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#52 Aug 09 2010 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Vinceft wrote:
Infact most of our customers use to be women gamers.
That's not really surprising.

Vinceft wrote:
And AW has always held a BBB score of B and above, which is pretty significant in modern day business. So, I don't think it's fair to label a company bad because of pricing. The equipment and options they use has always been top of the line, as well as customer feedback.
Depends on what your definition of "bad" is. Bose doesn't make "bad" headphones, they make good ones but sell them for twice what they're worth.
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#53 Aug 09 2010 at 5:44 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Depends on what your definition of "bad" is. Bose doesn't make "bad" headphones, they make good ones but sell them for twice what they're worth.


lol.. Well, that is true but you're comparing the sale of a product, to a sale of a service. There is a big difference.

AW sells products that you can buy yourself and put together, already combined and set up. Not to mention unlike other companies there is absolutely no bloat software that other companies pack in there, just the essentials and performance parts.

Now - That goes a long way because other companies pack that trial software in there and get money for it, and are paid by companies like Sony, Norton, and others to offer 'trials' on their pre-built PCs. And the amount of money they are given to do that is pretty significant. Now Alienware has to offer a service strictly for service - which is why their prices are so high, you're paying to NOT have all this bloatware and advertisment crap that's included in these other pre-built systems. This says a lot for the company because if you compare prices, AW isn't much more expensive then other similiar pre-builts and don't get paid to give you all this crap in your PC that you don't want.

Not to mention the liquid cooling and aquostic dampening in the cases is all included the price. Which goes a long way as even the average PC builder tends to stay away from liquid cooling solutions. And it's not cheap stuff, it's good cooling and dampening solutions which would cost you about 200$ to get yourself. They'll even put it on your GPU(s).

A better comparison, with your definition would be like saying the company that built my desk is bad because I could of just bought the wood and did it myself. There are far more expensive and profitable things in the world people pay a fee for then computers. And what other company can you buy a PC for that doesn't come with a bunch of stuff you don't want that bloats your hard drive and performance? Virtually nobody but Alienware if you don't want to do everything yourself and would rather pay a fee.

Or, not to mention like the OP, they offer financing as well, so it is his only option to be on the cutting edge. I wouldn't talk down on him for using these services.

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 7:48pm by Vinceft
#54 Aug 09 2010 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Vinceft wrote:
Quote:
Depends on what your definition of "bad" is. Bose doesn't make "bad" headphones, they make good ones but sell them for twice what they're worth.


lol.. Well, that is true but you're comparing the sale of a product, to a sale of a service. There is a big difference.
I know. That's why I keep saying that Alienware isn't worth the price, not that they make a crappy product.

Pabst sells a $44 bottle of beer in China, it is essentially the same beer it is in the states but with heavy marketing and appeal to customers with more money than common sense. The same beer is worth $2 at a bar here, at most. They can pull it off because the growing number of Chinese capitalists are more than eager to show off how much money they have, and because they don't know that it's just a very cheap beer from the US.

Again, not saying that it's a bad beer (it's cheap and tolerable), you're just a stupid person for buying it, and they're an arguably bad company for exploiting people that heavily. Still within their right to do it, just like it's within my right to call them out on it.

Vinceft wrote:
Now - That goes a long way because other companies pack that trial software in there and get money for it, and are paid by companies like Sony, Norton, and others to offer 'trials' on their pre-built PCs. And the amount of money they are given to do that is pretty significant. Now Alienware has to offer a service strictly for service - which is why their prices are so high, you're paying to NOT have all this bloatware and advertisment crap that's included in these other pre-built systems. This says a lot for the company because if you compare prices, AW isn't much more expensive then other similiar pre-builts and don't get paid to give you all this crap in your PC that you don't want.
Time spent uninstalling bloatware: Minutes.

Time spent working at your job to earn back enough money to cover the higher cost of a system without bloatware: Hours? Days? A week or more?

Vinceft wrote:
A better comparison, with your definition would be like saying the company that built my desk is bad because I could of just bought the wood and did it myself.
Not really. It'd be like the company that built your desk charging 50% more than what other companies that build the same desk sell for. In both cases, you could buy the materials yourself and get the best deal of all. But that's not what I'm saying to do.

Even if the OP really should, because it's drastically easier than people assume it is. Besides, we have a sticky for building PCs with people that give advice on how to do it properly, as well as several video guides showing you exactly what to do.



Edited, Aug 9th 2010 7:23pm by bsphil
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#55 Aug 09 2010 at 6:46 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:

Time spent uninstalling bloatware: Minutes.

Time spent working at your job to earn back enough money to cover the higher cost of a system without bloatware: Hours? Days? A week or more?


That's ONLY if you know how. A person can make $100/hr but he may only know how to use email, MS Words and some simple programs. Keep in mind that something maybe super simple to you but it's hard for others.

Quote:
Not really. It'd be like the company that built your desk charging 50% more than what other companies that build the same desk sell for. In both cases, you could buy the materials yourself and get the best deal of all. But that's not what I'm saying to do.

Even if the OP really should, because it's drastically easier than people assume it is. Besides, we have a sticky for building PCs with people that give advice on how to do it properly, as well as several video guides showing you exactly what to do.



Edited, Aug 9th 2010 7:23pm by bsphil


Your example is not quite right neither. It would be like a well-known company that built your desk charging 50% more than a local furniture store that build the same desk sell for. People would pay the 50% more for a trusted name, customer service and warranty.

In short, do you have any suggestion to the OP that he could get the same thing offered by AW (parts and it's prebuilt) anywhere else?

PS. You can find video guides for anything and everything these days, if you'd never build a TV, would you go to youtube and search for the video "The complete guide to build your HDMI TV" then buy all the mats and starting building one your own?
#56 Aug 09 2010 at 7:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I know. That's why I keep saying that Alienware isn't worth the price, not that they make a crappy product.

Pabst sells a $44 bottle of beer in China, it is essentially the same beer it is in the states but with heavy marketing and appeal to customers with more money than common sense. The same beer is worth $2 at a bar here, at most. They can pull it off because the growing number of Chinese capitalists are more than eager to show off how much money they have, and because they don't know that it's just a very cheap beer from the US.

Again, not saying that it's a bad beer (it's cheap and tolerable), you're just a stupid person for buying it, and they're an arguably bad company for exploiting people that heavily. Still within their right to do it, just like it's within my right to call them out on it.


That's like a 2000% mark up... Still not compareable imo. You'd be hard pressed to find a PC built the way an alienware is these days. Sony, HP, Gateway, all of these old companies don't offer true performance parts.

Quote:
Time spent uninstalling bloatware: Minutes.

Time spent working at your job to earn back enough money to cover the higher cost of a system without bloatware: Hours? Days? A week or more?


This is true but contradicting as well. We all complain that buying a pre-built computer is bad and list this as the reason, yet a company offers a service without it and then we turn around and say, well, it only took a minute to do anyways.

Quote:
Not really. It'd be like the company that built your desk charging 50% more than what other companies that build the same desk sell for. In both cases, you could buy the materials yourself and get the best deal of all. But that's not what I'm saying to do.

Even if the OP really should, because it's drastically easier than people assume it is. Besides, we have a sticky for building PCs with people that give advice on how to do it properly, as well as several video guides showing you exactly what to do.


