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So... Where are the male Miqo'te?Follow

#1 Aug 01 2010 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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First off, my apologies if you deem this offensive in any way. It's just an issue I wanted to address and rant about.

Information regarding male Miqo'te:

Eorzeapedia: There is a growing group in the community who would like to see the implementation of Male Miqo’te and Female Roegadyn in FINAL FANTASY XIV. Are there plans to make these yet to be seen gender and race combination playable? If not, what made you decide not to work them into FINAL FANTASY XIV.

Tanaka: Actually all of the design is ready, so we were planning to implement them into the game, however during the development process we had to put priority with what to put into the game, and due to the man power issue we had to give up implementing them into the beginning of the game. You will see them as an NPC, but it is not a race that you can choose at the beginning. We’ll see how it goes in the future, it might be a possiblity. We are still looking into it.


Putting it aggressively, the absence of male Miqo'te as a playable race is a flagrant insult to [a percentage of] those wanting to play as male characters. I get it: Tons of people -- guys and girls alike -- play as female characters, and so the idea of a female-only cat-human hybrid suits their agenda to a tee. But what about those who play male characters and don't want to be stuck with the generic human, emo elf, or ridiculously-sized male-only stereotypical Incredible Hulk?

To be honest, I'm sick and tired of having to play a hulking man if I want to follow my own r/l gender; so you can imagine my first-glance enthusiasm at finding that there would be an inclusion of lithe, cat-like creatures that are both realistically-sized and unique enough that they're not a member of the bland **** sapiens. But after some more searching, it became evident to me that the Miqo'te race was going to host fanservice females only while the male's gender-only racial representation would be -- wouldn't you know it? -- a giant brute of a creature, the ginormous "sea wolf pirate beast men" known as the Roegadyn. I wasn't exactly crushed by the news, but rather PO'd and disappointed that SE didn't have the "man power" to implement male Miqo'tes as playable but instead opted to make them NPC-only.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make a HUGE deal of this -- it's not like this is going to stop me from playing -- it's just a disappointing fact that could've been amended instead of left out as in XI (aren't we trying to innovate -- why leave the races essentially the same?). While it leaves me far less satisfied than I -- and maybe some others who are tired of the same -- hoped to have been, I guess I'll just have to cave in and maybe...make a Lalafell...or try to make a guy Miqo'te by sizing the chest as flat as possible. But then there's the matter of having to wear the panties...as well as all the other female attire that comes with it. Oh, joy, a sexually-confused male Miqo'te with an unnatural growth hormone affecting his chest. D: That'll go down real well in RP.

Anyway, rambling aside, here's hoping XIV does great and SE decides to answer the tiny(?) pleas of players wanting a male version of Miqo'te by implementing them in a future expansion. It's time to break tradition and be creative, and that means making Fire Emblem's Ranulf your male Miqo'te mascot! (:P)

Thanks for reading / skimming. Anybody else a part of the minority here?
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#2 Aug 01 2010 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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o_o More people want Male Miqo'te than you think.

EDIT: They'll come eventually. It's just too bad I'll have already leveled a character by the time they are actually added to the list.

Edited, Aug 1st 2010 12:35pm by MokiSunscar
#3 Aug 01 2010 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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Then you play as a Hyur which has male or female (and aren't hulking aside the Highlanders). Adding genders to races aren't innovations, don't blur it because that makes it a bigger issue than it truly is.

They've been pretty creative with FFXIV so far, just because it lacks male cat people doesn't mean they aren't creative. I'm obviously not in the minority that wants it (because I know if what I want isn't in the game I can just as easily choose something else) but as you said it's not that big of a deal. Elezen males are just as feminine as male cats would be minus the ears and tails..but maybe I just don't see the appeal of being a cat person or liking the whole catgirl/boy thing.

If this is an RP issue, you can't RP YOUR way in a game designed the way the designers decided. You can only RP with the ruleset laid before you. It's like saying you want to RP as a Lamia in a game that has no Lamiae as a race then get upset.

I don't mind people wanting to RP and etc..but the RP folks have been forgetting the general rule: If you try to RP in a game you yourself didn't create you have to RP within the world's design. So if you're so adamant about being a cat boy that you're gonna try your hardest to pass off a female as a male..you a lot better off changing your RP story.

Edited, Aug 1st 2010 11:31am by Theonehio
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#4 Aug 01 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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The only thing I'm really hoping at this point, regarding race/gender, is if they ever do add an additional option or two, to allow people to transfer to it. Even a few months after starting, I'm not going to want to delete and start over.. If months turns to years, there's no chance whatsoever.
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#5 Aug 01 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
o_o More people want Male Miqo'te than you think.


Really? That's good to hear, but if there was such a demand for them, wouldn't SE have truly made an effort to bring them in?

Quote:
Then you play as a Hyur which has male or female (and aren't hulking aside the Highlanders). Adding genders to races aren't innovations, don't blur it because that makes it a bigger issue than it truly is.


Somewhere in that wall of text I stated that I didn't want to play a generic Human-race, which is what I assume the Hyur basically are. And I'm not saying that adding a gender would be an innovation to MMO in general, I'm saying it would be an innovation in the Onine FF world where "the cat race" has traditionally been female-only. The point is that it would be a new and welcome feature for FF's onine franchise, not an innovation in MMOs as a whole.

