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The 'Healer'Follow

#1 Jul 31 2010 at 1:02 AM Rating: Good
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First thing I would just like to say I've been looking over these forums the last few days, for FFXIV Information and computer specs etc, and I think it's fantastic. I've learnt more here than any other site put together.

However, I'm still curious about the armour system. I'm aware a player can switch weapon, and effectivly become another class. In most games I tend to be the healer class, but I can't quite distinguish what the main healing class is (If any?) in this game, it seems most classes can semi heal themselfs anyway. So that's my question, is there an armoury class based more around the support or healing role? If so, which one of the two casters is it?

Probably a silly question to most of you, I apologize if it's already been asked. I appreciate any replies to my questions!
#2 Jul 31 2010 at 1:07 AM Rating: Excellent
No, you weren't missing anything. There is no "healer class". Not like WHM at least. Both Disciple of Magic classes can heal. But then both attack, as well.
#3 Jul 31 2010 at 1:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the quick reply Osarion.

I'll alter the question slightly in that case. Because both classes can heal, are both the Conjurer and the Thaumaturge's similar, or does one in particular stand out?

Also what's a WHM? Is it FFXI Related? This is my first FF MMO sadly
#4 Jul 31 2010 at 1:29 AM Rating: Good
Oh, lol. Yes, WHM = White Mage, a healer job in FFXI.

As far as which jobs do what kinds of heals... I'm not sure that's been officially released by SE yet, so I'm not sure I can say due to NDA.
#5 Jul 31 2010 at 1:30 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah WHM is white mage, your standard healer class through most final fantasy games since the original. Opposite being a black mage which is more attack oriented. I guess conjurer stands out more as the potential healer since Cure & Protect are listed as 2 of its spells on the game site.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/#/gameplay/armourysystem/magic/conjurer/spells

It also has some attack spells though so it's not your traditional healer-only kind of class. Seems closer to white mage while thaumaturge seems closer to black mage.

Edited, Jul 31st 2010 3:32am by TwistedOwl
#6 Jul 31 2010 at 1:33 AM Rating: Good
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WHM is an acronym used in FFXI for White Mage, the primary healing job. There has been some speculation that SE purposely spread all of the "primary" MMO roles out among the disciplines. One of the primary attributes of the Armoury system is the ability to take abilities you have learned on one class, and apply them to other classes. In this way, it may be possible to "construct" your perfect healing role out of an amalgam of Thaumaturge and Conjurer.
#7 Jul 31 2010 at 1:53 AM Rating: Decent
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As Hulan said, SE seems to have spread most of the basic roles out among disciplines, but they still seem to have some level of specialization. The Conjurer seems to have gotten the spells from both the White Mage (Healer) and the Black Mage (Elementalist). If you wanted a straight forward party healer, you'd probably go with a Conjurer and focus on their healing abilities.

The Thaumaturge seems to focus mainly on enfeeblements, blood magic, and status effects. Taking on the magical abilities of both the Red Mage and Dark Knight, but without their melee abilities. Well, that's at least my understanding from what I've seen and heard so far. They actually seem to remind me of the Shamans from the old school MUDs.
#8 Jul 31 2010 at 5:23 AM Rating: Good
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Alchemist = new WHM
they can toss potions and hi potions to party memebers

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NO, i was just joking :D
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#9 Jul 31 2010 at 5:56 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks again for the replys, they're making a lot of sense.

Another question now, hope you don't mind, it's just something I'm unsure about. Hulan, you said you can construct your own personal perferences out of the two classes, or to that degree. I'm just slightly curious how this system works. Is it yet known if you can switch between a class during a fight? After a fight? Or something which has longer side effects, such as speaking to an npc before you can switch? Or even better although I doubt it, can you mix skills from each classes without needing to equip that armoury weapon?

Looking back, that doesn't make the best sense ever, but hopefully someone will kind of get what I mean. If answering is breaking an NDA, don't bother of course!
#10 Jul 31 2010 at 6:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Thanks again for the replys, they're making a lot of sense.

Another question now, hope you don't mind, it's just something I'm unsure about. Hulan, you said you can construct your own personal perferences out of the two classes, or to that degree. I'm just slightly curious how this system works. Is it yet known if you can switch between a class during a fight? After a fight? Or something which has longer side effects, such as speaking to an npc before you can switch? Or even better although I doubt it, can you mix skills from each classes without needing to equip that armoury weapon?

Looking back, that doesn't make the best sense ever, but hopefully someone will kind of get what I mean. If answering is breaking an NDA, don't bother of course!


The official info given is classes cant be changed in combat and yes you can merge skills with other classes.

Maybe you could try THIS link, it has alot of useful info and apparently isnt NDA breaking.