Oh, believe me I agree with you here that he should build his own. But, if not building his own, like I said it'd be truley impossible to get a performance PC pre-built professionally. And I think you're over-rating the actual cost of an Alienware. You can get one for 1000$ these days that come with an i7 and a GTX 260. The same build from scratch would cost you about 800, 650 or so without the liquid cooling but, $200 mark up on having a pre-built PC with a warranty is not a bad deal for someone who is not "Technical minded" as the OP said.

Everything has a mark up, to refer to something as bad because they offer a service that no other company offers compare-able, isn't very open minded or helpful.

And from my experience, most people always ruin or damage something their first time building a PC. It's not something I recommend doing from watching Youtube videos... I would expect others to give the same advice. So many things could go wrong, most average gamers don't know what a BIOS even is or what it's for. I wouldn't want those people building a PC from scratch. lol.
#57 Aug 09 2010 at 7:14 PM Rating: Decent
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There's another option that I haven't seen anyone mention yet.

You could ask around at your local PC/component stores and see if one of them would be willing to build your PC for you if you brought in the components. Sure they'd charge a small fee, but you know it would be put together right.

If you absolutely have to go with Dell though, I'd take a longer look around their website. I was looking at one of their towers that would run XIV pretty good for around $1200.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dxcwds1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19

Take this one for example. I customized it with:

Athlon II X4 630
Radeon 5770
4G RAM 2x2G 1333 (regrettably Dell doesn't offer 1600mhz sticks as a selectable option)
500G 7200 HDD
21.5" Monitor
Total: $978.99

You could upgrade the processor to the Phenom X6 and the GPU to the 5870 if you wanted to for even better performance. The options I chose should run the game quite well though.
#58 Aug 09 2010 at 7:16 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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dunlag wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Time spent uninstalling bloatware: Minutes.

Time spent working at your job to earn back enough money to cover the higher cost of a system without bloatware: Hours? Days? A week or more?
That's ONLY if you know how. A person can make $100/hr but he may only know how to use email, MS Words and some simple programs. Keep in mind that something maybe super simple to you but it's hard for others.
If you're reading this forum, I'd bet you have enough knowledge to be able to uninstall software. If not for some strange reason, you can ask people on this forum.

dunlag wrote:
People would pay the 50% more for a trusted brand name
I'll note that Dell has gotten notoriously bad with it's outsourced customer service.

dunlag wrote:
In short, do you have any suggestion to the OP that he could get the same thing offered by AW (parts and it's prebuilt) anywhere else?
Yes. I already have.

dunlag wrote:
PS. You can find video guides for anything and everything these days, if you'd never build a TV, would you go to youtube and search for the video "The complete guide to build your HDMI TV" then buy all the mats and starting building one your own?
No, because building a TV is drastically different than building a PC. Primarily, you can't. You might as well have just said "that's like building your own monitor!" Every piece you put together is complete as-is when you're building your own PC, and they are all designed to be easily put together with whichever pieces you choose. Such is not the case with a TV of any variety (or monitor). If you have any questions about the compatability or just on general advice, again, there is a sticky in this forum exactly for that. If you've ever put together a full lego model, you can put together a PC.

Vinceft wrote:
Quote:
I know. That's why I keep saying that Alienware isn't worth the price, not that they make a crappy product.

Pabst sells a $44 bottle of beer in China, it is essentially the same beer it is in the states but with heavy marketing and appeal to customers with more money than common sense. The same beer is worth $2 at a bar here, at most. They can pull it off because the growing number of Chinese capitalists are more than eager to show off how much money they have, and because they don't know that it's just a very cheap beer from the US.

Again, not saying that it's a bad beer (it's cheap and tolerable), you're just a stupid person for buying it, and they're an arguably bad company for exploiting people that heavily. Still within their right to do it, just like it's within my right to call them out on it.


That's like a 2000% mark up... Still not compareable imo. You'd be hard pressed to find a PC built the way an alienware is these days. Sony, HP, Gateway, all of these old companies don't offer true performance parts.
Spoken like someone who used to work for Alienware, lol. And that would be 2200% markup.

Vinceft wrote:
We all complain that buying a pre-built computer is bad and list this as the reason
Actually, we all don't. I'd take that in a heartbeat over a drastically higher pricetag. It's dumb, but I don't have any issues with it considering the alternative. The best alternative, again, would be building your own and just putting an OEM OS onto a factory formatted hard drive. Zero bloatware whatsoever, only exactly what you want. :P

Vinceft wrote:
Oh, believe me I agree with you here that he should build his own. But, if not building his own, like I said it'd be truley impossible to get a performance PC pre-built professionally. And I think you're over-rating the actual cost of an Alienware. You can get one for 1000$ these days that come with an i7 and a GTX 260. The same build from scratch would cost you about 800, 650 or so without the liquid cooling but, $200 mark up on having a pre-built PC with a warranty is not a bad deal for someone who is not "Technical minded" as the OP said.
As if warranties don't exist unless you buy a PC pre-built?

Vinceft wrote:
Everything has a mark up, to refer to something as bad because they offer a service that no other company offers compare-able, isn't very open minded or helpful.
You could pay someone to do it for you, or you could get free advice from people here that are more than willing to help people out and then learn something in the process. Not liking the "deal" offered by your former employer doesn't make me close-minded.



Edited, Aug 9th 2010 8:27pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
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#59 Aug 09 2010 at 8:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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With the exception of the last 3 weeks I've been out of a job since December so money isn't something I have to spare at the moment.. :/


You are *NOT* going to want to hear this, but I'll say it anyway because I think I'd want someone to say it to me:

Maybe you should put your PC aspirations on hold for awhile until your financial situation has stabilized. Computers and games are luxuries, while survival is. . well. . survival. I'm willing to bet you could use that money in other ways to help you improve your situation.

It's your choice, and you may not appreciate me mentioning it, but I can't in good conscience NOT say it. Times are not the best right now, and they don't show many signs of getting better.

just something to think about.
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#60 Aug 09 2010 at 9:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Whenever I see someone ask a computer salesman's advice for what to buy, it makes me sad, because this type of scenario -always- happens.

They sell you junk at an inflated price tag.

BaseIntel® Core™ i3 Processor 540 (3.06GHz, 4MB) <--- Horrible. Should get a Phenom II X4 or an i5 750 or better.
ATI Radeon™ HD 5450 1GB DDR3 graphics <--- Horrible. Should get AT LEAST a 5770/460. 5830 or higher or a 470 or higher are even better.
4096MB Dual Channel DDR3 [4x1024] Memory <--- 4 GB is good, but 4x1 GB is horrible. 2x2 GB in dual channel is much better.

And anyone in here trying to defend Dell would be well advised that Dell just sold the OP a steaming pile of ****. You can polish a **** and slap a Dell logo on it but it's still a ****. And you can polish it a little more, Slap an alien head on it, and charge twice what it's worth for the alien head, but it's STILL a ****.

