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Auction Houses - Local vs GlobalFollow

#1 Aug 02 2010 at 3:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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So, I was reading a thread on another forum discussing cities for higher level players, like Jeuno, then Whitegate, which essentially housed all the top level players.

The concern was that when you have cities like those, most players tend to gravitate towards them, which then leaves some of the starter cities feel empty, less alive. It also causes issues where certain areas, i.e. Whitegate, are crowded due to masses of players congregating in one location.

I realize that early on in the MMO life, this shouldn't be too much of a concern, simply due to the fact that there will be many new players who start off in those cities before migrating to a higher level town, should one exist in FFXIV, which I assume there will be.

What wasn't discussed in that thread, is what I felt was one of the main drivers causing that behavior - the Auction House. At this point in time, other than retainers, we don't know exactly how this will work, but I'm sure we'll have a centralized auction house / marketplace system. In FFXI, each starting system had their own Auction House, that maybe one outland area was tied to, i.e. Rabao was tied to Bastok.

Since Jeuno and Whitegate were connected, and that's where the majority of players were, the majority of commerce was within that Auction House. And given the competition on that auction house, similar items were cheaper there then in a starting cities auction house (if there were even there at all). When leveling new jobs and going back to starter cities, you couldn't really buy your low level stuff from starter cities (assuming you didn't keep that stuff, which I didn't) and would constantly be going back and forth.

My preference would be to have one common marketplace that's accessible from all locations offering that service. I think that would help balance the population from residing in one area and make it easier for when you're in starter cities, you don't have to run back to a "Whitegate" because you forgot some sneak oils, thus taking another 10 minutes of time. I can't tell you how many times that happened while playing, and it would be nice to not have to in FFXIV.

Thoughts?

Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 5:26pm by KnocturnalOne
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#2 Aug 02 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Since there are no AHs and only bazaars, I can't really see all the cities being connected.
#3 Aug 02 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't think that has been confirmed? If so, can you share more details?

And, if there were only bazaars, they would be spread out all over the place unless you had some centralized way to search for them.

My post was two fold: 1) Mitigating issues of people all congregating in one location & 2) the need for a centralized system that is not tied to the one or few locations.

Curious to see how this will play out.
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#4 Aug 02 2010 at 3:39 PM Rating: Good
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I also think there should be one global AH system for the whole game, everyone can access this AH from all cities. However, I think this probably won't help much with the starter cities being empty in later stage of the game.

I think every game has a life span, especially for MMOs, and it's still way too early to worry about that for FFXIV when it's not even released yet. There are too many uncertain elements about this game and no one can say/predict what is going to happen in the future.

Personally, I think people usually would reside in the city that's closest to their quests areas. It really wouldn't make sense for people to group up in a city A for a quest, then they have to take the airship to city B, then change another airship to City C, then run across two maps, passed an outpost (mini city), and then run across one more map to get to the quest area. They could've just stayed at the outpost and look for a party there if they're planning to do this quest.

On the other hand, if FFXIV has wrap points at all quest areas, all you have to do is someone in your party has been to this wrap point before, and everyone can just teleport there right away, then it doesn't really matter which city you're in.
#5 Aug 02 2010 at 3:55 PM Rating: Good
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I definitely love the idea of a universal auction house. I've never understood why MMOs like to separate them so much, like by-town or by-faction or by-anything. Even from a roleplaying sense, even if your character would realistically not want to help the commerce of some opposing faction or whatever, I think the need for goods exceeds any feeling like that, and it makes sense for a single neutral merchant faction/auction house thing to exist between all other factions... like an in-game eBay or Amazon.com :3

Yeah though, having one auctionhouse could make monopolizing easier in some ways, but I don't care. It'd just be so convenient, I'd love to see it work that way.
#6 Aug 02 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Default
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I don't see a global AH helping solve that problem. Just look at Lower Jeuno. The same AH was available there as in Upper Jeuno, Port Jeuno, and Ru'Lude Gardens. All of the zones had mog houses, chocobos (except Ru'Lude), etc, and there was no real reason to be in Lower Jeuno, except that everyone else was in Lower Jeuno. The only reason I can think of is that the AH was very slightly closer to the MH than in some of the other zones. Other than that, there was nothing remarkable about it.

Also, I don't know that it's desirable to have people more or less evenly spread out, even if it were possible. Annoying and full of /sh spam as it might be, LJ was always the place you could go to get a teleport, or to do some hilarious trolling ("OMG THE GODDAM GERMANS BOMBED PERL HARBER Y DO THEY GET 2 PLAY OUR GAME?!!1").

Ideally, the solution would be to have Square give players the ability to effectively find what they need without having to be in any one area, whether that's crafters, teleports, or whatever else might be needed in the new game. We'll see how they do.

