Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
This Forum is Read Only

So, you don't have to be an FFXI oldbie, right?Follow

#1 Aug 02 2010 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
*
52 posts
Well, I'm a very longtime fan of Final Fantasy, and love the classic ones as much as the new ones. I even love the weird ones like Mystic Quest and Adventure/Legend 1-3 which aren't even actual Final Fantasy games.

The one major Final Fantasy I haven't "beaten", or even gotten very far in, is FFXI. I just wasn't in a situation to play it when it was new, and by the time I finally tried it just a year or so ago, I was only able to reach about level 27 (MNK)/14 (WAR) before really giving up. I even had a friend that was an oldbie that wanted to make a new guy, but he ended up bulleting past me to like level 60 within those few weeks I was able to play. He got me into a linkshell that seemed pretty active but it pretty much just did valkrum forever, all the way up to 75, whereas I wanted to get out and explore this game I'd been missing for years. I dunno, I just kinda lost interest really badly when I realized that seemingly a massive percentage of the game was made up of super veterans who would literally kick you if you didn't have and know how to use all these crazy various sets of equipment and know about all these weaponskill chains and all this other stuff. It seemed that I was "too late" to really get into the game.

Well, I've been psyched for FFXIV for a long time, since I first heard of its existence I've been dead-set on playing it as soon as humanly possible. For once in my life, I'd like to play a major MMO from the very beginning; I've actually played many other MMOs, both small and large, P2P Western and F2P Korean and everything in between, but most of them I don't stick with that long, or "give up on" similarly to FFXI, for among other reasons difficulty running the game, difficulty finding friends to play with or who stay interested long and difficulty finding good mature players in the game itself, or as stated before, getting into the game "too late". Well, I have a PC now that's absolutely capable of running FFXIV very well as proven by the benchmark, and my own older brother--who's never even played an MMO before--plans to jump into FFXIV at the PS3 release. And I have a funny feeling I'll make a lot of good friends in the community if it's remotely mature--EverQuest II was probably my favorite MMO just due to the maturity and kindness of the community, and I've heard from many people that they experienced very similar vibes in FFXI in its earlier years, so I'm hoping it holds true for XIV.... so basically, everything looks fantastic, perfect for me to really sink my teeth into with XIV.

However... just the fact that I didn't ever get that into FFXI, or learn all that much about it outside the basics, keeps bothering me. I get this bad feeling that I'm going to run into a lot of people from FFXI that STILL keep that elitist attitude and feel that they're going to feel like "oldbies" in FFXIV even when it's freshly-released, due to their experience in its predecessor. Even if the gameplay's different enough that I needn't worry about people seriously knowing more about it than me when we're all first starting out, I can tell from such things as Square-Enix's decison to keep the races nearly identical and other such "ties" to FFXI that there's a heavy intention to make the FFXI veterans feel comfortable, and though I completely understand the wisdom behind that choice, it ends up making me a little uncomfortable. Y'know? I guess I just need someone to tell me that I shouldn't worry, and maybe give me a reason why. I mean, I probably know more about Final Fantasy in general and MMOs in general than a lot of the guys that'll be playing, anyway, it's just ... I guess FFXI's elitism was just such a bad deal to me. I just wanna be able to make a bunch of friends who aren't like that.

And I truly apologize for making such a massive post, I know most people probably won't read it, but I've been lurking around here today, reading a whole lot of stuff, and it seems that you guys are pretty mature and have made a bunch of long thoughtful posts, so maybe one or two of you will be able to handle my textwalling, lol.
#2 Aug 02 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
Sage
****
6,470 posts
I don't think you've got any reason to worry. Most of the game's similarities to FFXI appear to be cosmetic; the substance of the experience looks to be different enough that people aren't going to hit the ground running fresh off of XI.

Starting from the beginning of a game is a big deal for me too. There certainly is something to be said for being there in the first year, when people are still flailing about trying to get their feet wet. Perhaps people are more social at that time, because everyone's trying to meet new faces and learn. Games that I've joined far after their initial release always seem to be much colder places to me...like joining a new school where everyone has already formed into cliques.

You should post here more! Getting involved in the community will help a ton. You'll be up to date on info, have a resource where you're comfortable coming to ask questions after the game is released, and maybe even make some friends to talk with in or out of game.
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#3 Aug 02 2010 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
****
4,150 posts
Eske wrote:
You should post here more! Getting involved in the community will help a ton. You'll be up to date on info, have a resource where you're comfortable coming to ask questions after the game is released, and maybe even make some friends to talk with in or out of game.


This is the truth. We're generally a pretty friendly bunch, although some people have more off-putting (read: direct to the point of bluntness) attitudes than others. Eske and I can usually also be found over at the Lancer forum, and I'll frequently stick my head in the Fisher forum as well, given that I want to make that my primary class.
____________________________
FFXI-Garuda 2003-2009; Lakshmi 2011-8/20/13 (retired)
FFXIV: ARR - Ghost Bear, Balmung server
#4 Aug 02 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
***
1,675 posts
I think SE's intention is to make the game more accessible.

Yes the players might carry over some elitist attitude, but all MMOs have a bit of that.

However the mechanics in FFXIV seem pretty different from FFXI and the new grouping system and soloing aspects may alleviate some of that elitism.