I strongly advise building them yourself, but if you MUST go through Dell, here:

Option A:

http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/desktops/studio-xps-8100/pd.aspx?refid=studio-xps-8100&s=dhs&cs=19&~oid=us~en~29~studio-xps-8100-anav1~~

Dell Studio XPS 8100, Customized as follows:
Core i5-750
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
4 GB DDR3 1333 RAM (unfortunately they don't offer a 2X2 option, which is terrible, but I'm working with what I have)
No Monitor (Get whatever monitor you want, doesn't matter)
Radeon 5770
500 GB HD

Total - $978.99

Option B:

http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/desktops/desktop-studio-xps-9000/pd.aspx?refid=desktop-studio-xps-9000&s=dhs&cs=19&~oid=us~en~29~performance-deals_anav_03~~

Dell Studio XPS 9000, Customized as follows:
Core i7-920 (I'd suggest the 960 if you can afford the upgrade)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
8 GB DDR3 1066 RAM (This is terrible too; again, 4X2GB; it won't let me pick any less than this, and 1066 is slower than 1333)
750 GB HD
ATI Radeon 5870
21.5" monitor included (won't let me choose no monitor)

Total - $1,429.99


Option C:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dpcwpx1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=alienware-area-51

Alienware Area 51, Customized as follows:
Core i7-930 (As with B, I'd suggest 960 if you wanna take a step up)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
Single 2 GB Radeon 5970 (Yeah, buddy!)
6 GB DDR3 1333 RAM (If you wanna be a BAMF, go for the 1600. Don't get 12 GB though; that's stupid.)
640 GB HD
No Monitor (Again, get whatever you want)

Total - $2,449.00 (If you drop down from the 5970 to a 1.5 GB GTX 480 or a 1 GB Radeon 5870, it will knock 100-150 off, but at two and a half grand, might as well go for the gold. Extra $350 for the i7-960 and another $500 on top of that if you wanna go crazy and get the 980X.

As far as HD, I picked whatever the smallest option is because it won't affect performance really. Get a bigger HD if you want one.

So yeah, these prices are still 20-50% more than what it would cost to buy the parts individually but if you're going with Dell for the payment plan then I'd suggest one of these options.
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#61 Aug 09 2010 at 9:46 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Even if the OP really should, because it's drastically easier than people assume it is. Besides, we have a sticky for building PCs with people that give advice on how to do it properly, as well as several video guides showing you exactly what to do.


If you can put together a mildly difficult Lego structure, you can put together a PC. I recently built my first PC about 3 months ago, and it works great. Before then, the only thing I had ever done to a PC was change out a video card and some RAM. All someone needs to do, is just do some research before hand. I spent a few evenings looking at benchmarks of CPUs and graphics cards, and picking out parts, making sure everything was compatible. My case, CPU, and motherboard all came with nice instructions (with pictures & descriptions) of how to put it all together. I did look at a few youtube videos before hand, but for the most part I used the instructions provided with my parts. It took me about 2-3 hours or so to get it all done right, and everything has been running great since. I probably ended up saving about $300 building the PC myself, and I had a lot of fun putting it together.
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#62 Aug 09 2010 at 10:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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yeah I'm glad the folks on here are more like Mikhalia and Phil than Vinceft - ie. empowering rather than disempowering. I have the parts to my first build-it-myself PC ordered and on the way - why? Because instead of assuming we're all idiots here - the folks on the board have been encouraging posters left, right, and centre to get some basic computer skills, have a little faith in themselves, do a little research and save a lot of money.

I understand it is scary - heck I am nervous about doing this - but people do it all the time. It can be done. I know how to read. I can watch a youtube video. I have more brains than a hamster. Indeed -as long as nothing is DOA - I don't foresee any problems. If there are problems I will work through them. Learning can be difficult - but it is also really rewarding.

Anyway - good luck to the OP. I hope that after this computer you will do a little research and get some more confidence so you can do upgrades yourself and save a ton of money in the process.
#63 Aug 09 2010 at 10:48 PM Rating: Decent
12 posts
lol I'm not trying to put anyone down, i'm simply defending the OP. He stated multiple times that his only option was via Dell finance because he has no up front money and is not 'technical' and doesn't want to venture into the quest.

But people keep bad mouthing it and saying the same thing "Just build your own". This isn't helping him work through his issue and I'm trying to defend his arguement for the sake of his option.

Fact of the matter is, he knows he has to pay extra for the service - this is obvious. But people are saying "It's a bad company" and have no claims as to why, they're a highly rated company with good BBB ratings as well as an active member forum and free technical support so if he has an issue he doesn't have to call someone or pay someone to take the time to look through all his issues and find out what the issue is. It is very disheartening for a new builder to get their first blue screen of death, or their first beep from the motherboard. These issues can be fatal to the computer and I think in his situation he is making a wise choice.

I learned to build computers by first buying a stock kit, and upgrading parts to the maximum, upgrading is safest for a starter. Then from there, when I absolutely needed more performance, I bought a new CPU and mobo, and have learned step by step.

Telling someone to watch a youtube video and buy all these crazy parts for a PC when you're not even sure their age, over the internet is not a smart move as certain precautions not taken correctly can be fatal and shouldn't be attempted by people with absolutely no experience.

Not to say that anyone can or can't do it - I'm just stating facts, and why I believe he made a fair choice given his options, knowledge and finance issues.
#64 Aug 09 2010 at 11:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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you are one of the only people on here who has said building is hard. After watching the videos - I am pretty convinced it isn't. The only thing I worry about is if a part is DOA - but hopefully none will be. As for picking the parts and stuff - people helped me out. Hopefully it is as easy as other folks say... and hopefully I didn't make any last minute screwups when I was choosing my bits.
#65 Aug 09 2010 at 11:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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also if dude is so hard up he can only pay $30 bucks a month - there is even more reason for us to suggest they use newegg - which will save him hundreds of dollars and also has financing... but meh.
#66 Aug 10 2010 at 12:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Indeed, Newegg offers payment plans same as Dell or HP. So not only are you paying less, but you're also paying less PER MONTH for a better product.

Look at the three options I priced out.

Option A: Didn't even allow me to get 2x2 GB RAM sticks, if I wanted 4 GB, it HAD to be 4x1. And the best video card option was a 5770. There was nowhere up I could go from there.

Option B: Despite a higher price, all of the RAM options were 1066 instead of 1333; I thought this was supposed to be a BETTER system? They also force a monitor on you and don't let you choose not to have one. And I couldn't even choose 4 GB or 6 GB; they weren't even OPTIONS. 8 GB was the -LOWEST- that I could pick. Upgrading to an i7-930 wasn't an option either; it was 920 (Can you even -buy- a 920 anymore? Newegg isn't selling them), 960, or 980x.

Option C: An even higher price, this one STARTED at 1.5 grand and went up from there. This was the only one with reasonable options but I'd wager that $750-1000 of that price is because it's an Alienware. A similarly specced DIY would be notably cheaper.

I also feel somewhat worried that I don't know:

-The Power Supply Wattage -or- Manufacturer -or- 24V Rail amperage
-The Motherboard manufacturer -or- FSB speed -or- the amount of PCI-E X16 slots
-The RAM manufacturer

...on ANY of these systems.

Just for comparison, I'm going to use www.ibuypower.com to try to configure a rig as close as I can get to the Alienware one.

Remember that Alienware offers:
Core i7-930
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
Single 2 GB Radeon 5970
6 GB DDR3 1333 RAM
640 GB HD

...for a whopping $2,449.00

Now with ibuypower, I'm going to take:
The same CPU (i7 930)
Corsair 3x2GB DDR3 1333 RAM
A 2 GB Radeon 5970 (Sidenote: ibuypower recommends a 750W PSU, and I think that's a **** fine recommendation. I wonder what's in that Alienware? A 550? A 850? Who knows?)
850 Watt -- Thermaltake TR2 W0319RU Power Supply
1 TB Hard Drive (There wasn't a 640 GB option and the 750 GB option was only $9 less than the 1 TB so I said **** it and went for the 1 TB)
24X DVD-RW (Same as the Alienware although I didn't list it; the other two Dells had 16X)

They even throw in a liquid cooler for the CPU instead of a stock heatsink and fan; it's 10 bucks less if I want to downgrade that.