Quote:
They've been pretty creative with FFXIV so far, just because it lacks male cat people doesn't mean they aren't creative. I'm obviously not in the minority that wants it (because I know if what I want isn't in the game I can just as easily choose something else) but as you said it's not that big of a deal. Elezen males are just as feminine as male cats would be minus the ears and tails..but maybe I just don't see the appeal of being a cat person or liking the whole catgirl/boy thing.


...Again, you sort of missed my point. :v I'm not saying that FFXIV as a whole is completely uncreative because of the absence of playable male Miqo'te, I'm saying it's uncreative in the racial category; every race is basically an upgrade of those in XI and they haven't even bothered to make male counterparts of the new cat race (same goes for female Roegadyn, but my argument doesn't concern them). I never said I wanted to be a feminine race, either, which is exactly my point: I don't want to be restricted to a FEMALE-only race. Who said male cat-human hybrids had to be feminine? Do thin, agile, wild half-man half-feline beasts correlate solely with feminism? Does "manliness" only concern itself with the features of muscular men such as the Roegadyn? I wouldn't think so.

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If this is an RP issue, you can't RP YOUR way in a game designed the way the designers decided. You can only RP with the ruleset laid before you. It's like saying you want to RP as a Lamia in a game that has no Lamiae as a race then get upset.

I don't mind people wanting to RP and etc..but the RP folks have been forgetting the general rule: If you try to RP in a game you yourself didn't create you have to RP within the world's design. So if you're so adamant about being a cat boy that you're gonna try your hardest to pass off a female as a male..you a lot better off changing your RP story.


It could be looked at as an RP issue, but honestly, I was just using that as an example. My reasons for wanting a male Miqo'te are certainly not wholly RP-based -- it's just simply the type of race I would love to have represent me in this game, just as another would want to level and battle with a generic human or tiny child. It's the race I believe I'd find most interesting and enjoyable to experience the game with, and so to add them as an NPC while neglecting them as a playable race is just irritating, whether I plan on RPing with one or not.
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#6 Aug 01 2010 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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To make a stronger argument, I suggest you avoid words like "innovation" and "creativity." If you don't, you risk putting your foot in your mouth.

In my opinion, the "innovation" is there. The Miqo'te and the Roegadyn races do not strictly follow the bipedal-humanoid-dexeterous-twoeyes-onemouth-nose paradigm that most other fantasy races follow. They are a single ***; not two sexes. Humans are two sexes, and it's easy to see that the XIV races—and races from hundreds of fantasy games—are based off the model that the human sets. So if you talk about "innovation" it can be used against you.

Similarly, when you discuss "creativity" you're merely trying to make an argument that your creative interpretations are superior to SE's. You say:

Quote:
But what about those who play male characters and don't want to be stuck with the generic human, emo elf, or ridiculously-sized male-only stereotypical Incredible Hulk?

... in an effort to belittle what SE has already designed. Who is to say that those "lithe" cat people you so fondly mention are not the redundant cat-humanoids that how many other fantasy genres have used?

What's creative—to me—is seeing male-*** humans play the female Miqo'te, and the types of decisions they make to be happy with those selections. That's creativity because it serves as a breeding ground for discussion among players as to why some men said "I'm going to be a female character—and it doesn't matter."

Avatars are not meant to BE you. They are meant to represent you. Skin color, sexuality, age, ability, class status, and ideology are already absent from XIV. Why can't gender be as well?

And lastly, if you're still deadset on asking for a male Miqo'te I suggest you make the argument for female Roegardyn. I think it's a bit pompous to assume that there aren't non-"lithe" women out there who'd enjoy the hulking figure the Roegadyn provides.

Edited, Aug 1st 2010 3:01pm by Nonagon
#7 Aug 01 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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#8 Aug 01 2010 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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This isn't the last time either. :\

Edited, Aug 1st 2010 1:07pm by MokiSunscar
#9 Aug 01 2010 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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I want to play as a Mamool, why can't I?
I want to play as a Yagudo, why can't I?
I want to bring up a years old debate over why SE won't add this when a decent sized group of people want feature A vs how feature B was implemented.
I don't want to hear the feature is "Working as intended"
I want a golden goose.
#10 Aug 01 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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Nonagon wrote:
And lastly, if you're still deadset on asking for a male Miqo'te I suggest you make the argument for female Roegardyn. I think it's a bit pompous to assume that there aren't non-"lithe" women out there who'd enjoy the hulking figure the Roegadyn provides.


This, or female Highlanders (also male only).

You could always play Lalafell, too. They aren't "oversized" and they aren't a "generic human" or an "emo elf". If you -really- want to play a cat race, what's the big deal about playing a female instead of a male?

Also, @Nonagon: Grats, I just gave you scholar ^^

Edited, Aug 1st 2010 3:14pm by Mikhalia
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#11 Aug 01 2010 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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Outside of one storyline-based NPC, SE hasn't added a male Mithra to FFXI yet. I don't think we're going to see male Miqo'te, female Roegadyn, or possibly even female Highlanders.