The only thing I can say is start now, and have fun before roles are fully entrenched.
#5 Aug 02 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
*
52 posts
LOL Eske, what you said in your second paragraph about it feeling like moving to a new school if you come to an MMO too late--that's EXACTLY what I mean. And I never really have been a part of a major MMO when it was new, except, like, Maple Story when that was in beta, but that's probably the absolute worst example of a pathetically immature community in what I guess you could call a pathetically immature game. When it comes to stuff like WoW and FFXI... I just... I dunno. Stuff happened. When WoW was new and FFXI was still probably bearable to enter into as a newbie in 2004, my step brothers and their friends pretty much hazed me into getting EverQuest II, which I couldn't even run at the time.. .and by the time I could, it wasn't WELL, but I did overall enjoy the experience a lot due to the maturity of the community. If it hadn't been for terrible frames-per-second and drama with those old RL friends I may have really heavily gotten addicted to that one, I did come back to it a few times.

But yeah, I'm really looking forward to this. Admittedly, I've already had the Collector's Edition pre-ordered for awhile now, so I was gonna play it regardless, I just felt like I needed to ask this somewhere. And it makes me really happy to see two people not only refraining from just saying "tl;dr" and being dorks, but actually giving thoughtful replies and both asking me to post more... I really think I will.

Now, if only I could figure out where the "quote" button is... such that it auto-quotes a post when you reply, y'know? lol...
#6 Aug 02 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Excellent
**
327 posts
Like Eske said, most similarities between 11 and 14 are purely cosmetic (which personally, I wish it was 100% original). FFXI was an odd duck among MMO's, considering it was a MMO created with a console in mind, from a creator of standard single player RPGs. FFXIV will likely have a more user friendly interface, and be more accessible that 11 was.

I started FFXI at the top of '05 (about 6 months after COP came out) and came in just as alot of "major" changes were implemented to the game. The user base WAS kinda elitist, but not too bad. There's advantages to joining a MMO "in progress" vs one that is just starting. An established MMO has alot more information to go by, to get you started, as well as guide your progress. Starting a fresh MMO means pretty much the general populace are all kinda noobish, so you won't have to deal with much elitism at the start.

I never bothered with forums of any kind before FFXI. Now, I find them a necessity to keep up with current info, ideas, and speculations. They are always a great reference tool, and a great social spot to boot!

Rellias wrote:


Now, if only I could figure out where the "quote" button is... such that it auto-quotes a post when you reply, y'know? lol...


Click "Reply to this" on the bar on top of w/e post you want to quote. When the post box pops up, right at the top with the text options, there's a link that says "Quote Original". Took me a time to figure that out too :)

Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 12:52pm by LordDVS
____________________________

FFXI - LordDVS <Bismarck> BLU75 DRK75 SAM75 BST75 PLD75


#7 Aug 02 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
I'm certain there will be an attitude shared by some of the oldschool FFXI players in XIV. But it's a new game and you'll be starting out on ground one with everyone else. So long as you're dedicated and helpful and polite, you should be fine.

As for XI; I still don't think it's too late to get started; the only thing that keeps me from recommending XI to people is XIV.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#8 Aug 02 2010 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
72 posts
I don't anyone will even know if you played FFXI or not unless they start asking you specific things about it for no reason.
#9 Aug 02 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
Sage
****
6,470 posts
Rellias wrote:
And it makes me really happy to see two people not only refraining from just saying "tl;dr" and being dorks, but actually giving thoughtful replies and both asking me to post more... I really think I will.


Good to hear : )

Ralrra wrote:
We're generally a pretty friendly bunch, although some people have more off-putting (read: direct to the point of bluntness) attitudes than others.


Speaking of...did Aurelius leave? Haven't seen him around in a while.
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#10 Aug 02 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
**
447 posts
OP,

You will be fine. As others have said, while the game looks to be similar cosmetically, there's plenty of things about it that appear to be far different from FFXI.

A lot of people in my old LS (I retired about a year ago) appear to not be as excited about making the switch as I would've thought. To the point where, other than one friend, I don't even care which server I will be on.

There certainly were plenty of elitists in FFXI, but with everyone starting on ground zero, elitism should be at minimal levels. IMO, it will more of the "I played in the BETA, so STFU", than "I played FFXI and had Matt's cap, so STFU" mentality.

I will welcome and embrace anyone who comes to FFXIV, and I really look forward to meeting all new people and helping to build a successful linkshell!

Cheers!
____________________________
FFXIV:
PL (40) CRP (32) CON (27) ALC (17) THM (15) GSM (15)


FFXI (Retired):
PLD [75] RDM [75] WAR [75] BRD [75] NIN [75] SAM [75]


#11 Aug 02 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
4,150 posts
Eske wrote:
Ralrra wrote:
We're generally a pretty friendly bunch, although some people have more off-putting (read: direct to the point of bluntness) attitudes than others.


Speaking of...did Aurelius leave? Haven't seen him around in a while.

I remember reading in a different thread that he ****** off an admin and got either muted or banned.
____________________________
FFXI-Garuda 2003-2009; Lakshmi 2011-8/20/13 (retired)
FFXIV: ARR - Ghost Bear, Balmung server
#12 Aug 02 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
Sage
****
6,470 posts
Ralrra wrote:
Eske wrote:
Ralrra wrote:
We're generally a pretty friendly bunch, although some people have more off-putting (read: direct to the point of bluntness) attitudes than others.


Speaking of...did Aurelius leave? Haven't seen him around in a while.

I remember reading in a different thread that he ****** off an admin and got either muted or banned.


I suppose neither would surprise me : /
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#13 Aug 02 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*
217 posts
With any MMO, you're always going to have the "I want have the best and to get there first" crowd. As for myself, I find it's the journey and the friends you make along the way that makes the game worthwhile.

I wouldn't worry about FFXIV. I think you'll fit in just fine learning your way around the game with the rest of us, and making friends along the way.
____________________________
Aeloriel Autumnleaf - Ultros Server

Karma Zameleons - LS
The Kraken Club - Zam Free Company

It's not the destination, it's the Journey!