What's the grand total?

$1622!

Yes, that's right, ibuypower will build you a marginally better PC than Alienware will, at 2/3 of the price!

Here's an idea, let's go crazy and beef it up a little. We were going to spend $2,449 on that Alienware anyway, right?

That 5970? Let's Crossfire that son of a *****. 1200W Thermaltake Power Supply too. Let's bump that 1333 RAM up to 1800. What the ****, let's go ahead and pay em a little extra to overclock this bad boy for us.

Grand total? $2425. STILL less than The Alienware.

Hey Dell! How much for you to crossfire us a pair of 5970s in that Alienware? $650, you say? Fair enough, that's about what the other site wanted.

Does it come with a 1200W PSU though? I have two cats and I I wouldn't want my system to blow up. Poor fluffy and mittens would not look good splattered on my wall. Oh, I can't pick my PSU. Poor me. Here's hoping the 8 year old you employ in your Chinese factory puts in a good one.

Well what about 1800 MHz RAM? Oh, the best you can give me is 1600 MHz? And that's gonna cost me another $150 to upgrade 3x2 1333 to 3x2 1600? You know ibuypower would only have charged me $18 for that upgrade? Oh, that's not a very nice thing to say about my mother at all, Dell, and it has nothing to do with RAM. Yes, that second thing wasn't a very nice thing to say about my mother either, but at least you included the word "RAM" in it, so you win this round.

Can you get me some overclocking? What's that, overclocking voids my warranty completely? Well that's unfortunate. At least you're going to include a free copy of World of Warcraft preinstalled though, that's totally awesome of you guys.



Here's an idea, as long as I'm on a kick. Let's just go ******* crazy, turn this m-fer up to 11, and buy an insanely expensive Alienware system.

The Area 51 ALX. This baby STARTS at 4 grand. Actually, I think they're billing me 10 bucks just for LOOKING at the WEBPAGE it's on. I'll tell them I clicked it by accident. Back me up here.

We're gonna upgrade it to an i7-980X, factory overclocked (oh, neato) to 4.0 GHz. Dual 2 GB 5970s of course. 12 GB of DDR3 1600 (which is ******* insane, but that's what we're going for here, so bring it on). 2 TB RAID 0 Drives just to round it out.

How much for that ************? $6,599.00! Now we're talking! Let's mosey on over to ibuypower again. You guys still there?

We're gonna start with a Gamer Paladin D885. Yeah, I'm wary of the name, but we'll give it a shot and hope it's the cool Tiamat-tanking Paladin and not the lame bubblehearthing ******* Paladin.

980x, 12 GB of DDR 1600 RAM, a pair of 2 GB 5970s, a 1200W Thermaltake PSU, two 1 TB HDs in RAID-0 (RAID-1 doesn't cost any extra if you prefer mirror to stripe). We'll even toss in a Blu ray burner because we're awesome, and for a couple hundred more, I can upgrade the motherboard to an ASUS Rampage III Extreme. How can that NOT be a good idea? It's got "Rampage" -and- "Extreme" in the name. This is the motherboard your motherboard would smell like if it used Old Spice. Let's go ahead and overclock that whole ******* system too. Why not? How much?

Only $4,305!

We're already crazy, let's just go even more nuts. What can we do for six and a half grand, huh?

Those video cards? Make em 4 GB instead. Two 1.5 TB HDs because we clearly need a whole 'nother terrabyte of space. A Second Blu-ray burner. Why? Who cares. Make that PSU a 1500W. Again, who cares why. Don't question me. I am the almighty consumer. Let's make that 12 GB of RAM 1866 instead. I know, I know, for another $400 bucks I could have gotten 24 GB instead, but that's just silly.

Can I get some case lighting? "Liquid Neon Thunder", eh? Sounds awesome. What about the case itself, what's the most expensive ******* case you have? Zalman GS1000? That name sounds pretty dumb, but I don't even care, I'll take it.

Let's throw in a G15 keyboard and a G9X mouse. What's the biggest monitor you got? 27"? Kay. Gimme two. What did I tell you about asking me why? Shut the **** up, that's why.

So what's my total now? $6576? So you're telling me that I can get more hard drive space, two of the most expensive video cards on the market, better RAM, the most expensive case and motherboard and lighting you got, the beefiest PSU you got, a kick *** gaming mouse and keyboard, and two of the biggest monitors you got and you're STILL cheaper than Alienware? **** yeah, Seaking!


In conclusion... Dell can die in a fire. And they owe my mother an apology.
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#67 Aug 10 2010 at 1:06 AM Rating: Good
12 posts
Haha, you really got into it. I was comparing the 1000$ price range. Seems the gap furthens as you go up but, I was only comparing for the OP's budget. Didn't need to get all 6 grand on us lol.
#68 Aug 10 2010 at 1:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
you are one of the only people on here who has said building is hard. After watching the videos - I am pretty convinced it isn't. The only thing I worry about is if a part is DOA - but hopefully none will be. As for picking the parts and stuff - people helped me out. Hopefully it is as easy as other folks say... and hopefully I didn't make any last minute screwups when I was choosing my bits.


It is easy, the biggest issues for newbies is ussually socketing the CPU into place and using the correct amount of paste. This is a crucial step that needs to be checked, and rechecked after the CPU is done. I had one person who I tried to walk through building not be careful enough, had to re-set the CPU and somehow got paste on the pins and didn't realise it. LOL. Long story short, the mobo and CPU stopped working shortly after and were not covered by warranty.

Your first focus should always be checking voltages and temps after first starting up the PC. Obviously i'm sure you already read everything so I wont go into detail on actually building it but, just put a big focus on the temps after it's set up. Don't trust the mobo's "auto" settings, make sure it's running all your equipment at all the right volts and at good temps. The most issues I see people have are in this area. Ussually with CPU thermal paste as they apply too much or too little. This part gets all the newbies!

But, it is easy, and a fun process if you follow all the steps and stay safe. I enjoy doing it, it's one of my hobbies lol.
#69 Aug 10 2010 at 1:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Caffeine will do that to you.

Let's see... We'll compare to Option A this time:

Dell Studio XPS 8100, Customized as follows:
Core i5-750
4 GB DDR3 1333 RAM (1GB x 4)
Radeon 5770
500 GB HD
Don't know PSU
16X DVD-RW

Total - $978.99

First, we'll go for the comparable model, spec-wise.
Core i5-760 (750 wasn't an option)
4 GB DDR3 1333 RAM (2GB x 2)
1 GB Radeon 5770
500 GB HD
600W PSU (Brand name not specified)
24X DVD-RW (Cheapest option available 16X is not an option)

Total - $758.00

Let's bump it up a smidge now to get it closer to $1000.
i7-870
4 GB DDR3-1333
650W Thermaltake EVO PSU
1 GB Radeon 5830
750 GB HD

...this brings us to exactly $1000.00, so it's slightly (22 bucks) more expensive than the XPS 8100 and we're getting a better CPU, better RAM (2x2GB instead of 4x1GB), bigger HD, better video card, better burner, and a cursory Google search indicates that the 8100 has a 350W PSU. Say goodbye to that 5770 when it burns up in a year or two under the load of FFXIV.

I'll do the same thing for Option B as well.

Dell Studio XPS 9000, Customized as follows:
Core i7-920
8 GB DDR3 1066 RAM
750 GB HD
ATI Radeon 5870

Total - $1,429.99

Remember, first I'll match the specs, then I'll match the price.

