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What helped me decide to buy a SSDFollow

#1 Jul 20 2010 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I didn't buy no 200GB SSD for $800 but I did buy a 80GB to hold my OS and FFXIV (and whatever other single player games I'm playing at the time). Reguardless if your interested in SSD, then this youtube video you will love.

http://www.youtube.com/user/NCIXcom?blend=2&ob=1#p/u/4/-lR0XoHFU6Y
#2 Jul 20 2010 at 7:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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I feel like that video would get the average person to decide against a SSD. The restart was 10-15 seconds faster, most of the other examples were 1-5 seconds faster. Then comes the $4.5 per gb on the SSD and $.10 per gb on the Hard Drive. I plan on getting an SSD for the computer I'm building, but if I didn't know anything and saw that video I would never dream of getting one!
#3 Jul 20 2010 at 7:06 PM Rating: Good
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I have two WD Raptors striped for max speed Smiley: grin No seek time bottleneck here Smiley: thumbsup
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#4 Jul 20 2010 at 7:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I would live with the 10seconds delay with HD when I could save like 800 dollars and get more capacity out of a HD
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#5 Jul 20 2010 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe next winter when I make the switch to i7. For now I can be more than happy with my Raptor. That said I still want one...
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#6 Jul 20 2010 at 8:24 PM Rating: Decent
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YukonWildAss wrote:
I feel like that video would get the average person to decide against a SSD. The restart was 10-15 seconds faster, most of the other examples were 1-5 seconds faster. Then comes the $4.5 per gb on the SSD and $.10 per gb on the Hard Drive. I plan on getting an SSD for the computer I'm building, but if I didn't know anything and saw that video I would never dream of getting one!


Wow really? I was allready gonna get a SSD but was even more excited after seeing the video because I didn't think the difference was gonna be that dramatic. You say only 10-15 seconds on the reboot but the reboot only takes like 40 seconds to begin with, so even 10 seconds is a 25% performance increase, but more important to me is the nice things like being about to use my computer while something HD taxing is happening (like searching or antivirus). quick alt tab while playing online competitive games, etc. all what you could call little 5-6 seconds increases but that 5-6 seconds is a life time if your in the middle of pvp or something and have to alt tab for some reason real quick.
#7 Jul 20 2010 at 9:30 PM Rating: Decent
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As much as I've been wanting a SSD boot drive for awhile it just doesn't make sense for me with what I want to do space wise. At least not price wise right now.

I would need at least a 120GB for my main drive and they are just a bit too much right now. About $300 for a good drive. Or 2 120GB in raid 0. :P

I need good write speed as well and I want to make sure these drives have all of their kinks completely worked out (trim, mobo compatability, RAID support, full Windows 7 support (meaning I don't have to adjust anything too much)) I've been reading a lot of little compatibility problems coming up here and there especially with RAID.

Plus in my general workload I would still have to dump my data to storage (most likely a 1TB) then to a NAS for backup. Meaning I'd rather wait for a 500+GB SSD to eliminate data moving.

I'm just not sold yet although my HDD is the weakest link in my (and most) computers in terms of bottlenecks.
#8 Jul 20 2010 at 9:40 PM Rating: Default
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Kierk wrote:
As much as I've been wanting a SSD boot drive for awhile it just doesn't make sense for me with what I want to do space wise. At least not price wise right now.

I would need at least a 120GB for my main drive and they are just a bit too much right now. About $300 for a good drive. Or 2 120GB in raid 0. :P

I need good write speed as well and I want to make sure these drives have all of their kinks completely worked out (trim, mobo compatability, RAID support, full Windows 7 support (meaning I don't have to adjust anything too much)) I've been reading a lot of little compatibility problems coming up here and there especially with RAID.

Plus in my general workload I would still have to dump my data to storage (most likely a 1TB) then to a NAS for backup. Meaning I'd rather wait for a 500+GB SSD to eliminate data moving.

I'm just not sold yet although my HDD is the weakest link in my (and most) computers in terms of bottlenecks.


Why do you need 120 GB on your main HD? You only need to put Windows on it. You could map your documents folder to a folder on the second (non SSD) drive.
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#9 Jul 20 2010 at 9:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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That somewhat defeats the purpose of the SSD if you aren't going to put your applications on it, no?

Mind you, putting media on a secondary HD is definitely acceptable.
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#10 Jul 20 2010 at 10:26 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Why do you need 120 GB on your main HD? You only need to put Windows on it. You could map your documents folder to a folder on the second (non SSD) drive.


I do audio production, and some photoshop editing/manipulation.

The recorded tracks (@96khz) on the audio side take up not only a lot of space but can benefit from higher reads and writes of the SSD. Meaning I could use the speed of the drive actively.

Plus I would need sample (prerecorded audio loops and the like) storage and that takes a lot of space but wouldn't gain the benefit of the read speeds if they were housed on a HDD.

