Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
This Forum is Read Only

FatigueFollow

#1 Jul 28 2010 at 11:29 PM Rating: Good
**
409 posts
I've been reading up on other MMOs lately and everywhere I look I'm seeing "fatigue" systems in the newer games.

I just want to say, that has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever seen in a video game. There is no better way to drive away customers than telling them they're only permitted to play a certain amount of time a day. We are not in 7th grade and you are not our ****ing parents. If I pay for a month's subscription of play I **** well better have access to it 24/7 for the next month or I can guarantee you I will not be playing again.

So thank you Square-Enix for not adding some retarded gimmick to try and get us to be healthier, more well adjusted human beings. If I wanted that I'd be reading a self-help book, not playing an MMO.
____________________________
Q: How many SE employees does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None, it's working as intended.
#2 Jul 29 2010 at 12:00 AM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
Amen. Fatigue was half of the reason I quit Allods. That and perfumes.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#3 Jul 29 2010 at 12:27 AM Rating: Good
***
2,120 posts
I hadn't been paying attention to the other games, but I figured they'd be doing stuff like that eventually. There's a big push to deter people from playing long periods of time, especially children. Also a response to the various child deaths resulting from neglect because the parents were too addicted to mmorpgs. Nevermind that they're a tiny minority of all the players, it must be the game's fault. Typical. Not to say that's not an awful thing, but it's another case of some dopes potentially ruining the fun for the rest of us. But if enough people learn about that kind of thing happening, the game companies then have to protect themselves. Which is usually a genius idea that penalizes other people for the stupidity of others. Friggin' nonsense...
#4 Jul 29 2010 at 1:50 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
255 posts
Responsibility is on the user, or in some cases the users parents.

You don't blame the crack dealer for the addict.
____________________________
[img]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxiv/15834_3d32ad424a3db4b1.png[/img]
#5 Jul 29 2010 at 6:08 AM Rating: Good
***
1,022 posts
Agreed. If I can only hop on once every two weeks or so, I don't want to be kicked off a few hours in on the only day I can play.
____________________________
Main character: AutumEmber
60blm/whm Rank 7 Windurst
Linkshell: SeraphsDarkside
Server: Bismarck
#6 Jul 29 2010 at 6:25 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,523 posts
Quote:
Also a response to the various child deaths resulting from neglect because the parents were too addicted to mmorpgs.


Wth -__-
____________________________
____(>°°)D_->__(O°°)>-_<(;,,;)>_C-(°°Q)__O~~_t(°°<)_(;o0)___<(;,,;)>_<(;,,;)>_<(;,,;)>_<(;,,;)>_<(;,,;)>_____

#7 Jul 29 2010 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,450 posts
Yeah I am with RedGalka on this one... wtf. How lame do you have to be to let your kid die because you are playing an MMO. If you are that selfish you should be removed from the gene pool.
____________________________
Rhodekylle wrote:
In a world where studies show marriages now run into trouble after three years, it is probably to be expected that games lose their enchantment at least as quickly.
#8 Jul 29 2010 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
RedGalka wrote:
Quote:
Also a response to the various child deaths resulting from neglect because the parents were too addicted to mmorpgs.


Wth -__-


He's not making this up.

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/thread/499555-parents-starved-baby-to-death-because-of

"Korean parents (41yo male, 25 yo female) starved their 3-months-old prematurely born child to death as they were to busy playing RPG Online Prius, some Internet-based game where you have to... raise virtual kid.

Everything happened 5 months ago, but they were arrested last week. Autopsy confirmed that death was caused by insuffiicient amount of food." [all errors sic]
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#9 Jul 29 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
**
287 posts
I have to say this is the first time I've heard of a fatigue system that dictates how long you can play, though I've had experience with the 'fatigue' system that was part of XI's fishing. I can't imagine having a game tell me how long I can play it. I do hope SE adopts a rest system though, a nice bonus for those who can't be logged in for a large amount of time yet still have a way to catch up to the pack.
____________________________
Guns dont kill people. Rangers and Hunters with guns kill people.
Jefro420 wrote:
I won't be checking anyone in the BC ward that doesn't have star over their head from now on.





#10 Jul 29 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
770 posts
Mikhalia wrote:
RedGalka wrote:
Quote:
Also a response to the various child deaths resulting from neglect because the parents were too addicted to mmorpgs.


Wth -__-


He's not making this up.

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/thread/499555-parents-starved-baby-to-death-because-of

"Korean parents (41yo male, 25 yo female) starved their 3-months-old prematurely born child to death as they were to busy playing RPG Online Prius, some Internet-based game where you have to... raise virtual kid.