And personally I like EVE's take on how to run an economy: separate markets by areas, but allow the player to search all of them (or all of the close ones? I don't remember exactly how it worked) for the best price and determine whether it's worth it to go 15 minutes out of your way to find something for 50% off.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 6:07pm by khorbin
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#7 Aug 02 2010 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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Although AH placement might have some influence in which area people frequent I think the main reason is acessability, in FFXI Jeuno was the first choice because being in the middle of the continebt it would be considered as the central town and as such being closest to the majority of camps. This could also be explained by habit, once people finished in Valkrum Dunnes they would usually move on to Jeuno to access Quifim Island and once that was over move to what I think should have been the Mitra homeland (can't remember the name) by airship. Since players would now be so used to be in Jeuno and be in easy reach to a great number of areas close to their level thay would usually just stay there.

In Wow this acessability was even more prominant with the release of the Burning Crusade. With immediate access to any of the starter towns of your faction this became the central hub for the comunity.
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#8 Aug 02 2010 at 4:31 PM Rating: Default
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square has talked about the aetherytes being where people gather - trying to get people out of the habit of crowding around the cities.
#9 Aug 02 2010 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
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I think trying to disperse crowds is gonna be pretty hard, because half the reason people tended to crowd certain areas, was because of the other people there. That's why lower jeuno was so popular when the other sides of jeuno all had the same facilities for the most part.

I'm not sure about everyone else, but I went there as opposed to the other zones because you never knew what you were gonna see a shout for. Pick-up BCNMs, people who happen to be on the same missions as you, buyers/sellers for specific items that interest you, and a number of other things. It was just more interesting and lively than upper jeuno.

If they want to break up the crowds, I think the best way is to accept that people will tend to crowd certain areas, but to manage the crowding of the specific parts of that area. A good example is whitegate, it was much more open than jeuno, and other than the AH and MH, players tended to be much more spread out. That whole large room that connected to the main entrance always had lots of people, and they weren't nearly as clumped together as in lower jeuno. But they could have made it even more evenly distributed had they have added an additional AH access located away from the main one.

But all in all, people just like to hang out where other people are. It's a natural tendency. Trying to spread it out with artificial, arbitrary means is just going to slightly irritate people. You gotta give them a genuine incentive to be somewhere else, otherwise they will just go to where the action is because it's the place to be.

Lastly, I'm not sure what SE's ultimate plan is as far as an AH system goes. It seems like they want to use bazaars now, but whether or not they will incorporate a central search function for those bazaars is still unclear. As is the possibility of an AH. I think we just have to wait until the game comes out to figure that one out. I think it will be a decent system though, it's not like SE is deliberately trying to give players a hard time. If whatever they go with doesn't work as they intend, they will likely address it so that it does. And I'm pretty sure they still intend for players to be able to make exchanges with other players without a lot of trouble, so I don't feel it's something we should be too concerned with just yet. And who knows, maybe they will make a new system that works much better than the old one... I remember hearing someone mention something about a chocobo delivery system for example... I would not be opposed to that lol. xD
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#10 Aug 02 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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With no auction house and only a Bazaar, it's basically taking a step in the wrong direction.

Not everyone has the time or patience to sit there and check for retainers. It's a huge waste of time, for something that should be trivial in any MMOs nowadays. The only game I have played in the last 10 years, that did not have an auction house was Eq1. And I've played EQ2, FFXI, WoW, and Aion.

Now I have no idea how the retainer system works, but having no auction house is not the best idea. They will surely lose players to this, unless the system of retainers/bazaar actually works, which we won't know until release. But it will be much more of a pain nonetheless.

So here's hoping they do implement one.
#11 Aug 02 2010 at 5:12 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree with a lot of points made so far. A couple things that to respond with:

1) I think it's evident SE wants to scale back on crowding, like in Whitegate, since the retainers can be used while you're logged off - the purpose here is to minimize server congestion. I think that, in whole, also applies to crowded areas, but I could be wrong

2) Lower Jeuno was typically more crowded than the rest given the AH close proximity to the Mog House.

Lastly, for those that played pre-Whitegate, Jueno was nearly a ghost town the last few years. Whitegate is where everybody gathered, was often extremely crowded, congested, etc. Try doing a besieged, I usually couldn't complete one as my 360 would lag out - and was really annoying because it wouldn't do so towards the end and I would lose my XP received for completing it lol.

I think I would just like to see starter cities retain some of that luster later on in the game. They became a moot point in FFXI (IMO) later in the game. They could have tied in latter parts of the expansion stories into those cities, too.

Just food for thought, not a huge nuisance, but more things for them to consider should they be lurking these boards for suggestions.
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#12 Aug 02 2010 at 5:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
With no auction house and only a Bazaar, it's basically taking a step in the wrong direction.


Followed by:

Quote:
Now I have no idea how the retainer system works


Amazing. SquareEnix is surely missing out on an asset by not hiring you instantly for these pearls of wisdom.