#14 Aug 02 2010 at 3:46 PM Rating: Decent
*
52 posts
KnocturnalOne wrote:
To the point where, other than one friend, I don't even care which server I will be on.


Hey, that's another thing that's been concerning me. Seems like every time (with the exception of EQII, again, in which case it seemed like I picked the single by-far-best server) I play an MMO I pick the "wrong server". Like, I just pick one not caring much, then once I've put time into it I meet people on forums or whatever else that end up existing on a different server. It was the WORST in WoW... Every single time I played I'd start on X server with someone who wanted me to play with them but ended up completely ignoring me even through tells at all times because he'd be raiding 24/7 and be too busy, only to find out that a ton of people played on Y server and would have helped me, and then by the time I convince myself to remake despite all the hours I put into server X the people form server Y are too far ahead or don't care anymore or something. It's awful! I guess starting when the game's brand new would help lessen that impact, but I suppose one really good thing about posting here would be making some friends and deciding on a server to play from there. Are any of you guys planning on making a cool group on a specific server yet or is everyone just thinking "whatever" about it so far?

Speaking of which, I love how the servers are named after FF villains, unless that's just for beta... from the names alone I'd kinda wanna join Golbez as he's both oldschool and badass :3
#15 Aug 02 2010 at 3:47 PM Rating: Default
*
71 posts
As everyone said, the best part is enjoy the game and make friends along the way. The last FF I played was um FF4 and 9 haha! I hope to make some new friends in the game!
#16 Aug 02 2010 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,449 posts
Rellias, you bring some valid points but I disagree on the term "Elitist". In my opinion which is restricted to FFXI and WoW what happens is that the harder things get the more players expect excelence.

As FFIX was a hard game to advance you faced that side of the issue much sooner than on other games. In WoW you would have a much more relaxed "party/group" enviroment untill you got to end game raiding and such but you would still feel it on those circumstances.

In FFXI because you got to spend so much time in Jeuno/Whitegate to actually get a party then the expectation to play your job/class at it's best would appears after level 30 or so.

Regardless, since the great majority of players won't have a clue about what they should be doing in the first couple weeks (barelly any information about job performance have come out) you shouldn't feel the pressure or as you say Elitism that much.
____________________________


My FFXIV Blog



#17 Aug 02 2010 at 4:26 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
751 posts
Along with all that elitism came a lot of drama.

I know of a number of people who retired from FFXI because they were bored of the end game drama and fed up of their LS which they were close to - but things just went on too long.

SOme of these people are actually looking forward to being newbies again. They are also like me and 6-7 years older than when they played FFXI as if it was their life. Nowadays they are looking for a more casual gaming experience. Some of those that were elitist hard core players back in the day - now will be more casual and looking for something different.

There will then be a whole set of new hardcore players who never played FFXI because they were too young.

I think the generation gap between these two games will ensure that the play experience will be varied depending on what you want to get out of it. WHo knows you may even end up as an elitist "jerk" yourself :-)
____________________________
FFXIV: Crafty Hallie, Ultros





#18 Aug 02 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
***
2,536 posts
I have absolutely no idea why, but this thread made me think of this for some unknown reason that completely eludes me.
____________________________
FF11 Server: Caitsith
Kalyna (retired, 2008)
100 Goldsmith
75 Rng, Brd
Main/Acc
Exp/Hybrid
Str/Attk
Spam/Others
#19 Aug 02 2010 at 10:37 PM Rating: Good
Sage
****
6,470 posts
Threx wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why, but this thread made me think of this for some unknown reason that completely eludes me.


It may not have had any relevance, but I'm glad you linked it. I had totally forgotten about that thing!
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#20 Aug 02 2010 at 10:42 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
255 posts
Controversial post time:

Not a day goes by I don't read something about the elitism of older generation MMO players and I will hold my tongue no more!

I joined a shell on FFXI in my early days that was dedicated to summoners. I was a level 20 summoner when I joined and I was so happy! If anyone asked for assistance with stuff I was there. The leader of the shell came on less and less and I ended up being the first level 75 SMN in the shell - as such the help requests were coming in faster than ever. Of course I didn't mind helping but there was a part of me that wished people would help themselves a little bit first.

After getting approximately 50 /tells a day asking for assistance with the Fenrir fight I cracked it hard. When I got my Fenrir, I /tell'd SMN but instead of saying "Hey, wanna help with a Fenrir run?" - I would say "I will be your personal slave for a month if you help me with Fenrir".

I was the summoners *****! I ran around doing their dirty work - farming this and fishing that... fwoar, it was hard work and took a long time. By the end of my servitude they all got together and helped me get Fenrir. I worked my *** off for that puppy and some other jerk sends me a random /tell looking for my kindness!?

Call it elitism, but I'd prefer to think of it as being a good mentor. I'll make you work for my assistance in the end.

I call shenanigans on situations where people are kicked from pt's because they don't know what a skillchain is. I find it more likely that someone has informed them what a skillchain is and they ****** it up 2000 times! Someone providing you with assistance, information and/or help has to be met half-way!

That's a fair expectation, no?
____________________________
[img]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxiv/15834_3d32ad424a3db4b1.png[/img]
#21 Aug 02 2010 at 11:12 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
Honestly, in all my time in XI, I can think of a number of people who have been booted from party for being noobs. Not newbs; noobs. There -is- a -huge- difference.

I can not recall a single moment in XI where someone didn't know something and people were unwilling to explain it and just booted them outright. In over half a decade, I can think of no case, ever, where someone didn't know something and wasn't given a chance to learn.