Edited, Jul 31st 2010 8:12am by warby
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#11 Jul 31 2010 at 6:30 AM Rating: Decent
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That covers pretty much everything I need to know, thanks a lot for the link Warby.
#12 Jul 31 2010 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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The new mage classes should prove to be interesting. They both look very flexible. I recall a WTF moment back in Dunes with my WHM. I got booted from a team because the leader's girlfriend's RDM wasn't getting enough healing time in to raise her skills. At least with the new system, there seems to be some neat ranges of magic types.
#13 Jul 31 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
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It looks to me like the Thaumaturge could main heal by using Sacrifice to send his HP to allies, and Drain to steal HP from the enemies and heal himself. Obviously I don't know if that would really work, for all I know Sacrifice and Drain have a long cooldown or high MP cost that makes them less worthwhile than plain old Cure. It would be cool, though, if there was an offensive as well as defensive healer type, bringing different advantages to a party.
#14 Aug 02 2010 at 12:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Wait so I'm confused and some probably rather dumb questions.

If you level a job, say DoW and you get pretty high level, but then decide you want to go level a DoM, you will be level 1 right (I'm confused because of the whole "physical thing")? I read somewhere (can't remember where sorry) that you'd be able to reset your skills you'd chosen in case of situations like this. And, if you can reset your skills (like strength, dexterity, mind etc) wouldn't it be a pain to switch your skills each time you switched between two different classes, like a high level DoW to a high level DoM? How will this work??

And also, talking about healers, if you choose a DoM class I've read people saying you can just focus on the healing aspects if that's what you want to do. Is that implying that you'll be able to choose branching paths in that job (since no specific job seems to be purely healer)? Kind of like in WoW where you're a certain job and as you level you get to choose between branching paths? Or is it more where you'd just be using the healing abilities and ignoring the other magic abilities you have? This is very curious to me because I didn't like enfeebling and stuff, and you always get in parties as a mage of any type where someone demands you play the mage a certain specific way.
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#15 Aug 02 2010 at 12:43 AM Rating: Good
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PinkMermaid wrote:
Wait so I'm confused and some probably rather dumb questions.

If you level a job, say DoW and you get pretty high level, but then decide you want to go level a DoM, you will be level 1 right (I'm confused because of the whole "physical thing")? I read somewhere (can't remember where sorry) that you'd be able to reset your skills you'd chosen in case of situations like this. And, if you can reset your skills (like strength, dexterity, mind etc) wouldn't it be a pain to switch your skills each time you switched between two different classes, like a high level DoW to a high level DoM? How will this work??



You have a physical level which is the same regardless of your current class, and that determines your HP and MP, as well as providing stat points and resists that you can allocate.

Then you also have a class specific level (or "skill" if you prefer). That determines which abilities are available to you, both from your current class and skills that you can equip from secondary skills.

To switch between classes you can just swap weapons and voila you are a new class.

To change stats and resists, there is a "re allocate" button that you can just press whenever you want to get all of your stats refunded. Then, you just click on the new stats to allocate. As long as you have a general idea how you want to allocate your stats it shouldn't take more than a minute to do. Obviously the higher your physical level the longer it will take, but we're talking about clicking a button, not filling out a survey, so it shouldn't take longer than, for example, creating a basic macro in FFXI takes.

Quote:

And also, talking about healers, if you choose a DoM class I've read people saying you can just focus on the healing aspects if that's what you want to do. Is that implying that you'll be able to choose branching paths in that job (since no specific job seems to be purely healer)? Kind of like in WoW where you're a certain job and as you level you get to choose between branching paths? Or is it more where you'd just be using the healing abilities and ignoring the other magic abilities you have? This is very curious to me because I didn't like enfeebling and stuff, and you always get in parties as a mage of any type where someone demands you play the mage a certain specific way.


From what I understand, you unlock all abilities of your class as you level it. However, you can only have a limited number of abilities enabled at any time, so while you might have 50 different abilities at level 50, you might only be able to equip 20 of them. The more classes you've levelled up, the more abilities you'll have that are going unused.