</sarcasm>
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#13 Aug 02 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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What if you could search globally for items on the AH, but if an item is being sold in another town, you have to pay a small delivery fee and you don't get the item right away, it takes like 10 minutes to get there.

I know everyone hates gil sinks, but this seems like a valid one. Either you go to the region yourself and buy the item (time sink) , or you have it delivered to you for a fee (gil sink).
#14 Aug 02 2010 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
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khorbin wrote:
. . .And personally I like EVE's take on how to run an economy: separate markets by areas, but allow the player to search all of them (or all of the close ones? I don't remember exactly how it worked) for the best price and determine whether it's worth it to go 15 minutes out of your way to find something for 50% off.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 6:07pm by khorbin


THIS.

The more you automate a game the more you make it into numbers and less into a virtual world.

WoW has a hugely shared AH, very easy to search, and people love it. But I would rather have separate areas. (though I want those areas to still be easy to search) Why do I want to create more "busy" work for myself?

You have to remember that what one person considers busy-work in an MMO is another person's game. Some pure-crafters will consider the combat to be busy-work, necessary to get the drops they need on the cheap. Many DoW will consider repairing busy-work, something they have to put up with before killing again. I've always liked exercising the RL skill of bargain hunting and staying up to date on the value of an item. An MMO should be so much more than just the numbers and min/maxing. "I want it NOAW and I want the LOWEST price, more or less AUTOMATICALLY" is, in my opinion, missing out. People who are too lazy or don't know how to find a good deal shouldn't have to be coddled by a system that makes it "shopping for dummies."

There is pride to be taken in the small unmeasured skills that make a person a truly great player. Knowing the markets, always finding a good way to attack the monster from behind, never losing aggro as a tank, getting the timing down *just* right to mine/fish/whatever the highest quality goods...

Cyiode wrote:
What if you could search globally for items on the AH, but if an item is being sold in another town, you have to pay a small delivery fee and you don't get the item right away, it takes like 10 minutes to get there.

I know everyone hates gil sinks, but this seems like a valid one. Either you go to the region yourself and buy the item (time sink) , or you have it delivered to you for a fee (gil sink).


THIS TOO! I would like this.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 7:59pm by Tweezle120

Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 8:00pm by Tweezle120
#15 Aug 02 2010 at 6:41 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
square has talked about the aetherytes being where people gather - trying to get people out of the habit of crowding around the cities.


Why? The city is and has always been the main hub for people in-game and out in the real world.
"Hay guyz letz go hangs out by teh crystal thing"

I don't think so.
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#16 Aug 02 2010 at 6:51 PM Rating: Decent
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The purpose is to avoid crowding and server congestion in areas. Think of it like "load balancing" I guess lol.
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#17 Aug 02 2010 at 6:54 PM Rating: Excellent
Papanurf wrote:
Quote:
With no auction house and only a Bazaar, it's basically taking a step in the wrong direction.


Followed by:

Quote:
Now I have no idea how the retainer system works


Amazing. SquareEnix is surely missing out on an asset by not hiring you instantly for these pearls of wisdom.


</sarcasm>


Disagreeing is one thing, but we could all do without the flaming.
#18 Aug 02 2010 at 8:55 PM Rating: Decent
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sorry, no time to read all the replies
1 quick point here

i think it's great they DID NOT have universal AHs. WHY?
because that will kill the purposes for nations/regional vendors. ppl l not just go to the nations for the syn thing in the guild, but also for the cheaper prices for the raw materials. if ppl could buy stuff off the AH and just resell it on the Universal AH, i personally would think it will kill the purose of it and also some players make gil by buying from vendors and reselling on AH too.
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#19 Aug 02 2010 at 10:05 PM Rating: Good
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Mostaru wrote:
sorry, no time to read all the replies
1 quick point here

i think it's great they DID NOT have universal AHs. WHY?
because that will kill the purposes for nations/regional vendors. ppl l not just go to the nations for the syn thing in the guild, but also for the cheaper prices for the raw materials. if ppl could buy stuff off the AH and just resell it on the Universal AH, i personally would think it will kill the purose of it and also some players make gil by buying from vendors and reselling on AH too.


Not too sure I am following your point. In FFXI, there was essentially one AH that people used - the Jeuno / Whitegate AH. Why? Because starter cities, while having their own AH, had no items for sale, and if they did, they were completely overpriced so everyone used the Jeuno/Whitegate auctions 98% of the time.

This caused inconvenience by having to travel back there if you forgot something, but you were in your hometown. I think it also contributed to overcrowding in WG (but certainly not the only reason).

Can you elaborate a little more?
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#20 Aug 03 2010 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
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Cyiode wrote:

What if you could search globally for items on the AH, but if an item is being sold in another town, you have to pay a small delivery fee and you don't get the item right away, it takes like 10 minutes to get there.

