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GTX 470 vs ATI HD 5850Follow

#1 Aug 09 2010 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
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I know, I know. These threads are all the rage these days. But this is important!

Now, there are two cards I'm looking at purchasing: The NVIDIA GTX 470 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130550&cm_re=geforce_gtx_470-_-14-130-550-_-Product
) or the ATI HD 5850 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121370&cm_re=ATI_HD_5850-_-14-121-370-_-Product). They both cost roughly the same amount of money and score high on the benchmarks; but here's the catch: The 470 is 545 points ahead of the other according to this benchmark -- http://videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html --
while the 5850 is 459 points ahead of the 470 according to this benchmark -- http://www.graphicscardbenchmarks.com/gpubench/index.cfm/graphics-card-and-gpu-blog/ffxiv-benchmark-performance-calculator/

As a typically PC-clueless gamer, you can imagine how much this perplexes me. One benchmark says x is the best; one says the complete opposite. Which list am I supposed to trust? Is any of this even rationally correct? Somebody please put me out of my misery and let me know which card would suit me best. D: Thanks in advance.

Also (if it helps at all), these were my benchmark results:
Windows Vista Home Premium (6.0. Build 6001) Service Pack 1 (6001.vistasp1_gdr.100218-0019)
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU
Q9400 @ 2.66GHz (4 CPUs). ~2.7GHz
NVIDIA GeForce GT 230

(Results from 1280x720)
SCORE: 1718
LOAD TIME: 12261 ms

(Results from 1920x1080)
SCORE: 888
LOAD TIME: 13335 ms

(Let me know if you need any extra information to help give the right advice. Thanks again!)
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#2 Aug 09 2010 at 6:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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That stuff's confusing me as well...seems like the XIV benchmark totally goes against all the other benchmarks out there with certain cards...I went with the 470 to save a few bucks and I'll be part of the crowd that's hoping the benchmark is off or that new driver updates will give the nvidia cards a boost...

There's some threads/debates you can find by googling 'gtx470 vs 5850'...something that seems to come up a lot is that the nvidia's tend to run hotter, while an agrument for them is better drivers...I don't think there's a "wrong choice" in this situation...

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 8:32pm by TwistedOwl
#3 Aug 09 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Both are very good cards. On paper the 470 is more powerful but in testing ATi is currently just performing better. That may or may not change down the road. They're both strong enough cards that I'd not base your decision on FFXIV. Will the extra money for a 470 be worth the extra increase in performance elsewhere and down the road, is what you have to decide. I wouldn't buy that particular 5850 though, you can get them for ~$270.

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 7:30pm by bsphil
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#4 Aug 09 2010 at 6:57 PM Rating: Good
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The strength of the cards imo will be in your selection of a motherboard. If your motherboard has enough X8/X16 PCIE lanes, then the 5850 would perhaps be the better option, because CrossFire works with any card in the current generation. You can mix 5830/5850/5870 together, whereas with SLi, you need the same model (not same manufacturer) of card.

If your motherboard only supports one 16x (or one 16x one 4x) or something like that, you're best off taking whichever is currently the best bang for the buck. The 470 and 5850 are very close, so if you can get one or another at a good place either should perform fairly close.

If your motherboard has two slots, then consider getting a 5850 now, because you can get a 5830, 5870, or another 5850 if you catch a sale down the line and you can just throw it in to supplement the PC you already have and not all-out upgrade.
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#5 Aug 09 2010 at 7:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I was gonna get the 5850 myself, because I've heard GTX470 seems to be VERYVERY HOT and I'm not someone who will spend extra buck investing on extra fans or water cooling stystem.
but eventually I bought a GTX470 myself with the 20% off coupon code from Gamestop, provided by the generous Tweetle120 in the ZAM forum here, it ends up to be $260USD by the way.

I've read from the other thread that other than a bigger power supply, you would probably need a better processor to complement the card you are planning to get, so it won't bottleneck the card.

my opinion is, forget about the benchmark scores for a sec and think about this:
Do you really know and would you be able to know how much difference on the graphics in game for that 545 or 459 points difference on the benchmark?
I am clueless as well, and I just went with the one that is more affordable :D




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#6drkmod, Posted: Aug 09 2010 at 7:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) An incredibly smart friend of mine helped me purchase my card. What he advised me to look at is the clock speed times the memory interface.
#7 Aug 09 2010 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
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Well, for what's it worth, I just recently upgraded to a HD 5850 1 GB sapphire GPU. My old card was a 9400 GT. My CPU is an E8500 dual core @3.16 GHz.