Everything happened 5 months ago, but they were arrested last week. Autopsy confirmed that death was caused by insuffiicient amount of food." [all errors sic]


Wow thats compeltly messed up. Wish I could say im suprized but... MMORPGS are adticive i agree but still... just wow...
____________________________
I do not suffer from insanity.. I rather enjoy it.

{retired} Devalynn Mithra WHM extrodinare -Garuda (gives everyone a high paw! yeah!)

Church OF Mikhalia
#11 Jul 29 2010 at 2:50 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,120 posts
Yeah that one's even more messed up considering the type of game they were playing. That's like, Shakespearean-level tragic irony...
#12 Jul 29 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
**
761 posts
A lot of the fatigue systems were implemented to slow down RMT who farm 24/7. It just sucks when it effects the regular player base, I work 5 days a week and I usually play a lot on the weekends!
____________________________
FFXI: Gonz on Titan

FFXIV: Ninja Wind on Besaid

WoW: Ninjawind on Andorhal-US

[ffxisig]137247[/ffxisig]


#13 Jul 29 2010 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
**
761 posts
If full moon/new moon would hit on the weekends in FFXI I would fish the entire thing, usually around 6 hours I hated it when fatigue would kick in.
____________________________
FFXI: Gonz on Titan

FFXIV: Ninja Wind on Besaid

WoW: Ninjawind on Andorhal-US

[ffxisig]137247[/ffxisig]


#14 Jul 29 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
**
647 posts
My vote for is against Fatigue system.

Was a very sad story, but no suprise. There is alot of people in the world anything original being said has already been said. Same with death I suppose you introduce anything knew to everyday life (net, games) theres just a different way or reason for someone to die. The possibility is always there, just who is going to suffer from it first. Just like life, death is needed. You can die of old age in your bed or be neglected by your parents playing a dumb game.
#15 Jul 29 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
770 posts
Didnt ffxi have a displamer saying preety much dont waste your life on a game? remember ot deal with reality as well?
____________________________
I do not suffer from insanity.. I rather enjoy it.

{retired} Devalynn Mithra WHM extrodinare -Garuda (gives everyone a high paw! yeah!)

Church OF Mikhalia
#16 Jul 29 2010 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,120 posts
Puppy1 wrote:
Didnt ffxi have a displamer saying preety much dont waste your life on a game? remember ot deal with reality as well?


Yup, I laughed & took that as a bit of a joke the first time I read it. Apparently it was more important than that.
#17 Jul 29 2010 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
770 posts
TwistedOwl wrote:
Puppy1 wrote:
Didnt ffxi have a displamer saying preety much dont waste your life on a game? remember ot deal with reality as well?


Yup, I laughed & took that as a bit of a joke the first time I read it. Apparently it was more important than that.


Yeah thought so, I thought it was funny at first too, but after a while you relaize its acually a disclaimer so they cant be sued :P im sure that they dont have to put 'fatigue' in there for that reason :) (least i hope)
____________________________
I do not suffer from insanity.. I rather enjoy it.

{retired} Devalynn Mithra WHM extrodinare -Garuda (gives everyone a high paw! yeah!)

Church OF Mikhalia
#18 Jul 29 2010 at 5:36 PM Rating: Decent
*****
11,539 posts
Yeah, as I've said in another thread, the FFXI "Don't forget your real life" warning is like putting "Don't smoke so many that you get cancer, m'kay?" on cigarettes. You can put it there, but people are just gonna ignore it.

With Allods, there was a fatigue system that, if you ran past your fatigue bar and kept doing quests and grinding, it would ruin your overall XP, such that you would end up having to spend MORE time grinding LATER when you ran out of quests.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#19 Jul 29 2010 at 6:17 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
350 posts
I agree with not having fatigue. The only reason I can see it being useful is for making it more difficult for RMT, but even then I don't think it works because RMT will just find easy ways around it. In FFXI, the fishing system had fatigue, but it's easy enough for RMT to get around that... they just have multiple characters, so once one gets fatigued they can just switch to a different one.

The problem with fatigue systems is that RMT easily find ways around them so they end up just bothering non-RMT players.
#20 Jul 29 2010 at 6:21 PM Rating: Decent
*
50 posts
If I want to throw my social life away for the entire week after release, I best be able to.

On the other side of the argument, maybe they could implement a bonus kinda like WoW, perhaps it would give you a bonus to XP for a set time depending on how long you were offline. This could help people who only log on for brief periods be able to solo and make a fair amount of xp doing so.
____________________________


#21 Jul 29 2010 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
770 posts
Mikhalia wrote:
Yeah, as I've said in another thread, the FFXI "Don't forget your real life" warning is like putting "Don't smoke so many that you get cancer, m'kay?" on cigarettes. You can put it there, but people are just gonna ignore it.