In every single case where someone was booted for not knowing something, it was after the group explained it to them and they either refused to learn or they just weren't getting it.

Amusingly enough, for all the complaints of FFXI elitists, admitting you didn't know a boss fight in WoW was almost guaranteed to get you booted from party. Not only did no one ever want to explain anything, but they wanted you to prove that you had done the fight (and hopefully knew it) by telling you to link the achievement before even inviting you. Attempting a 10 man fight and finding out that just ONE of those 10 people didn't know where to be or what to do usually resulted in getting booted, many times the group would just break entirely.

So yeah, I'm going to enjoy getting back to a game where people don't have to be afraid to admit they don't know something.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#22 Aug 02 2010 at 11:16 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
255 posts
Quote:
So yeah, I'm going to enjoy getting back to a game where people don't have to be afraid to admit they don't know something.


Well said.
____________________________
[img]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxiv/15834_3d32ad424a3db4b1.png[/img]
#23 Aug 02 2010 at 11:18 PM Rating: Good
**
327 posts
Threx wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why, but this thread made me think of this for some unknown reason that completely eludes me.


I have no idea what that was all about, or from where/when. But it sure did give me a laugh.
____________________________

FFXI - LordDVS <Bismarck> BLU75 DRK75 SAM75 BST75 PLD75


#24 Aug 02 2010 at 11:22 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
255 posts
Quote:
I have no idea what that was all about, or from where/when. But it sure did give me a laugh.


It's from some Monk on Seraph about 4 years ago.

He went one step further too. I remember seeing him in Qufim and he changed all his /p to /sh.

far out.
____________________________
[img]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxiv/15834_3d32ad424a3db4b1.png[/img]
#25 Aug 02 2010 at 11:26 PM Rating: Good
***
2,120 posts
There's always gonna be some jerks here & there, can't avoid that entirely. But it sounds like they're correcting a lot of the issues that led to that kind of thing in XI. An example might be a guy who's generally cool, but this particular week he has wasted many hours just sitting in Jeuno waiting for pts, the few invites he's received were major fails, and now he's close to his week-long dream of reaching some milestone level to find a warrior subbing white mage in his party...he may snap.

It's not always people being elitist jerks, but you may have run into them on that bad day. And that stress comes from XI feeling more like a job than a fun game sometimes. Hopefully XIV will avoid a lot of that stress with a more open style of play. Lots of different ways to accomplish certain goals. Solo options if you can't find a party...etc.
#26 Aug 02 2010 at 11:34 PM Rating: Good
Sage
****
6,470 posts
Mikhalia wrote:
So yeah, I'm going to enjoy getting back to a game where people don't have to be afraid to admit they don't know something.


This was my experience too. God, I had to have my hand held for practically any new activity that I was doing in that game.

Me: Where are we? What are we doing here?
Party: We're getting you your AF hat, Eske. Remember?
Me: Oh! Neato!
Party: ....

Etc. etc.

Edited, Aug 3rd 2010 1:35am by Eske
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#27 Aug 03 2010 at 7:21 AM Rating: Decent
*
52 posts
Mikhalia wrote:


So yeah, I'm going to enjoy getting back to a game where people don't have to be afraid to admit they don't know something.


THAT is about the best statement I could've heard. I'm totally fine with anything as long as people put forth an effort to teach me instead of just booting me outright, which was so heavily the way things were--from what I'd heard, even from that guy I knew who'd been playing forever--that I thought surely I wouldn't enjoy playing XI more than I did. Maybe it wouldn't have been that bad if I'd actually tried more, but I was drowning in the idea that I'd come to the party way too late, and ended up quitting...

Yeah, you guys have two good thoughtful posts in a row there talking about how "it's not always elitism, just people expecting you to work a little more for yourself". THAT'S okay with me. I'm totally willing to do everything myself if it's possible, if I can at least ask some questions, just having people to talk to would make it a lot more fun to me. And I do listen, and really take to heart what people tell me to improve my game in games like this. I guess it's just that I really have run into a few true buttmunches that have had the gall to dislike me or refuse to help me just because I lack some kind of experience, and rather than helping me learn it, even begrudgingly, they just flat-out refuse to have anything to do with me. Honestly, that happened to me IRL a lot, especially as a kid, and I think kinda scarred me to be very weary of that kind of situation, and when I just heard it could be like that in XI it was just a major turnoff... and then, of course, I experienced it in WoW just about every time I tried to do anything not completely alone in THAT game, so... I suppose my worry is not unfounded, but I do wish to do away with it altogether, yeah.

And someone mentioned I might become the elitist? I can't predict the future, so I won't say that'll never happen, but I really don't think so... I'd much rather be one of those cool oldbies that goes out of his way to help newer players even if it's not an efficient way to spend his time, as has happened in several smaller games before :3
#28 Aug 03 2010 at 12:24 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,449 posts
As high expectations as some players in FFXI might have had the comunity also had the most helpful players from the limited experience I have in MMOs.

I still remember just logging into the game for the first time in bastok and I couldn't even move, never mind use a help menu. I was lucky enough to notice a guy running by me with a blue ball and an M besides his name (Mentor Program) and somehow tiped something in /s in time for him to stop to help me. He spent about 30 minutes giving me out the basic comands of the game and showing Bastok to me (even though I looked up online about Sa, Ta and SATA for my future THF I never really though about how to move foward or turn the character).

Eventually the guys showed me the Mog House and said I just needed to walk beneath the arches to get in so I thanked him very much and let him go on his own gaming experience. After looking into the Mog House menu and such I then decided to leave and as much as I bounced my head on the door I just couldn't get out. Since the guy spent so much time looking after me I probabbly spent another 10 minutes or so looking at the menues on how to get out with no success.