Old FFXIV benchmark was 400, now it's 3,500. I've been told that my CPU is still bottlenecking it. I'm planning on upgrading the CPU soon, and perhaps even switching to something newer than XP in order to take advantage of all 4 gigs of my RAM. Without those bottlenecks, like I said, I've been told that it would have scored higher. Still, the card runs the beta great, the CPU just has a tiny wee bit of choppiness around large clusters of players/npcs, and I've been told that part is entirely handled by the CPU and not the GPU. Barring that, I'd say the HD 5850 is a good card.

Oh and also, my rig isn't really setup with anything special cooling-wise, just a single case fan... So I was concerned with heat output when shopping for a card... The sapphire card I ended up getting claimed to run at least 10°C cooler than it's competitors, and I gotta' say, it's been living up to that claim as I've tried putting stress on it and seeing how it did, and my temperatures have been very good. It's also very quiet, and I can't even hear it with my setup.

So yeah, I can't really say which is better as I haven't used the other one, but I'm definitely satisfied with this card. It cost me just over 300 bones on newegg, but it was money well spent imo. At any rate, good luck making your decision. :P
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#8 Aug 09 2010 at 7:34 PM Rating: Default
Edited by bsphil
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drkmod wrote:
and till run cooler
nVidia, running cooler?

umad?

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 8:36pm by bsphil
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#9 Aug 09 2010 at 7:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
nVidia, running cooler?

umad?


Dang. There are opinionated 13 year-old trolls on ZAM too? But no, On a serious note, thanks so much for your contribution to this thread. I'm sure it helped the OP. Love the "Oh, look, that guy posted some idea's, ima go find a picture made by some crybaby cause his Nvidia overheated cause he was OC'ign like a ******, HURRRR"

Then, to finish the deal, you added that cute little "umad" meme. Man, total hero here. Using 4chan lingo on a Final Fantasy forum. Wish I am that cool one day.
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#10 Aug 09 2010 at 7:51 PM Rating: Decent
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ff14 = dx9, GTX 470's strength = DX11 so 5850/5870's are doing better in the FF bench.

I scored scored 4927 on high with a single 5870 @ stock clocks and a 4ghz i7-920
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#11 Aug 09 2010 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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drkmod wrote:
Quote:
nVidia, running cooler?

umad?


Dang. There are opinionated 13 year-old trolls on ZAM too? But no, On a serious note, thanks so much for your contribution to this thread. I'm sure it helped the OP. Love the "Oh, look, that guy posted some idea's, ima go find a picture made by some crybaby cause his Nvidia overheated cause he was OC'ign like a ******, HURRRR"

Then, to finish the deal, you added that cute little "umad" meme. Man, total hero here. Using 4chan lingo on a Final Fantasy forum. Wish I am that cool one day.
Yeah why'd I have to be a jerk and make a joke about your claim that a card that draws more power and runs more operations in roughly the same size somehow runs cooler.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-480,2585-15.html

It's a fact, nVidia cards run hotter. You could nearly boil water with the temps that the 470 runs at under load (96 degrees C compared to 82 degrees C from the 5850).

You'll never be as cool as me. Your card runs 17% hotter.



Edited, Aug 9th 2010 8:57pm by bsphil
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#12 Aug 09 2010 at 8:06 PM Rating: Decent
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drkmod wrote:
Quote:
nVidia, running cooler?

umad?


Dang. There are opinionated 13 year-old trolls on ZAM too? But no, On a serious note, thanks so much for your contribution to this thread. I'm sure it helped the OP. Love the "Oh, look, that guy posted some idea's, ima go find a picture made by some crybaby cause his Nvidia overheated cause he was OC'ign like a ******, HURRRR"

Then, to finish the deal, you added that cute little "umad" meme. Man, total hero here. Using 4chan lingo on a Final Fantasy forum. Wish I am that cool one day.

Your response is completely overblown. It may not have been completely diplomatic, but he's right: nvidia cards typically run much hotter than their ATI equivalents. No offense, but dispensing technical advice on the basis of what a friend told you - when that friend apparently made up a measure that no one else uses - is a good way to get your advice shot down.
#13HooraySoysauce, Posted: Aug 09 2010 at 8:24 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I can't believe anybody would make their purchase based on temps.
#14 Aug 09 2010 at 8:29 PM Rating: Good
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Majivo wrote:
drkmod wrote:
Quote:
nVidia, running cooler?

umad?


