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No Bonus at all for Race? What about clan?Follow

#1 Jul 20 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Default
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Obvs no one can tell me for sure with NDA and all - but it sort of boggles my mind to think there won't be any differences between the races at all... and I wonder too about the clans - if there is no difference - is there any point?

I wonder if there will be RSE type EQ and racial/clan specific storylines and quests. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants more info before choosing their race.

Would knowing more about any differences between races and clans change things for folks?

I'm all for things being less uneven - as a taru in FFXI - it was fun to kick **** with the MP pool - but I have to say that race probably had the worst stats for the most jobs (it was not even the best race for all of the magic heavy jobs - for example, BLU - which had a lot of STR stat spells)

As a taru in FFXI I almost felt like if I didn't have a job that used MP I was wasting my only strength. I don't want it to be that way again - but some minor variation in races would be neat.
#2 Jul 20 2010 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
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It might change my plans a bit if I load the game up and see bigger differences in the races then expected. I was the opposite of you in XI being a Galka, and was kinda looking forward to trying the Roegadyn without severe penalties to the magic stats. If there are small differences it still sounds like the Hellsguard clan would slant slightly better in magic stats so that's an option.

If the stat differences are of little to no concern, maybe your ideas are right that there will be some race-specific storylines & quests. Maybe some interesting mixes concerning your race & chosen god as well. All speculation here on my part though...
#3 Jul 20 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I doubt that clan will offer that much of a differance, it would be kind of silly to handycap someone more for skin color than species :P I could be wrong though, who knows it could be harder to play a gladiator than a spell caster as a Midlander Hyur, but I doubt it.

While some of the clans so far give off a feal like they might be geared twards one style I realy doubt it will be as big a differance as the Taru's MP was.
#4 Jul 20 2010 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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I don't want racial differences to be so big they would be a handicap - but it would be neat if there were some small stat differences or bonuses - say to one stat or whatever - if there isn't any difference at all it could be kind of cool but it also takes the specialness away as well.

I am leaning pretty heavily towards dunesfolk lalafell or hellsguard roegadyn myself. I'm a chick so I think it would be funny to be a roegadyn... and plus I always played taru so it would be outside of my comfort zone or whatever. I think I'll probably have a male toon regardless though.

I wonder if many people will choose Hyur if there are no penalties at all on race - I can't understand wanting to (but I am open to being enlightened) - it just seems kind of boring
#5 Jul 20 2010 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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I hope different clans would have somewhat different line of quests to start, I think it helps bonding the player to the character. But in terms of racial abilities or stats, I do hope this time there won't be too much different.
#6 Jul 20 2010 at 8:46 PM Rating: Good
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zurinadrg wrote:
it would be kind of silly to handycap someone more for skin color than species :P


Human beings have been doing it for years. Just sayin'

I consider myself a bit of a traditionalist when it comes to RPGs, back to the days of P&P D&D 1E/2E. As far as I'm concerned, different races should have different abilities. Either stat differences or racial traits and abilities or SOMETHING. Making the only difference be aesthetics feels wrong to me.
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#7 Jul 20 2010 at 8:51 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with diffrent races should have diffrent starting stats, even if its just one or 2 points. Just makes scence really, muscles built diffrent ways should be overall diffrent stats. Also diffrent genetics, turkey and ham taste diffrent :P

mmm taru burgers and mith-kabobs...

Edited, Jul 20th 2010 10:52pm by Puppy1
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#8 Jul 20 2010 at 9:06 PM Rating: Good
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I think it has more to do with how the class system works. As they've stated you can do everything on one character. So from the beginning you can be whichever class you want and be on equal footing.
If there were noticeable differences between races then say you started off as a melee focused character then wanted to switch to magic you are automatically gimped. Which would undermine their point of being able to switch to any class and be effective.
#9 Jul 20 2010 at 9:27 PM Rating: Good
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Txndokie wrote:
I think it has more to do with how the class system works. As they've stated you can do everything on one character. So from the beginning you can be whichever class you want and be on equal footing.
If there were noticeable differences between races then say you started off as a melee focused character then wanted to switch to magic you are automatically gimped. Which would undermine their point of being able to switch to any class and be effective.


You mean like in FFXI where different races had different stats?