At the end of the day I just said sorry to distur but how can you leave your Mog House and with a lol he said that you had to "Target" the door and press enter, the same exact thing had happened to him a few months earlier.

FFXI might have had players which took the game very seariously, myself included but in the Mentor Program you had some of the most helpful players from the complete MMO comunity (IMO).
____________________________


My FFXIV Blog



#29 Aug 03 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
Rellias wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:


So yeah, I'm going to enjoy getting back to a game where people don't have to be afraid to admit they don't know something.


THAT is about the best statement I could've heard. I'm totally fine with anything as long as people put forth an effort to teach me instead of just booting me outright

[...]

Yeah, you guys have two good thoughtful posts in a row there talking about how "it's not always elitism, just people expecting you to work a little more for yourself". THAT'S okay with me. I'm totally willing to do everything myself if it's possible, if I can at least ask some questions, just having people to talk to would make it a lot more fun to me. And I do listen, and really take to heart what people tell me to improve my game in games like this.

[...]

And someone mentioned I might become the elitist? I can't predict the future, so I won't say that'll never happen, but I really don't think so... I'd much rather be one of those cool oldbies that goes out of his way to help newer players even if it's not an efficient way to spend his time, as has happened in several smaller games before :3


Ever hear the saying, "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, you'll feed him for a lifetime"?

FFXI drops you on a boat, starving, in the middle of a lake, with a stick and some string.

Some people will figure out how to make a fishing rod, some will give up and starve. Many people, however, are not MacGyver, and will need help. FFXI's community has ALWAYS been about teaching newbies how to fish.

The only time elitism factors in is when you have the people who demand that everyone else "just give me some ******* fish, ********!" That doesn't fly. And those people are usually told to go away. If you have a strong sense of entitlement, that you want an express train to the fish store, you will find everyone to be "elitists" because no one is going to give you a ticket for that train.

XI's community breeds a lot of emphasis on teaching and learning. People are nearly always happy to tell you the why and how because in the end, it not only allows you to figure things out for yourself, but more importantly, it allows YOU to teach OTHERS. It's a very proud moment the first time someone asks YOU a question that you can help them with.

As for you becoming an elitist... that word is often overused and misused. If an elitist is someone that expects people to know everything before even attempting to figure it out; someone that expects a brand new player to have an encyclopedic knowledge of every aspect of the game, those are extremely rare. There are times at higher levels where there are certain expectations, yes; a 75NIN is expected to know how to time Utsusemi Ichi/Ni casts and how to drop shadows midcast. A 75SAM or a 75BLU are expected to know how to self-skillchain. Everyone is expected to know things like managing hate/enmity, etc.

But very rarely are new players chastised for not knowing something they should be expected to know. A level 14 with no sub will be told how to get to Valkurm. A level 30 NIN/WAR will be mocked if they ask how to get to Valkurm. That's just the way it is.

So if an elitist is someone who expects people to be willing and able to learn, that they may teach others; someone who will not tolerate people who expect gear and money to be handed to them... than an elitist I am.

And by -that- definition, everyone should be an elitist.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#30 Aug 03 2010 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
Hugus wrote:
As high expectations as some players in FFXI might have had the comunity also had the most helpful players from the limited experience I have in MMOs.

I still remember just logging into the game for the first time in bastok and I couldn't even move, never mind use a help menu. I was lucky enough to notice a guy running by me with a blue ball and an M besides his name (Mentor Program) and somehow tiped something in /s in time for him to stop to help me. He spent about 30 minutes giving me out the basic comands of the game and showing Bastok to me (even though I looked up online about Sa, Ta and SATA for my future THF I never really though about how to move foward or turn the character).

Eventually the guys showed me the Mog House and said I just needed to walk beneath the arches to get in so I thanked him very much and let him go on his own gaming experience. After looking into the Mog House menu and such I then decided to leave and as much as I bounced my head on the door I just couldn't get out. Since the guy spent so much time looking after me I probabbly spent another 10 minutes or so looking at the menues on how to get out with no success.

At the end of the day I just said sorry to distur but how can you leave your Mog House and with a lol he said that you had to "Target" the door and press enter, the same exact thing had happened to him a few months earlier.

FFXI might have had players which took the game very seariously, myself included but in the Mentor Program you had some of the most helpful players from the complete MMO comunity (IMO).


The mentor program was a great idea, poorly implemented. Because even at level 30 (the requirement to get a mentor flag), you still didn't know much about the game.

However, that gripe aside, many people were willing to help in the form of advice whenever needed. Getting someone to "come do PM 6-4 for me" was met with lackluster response, but questions like "What's SATA mean?" and "How do I tell you my TP?" or "What's the best weapon for me?" (Especially if you were a Warrior with a sword and shield...) would usually be met with helpful, friendly answers.

If anything else, people were often willing to help that they'd just go off on a diatribe about different **** you didn't even ask about. You'd learn a lot but eventually you'd want them to shut up and were too nice to say anything about it :)
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#31 Aug 03 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
339 posts
I thought I'd add to this thread as some stories mentioned take me back to my old FFXI days...

I was in a very nice, helpful Linkshell, we welcomed new players and offered them to ask for help where we would set a night and club together to help overcome those quests like level cap quests, AF quests etc.

And sometimes when we had completed our stuff for the night, we would have "help a random newb" nights.

We would wait in Jueno and Whitegate and watch the shouts. When we saw someone with a "Help me out! (so and so quest)" we would invite them and do the quest.

