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#252 Aug 09 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,218 posts
Tweezle120 wrote:
I support a 100% fair contest, which means I also support allowing 1 posters to win. EVEN the one posters who aren't coming back, that's the nature of a fair pubic raffle. What counts is the exposure generated for the site. Anyone fan enough to run around to all the fan sites and sign into all the raffles for a chance are fan enough to do the beta good. (or whoever buys their code is fan enough, though not as smart. And much less evil.)
.


Equality of outcome is not the same as fairness.

There's "fair" in the sense of "I wasn't lied to or taken advantage of" but there's also "fair" in the sense of "What I get back is proportionate to what I've given." One is the fairness of honesty and the other is the fairness of just desserts. You can have both simultaneously, or neither, or just one or the other.

ZAM is in a position to give away beta keys mostly because of the users who drive the site by contributing either their ideas or their cash, or both. Some one who showed up and made a single post has done nothing, literally nothing, to "deserve" the same shot as those who have actually contributed. A 50 post scholar has contributed some thing. A 500 post sage has contributed more. A 5000 post guru has contributed a LOT. It's not unfair to reward them differently.


Edited, Aug 9th 2010 6:09pm by KarlHungis
#253 Aug 09 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
16 posts
If its all about post i can start posting anything, even if thats non sense just to get my post count up ?

I see so many empty posts that have no signification or just wrote so the main poster get ashamed.. How are those a contribution to Zam other than refraining people from posting or starting subject ? How many new posters get received with a "learn to search before posting" instead of an help they are requesting ? I dont think those guys are really inclined to get back to posting once they get hammered with "High lvl" posters.

Now we have a carrot on a stick, forcing people to post to get something we all want, why would one flamer get a better chance than me since most of their post arent to help ?

I think my 2-3 times/day visiting this place worth about the same as many posters, not all, cause i know a couple that are really helping and nice, thanks to those.
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#254 Aug 09 2010 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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770 posts
Honestly as well, Its SE's give away really, Zam cant really say who is elegiable and who isnt. But the multiple posters are going to be delt with so no worries there. The 1 time posters , personally i think should still be elligable. Yeah it kinda sucks too though, but thoes who have been here for forever would be great if it went to them but then would really be a contest. I've been here for a few months i post alot , sometimes not saying anything of intrest or importance. Sometime have valid opinions. Ive been stalkign the forum fora m onth or so before i acually joined, I wanted to reply to sombodys post, cant remember whos honestly. Most of the time was just happy reading. I can see some of teh 1 time posters just ehre to try to get the beta and thats it, In this thread alone though , alot of the 1 time posters started getting more then 1 post. Im sure even though some of them never even posted in hrere but read the other forums. They may not contribute but they are still reading the site and looking at the advertizing on here, Giving zam money if they click on them. (even by accident). soo Other then the sock accounts with Zam Admins will deal with, all should be eligable.

Just my opinion
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#255 Aug 09 2010 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
4 posts
Silverwyrm wrote:
Quote:
:O I'm just stating that people need an equal chance, contributing or not, lol visiting the site and getting the sites view count up is contributing lol. There are many ways to contribute to a website. Posting on the forums is one, I agree, and a huge one. I have just never been a fan of forums. I feel my word isn't as heard as I want it to be, you know? lol. I hope ZAM does reward their long time fans, no doubt about it. But I also feel that posting giveaways like this... well make people come out of their holes and voice what they have to say. Now I'm not bashing you or anything and I don't hate on you for telling me I'm wrong, but be alittle opened minded about this. There are socks granted too many for ZAM to cover, but there are also people like me, who are really long time fans of the FF series and FFXI in general and want a shot at a giveaway. So who are you to say you should take that from then. Now if by all means BAN!!! the socks. But let ZAM decide on how they wanna do their give-a-way. >_> I'm done lol


Wasn't saying you don't deserve a chance, not telling you that you don't. More like your choice of words was hasty and could easily be used against you by those with the opposing opinions, as well as stating my own opinion that only those who argue about it and point fingers are the ones who truly look greedy. Was also playing a bit of Devil's Advocate and speaking for the other side in what I thought they would say, though looking at it my post did come out with a rather negative feel to it.