Whole heatedly agree lol, but disclamers are great so ya dont get sue'd :P or if you do, you can say "It was right there in front of you". sure people will still argue with I didnt see it, still dosnt mean it wasnt there though.
____________________________
I do not suffer from insanity.. I rather enjoy it.

{retired} Devalynn Mithra WHM extrodinare -Garuda (gives everyone a high paw! yeah!)

Church OF Mikhalia
#22 Jul 29 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
72 posts
What games use this? It sounds terrible.
#23 Jul 29 2010 at 7:01 PM Rating: Default
**
409 posts
The most popular game to use a fatigue system as far as I know was Aion. Don't get me wrong, I've never played Aion so I don't know how fatigue works there, but I have played a few F2P MMOs that have a fatigue system were if you play for extended periods of time, the xp you gain drops by a certain percent to the point that if you play over a certain amount of hours you'll end up getting 0 xp no matter what you kill or what quests you complete.


(Also, holy crap when did I get Sage? o.O)



~Edited for spelling cuz my fingers are being stupid right now~

Edited, Jul 29th 2010 9:02pm by SickleSageKiroh
____________________________
Q: How many SE employees does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None, it's working as intended.
#24 Jul 29 2010 at 7:06 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
770 posts
SickleSageKiroh wrote:
(Also, holy crap when did I get Sage? o.O)



Must be having your manhood in a forge lol ;) I have no idea when I got sage myself. peopel must have likes your opinions :) grats.



____________________________
I do not suffer from insanity.. I rather enjoy it.

{retired} Devalynn Mithra WHM extrodinare -Garuda (gives everyone a high paw! yeah!)

Church OF Mikhalia
#25 Jul 29 2010 at 7:28 PM Rating: Decent
SickleSageKiroh wrote:
The most popular game to use a fatigue system as far as I know was Aion. Don't get me wrong, I've never played Aion so I don't know how fatigue works there.


Aion only had the fatigue system on the Korean and Chinese servers, which correct me if I'm wrong is pretty much the norm in those country's. The way it worked was if you play for over 3 hours your Exp & drop rate gets reduced by 30% unless you log out for 3 hours. I sort of remember NCsoft accidently patching that in at one point to the NA/EU servers people where furious. My friend who plays 16 hours a day never seen him so mad lol, funny times.
#26 Jul 29 2010 at 7:47 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
546 posts
what would be wrong with a system that say, only lets 1 person play for 12 hours a day max? **** if youre doing more than that, u got serious problems neway. But then again , it could be trouble say for big HNM fights or say people that just dont log out even when not playing. I can manage my own game management just fine and i pray im never on for more than 12 hours of a 24 hour day, but i can see some people having trouble with this.
#27 Jul 29 2010 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
***
2,120 posts
HIGHTONE wrote:
what would be wrong with a system that say, only lets 1 person play for 12 hours a day max? **** if youre doing more than that, u got serious problems neway. But then again , it could be trouble say for big HNM fights or say people that just dont log out even when not playing. I can manage my own game management just fine and i pray im never on for more than 12 hours of a 24 hour day, but i can see some people having trouble with this.


It's more about the principle of it for me. It doesn't sound bad when ya put it that way, but it's something I'm paying a monthly fee for and my access shouldn't be controlled by someone else. That's like the FCC & cable companies creating a system that cuts your cable off if it's been on for so many hours straight. Or a monthly limit. Anything like that, small as it may be, is nibbling away at my freedom and that's unacceptable. Especially if it involves video games!
#28 Jul 29 2010 at 8:19 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
770 posts
Hmmm For thoes who have kids, Would you like there to be an otion for Forced imposed times? or would you rather control it yourself.. or, do you not realyl care how much times your kids spend on games?
____________________________
I do not suffer from insanity.. I rather enjoy it.

{retired} Devalynn Mithra WHM extrodinare -Garuda (gives everyone a high paw! yeah!)

Church OF Mikhalia
#29 Jul 29 2010 at 8:23 PM Rating: Decent
*****
11,539 posts
Puppy1 wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:
Yeah, as I've said in another thread, the FFXI "Don't forget your real life" warning is like putting "Don't smoke so many that you get cancer, m'kay?" on cigarettes. You can put it there, but people are just gonna ignore it.


Whole heatedly agree lol, but disclamers are great so ya dont get sue'd :P or if you do, you can say "It was right there in front of you". sure people will still argue with I didnt see it, still dosnt mean it wasnt there though.


