Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

Strange QuestionFollow

#1 Jul 24 2010 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
39 posts
This might be a strange question but with the exception of the few times I played Civilization I have never really played PC games so FFXIV will be my first real PC game experience (had a computer built for me that can handle it) so I have a strange question.

Will I need a gamepad? or is moving around in a MMORPG with just a mouse and keyboard easy?
#2 Jul 24 2010 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
158 posts
Most people play MMO's with mouse and keyboard. Movement and camera shifting for me are easiest with a mouse, and all your abilities get keybound to the keyboard. You can buy gaming mice as well which you can also keybind to.

However as FFXIV is also being developed for the PS3, it's quite possible that the combat and movement system may have been designed with PS3 controls in mind, so you may find using a controller more intuitive.

At the end of the day it's your choice, but mouse and keyboard are 'the norm' for mmorpgs.
#3 Jul 24 2010 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
Anterograde Amnesia
Avatar
*****
12,363 posts
It's traditional to use a KB and Mouse. However, I used a combination of keyboard and PS2 controller (with a PS2 to USB adapter) for FFXI which worked great, and I expect I will be able to do the same with this game as well.

However, do you need a game pad? No.

In fact, if you have a PS3, you could use a PS3 controller, there exist drivers to connect your PS3 controller to your PC, if you happen to have a bluetooth dongle for it (or have bluetooth built in).

Edited, Jul 24th 2010 10:42am by Wint
____________________________
"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#4 Jul 24 2010 at 10:23 AM Rating: Decent
***
2,120 posts
I played 11 with a gamepad and the keyboard as well because playing a game without a controller just feels wrong to me. So if you've been playing on consoles for 99% of your life it might be something to look into. Though it doesn't hurt to try playing with keyboard/mouse if ya like...
#5 Jul 24 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Good
*
87 posts
Wow. I really don't know. Civ is a pretty hard game. Yeah, I'm going to say you're a gamer at heart, but came into it late. In that case, you score! USB game pads are cheap now, and you can enjoy discovering for yourself what works best for you.

Yeah...weak answer. I think you'll have fun though.
#6 Jul 24 2010 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
Sage
Avatar
**
325 posts
You could plug in your PS3 controller with your USB cord. The program is called motioninjoy and you have full motion capabilities (including sixaxis)

Source:
motioninjoy

Edited, Jul 24th 2010 10:47am by Veagan
____________________________
FFXIV
Name: Z'veagan Brolz
Server: Ultros
Linkshell/FC: Lootwhorindramafest
#7 Jul 24 2010 at 5:07 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
398 posts
I plan to use a bluetooth keyboard and mouse with my PS3, hopefully the PS3 version will suport them.
#8 Jul 24 2010 at 11:08 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,537 posts
All I'll say is that using a dual-analog style gamepad should work very well for this game.
____________________________

Activities:
FFXIV Beta Test
Starcraft II Silver League
#9 Jul 25 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
**
749 posts
And this is all *I'LL* Say about this:

http://www.rahulsood.com/2010/07/console-gamers-get-killed-against-pc.html

Sure, the rules and controls are vastly different in an MMO VS FPS. . but let's face it. A Keyboard/mouse combination is a much more elegant weapon for a more civilized age. Not as random or clumsy as a noobstick. . . . .
____________________________
http://www.rantmedia.ca/newsreal/
http://www.piratepartyradio.com


The Truth is a virus
#10 Jul 25 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
****
4,150 posts
seneleron wrote:
A Keyboard/mouse combination is a much more elegant weapon for a more civilized age. Not as random or clumsy as a noobstick. . . . .

Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it.

Wrong franchise, I know, but I'm a Star Wars nerd. Had to start what you finished, or something.
____________________________
FFXI-Garuda 2003-2009; Lakshmi 2011-8/20/13 (retired)
FFXIV: ARR - Ghost Bear, Balmung server
#11 Jul 25 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
*
242 posts
I have it on exceedingly good authority that, at least as of right now, FFXIV is MUCH easier to play on a gamepad that it is on keyboard.