Dang. There are opinionated 13 year-old trolls on ZAM too? But no, On a serious note, thanks so much for your contribution to this thread. I'm sure it helped the OP. Love the "Oh, look, that guy posted some idea's, ima go find a picture made by some crybaby cause his Nvidia overheated cause he was OC'ign like a ******, HURRRR"

Then, to finish the deal, you added that cute little "umad" meme. Man, total hero here. Using 4chan lingo on a Final Fantasy forum. Wish I am that cool one day.

Your response is completely overblown. It may not have been completely diplomatic, but he's right: nvidia cards typically run much hotter than their ATI equivalents. No offense, but dispensing technical advice on the basis of what a friend told you - when that friend apparently made up a measure that no one else uses - is a good way to get your advice shot down.


Yeah, I'm going to have to second both the "Yes, nVidia cards run hotter than ATI cards" and "Your friend is making **** up".
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#15 Aug 09 2010 at 8:31 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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HooraySoysauce wrote:
I can't believe anybody would make their purchase based on temps.

1. Performance
2. price

Everything else excuses for fanboys and poor people.
Exactly, only poor people would be worried about overheating their PC and needing to rebuy components.
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#16 Aug 09 2010 at 8:33 PM Rating: Good
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HooraySoysauce wrote:
I can't believe anybody would make their purchase based on temps.

1. Performance
2. price

Everything else excuses for fanboys and poor people.


You do realize that performance includes temperature, right? You can only do so well without replacing the stock cooling with an aftermarket cooler and it's helpful to know how much you can do.

I'm not picking a side, I'm just stating a fact here. I don't care how good brand X car is vs brand Y car, if Brand X car is prone to high temperatures, you're not going to want to run it as hard during summer months. Same for computers; if you do your gaming in a room that is naturally hot like an attic or 2nd/3rd floor room... you might want to be aware of the effects this will have on your system and plan accordingly when it comes to purchasing your card if you're not getting any extra cooling.
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#17 Aug 09 2010 at 8:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Apparently, if you consider every factor of your card when you buy it, you're doing something wrong. I wish I had known this before buying cards that run much cooler and use less power at marginally lower performance!
#18 Aug 09 2010 at 8:56 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure what others have said having not read the other posts but the 470 and 5850 roughly perform around the same level just as the 480 and 5870 perform around the same level. In most gaming situations I've seen the ATI cards perform a little better than the nvidia but they're all good. The only setback with the nvidia cards is they are a lot hotter than the ATI cards. I recently bought a 5850 having been a longtime nvidia fan so you can guess what my suggestion for you would be.
#19 Aug 09 2010 at 9:19 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
heard GTX470 seems to be VERYVERY HOT


Everyone I've talked to said this is a myth and that their card runs fine even under load. Like 30 degrees below any danger zone.
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#20HooraySoysauce, Posted: Aug 09 2010 at 9:22 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Right because if your components overheat with x card, then they wouldn't with y card. If a gtx 470 overheats everything (lol) then the card is the least of your problems.
#21 Aug 09 2010 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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GuardianFaith wrote:
Quote:
heard GTX470 seems to be VERYVERY HOT


Everyone I've talked to said this is a myth and that their card runs fine even under load. Like 30 degrees below any danger zone.
If you'd like to show evidence contrary to the link I gave, I'd be willing to take a look at it. Otherwise I'll stick with the 5850 running 25F cooler than the 470.

HooraySoysauce wrote:
Right because if your components overheat with x card, then they wouldn't with y card. If a gtx 470 overheats everything (lol) then the card is the least of your problems.
If you're overheating, why bother running 25 degrees cooler? I dunno, YA GOT MEH.

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 10:25pm by bsphil
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#22 Aug 09 2010 at 9:25 PM Rating: Decent
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GuardianFaith wrote:
Quote:
heard GTX470 seems to be VERYVERY HOT


Everyone I've talked to said this is a myth and that their card runs fine even under load. Like 30 degrees below any danger zone.


It's not that it's in danger of overheating, it just runs hot, making your whole rig hot and dropping performance of everything.
#23 Aug 09 2010 at 9:26 PM Rating: Good
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I did take in consideration the temperature in my choices. Before this build, I happened to have a lot of temperature issues with my former PC.