Unfortunately, I can't get a system with 8 GB RAM -and- a core i7-920. However, here are passmark scores:

Intel Core i7 870 @ 2.93GHz 5,885
Intel Core i7 930 @ 2.80GHz 5,817
Intel Core i7 920 @ 2.67GHz 5,573

...so I hope that you will bear with me and agree that the 870 should be comparable (if not better) than the 920 for the purposes of this comparison. If I went with an i7-920, I'd have to pick either 6 GB -or- 12 GB.

Core i7-870
8 GB DDR3 1333 RAM (1066 RAM isn't even an option)
750 GB HD
ATI Radeon 5870
700W Power Supply of unknown brand

Total - $1272. Keep in mind that, despite my attempts to keep the specs close, this system has a better CPU, better RAM, and judging by the 8100, probably a better PSU too. According to Tom's, the XPS 9000 ships with a 425W Power Supply. That poor 5870 is going to die a slow, painful death and will be powerless to do anything about it (See what I did there? Powerless? I crack me up.)

So, for another 200 bucks, we probably aren't going to be able to do too much here.

I'm gonna get a 750W Thermaltake PSU, gonna change that 8 GB of DDR3-1333 (Remember that Dell was only giving us 1066 anyway) to 6 GB of DDR3-1600, go with a core i7-930 instead of the 870 (based on my benchmarks above, you'll note the minuscule difference.

That still only leaves me at 1376 and I feel like I need to jam another 50 bucks into this. Upgrade the HD to 1 TB, and I guess change out the 1 GB 5870 for a 1.5 GB GTX 480. That brings me to $1443. I probably didn't even need to do that; a 5870 is fine.


Anyway, the main point I'm getting at through all this is that:

1) Dell offers horribly limited customization options.
2) Dell overcharges significantly.
3) Power Supplies in XPS systems are terribad.
4) You can, in fact, get the same thing cheaper or a better thing for about the same price.

Edited, Aug 10th 2010 4:05am by Mikhalia
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#70 Aug 10 2010 at 2:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Vinceft wrote:
It is easy, the biggest issues for newbies is ussually socketing the CPU into place and using the correct amount of paste. This is a crucial step that needs to be checked, and rechecked after the CPU is done. I had one person who I tried to walk through building not be careful enough, had to re-set the CPU and somehow got paste on the pins and didn't realise it. LOL. Long story short, the mobo and CPU stopped working shortly after and were not covered by warranty.


Actually, most stock heatsinks come with the thermal paste pre-applied. All you have to do is pull off the plastic strip under it and plop it down. If you can put on a band-aid, you can put a heatsink on a CPU. I'd say the hard part is just making sure it's firmly in place, really.

And I have no way of picturing how one could get thermal paste on the pins, which are -under- the CPU... not unless you put the heatsink down and forgot to put the CPU there first? I dunno. On the other hand, I've seen a great number of things managed to get spectacularly ****** up in ways I had never dreamed possible, so who am I to say?
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#71 Aug 10 2010 at 2:22 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia wrote:
Dell Studio XPS 8100, Customized as follows:
Core i5-750
4 GB DDR3 1333 RAM (1GB x 4)
Radeon 5770
500 GB HD

Total - $978.99

Core i5-760 (750 wasn't an option)
4 GB DDR3 1333 RAM (2GB x 2)
1 GB Radeon 5770
500 GB HD
600W PSU (Brand name not specified)
24X DVD-RW (Cheapest option available 16X is not an option)

Total - $758.00


Because I'm bored, I'm going to part this out and assume I'm building it from scratch.

Core i5-750: $195
ASUS P7H55-M PRO: $85
OCZ 4 GB DDR3 1333: $85
1 GB Radeon 5770: $160
500 GB HD: $55
650W RAIDMAX HYBRID 2 PSU: $50
DVD-RW: $20
Windows 7 x64 HP: $99

All that comes to $749 (before rebates) and we're missing a case. $50 seems like a reasonable amount to spend on a case, so that's $799; still almost $200 cheaper than what Dell was going to give us. It's a little pricier than ibuypower's offer (They likely buy in bulk and make their own cases to save on cost, not unlike Dell, but unlike Dell they don't charge an insane markup on the finished product). I probably could cut some costs if I got an off-brand 600W PSU and some off-brand RAM I guess. There was also a 5770 reg. $180 on sale for $150 that I saw, and as I said there were rebates on some of this stuff too. Tossup between this and IBP but both definitely blow Dell away.


EDIT: I'm actually really impressed with this build the more I look at it; I just threw it together in seconds. I think if it were me I'd probably replace the PSU with an Antec for an extra 30 or 40 bucks, just because of brand loyalty, but whatever. For 800 bucks, this is a pretty **** nice computer and would run XIV relatively well. 3750-4250 on low I'd guess.

Edited, Aug 10th 2010 4:56am by Mikhalia
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#72 Aug 10 2010 at 2:47 AM Rating: Good
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Just because I can't help myself, I went to Dell.com and tried to personalize the OP's computer and couldn't. Here was the system in the OP:

Quote:
Dell Inspiron 580

Intel® Core™ i3 Processor 540 (3.06GHz, 4MB)
ATI Radeon™ HD 5450 1GB DDR3 graphics
4096MB Dual Channel DDR3 [4x1024] Memory (1333)


Inspirons are -not- gaming machines, by the way. Just throwing that out there. Inspirons are "I surf the web and use Facebook and store my photos" machines. But I digress.

Anyway, If I picked the i3 system, it would only give me Intel integrated graphics; the only way to get the Radeon 5450 was to get an i5-750. The prices on these two (i3/integrated and i5/5450) were $499 and $649 respectively.

Heading back to ibuypower for the final time tonight, I tried to replicate the OP's computer as best I could.

Intel® Core™ i3 Processor 540
Integrated graphics (This is terribad, do not do this.)
4096MB Dual Channel DDR3 Memory (1333) (2 x 2GB; 4x1 was not an option)
Left it with a 450W PSU, I didn't know what was in the Inspiron, but the 450W is the cheapest option that IBP offers and given that the XPS systems had a 350 and a 425, it's safe to say that there's no way this Inspiron had a 450.
Included a 500GB HD; this was the cheapest offered, although the i3 version of the 580 comes with a 320 GB HD.

Total - $516 Dell wins this round by $17, but only because I -HAD- to put in a better PSU -and- better RAM -and- a better DVD-RW drive (24X compared to the Inspiron's 16X) -and- a bigger hard drive than what the 580 offers. I expected to give this round to Dell because under the $700 price point, it -IS- usually more economical to buy a shelf model. But then again, under $700 is -NOT- a gaming machine. No, Farmville does not count. And even though I anticipated this round going to Dell, it only went to dell by 17 bucks, and I still ended up with a system that was notably better because I -HAD- to. Increasing JUST the HD size of both the i3 580 and the IBP system to 750 GB on both ends (instead of comparing a 320 to a 500) brings the Dell system to $579 and the IBP system to $530. Advantage: IBP (And remember that still doesn't count the better RAM, DVD, PSU...)

Comparing to the $649 version with an i5-750, 4X1GB 1333 RAM, 750 GB HD, and a 5450 (Note - Do not use a 5450 for FFXIV; it's horrible.), I build the following on IBP:

i5-760 (Remember they don't have a 750 for whatever reason)
2x2GB 1333 RAM
750 GB HD
Radeon HD 5450
450W PSU

Total cost - $645.