The "rumors" that I've heard specifically mention CAMERA CONTROLS as the primary reason for this enormous benefit.
____________________________


#12 Jul 25 2010 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
**
576 posts
JayRams wrote:
I have it on exceedingly good authority that, at least as of right now, FFXIV is MUCH easier to play on a gamepad that it is on keyboard.

The "rumors" that I've heard specifically mention CAMERA CONTROLS as the primary reason for this enormous benefit.


I really hope the controls are very similar to FFXI. I had no problem moving with the number pad and moving the camera with the direction keys. The only caveat was that I almost always ran in first person mode.
____________________________
FFXI, Siren: Pickins BST99.:~:.BLM75.:~:.RDM56
FFXIV, Siren: Miss Pickins - Builder of the Realm
#13 Jul 25 2010 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
*
242 posts
Quote:
I really hope the controls are very similar to FFXI. I had no problem moving with the number pad and moving the camera with the direction keys. The only caveat was that I almost always ran in first person mode.


With the exception of keyboard camera controls, I believe you'll be pleased. If you look in the right places, you can find substantiation of this...
____________________________


#14 Jul 25 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Excellent
**
576 posts
JayRams wrote:
Quote:
I really hope the controls are very similar to FFXI. I had no problem moving with the number pad and moving the camera with the direction keys. The only caveat was that I almost always ran in first person mode.


With the exception of keyboard camera controls, I believe you'll be pleased. If you look in the right places, you can find substantiation of this...


Unfortunately, it seems that the keyboard camera controls have been moved. That will really hamper my playing style. Hopefully I can remap them to suit my purposes.

I really prefer not to have to repeatedly pick up and set down a controller...

____________________________
FFXI, Siren: Pickins BST99.:~:.BLM75.:~:.RDM56
FFXIV, Siren: Miss Pickins - Builder of the Realm
#15 Jul 25 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
*
242 posts
Quote:
Unfortunately, it seems that the keyboard camera controls have been moved. That will really hamper my playing style. Hopefully I can remap them to suit my purposes.

I really prefer not to have to repeatedly pick up and set down a controller...


I remember FFXI feeling awkward until I got used to it. I think we'll probably all have to re-learn / adapt.
____________________________


#16 Jul 25 2010 at 10:11 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,218 posts
JayRams wrote:
Quote:
Unfortunately, it seems that the keyboard camera controls have been moved. That will really hamper my playing style. Hopefully I can remap them to suit my purposes.

I really prefer not to have to repeatedly pick up and set down a controller...


I remember FFXI feeling awkward until I got used to it. I think we'll probably all have to re-learn / adapt.

FFXI never felt natural to me. If they don't adopt the general industry standard for camera controls and mouse look (or at least enable that option) then I'll probably play with a gamepad and KB.
#17 Jul 25 2010 at 11:40 PM Rating: Excellent
KarlHungis wrote:
JayRams wrote:
Quote:
Unfortunately, it seems that the keyboard camera controls have been moved. That will really hamper my playing style. Hopefully I can remap them to suit my purposes.

I really prefer not to have to repeatedly pick up and set down a controller...


I remember FFXI feeling awkward until I got used to it. I think we'll probably all have to re-learn / adapt.

FFXI never felt natural to me. If they don't adopt the general industry standard for camera controls and mouse look (or at least enable that option) then I'll probably play with a gamepad and KB.


Lol, it's so nice to see someone saying this instead of OMGZ IF THEY DONT FIX THERE CONTROL'S (translated, make them WOW's) ILL NEVR PLAY AND TEH GAME WILL PHAIL !@&)(&*^


Not that I'm against a more customizable UI/camera.
#18 Jul 25 2010 at 11:51 PM Rating: Decent
JayRams wrote:
I have it on exceedingly good authority that, at least as of right now, FFXIV is MUCH easier to play on a gamepad that it is on keyboard.