I know everyone hates gil sinks, but this seems like a valid one. Either you go to the region yourself and buy the item (time sink) , or you have it delivered to you for a fee (gil sink.


Pretty much what I was thinking when I started reading this thread, but to add to this would be to have both bazaars and auction houses. Bazaars could be local in the town and have a search NPC to tell you where the items are being sold (or a way to buy through the NPC directly). Then in the larger cities there could be auction houses.
The difference being whar Cyiode mentioned above but also there being a fee & commission to use AH, but no fee for a bazaar. (Selling.)

In this way there is a trade off of cost versus target market.

Personally I like the idea of there being bazaars to browse around if you like, it has a much more people community feel, but it would need a form of being able to search at the very least, if not actually being able to buy direct.

People talk about immersion and I think that this would add to it. But there should be an option for convenience too.

I like the idea of being able to pick a favourite spot and have regular customers.
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#21 Aug 03 2010 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
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KnocturnalOne wrote:
Not too sure I am following your point. Can you elaborate a little more?


Sure.
For each guilds and regional vendor in the particular nation, they often have the cheapest prices for their items in the whole vana'diel. For example, flours in the Culinarian Guild, you might find them in sandoria too, but the prices could be more expensive and even more expensive in Bastok. Some crafters buy the raw materials from the starting cities AH because they are already there BUT the materials are no longer available there. If you went to windurst to get the sync support and also try to get materials from guild, but they are no longer available. what's the first thing you are going to do? --> check the Windurst AH. and think of it this way, if I'm in Bastok and they share the same AH with windurst, it reduces the chance for you to pay a visit to Windurst and check their vendors, meaning you wouldnt care to go there unless you want to do quests and stuff there.
And what does it have to do with the resellers? if the flours are 10G from the guild in Windurst. I could bring them to Bastok and could sell for 50 or 100G (it may not be profitable considering the time you spend running around, but low levels need any income possible). why does the Bastokans buy it for 50G? because they are lazy to head to Windurst, or they didnt know or didnt even care the original cost, or to make it more simple, there are no supplies available in Bastok.

And you might argue, if there is an universal AH, i could sell my stuff vana'diel-wide!
well, going back to my point, that will kill the purpose of the vendors, if i can buy it anywhere, what's the point of the vendors being there, i dont really have a point heading to the starting nations for the lower cost (starting nation's AH usually have lower prices because of the Tax on Jeuno AH).
At a seller's point of view, if the universal AH charge me a certain amount of Tax for my cheap commodities, I don't even want to bother selling them on AH and instead go kill some goblins for gils.

I think the local AH has enough of items up for sale when i was still in game (back in like 3-4 years ago lol). players just dont have time nowadays to go back to the starting cities and sell their low level gears and such, they dont care about that 1 to 2K differences on equipments, and think its not worth it considering the time you have to spend to go back there and buy it or sell it. and simply wants a faster transactions on AH (also slot-wise), since Jeuno/WG AH could possibly have your items sold 5 to 10x faster.

hope you get my point there :)
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#22 Aug 03 2010 at 8:28 PM Rating: Decent
I like local auction houses. Without them, localized goods become unnecessary, and without localized goods, the economy will feel shallow and sucky; yes sucky. With that being said, I think they could implement a much better system than the one that exists in FFXI. They did a half ***** job and I know they can do better.

Bring on the local auction houses!
#23 Aug 04 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Good
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I liked the way it was done in SWG.

You could do a local..global..or if you preffered, galactic search, to see what was available but if you found the item you wanted was in another area to where you were now you had to go and fetch it.

Sometimes i would travel to another planet if the item i wanted was much cheaper there...crazy really hehe but fun.
#24 Aug 04 2010 at 8:57 AM Rating: Good
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I haven't seen anything posted that there will be an AH. Does anyone have info on this?
#25 Aug 04 2010 at 9:29 AM Rating: Decent
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geffe wrote:
I haven't seen anything posted that there will be an AH. Does anyone have info on this?


I don't believe there is any information out there beyond the retainer system. I would find it hard to believe they won't have an auction house system, just the searching and regionalization details of it are unknown.

I assume once the NDA is lifted from BETA we will have more details to chew on.
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#26 Aug 04 2010 at 9:34 AM Rating: Good
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There will be much rejoicing throughout the land when the NDA is lifted, by those bound by it and those not bound.

Also, SE needs to give us more info regarding the system too. Unless, they themselves are still unsure of how it will work.
#27 Aug 04 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
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People need to stop looking at FFXIV as if it's FFXI, if it has a bazaar system it won't be like FFXI. There maybe no need for an AH because there may not be anything like as many sellable items, I doubt they would go the way they did in FFXI again since it was an amazing boon to RMT having such an easily abused farming system.

