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#1 Aug 08 2010 at 3:20 AM Rating: Decent
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I remember FFXI not allowing any mods at all including windower's. I heard they added the feature later and I'm pretty sure FFXIV will have the windower but will they allow any other mods like most other MMO's?
#2 Aug 08 2010 at 3:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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No.
#3 Aug 08 2010 at 3:43 AM Rating: Good
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WoW has struck me as a bit of an exception when it comes to third-party programs and their approval. On the other hand, Blizzard also has oodles of more money to throw at anti-cheat measures and examining the products players produce for future in-house integration.

As is, I wouldn't expect it for XIV. I would be somewhat remiss if the UI and such is as archaic as XI's, but even what we have in beta is unlikely to be what comes in retail or even later. Player input is important to this process, but inevitably, I'd say a smartly designed game shouldn't require third-party apps. On that end, I would probably say Blizzard has actually failed with their default UIs (at least when I played years back).

Sadly, cheaters will always cheat regardless of SE's stance. Ideally, the impact of their transgressions can be reduced through game design emphasizing fair access (instancing) over exclusivity (reward goes to he with the better claim bot).
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#4 Aug 08 2010 at 4:05 AM Rating: Good
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I asked for it in the feedback forum, hopefully the devs read that and give us something...although I got rated down for that thread, so someone doesn't like the idea Smiley: laugh

Also, I agree that a good UI doesn't need improvement, but there are some other things to consider. Like the LCD clock and Windows gadget I've created (See sig). It would be nice to display stats on those. Also, some kind of way to feed data to Zam so that you could have your char info (like with XI, but automatically) would be very useful.

Edited, Aug 8th 2010 5:07am by Wint
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#5 Aug 08 2010 at 4:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think the bigggest reason SE don't want people using mods, is because the game needs to mirror the console version so noone has any kind of advantage between using the pc/ps3, unless the ps3 version also has mod support, but highly doubtful
#6 Aug 08 2010 at 7:32 AM Rating: Good
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the PS3 can suport addon mods all that needed is a USB flashdrive;
i remenber the game unreal tournament supported mods using this wayyy so i doubt the ps3 is holding back on the addon and mods. as an old school MMO playerr i have to say i dont want FFXIV to have any addon. i miss the pre "questhelper" days one of the reason i loved FFXI overr WOW
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#7 Aug 09 2010 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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Ggrab wrote:
the PS3 can suport addon mods all that needed is a USB flashdrive;
i remenber the game unreal tournament supported mods using this wayyy so i doubt the ps3 is holding back on the addon and mods. as an old school MMO playerr i have to say i dont want FFXIV to have any addon. i miss the pre "questhelper" days one of the reason i loved FFXI overr WOW


Agreed, makes it more freindly between players too. Hey i need help with "blah". sombody who had difficulty themselves "yeah sure, where are ya i know that one"
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#8 Aug 09 2010 at 10:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
Player input is important to this process, but inevitably, I'd say a smartly designed game shouldn't require third-party apps. On that end, I would probably say Blizzard has actually failed with their default UIs (at least when I played years back).

It's not required, but it does help, and that's simply inevitable. You can have all the best in-house programmers in the world, but throw enough hobbyists at it (and support them with a properly documented API) and they'll always manage to find a way to improve on it. I think Blizzard's managed to find a way to take that fact and leverage it to their advantage, since they've integrated a number of features into the default UI. I'd love to see SE do something similar for FFXIV, not only because the playerbase will find a way to do it better, but because you can adjust the aesthetics of your UI to suit your own personal preferences. However, it doesn't really seem to be their way to allow it, which is somewhat understandable with their MMOs also being on consoles.
#9 Aug 09 2010 at 10:24 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
However, it doesn't really seem to be their way to allow it, which is somewhat understandable with their MMOs also being on consoles.


Which gives PS3 players an unfair advantage over PC now, dun' it?? They can sit a their PS3 while they surf the web on their notebook/desktop to get info while we poor windowless ******'s have to log out to surf the latest intel.

As a mouse player on FFXI, I absolutely COULD NOT use the FFXI implemented windower. It was impossible to adjust POV by dragging the mouse to the side of the screen [you'd just jump your mouse onto the desktop without any view adjustment] Granted, I'm probably in a very small minority of people who had this issue, but it was annoying as ****. I always kinda wondered why SE didn't just buy out Azaril [or later Starhawk] and license it under SE. Would've saved time, money, and made a **** of a lot more sense. . .

at least so i remember thinking @ the time.

Quote:
On that end, I would probably say Blizzard has actually failed with their default UIs (at least when I played years back)


I would argue that this was a stroke of Genius on Blizzard's part. They let the players design and build the UIs they want, they don't have to spend time or money coding or maintaining those UIs, and the community gets good fine tuning control over exactly what they want/need in their UI.

Where this fails is in the delivery, when people start slipping keyloggers etc into the packages on less reputable sites. THIS is where the real problem with UI mods and 3rd party apps comes in.