Also I would want ample space for any other games I would play, Office, Photoshop and Cubase, virtual machines and any other main programs I would need, that is to say, if I wanted the performance boost from the SSD, which I would.

Yes I could have a storage HDD then take a folder and move it on the SSD 'pool' when I'm manipulating it, but that really is too much that I want to deal with. Plus Cubase really doesn't like dealing with files it can't find and I don't want to redirect it everytime. I just want to work.

In the end, I would actually be using the speed of the drive (not just wanting things to open up faster) and in a perfect world I just want 1 main HD (a larger SSD) and an auto back up to a NAS. This world will exist probably this time next year. :)

Oh I almost forgot. I need it to be quiet as well. Right now I have a fanless 8800GT and I'm waiting on a very passive cooler (if not fanless; I'm not holding my breath) for a GTX 460.

But like all things this depends on how FFXIV runs on my system. :)




Edited, Jul 21st 2010 12:27am by Kierk
#11 Jul 20 2010 at 10:48 PM Rating: Good
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Personally, I can live with the longer load times until SSDs becomes cheaper.
#12 Jul 20 2010 at 11:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Are all SSDs compatable with any MoBo that has SATA ports? this is the first i heard of these and they look awesome but the price difference between them and HDDs is something of a worry.
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#13 Jul 20 2010 at 11:20 PM Rating: Good
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Have your cake and eat it too. . .

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148591&cm_re=seagate_momentus_hybrid-_-22-148-591-_-Product

And for a lot less than a full SSD
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#14 Jul 20 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Good
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SolidMack wrote:
Are all SSDs compatable with any MoBo that has SATA ports? this is the first i heard of these and they look awesome but the price difference between them and HDDs is something of a worry.


Odd that it's the first time you've heard of them. They are a relatively new product (though, old technology) but still have been out for a few years. They are compatible with any motherboard.

I think I remember someone mentioning doing a lot of writing tasks on the SSD...I'd just like to point out that when it comes to writing SSDs don't last as long as HDDs. They only have so many writes in them. This is why most people only use them for their OS drive and a game or two and then do everything else on a HDD. They can read as many times as you want and wont crash but they only have so many writes in them which makes them ideal for the OS.
#15 Jul 21 2010 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
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Yogtheterrible wrote:
I think I remember someone mentioning doing a lot of writing tasks on the SSD...I'd just like to point out that when it comes to writing SSDs don't last as long as HDDs. They only have so many writes in them. This is why most people only use them for their OS drive and a game or two and then do everything else on a HDD. They can read as many times as you want and wont crash but they only have so many writes in them which makes them ideal for the OS.

The limited writes thing is one of the main arguments against SSDs at this point. However, they still last a few good years, so that by the time you'd need a replacement, the drives will be significantly cheaper anyway. On top of that, while HDDs are capable of lasting longer, they frequently don't. Mechanical failures aren't an issue with SSDs, so you know it will last until those writes expire.

Mikhalia wrote:
Why do you need 120 GB on your main HD? You only need to put Windows on it. You could map your documents folder to a folder on the second (non SSD) drive.

Even if you install programs and map documents to a secondary drive, there's no getting around many programs installing application data and putting other files in predefined areas on your Windows drive. Even with registry tweaks to redirect those directories, your Windows drive will slowly creep up towards capacity until you start getting those evil Low Disk Space errors. Of course, that doesn't mean you need 120GB for it, I find 50 to be appropriate, but in case you've forgotten XIV's system requirements, they want 12GB of free space just for ApplicationData (on top of the 15GB install)! He may also want to install programs on the SSD too, to take advantage of the speed, so a higher capacity drive is fine for that if he wants to pay for it; though to be honest, a 40/50GB Windows drive and a 60-80GB SSD for programs would be a safer setup, but to each his own.
#16 Jul 21 2010 at 8:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Wait so being as clueless about computers as I am, am I understanding correctly that I can get an SSD drive large enough to fit an OS and say FFXIV and just get a regular HDD to save other things on?
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#17 Jul 22 2010 at 5:33 AM Rating: Decent
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SolidMack wrote:
Wait so being as clueless about computers as I am, am I understanding correctly that I can get an SSD drive large enough to fit an OS and say FFXIV and just get a regular HDD to save other things on?


That's right. But do you think it's worth the money?
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#18 Jul 22 2010 at 6:22 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm a big fan of ssd's but most gamers would benefit more from a stronger video card used with the money saved by using a conventional drive by a large margin. IMO SSD's are one of those things you do after you already have the best of everything in a computer.
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#19 Jul 22 2010 at 7:13 AM Rating: Decent
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@Threx: no probably not, for me personally, I'm on a budget so if I'm going to spend an extra couple hundred dollars I would dump it on a better GPU rather than an SSD but I love how fast the SSD can access things. Can't wait 'til they go down in price and become the norm.