This variant was actually pretty close to the Dell, if we ignore again the fact that for $4 less you have a better PSU, better CPU, and better DVD-RW; in all cases, because I -had- to pick them because they were the CHEAPEST options.

Again, not surprised this is as close as it is; I expected as much.

In the end though, when you buy retail, you do not, in fact, get what you pay for.
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#73 Aug 10 2010 at 5:45 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
Mikhalia wrote:
turn this m-fer up to 11
Louder than 10! /rockon

Vinceft wrote:
Haha, you really got into it. I was comparing the 1000$ price range. Seems the gap furthens as you go up but, I was only comparing for the OP's budget. Didn't need to get all 6 grand on us lol.
His price range was upwards of 1400 Euros, which is about $1840.

Mikhalia wrote:
No, Farmville does not count.
Ironically, Farmville is a huge resource hog having been written entirely in flash. My mom complains about how hard it is to run constantly. :P



Edited, Aug 10th 2010 6:48am by bsphil
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Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
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#74 Aug 10 2010 at 5:46 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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double

Edited, Aug 10th 2010 6:46am by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
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#75 Aug 10 2010 at 6:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Hugus wrote:
Hi everyone, first let me just say I'm not very technical minded so I would appreciate all the help I can get.

Just over a week ago I contacted Dell to get an idea about cost for a PC which would enable me to play FFXIV and was advised of the following:

Inspiron 580:

BaseIntel® Core™ i3 Processor 540 (3.06GHz, 4MB)
Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium 64bit - English
ATI Radeon™ HD 5450 1GB DDR3 graphics
4096MB Dual Channel DDR3 [4x1024] Memory
RAM 4GB

Comparing with the system requirements in the official web site I though I would be able to play no problem...my new PC arrived today and I went and got the benchmar and ran it. To my dismay I'm getting around 700 or lower which to me doesn't make any sense.

From what I read, Windows7 comes with Direcx11 which should be enough but I also updated with the latest driver along with ATI Catalyst for the Radeon HD.

Anyone has any ideas?


I have to say that I was in the same boat you are. I ran the benchmark on my laptop, that was the base problem right there, and it **** near blew up. So I was looking on I believe it was the HP website for a desktop to run 14. After alot of help on here I found my way to a site called Cyberpowerpc.com. I know next to nothing when it comes to a computer so building one myself was out of the question. On that site I had a few hardcore gaming friends 'guide' me when building one on the site. I went from the same basic set up you have to a i5 processor, 5770 radeon card, increased ram, more space, increased power supply and a much better cooling system. HP.com would of ran me about 950+ w/ S&H. On Cyberpower I spend 880.00 which included upgrading S&H. Be sure to look around and if all else fails, ask the people on here. They've been extremely helpful to me thus far.
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#76 Aug 10 2010 at 6:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Thank you for all the help but I'm getting so much information that I'm a bit confused with so many options. Please disregard any other build it yourself options and give me your thoughs on these 4 options and how they would perform on FFXIV:

1 - 889 Euro

AMD Phenom II x 4 820 2.8 GHz 6 MB
RAM 4096 MB 1333MHz DDR3 2 x 2048
1 GB ATI Radeon HD 5770

2 - 1049 Euro

Intel Core i5 750 2.6GHz 8 MB
RAM 6144 MB 1333 MHz DDR3 2 x 2 GB + 2 x 1 GB
1 GB ATI Radeon HD 5770

3 - 1099 Euro

Intel Core i7 860 2.8 GHz 8 MB
RAM 6144 MB 1333 MHz DDR3 2 x 2 GB + 2 x 1 GB
1 GB ATI Radeon HD 5770

4 - 1448

Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz 8 MB
RAM 6000 MB 1333 MHz Tri Channel
1 GB ATI Radeon HD 5870

Please present your opinions of these builds and try and refraim from using other ones. Once more thank you for all your help...
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#77 Aug 10 2010 at 7:06 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia wrote:
Indeed, Newegg offers payment plans same as Dell or HP. So not only are you paying less, but you're also paying less PER MONTH for a better product.

Look at the three options I priced out.

...


In conclusion... Dell can die in a fire. And they owe my mother an apology.


My only regret is I can I only rate you up once for this.. What a great thing to wake up to.
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#78 Aug 10 2010 at 7:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Well if you can spend 1448 euros... go with the i7 and the 5870.
The 5870 should be good for years, same as the i7.

You won't have any problems playing FFXIV with those. Should be able to run the game on high settings.
#79 Aug 10 2010 at 7:51 AM Rating: Decent
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If you want someone reputable to build your computer do a search on maingear and falcon northwest. Both are good integrator though they do charge a premium. I haven't used maingear before but I have used falcon northwest. (Company I work for wanted some special paint job computers for a show.)

I have personally owned an alienware computer before and after dell bought them. Both computers were laptops. The pre-Dell laptop was excellent. The post was a POS. Based on my customer service experience I would never buy from alienware again.

Building desktop computers isn't that hard, but if you don't feel comfortable pay someone to do it right. Keep in mind companies like dell buy in bulk and get low end parts.

#80 Aug 10 2010 at 8:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You won't have any problems playing FFXIV with those. Should be able to run the game on high settings.

In regards to the forth option.

What about the 3 previous options, which if any will also be able to run on high settings?
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#81 Aug 10 2010 at 8:32 AM Rating: Default
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You need ATI 5870!!
#82 Aug 10 2010 at 8:36 AM Rating: Decent
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And the 3 initial option allow to run on low? Even the first option?
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#83 Aug 10 2010 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I just bought my new pc from Dell, for $750 it ran the benchmark on low and scored around 4600. For the OP I would check out the dell outlet. This is my second computer from the outlet and also my family has bought several computers over the years through the outlet and never, ever had an issue with them. You get basically a brand new pc for a vastly reduced price off what they are going for new.
#84 Aug 10 2010 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I just bought my new pc from Dell, for $750 it ran the benchmark on low and scored around 4600. For the OP I would check out the dell outlet. This is my second computer from the outlet and also my family has bought several computers over the years through the outlet and never, ever had an issue with them. You get basically a brand new pc for a vastly reduced price off what they are going for new.


Could you let me know the specs on your machine?
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#85 Aug 10 2010 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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Don't forget...when you buy from Dell or HP, you are forced to buy the Window OS also. How many of us who build our own PC spent a penny on Windows? :)
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#86 Aug 10 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
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Hugus wrote:
Thank you for all the help but I'm getting so much information that I'm a bit confused with so many options. Please disregard any other build it yourself options and give me your thoughs on these 4 options and how they would perform on FFXIV:


I don't know why you insist on limiting yourself by tying the hands of the people that you're trying to get help from.

Hugus wrote:
1 - 889 Euro

AMD Phenom II x 4 820 2.8 GHz 6 MB
RAM 4096 MB 1333MHz DDR3 2 x 2048
1 GB ATI Radeon HD 5770


CPU is meh. What power supply is in this? You should have at least a 500W.

Hugus wrote:
2 - 1049 Euro

Intel Core i5 750 2.6GHz 8 MB
RAM 6144 MB 1333 MHz DDR3 2 x 2 GB + 2 x 1 GB
1 GB ATI Radeon HD 5770


This one is okay. What power supply is in this? You should have at least a 500W.