Yes, I'm sure you could come up with a safer way of implementation, but the cost/upkeep may not be worth it.

Edited, Aug 10th 2010 12:33am by seneleron
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#10 Aug 09 2010 at 10:32 PM Rating: Decent
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It's a double edge sword. On one hand it's cool that people can change the interface any way they want. But on the other it's a breeding ground for cheats, hacks, and bots. With the hard line approach you can more effectively reduce cheaters. With a soft line approach you'll have to do some research to find cheaters.

If you are wondering about a straight windower mode than I'm sure FFXIV will have it but expect it to just be that, a minimaze/window with no add-ons.
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#11 Aug 09 2010 at 10:33 PM Rating: Decent
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As a mouse player on FFXI, I absolutely COULD NOT use the FFXI implemented windower. It was impossible to adjust POV by dragging the mouse to the side of the screen [you'd just jump your mouse onto the desktop without any view adjustment] Granted, I'm probably in a very small minority of people who had this issue, but it was annoying as ****.

You would be in an incredible minority of players who banged their head against the wall by trying to use the mouse in FFXI, yes. I certainly wouldn't call it an "unfair advantage", though, especially since FFXIV is almost guaranteed to have windowed mode off the bat, or at least support alt-tabbing. Even if you absolutely could not minimize the game, you can still very readily get by without the information available online.

Edited to add quotes for clarity since someone else snuck in a post. Also to respond to this:

Quote:
Where this fails is in the delivery, when people start slipping keyloggers etc into the packages on less reputable sites. THIS is where the real problem with UI mods and 3rd party apps comes in.

I don't understand why Blizzard didn't just host the addons on their site and make installation an instant process managed by the client. It eliminates any security concerns and any mistakes on the part of the user during installation. Fortunately a few reputable addon communities came up, but they've all had security violations in the past (not in the actual addons, but in their banner ads, usually). If FFXIV did allow mods, I would want them to host them on their own servers.

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 11:36pm by Majivo
#12 Aug 09 2010 at 10:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Double posting against my better judgment because things just get too confusing if I edit again.

dyvidd wrote:
It's a double edge sword. On one hand it's cool that people can change the interface any way they want. But on the other it's a breeding ground for cheats, hacks, and bots. With the hard line approach you can more effectively reduce cheaters. With a soft line approach you'll have to do some research to find cheaters.

As long as the mods aren't third-party, there's no issue with it at all. You can support an API for addons that doesn't allow game-breaking functions, without opening security doors to applications outside of the game. Really, Blizzard's already laid out the groundwork for all of this; it wouldn't be hard to implement at all from an innovation viewpoint. As a technical accomplishment it would probably require significant rewriting of their UI code if it wasn't included from the start.
#13 Aug 09 2010 at 10:56 PM Rating: Good
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I don't understand why Blizzard didn't just host the addons on their site and make installation an instant process managed by the client.


That one's easy: Because then they'd have to staff it, support it, and police it, which costs money and time. Much easier to let the community do it and simply add an "at your own risk" disclaimer somewhere in the EULA.

Quote:
Even if you absolutely could not minimize the game, you can still very readily get by without the information available online.


I'm also sure they'll have a built in FUNCTIONAL windower, and/or alt-tab support. I take playful offense at your suggestion that I "can still very readily get by without the information available online". I'm a product of the internet age darnit! Google is my memory! I'm thinking Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade here. . "I wrote it down in my diary so I wouldn't *HAVE* to remember" [Henry Jones Sr.] [note: that whole paragraph, minus the first sentence, is meant completely tongue-in-cheek ;) ]

I'll deal with it if it happens, but I'd rather not have to think about it :D

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#14 Aug 09 2010 at 11:03 PM Rating: Good
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seneleron wrote:
That one's easy: Because then they'd have to staff it, support it, and police it, which costs money and time. Much easier to let the community do it and simply add an "at your own risk" disclaimer somewhere in the EULA.

They could do what they did with Warcraft 3's map editor and basically say "we're hands-off on this, good luck!" but still host the files on their site. I laugh every time I boot it up and get a disclaimer say that it is absolutely, 100% non-supported by Blizzard.

Quote:
I'm also sure they'll have a built in FUNCTIONAL windower, and/or alt-tab support. I take playful offense at your suggestion that I "can still very readily get by without the information available online". I'm a product of the internet age darnit! Google is my memory! I'm thinking Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade here. . "I wrote it down in my diary so I wouldn't *HAVE* to remember" [Henry Jones Sr.]

I was working under the assumption that you guys had upgraded to cyborg brains and would just daily download the latest data from FFXIV fansites. Apparently I'm still ahead of the curve on that one. Smiley: frown Oh well, at least you can still... love...
#15 Aug 10 2010 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent
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The one mod I want as soon as possible is IME support... Everything else I can do without.
#16 Aug 10 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Well the game can already be windowed, but you can't do a pseudo-fullscreen (or a borderless fullscreen window) from the given options.

I'd be shocked if people didn't make mods for FFXIV.
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