I enjoyed it. And I'm sure as I'll be starting on PC release, that come PS3 release I'll be doing the same.
#32 Aug 03 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
I was the head of a social LS for a while; we had one night where we had 18 people doing 12 AF3s in one night. If I recall correctly, it was three WHM, two RDM, two RNG, a WAR, a THF, a PLD, a DRG, and a BRD.

Took a long time, but was tons of fun and lots of people got their "Paragon of..." title that night.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#33 Aug 03 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
Sage
****
5,587 posts
Mikhalia wrote:

The only time elitism factors in is when you have the people who demand that everyone else "just give me some @#%^ing fish, @#%^s!" That doesn't fly. And those people are usually told to go away. If you have a strong sense of entitlement, that you want an express train to the fish store, you will find everyone to be "elitists" because no one is going to give you a ticket for that train.
Actually, elitists in FFXI were the type who would say "you don't know how to fish noob? GTFO of my party" or "you are still using a stick of bamboo, string and a hook? It's Shimano Cumara or your wasting my time/exp! Can't afford one? Go fish you lazy noob."
____________________________
Harri
80BLU/80BST/76RNG/75THF/75WHM/60SCH
100+3 Bonecraft
#34 Aug 03 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
Don't worry there'll be FFXI "oldbies" who will instill their elitism on you when you first step foot in FFXIV. To them I suggest you give the back of your fist because nobody knows anything more or less than anyone else since the game is brand new and very different than XI and we're all starting on even footings - the only people that'll have more knowledge than you are the ones in the beta, assuming you aren't.
____________________________
MUTED
#35 Aug 03 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,233 posts
I have two really distinct memories from my two favorite moments in FFXI.

The first was my first login to the game from my ps2. I remember being awed by the graphics Smiley: lol and the music of the intro, which took about 4 hours just to get to because of the patches and installation downloads... But after the cutscene and the video I was standing in the middle of Port San d'Oria watching tons of people walk past me towards a boat looking thing with propellers on it, a bunch of people fishing, little kid npcs standing next to me and the place was massive! After walking around completely lost for about 30 minutes I finally made it out to ronfaure and an Orc was standing at the gate which immediately killed me. 4 Hours of install for this! Smiley: grin but it was totally worth it, I knew I'd found the right game for me.

The second was about 12~16 months later, I was a 75MNK in a Dynamis linkshell, the first on our server to be competitive enough to down the Shadow Lord in Dynamis-Xarcabard. We spent weeks working up strategies and attempts until one day we finally downed him. At the time, I was one of 5 Monks that the linkshell babied, so to speak, we had every buff imaginable and all got to 2 Hour on the ShadowLord at the same time, it was probably the most incredible 20-30 seconds ever. I actually felt at that time I had "beaten" the game, it was the best sense of personal accomplishment I've ever got from a video game because of all the hard work we had all put into it.

Now with FFXIV coming out, I hope with all I am, that I get to experience some form of both of these memories within the game. Where you turn from a complete newb, lost as all ****, into an accomplished "oldbie". But if I was going to stand here and tell you that the FFXI community didn't change over the past 10 years, I'd be lying - it definitely did, sometimes in good ways and sometimes in bad ways. Towards the end, admittedly it was much harder to find good groups if you weren't completely geared out (especially at 75, MNK with no merits and less than 20% haste? no thanks).
____________________________
"I'm gonna get nice and drunk, then play video games until my eyes bleed." Charlie (It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia)
#36 Aug 03 2010 at 10:21 PM Rating: Decent
*
52 posts
Man, some of the things I've read here really make me wish I'd have tried FFXI more, though again I just feel bad I hadn't tried it earlier. I'd have been so willing to be taught by people if I knew the majority of them were willing to teach, though I was under this very heavy impression that they wouldn't even be willing to do that, possibly due to other experiences in other games. And if I could've found some people who'd have been as fun to play with as some of the guys you talk about, instead of how it happened... well, I dunno.

But it's pretty late for that. Right now, I should focus on XIV and having fun with it. I can just wait for the next couple months and meet some cool people here, then get off to a great start and have a ton of fun for a long time, I'm sure. I guess I'll always, in the back of my mind, though, wish that I'd have been able to experience FFXI. Maybe sometime in the future I'll be able to go back to it and see all the little pieces of story and whatnot that'd fill out that one Final Fantasy entry I was never able to truly experience.

And maybe "elitist" isn't the right term, as many people have pointed out here; it's just a broad term for people who "think they're so good that they can't even HELP OUT someone who isn't as experienced as them". Maybe "*******" would be a better term, hahaha.
#37 Aug 03 2010 at 10:41 PM Rating: Good
**
327 posts
I like these stories... it was experiences like these that made me fall in love with FFXI right away.

When I first logged in, not understanding how to chat or move, my best friend who had been playing gave me a quick tour, gave me some gil to get equipped but had to leave when I got outside of town. Remaining independent, I tried to get the hang of not dying to rabbits, when a random female elvaan starts curing me. I was so untrusting, not able to understand why a perfect stranger would help me out. When she said she didn't want to see me keep dying over and over, I was floored with kindness.

Latter in levels, I was timid about going to the dunes as I was told to by many people. I got a random /tell, asking if I was new, and did I want help. A couple came and started escorting me around the world, getting me the first 3 key items from the local Crags. I got to see Bastok and Windurst, which I figured I'd never see for a long while under my own power. They explained how Jeuno worked, and how to make gil. And then, the guy who I still to this day refer to as my "Mentor", formed a dune level party, then replaced himself with me, coaching me how to be a great puller. To this day, I love pulling, on any job.