FFXIV is a game aimed at a more casual audience, faming gil was never something to attract that kind of player. They may even make gil far far less important on 14, given how rabidly anti RMT Square are can you see them making gil as important and fueling that whole can of worms all over again.
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#28 Aug 04 2010 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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Gil makes the world go round.

As long as there is crafting, people will have stuff to sell and they set the price. Unless you make your own armor and weapons, you have to buy them somewhere.
#29 Aug 04 2010 at 12:07 PM Rating: Decent
I really hope they do global its makes more sense and will make it much easier for gamers. It would also stop everyone from meeting in 1 city.
#30 Aug 04 2010 at 1:25 PM Rating: Decent
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I am all for a global Auction House, it keeps everything even and you dont get punished for being in a less popular starting city.
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#31 Aug 04 2010 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Mostaru wrote:


Sure.
For each guilds and regional vendor in the particular nation, they often have the cheapest prices for their items in the whole vana'diel. For example, flours in the Culinarian Guild, you might find them in sandoria too, but the prices could be more expensive and even more expensive in Bastok. Some crafters buy the raw materials from the starting cities AH because they are already there BUT the materials are no longer available there. If you went to windurst to get the sync support and also try to get materials from guild, but they are no longer available. what's the first thing you are going to do? --> check the Windurst AH. and think of it this way, if I'm in Bastok and they share the same AH with windurst, it reduces the chance for you to pay a visit to Windurst and check their vendors, meaning you wouldnt care to go there unless you want to do quests and stuff there.
And what does it have to do with the resellers? if the flours are 10G from the guild in Windurst. I could bring them to Bastok and could sell for 50 or 100G (it may not be profitable considering the time you spend running around, but low levels need any income possible). why does the Bastokans buy it for 50G? because they are lazy to head to Windurst, or they didnt know or didnt even care the original cost, or to make it more simple, there are no supplies available in Bastok.

And you might argue, if there is an universal AH, i could sell my stuff vana'diel-wide!
well, going back to my point, that will kill the purpose of the vendors, if i can buy it anywhere, what's the point of the vendors being there, i dont really have a point heading to the starting nations for the lower cost (starting nation's AH usually have lower prices because of the Tax on Jeuno AH).
At a seller's point of view, if the universal AH charge me a certain amount of Tax for my cheap commodities, I don't even want to bother selling them on AH and instead go kill some goblins for gils.

I think the local AH has enough of items up for sale when i was still in game (back in like 3-4 years ago lol). players just dont have time nowadays to go back to the starting cities and sell their low level gears and such, they dont care about that 1 to 2K differences on equipments, and think its not worth it considering the time you have to spend to go back there and buy it or sell it. and simply wants a faster transactions on AH (also slot-wise), since Jeuno/WG AH could possibly have your items sold 5 to 10x faster.

hope you get my point there :)


I got your point, but I'm wondering if it is really a big deal or not.
Your point may be valid if City A is the only place that sells certain mats, or it's cheaper than other cities. But what if all cities have vendors selling the same kinds of mats? Even if the price is different, as long as the vendor price is not too much different, then I don't think people would actually spend time in City A, but 10 of X items for 10gil each, then resell it on the AH for 15gil each. You may get more money from killing mobs and sell the loots.

With a Global AH, I can see numbers of benefits especially to players in the early stage. For example, let's say there's a mob that would drop some low level swords outside of city A since there's a Gladiator guild in city A. While a mob would drop low level spears outside of city B since there's a Lancer guild in city B. If I started as a Lancer in city B, and then I wanted to switch to Gladiator, now I have two choices to get a Gladiator weapon, 1) buy it from a weapon vendor in city B which may cost like 1000gil, or 2) look up a low level sword on AH, players in city A may get some extra swords since they may have killed numbers of mob that drops swords. So they may want to sell some extra swords on the AH for 500gil or otherwise they'll have to vendor it for 200gil. Now we have a win-win situation. (but of course, that's only valid IF mobs in different areas drops different type of weapons/items)
#32 Aug 04 2010 at 5:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I know there were people that made money from buying goods from one nation and then selling them in another because there vendors didn't carry the same goods which for some was a good way to make income. However by doing that often times people would drive up the prices to stupid ammounts which was just greedy and in my opinion made the economy so crappy on FFXI I know it's about supply and demand but I think doing a global AH would 1. Keep prices down slightly because there would probably be more supply and 2. People wouldn't mind spending more time in starter nations knowing they can buy goods from each nation on there AH. I guess I can see why some people wouldn't like it and others would. It's all on SE though as they haven't released any info on Auction Houses and many other things that I as well as many others want to know about the game.
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#33 Aug 04 2010 at 8:22 PM Rating: Decent
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dunlag wrote:

