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Lack of info and NDA still in force - good or badFollow

#1 Jul 27 2010 at 5:40 PM Rating: Decent
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We are now less than 60 days from pre-release. That means that in the very near future, if not already, SE will have the production line running to ship this game to the four corners of the Earth.

Because of this, the game must be very close to retail release (except for the large updates that we will have to download to bring the retail shipped version to current version).

The NDA is still in force and SE are really drip feeding info to the community. There could be 2 reasons for this:

1) They are trying to whip us all up into a frenzy of excitement by telling us nothing and leaving us desperate for more

2) They know that the game will not live up to the hype and letting the NDA down could affect sales of the game as people start to tell tale of how this game is not what we are all expecting.

What do you think?
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#2 Jul 27 2010 at 5:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I dunno; dumping all 18 classes is a pretty big amount of info.

The fact that the NDA is actually semi-effective, I take to mean that people are having fun in the beta and don't want to risk getting booted out of it by blabbing.
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#3 Jul 27 2010 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Personally I think that they would want it in place for both reasons.

Yes by starving us of information means that we do all we can to find out more.
I also think that they aren't happy with the level of some of the beta - perhaps because they haven't updated it yet with intended fixes or because it's currently performing sub-par and they don't want people to broadcast an opinion based on a non finished product. (Which people will do despite it being a beta, people sometimes don't view it as such.)

I also wonder when they'll actually implement more features into the beta, from what little I've heard, a lot seems to be missing from what we expect to be in the final game - if they intend to beta that in the closed public beta I don't know. I assume that they are testing certain fucntions in a more closed environment too.

I'm in two minds about if I want to know. On the one hand I am soaking up all news and info that I can, sponge-like. On the other hand, I would like to be surprised and not disappointed by unfinished stuff.
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#4 Jul 27 2010 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Kreisash wrote:
Personally I think that they would want it in place for both reasons.

Yes by starving us of information means that we do all we can to find out more.
I also think that they aren't happy with the level of some of the beta - perhaps because they haven't updated it yet with intended fixes or because it's currently performing sub-par and they don't want people to broadcast an opinion based on a non finished product. (Which people will do despite it being a beta, people sometimes don't view it as such.)

I also wonder when they'll actually implement more features into the beta, from what little I've heard, a lot seems to be missing from what we expect to be in the final game - if they intend to beta that in the closed public beta I don't know. I assume that they are testing certain fucntions in a more closed environment too.

I'm in two minds about if I want to know. On the one hand I am soaking up all news and info that I can, sponge-like. On the other hand, I would like to be surprised and not disappointed by unfinished stuff.


Halo 3 had those problems. The day the Beta went live, The Bungie's forums were spamed with threads entitled something along the lines of "OMG I AM NOT BUYING THIS HORRIBLE GAME".

For some reason people don't seem to get the concept that a beta version is testing a product that is littered with **** that will be fixed.
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#5 Jul 27 2010 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm biased in this situation, as I'm not a part of the beta and would LOVE to see as much info as possible asap, but I still believe that SE has faith in this game and the way they're going about it -- as much faith as they have in any other major Final Fantasy release, anyway. I have my concerns regarding how slowly information is being released, but I'm sure we'll have enough to go by when the game releases.
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#6 Jul 27 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Good
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Its mostly probably because they don't want people posting on websites, forums, blogs about the beta giving their opinion on the game when what people have played is still unfinished and 10% of the content is playable.
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#7 Jul 27 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Neutral...there's positive & negative spins you can put on it. I'd like more information on some of the basics so I can finalize my character, but I don't want to know too much either. Some surprise is good. I don't want to build up some vision in my head of what the game is and then be disappointed. Better to not worry about it..

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#8 Jul 27 2010 at 6:07 PM Rating: Good
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I think it's just that SE always has been secretive. Even with FFXI updates to this day, they still hold info as long as possible. Though we could use some sort of morsel of info to get us through the next month until they're ready for bigger info releases.


Mikhalia wrote:
I dunno; dumping all 18 classes is a pretty big amount of info.


It is, but isn't at the same time. We've had what info we currently have about the classes for a while now, and most of the information about abilities are for very early levels.

But the thing SE also needs to bear in mind is the speed of the internet. After a few hours, information is regarded as "old news." Not giving up new bits of major info for months seems like an eternity on the net. It's not like this game was announced at E3 2010, it's been more than a year that people have been waiting for this game and the wikibase seems bare bones -- even though it has every piece of non-NDA breaking info it can.