The "rumors" that I've heard specifically mention CAMERA CONTROLS as the primary reason for this enormous benefit.
I have it on exceedingly good authority that the reason players keep praising gamepad is because certain groups of MMO gamers keep trying to use keyboard+mouse rather than JUST keyboard, which works nicely.

FFXI people know what I'm talking about.
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#19 Jul 25 2010 at 11:56 PM Rating: Good
***
1,218 posts
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
KarlHungis wrote:
JayRams wrote:
Quote:
Unfortunately, it seems that the keyboard camera controls have been moved. That will really hamper my playing style. Hopefully I can remap them to suit my purposes.

I really prefer not to have to repeatedly pick up and set down a controller...


I remember FFXI feeling awkward until I got used to it. I think we'll probably all have to re-learn / adapt.

FFXI never felt natural to me. If they don't adopt the general industry standard for camera controls and mouse look (or at least enable that option) then I'll probably play with a gamepad and KB.


Lol, it's so nice to see someone saying this instead of OMGZ IF THEY DONT FIX THERE CONTROL'S (translated, make them WOW's) ILL NEVR PLAY AND TEH GAME WILL PHAIL !@&)(&*^


Not that I'm against a more customizable UI/camera.


IMO there's no excuse for them to have not learned their lesson from FFXI, and it's really disappointing to me that the interface is still weird. It's not even a matter of being like WoW, because WoW didn't invent the scheme it uses, it lifted it partially from FPS games like Quake and partially from Everquest, both of which preceeded FFXI.

BUT it's S-E and by now I've learned that S-E is like the really interesting and attractive girl who has too many cats. If you want to date the lady, then you put up with the cats. If you can't deal with the cats, then you find a different lady.

I've decided that FFXIV is interesting and attractive enough that I'm willing to deal with a certain level of cat lady behavior. If they go back to double billing people or banning them for no reason again, then maybe I'll need to find a different game, but as long as it's just stuff like having to use a game pad then I can live with it.
#20 Jul 25 2010 at 11:59 PM Rating: Good
***
1,218 posts
Professor shintasama wrote:
JayRams wrote:
I have it on exceedingly good authority that, at least as of right now, FFXIV is MUCH easier to play on a gamepad that it is on keyboard.

The "rumors" that I've heard specifically mention CAMERA CONTROLS as the primary reason for this enormous benefit.
I have it on exceedingly good authority that the reason players keep praising gamepad is because certain groups of MMO gamers keep trying to use keyboard+mouse rather than JUST keyboard, which works nicely.

FFXI people know what I'm talking about.


If there any excuse to limit players to a keyboard? There's a reason why FPS, MMO and RTS games work better on a PC, and that's because a mouse is a really powerful tool for fine control. There's no reason not to take advantage of it, especially since no one's asking them to invent the wheel. There are dozens of MMOs and dozens of FPSs that have already demonstrated how you can use a two button mouse to mouse look AND control the camera at the same time AND even allow a free floating mouse cursor to click on things.

If they want to design the game world and the game engine to be friendly for console players, that's perfectly fine, but it's not a hard core PvP game. There's no reason not to allow PC users to take full advantage of having a mouse.

Edited, Jul 26th 2010 2:00am by KarlHungis
#21 Jul 26 2010 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
KarlHungis wrote:
Professor shintasama wrote:
JayRams wrote:
I have it on exceedingly good authority that, at least as of right now, FFXIV is MUCH easier to play on a gamepad that it is on keyboard.

The "rumors" that I've heard specifically mention CAMERA CONTROLS as the primary reason for this enormous benefit.
I have it on exceedingly good authority that the reason players keep praising gamepad is because certain groups of MMO gamers keep trying to use keyboard+mouse rather than JUST keyboard, which works nicely.

FFXI people know what I'm talking about.


If there any excuse to limit players to a keyboard? There's a reason why FPS, MMO and RTS games work better on a PC, and that's because a mouse is a really powerful tool for fine control. There's no reason not to take advantage of it, especially since no one's asking them to invent the wheel. There are dozens of MMOs and dozens of FPSs that have already demonstrated how you can use a two button mouse to mouse look AND control the camera at the same time AND even allow a free floating mouse cursor to click on things.