Denis Leary wrote:
It doesn't matter how big the warnings on the cigarettes are; you could have a black pack, with a skull and crossbones on the front, called TUMORS, and smokers would be around the block going, "I can't wait to get my hands on these ******* things! I bet ya get a tumor as soon as you light up!"


edhoo wrote:
What games use this? It sounds terrible.


Someone mentioned Aion, I also mentioned Allods. Allods had this system where, as you killed stuff, you got "fatigue XP" up to a certain point. Once you turned in your fatigue bonus, you doubled the amount of XP you got up to a certian point (including quest XP)

The problem was, the game DEPENDED on you using the fatigue XP. So if you played past your fatigue bar, you wouldn't get double quest XP, so you would run out of quests and have to waste additional time grinding. Basically, the game punished you for "playing too much" by making you play EVEN LONGER to compensate for it.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#30 Jul 29 2010 at 8:26 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
72 posts
HIGHTONE wrote:
what would be wrong with a system that say, only lets 1 person play for 12 hours a day max? **** if youre doing more than that, u got serious problems neway. But then again , it could be trouble say for big HNM fights or say people that just dont log out even when not playing. I can manage my own game management just fine and i pray im never on for more than 12 hours of a 24 hour day, but i can see some people having trouble with this.


The problem is that I am paying to play the game, I should be allowed to play as much or as little as I want.
#31 Jul 29 2010 at 8:41 PM Rating: Good
***
2,120 posts
I was totally thinking of Denis Leary when writing some of my opinions. His comedy and that movie Demolition Man. A future world where the government illegalized swearing, junk food, etc. Scary place, good movie...
#32 Jul 29 2010 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
edhoo wrote:
HIGHTONE wrote:
what would be wrong with a system that say, only lets 1 person play for 12 hours a day max? **** if youre doing more than that, u got serious problems neway. But then again , it could be trouble say for big HNM fights or say people that just dont log out even when not playing. I can manage my own game management just fine and i pray im never on for more than 12 hours of a 24 hour day, but i can see some people having trouble with this.


The problem is that I am paying to play the game, I should be allowed to play as much or as little as I want.


Exactly. It's one thing when I was a kid to have my parents tell me how long I'm allowed to play a game. I am not a kid and SE is not my parent. Considering -I- am paying -them- to play the game, I would not appreciate -them- telling -me- how long I can play it.

This goes back to ****** laws like the legislation passed to ban toys in happy meals and ****... it is YOUR responsibility to manage YOUR life, it is not someone else's responsibility to prevent you from doing what you want, lest you get carried away. Some people can handle playing games for 14-16 hours on days off of work, some can't.

Is it really that much worse than watching TV instead? How would you feel if Comcast/Verizon/Cox/etc shut your TV off after 12 hours of usage a day? Or if your cell phone provider shut off your cell phone after X number of calls because they have decided they don't want you talking on the phone all day?

It's a person's individual responsibility to set their own limits as needed, and to deal with the consequences if they fail to set those limitations properly. It should not inconvenience EVERYONE just because a few people are unable to control themselves.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#33 Jul 29 2010 at 9:27 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
418 posts
The 'fatigue' system is nothing but an active 'rest xp' system.

How is this preventing players from being on the game for extended periods of time?

I'm currently playing Allods and it took me til level 8 to figure out this 'fatigue xp' system. Huge bonus.. but it was not necessarily needed because I XP'ed fine without it. Then again, it took me til level 6 to figure out wtf an incense was used for. That incense made the game 10x easier.

The whole rest xp and fatigue xp system does actually benefit players for taking breaks for the game due to XP bonuses when they return. However, there's no need at all to 'rely' on this. Sure, if you want to get level cap a lot faster.

Personally, I'm a fan of the fatigue XP setup. I'm also a fan of rest XP. Then again, I have things to do in life that don't allow me to play every day for 8 hours a day. I'm assuming if I had several hours every day to play, I would not be able to take advantage of these systems due to the fact that I've already used them up within an hour of my playtime.

Sure, it may be an edge for casual players to use these systems.. but that's up to the game dev's.
____________________________
FFXIV (Wutai - Archer): Andarou Shun

FFXI (Carbuncle/Bahamut) + Various MMOs: Jiruu

www.jiveturkeyco.info --- z7.invisionfree.com/FFXI_Prophecy --- www.myspace.com/x_dazed
#34 Jul 30 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Decent
*****
11,539 posts
Jiruu wrote:
The 'fatigue' system is nothing but an active 'rest xp' system.

How is this preventing players from being on the game for extended periods of time?

I'm currently playing Allods and it took me til level 8 to figure out this 'fatigue xp' system. Huge bonus.. but it was not necessarily needed because I XP'ed fine without it. Then again, it took me til level 6 to figure out wtf an incense was used for. That incense made the game 10x easier.