Hugus wrote:
3 - 1099 Euro

Intel Core i7 860 2.8 GHz 8 MB
RAM 6144 MB 1333 MHz DDR3 2 x 2 GB + 2 x 1 GB
1 GB ATI Radeon HD 5770


This one is okay as well. What power supply is in this? You should have at least a 600W.

Hugus wrote:
4 - 1448

Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz 8 MB
RAM 6000 MB 1333 MHz Tri Channel
1 GB ATI Radeon HD 5870


This one is the best of the four. What power supply is in this? You should have at least a 750W.


The power supply is EXTREMELY important. I REALLY hope you read my posts about that, because if you're buying a Dell, I explicitly stated that their studio XPS systems come with a 350 or a 425W PSU, neither of which are even remotely ample to power a good video card. In short, not only are you overpaying, but you're overpaying for a time bomb that you'll be lucky to have last for two years. Tops.

EDIT: Oh, and when the power supply dies in a Dell (and it WILL die), they tend to take other components with them. Like the motherboard. And the hard drive. You can kiss your programs, movies, music, and photos good-bye, and you will have absolutely no warning.

If you buy a system with a poor power supply, you are setting yourself up for CATASTROPHIC failure.

Edited, Aug 10th 2010 1:57pm by Mikhalia
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#87 Aug 10 2010 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Mik I do have a question. If the power supplies are far too low. Why don't they allow upgrades? I mean, I already know Dell is terrible, but this is just another reason why Dell is not a good choice.

I guess you could BUY a better power supply, but you'd have to take that into costs too then.
#88 Aug 10 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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Inevitable7 wrote:
Mik I do have a question. If the power supplies are far too low. Why don't they allow upgrades? I mean, I already know Dell is terrible, but this is just another reason why Dell is not a good choice.

I guess you could BUY a better power supply, but you'd have to take that into costs too then.


I have no idea why. Perhaps they think their average customer is not bright enough to realize that they're being sold underpowered power supplies? Perhaps they put weak PSUs in there so that they are built to fail, so that you buy another computer from them sooner? Who can say?

I would recommend replacing the one that comes with it, but then you void your warranty that Dell is "so great for". So yeah. Those are your choices with Dell when it comes to gaming rigs; an overpriced computer with an expiration date or an overpriced computer with no warranty, because removing the expiration date voided it.
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#89 Aug 10 2010 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
11 posts
Quote:
Could you let me know the specs on your machine?


Windows 7 Home
Intel Core i7-860 Processor (8MB Cache, 2.80GHz)
1024MB ATI Radeon HD 5770 GDDR5
8 GB DDR3 SDRAM 1066MHz
1 TB SATA II Hard Drive


I bought my previous dell a little over five years ago and although it wasn't necessarily a "gaming rig" it held it's own in games of the time(CS,CS:S,BF2,NFS,Warcraft3 etc..) I never had an issue with the PSU for the first 4 years I had it. Eventually I did upgrade the graphics card to handle newer games (COD4+6) and also had to upgrade the PSU along with it.

Edited, Aug 10th 2010 2:51pm by goldfish928

Edited, Aug 10th 2010 2:51pm by goldfish928
#90 Aug 10 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Default
18 posts
I definitely agree to what Vinceft pointed out about Alienware computers. I build computers all the time for others, but I always propose to the user that if they would like to pay $500 more, they could receive an Alienware computer with similar specs (though probably slightly lower), but the assurance that you can call Dell for assistance 24/7 till the end of the warranty period.

That is what the $500 gets you - assurance and peace of mind.

That being said, you can probably find someone locally who can help build you a computer for cheaper ~ though if I remember correctly, european prices for hardware is drastically higher than the US ~ so you probably won't even save much even if you build it yourself.

--edit:

Whoops, being so noob, I did not notice the second page of replies ~ from what I can see, everyone besides Vinceft is bashing the **** out of Dell. I just like to say two things:

"Combining both the top graphics and processor options with an 875W power supply, this Aurora delivers." - it comes with an 875W power supply. I would imagine a quick chat online with a sales rep can get the exact details that you desire. It might not be a seasonic, but it could be, who knows unless you OWN one (or ask, lol).

Lastly, you should consider the buyers personal preference... surely I can build very high quality furniture with a little bit of youtube and high quality material, but honestly, I do not have the time or interest to invest. Given this, I would prefer to pay a PREMIUM for the same table without additional efforts to myself or risks.



Edited, Aug 10th 2010 3:08pm by sohma
#91 Aug 10 2010 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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sohma wrote:
That is what the $500 gets you - assurance and peace of mind.


...and cheap off-brand parts, and a power supply that can't handle the video card and processor, and limited customization options, and a warranty that is voided the second you even think about opening that case.
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#92 Aug 10 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Not to mention, good luck if you do open the case. Every time I open a Dell case, they've shoved a bunch of plastic junk in there with the sole purpose of making it harder for you to get to any components.
#93 Aug 10 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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I just don't get it. FFXIV is a nice game. Like an anniversary.

So you come and you say, "Hey Mik, where do I take my wife for our anniversary?"

And I might suggest something like Outback or Longhorn or maybe an Applebees, possibly some local restaurants, depending on how classy you want it.

And then you come and you say "Well, I like that, but I was thinking McDonalds or Burger King. If you had to pick between McDonalds or Burger King, and you can only pick those options, which one would you take your wife to for your anniversary?"

The answer is none of them. Buying a retail machine for FFXIV is like taking your wife to a fast food joint for her anniversary. Yeah, they have food, but the atmosphere isn't great, the service is questionable, the bathrooms look like someone's kid **** on the floor... It's just a horrible idea.

Except in the case of retail systems, you're not saving money; you're actually spending MORE money on an INFERIOR product. So not only is it like taking your wife to a fast food joint, but it's like paying $80 for two burger meals.
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#94 Aug 10 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia,

I feel that you are being quite silly. You cannot compare the services of Dell versus personal service, to the service provided by different class restaurants. The proper comparison would be:

Why buy a burger from any restaurant, when you can buy your own high quality meat and grill it for much much cheaper (yes, even cheaper than fast food joints if you do it right - do the math).

The answer is simple ~ you don't have to gather the ingredients, prepare the ingredients, cook, and wash dishes after cooking and eating. Instead, I am PAYING someone to do it for me. I understand that McDonald is MORE expensive (though cheaper than other places) than cooking for myself, but the trade offs are worth it for me.

Do you understand?
#95 Aug 10 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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205 posts
To the OP:

4 is the best in options, it'll give you your best performance at a higher cost.

3 is a good contender and it's one that I'll recommend cause it's a good bang for buck computer, if you want to save on some things try reducing the ram a bit down to 4. Yes I know more ram is better, but not at the expense of eating cabbage and drinking air. You may also save a bit on HDD and maybe do some research on video cards as you may get by with a lower card.

1 only if you're on a tight buget, but I can guarantee that you'll start to see it's limitations very soon; it's still playable mind you. My roomie has a duo-core 3Ghz with 4GB of ram and a 9600GT video card. Even though it's on low settings, the benchmark runs pretty ok he's getting ~2500. Mind you that he got his computer....5'ish years ago so it's still not bad.

Good luck!
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#96 Aug 10 2010 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
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sohma wrote:
Mikhalia,

I feel that you are being quite silly. You cannot compare the services of Dell versus personal service, to the service provided by different class restaurants. The proper comparison would be:

Why buy a burger from any restaurant, when you can buy your own high quality meat and grill it for much much cheaper (yes, even cheaper than fast food joints if you do it right - do the math).