Sure, a Taru MNK will likely get outdamaged by an Elvaan MNK or a Mithra MNK and they can nuke harder and more than an Elvaan or Galka... yes, some races were better than others at certian jobs. But -good- players played their job well in spite of their race. Elvaan MP was second lowest to Galka and my first two 75s were WHM and BLM in that order.

You either overestimate how "gimped" you would be or you haven't played XI.
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#10 Jul 20 2010 at 10:04 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess some of it is what you read into official SE information. They say that everything in the game will be available to you on 1 character, but that doesn't also mean that the 1 character will potentially excel in all areas. What that means exactly, I don't know. You would think there'd be some differences to make for different challenges. Using the FFXI example, there's somethin' to be said about a really good Galka mage or a Taru DD/PLD(Plus taru monks looked cool). Though some of the good equipment to counter the racial gimp was astronomically priced, it was doable with RSE gear & such. So while they've said the differences won't be as extreme, you'd think something is in store to make playing with different race/clan unique. I don't want them completely dumbing it down to make the game way too easy. I'm keeping faith in SE to find the right balance...
#11 Jul 20 2010 at 10:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Ya know, I wrote a whole thread on this a long time ago and nobody liked it lol.

Quote:
zurinadrg wrote:
it would be kind of silly to handycap someone more for skin color than species :P


If the clans aren't different, what is the point? Hellsgaurd are supposed to be masters of magic where as Seawolfs are.. well, seawolfs ! Highlander's are obviously not the progressive thinking Midlanders and are obviously stronger. I want everyone to play what they want to play without a handicap but I thought that was the whole purpose of clans to begin with. Oh well whatever. :/
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#12 Jul 20 2010 at 10:26 PM Rating: Good
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GuardianFaith wrote:

If the clans aren't different, what is the point?

You don't need stat differences for there to be worthwhile story/lore.
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#13 Jul 21 2010 at 12:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't like racial differences personally. Innate differences that you can spec equally by endgame are fine, but the min/maxer in me hates having to make a choice between preferred appearance and preferred stats. The supposed lack of realism doesn't bother me at all, either.
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#14 Jul 21 2010 at 2:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Exactly Kachi, to many MMO players are minmaxers for real differances to be a good thing in an online game with a magor selling point of doing everything on one character.

Magor racial differances work in table top games and EQ/WoW, for very differant reasons, but it is the way the games are setup that makes it work well.
If there isn't a balance there will be issues in game, as there were in XI, most people who enjoyed the game were just willing to overlook it.
#15 Jul 21 2010 at 5:26 AM Rating: Good
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I have to say that I'm undecied on this one. I like that there are differences when it comes to what race you choose to play. I would just find it retarded if a taru tank would take just as much of a beating as a galka tank.
BUT, if do like the idea that all the races start off equal so you really could do anything you wanted without limitations. If I had to pick tho, I'd have to go with there being race bonuses, even clan bonuses. Eh, just makes it more interesting to me I guess.
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#16 Jul 21 2010 at 7:11 AM Rating: Good
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Lady Bardalicious wrote:
GuardianFaith wrote:

If the clans aren't different, what is the point?

You don't need stat differences for there to be worthwhile story/lore.


Agreed. Just because a given race or clan is given a particular background story, your starting stats don't necessarily need to reflect that. But if you really want to stick to the lore that's given, just build your character as if you actually were part of that race/clan. What if I want to play a character who is breaking away from his clan, or was born without magical abilities, or something to that effect? Giving everyone a neutral starting point provides the best opportunity to craft your character the way you want.
#17 Jul 21 2010 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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As for starting stats, since the game emphasizes we can be anything with any class, and players are able to redistribute stats points anytime in game (probably with some restriction), maybe everyone start with a certain amount of points and when you create your charactor, you can distribute the points freely?
#18 Jul 21 2010 at 12:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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I hope there are no bonuses. The main reason I picked Hume in FFXI was because they were the only "all around" race and being that you could play multiple jobs on one character it made sense. Probably play a Galka in FFXIV. Wanted to be one in FFXI but the MP pool sucked and my first job was WHM. If they want to give some sort of a novelty bonus that has no affect on class performance, I'd be alright with that.