I set out into FFXI with a mentality to help people, especially the new.. the ones who had potential, and an aptitude to learn. The Mentor system was kinda janky, but I liked the idea. I loved helping people out, just to see the light go on in their head once they "got it"!
____________________________

FFXI - LordDVS <Bismarck> BLU75 DRK75 SAM75 BST75 PLD75


#38 Aug 04 2010 at 1:21 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
224 posts
Quote:
If anything else, people were often willing to help that they'd just go off on a diatribe about different sh*t you didn't even ask about. You'd learn a lot but eventually you'd want them to shut up and were too nice to say anything about it :)



This sounds like me. Often I'd ramble on with what I assume is helpful information, only to realize later that the person hadn't responded for ten minutes. Meh, onward I go.
#39 Aug 04 2010 at 1:31 AM Rating: Decent
****
9,526 posts
yeah the whole idea of relationships was always what sold me on FFXI.

FFXVI will be a fresh start for everyone, and I am looking forward to it.
#40 Aug 04 2010 at 5:16 AM Rating: Decent
**
331 posts
FFXI is the only MMO I've played and I have to say I was very impressed with most of the players. Generally they were very helpful and friendly.
Yeah, there were idiots, but they could just be ignored.

I did the usual things first day......couldn't move, couldn't get out of the mog house, etc.
On my first day I asked someone how to use the auction house and he told me to open my item menu and bought a crystal off me for 50,000g! Unfortunately, I didn't realise what he had done until 2 days later when I wondered where all that money came from.
It had a huge impact on me and when I got to a higher level I tried to help others too, even if it was just curing or raising as I ran through somewhere or giving them old armour I didn't need anymore.

Basically, act like the real world. If you're polite and friendly to others you'll have a much more enjoyable game. Act like a prat and people will treat you like a prat.
#41 Aug 04 2010 at 6:00 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
811 posts
I was always impressed by everyone I met in FFXI. I started as a RDM and pretty much solo'ed to level 20. When I started to group up in Qufim... I didn't really know what I was doing or what my role was. By the time I hit Yhoator Jungle I still didn't know what I was doing. I remember a party where a few people were helping me by telling my what spells to cast on the monsters, and how to buff our own party. It was nice to get helpful feedback instead of them calling me dumb or a noob, even though admittedly I was.

After switching my main job to whm, I remember needing my whm AF body armor. Any whm knows what a hard fight this was back in the day. Impossible to solo, and most NA's on the server weren't very high level yet. A high level BLM I had never met before brought along a few of his friends and we beat the NM in Fei'yin. I was so happy and thankful to finally look like a real whm with my candy cane armor. Years later I saw him running around Whitegate all the time. I always sent him tells thanking him for his help all those years ago. He probably found it really annoying and regretted helping me because I was being so annoying all the time. I always made it a priority to help as many people as I could to 'pay it forward'. I always found it rewarding to help a little taru finish a quest and watch them dance around in pleasure.

I spent many nights guarding the Selbina gates and the Crawler's Nest entrance before the MPK patch to help people out. Those were good times. This is the kind of place I remember Vana'Diel to be, a place where everyone helped each other out against the forces of evil.

I wouldn't think highly of anyone in Eorzea if they are going around bragging about their accomplishments in FFXI or WoW. I don't want to see "Do it this way because I was a max level Monk in FFXI therefore I know more than you". Those sorts of people I hope check their egos at the door. It was the same when I would group with people in the dunes levelling up subjobs or new classes, and there were always those people who insisted on telling everyone in the party how many level 75 jobs they had. It's not needed. If they had cured cancer I would have been impressed.

I'm really looking forward to joining a brand new community and watching everyone around me adventure and explore new things.

#42 Aug 04 2010 at 7:15 AM Rating: Decent
11 posts
I really hope too that there wont be any elitist "i played FFXI for years..blah blah..blah" stuff going on.

I tried FFXI a long way back and didnt last very long as i just couldnt stand the controls...think i went back to EQ feeling pretty dissapointed.

All the forums i browse these days for the new game seem to be chock full of FFXI players (understandable)who know this and that and often i feel a bit saddened that i never really got into it.

I just hope that i dont get the feeling of being a second class citizen when FFXIV launches because of it.
#43 Aug 04 2010 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good
***
2,120 posts
Zendarion wrote:
I really hope too that there wont be any elitist "i played FFXI for years..blah blah..blah" stuff going on.

I tried FFXI a long way back and didnt last very long as i just couldnt stand the controls...think i went back to EQ feeling pretty dissapointed.

All the forums i browse these days for the new game seem to be chock full of FFXI players (understandable)who know this and that and often i feel a bit saddened that i never really got into it.

I just hope that i dont get the feeling of being a second class citizen when FFXIV launches because of it.


Shouldn't be much of an issue. People would be dumb to try pulling rank in a game that just came out. And with so many options available, if you happen to run into such a douche you can easily say "Well, I don't need this party, see ya."
#44 Aug 04 2010 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
*
52 posts
Zendarion wrote:

All the forums i browse these days for the new game seem to be chock full of FFXI players (understandable)who know this and that and often i feel a bit saddened that i never really got into it.


hahaha, I think that little statement right there sums up everything I feel about the situation more than I could have. It's almost like I'm more upset that I didn't play FFXI far more than I did, than upset over what FFXIV may be like. I'm not even worried about that anymore, but I still just feel all bad that I can't share all these great FFXI experiences and stories, you know? And I don't guess it'd be worth it to do it for two months at the very end here, lol---though I know it'll keep going even after XIV's out, it's just... yeah.
#45 Aug 04 2010 at 9:47 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
4,775 posts
FFXI players will definitely be calling the shots. Slang terms from FFXI are sure to be used in FFXIV as well. I don't think the term lalafel will ever catch on and people will use Tarutaru. None of this should be a surprise considering the impact WoW and other MMO's have on other games too. That being the case, you shouldn't have much of a problem playing the game. FFXI was a chore to play until you got past the learning curve until years later when SE offered more assistance. I don't think FFXIV will face these issues though. I wouldn't worry about any of this stuff. The only thing that worries me are the game specs. :P
#46 Aug 04 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Good
Sage
****
6,470 posts
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
FFXI players will definitely be calling the shots. Slang terms from FFXI are sure to be used in FFXIV as well. I don't think the term lalafel will ever catch on and people will use Tarutaru. None of this should be a surprise considering the impact WoW and other MMO's have on other games too.


