled down version of a GPU that by itself doesn't meet the PC version's minimum requirements. The vastly over-hyped and overrated Cell processor can only make up for so much...


I won't argue the specs of the PS3. However, you should look at what SE can accomplish with the system before you judge it.


You're the one who felt the need to attach an arbitrary benchmark score equivalent for the PS3 client with nothing to go on but wishful thinking and fanboyism. The PS3 is aging hardware, and SE is not some god of programming.

Just to put things in context, let's look as SE's own words:
SE wrote:
[4500-5499] High Performance
Easily capable of running the game. Should perform well, even at higher resolutions.
[3000-4499] Fairly High Performance
Capable of running the game on default settings. Consider switching to a higher resolution depending on performance.
[2500-2999] Standard Performance
Capable of running the game on default settings.
[2000-2499] Slightly Low Performance
Capable of running the game, but may experience some slowdown. Adjust settings to improve performance.
[1500-1999] Low Performance
Capable of running the game, but will experience considerable slowdown. Adjusting settings is unlikely to improve performance.

Now you estimated the PS3 version as equivalent to a 5k benchmark score - "Easily capable of running the game. Should perform well, even at higher resolutions." I sincerely doubt that will be the case for PS3. For starters, the "higher resolutions" bit is a non-starter, as SE has already stated that the PS3 version will be running at 720p.

It's also unlikely that the PS3 version will be running with settings like the recommended PC ones. First, I can assure you that the PS3 client will not have anti-aliasing on (recommendation is for 4x MSAA, though the benchmark itself runs with anti-aliasing off). It will also likely use lower-resolution, i.e. lower quality, textures, in order to a) actually be able to fit in the PS3's limited RAM, and b) conserve the GPU's rather limited memory bandwidth.

It will nevertheless probably experience slowdown whenever there are large numbers of characters or SE's trademark fill-rate-devouring visual effects on screen. After all, FFXI on PS2 had major frame rate problems in crowded areas, and that game was designed around the PS2 hardware.

All told, the PS3 is probably closer to a 2k-2.5k benchmark equivalent than the 5k that you estimated.

Quote:
Oh, and you seem to conveniently leave out that fact the OS and other resources forces the PC version(similar specs) to require more juice just to break even with the PS3.


Not that much more. A PC OS does consume more RAM, but PCs also have significantly more RAM than the PS3. As far as processing power goes, Vista uses about 8-10% of my CPU's power, and it's an older, slower CPU. And Vista, at least, uses almost none of the GPU's capacity, because Vista now does most of it's drawing in software.

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I think for the first time in the history of MMO's we just might actually see more console users in the first year of service.


1. How is that in any way important or meaningful?

2. FFXI already did that; It was PS2-exclusive for the first 6 months, and Japan-exclusive for the first 17 months. (Japan being the only territory where the majority of players - an overwhelming majority in fact - played on PS2.)
#48 Jul 23 2010 at 12:53 AM Rating: Decent
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BastokFL wrote:

You're the one who felt the need to attach an arbitrary benchmark score equivalent for the PS3 client with nothing to go on but wishful thinking and fanboyism. The PS3 is aging hardware, and SE is not some god of programming.


I'm going to assume you didn't play the PS2 version of FFXI or there recent DS titles either. S-E is a programming God on the consoles, but they ***** up the PC games for some reason. If anything, there's a better chance S-E is lazier on the FFXIV PC version simply because they can just force people to upgrade. Look at how badly FFXI was ported. I'm not implying FFXIV will be THAT bad, but you have to admit it was lazy of them. No other word besides lazy fits. The PS3 is locked in their base settings so S-E can't really cut any corners.

Quote:

Now you estimated the PS3 version as equivalent to a 5k benchmark score - "Easily capable of running the game. Should perform well, even at higher resolutions." I sincerely doubt that will be the case for PS3. For starters, the "higher resolutions" bit is a non-starter, as SE has already stated that the PS3 version will be running at 720p.