The answer is simple ~ you don't have to gather the ingredients, prepare the ingredients, cook, and wash dishes after cooking and eating. Instead, I am PAYING someone to do it for me. I understand that McDonald is MORE expensive (though cheaper than other places) than cooking for myself, but the trade offs are worth it for me.

Do you understand?


You're leaving out the part about, in your analogy, the fast food joint would be using inferior meat, processed cheese, charging an extra 50 cents if you want to add pickles or onions, half of the meat will fall out of the bun after the second or third bite, and if you put salt, pepper, ketchup, or mustard on it and find out it was undercooked, you can't exchange it for a new one anymore because you have voided your burger's warranty.

Your analogy would imply that a computer company is offering the SAME product and the increased price is for convenience when in fact they are not offering the SAME product, they are offering an INFERIOR product for a larger price.

You're not paying more for the same thing in a more convenient package; you're paying more for a product comprised of the cheapest parts they can find, with a weak power supply (and in many cases, only 1066 RAM), and a warranty that is voided the second you try to improve upon the ****** product they've overcharged you for.
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#97 Aug 10 2010 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
18 posts
Quote:
Why buy a burger from any restaurant, when you can buy your own high quality meat and grill it for much much cheaper (yes, even cheaper than fast food joints if you do it right - do the math).


I am pretty sure it is implicit that McDonald meats are grossly processed and obviously not as high quality of meat one can purchase from the butcher. Still, it is one of the most popular fast food restaurants, and made a profit of 1.23 BILLION dollars (based on estimates, but regardless of the error margin, it means that they are doing well, despite their 'inferior' products).

No where in my argument am I making that McDonalds is making similar or superior burgers than those you can make at home. You're just trying to introduce random BS into the argument that have very little relevance to what I am trying to say. Your equation that you keep on repeating and repeating, does not include TIME, CONVENIENCE, and ASSURANCE. To advice someone based on only PRICE and QUALITY is simply ignorant. The more I think about it, I am pretty sure you are just trolling. Shame on me for biting.

#98 Aug 10 2010 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
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sohma wrote:
Quote:
Why buy a burger from any restaurant, when you can buy your own high quality meat and grill it for much much cheaper (yes, even cheaper than fast food joints if you do it right - do the math).


I am pretty sure it is implicit that McDonald meats are grossly processed and obviously not as high quality of meat one can purchase from the butcher. Still, it is one of the most popular fast food restaurants, and made a profit of 1.23 BILLION dollars (based on estimates, but regardless of the error margin, it means that they are doing well, despite their 'inferior' products).

No where in my argument am I making that McDonalds is making similar or superior burgers than those you can make at home. You're just trying to introduce random BS into the argument that have very little relevance to what I am trying to say. Your equation that you keep on repeating and repeating, does not include TIME, CONVENIENCE, and ASSURANCE. To advice someone based on only PRICE and QUALITY is simply ignorant. The more I think about it, I am pretty sure you are just trolling. Shame on me for biting.



You're forgetting that ibuypower builds the computer for you and ships it premade.

Dell - Prebuilt, ****** parts, no control over parts, expensive
ibuypower - Prebuilt, better parts, more control over parts, less expensive.

So that pretty much invalidates the time, convenience, assurance thing.

You're ALSO forgetting that Dell has ALREADY sold the OP a computer that is an overpriced hunk of crap that won't do what he needs it to do. The system listed in the OP was RECOMMENDED TO HIM BY DELL and is a HORRIBLE system that will choke at the mere MENTION of FFXIV.

So in conclusion, you're defending a company that overcharges, uses inferior parts, has ALREADY sold the OP one system that won't do what he needs, and you're defending this versus a company that will build a complete machine and ship it using better parts and a far more reasonable price?

Note that only once in all my posts did I actually price out a machine part by part. Cyberpower, Tigerdirect, ibuypower are all companies that will build the machine FOR YOU and for LESS MONEY and with BETTER PARTS.

I'm not trolling at all; I'm stating facts and backing them up with statistics and data. All you're doing is being a Dell fanboy and repeating how awesome it is to have someone ***** you with a horrible computer at an inflated price "because it's convenient", when other companies are willing and able to offer THE SAME CONVENIENCE.

I really hope Dell includes K-Y jelly with all purchases. It would make ******** their customers even more convenient than they already make it.
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#99 Aug 10 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Default
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By the way Mik, please provide me examples of Dell sending you 1066 DDR3 when you order 1333 or 1600 DDR3. The speeds and capacity are not the unknowns, which is what you keep saying. The only unknown is the maker and model of the components.

It is very clear you haven't any experience buying Dells.
#100 Aug 10 2010 at 2:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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sohma wrote:
By the way Mik, please provide me examples of Dell sending you 1066 DDR3 when you order 1333 or 1600 DDR3. The speeds and capacity are not the unknowns, which is what you keep saying. The only unknown is the maker and model of the components.

It is very clear you haven't any experience buying Dells.


So when you can't win an argument, you put words in my mouth? I don't have to provide proof to back up something I didn't say. Good effort though.

What I -did- say was:

Mikhalia wrote:
You're not paying more for the same thing in a more convenient package; you're paying more for a product comprised of the cheapest parts they can find, with a weak power supply (and in many cases, only 1066 RAM)


Yes, they tell you up front that they're giving you sh*tty 1066 RAM. At no point in there did I say they claim you are getting 1333 and sending you 1066 instead.

They don't tell you the manufacturer or the RAM. They don't tell you the wattage or amperage or manufacturer of the power supply. They don't tell you the manufacturer of the hard drive. They don't tell you the manufacturer or model of the motherboard or the bus speeds. They don't tell you the manufacturer of the video card. They don't tell you a lot of things that other similar sites who will build a computer for you WILL tell you.

But you're right, they do tell you up front that they're giving you sh*tty RAM. Never said they didn't. It's one of the few places where they'll let you know you're getting screwed prior to forking over your cash.

Edited, Aug 10th 2010 4:25pm by Mikhalia
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#101 Aug 10 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
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Here's one more little Dell tidbit. I'm typing on an Inspiron 1526 laptop right now. My fiancee has a Vostro.

Despite using the same AC adapters, did you know that if you order a 95W 3 prong power adapter for an Inspiron, it costs less than ordering a 95W 3 prong power adapter for a Vostro? Even though they're the same part with the same model number and part number?

Did you also know that I've had this Inspiron for a year and a half and the max battery life is about 1 1/2 hours? My AC adapter (the reason I need to buy a new one) that came with the Inspiron died a few months ago, two months out of warranty. So not only do I need to buy a new AC adapter, but I need to buy a new battery too.

And, since I purchased my Dell through Best Buy, I can't order the parts FROM Dell. See, Dell has a contract with Best Buy that says if I call Dell for service, they CAN NOT help me, or rather they're not supposed to. They are required to tell me to take my Dell into Best Buy and I have to pay whatever Geek Squad wants to charge to get my Dell fixed.

So yeah. I have experience with Dells.

Their server support is a lot better, and I don't mind calling their enterprise help lines at all for server hardware issues because they're pretty on the ball there. But their home user service and support is abysmal.

EDIT: Oh yeah, the letters C, M, and the right side of my inspiron's spacebar don't work right half the time, so I have to hit C and M harder to get them to register, and I have to press the left side of the spacebar to get it to work. Also not covered under warranty so I will need to buy a new keyboard for my laptop too.

Go, Dell!

Edited, Aug 10th 2010 4:32pm by Mikhalia
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