Frankly, this doesn't bother me, since I'm going to be a male Reogadyn anyway. Pretty much just a recreation of my Galka from FFXI, although I'm thinking about making him with green skin and yellow hair. I can't help it, being a Packers fan and all that.
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#12 Aug 01 2010 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia wrote:
Nonagon wrote:
And lastly, if you're still deadset on asking for a male Miqo'te I suggest you make the argument for female Roegardyn. I think it's a bit pompous to assume that there aren't non-"lithe" women out there who'd enjoy the hulking figure the Roegadyn provides.


This, or female Highlanders (also male only).

You could always play Lalafell, too. They aren't "oversized" and they aren't a "generic human" or an "emo elf"

Also, @Nonagon: Grats, I just gave you scholar ^^


I saw! Thank you!

I had no idea about the Highlanders! This is what happens when you just skim the website >.>
#13 Aug 01 2010 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
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To make a stronger argument, I suggest you avoid words like "innovation" and "creativity." If you don't, you risk putting your foot in your mouth.

In my opinion, the "innovation" is there. The Miqo'te and the Roegadyn races do not strictly follow the bipedal-humanoid-dexeterous-twoeyes-onemouth-nose paradigm that most other fantasy races follow. They are a single ***; not two sexes. Humans are two sexes, and it's easy to see that the XIV races—and races from hundreds of fantasy games—are based off the model that the human sets. So if you talk about "innovation" it can be used against you.


I don't see the problem with using those words. According to the dictionary, innovate means to introduce something new; make changes in anything established. And what exactly I was referring to was Final Fantasy Online's features in terms of Racial Selection, not MMOs as a whole. With XI, they had 2 single-*** races; and so, with a sequel, one might expect them to "make a change" by at least adding male Miqo'te (and female Roegadyn, but that's not what I'm defending). Also, miqo'te are not exactly a single-*** race; as was mentioned in that interview, males exist, they're just NPC-only.

Quote:
Similarly, when you discuss "creativity" you're merely trying to make an argument that your creative interpretations are superior to SE's. You say:

... in an effort to belittle what SE has already designed. Who is to say that those "lithe" cat people you so fondly mention are not the redundant cat-humanoids that how many other fantasy genres have used?


Hmm. Perhaps that's because I'm somewhat ignorant on the subject of fantasy genres; the only types I've played have featured the generally muscular-built style of male humans, elves, dwarves, and the like. I've only played one other game with a cat-humanoid race, Fire Emblem's laguz, so maybe I just have to look around more. Either way, you're right in that I'm trying to make a valid argument that male miqo'te should be implemented into the game as a playable race.

Quote:
What's creative—to me—is seeing male-*** humans play the female Miqo'te, and the types of decisions they make to be happy with those selections. That's creativity because it serves as a breeding ground for discussion among players as to why some men said "I'm going to be a female character—and it doesn't matter."


I'd still prefer just simply having the option of a male Miqo'te, but I get your point.

Quote:
Avatars are not meant to BE you. They are meant to represent you. Skin color, sexuality, age, ability, class status, and ideology are already absent from XIV. Why can't gender be as well?


I already stated that I want my character to represent -- not be -- me, but is it so wrong to want a male to represent me? Is it really asking so much? D:

Quote:
And lastly, if you're still deadset on asking for a male Miqo'te I suggest you make the argument for female Roegardyn. I think it's a bit pompous to assume that there aren't non-"lithe" women out there who'd enjoy the hulking figure the Roegadyn provides.


As much as I might be inclined to agree (on retrospect, I can see that being a very fair possibility), that's simply not my argument here. I apologize if it offends anyone; I just want to keep it on the subject I'm concerned with: male miqo'te. If someone makes a thread arguing the validity of including female Roegadyn, I will likely support it.
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#14 Aug 01 2010 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm. Perhaps that's because I'm somewhat ignorant on the subject of fantasy genres; the only types I've played have featured the generally muscular-built style of male humans, elves, dwarves, and the like. I've only played one other game with a cat-humanoid race, Fire Emblem's laguz, so maybe I just have to look around more. Either way, you're right in that I'm trying to make a valid argument that male miqo'te should be implemented into the game as a playable race.


Elder Scrolls games (Morrowind, Oblivion) had Khajit (cat-like humanoids) and Argonian (lizard-like humanoids).

Edited, Aug 1st 2010 3:36pm by Mikhalia
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#15 Aug 01 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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w34v3r wrote:

I already stated that I want my character to represent -- not be -- me, but is it so wrong to want a male to represent me? Is it really asking so much? D:


When it comes to the aesthetic: people don't always get what they want. I would hope that you see this in real life.

We aren't debating the functional aspects of Final Fantasy, we're debating the purely aesthetic. Remember that you are indulging in Square Enix's vision of Eorezea and not your own. There comes a point when you have to settle with what you have and learn to love it. Just like in real life.
#16 Aug 01 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
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#17 Aug 01 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh dear God...
#18 Aug 01 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh dear God...


Didn't load for me, but I can guess what it was based on the name.
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#19 Aug 01 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah I would kind of like it if they added male miqo'tes... I'm going to play one anyways, because I think that whole cat people thing that japan always seems to have in their games is adorable. :P

If they do add them later on in the games lifespan, it will be weird... I don't care enough about aesthetics to completely abandon a character over it, and I'm doubting they will add a *** change npc... lol...