If they want to design the game world and the game engine to be friendly for console players, that's perfectly fine, but it's not a hard core PvP game. There's no reason not to allow PC users to take full advantage of having a mouse.
It's a traditional RPG, not a RTS or FPS or Diablo style clickfest. There is no reason you need fine control at all. Keyboard works just fine for camera control AND targeting, players just need to let go of "that other MMO" and get over it or they're never going to be able to enjoy anything else.
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#22 Jul 26 2010 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
I've played on consoles my whole life. FFXI with a controller was awful. Keyboard > Controller + Keyboard.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#23 Jul 26 2010 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,178 posts
Played FFXI on PC for a few years, later on 360. 360 had a keyboard but no mouse. This is largely personal preference, but here are my thoughts:

The macro system worked far better on PC. Clearly you simply hold Shift+(number) and the macro activates. With controller you have to hold down a trigger, (R2 or L2), and then directional pad over to the right macro. The split second delay can cause failure.

For BLM, equip macros were incredibly important. The keyboard was reliable. The controller had a hiccup where it would get confused if you tried to cancel out quickly to move your character. Sometimes, you would get stuck in the menu even after you let go of the trigger.

That said, I vastly preferred the controller. Why? Movement + Camera. You could control both at the same time, easily. Targeting. Direction pad targeting beats the snot out of tab, tab, tab, tab, oops missed it, tab, tab, tab.

Selecting spells from the pop-up menu became easier over time (after reorganizing it). BUT, how could I change equip prior to spells? Well, now the limited Trigger + Macro was reduced to just equip changes (Rest, Nuke, Enfeeble), rather than every spell have a unique macro. Sub-par but managable.

What does this mean for FFXIV? If the requirement, or ability to, change equip for each individual skill/spell has been removed from the combat system, then it appears we will have the freedom to use our preferred method (controller included) without sacrificing the potency offered from equip macros.

Edited, Jul 26th 2010 12:59pm by RufuSwho
#24 Jul 26 2010 at 11:58 AM Rating: Good
***
1,218 posts
Professor shintasama wrote:
It's a traditional RPG, not a RTS or FPS or Diablo style clickfest. There is no reason you need fine control at all. Keyboard works just fine for camera control AND targeting, players just need to let go of "that other MMO" and get over it or they're never going to be able to enjoy anything else.


Wow, what a doozy of a post. I can't tell if you're trolling, but I've never seen so much ignorance distilled into such a short post before, so let's dissect.

"It's a traditional RPG..."

It's an MMO. Regardless of where it fits in the spectrum of games, most people don't want to expend extra effort on controlling some thing, whether it be a Lalafell Lancer or a spreadsheet. Better interface = less effort wasted on tedious things = better game. Simple concept.

"... so you don't need fine control."

Silly argument that could be applied to any short coming. There's no sound? Well you don't NEED sound. The game is only in 640 x 480? People played games at that resolution just fine for many years. You don't NEED HD. The game is only playable with Kanji? It works fine for the Japanese. You'll figure everything out eventually by context, so you don't NEED to be able to read the text. ****, let's all play on an old Atari joystick with a single button. You don't NEED to have multiple buttons or analog control. Sure, I don't NEED fine control, but I'd sure like to have it, because there's no reason not to have it.

"Players just need to let go of 'that other MMO'... "

I'm not sure which players you're referring to, or even whether you're aware that there is more than one other MMO besides FFXI. I can assure you, from experience, that they all strive to have the best interface that they can, and the ability to mouse look and adjust the camera with just the mouse is a standard feature of virtually every non isometric PC MMO ever. If any one needs to "get over that other MMO" when it comes to interface issues, it's S-E or their boot licking apologists. It's 2010, so it's time for a mouse interface that is at least up the standards of the 1990s. No one's asking them to do some thing that every one else on earth doesn't already do.