While marketing strategies need to be withheld till near release, at this point they should be giving those of us not fortunate enough to be in the beta a little something each week. These fan sites can easily be satisfied with that, and it'd be much appreciated so there can be something other than "will this comp run FFXIV" posts.

It doesn't have to be anything huge. Update the official site bestiary. Give a blurb about an interesting NPC. Anything but silence.

Edited, Jul 27th 2010 8:14pm by Sephrick

Edited, Jul 27th 2010 8:16pm by Sephrick
#9 Jul 27 2010 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
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As long as you don't get your hopes up, you can take anything...
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#10 Jul 27 2010 at 6:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia wrote:
I dunno; dumping all 18 classes is a pretty big amount of info.

The fact that the NDA is actually semi-effective, I take to mean that people are having fun in the beta and don't want to risk getting booted out of it by blabbing.


I'm going to agree with this statement



Edited, Aug 4th 2010 1:51pm by olaurelindorenan
#11 Jul 27 2010 at 6:14 PM Rating: Good
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It's neither. A lot of people seem to view a beta as a free demo. It's not. The fact is, it's an unfinished product. There are a number of major items that haven't even been implemented in the beta yet. If you were painting a picture, you wouldn't want people judging your product before it's really good and polished, right? That's the point of the NDA.
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#12 Jul 27 2010 at 6:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah I think mostly it's because they game is still very much unfinished. Frankly from what I've seen, I'm SUPER excited. If they dropped the NDA it could only help them at this point cuz it looks awesome! But I have also noticed alot of people saying that even the beta combat system is unfinished and will be changed before the game goes live.

(Please note that I am not in the beta nor did I get this information personally from anyone playing the beta, it's mostly just info being floated around on the net so take it for what it's worth.)

All that being said I'm terribly excited about the game's release. So if the NDA is there to keep people in suspense, then at least with me SE has done a really good job.
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#13 Jul 27 2010 at 6:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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SE has said that they want more media coverage but don't seem to realize that keeping everything super-secret is having the opposite effect.

They need to get their marketing department into full swing, or FFXIV will end up being mostly overlooked like FFXI was.
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#14 Jul 27 2010 at 7:05 PM Rating: Default
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SE wont release the NDA because theirs still a lot of stuff in the game that will or might change. Plus they want to get the big glitches out before the NDA is released. Lets just say hypothetical the servers are not stable. I doubt SE wants that to be known and maybe what other issues are going on in BETA.
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#15 Jul 27 2010 at 7:08 PM Rating: Good
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khorbin wrote:
It's neither. A lot of people seem to view a beta as a free demo. It's not. The fact is, it's an unfinished product. There are a number of major items that haven't even been implemented in the beta yet. If you were painting a picture, you wouldn't want people judging your product before it's really good and polished, right? That's the point of the NDA.


+1

There are two uses for a beta. The first is a publicity stunt, basically a free preview. The second is for testing the game and making real changes based on that testing. Some companies use the former, in which case the NDA is lightly enforced and lifted early because it really doesn't serve a purpose. Some companies use the later, in which case the NDA is extremely important because the retail game will NOT be what was experienced in the Beta. SE does not want the bugs/imbalances/un-fun stuff to be the public's first view of the game.

I've already heard people in my FFXI linkshell say they're not getting FFXIV because the leaked alpha videos were slow and laggy. This is exactly why the NDA exists and SE won't lift it until they are done polishing the game.

Again, even if you got all the info a beta tester has right now, it is all subject to change. So why does it matter if X class gets Y ability in the beta, it could be changed before the retail version is released.
#16 Jul 27 2010 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd like more info but I think the NDA is good for the reasons that capable posters above me have so wisely enumerated.

At this point I would love me some weekly updates of the official site... with just basic stuff about the cities and stuff that is missing at this point.

Also as a public relations professional I am starting to seriously wonder about SE's marketing strategy for this game.
#17 Jul 27 2010 at 7:54 PM Rating: Good
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I'd like to know more about how much your choice of God, element, starter city will affect your character.Will you get an item like the city rings in ffxi if you choose to start your race in a certain city ? Will the element you pick affect your crafting abilities? etc ...etc.
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#18 Jul 27 2010 at 7:57 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus wrote:
I'd like more info but I think the NDA is good for the reasons that capable posters above me have so wisely enumerated.

At this point I would love me some weekly updates of the official site... with just basic stuff about the cities and stuff that is missing at this point.

Also as a public relations professional I am starting to seriously wonder about SE's marketing strategy for this game.


Now you're starting to question SE's marketing? lol...
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#19 Jul 27 2010 at 8:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Mikhalia

I dunno; dumping all 18 classes is a pretty big amount of info.