Since I am building this only for FF XIV, I think I made a good choice:

- I don't need the power from the GTX 470 (You always DO NEED more power, but check below)

- The 5850 was actually cheaper than the 470, meaning I did save a little bit on my tight budget.

- I don't sweat in my small three rooms apartment anymore


#24 Aug 09 2010 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
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HooraySoysauce wrote:
I can't believe anybody would make their purchase based on temps.

1. Performance
2. price

Everything else excuses for fanboys and poor people.


Gonna have to agree with the others. Temperature is part of the performance. It's not always about raw power. I have more then enough money to throw around and I **** sure am not about to spend money on a product that could overheat and potentially fry my computer, when I can buy a GPU that runs cooler. It's not about being poor, it's about being a smart consumer.
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#25 Aug 09 2010 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for all the helpful replies. I figured it'd be a very close race between the two cards -- and I think I've come to the conclusion that the 5850 is the best overall if only because it's incredibly close in comparison to the 470 in terms of performance but also runs much cooler (which I understand is a large part of performance, especially considering I live in Florida where the temperature never seems to drop below 80), not to mention it's scored higher on the XIV benchmark (so far). I'll wait a few more weeks to see how the results play out, but this has really helped me in my decision making.

Quote:
I wouldn't buy that particular 5850 though, you can get them for ~$270.

Hmm. It is a tad pricy. How about this one?:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150477&cm_re=ati_hd_5850-_-14-150-477-_-Product

Not much less expensive, but meh. Looks good to me.
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#26 Aug 09 2010 at 10:05 PM Rating: Decent
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HooraySoysauce wrote:
Right because if your components overheat with x card, then they wouldn't with y card. If a gtx 470 overheats everything (lol) then the card is the least of your problems.

If you weren't somehow posting on these forums, I would question whether you even own a computer.

Hint: Modern components will throttle themselves to reduce their temperature instead of just letting them fry. That leads to, you guessed it, reduced performance. Saying you should consider performance instead of temperature is like saying you should think about your car's gas mileage instead of how much gas it uses.
#27 Aug 09 2010 at 11:00 PM Rating: Default
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You guys are arguing a situation that I haven't even heard of actually happening. An environment hot enough for a gtx 470 to overheat a system, but a 5850 wouldn't? Be realistic people. How dumb would it sound if I said a 5870 would overheat my system but a gtx 460 is so nice and icy?

A video card like the gtx 470 isn't going to cause a system to overheat and throttle itself 99.9% of the time. Yeah I made that statistic up. A crappy case and/or an oven for a room would, but a gtx 470 causing a system to throttle? Give me a freaking break already.
#28 Aug 09 2010 at 11:19 PM Rating: Default
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A GTX470 will cause itself to throttle, which is more than enough reason not to get it over a card which is almost identical in performance. Do you even seriously know what the **** you're talking about? When the Nvidia card is running a full 14C higher than the ATI, you'd have to be seriously stupid to go with the Nvidia card when the ATI perfectly suits your purposes.

Quote:
How dumb would it sound if I said a 5870 would overheat my system but a gtx 460 is so nice and icy?

Incredibly dumb, since it's already been statistically established that the cards are in fact the other way around. But go on believing that heat won't somehow dissipate through your case and it's all magically whisked away by fairies as soon as it's generated.
#29 Aug 09 2010 at 11:30 PM Rating: Default
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Majivo wrote:
A GTX470 will cause itself to throttle, which is more than enough reason not to get it over a card which is almost identical in performance. Do you even seriously know what the **** you're talking about? When the Nvidia card is running a full 14C higher than the ATI, you'd have to be seriously stupid to go with the Nvidia card when the ATI perfectly suits your purposes.

Quote:
How dumb would it sound if I said a 5870 would overheat my system but a gtx 460 is so nice and icy?

Incredibly dumb, since it's already been statistically established that the cards are in fact the other way around. But go on believing that heat won't somehow dissipate through your case and it's all magically whisked away by fairies as soon as it's generated.


How dare you spout your facts at me, they have no place here!
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#30 Aug 09 2010 at 11:38 PM Rating: Decent
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You make it seem as if these gtx 470s are overheating and throttling everywhere. Show me where these cards are overheating and exhibiting this behavior. Show me where they are causing overheating in other components. You can't can you? They will run at higher temps and can tolerate them well. The only prerequisite is that you have a case with decent airflow.