I dunno. "Taru" has already pretty much fallen into disuse here on the ZAM XIV boards. I don't see any reason it should be any different in-game. Using old and irrelevant terminology will be cumbersome for communicating, as too many wouldn't know what you're talking about. Combine that with the fact that you'll be surrounded by the game's new terminology, and I think you'll find that even the most hardcore FFXI players will adopt the new words.

Now, un-official slang like "mob" and such...I'd wager those'll continue. The WoW crowd still has WoW, so I doubt a massive influx of those players will cause their terminology to hold sway. Most people adapt to that stuff quickly enough, anyway.

Edited, Aug 4th 2010 12:40pm by Eske
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#47 Aug 04 2010 at 10:39 AM Rating: Decent
**
621 posts
Eske wrote:

Speaking of...did Aurelius leave? Haven't seen him around in a while.


Happy days
____________________________
Kweh?!

...prophesizing the golden patch since october 2010.
#48 Aug 04 2010 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
Guru
***
1,673 posts
I played XI for a year I think. Met some great people and had a blast. I couldn't keep up with them so I got left behind and then couldn't find parties to level. I wish I would have stayed with it. Looking forward to XIV as it will be a fresh start with new things to learn and new friends to make.
#49 Aug 04 2010 at 10:59 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
441 posts
I dunno... gonna be kinda difficult to break habit of calling em "Mithra" or "Taru" etc.

Unfortunatly, there's gonna be some of those people that have a group of people already ready to xp hardcore 16 hours a day- 7 days a week until they get maximum level within a week just for bragging rights (as if anyone really cares about that sort of thing). Im gonna try each job out for a while and see what fits me, so far im kinda shooting for a pugilist, but maurader is starting to click with me also (mainly cause the armor/weapons look good, and seeing a mithra with a big axe is an awesome sight)
____________________________
“Big jobs usually go to the men who prove their ability to outgrow small ones.”
Theodore Roosevelt

“Between men and women there is no friendship possible. There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship.”
Oscar Wilde

#50 Aug 04 2010 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Call it elitism, but I'd prefer to think of it as being a good mentor. I'll make you work for my assistance in the end


It's not elitism, after awhile it was easy to distinguish between the ppl that genuinely needed help and the lazy f@#%$.

Quote:
It had a huge impact on me and when I got to a higher level I tried to help others too, even if it was just curing or raising as I ran through somewhere or giving them old armour I didn't need anymore.


My first FFXI memory is getting beat down by a worm in Ronfaure when passing RDM stopped to heal me until the worm was dead. It was the coolest thing anyone had ever done for me in an MMO so after that I did my best to help ppl out when I could. I remember helping with a ridiculous amount of subjob quests while camping VE and seeing newbs getting smoked by ghouls...and I helped every time because when I was a newb someone helped me after seeing me getting smoked by ghouls :)

Quote:
The second was about 12~16 months later, I was a 75MNK in a Dynamis linkshell, the first on our server to be competitive enough to down the Shadow Lord in Dynamis-Xarcabard. We spent weeks working up strategies and attempts until one day we finally downed him. At the time, I was one of 5 Monks that the linkshell babied, so to speak, we had every buff imaginable and all got to 2 Hour on the ShadowLord at the same time, it was probably the most incredible 20-30 seconds ever. I actually felt at that time I had "beaten" the game, it was the best sense of personal accomplishment I've ever got from a video game because of all the hard work we had all put into it.


This reminded me of my very first Dynamis run. The leader set me as main heal/leader of his "problem" party, which basically was 2 SAMs, a DRG and 2 RNGs that were all suicidal. They had a competition as to who could spike the most damage and die first with every pull. Not knowing this, I was freaking out because at least one and a few times up to 4 ppl in my party would go down every pull. Midway through the run everyone was laughing at me over vent, basically they were just hazing the new guy. I always remeber that because though it was a semi serious type thing ppl were still able to ***** around and have fun.

Edited, Aug 4th 2010 11:45am by SkinwalkerAsura
#51 Aug 04 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Excellent
*
205 posts
Even though this is only a sample of the whole of the Final Fantasy community, you can see that they're very supportive and helpful. True, there are a few people out there that have an "elistist" attitude and it's something that is just going to happen really. However, you can definitely take note of who they are and just be mindful of their activities with you or your group. One thing about the Final Fantasy community is that it is very interconnected. Once you start to get a reputation, good or bad, it'll never leave you.

I think that with all our adventuring, we tend to forget the steps that brought us to the character we currently play, and the struggles that we've had to endure. Thus sometimes we just assume that things should be known, when in reality it took some time to engrave those skills into what seems like a reflex now.

FFXIV will be no different. It'll have it's good with it's bad. But at least be assured that what you see here is reflective of the community that is going to be in FFXIV, just as it was in FFXI.
____________________________
It's not who we are, but what we do that define us. - Batman Begins

« Previous 1 2
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 14 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (14)