With a Global AH, I can see numbers of benefits especially to players in the early stage. For example, let's say there's a mob that would drop some low level swords outside of city A since there's a Gladiator guild in city A. While a mob would drop low level spears outside of city B since there's a Lancer guild in city B. If I started as a Lancer in city B, and then I wanted to switch to Gladiator, now I have two choices to get a Gladiator weapon, 1) buy it from a weapon vendor in city B which may cost like 1000gil, or 2) look up a low level sword on AH, players in city A may get some extra swords since they may have killed numbers of mob that drops swords. So they may want to sell some extra swords on the AH for 500gil or otherwise they'll have to vendor it for 200gil. Now we have a win-win situation. (but of course, that's only valid IF mobs in different areas drops different type of weapons/items)


I understand what you mean, but think about it that way. with your example above, a Lancer turned Gladiator in City B loses another reason to go visit City A.
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#34 Aug 04 2010 at 8:49 PM Rating: Decent
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In my internet sleuthing of information on FFXIV, I have come across multiple NDA breaking sources. In one such source, (which I cannot site, for obvious reasons) I have seen a screenshot of portal with the Auction House icon (gavel). The poster of this shot also mentioned that this was NOT where the bazaar zone was, nor was it accessible at that time. I would think it is safe to assume that Auction Houses will be making a return in FFXIV, but we have no way of telling in what capacity.

If I had to make an assumption, I'd say that while you will have a retainer to sell goods for you in a bazaar instance, thereby giving crafters a fee free outlet for their produced goods and establishing a location to acquire Master Crafter X's goods, there will most likely also be an AH with taxable fees to reach a wider customer base and play in the virtual commodity trade game.

Edit: There is a fee for bazaar as well. Here's hoping we get both options however.

Edited, Aug 5th 2010 2:39am by diiablo
#35 Aug 05 2010 at 11:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Mostaru wrote:


I understand what you mean, but think about it that way. with your example above, a Lancer turned Gladiator in City B loses another reason to go visit City A.


True, but that's only if they person can go to City A. I'd never been to Wind until I leveled my second job to like 20 or so (I leveled up my first job to 18, got the item for subjob quest, then level up my subjob to almost 20, then switch back to my first job). In the beginning of the game, people usually stayed at their starting city until they got to certain level.
#36 Aug 05 2010 at 11:38 AM Rating: Decent
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all i can say is i remember san d'oria on opening day of XI, it was rediculous!

i also remember that the concentratrion of players being in Whitegate and Jeuno really only become annoying and prominent within the last 2 years... at least on my servers anyway (Seraph, Odin, Ifrit)

during the first few years of XIV i would go as far as to guarantee that all the starter cities will be buzzing and the higher end cities will be the place to go to (probably for commerce and other stuff) but their will be plent of ppl and plenty to do in the starter cities... dont forget that ppl will still be doing missions and quests etc.

we will see, wont we :)
#37 Aug 05 2010 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
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I actually ran to Sandy from Bastok at around level 12 w/o subjob, I was running for my life in Dunes because I got aggro, i somehow end up in Sandy and bought some souvenirs.

I wasnt really a crafter myself but I always think it is a great idea to keep every zones unique from the others and give ppl reason to visit there.

(if there will be AH in FFIXV - which doesnt seem like it atm) either Local or Global AH will be fine for me in game if there are no taxes, but hopefully the the special vendors will still be useful.
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#38 Aug 05 2010 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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also, another thing i forgot to touch upon

alot of you cite the shouts as a main proponent for people gathering and what not in a certian area...

i always thought it owuld be cool if they did this in XI... just hear me out.

remember the parcel guy at the AH?

imagine if u could have the parcel guy 'send' your shout to another AH of your choice... and then ppl could respond to it via /tell or whatever...

kind of like radio communication in old school fantasy land...

u type ur shout to the dude, he says where would u like to send this information, and by some sort of communication magic, he sends it to the AH or other point of interest of ur choice...

that would mean, in conjunction with everyone esles ideas for a globalized AH, that essentially communication and commerce would be able to be done from anywhere, at any time.

this is a double edged sword though, bc some peole (somewhat myself included) like being a part of the crowd, they like being at the hub... others like to chill in windurst but are screwed bc no one else is there to here them chat or whatever... this will also save so much travel time for ppl that say want to craft near a certain guild while awaiting a party for a BCNM for example... every few minutes they could be fishing off the docks in windy and be sending shouts to whitegate... could be awesome

done rambling
#39 Aug 05 2010 at 1:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Tweezle120 wrote:
khorbin wrote:
. . .And personally I like EVE's take on how to run an economy: separate markets by areas, but allow the player to search all of them (or all of the close ones? I don't remember exactly how it worked) for the best price and determine whether it's worth it to go 15 minutes out of your way to find something for 50% off.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 6:07pm by khorbin


THIS.

The more you automate a game the more you make it into numbers and less into a virtual world.