Oh wells, I don't really mind using a female character... Most people don't take it too seriously anyway. I care more about the actual gameplay, so if it really does require significant man hours to add them, I'm fine with them spending that time putting a bit of last minute polish on the game instead.

And btw, I definitely know what you mean about the whole oversized typical male characters... Save for FFXI and it's mithra, I've always picked a male character in games... But when I tried WoW, I noticed that all the male characters looked like they were roid raging lol... So I actually picked a female just to avoid the way over the top bulging muscle look. At least the males in the FF games actually look like somewhat normal people. I understand the look they were going for with it, and being strong and masculine is fine and all.. But after a certain point, when they start looking like those freaky super body builder guys, it kind of grosses me out... That's just me though. >.>

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#20 Aug 01 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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Tiger228 wrote:


And btw, I definitely know what you mean about the whole oversized typical male characters... Save for FFXI and it's mithra, I've always picked a male character in games... But when I tried WoW, I noticed that all the male characters looked like they were roid raging lol... So I actually picked a female just to avoid the way over the top bulging muscle look. At least the males in the FF games actually look like somewhat normal people. I understand the look they were going for with it, and being strong and masculine is fine and all.. But after a certain point, when they start looking like those freaky super body builder guys, it kind of grosses me out... That's just me though. >.>



I'm picking a Highlander so I can finally look my Elvaan/Future Elzen friend in the eyes now when he does naughty /em's. NO LONGER THE VICTIM.
#21 Aug 01 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
And btw, I definitely know what you mean about the whole oversized typical male characters... Save for FFXI and it's mithra, I've always picked a male character in games... But when I tried WoW, I noticed that all the male characters looked like they were roid raging lol... So I actually picked a female just to avoid the way over the top bulging muscle look. At least the males in the FF games actually look like somewhat normal people. I understand the look they were going for with it, and being strong and masculine is fine and all.. But after a certain point, when they start looking like those freaky super body builder guys, it kind of grosses me out... That's just me though. >.>


I'm not meaning to pick on you in any way here, it's just that what you wrote here made me realize how different peoples perception on video games can be depending on what they have played.

For me, I have generally always played various JRPGs as well as watch a whole lot of anime. From my view, I'm horribly tired of the overly effeminate male characters that seem to be a staple in both JRPGs and anime and because of that I am greatly looking forward to playing a Highlander Hyur. I also play an Elvaan in FFXI and I have to admit I do regret choosing that as my race.

I have noticed that many western titles do seem to have the overly large "roid-rage" style male characters so if one plays those games I can see where they would get tired of it and want a more normal looking character as you said. I suppose I have always found it interesting how varied people's views can be.

Oh and on topic:
Sure why not. I have no plans on ever playing a male Miqo'te or a female Roegadyn but I see no harm in adding them for those that do.
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#22 Aug 01 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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Well what happens if male Miqo'te look like Kimhari from FFX or the lion guy in the banner?





Edited, Aug 1st 2010 4:02pm by dyvidd
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#23 Aug 01 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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MokiSunscar wrote:
o_o More people want Male Miqo'te than you think.

EDIT: They'll come eventually. It's just too bad I'll have already leveled a character by the time they are actually added to the list.

Edited, Aug 1st 2010 12:35pm by MokiSunscar


When I see Tanaka say "It might be a possibility, we'll look into it" I read it as "Although my cultural upbringing makes me loathe to ever actually say 'no', there is nearly zero chance of this ever happening."

Edited, Aug 1st 2010 6:59pm by KarlHungis
#24 Aug 01 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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KarlHungis wrote:
MokiSunscar wrote:
o_o More people want Male Miqo'te than you think.

EDIT: They'll come eventually. It's just too bad I'll have already leveled a character by the time they are actually added to the list.

Edited, Aug 1st 2010 12:35pm by MokiSunscar


When I see Tanaka say "It might be a possibility, we'll look into it" I read it as "Although my cultural upbringing makes me loathe to ever actually say 'no', there is nearly zero chance of this ever happening."

Edited, Aug 1st 2010 6:59pm by KarlHungis


This. The Japanese will not say "no" if they can avoid it because they have a strong sense that saying "no" dishonors the person asking the question. Anything along the lines of "It may be possible" or "We will consider it" or "Perhaps it can be implemented in the future" almost always mean no.

In fact, unless they say yes, they almost always mean no. They love saying yes and will say yes whenever possible.
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#25 Aug 01 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
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When it comes to the aesthetic: people don't always get what they want. I would hope that you see this in real life.

We aren't debating the functional aspects of Final Fantasy, we're debating the purely aesthetic. Remember that you are indulging in Square Enix's vision of Eorezea and not your own. There comes a point when you have to settle with what you have and learn to love it. Just like in real life.