I never said to get an Nvidia card if an ATI card suits your purpose perfectly. If someone is going to buy their card based on just FFXIV performance so far then by all means they SHOULD buy an ATI card. I'm going to buy two of them just for this reason (and I would save $200+ over going with GTX 480s).
#31 Aug 09 2010 at 11:42 PM Rating: Default
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I never said they were constantly overheating; in fact, no one did. But you're pretending that heat output shouldn't be a factor in what components you choose, and that it's "excuses for fanboys and poor people", which is frankly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. You can build a computer out of components that are notorious for running hot if you want to; I'll be over using my cooler components with longer lifespan and better performance, not because they're inherently better, but because they're running a good 15C cooler.
#32 Aug 10 2010 at 12:11 AM Rating: Default
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You said yourself that it will cause itself to throttle. Another poster in this thread claimed that it would heat up other components and drop the performance all around. This is way overblown and you know it.

Quote:
But you're pretending that heat output shouldn't be a factor in what components you choose, and that it's "excuses for fanboys and poor people", which is frankly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.


At this point it shouldn't. The card in question will not drop the performance of the surrounding components any more than it's ATI counterpart. If these things are cooking systems to that extent then you must have plenty of examples.

I should have added that uninformed to that list, but whatever. Fanboys like to cite heat as a reason for why the 400 series fail since they have a hardon for the red side. Broke people will hate on the things they can't afford. Ignorant people will listen to random message board posters and draw a quick conclusion based off unrealistic scenarios. If that offends you then I'm sorry. Actually I'm not, be mad.

Quote:
You can build a computer out of components that are notorious for running hot if you want to; I'll be over using my cooler components with longer lifespan and better performance, not because they're inherently better, but because they're running a good 15C cooler.


Enjoy running a 58xx card for the next 10 years rofl. I do hope my super hot 5870s won't fry my system though. Oh well, all they have to do is last a couple years and I'll toss them out anyway. It's nice to not be broke.


#33 Aug 10 2010 at 1:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

I would advise people do some reading. A good source would be www.overclock.net

Currently, with the last few driver iterations, nvidia has made progress by leaps and bounds.

In some places, GTX 470s are catching up to HD 5870s.

470s are nowhere near as hot or power hungry as the GTX 480s either (they average 20+ degrees cooler than 480s).

Were I you, I would choose the GTX 470. I'm not a fanboi. I own both a 5870 and a 480. I'm currently waiting for my 2nd 480 to arrive this week. It blows the 5870 out of the water. And yes, I know that the OP is asking about 470, not 480, but 470s OC to 480 levels easily.
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#34 Aug 10 2010 at 1:33 AM Rating: Good
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Most of the threads I look up on card x vs card y tend to go like this. Some unbiased, useful information sticking to the point and others becoming more of a ******* contest between differing opinions. Not that there isn't any truth in it, but it tends to get exaggerated to 1-up the other guy. The original intent of being helpful comes off as something like "You got totally ripped off on card x, how could you be so dumb?" Not very helpful to the people with little experience involving gpus.
#35 Aug 10 2010 at 3:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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The fun part of ATI vs nVidia threads is that you can replace the terms with XBOX 360 and PS3 or Mac and PC or cake and pie and the arguments pretty much still work.
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#36 Aug 10 2010 at 3:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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bsphil wrote:
It's a fact, nVidia cards run hotter. You could nearly boil water with the temps that the 470 runs at under load (96 degrees C compared to 82 degrees C from the 5850).

You'll never be as cool as me. Your card runs 17% hotter.


With the new drivers, and using MSI Afterburner to setup a custom scale for fan speed my temps very rarely go above 80 degrees, when it goes over 85 I know because I have the fan speed set to go near 100% at that point. It rediculously loud at that point, luckily I don't get to that point unless I'm benching.

It's a matter of prefrence with these cards. Now with the price drops it's a tough call between the GTX 460 and 470, it just falls back to the needs of the user. For most, the 460 is fine. For me, I have SLI 470's now, and I plan on ditching my 8800 GTS at some point to get a newer card for PhysX. In the HAF X case compared to my CM 810 case the temps dropped alot on the GPUs, the GPU tunnel is awesome. Any one who has a GTX 465 or above should fabricate something like it. As to the ATI stuff, I used to be a big ATI fan, the price to performance ratio is usually really good. However the newer GTX cards from Nvidia have everything that I want (at some point 3d surround and 3dVision as well as the extra tesselation power).
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#37 Aug 10 2010 at 4:37 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia wrote:
The fun part of ATI vs nVidia threads is that you can replace the terms with XBOX 360 and PS3 or Mac and PC or cake and pie and the arguments pretty much still work.