It's alright lol i was like **** lol this is why i don't post on forums XD lol j/k but yea I dunno i'm looking forward to it ^^. Even if i dont get in the beta... dude the game comes out in 43 days lol. 43! thats insane! Only the power of SE can finish beta phases so quickly before the release. >_> They're nuts.
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#256 Aug 09 2010 at 5:21 PM Rating: Decent
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19 posts
1+ month old account is the only way to settle this.
#257 Aug 09 2010 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
441 posts
couple of days left.... no point in fighting on how to judge it... decision has been made for random drawing, im sure they'll weed out the socks and matching IP's...
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Oscar Wilde

#258 Aug 09 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
*
112 posts
TheWhiteFox44 wrote:
Silverwyrm wrote:
Quote:
:O I'm just stating that people need an equal chance, contributing or not, lol visiting the site and getting the sites view count up is contributing lol. There are many ways to contribute to a website. Posting on the forums is one, I agree, and a huge one. I have just never been a fan of forums. I feel my word isn't as heard as I want it to be, you know? lol. I hope ZAM does reward their long time fans, no doubt about it. But I also feel that posting giveaways like this... well make people come out of their holes and voice what they have to say. Now I'm not bashing you or anything and I don't hate on you for telling me I'm wrong, but be alittle opened minded about this. There are socks granted too many for ZAM to cover, but there are also people like me, who are really long time fans of the FF series and FFXI in general and want a shot at a giveaway. So who are you to say you should take that from then. Now if by all means BAN!!! the socks. But let ZAM decide on how they wanna do their give-a-way. >_> I'm done lol


Wasn't saying you don't deserve a chance, not telling you that you don't. More like your choice of words was hasty and could easily be used against you by those with the opposing opinions, as well as stating my own opinion that only those who argue about it and point fingers are the ones who truly look greedy. Was also playing a bit of Devil's Advocate and speaking for the other side in what I thought they would say, though looking at it my post did come out with a rather negative feel to it.



It's alright lol i was like **** lol this is why i don't post on forums XD lol j/k but yea I dunno i'm looking forward to it ^^. Even if i dont get in the beta... dude the game comes out in 43 days lol. 43! thats insane! Only the power of SE can finish beta phases so quickly before the release. >_> They're nuts.


This is what I have posted about before. Here is a low poster, but your heart is sooooo in the Game/World that is FFXIV that I can feel it. Your love for the game and the excitement you feel shows in your words. All who show this much love and devotion for FFXIV keep the forums and the game/world alive. You are right and the game will be here quicker than all anticipate.

Again I wish all good luck as the drawing day gets closer. May your heart always have that day before Christmas feeling! ^ ^


Edited, Aug 10th 2010 9:21am by Tolerance4u
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FFXI (BST 75, RDM 75, BLM 75, BRD 75) (along with many subs and cherished friends)

And on the 7th day God created Miqo'te.
On the 8th day God saw that they were sad and lonely, God then threw down a Squarenix staff member and thus was born the male Miqo'te.
#259 Aug 09 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
Tolerance4u wrote:
FFXI (BST 75, RDM 75, BLM 75, BRD 75)


Why do you type this at the end of every post? You can just put that in a sig and save yourself the trouble of manually retyping it.
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Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#260 Aug 09 2010 at 8:07 PM Rating: Good
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112 posts
Mikhalia wrote:
Tolerance4u wrote:
FFXI (BST 75, RDM 75, BLM 75, BRD 75)


Why do you type this at the end of every post? You can just put that in a sig and save yourself the trouble of manually retyping it.


Sorry I'm not real familar with the ins and outs of the forum as of yet. I have no idea how you change your signature line atm, but give me time and I will get there eventually.