The only reason not to do it is if there is a game play related justification for it such as "We think using a mouse gives PC users too much of an advantage in a game that's meant to be competitive" or "We've crafted a game experience that's based on our ability to dictate the camera angle to create surprises or suggest certain emotions." Neither of those, or any other reason that I can think of applies in this case. Ergo, having a weaker interface is just a flaw. In fact, the developers have talked about wanting to make group positioning an important part of the combat experience, so it stands to reason that having fluid camera controls will be important to truly experiencing the game as it is intended to be experienced.



Edited, Jul 26th 2010 4:09pm by KarlHungis
#25 Jul 26 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,450 posts
Quote:
That said, I vastly preferred the controller. Why? Movement + Camera. You could control both at the same time, easily. Targeting. Direction pad targeting beats the snot out of tab, tab, tab, tab, oops missed it, tab, tab, tab.


Hmm... I never had an issue with movement/camera using just a keyboard in FFXI.. right hand on the numpad to control movement and thumb on the arrow keys for camera control and targeting.

That being said, I'll freely admit that targeting was sometimes a pain, but it never bothered me enough to want a controller for it
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#26 Jul 26 2010 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
*
242 posts
Quote:
I have it on exceedingly good authority that the reason players keep praising gamepad is because certain groups of MMO gamers keep trying to use keyboard+mouse rather than JUST keyboard, which works nicely.

FFXI people know what I'm talking about.


Child please.

I'm an FFXI person. The controls are similar in virtually every respect but one, which is camera controls. The way it's set up is not only counter-intuitive for gamers of all stripes, but it's SPECIFICALLY counter-intuitive for people who played FFXI.

Just keyboard worked fine if FFXI. As the controls are laid out now, keyboard is cumbersome. The reason people keep praising gamepad is because it's intuitive as opposed to counter-intuitive.

Nor are people saying it's impossible to control. It just flies in the face of everything gamers have become accustomed to, INCLUDING FFXI players. IJKL camera movement (and that is the SOLE method of camera movement available by keyboard at the moment), while it works for home position, does not have the same familiarity as WADS and mouse for PC gamers, nor does it have the same familiarity for FFXI players who are accustomed to NUMPAD and DIRPAD controls.

Whereas controllers are fully configurable, so that you can use the standard left analog move, right analog camera, dirpad target/menu nav.
____________________________


#27 Jul 26 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
I'm fine with playing on a keyboard.
I'm fine with playing with a keyboard and a mouse.

I don't want to use a controller, or I'd play on PS3. I don't even -have- a PS3 controller, nor am I going to go buy one.

I played XI for years with a keyboard just fine and the looking around was fine. I do -prefer- a mouse for looking, but I'll live if it's keyboard. I don't care whether I look with my keyboard or mouse, just so long as it isn't a controller.

Just let me map my own **** buttons is all I ask.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#28 Jul 26 2010 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
***
3,450 posts
Quote:
IJKL camera movement


Hmm... yeah that wouldn't be pleasant with my right hand on the numpad.

I guess I can hope that SE's learned something about control customization... and ... y'know... allows it.

Fortunately though, even if they don't, I have another option that I didn't have while playing FFXI.. In the intervening years I've picked up one of these so I can map anything I please to my left hand controls
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#29 Jul 26 2010 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
***
1,218 posts
Callinon wrote:
Quote:
IJKL camera movement

Fortunately though, even if they don't, I have another option that I didn't have while playing FFXI.. In the intervening years I've picked up one of these so I can map anything I please to my left hand controls


I've got one of those too. It's pretty hot. My preference is to play all games with the n52 and mouse, and ignore the KB except for typing. Having a 9 button mouse helps.
#30 Jul 26 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*
246 posts
I love the Razer Naga mouse with 12 programmable macro buttons at the thumb.

When playing FFXI I played both on PC and PS2. Whether I used the keyboard + mouse or if I used the controller was dependant on what job/function I was doing in the game.