As far as healing goes, it looks like you can choose to have a dedicated healer if you want (and if you're fighting really tough mobs in a group you probably will want to) but there are a ton of ways to get healing, including being in the non combat stance (slow HP regen), using self healing abilities that most classes possess, using battle regiments (similar to weapon skills in FFXI but with many more possible effects than just damage),consumables such as potions, or having every one in the group enable at least one healing spell that they can toss around as needed. The game is meant to be playable solo, duo, trio all the way up to 18 people in a group, so there's an enormous amount of flexibility. How you handle healing in a group will probably depend a lot on what you're doing and what size group you have, but there are a lot of options that we know about already and probably some that we don't.
#16 Aug 02 2010 at 12:54 AM Rating: Decent
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That pretty much cleared it up for me Karl thanks. I don't think i'm overly fond of the physical level thing, but oh well. So if I'm a level 50 DoW and I change to a DoM I'd still be able to fight in the same higher level areas right since I still have the same HP/MP? Except my skill with that weapon (similiar to needing a skill up party in xi) and my abililties would be lacking for the new weapon. Although I'd still be able to use higher level skills from my DoW considering my phsical level is still 50 right?? I guess I'm still confused lol.
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#17 Aug 02 2010 at 1:16 AM Rating: Good
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PinkMermaid wrote:
That pretty much cleared it up for me Karl thanks. I don't think i'm overly fond of the physical level thing, but oh well. So if I'm a level 50 DoW and I change to a DoM I'd still be able to fight in the same higher level areas right since I still have the same HP/MP? Except my skill with that weapon (similiar to needing a skill up party in xi) and my abililties would be lacking for the new weapon. Although I'd still be able to use higher level skills from my DoW considering my phsical level is still 50 right?? I guess I'm still confused lol.


No, you'd probably get creamed in the higher level area because you wouldn't have the deep repertoire of abilities you need to succeed, nor the higher level version of abilities, nor the ability to wear higher level gear. However, when you took your level 1 DoM class to the newbie area, you'd hit a lot harder and have a lot more HP and MP than a true newbie. You'd get from 1 to 10 a lot more easily the second time through than you did the first time. Sort of like the way that in FFXI, once you unlocked your sub job, leveling up successive jobs became so much easier and more effective.
#18 Aug 02 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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But if you're physical level is still a high level, then wouldn't fighting the low level monsters not gain you any experience, but only weapon "skills" or points... or whatever? Like a skill up party in xi right?
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#19 Aug 02 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I also want to know if we do a class change how does it work?
I mean as a Conjurer if I want to learn some skills from DoW, how does I learn it?

If I fight mobs, can I use my wand with DoW skills or I have to equip a weapon from DoW?
#20 Aug 02 2010 at 3:22 PM Rating: Decent
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PinkMermaid wrote:
But if you're physical level is still a high level, then wouldn't fighting the low level monsters not gain you any experience, but only weapon "skills" or points... or whatever? Like a skill up party in xi right?


As far as I understood, this is how it works:

Say you have a level 50 Gladiator and your physical level is level 50 as well. Then let's say starting at physical level 1, every time you level up (physical level), you'll earn 1 point that you can put in your stats, so at level 50, you'll have 50 stats point. When you change to a level 1 Lancer, even tho you have 50 free points to allocate, but since your Lancer level is 1, you only get to allocate 1 point in your stats. However, your advantage is that since you have a level 50 Gladiator, you'd learn let's say 20 Gladiator abilities. So when you change to a level 1 Lancer, if level 1 Lancer only starts with 1 ability, then if you have enough AP (Action Point), then you can equip your Gladiator abilities in your action bar. So when a new player started a level 1 Lancer, he only has 1 skill to play with, but when you start a Lancer, you may already have 2 or 3 skills to play with.

As for the AP, I'd read it somewhere that said some abilities may cost 0 AP to equip, while others cost more. However, when you equip a Gladiator ability on a Gladiator, it maybe free, but when you try to equip the same ability on a Lancer, it may cost you 2 AP.

As for the effectiveness of the same ability on different classes, if you equip a Gladiator ability on a Lancer, the effect would pretty much the same since they're in the same Disciple (DoW), however, if you equip a Gladiator ability on a Conjurer, the effect would be much lesser since they're in different Disciple.
#21 Aug 02 2010 at 3:49 PM Rating: Good
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PinkMermaid wrote:
But if you're physical level is still a high level, then wouldn't fighting the low level monsters not gain you any experience, but only weapon "skills" or points... or whatever? Like a skill up party in xi right?


Maybe, maybe not. We don't know how XP is going to scale by level difference. It could just be a case where that high physical level means you need a million XP to gain another physical level and that low level mob only gives 100 or something. Whether or not you actually get more physical levels though doesn't really matter though, because you're not going to be fighting low level mobs to raise your physical level, but your class level. So if you're physical level 50 and pugilist level 1, you're going to be more concerned about getting PUG to level 10 or whatever than whether or not your physical level goes up.

In generally, the way I understand it is: It's harder to raise physical level than class level, but since most people will be leveling MANY classes, your physical level will generally be higher than your class level most of the time. If you only ever levelled as a pugilist then you might be physical level 40 and PUG 50, but if you leveled pugilist, lancer, and gladiator, then you might be GLA 40, PUG 40, LNC 40 and physical level 50. I'm just throwing numbers around for the sake of demonstration, I have no idea what the exact ratios would be.

The bottom line is you're not really going to worry about your physical level too much, that will just go up on its own. You'll focus more on your class levels to make sure you have the right abilities unlocked.
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