You make it sound like I'm a spoiled child asking for a pony. :P I just don't see how it makes sense to include male gender NPC versions of a race and not include them as playable, whilst the opposite gender are. You also make SE out to be some sort of aristocracy and that we have to learn to abide by their perfect laws; are they not allowed ANY public criticism? If there's no point in the public suggesting improvements, what on earth is the beta for? And aren't they creating this world for the consumer, not themselves? And, from how I'm interpreting what you said (correct me if it's not what you meant), that sad ideology of living -- learn to love what you have, because anything better is impossible -- is ridiculous irl too. Don't strive for anything in life? No thanks.

Quote:
And btw, I definitely know what you mean about the whole oversized typical male characters... Save for FFXI and it's mithra, I've always picked a male character in games... But when I tried WoW, I noticed that all the male characters looked like they were roid raging lol... So I actually picked a female just to avoid the way over the top bulging muscle look. At least the males in the FF games actually look like somewhat normal people. I understand the look they were going for with it, and being strong and masculine is fine and all.. But after a certain point, when they start looking like those freaky super body builder guys, it kind of grosses me out... That's just me though. >.>


Haha, I was starting to fear that no one would get my points about the stereotypically oversized males -- thank goodness someone else noticed the trend. xD I'm not a fan of the look, either. And on that note,

Quote:

For me, I have generally always played various JRPGs as well as watch a whole lot of anime. From my view, I'm horribly tired of the overly effeminate male characters that seem to be a staple in both JRPGs and anime and because of that I am greatly looking forward to playing a Highlander Hyur. I also play an Elvaan in FFXI and I have to admit I do regret choosing that as my race.

I have noticed that many western titles do seem to have the overly large "roid-rage" style male characters so if one plays those games I can see where they would get tired of it and want a more normal looking character as you said. I suppose I have always found it interesting how varied people's views can be.


Heh. I have the exact same situation, only opposite. While I do play both Eastern and Western games (and have watched some anime -- including the not-so-effeminate DBZ as a kid), I still prefer a slimmer, more realistic character build than a steroid-guzzling bodybuilder. Personally, I was never particularly fond of the appearance; my hatred just grew worse as the trend kept continuing. But to each his own, I suppose; I have no qualm with another preferring that appearance, so long as I, too, am allowed my own preference.

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Well what happens if male Miqo'te look like Kimhari from FFX or the lion guy in the banner?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4yvjOrLW8E&feature=related says most likely not.
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#26 Aug 01 2010 at 5:55 PM Rating: Good
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I'de love to see full sexual equality available in at least all the base races, if they keep some of the clans singles *** oriented that's great. I do hope that they give us Mankitties and Femhulks, but I'm not holding my breath in the end, maybe I'll be plesantly suprised.

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I have noticed that many western titles do seem to have the overly large "roid-rage" style male characters so if one plays those games I can see where they would get tired of it and want a more normal looking character as you said. I suppose I have always found it interesting how varied people's views can be.


Personaly I don't think roids are the only problem the human males had in WoW, there was also that look of "Inbreed on a farm" Itellyouwhat. and all the nightelf males looking like darkened M. Jackson clones... *shudder* the later Jackson.
Oh BTW has anyone knoticed that Latoya looks kinda like a Gelfling now?
#27 Aug 01 2010 at 6:29 PM Rating: Decent
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w34v3r wrote:
You make it sound like I'm a spoiled child asking for a pony.


Then you say:
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And aren't they creating this world for the consumer, not themselves?


They are creating this world because they love to make games and are making their skills and interests into a lucrative business.

As to your other comments: Loving what you are means taking your "imperfections"—usually the imperfections other people tell you are imperfections—and succeeding in life despite the naysayers. It had nothing to do with being satisfied with the status quo.


Edited, Aug 1st 2010 8:34pm by Nonagon
#28 Aug 01 2010 at 6:48 PM Rating: Default
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They are creating this world because they love to make games and are making their skills and interests into a lucrative business.


/facepalm Seriously, it's funny and all, but just stop. It's not working.

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Loving what you are means taking your "imperfections"—usually the imperfections other people tell you are imperfections—and succeeding in life despite the naysayers. It had nothing to do with being satisfied with the status quo.


=

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Remember that you are indulging in Square Enix's vision of Eorezea and not your own. There comes a point when you have to settle with what you have and learn to love it. Just like in real life


???

Thanks for commenting.
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#29 Aug 01 2010 at 6:55 PM Rating: Decent
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w34v3r wrote:


Thanks for commenting.


Apparently your "thanks for your input!" schtick wears off quickly.

#30 Aug 01 2010 at 7:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Apparently your "thanks for your input!" schtick wears off quickly.


Try harder.
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#31 Aug 01 2010 at 7:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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It is true in the end though, if a company makeing a game tries to make everything to please all the people who tell them what they want then they will make a big steaming pile of fail.

For a game to be good it needs to remain true to the vision of the people makeing it, changes can be made to acomidate some of the things players want but you can only bend the straw so far before it breaks. If it is not arangable within the vision of the Developers then continueing to push will only result in harming the game.
#32 Aug 01 2010 at 7:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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There are two surefire ways to ruin a game.

The first is to ignore your players.

The second is to give them what they ask for.
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#33 Aug 01 2010 at 8:10 PM Rating: Decent
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It is true in the end though, if a company makeing a game tries to make everything to please all the people who tell them what they want then they will make a big steaming pile of fail.