It's also unlikely that the PS3 version will be running with settings like the recommended PC ones. First, I can assure you that the PS3 client will not have anti-aliasing on (recommendation is for 4x MSAA, though the benchmark itself runs with anti-aliasing off). It will also likely use lower-resolution, i.e. lower quality, textures, in order to a) actually be able to fit in the PS3's limited RAM, and b) conserve the GPU's rather limited memory bandwidth.

It will nevertheless probably experience slowdown whenever there are large numbers of characters or SE's trademark fill-rate-devouring visual effects on screen. After all, FFXI on PS2 had major frame rate problems in crowded areas, and that game was designed around the PS2 hardware.


What did you think about FFXIII's graphics on the PS3? Maybe I'm easy to impress, but the eye candy was glorious. You're probably right that SE will use a few tricks to bolster its limited ram. That's to be expected. Will it run so laggy as a 2000 Benchmark PC machine, I sure hope not.

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All told, the PS3 is probably closer to a 2k-2.5k benchmark equivalent than the 5k that you estimated.


Most tech people I talk to believe the PS3 will perform around the 5000 benchmark. Those people all happen to be game developers I knew from school. So pardon me if I take their word over yours. If S-E can push out a game in 720 that looks similar to FFXIII's eye candy effects without lagging, I'll be satisfied.

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Not that much more. A PC OS does consume more RAM, but PCs also have significantly more RAM than the PS3. As far as processing power goes, Vista uses about 8-10% of my CPU's power, and it's an older, slower CPU. And Vista, at least, uses almost none of the GPU's capacity, because Vista now does most of it's drawing in software.


Windows Vista and 7 suck down close to 1GB of ram just for the OS. How you can justify this like it's no big deal. Then we have all those open tabs like Firefox and virus protection running the background. Do I seriously have to open my Task manager to prove my point here?

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1. How is that in any way important or meaningful?

2. FFXI already did that; It was PS2-exclusive for the first 6 months, and Japan-exclusive for the first 17 months. (Japan being the only territory where the majority of players - an overwhelming majority in fact - played on PS2.)


Sorry I was referring to the NA release, my mistake. It's important though because some people out there feel a console MMO is a stupid idea and waste of time. I think that because of the insane specs required to run FFXIV at "decent settings", the Ps3 version will do much better than expected back at last year's E3 announcement. The Ps3 might be aging, but your average player won't have a good enough system to play it anyways. Most of us aren't prepared to spend $1000 bucks on an unproven game just to update our PC that works just fine with everything including Crysis. Plus the economy is terrible so I can see many more console users this time around.
#49 Jul 23 2010 at 1:28 AM Rating: Decent
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DrymChaser wrote:
cealis wrote:
Hmm if they want to get new people to play mmorpg then i really hope the put their time in the startingzones and get people around with controls and all that sort of things.

FFXI was a real pain with that you really needed to have some friends ingame to get things started else you didnt get anywhere as a new player.

Also hearing about the questrepeating i wonder if that means we get some sort of daily questsystem, what use is it to repeat a quest if the reward isn't good.
And if they reward it the best way is gil as items really don't make it better i think.


No need to worry about this, I'm sure the Brady Guide will have all the answers all us newbs will need.


That guide is one of the largest pieces of nostalgia for me. My friend Dez and I would stay up all night playing FFXI then go to iHop at 6AM and drink coffee turning the pages planning out our awesome PLD/DRK uber class. Ah the memories.. Wow 2003, I was only 18 years old.. *sheds a single tear*
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#50 Jul 23 2010 at 1:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It will nevertheless probably experience slowdown whenever there are large numbers of characters or SE's trademark fill-rate-devouring visual effects on screen. After all, FFXI on PS2 had major frame rate problems in crowded areas, and that game was designed around the PS2 hardware.


this even happens on xbox 360 with FFXI.
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#51 Jul 23 2010 at 1:59 AM Rating: Default
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