WoW has a hugely shared AH, very easy to search, and people love it. But I would rather have separate areas. (though I want those areas to still be easy to search) Why do I want to create more "busy" work for myself?

You have to remember that what one person considers busy-work in an MMO is another person's game. Some pure-crafters will consider the combat to be busy-work, necessary to get the drops they need on the cheap. Many DoW will consider repairing busy-work, something they have to put up with before killing again. I've always liked exercising the RL skill of bargain hunting and staying up to date on the value of an item. An MMO should be so much more than just the numbers and min/maxing. "I want it NOAW and I want the LOWEST price, more or less AUTOMATICALLY" is, in my opinion, missing out. People who are too lazy or don't know how to find a good deal shouldn't have to be coddled by a system that makes it "shopping for dummies."

There is pride to be taken in the small unmeasured skills that make a person a truly great player. Knowing the markets, always finding a good way to attack the monster from behind, never losing aggro as a tank, getting the timing down *just* right to mine/fish/whatever the highest quality goods...

[quote=Cyiode]What if you could search globally for items on the AH, but if an item is being sold in another town, you have to pay a small delivery fee and you don't get the item right away, it takes like 10 minutes to get there.

I know everyone hates gil sinks, but this seems like a valid one. Either you go to the region yourself and buy the item (time sink) , or you have it delivered to you for a fee (gil sink).



Ok, at first I did like the idea of a universal AH but these are good points that I have to agree with. I did enjoy shopping around to find the best deal on a item.
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#40 Aug 05 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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Crazy idea:

Like like EVE or other games, allow players to buy something [at any AH] but they have to go pick it up.

Crazier idea:

If they implemented that system it might be interesting to have players take courier missions for other players for gil.

Imagine: you're about to get on the airship/chocobo/other transport method, but before you do, you check the counter by the dock and see all the goods that need to be transported to the city you're heading for. You can carry a certain number of items and take a certain amount of gil per item, possibly set by the buyer, or maybe just a certain percentage of the item's purchase price (part of it maybe goes to the NPC courier service, and the rest to the courier so you get a nice gil sink).

Then after the airship arrives, or you get there by other means, you check in at the counter in the other city and claim your gil. If you don't make it within maybe 30 minutes or whatever, the goods would automatically go to the counter for pickup, but the courier company takes over the delivery and the entire fee is forfeit to them. Maybe you could even set it up so that players could get a higher fee if they make it in under certain time increments like 10 or 20 minutes. The items could be claimed by the buyer at a courier counter, but only after the courier arrived or the time limit expired.

The obvious problem is people picking up the goods and then just sitting on them so you don't get it until the courier quest times out. So maybe you could set up multiple classes of delivery like the USPS. First-class can only be carried if your courier karma is above 90% with 20 completed deliveries, second class, above 50% with 10 completed, and third class by anyone. Maybe make the auto-timeout faster or slower depending on the class of mail as well, but the point is you pay more to ship first class, and the courier in turn gets paid more for being honest.

Think how cool it would be as a level 5 newbie to run a courier mission and be able to carry a k-club or whatever for someone. You'd be telling stories about it for a week. "I got to carry a k-club!"

It would also help people who want to be solely crafters because they wouldn't have to travel to faraway places, which usually means sneaking past big bad monsters.

Thoughts?

Edited, Aug 5th 2010 3:57pm by khorbin
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#41 Aug 05 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
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khorbin wrote:


Crazy idea:

Like like EVE or other games, allow players to buy something [at any AH] but they have to go pick it up.

Crazier idea:

If they implemented that system it might be interesting to have players take courier missions for other players for gil.

Imagine: you're about to get on the airship/chocobo/other transport method, but before you do, you check the counter by the dock and see all the goods that need to be transported to the city you're heading for. You can carry a certain number of items and take a certain amount of gil per item, possibly set by the buyer, or maybe just a certain percentage of the item's purchase price (part of it maybe goes to the NPC courier service, and the rest to the courier so you get a nice gil sink). Then after the airship arrives, or you get there by other means, you check in at the counter in the other city and claim your gil. If you don't make it within maybe 30 minutes or whatever, the goods would automatically go to the counter for pickup, but the courier company takes over the delivery and the entire fee is forfeit to them. Maybe you could even set it up so that players could get a higher fee if they make it in under certain time increments like 10 or 20 minutes. The items could be claimed by the buyer at a courier counter, but only after the courier arrived or the time limit expired.

Think how cool it would be as a level 5 newbie to run a courier mission and be able to carry a k-club or whatever for someone. You'd be telling stories about it for a week. "I got to carry a k-club!"

It would also help people who want to be solely crafters because they wouldn't have to travel to faraway places, which usually means sneaking past big bad monsters.

Thoughts?

Edited, Aug 5th 2010 3:50pm by khorbin


Interesting, but if I have to wait for 10 minutes to get the item I bought from AH, that would be kinda suck...