The whole rest xp and fatigue xp system does actually benefit players for taking breaks for the game due to XP bonuses when they return. However, there's no need at all to 'rely' on this. Sure, if you want to get level cap a lot faster.

Personally, I'm a fan of the fatigue XP setup. I'm also a fan of rest XP. Then again, I have things to do in life that don't allow me to play every day for 8 hours a day. I'm assuming if I had several hours every day to play, I would not be able to take advantage of these systems due to the fact that I've already used them up within an hour of my playtime.

Sure, it may be an edge for casual players to use these systems.. but that's up to the game dev's.


I dunno how high you are in Allods, but if you keep turning in quests after the fatigue bar is used up, you're going to run out of quests and have to grind. Once you get past your teens, areas had almost exactly the number of quests you needed to level; that is, doing every single quest would progress you. The game pretty much depended on the idea that you're only going to turn in quests when you have fatigue XP active. That is, unless they added a TON of new quests in the areas outside of Nezebgrad since I quit.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#35 Jul 30 2010 at 4:28 AM Rating: Decent
*
50 posts
HIGHTONE wrote:
what would be wrong with a system that say, only lets 1 person play for 12 hours a day max? **** if youre doing more than that, u got serious problems neway. But then again , it could be trouble say for big HNM fights or say people that just dont log out even when not playing. I can manage my own game management just fine and i pray im never on for more than 12 hours of a 24 hour day, but i can see some people having trouble with this.


I'd have trouble with this. I'm having surgery in August and I won't be able to drive. **** right there will be 12+ hour days for me, haha.
____________________________


#36 Jul 30 2010 at 7:01 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
255 posts
What's ****** up about even having a disclaimer in place is that you don't get calls from your local supermarket/farmer reminding you that you should eat from time to ******* time. It's your personal responsibility.

If you don't **** you can die, if you don't eat you can die - we're not just now figuring these things out...

It sucks that SE need to protect themselves - and from what? - Litigious Mother ******** - that's who.
____________________________
[img]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxiv/15834_3d32ad424a3db4b1.png[/img]
#37 Jul 30 2010 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
Papanurf wrote:
What's @#%^ed up about even having a disclaimer in place is that you don't get calls from your local supermarket/farmer reminding you that you should eat from time to @#%^ing time. It's your personal responsibility.

If you don't **** you can die, if you don't eat you can die - we're not just now figuring these things out...

It sucks that SE need to protect themselves - and from what? - Litigious Mother @#%^ers! - that's who.


The problem is that we live in a world where no one wants personal responsibility; whenever anything goes wrong, the first thing people do is look for someone to blame. Blame the video games for violent kids, blame the tobacco companies for cancer, blame the fast food chains for obesity... it's all about blaming someone else and making them give you money to make up for your lack of personal responsibility.

That's why you see so many disclaimers, they're there so that the companies can fight fire with fire. "You say our game caused him to neglect his work and -we're responsible? Well, here's our warning not to neglect your work right here. We did our part, we're not responsible."

It's not there because the company genuinely cares about the well being of their customers (I mean, I'm sure they care about their customers to a point obviously); it's there because they care about not getting sued by customers who have no self control and no desire to take the fall for the consequences of their own actions.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#38 Jul 30 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
***
2,536 posts
I'm also against the fatigue system.

Would be better if they just implemented a system where you see "GO FEED YOUR DOG" flash in the middle of your screen after every few hours of play or something. Sounds ridiculous, I know, but much preferred by me.
____________________________
FF11 Server: Caitsith
Kalyna (retired, 2008)
100 Goldsmith
75 Rng, Brd
Main/Acc
Exp/Hybrid
Str/Attk
Spam/Others
#39 Jul 30 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Good
***
3,178 posts
I would not play a game with a fatigue system. Every now and then I get a full day of playtime and I'm going to enjoy! Not become increasingly frustrated.

On the bad parent topic: This is the kind of crap that gives gaming a bad name. When I think of a typical gamer, I think: intelligent, likes puzzles, easily bored, likes to interact - not spectate, high level of imagination.

Unfortunately, the common view of the typical gamer is: obsessive, selfish, immature and irresponsible. These are qualities that I have, certainly, but I work to minimize them and the effects they have on my family and social life.

Do you take care of your chores before game time? Do it later? Play with your kids, then play FF - not the other way around? As gamers, I think we have a vested interest in setting the example of the Responsible Gamer. Certainly if you are raising kids!