The fact that the NDA is actually semi-effective, I take to mean that people are having fun in the beta and don't want to risk getting booted out of it by blabbing.


Amen, in a nondisclosing type of way.

Edited, Jul 27th 2010 10:11pm by jhariya
#20 Jul 27 2010 at 8:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I'd like to know more about how much your choice of God, element, starter city will affect your character.Will you get an item like the city rings in ffxi if you choose to start your race in a certain city ? Will the element you pick affect your crafting abilities? etc ...etc.



This is exactly what I'm getting at. As of now, there are about seven weeks until release. SE could do something like this:

Week 1: Who are the Twelve and how do they affect us?
Week 2: How do stats affect our character?
Week 3: How do elements affect our character?
Week 4: Tease trailer, perhaps one showing classes in action and a small bit about the story which is hugely a mystery.
Week 5: Info on crafting with some basic recipes.
Week 6: Bestiary expansion with more info on battle mechanics.
Week 7: Beginning of marketing push, a big reveal in a trailer.

None of that is really too in depth and likely already has been planned out and won't change much at this point. It's enough to keep fan sites talking so when week seven hits, there will be a healthy community base who isn't sitting around talking about the lack of information and snapping at new people for asking questions they've been answering for a year.
#21 Jul 27 2010 at 8:42 PM Rating: Decent
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It's still up to play damage control. There are a lot of issues with the game still, the chief among them the controls for the mouse are terrible. That and it's SE. If there weren't so many testers leaking details, we'd still be living off the breadcrumbs that SE tosses to the JP magazines.
#22 Jul 27 2010 at 8:52 PM Rating: Default
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SickleSageKiroh wrote:
Now you're starting to question SE's marketing? lol...


/blush

well, I am wondering if they have something up their sleeves, anyway...

I mean it could be that they don't want to be overwhelmed at the very beginning - they may hope to be undersubscribed when game goes live to minimize massive overload of the servers and benefit from the free marketing of post-launch hype

or they could just be weirdly cheap on the marketing front. However, it is a bit disconcerting to see bloody WoW banner ads on this site every two posts...
#23 Jul 27 2010 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
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None of that is really too in depth and likely already has been planned out and won't change much at this point. It's enough to keep fan sites talking so when week seven hits, there will be a healthy community base who isn't sitting around talking about the lack of information and snapping at new people for asking questions they've been answering for a year.
This ^^ ...Also I'd rather not spend 2 hours in the character creation when i could be playing , so it'd be nice to decide all this before hand. ;)
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#24 Jul 27 2010 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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All I can say about this is... If the game was not good, and didn't live upto the "hype" that each person has given it, then the people in beta would have no respect for the NDA or game and you would see info. all over saying "FFXIV sucks". Cause really who cares about a NDA if the games sucks and your not gonna play it anyhow. Just a thought =)
#25 Jul 27 2010 at 9:36 PM Rating: Default
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It's cooled off a lot recently. During Alpha people were going insane trying to get info out. With people being removed from testing and the rest not in testing being mad with rabies trying to get information.

I think now that they have twitter feeds and also seem to do regular updates it has quenched the thirst for a ton of people. It is overall very minimal but provides many hardcore fans that are not testing, with a significant level of comfort on how things are going.

With the way things are right now i'm sure most agree, SE isn't doing a bad job with their PR in regards to how testing is going. We usually demand a lot from companies and it seems in this instance SE is trying... more then most others do.

Oh since i didn't say it clearly, i think it's very good. The info they want us to see we see, the rest is up to the testers but i mean other then experiencing the game we still get to see a lot with what SE has given us.

whoops spelling mistakes haha

Edited, Jul 27th 2010 9:37pm by boriss
#26 Jul 27 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Let's just say that in any beta, if the game crashes or there's some minor inconvenience due to one thing or another, there's a percentage of internet dwellers that will troll/overreact. I wouldn't want that to happen to any company or any game. If a game is awful at release, then bad publicity is fine, but when it comes down to it NDAs are in place to protect the product from premature negativity.
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#27 Jul 27 2010 at 10:58 PM Rating: Decent
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marsupialboy wrote:
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None of that is really too in depth and likely already has been planned out and won't change much at this point. It's enough to keep fan sites talking so when week seven hits, there will be a healthy community base who isn't sitting around talking about the lack of information and snapping at new people for asking questions they've been answering for a year.
This ^^ ...Also I'd rather not spend 2 hours in the character creation when i could be playing , so it'd be nice to decide all this before hand. ;)


I remember that for Dragon Age, the character creator was released early so that people could have a character customized and ready to go on launch.