So true, a lil while after writing that post of mine I started thinking about how that works with all kinds of arguments. Was reminded of moments where I've probably done the same thing because I had such a strong opinion on a subject. But since you mentioned cakes & pies...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0eDAEQRRBw
#38 Aug 10 2010 at 6:42 AM Rating: Default
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HooraySoysauce wrote:
Enjoy running a 58xx card for the next 10 years rofl. I do hope my super hot 5870s won't fry my system though. Oh well, all they have to do is last a couple years and I'll toss them out anyway. It's nice to not be broke.

If you - or more likely, your parents - have more money than sense, that's your own concern. But quit using it as a basis to be a moron and give out ****** advice to people on forums.
#39 Aug 10 2010 at 6:48 AM Rating: Good
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155 posts
Personally I'd go with the more simple Red Vs Blue as there is much more scope for nonsense (well, okay it would be hard pushed in comparison to this thread), and also greater imagination would be required.

Also, I'm of the opinion that NV messed up on the GTX 4xx range (GTX 460 excepted), that they do generally run hotter (greater stress on components), and are more expensive.

They do contain additional technology that the ATI cards don't but the games that use them are far and few between.

However a new range should be coming out near the end of this year/beginning of next year so we can all start this argument again. Personally I'll be sticking with my voodoo 2 and matrox millenium complete with pass through cable.

(I lie, I did have an 8600 GT, now use an X1950 XT and am planning on getting a 5850, but I am loathe to buy a new card with the new ones just around the corner... cure you SE. However I did have a matrox millenium and voodoo original actually...)
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#40 Aug 10 2010 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
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I like this review because they fraped it instead of running the in game benchmark.

http://www.techspot.com/review/283-geforce-gtx-400-vs-radeon-hd-5800/page4.html

I found it interesting. I hope it help some people out. The x11 benchmark for metro 2033 is surprising. Pay close attention to the wrap up.
#41HooraySoysauce, Posted: Aug 10 2010 at 8:05 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) For anybody that isn't sure which route to go for their next graphics card upgrade: look at how mad this young guy is getting. This is typical fanboy behavior at it's finest; trash the other card with examples that don't exist then insult whoever points it out. If he is telling the truth then he would start posting links showing that these cards will toast everything around them, but he knows this just isn't the case. Any example of that would be poor conditions in which any card would fail. I'll even look around for examples of it too just to help make sure people don't get bad cases for their ATI/Nvidia cards.
#42 Aug 10 2010 at 8:18 AM Rating: Decent
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447 posts
All -

As a poster above said, it appears that the 470's are running much better now than they were before. I researched the **** out of them before I just bought mine a couple weeks ago, and it appears that the reference design (model produced by Nvidia) was much hotter than models being produced today. It was also worth noting that even the reference model handled the heat well.

I have an eVGA superclocked edition. I've been monitoring temps and load like crazy. With stock clocks, this thing was hovering around 67-70 C at full load.

I know have it overclocked to 800/1600 with stock voltages and it stays around 87C. This allowed me to hit 4300 high / 4900 low which I am very content with.

The newer designs that manufacturers are producing are much better than it's Nvidia reference counterpart.

Given this, I made my decision solely based on performance (temps aside, as I considered them null and void) and price. After getting the EVGA 20% off coupon for an Nvidia card, it was a no-brainer - a 470 for $284

Hope this helps!

Edited, Aug 10th 2010 10:19am by KnocturnalOne
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#43HooraySoysauce, Posted: Aug 10 2010 at 8:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) *gasp* yourpcwilloverheatandshortenthelifeofcomponentsandyourenotasmartconsumerdurrrrr
#44 Aug 10 2010 at 8:43 AM Rating: Decent
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447 posts
HooraySoysauce wrote:
Quote:
Given this, I made my decision solely based on performance (temps aside, as I considered them null and void) and price.