In the future, a much higher percentage of the world's population will be gamers, right!? I have a dream, that one day people will not be judged by the manner in which they spend their hard-earned freetime, but rather judged by the content of their character. (Ha!)
#40 Jul 31 2010 at 5:11 AM Rating: Good
Sage
*
175 posts
Mikhalia wrote:
Papanurf wrote:
What's @#%^ed up about even having a disclaimer in place is that you don't get calls from your local supermarket/farmer reminding you that you should eat from time to @#%^ing time. It's your personal responsibility.

If you don't **** you can die, if you don't eat you can die - we're not just now figuring these things out...

It sucks that SE need to protect themselves - and from what? - Litigious Mother @#%^ers! - that's who.


The problem is that we live in a world where no one wants personal responsibility; whenever anything goes wrong, the first thing people do is look for someone to blame. Blame the video games for violent kids, blame the tobacco companies for cancer, blame the fast food chains for obesity... it's all about blaming someone else and making them give you money to make up for your lack of personal responsibility.

That's why you see so many disclaimers, they're there so that the companies can fight fire with fire. "You say our game caused him to neglect his work and -we're responsible? Well, here's our warning not to neglect your work right here. We did our part, we're not responsible."

It's not there because the company genuinely cares about the well being of their customers (I mean, I'm sure they care about their customers to a point obviously); it's there because they care about not getting sued by customers who have no self control and no desire to take the fall for the consequences of their own actions.


This reminds of of when an old lady spilled coffee on herself and sued McDonalds because it was too hot. Now they have a warning on each coffee cup. Guess what you retarded old lady, coffee is hot.

Except when its cold. Oh god I'm so confused! -.-

Edited, Jul 31st 2010 7:12am by Alkerr
____________________________


#41 Jul 31 2010 at 7:39 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
**
255 posts
I just hate being treated like a child.

Where I live, you can be fined for not wearing a crash helmet when riding a bicycle. Recent law changes made it possible to get fined for leaving your car unlocked.

At what point do you just leave stupid to do what stupid does? England's fattest woman died from a heart attack a couple of weeks ago. This fat-*** got her family to smuggle deep fried food into the hospital so she could continue to gorge herself... then had the gall (THE ******* GALL!) to complain that she didn't get any support from hospitals and government etc.

YOU GOT LEGS WOMAN - THERE'S YOUR SUPPORT!

A fatigue system takes the **** out of my ability to manage my play-time compared to the time I spend with my son. Let me select it.
____________________________
[img]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxiv/15834_3d32ad424a3db4b1.png[/img]
#42 Jul 31 2010 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
Papanurf wrote:
England's fattest woman died from a heart attack a couple of weeks ago. This fat-*** got her family to smuggle deep fried food into the hospital so she could continue to gorge herself... then had the gall (THE @#%^ING GALL!) to complain that she didn't get any support from hospitals and government etc.


I'd say that's surprising.... but it isn't. That's the problem; the government is trying to repeal Darwin's Law.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#43 Jul 31 2010 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
787 posts
Quote:
I'd say that's surprising.... but it isn't. That's the problem; the government is trying to repeal Darwin's Law.


The next thing they'll do is declare that gravity isn't ADA compliant.

Edited, Jul 31st 2010 12:55pm by rubina
#44 Jul 31 2010 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
Avatar
**
676 posts
Having a system like this would be silly for SE. It can only hurt them when it comes to a pay to play game. People pay to play their game and then they go and try to limit how long they can play it? It just wont jive with North Americans. I'm probably going to end up being a casual player and only be able to play on the weekends. It would be very hypocritical of SE if they implement a system like this. They say that they want to make a game that is geared towards casual AND hardcore gamers. If this was implemented, it would just alienate many casual players to a degree that I feel many would end up ending their subscriptions.
____________________________
#45 Jul 31 2010 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
rubina wrote:
Quote:
I'd say that's surprising.... but it isn't. That's the problem; the government is trying to repeal Darwin's Law.


The next thing they'll do is declare that gravity isn't ADA compliant.

Edited, Jul 31st 2010 12:55pm by rubina


And that Murphy's Law isn't equal opportunity.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#46 Jul 31 2010 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
770 posts
people just gotta get over the fact that the world dosnt revolve around them. and the people that are sueing over stupid **** , court systems need to get back to reality and throw thoes cases out for wasting taxpayers time and money.

Edited, Jul 31st 2010 2:29pm by Puppy1
____________________________
I do not suffer from insanity.. I rather enjoy it.

{retired} Devalynn Mithra WHM extrodinare -Garuda (gives everyone a high paw! yeah!)