I would -LOVE- to see something like this for XIV.
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#28 Jul 27 2010 at 11:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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The fact that the NDA is actually semi-effective, I take to mean that people are having fun in the beta and don't want to risk getting booted out of it by blabbing.


mikhalia speaks wisdom.

Quote:
1) They are trying to whip us all up into a frenzy of excitement by telling us nothing and leaving us desperate for more


maybe. wouldnt hurt, but i think people are in enough of a frenzy as it is, so "drip feeding" wont do anything that isnt already being done.

Quote:
2) They know that the game will not live up to the hype and letting the NDA down could affect sales of the game as people start to tell tale of how this game is not what we are all expecting.


as a person in the beta, i can tell you that ***** *** **** ****.

hmm, it would appear that the recently implemented NDA enforcement patch ** ****** *********.

***** ok, because ******* *** ****** rank 7, it's easy despite the *** ********* ** * ***. which is great that they ******* **** ****** with all the weapon skills ***** ***** **** fighting bahamut ***** ******* family guy episode where brian and stewie go on that road trip in quagmires RV, ******* **** ***** great sociopolitical commentary ****** ****** ******** mi'qote farting ****** ** * *** *** * ******** *****, which, to be honest, was wayyyyy more than i thought it would be.

so i suppose, in the end, my answer would have to be a resounding "*******".
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#29 Jul 27 2010 at 11:16 PM Rating: Decent
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I can't say either way. Sure, lack of info means we could, in the words of General Ackbar, be walking into "A TRAP!!". I seriously doubt it though. While debates are still abound, if SE has learned anything from FFXI, I couldn't see them repeating all issues from the past all over again.

If there was anything serious to worry about, I'm sure SE could have just as easily not launched the PC game this early either. True, it could be to go up against WoW's upcomming expansion, but I doubt it. I won't fool myself into thinking this game will hit the ground running, with no defects either.

Personally, I'm only more excited for this game now, because it's like Christmas: It's getting closer and closer, and I really don't know what I'm getting for sure. I think we've been granted quite a bit of official information on the game thus far, enough that I feel like I'm doing homework studying and prepping for 9/22. I look forward to the joys of figuring out stuff first (more or less) and racing people to explore new areas.
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#30 Jul 27 2010 at 11:22 PM Rating: Good
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Quor wrote:
hmm, it would appear that the recently implemented NDA enforcement patch ** ****** *********.


That's ********* I'm canceling my preorder. I can't believe that ** ****** *********.

**** this game for getting my hopes up and then pulling that ****.
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#31 Jul 27 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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That's bullsh*t. I'm canceling my preorder. I can't believe that ** ****** *********.

@#%^ this game for getting my hopes up and then pulling that sh*t.


i totally feel your pain man, but **** ******** ****** works great so ******* **** ** * *** ** * ***** insane amounts of ******* ****** *** ****** which ultimately left me with a bit of chafing.

but im sure *** ** ***** **** ********* soon enough.
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#33 Jul 27 2010 at 11:40 PM Rating: Good
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a noble effort, but i dont think the ranger is gonna be very happy about this yogi.
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#34 Jul 27 2010 at 11:53 PM Rating: Default
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You honestly think anyone believes that any of those characters were you?

Obvious attempt at banning innocent beta testers is obvious....
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#35 Jul 27 2010 at 11:57 PM Rating: Good
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You honestly think anyone believes that any of those characters were you?


i think its pretty obvious which one he is, but of course, you cant see his name. any other character aside from the white-haired elezen in the middle holding a shield (of which there are literally hundreds in game) is not his character.

so in all likelihood, he wont be banned from the beta. now, i cant say how things will go here on alla, but i can guess it wont be a fun reaction, since theres a rather obvious "dont break the NDA" thread stickied at the top.
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#36 Jul 28 2010 at 4:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Muted him and will probably just forget to take it off.
#37 Jul 28 2010 at 9:42 AM Rating: Default
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If you really want info you have to find another forum.

reddit has some beta testers to don't mind putting out videos and other information
#38 Jul 28 2010 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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I think my comprehension-o-meter is broken.

Major confusion here.
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#39 Jul 28 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Aw, ****, I missed the drama.
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#40 Jul 28 2010 at 9:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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#41 Jul 28 2010 at 10:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Threx wrote:
I think my comprehension-o-meter is broken.

Major confusion here.


My guess is someone posted links to vids between Quor's 1:32 post and quor's 1:40 post. Pikko nuked it, which is why you can't see it. Whoever it was also got muted (meaning they can't post anymore).