FFXI (BST 75, RDM 75, BLM 75, BRD 75)
____________________________
FFXI (BST 75, RDM 75, BLM 75, BRD 75) (along with many subs and cherished friends)

And on the 7th day God created Miqo'te.
On the 8th day God saw that they were sad and lonely, God then threw down a Squarenix staff member and thus was born the male Miqo'te.
#261 Aug 09 2010 at 8:16 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
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5,159 posts
Go to the bar at the top of the page and click on Account. On that page, on the left, is a link to Forum Settings. Click that and you'll have a box where you can type your signature. Hit save after entering it and it'll show up automatically on all your posts retroactively (though it may take a while for old posts, it's instant for new ones).
#262 Aug 09 2010 at 8:24 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,539 posts
Tolerance4u wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:
Tolerance4u wrote:
FFXI (BST 75, RDM 75, BLM 75, BRD 75)


Why do you type this at the end of every post? You can just put that in a sig and save yourself the trouble of manually retyping it.


Sorry I'm not real familar with the ins and outs of the forum as of yet. I have no idea how you change your signature line atm, but give me time and I will get there eventually.

FFXI (BST 75, RDM 75, BLM 75, BRD 75)


Click on Accounts at the top, then Forum Settings.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#263 Aug 09 2010 at 11:47 PM Rating: Good
*
112 posts
Majivo wrote:
Go to the bar at the top of the page and click on Account. On that page, on the left, is a link to Forum Settings. Click that and you'll have a box where you can type your signature. Hit save after entering it and it'll show up automatically on all your posts retroactively (though it may take a while for old posts, it's instant for new ones).


Thank you and Mikhalia. I have corrected the situation and I appreciate the inpute from you both. I rated both answers up.
____________________________
FFXI (BST 75, RDM 75, BLM 75, BRD 75) (along with many subs and cherished friends)

And on the 7th day God created Miqo'te.
On the 8th day God saw that they were sad and lonely, God then threw down a Squarenix staff member and thus was born the male Miqo'te.
#264 Aug 09 2010 at 11:50 PM Rating: Good
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1,218 posts
Tolerance4u wrote:
Majivo wrote:
Go to the bar at the top of the page and click on Account. On that page, on the left, is a link to Forum Settings. Click that and you'll have a box where you can type your signature. Hit save after entering it and it'll show up automatically on all your posts retroactively (though it may take a while for old posts, it's instant for new ones).


Thank you and Mikhalia. I have corrected the situation and I appreciate the inpute from you both. I rated both answers up.


You shouldn't rate up Mikhalia. It just encourages him. Smiley: boozing
#265 Aug 10 2010 at 1:04 AM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
KarlHungis wrote:
Tolerance4u wrote:
Majivo wrote:
Go to the bar at the top of the page and click on Account. On that page, on the left, is a link to Forum Settings. Click that and you'll have a box where you can type your signature. Hit save after entering it and it'll show up automatically on all your posts retroactively (though it may take a while for old posts, it's instant for new ones).


Thank you and Mikhalia. I have corrected the situation and I appreciate the inpute from you both. I rated both answers up.


You shouldn't rate up Mikhalia. It just encourages him. Smiley: boozing


Quiet, you.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#266 Aug 10 2010 at 1:08 AM Rating: Excellent
*
239 posts
KarlHungis wrote:
Tweezle120 wrote:
I support a 100% fair contest, which means I also support allowing 1 posters to win. EVEN the one posters who aren't coming back, that's the nature of a fair pubic raffle. What counts is the exposure generated for the site. Anyone fan enough to run around to all the fan sites and sign into all the raffles for a chance are fan enough to do the beta good. (or whoever buys their code is fan enough, though not as smart. And much less evil.)
.


Equality of outcome is not the same as fairness.

There's "fair" in the sense of "I wasn't lied to or taken advantage of" but there's also "fair" in the sense of "What I get back is proportionate to what I've given." One is the fairness of honesty and the other is the fairness of just desserts. You can have both simultaneously, or neither, or just one or the other.

ZAM is in a position to give away beta keys mostly because of the users who drive the site by contributing either their ideas or their cash, or both. Some one who showed up and made a single post has done nothing, literally nothing, to "deserve" the same shot as those who have actually contributed. A 50 post scholar has contributed some thing. A 500 post sage has contributed more. A 5000 post guru has contributed a LOT. It's not unfair to reward them differently.


Edited, Aug 9th 2010 6:09pm by KarlHungis


Ooh good answer, rate up! So which is more important? the former or the latter version of fairness? because I feel that the former is more objective and the latter subjective I still choose the favor the first.