Church OF Mikhalia
#47 Jul 31 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
****
9,526 posts
I wouldn't mind a fatigue system if it was built in over long periods - like if you had a certain number of hours a month before getting fatigued because the way I play is often in long bursts - I may actually have a game where I do leave the game on for 12 or more hours in a day say on Saturday (I may go afk for food and the like) - but then I don't really play at all for the rest of the week. Or I may have a week off and play a lot but then not play much for most of the week after that.

without allowing people to average out the hours across a longer time frame it penalizes people who just have busy lifestyles and can only play on certain days.

There will, in fact, be entire months were I will not be able to play at all (or only very little).

I don't want to lose the playtime I have because of an arbitrary system that assumes a certain play schedule.

#48 Jul 31 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
787 posts
Quote:
Aion only had the fatigue system on the Korean and Chinese servers, which correct me if I'm wrong is pretty much the norm in those country's. The way it worked was if you play for over 3 hours your Exp & drop rate gets reduced by 30% unless you log out for 3 hours. I sort of remember NCsoft accidently patching that in at one point to the NA/EU servers people where furious. My friend who plays 16 hours a day never seen him so mad lol, funny times.


Like that's going to stop max leveled player or gank squads from terrorizing zones. :(
#49 Jul 31 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Good
***
1,218 posts
Mikhalia wrote:
Papanurf wrote:
What's @#%^ed up about even having a disclaimer in place is that you don't get calls from your local supermarket/farmer reminding you that you should eat from time to @#%^ing time. It's your personal responsibility.

If you don't **** you can die, if you don't eat you can die - we're not just now figuring these things out...

It sucks that SE need to protect themselves - and from what? - Litigious Mother @#%^ers! - that's who.


The problem is that we live in a world where no one wants personal responsibility; whenever anything goes wrong, the first thing people do is look for someone to blame. Blame the video games for violent kids, blame the tobacco companies for cancer, blame the fast food chains for obesity... it's all about blaming someone else and making them give you money to make up for your lack of personal responsibility.


The flip side of this is that we live in a world where every one will happily lie to you about the risks of what they're selling you up until the day you die from it, just to make an extra buck. To be honest, I *DO* blame fast food companies (and frito lay, and pepsi, and most other "snack food" manufacturers) for promoting the lie that you can eat that stuff all the time and be perfectly healthy. I blame them for loading their food with extra salt, grease, and sugar and pushing Super Sized "value" meals that contain more calories than the average person will burn in a day.

Corporations are not stupid, they just have a very warped sense of priorities because they exist for the sole purpose of making money. Whereas you might be able to count on a co worker or a neighbor to be fair and honest with you just because of empathy between human beings, a corporation will lie and exploit people all day long as long as that's what leads to the best bottom line. A lot of people say that this behavior is "evil" but it's like a shark eating a seal-- the shark isn't doing it out of spite, that's just how he knows to thrive. Corporations don't usually exploit people because the CEO just likes to make people suffer, they do it because that's what allows them to thrive. Chances are, the CEO was chosen because he fits the needs of the company and not vice versa.

The costs of irresponsible behavior that spill over onto other people are never taken into account by a well run corporation except to the extent that those costs could spill back over onto THEM and change the bottom line. Lawsuits or the threat of lawsuits help to keep corporations honest and responsible in a way that thousands of angry rants on the internet could never achieve. It's just simple economics and business sense. It's why we have to create laws with stiff penalties for pollution or financial malfeasance, and why, when those laws are not strictly enforced, we get BP or Enron.

What you have to realize about "fatigue" systems is that there are people who cannot properly evaluate how much time they should be spending playing an MMO. An MMO maker cannot fix the mental or emotional problems of its users, but it can choose not to exploit them for further profit. Fatigue systems, disclaimers, etc are an effort to at least remind people that they could be doing some thing else with their time, rather than allow them to exist in ignorant bliss. What people choose to do with that information is their choice, but I'd rather see MMO makers try than for them to exist in the world of McDonald's, where they try to tell people that a 600 calorie, high fat, high salt sandwich is some how healthy.


Edited, Jul 31st 2010 5:10pm by KarlHungis
#50 Jul 31 2010 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
KarlHungis wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:
Papanurf wrote:
What's @#%^ed up about even having a disclaimer in place is that you don't get calls from your local supermarket/farmer reminding you that you should eat from time to @#%^ing time. It's your personal responsibility.

If you don't **** you can die, if you don't eat you can die - we're not just now figuring these things out...

It sucks that SE need to protect themselves - and from what? - Litigious Mother @#%^ers! - that's who.


The problem is that we live in a world where no one wants personal responsibility; whenever anything goes wrong, the first thing people do is look for someone to blame. Blame the video games for violent kids, blame the tobacco companies for cancer, blame the fast food chains for obesity... it's all about blaming someone else and making them give you money to make up for your lack of personal responsibility.