I'd love to know who it was.
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#42 Jul 28 2010 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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My guess is someone posted links to vids between Quor's 1:32 post and quor's 1:40 post. Pikko nuked it, which is why you can't see it. Whoever it was also got muted (meaning they can't post anymore).


we have a wiener!

but yeah, it was a bunch of screenies. i hate to say it, but they looked like legit screenies, which pikko of course knew this too since shes in the beta as well. nuking commenced, beers were opened and fun was had by all.

too bad. id imagine the NDA will be coming off sometime in the next couple of weeks at the latest. i cant wait, because ill probably make a couple of threads regarding mining and marauders when that happens to showcase all the neat stuff ive seen/learned, and i feel like a kid at christmas morning eagerly waiting for everyone else to wake up so i can open my **** presents.

Edited, Jul 28th 2010 9:29am by Quor
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#43 Jul 28 2010 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Quor wrote:
Quote:
My guess is someone posted links to vids between Quor's 1:32 post and quor's 1:40 post. Pikko nuked it, which is why you can't see it. Whoever it was also got muted (meaning they can't post anymore).


we have a wiener!

but yeah, it was a bunch of screenies. i hate to say it, but they looked like legit screenies, which pikko of course knew this too since shes in the beta as well. nuking commenced, beers were opened and fun was had by all.

too bad. id imagine the NDA will be coming off sometime in the next couple of weeks at the latest. i cant wait, because ill probably make a couple of threads regarding mining and marauders when that happens to showcase all the neat stuff ive seen/learned, and i feel like a kid at christmas morning eagerly waiting for everyone else to wake up so i can open my **** presents.

Edited, Jul 28th 2010 9:29am by Quor


What you should do is type up an FAQ post and keep it in a notepad file, that way when the NDA is lifted, you can copypasta into a post and have yours up before anyone else.
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#44 Jul 28 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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i was thinking of something like that. itll give me something to do since the kids i work with are all sick this week :(
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#45 Jul 28 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Even if the game does have a ton of issues when It's launched I'll still continue to play as long as there actively fixing the issues. All games have a lot of issues in the beggining, the only thing that matters is how they handle it. I know the game is gonna get better so I dont sweat it. The only way I quit is if a major bug pops up like the ability to create infinite amounts of gold that should not exist. If the servers arent rolled back then I quit, cause well you just ruined the entire game as far as I'm concerned.
#46 Jul 28 2010 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The only way I quit is if a major bug pops up like the ability to create infinite amounts of gold that should not exist. If the servers arent rolled back then I quit, cause well you just ruined the entire game as far as I'm concerned.


**** near every game has exploits like that. I've played MMOs since UO, and I've seen a lot of cheaters get banned for duping and other exploits. Most legit players don't hear about 99% of exploits until the game company announces "over 9,000 people have been banned for TOS violations" or some general term like that. On rare occasions you might hear what the violation actually was. Generally by the time they announce it they have already fixed the bug.

Edited, Jul 28th 2010 3:48pm by khorbin
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#47 Jul 28 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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If it makes you feel any better, SE is pretty notorious for banning the everliving **** out of people who abuse exploits. Look up all the people who got banned over the Salvage dupe glitch.
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#48 Jul 28 2010 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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****, SE banned players from XI for selling certain pieces gear to an NPC in the Tavnazian Safehold.
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#49 Jul 28 2010 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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And after sombody gets banned its a very "yes you were banned so goodbye"
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#50 Jul 28 2010 at 6:56 PM Rating: Good
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Also don't forget the bannings if your turned Rusty Caps into normal ones and sold them in Robao. A lot of questionable bannings over the years, but SE's word is law after all.
#51 Jul 28 2010 at 10:15 PM Rating: Good
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Sephrick wrote:
Also don't forget the bannings if your turned Rusty Caps into normal ones and sold them in Robao. A lot of questionable bannings over the years, but SE's word is law after all.


I knew they nerfed the Rusty/Padded Caps, but I didn't know they actually banned for that. That wasn't really an exploit IMO; people found an item with a limited, manageable, producable supply that they could synth to make a profit. It wasn't like that item where you could buy it from an NPC and sell it back for more than you paid for it and repeat it infinitely. You weren't duping items and you werent' doing something that could be infinitely repeated with no work (you still had to fish up or buy the rusty caps). You could fish up an item and NPC it for money, and that's not an exploit; I don't see how it's an exploit to fish up an item, synth it into something better, and THEN sell it. Banning for that would have been stupid.

Again, not saying they didn't, but if they did, then that was pretty stupid.
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