EDIT: yea, exactly as Levish said.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2010 9:14am by SolidMack
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#20 Jul 22 2010 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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I seem to recall hearing that fragmentation that occurs on SSD's can become problematic. No idea if they've since resolved that issue, I might go hunting for the article I remember reading later today.
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#21 Jul 22 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm no expert myself but I believe that issue has been solved with Trim.
#22 Jul 22 2010 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
I have two WD Raptors striped for max speedSmiley: grin No seek time bottleneck here Smiley: thumbsup


Even with Raptors in Raid0, spindle drives can't compete with SSD's on seek latency. I guarantee you are still bottlenecked by them.
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#23 Jul 22 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
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I'd wait until the PCIe SSD drives come down in price before I'd bother. The performance of those is pretty sick. A cool grand for a 250GB one right now is pretty ridiculous though. The difference between a SATA SDD and a conventional platter drive isn't worth the cost in my opinion. Like Wint said, I'd rather use the money that a SDD would cost me to get two platter drives and put them in a raid stripe. But if you're on an unlimited budget and don't care about value for your money, then SSD is definitely the way to go.
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#24 Jul 22 2010 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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Pickins wrote:
Wint wrote:
I have two WD Raptors striped for max speedSmiley: grin No seek time bottleneck here Smiley: thumbsup


Even with Raptors in Raid0, spindle drives can't compete with SSD's on seek latency. I guarantee you are still bottlenecked by them.


Ok, I'll amend that to say no noticeable bottleneck. Or at least, it's not a factor and an investment in a SSD would have a minimum ROI. Smiley: smile
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#25 Jul 22 2010 at 12:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah that's really cool but I'll just have to deal with load times. I can't really justify spending 5x the ammount of money on 1/5 of the storage space. It is incredible though. If I was loaded, I'd def buy one.
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#26 Jul 23 2010 at 6:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
I seem to recall hearing that fragmentation that occurs on SSD's can become problematic. No idea if they've since resolved that issue, I might go hunting for the article I remember reading later today.


Fragmentation on a SSD has absolutely no effect. What you are thinking of is performance degradation after use, more specifically that any drive doesn't actually delete a file when you "delete" it, it just gets marked for deletion if the space is needed.

Normal drives don't really suffer much performance loss, but MLC SSD's do due to the way they need to write to a area thats already been written to and marked for deletion.

Windows 7 with TRIM capable drives and the correct drivers make this a non issue, furthermore almost all drives sold in the past year or so have what is referred to as "Garbage collection" which does the same thing TRIM does but is driver/OS independent, its kinda like a background task running only on the harddisk itself.
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#27 Jul 23 2010 at 9:34 AM Rating: Good
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Here's an article I read a while back on the whole thing with SSD and performance/fragmentation issues. The article is actually about macs and why there is no trim support for OS X, but there's an EXCELLENT description of what TRIM [for PCs] is, how it works, and why, etc.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/apple/2010/07/01/mac-ssd-performance-trim-in-osx/1
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#28 Jul 23 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks for all the clarifications, green arrows for all!
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#29 Jul 23 2010 at 5:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
Thanks for all the clarifications, green arrows for all!


Awwww I wanted a cookie :(
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#30 Jul 23 2010 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
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Puppy1 wrote:
Wint wrote:
Thanks for all the clarifications, green arrows for all!


Awwww I wanted a cookie :(


Smiley: cookie

Smiley: grin

Edited, Jul 23rd 2010 6:37pm by Wint
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#31 Jul 25 2010 at 10:49 PM Rating: Good
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So, I ordered a new PC from CyberPower just recently. One of the "freebies" it came with was a Kingston SSDNOW 30GB SSD in addition to a 1TB Hitachi HDD. I didn't do much research into this area, and I only blame myself for it. Works fine and all, but as I was worried about, the SSD only had a few GB of space left on it, right out of the box. I can already see Windows and other files on it slowly taking up space, even though I only install new stuff to the bigger drive.

It was free, it didn't even have to be there, so I won't cry about that. But I want to keep the perks of having a SSD boot drive, so I want to upgrade. Any suggestions on which brand, or what size I should look for? I was thinking maybe just an 80GB would do the trick. Just enough room for the OS, and for that matter, maybe FFXIV exclusively.
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#32 Jul 26 2010 at 12:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Ya I'm actually regretting the 50GB drive that I decided to buy. I didn't fully think it through and well It's certainly not gonna hold Windows 7 and FFXIV. Windows 7 ultimate 64 bit alone brought me down to 22GB with a fresh install, before updates and drivers for everything else. Not a huge deal but still depressing, reguardless I'm just gonna buy a 80GB, leave the 50GB SSD as a boot drive, the 80GB drive for FFXIV and other games/applications that I'm using alot at the time, and of course a 1TB normal drive for everything else. Point of course is that had I used a bit more brain power, it would of obviously been cheaper to just buy a 120GB SSD to begin with instead of a 50GB and 80GB serperatly.

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