For a game to be good it needs to remain true to the vision of the people makeing it, changes can be made to acomidate some of the things players want but you can only bend the straw so far before it breaks. If it is not arangable within the vision of the Developers then continueing to push will only result in harming the game.


Thank you for providing a smartly thought-out representation of what I assume was Nonagon's "point." I completely agree -- however, neglecting the viewpoints and suggestions of the public is even likelier to end up making an even worse game. Take Aion, for example. The developers stayed true to their vision -- to a major fault. Now the community is filled with people complaining about how the devs aren't listening to their suggestions and only making the game worse with their continued neglect of their players while implementing features only they believe are for the best. It's a sinking ship, largely in part due to the devs not listening to the community.

There absolutely has to be a balance between the two. Without an equilibrium, any game is inevitably destined to fail. But I think we all know that.

That said, and getting back to my original point, I don't see how adding another gender to an existing race would be considered game-breaking.
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#34 Aug 01 2010 at 11:49 PM Rating: Good
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I know the answer for your question.
they can not think of a total of 8 hairstyles for the Male Miqo'tes yet. they think it's a huge task to accomplish that. so they decide not to add it yet :D
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#35 Aug 02 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree with the original poster. I am very excited for this game, and I know alot of changes have been made from xi to xiv, but I just don't understand square's reasoning for not including one new playable race. Yes, there are male only Hyur Highlanders... that's about it and is a far stretch from a truely new race. And I know Square said they want people from xi to be able to play as characters that are simliar to their xi character. But why limit people to ONLY having those set choices.

How would it of hurt the game to have male miqotes or female roes? What damage would of been done? Not much. 1: people would be happy to see new options even if they weren't planning on playing one. 2: THERE WOULDN"T BE A MILLION "WHY AREN"T THERE MALE MIQOTE" TOPICS ACROSS FORUMS EVERYWHERE. I HIGHLY doubt we'd be seeing many "I CAN"T believe they dare added male miqote" topics. People would either be happy they get to be one, and if they arent one they'd not really care as it doesn't affect their desired play choice.

Square changed the races' names so they could have a different lore around the races..... So why in the world are miqotes still stigmatized as males being HIGHLY solitary.... Makes very little sense.

The only options I can assume at all are: 1: Square is worried with male miqotes being the only new race they'd dominate so many player choices and there'd be a race imballance of way more miqotes than other races (or that with male and female choices it would create an imbalance) or 2: that they are worried about cat-men because of some japanese reason that as an american i have no idea what it is.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 2:13am by PinkMermaid
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#36 Aug 02 2010 at 12:16 AM Rating: Decent
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im thinking they might add it on PS3 release or later expansions :D
so ppl will spend 3 extra dollar to play the male miqo'te or female roedaegyn and start at level 1
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#37 Aug 02 2010 at 12:29 AM Rating: Decent
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But wouldn't that just make there be a flush of a large amount of people playing as male miqotes or female roes? Current players who aren't even interested in playing as one are likely to make one just to try it out or simply because its new. New players who have followed the game are likely to play one to be different than all the existing players.

That's why I always thought they never added it to xi anyways. I think Square just is attached to their current characters and doesn't want to change the mold so to speak. I don't think it will happen in xiv. Which stinks really, more variety/options in the aspect of race is good imo even though I wouldn't play as a miqote male or female anyways.

I am really very surprised that they didn't make any one new race or one of those two races with the opposite *** playable.
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#38 Aug 02 2010 at 1:51 AM Rating: Good
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But what about those who play male characters and don't want to be stuck with the generic human, emo elf, or ridiculously-sized male-only stereotypical Incredible Hulk?


I really agree with you on this.

If they look like taller Zidanes, that'd be awesome. I think I'd even play it if they looked like Ronsos, Khimari was a beast and exotic looking. For now though.. Hume it is :/
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#39 Aug 02 2010 at 4:07 AM Rating: Good
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When it comes to stuff like this or the # of hairstyles,etc. seems like a lot people feel SE is punishing them by not putting it in the game or doing more of it. Would it break the game? No. Would it have killed them to try? Nope.

But is it really that important? I can't imagine it being very high on their list of priorities. Rightfully so because it isn't that big of a deal.

So the "What would it hurt?" argument doesn't work for me because I fail to see how "It's no big deal, it wouldn't kill the game" equals "It should be in the game".



Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 6:32am by TwistedOwl
#40 Aug 02 2010 at 6:37 AM Rating: Good
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Ultimately it's a big disappoint that they won't add a race that would be more popular than Galka/Roegadyn. I was really pulling for male Miqote, and I'm glad that SE apparently at least made an effort, but ultimately I was just wanting SOMETHING new. Highlanders and clans was not really what would appease me from a character creation standpoint. It'd be nice if they pull a rabbit (or something) out of their hat come release, but I would be pretty surprised if they did.

Of course right now, I'd say the game has plenty of other things to worry about. liek moar hair omg
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#41 Aug 02 2010 at 8:40 AM Rating: Default
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I guess the question is do you want to delay the game for another 6 months just to add male Miqo'te or start playing now and 6 months later they are introduced into the game?
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#42 Aug 02 2010 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
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TwistedOwl wrote:
When it comes to stuff like this or the # of hairstyles,etc. seems like a lot people feel SE is punishing them by not putting it in the game or doing more of it. Would it break the game? No. Would it have killed them to try? Nope.