And in this case, the minimum toll asked as the "price" for getting a shot at the keys is to lay eyes on the site and post once. Someone who shows up and posts once hasn't done LITERALLY nothing, they generated a hit for Zam, which helps them secure add revenue. If this is all that Zam requires for a chance it can be argued that not allowing extra credit that could be impossible (or undesirable) to obtain is best. (seniority being impossible without notice, and post count could result in a lot of trash posts)

Everyone who pays the price is equally deserving, it just depends on what we view that price should be. Should the price be a measure of how valuable a member you are? This can be variable and subject to opinion which benchmarks to use. Or should it just be one set fee for everyone? The latter is certainly more clean to administrate: If they chose age or post count or a mix of both there would be a lot of debate on *exactly* how the scores should be tallied, and should we then look at who has the most excellent posts?
#267 Aug 10 2010 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
***
1,218 posts
Tweezle120 wrote:
KarlHungis wrote:
Tweezle120 wrote:
I support a 100% fair contest, which means I also support allowing 1 posters to win. EVEN the one posters who aren't coming back, that's the nature of a fair pubic raffle. What counts is the exposure generated for the site. Anyone fan enough to run around to all the fan sites and sign into all the raffles for a chance are fan enough to do the beta good. (or whoever buys their code is fan enough, though not as smart. And much less evil.)
.


Equality of outcome is not the same as fairness.

There's "fair" in the sense of "I wasn't lied to or taken advantage of" but there's also "fair" in the sense of "What I get back is proportionate to what I've given." One is the fairness of honesty and the other is the fairness of just desserts. You can have both simultaneously, or neither, or just one or the other.

ZAM is in a position to give away beta keys mostly because of the users who drive the site by contributing either their ideas or their cash, or both. Some one who showed up and made a single post has done nothing, literally nothing, to "deserve" the same shot as those who have actually contributed. A 50 post scholar has contributed some thing. A 500 post sage has contributed more. A 5000 post guru has contributed a LOT. It's not unfair to reward them differently.


Edited, Aug 9th 2010 6:09pm by KarlHungis


Ooh good answer, rate up! So which is more important? the former or the latter version of fairness? because I feel that the former is more objective and the latter subjective I still choose the favor the first.



I think the latter gives a deeper feeling of satisfaction, but it can't exist without the former.
#268 Aug 10 2010 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
*
239 posts
I think I internet love you. I have never had a satisfying conversation about something as subjective as fairness on the internet and had it come to a close that didn't involve name calling or just abandoning it... And now I find my general opinion of fairness expanded and agree with you ^_^ fairness is a measure of both and the balance struck is probably opinion and waaaay different from case to case. I also totally agree on the fairness of deserts is more satisfying!

...I...I just had a satisfying and enlightening conversation on an internet forum...

::cries::

I've never been so happy!
#269 Aug 10 2010 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
***
1,218 posts
Tweezle120 wrote:
I think I internet love you. I have never had a satisfying conversation about something as subjective as fairness on the internet and had it come to a close that didn't involve name calling or just abandoning it... And now I find my general opinion of fairness expanded and agree with you ^_^ fairness is a measure of both and the balance struck is probably opinion and waaaay different from case to case. I also totally agree on the fairness of deserts is more satisfying!

...I...I just had a satisfying and enlightening conversation on an internet forum...

::cries::

I've never been so happy!


It's good to be loved on the internet!

Every one seems to be in a good mood the last few days for some reason.
#270 Aug 10 2010 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
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441 posts
Quote:

It's good to be loved on the internet!

Every one seems to be in a good mood the last few days for some reason.


cause we THOUGHT the giveaway was coming to an end in a day......

mood's gonna change i think lol
____________________________
“Big jobs usually go to the men who prove their ability to outgrow small ones.”
Theodore Roosevelt

“Between men and women there is no friendship possible. There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship.”
Oscar Wilde

#271 Aug 10 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Good
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787 posts
All your beta are belong to us.
#272 Aug 10 2010 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
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205 posts
Everyday brings us closer to 22th sep, and thus we should try getting happier/excited everyday. I'm looking forward to retail ver. so even if i couldn't make it to beta test 1 month early i wouldn't be too sad.
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