If I was playing a melee job and partying for a long time or fishing (legitimately), I preferred to use my logitech gamepad. If I was playing as a mage or crafting, I preferred to use keyboard plus mouse.

I have a feeling that I will be taking a similar approach with FFXIV. If the camera controls have changed though, then it may influence my decision to play more of just a gamepad only style. It's also nice to be able to drag the windowed PC version to a 52" HDTV and play with controller while kicking back in a recliner rather than be confined to a desk and office chair.
#31 Jul 26 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
48 posts
Maybe not so much anymore, but I remember when I was playing FFXI not a lot of people used Ventrilo or other voip programs, so it was very efficient for me to play just on the keyboard. It made switching from actions to chat very easily and fast without moving from the mouse to keyboard.
____________________________
Accumulating bad luck... One day at a time
#32 Jul 27 2010 at 12:14 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
809 posts
Compact keyboard on FFXI was the only way to go. Left hand on WASD, right hand on IJKL for camera. I tried keyboard/mouse, numpad, and controller, and they all felt cumbersome to me. I really hope FFXIV has the same option for controls.
____________________________
[insert witty sig here]
#33 Jul 27 2010 at 12:34 AM Rating: Decent
*
127 posts
Yep, the compact keyboard setup was great. WASD for character movement, and I remapped the camera movement to HJKL (vi cursor commands) and I never even had to think about the mouse. You could control camera and movement simultaneously and rarely ever had to leave home row.

Edited, Jul 27th 2010 2:37am by XelKarin
#34 Jul 27 2010 at 12:47 AM Rating: Decent
KarlHungis wrote:
Professor shintasama wrote:
It's a traditional RPG, not a RTS or FPS or Diablo style clickfest. There is no reason you need fine control at all. Keyboard works just fine for camera control AND targeting, players just need to let go of "that other MMO" and get over it or they're never going to be able to enjoy anything else.


Wow, what a doozy of a post. I can't tell if you're trolling, but I've never seen so much ignorance distilled into such a short post before, so let's dissect.

"It's a traditional RPG..."

It's an MMO. Regardless of where it fits in the spectrum of games, most people don't want to expend extra effort on controlling some thing, whether it be a Lalafell Lancer or a spreadsheet. Better interface = less effort wasted on tedious things = better game. Simple concept.

"... so you don't need fine control."

Silly argument that could be applied to any short coming. There's no sound? Well you don't NEED sound. The game is only in 640 x 480? People played games at that resolution just fine for many years. You don't NEED HD. The game is only playable with Kanji? It works fine for the Japanese. You'll figure everything out eventually by context, so you don't NEED to be able to read the text. ****, let's all play on an old Atari joystick with a single button. You don't NEED to have multiple buttons or analog control. Sure, I don't NEED fine control, but I'd sure like to have it, because there's no reason not to have it.

"Players just need to let go of 'that other MMO'... "
God you're dumb.

"Fine Control with mouse" isn't even a 'NEED' in the the "it would be nice" sense in this case, it's completely unnecessary and addition of "other MMO" style controls wouldn't improve the game at all (other than placating whiny people who refuse to try something new to them). It's like saying FFVII would be vastly improved by using a mouse to click through menus instead of d-pad + enter/A. Insisting you get some sort of added value from an additional layer of cumbersomeness that takes one hand off the keyboard is silly.
Quote:
I'm an FFXI person. The controls are similar in virtually every respect but one, which is camera controls. The way it's set up is not only counter-intuitive for gamers of all stripes, but it's SPECIFICALLY counter-intuitive for people who played FFXI.
The controls for FFXIV are almost the exact same ones I use for FFXI (compact keyboard). It's not counter-intuitive at all and it works very well with this type of game. I really think people are just too stubborn and neophobic to give it a shot.
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#35 Jul 27 2010 at 1:28 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
****
8,779 posts
one thing that was nice from ff11 (and is a part of ff14) that i missed playing WoW is that ff11/14 are designed to be played solely from a gamepad or keyboard, meaning the mouse is rather superfluous. its a nice change of pace from the sometimes frenetic WoW-style of gameplay where you really cant be fast enough at times.

course, im sure ill miss the faster pace of WoW from time to time too.
____________________________
Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#36 Jul 27 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
***
3,178 posts
This may be a good place to mention the Xbox Live voice chat. I played with a few friends on 360 and we could coordinate Weapon Skill Chains with unerring accuracy. It is too bad that the game could not have a unifying chat server (across platforms). I know SE has stated that they did want to implement this, but simply could not.