But is it really that important? I can't imagine it being very high on their list of priorities. Rightfully so because it isn't that big of a deal.

So the "What would it hurt?" argument doesn't work for me because I fail to see how "It's no big deal, it wouldn't kill the game" equals "It should be in the game".


What would it hurt if the McDonalds up the street from me started serving Reuben sandwiches? I love Reuben sandwiches. It's no big deal, because it wouldn't kill McDonalds, and I can't see people complaining "Oh my God, McDonalds has Reuben Sandwiches? I'm -never- eating there". Sure, I could go to Arby's and get one there, but Arby's is like... 7 minutes away. And I guess I could make one myself but that's too much work. No, McDonalds needs to carry them. It wouldn't break the restaurant.

I'm going to march up to McDonalds and demand they serve me a Reuben. And I'm going to pitch a fit if they tell me no. I would not be lovin' it at all. Then I guess I'll go to Burger King and demand they have it. They said I can have it my way, my way is a ******* Reuben. What would it hurt for Burger King to have a Reuben too?

Every restaurant should have a Reuben, because some people like them, and I don't want to eat beef patties. Other people would eat Reubens too, so there's no reason not to serve them.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 11:27am by Mikhalia
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#43 Aug 02 2010 at 9:39 AM Rating: Good
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Take Aion, for example. The developers stayed true to their vision -- to a major fault.

Really? I heard it was the other way around and they changed a lot of things because everyone thought they knew best, but I was never much into PvP-focused games.

Honestly, as far as MMOs go, JMMOs like FFXIV really do have the most feminine male characters. Square Enix isn't an American company with their "the customer is always right" mindset. Just because they're releasing their product to us, doesn't mean we should take advantage of them, or expect them to just change something for you! If I took ONE lesson away from FFXI, that would be it. Or just be prepared to wait five years for something to change.

Go into FFXIV with an open mind, and you'll have the best time of your life! If you start expecting THIS to be there, or THAT to work that way, you'll just end up being very disappointed. Just because a race doesn't have cat ears and a tail doesn't mean it isn't slender, agile and feminine.
#44 Aug 02 2010 at 9:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Chikama wrote:
Honestly, as far as MMOs go, JMMOs like FFXIV really do have the most feminine male characters. Square Enix isn't an American company with their "the customer is always right" mindset. Just because they're releasing their product to us, doesn't mean we should take advantage of them, or expect them to just change something for you! If I took ONE lesson away from FFXI, that would be it. Or just be prepared to wait five years for something to change.


Indeed. It's one thing to want things a certain way but sometimes you have to relax and enjoy someone else's vision of the world. Pencil and paper D&D players have been doing it for decades.
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#45 Aug 02 2010 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
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Chikama wrote:
Quote:
Take Aion, for example. The developers stayed true to their vision -- to a major fault.

Really? I heard it was the other way around and they changed a lot of things because everyone thought they knew best, but I was never much into PvP-focused games.

Honestly, as far as MMOs go, JMMOs like FFXIV really do have the most feminine male characters. Square Enix isn't an American company with their "the customer is always right" mindset. Just because they're releasing their product to us, doesn't mean we should take advantage of them, or expect them to just change something for you! If I took ONE lesson away from FFXI, that would be it. Or just be prepared to wait five years for something to change.

Go into FFXIV with an open mind, and you'll have the best time of your life! If you start expecting THIS to be there, or THAT to work that way, you'll just end up being very disappointed. Just because a race doesn't have cat ears and a tail doesn't mean it isn't slender, agile and feminine.


So I was watching the video that S-E put out last week talking about the different character races and how they motion captured all the animations, including emotes. And I was struck by how "un western" all the movements were. Not necessarily the combat movements, because what do I know about how a european would swing a great axe vs how an asian would, but I mean the actual character emotes. You don't realize how different the small mannerisms are until you really start to think about "oh yea, that asian mo-cap actor really doesn't move like any one I've ever been around, so the emote is going to look really strange."

It's just "one of those things." It doesn't bother me, but I think it might be more interesting if they actually had a burly african or caucasian person doing the emotes for highlanders, for example to create a greater feeling of authenticity. I wonder if any one would actually notice the subtle differences.
#46 Aug 02 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
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KarlHungis wrote:
Chikama wrote:
Quote:
Take Aion, for example. The developers stayed true to their vision -- to a major fault.

Really? I heard it was the other way around and they changed a lot of things because everyone thought they knew best, but I was never much into PvP-focused games.

Honestly, as far as MMOs go, JMMOs like FFXIV really do have the most feminine male characters. Square Enix isn't an American company with their "the customer is always right" mindset. Just because they're releasing their product to us, doesn't mean we should take advantage of them, or expect them to just change something for you! If I took ONE lesson away from FFXI, that would be it. Or just be prepared to wait five years for something to change.

Go into FFXIV with an open mind, and you'll have the best time of your life! If you start expecting THIS to be there, or THAT to work that way, you'll just end up being very disappointed. Just because a race doesn't have cat ears and a tail doesn't mean it isn't slender, agile and feminine.