The flip side of this is that we live in a world where every one will happily lie to you about the risks of what they're selling you up until the day you die from it, just to make an extra buck. To be honest, I *DO* blame fast food companies (and frito lay, and pepsi, and most other "snack food" manufacturers) for promoting the lie that you can eat that stuff all the time and be perfectly healthy. I blame them for loading their food with extra salt, grease, and sugar and pushing Super Sized "value" meals that contain more calories than the average person will burn in a day.

Corporations are not stupid, they just have a very warped sense of priorities because they exist for the sole purpose of making money. Whereas you might be able to count on a co worker or a neighbor to be fair and honest with you just because of empathy between human beings, a corporation will lie and exploit people all day long as long as that's what leads to the best bottom line. A lot of people say that this behavior is "evil" but it's like a shark eating a seal-- the shark isn't doing it out of spite, that's just how he knows to thrive. Corporations don't usually exploit people because the CEO just likes to make people suffer, they do it because that's what allows them to thrive. Chances are, the CEO was chosen because he fits the needs of the company and not vice versa.

The costs of irresponsible behavior that spill over onto other people are never taken into account by a well run corporation except to the extent that those costs could spill back over onto THEM and change the bottom line. Lawsuits or the threat of lawsuits help to keep corporations honest and responsible in a way that thousands of angry rants on the internet could never achieve. It's just simple economics and business sense. It's why we have to create laws with stiff penalties for pollution or financial malfeasance, and why, when those laws are not strictly enforced, we get BP or Enron.

What you have to realize about "fatigue" systems is that there are people who cannot properly evaluate how much time they should be spending playing an MMO. An MMO maker cannot fix the mental or emotional problems of its users, but it can choose not to exploit them for further profit. Fatigue systems, disclaimers, etc are an effort to at least remind people that they could be doing some thing else with their time, rather than allow them to exist in ignorant bliss. What people choose to do with that information is their choice, but I'd rather see MMO makers try than for them to exist in the world of McDonald's, where they try to tell people that a 600 calorie, high fat, high salt sandwich is some how healthy.


Edited, Jul 31st 2010 5:10pm by KarlHungis


The problem is that there's no sense of moderation. If I eat three big macs a day and I notice that I've gone from 150 to 180 and I keep eating big macs and get to 210 and I keep eating them and get to 250... at what point is the company no longer responsible for the fact that I haven't stopped and said "Hey, I wonder why I'm a big, fat, fatty. Maybe I should evaluate my diet and figure out what the **** I'm doing wrong."

I don't disagree that laws need to be in place to keep companies in line, but at the same time, those laws need to protect the companies from harming their consumers; there don't need to be laws to protect consumers from harming themselves via a company's product. If I buy a gun, stick it in my mouth, and pull the trigger, the gun maker should net be at fault because the gun didn't have a big orange and yellow "DO NOT INSERT INTO MOUTH AND PULL TRIGGER" label.

The problem with fatigue systems is that they punish players who -can- control their playing time in the name of "helping" those who can't. There are a lot of lightweights who get buzzed after two alcoholic beverages. Now there ARE laws that say that a bartender can refuse to serve you alcohol if they feel you're too drunk; this is GOOD, but it's another thing to limit ALL bar patrons to two drinks, because it adversely affects too many people.

And the people that -really- wanna get ****** up will just go find another bar and get two more drinks. If we assume someone is "addicted to gaming" and an MMOG limits them to 8 hours a day and they keep playing, what's stopping them from having two characters and changing character? Or two accounts and changing to a new account when they want to keep playing? Or even playing a second MMORPG when they run out of time on the first? Now you're going to start hurting legit players where two players share a house (and an IP) by limiting the IP's maximum playtime?

You can't tell your 2 year old, your 6 year old, your 12 year old, and your 16 year old that NONE of them can have soda because the 2 year old bounces off the walls when he does. People are different and some have more problems than others. These problems need to be addressed as they arise, not pre-emptively by punishing -everyone-.

I don't disagree that there -should- be laws to minimize the damage a company's product can do; don't wash your counters with bleach and then make big macs on them, don't let nurses who work around patients on oxygen smoke near them... there do need to be quality control measures in place that protect the customer from the product's inherent danger... but you can't just pass blanket laws to protect EVERYONE from themselves overusing a product because all these laws do is make people who CAN control themselves become inconvenienced.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#51 Jul 31 2010 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
255 posts
Sadly, despite whether or not there is a fatigue system in FFXIV I'll still be playing it like a fiend.
____________________________
[img]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxiv/15834_3d32ad424a3db4b1.png[/img]
« Previous 1 2
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 22 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (22)