Edited, Jul 21st 2010 1:08pm by Harri
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#19 Jul 21 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
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It's not gonna happen but why not pick your own base stats when you start (like Oblivion... I think it was Oblivion..?), then you're stuck with them.

Personally I think having everything the same is a stupid idea, but I agree that in FFXI it was too much of a handicap for taru PLD or galka mage etc.

And why no passive racial abilities like in WOW? Nothing major but just small perks?
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#20 Jul 21 2010 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I have to say that I'm undecied on this one. I like that there are differences when it comes to what race you choose to play. I would just find it retarded if a taru tank would take just as much of a beating as a galka tank.
BUT, if do like the idea that all the races start off equal so you really could do anything you wanted without limitations. If I had to pick tho, I'd have to go with there being race bonuses, even clan bonuses. Eh, just makes it more interesting to me I guess.


lol I rated you up and it scholar'd you ! yay!
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#21 Jul 21 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Probably play a Galka in FFXIV. Wanted to be one in FFXI but the MP pool sucked and my first job was WHM.


That's what the Hellsguard are supposed to specialize in. I guess just lore wise since everyone wants equal stats.
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#22 Jul 21 2010 at 2:08 PM Rating: Decent
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@djbenny I really like the passive racial abilities.

But as far as stats go, I kinda like the idea of subtle differences.

I like the idea of the race and clan making difference in stats. But in way such that you could pick a race and not deal with too much of a penalty by choosing a clan.

Examples (and just examples):
Lalafell: Dunes -> Magic / Plains -> Strength / Both-> Agility
Hyur: Midlands -> Magic / Highlands -> Defense / Both-> Dexterity
Roegadyn: Sea Wolves -> Dexterity / Hellsguard -> Magic / Both-> Defense
Elezen: Wildwood -> Acc / Duskwight -> Dexterity / Both-> Strength
Miqo’te: Sun -> Magic / Moon -> Strength / Both-> Dexterity

Maybe even gender could play a role as well??


Edited, Aug 5th 2010 1:03pm by skluse
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#23 Jul 21 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I always thought that non-combat differences should be in place. I don't know how it would work but something to make races different without gimping one for a certain job.
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#24 Jul 21 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Good
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I really really would prefer it if there were differences that could be overcome later on with gear etc. I absolutely hate ultra homogenization. In any form, whether its between classes or races.

I want my decisions to have weight. Even the ones I make when I first install the game and start creating my character. It adds depth. I'm utterly sick of this new mcdonalds fast food mentality that is taking over the world, now including mmorpgs. Toss together whatever you want, whatever looks good, in a hurry, don't bother with weighing pros and cons, just do it!


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#25 Jul 21 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Fetter wrote:
I really really would prefer it if there were differences that could be overcome later on with gear etc. I absolutely hate ultra homogenization. In any form, whether its between classes or races.

I want my decisions to have weight. Even the ones I make when I first install the game and start creating my character. It adds depth. I'm utterly sick of this new mcdonalds fast food mentality that is taking over the world, now including mmorpgs. Toss together whatever you want, whatever looks good, in a hurry, don't bother with weighing pros and cons, just do it!


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By overcome with gear, how exactly do you mean? Do you mean it like if you started a Galka with super low mana pool, but at the end, you'll be able to get a piece of gear that'll boost up your mana pool so now the Galka also has as much mana as a Taru at same level with same level gears? If that's the case, what's the difference for this and starting with same stats?
#26 Jul 21 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I really really would prefer it if there were differences that could be overcome later on with gear etc. I absolutely hate ultra homogenization. In any form, whether its between classes or races.


Yeah I kind of feel the same way though I think FFXI was a little to harsh to the other side of things.

Quote:
I like the idea of the race and clan making difference in stats. But in way such that you could pick a race and not deal with too much of a penalty by choosing a clan.

Examples (and just examples):
Lalafell: Dunes -> Magic / Plains -> Strength / Both-> Agility
Hyur: Midlands -> Magic / Highlands -> Defense / Both-> Dexterity
Roegadyn: Sea Wolves -> Dexterity / Hellsguard -> Magic / Both-> Defense
Elezen: Wildwood -> Acc / Duskwight -> Dexterity / Both-> Strength
Miqo’te: Sun -> Magic / Moon -> Strength / Both-> Dexterity

Maybe even gender could play a role as well??


This is a cool idea.
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