Perhaps in time VENT will evolve to be as easy to use as the chat on Xbox Live. For many, text chatting is actually preferrable. But, having seen what can be accomplished with voice chat, it certainly has its uses.
#37 Jul 27 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
RufuSwho wrote:
This may be a good place to mention the Xbox Live voice chat. I played with a few friends on 360 and we could coordinate Weapon Skill Chains with unerring accuracy. It is too bad that the game could not have a unifying chat server (across platforms). I know SE has stated that they did want to implement this, but simply could not.

Perhaps in time VENT will evolve to be as easy to use as the chat on Xbox Live. For many, text chatting is actually preferrable. But, having seen what can be accomplished with voice chat, it certainly has its uses.


I think the fact that PS3 users don't have a voice chat option that would allow them to communicate with PC users would cause too much of an issue. You might see voice chat pop up here and there like it did in XI, but it probably won't be as widespread unless there was a standardized platform that everyone could use. I'll admit that voice is helpful in certain situations over text. I love it in DDO where I can say "Trap!" to warn people rather than type it and risk them running -while- they read text, which, by the time they read it and their mind processes the thought, they've tripped the trap already.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#38 Jul 27 2010 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
***
3,450 posts
Quote:
Perhaps in time VENT will evolve to be as easy to use as the chat on Xbox Live

I've never used XBox Live chat, but I don't see how it could be any easier to use than Vent.

Never used it for FFXI, but when I started playing WoW and Aion I made extensive use of it (it was pretty much a necessity in games that're that fast), and nothing could be easier.

Assuming SE doesn't pull crazy full-screen onry shenanigans again, I expect to use it quite a bit in XIV. Beats the **** out of typing time-sensitive instructions
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#39 Jul 27 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
***
3,178 posts
I never did use windower. Only ever used Vent for Guild Wars. You had to coordinate the adress in-game, then quit, join Vent, then start back up and find your group.

I can see what you mean, if it could be done while still in-game it would be tons easier.

For Live, you just press the "X" and click a party to join, then invite friends to it. The Live menu could be navigated while in-game, making it a ~30 second process.

I had a blast playing for years on PC with text only, so it's not a huge issue. Surely its worth mentioning in the console-gaming-pros column.
#40 Jul 27 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
***
2,535 posts
Professor shintasama wrote:
"Fine Control with mouse" isn't even a 'NEED' in the the "it would be nice" sense in this case, it's completely unnecessary and addition of "other MMO" style controls wouldn't improve the game at all (other than placating whiny people who refuse to try something new to them). It's like saying FFVII would be vastly improved by using a mouse to click through menus instead of d-pad + enter/A. Insisting you get some sort of added value from an additional layer of cumbersomeness that takes one hand off the keyboard is silly.


It has nothing about any "other MMO" (which has a name, by the way; no need to be elliptical), and everything to do with SE's almost willful ignorance of evolved standard PC controls.

Like it or not, "both hands on the keyboard" gaming is NOT standard by any stretch of the imagination nowadays, regardless of genre - and insisting that prospective players just "get used to it" rather than that SE finally learn how to do PC controls properly is just asinine.
#41 Jul 27 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
***
2,120 posts
Voice chat was awesome and a big help...especially in salvage...we got so much better at that clusterf*ck when everyone could communicate quicker. And besides helping with the game, it was just more fun than a chat log. Really got to know some of your LS peoples, some a little more than you'd prefer, but still fun.
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 15 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (15)