So I was watching the video that S-E put out last week talking about the different character races and how they motion captured all the animations, including emotes. And I was struck by how "un western" all the movements were. Not necessarily the combat movements, because what do I know about how a european would swing a great axe vs how an asian would, but I mean the actual character emotes. You don't realize how different the small mannerisms are until you really start to think about "oh yea, that asian mo-cap actor really doesn't move like any one I've ever been around, so the emote is going to look really strange."

It's just "one of those things." It doesn't bother me, but I think it might be more interesting if they actually had a burly african or caucasian person doing the emotes for highlanders, for example to create a greater feeling of authenticity. I wonder if any one would actually notice the subtle differences.


The people that generally notices the differences are those who like to nitpick a game to death to find faults. You rarely find people who notice it in the eyes of a designer.
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#47 Aug 02 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Just wanted to add my support for this, since it seems threads on this topic always breed a ton of opposition for God knows what reason. It's not too outlandish to ask for a gender equivalent of an existing race - these aren't playable goblins or moogles people. Besides, they have three Hyur variations and only one Miqo'te? It doesn't even have to be something so drastic as the highlander is from the standard Hyur.

We keep hearing about how FFXI != FFXIV, yet we're stuck with the same gender restrictions as FFXI - even after the lore explaining it has been thrown out. Adding male miqo'te would have really helped FFXIV feel like a new game with a new story, regardless of how may people actually wanted to play one. Some of the development time saved by sticking to the old races should have been used to fill out the available genders in my opinion.
#48 Aug 02 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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I really do heavily support the addition of male Miqo'te... I always found it interesting how there actually are male Mithra/Miqo'te in existence but I guess they're so rare that the females of the race refuse to let them go out and adventure and risk their lives. I'd love to play as a male of this race, but after reading this thread and the strong arguments for why it's not a big deal that it's female-only I can deal.

Either way, I was going to make a Roegadyn anyway. Speaking of which, I do also support female Roegadyn; I love how there's always been the option for female Trolls and Ogres in EverQuest/EQII but you almost NEVER saw one, like, EVER. When you did, it was like an event. It was so cool.
#49 Aug 02 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
So I was watching the video that S-E put out last week talking about the different character races and how they motion captured all the animations, including emotes. And I was struck by how "un western" all the movements were. Not necessarily the combat movements, because what do I know about how a european would swing a great axe vs how an asian would, but I mean the actual character emotes. You don't realize how different the small mannerisms are until you really start to think about "oh yea, that asian mo-cap actor really doesn't move like any one I've ever been around, so the emote is going to look really strange."

It's just "one of those things." It doesn't bother me, but I think it might be more interesting if they actually had a burly african or caucasian person doing the emotes for highlanders, for example to create a greater feeling of authenticity. I wonder if any one would actually notice the subtle differences.


Thank you for saying this Karl. Everytime I've mentioned this, the response is always "well I hate to break it to ya, but this is a japanese game"; thank you for that amazing tidbit of information. . . so is Soul Caliber, and minus the terrible voice acting, the animations themselves are very universal. I see what they tried to do with mo-cap, but in the end if you want the animations to be true to the game setting, you can't just give a pole to some random japanese woman. I'm sorry, nothing personal, but they look awkward and much too fragile.

Couldn't they have hired some ninjas?

Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 1:21pm by GuardianFaith
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#50 Aug 02 2010 at 2:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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dyvidd wrote:
I guess the question is do you want to delay the game for another 6 months just to add male Miqo'te or start playing now and 6 months later they are introduced into the game?


I really doubt adding a male miqote would of added 6 months onto the development time. Especially if they had started from the start with that goal in mind. To add it now would probably be an issue, but from the start and to have it in their development plans, I think it would of been fine and not added much to the development cycle time-wise.

I think square just likes the characters they had in xi and want to stay true to that in xiv by keeping the races very similiar. So xi people feel "welcomed" or "comfortable" in xiv or something.

Most FF games don't just change the names of races, they add something new. I don't get why we have to stick the xi lore that male mithras are very solitary in a new game.....

Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 4:54pm by PinkMermaid
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#51 Aug 02 2010 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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Wow

I don't see how how this was even an offensive thread to some people but looks like some undies are getting uncomfortable.

Then I'll speak up and take my 'foot' out of my mouth.

I wouldn't say I'm typically upset about the counter parts of some of the races. Though I was really looking forward to the male miqo'te being introduced. I would have picked it for sure as my main character. SE has done alot to make this game very original and get away from FFXI and the battle systems, personally, other than the races. Reason being because they want the vets to feel welcome and be able to play a character to FFXI likeness, but why not introduce a new character? That isn't basically a human. In FFXI I wasen't upset a bit about the choice of races and *** specifics. In FFXI the background of the story supported the reason for why Galkas were the same ***. Something about reincarnation is what i remember. As for as Mithra I'm sure there was one too. Though I don't remember it. But this not FFXI, I figured this was going to be a completely different game. Why not have the male miqo'te or the female 'galka'? It's just the same characters with different names.

Everyone makes comments on what they would like to see/do in a game. Either items, skills, exc. Don't see how introducing a *** is so taboo.


Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 6:37pm by Pinkunderwear
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