Maybe in addition to your idea, it'll be better if there's an option that if a player agree to pay an extra fee, they can get the item instantly. So for example, when a player wins a bid from the AH, he then can choose 3 different delivery options: 1) instant delivery if he agreed to pay for 5% extra of what he paid for his item. 2) 10 minutes (or a fairly short amount of time) delivery if he agreed to pay for 3% extra of what he paid for his item, in this case, other players can delivery the item and earn some extra gil. 3) 30 minutes delivery if he agreed to pay for 1% extra for what he paid for his item. Other players can also delivery this item and earn some gil.
#42 Aug 05 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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I dunno if I'd trust some random level 5 newbie to deliver a kraken club for me. There would have to be some sort of restriction where they're delivering a "package" that can only be opened by the intended recipient, and that if the recipient doesn't receive it in a certain timeframe, it expires and the buyer retains the item.
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#43 Aug 05 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Interesting, but if I have to wait for 10 minutes to get the item I bought from AH, that would be kinda suck...

Maybe in addition to your idea, it'll be better if there's an option that if a player agree to pay an extra fee, they can get the item instantly. So for example, when a player wins a bid from the AH, he then can choose 3 different delivery options: 1) instant delivery if he agreed to pay for 5% extra of what he paid for his item. 2) 10 minutes (or a fairly short amount of time) delivery if he agreed to pay for 3% extra of what he paid for his item, in this case, other players can delivery the item and earn some extra gil. 3) 30 minutes delivery if he agreed to pay for 1% extra for what he paid for his item. Other players can also delivery this item and earn some gil.


This is sort of what I was getting at with the "first class, second class, third class" thing. You pay more to have it delivered faster, and if the item isn't delivered (or even not picked up) in a certain amount of time, the NPCs take care of it and you get it right away. Of course you could always go pick it up yourself and not pay a fee, or have someone buy it for you and mail it instantly.

Quote:
I dunno if I'd trust some random level 5 newbie to deliver a kraken club for me. There would have to be some sort of restriction where they're delivering a "package" that can only be opened by the intended recipient, and that if the recipient doesn't receive it in a certain timeframe, it expires and the buyer retains the item.


I thought I made that pretty clear, but must not have. Yeah, that was the idea. Basically, if for any reason the package is not delivered to the courier counter within X minutes, the NPCs take it from the deliverer and it goes straight to the buyer.
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#44 Aug 05 2010 at 7:40 PM Rating: Decent
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To elevate the "Crazier" idea.
I think we should be allowed to search items anywhere in Eorzea, you could bid on the item and choose where you want to pick up.
If the ******* Sword you purchased was put on the Limsa Lominsa AH, and you pick it up from there, there would be no extra charges.
If you are picking it up from a diff AH, you will have to pay 5% of the value of the item
If you want the item to be delivered to your current location, you will have to pay 10% of the value of the item.

The AH bulletin board will have a list of pending deliveries for others to accept and earn the delivery handling charge. The items will be off the list after 5 mins if nobody accept to take the job. Items will be in parcels and you would't know what you are delivering and you have to deliver the parcel to the buyer within 10minutes Earth time.
unsucessful deliveries will send the parcel back to the AH and the buyer would have to pick it up themselves.
Within those 10mins, both parties must be in the exact area for the delivery, if not whoever not there has to be penalized 10000G by the AH.
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#45 Aug 05 2010 at 9:03 PM Rating: Good
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I thought I had heard that they are going for something a lot like the bazar setup in EQ.

Central bazar area, you can search for an item across all the sellers, and then go to the seller and buy from them direct? Or am I totally off my rocker?

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#46 Aug 06 2010 at 8:49 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I thought I had heard that they are going for something a lot like the bazar setup in EQ.

Central bazar area, you can search for an item across all the sellers, and then go to the seller and buy from them direct? Or am I totally off my rocker?


I vaguely remember something like that from EQ2, but I only played that for like a month. Loved the crafting in that game though. When smithing, the forge could blow up and kill you.
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#47 Aug 06 2010 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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That's true. EQ had a searchable Bazaar system. After finding what you wanted you just had to search all the stalls for the correct seller name. Really very easy, but you had to go there physically and there was only one for the entire world.
#48 Aug 07 2010 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I'd rather have global. With local auction houses everybody just crowds into one big city it seems like.
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#49 Aug 07 2010 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, would be nice if all the city AHes were connected.
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#50 Aug 07 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
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I made some nice gil during the first few months of NA release with the local style auction house. Posting spell scrolls and other equipment in starting cities where you can't buy from a vendor. I like to see what SE's final decision will be.
#51 Aug 07 2010 at 12:16 PM Rating: Decent
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I think the panties in here are bunched up a little too tightly. Retainers are like a mobile AH that will be capable of browsing through all the retainers for you. I am sure they are all interconnected, so don't freak out.
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