*gasp* yourpcwilloverheatandshortenthelifeofcomponentsandyourenotasmartconsumerdurrrrr


Not sure how to take your response, though there is no need to ********************************************************

I don't consider the temps to be excessively high compared to ATI counterparts in the model I selected. It seems everyone bases the temps off the intitial reviews in April using the Nvidia reference model. The temps have come down considerably since then.
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#45 Aug 10 2010 at 9:01 AM Rating: Default
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I'm being sarcastic. Read the topic and it will make sense.
#46 Aug 10 2010 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
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HooraySoysauce wrote:
I'm being sarcastic. Read the topic and it will make sense.


You would get a much better response if you didn't come off as such an ***. Sorry to say, but even with your valid points, it's hard to take you seriously when you come off like you do. This isn't Reddit, your sarcasm or "wit" doesn't really carry well.

Try to be more respectful when making your argument. Calling everyone who doesn't own Nvidia cards cheap or a fanboy is a ridiculous statement, and given the current economy, not everyone can afford a nice new shiny case. You have money, good for you. Stop being so arrogant.

Quote:
*gasp* yourpcwilloverheatandshortenthelifeofcomponentsandyourenotasmartconsumerdurrrrr


Being a smart consumer simply means that you factor everything in when making your purchase. Mocking others for doing this makes you seem childish. When I buy all my PC components, I factor in performance, price, temperature, quality of the parts, etc. Like you I have more then enough money to buy pretty much any kind of parts I wish. I have that money because I don't just spend it without researching my parts first.

I'll say it again, tone it down and your view points will be received a whole lot better then they are now.

Edited, Aug 10th 2010 11:44am by Alkerr
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#47 Aug 10 2010 at 9:43 AM Rating: Default
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58 posts
Quote:
You would get a much better response if you didn't come off as such an ***. Sorry to say, but even with your valid points, it's hard to take you seriously when you come off like you do. This isn't Reddit, your sarcasm or "wit" doesn't really carry well.


So basically I should be more diplomatic even though I'm right? I won't argue with that, but why wasn't everybody tooting that horn earlier in the thread?

Quote:
Try to be more respectful when making your argument. Calling everyone who doesn't own Nvidia cards cheap or a fanboy is a ridiculous statement, and given the current economy, not everyone can afford a nice new shiny case. You have money, good for you. Stop being so arrogant.


Where exactly did I say that ATI owners are cheap and fanboys? I said myself that I'm going the ATI route this time and I don't consider myself cheap or a fanboy. I recognize that fanboys come in green too and they're equally ***.

I argued that the people that tend to push the "they're so hot they will fry your house etc" garbage are typically in that category and it's true. I feel no need to sugar coat this stuff when those people are trying to sway the spending decisions of others. Get your info right or gtfo when it comes to that stuff is my philosophy.

People still have a few weeks to get their money together before ffxiv. When spending the money they're spending on graphics cards, I would think a decent air cooling case is a minor expense. I'm sure there are many that are going all out and completely overhauling their systems so I think pushing this point is acceptable.
#48 Aug 10 2010 at 9:44 AM Rating: Decent
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126 posts
The reason I went with 2 of the 470's was because of nvsurround. I didn't want to fool with the displayport setup and surround #'s showed to be better with NVIDIA setups on multiple games. Heat be damned, you should know bleeding edge isn't cheap and might need better cooling. You should already know this if you overclock your CPU.

Gpu battles go back and forth all the time, its good for us the consumer. This time NVIDIA wasn't very good but once they get the fab process better you might see some really fast cards. Also ATI has a refresh incoming soon.

In the end just buy what you want, they both run todays games with no troubles.
#49 Aug 10 2010 at 9:53 AM Rating: Default
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58 posts
**** edits.

Quote:

Being a smart consumer simply means that you factor everything in when making your purchase. Mocking others for doing this makes you seem childish. When I buy all my PC components, I factor in performance, price, temperature, quality of the parts, etc. Like you I have more then enough money to buy pretty much any kind of parts I wish. I have that money because I don't just spend it without researching my parts first.

I'll say it again, tone it down and your view points will be received a whole lot better then they are now.


I don't put much stock into the heat of the cards because I know they aren't going to be a problem. I guess you could say that I already DID consider the heat factor, but stopped after realizing they wouldn't be a major concern.

I'm not going to tone this down as I said before. If someone wants to give advice on this stuff then they need to do what they can to make sure it's accurate.
#50 Aug 10 2010 at 9:57 AM Rating: Good
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175 posts
Quote:
I can't believe anybody would make their purchase based on temps.

1. Performance
2. price

Everything else excuses for fanboys and poor people.


This makes you come off as an Nvidia fanboy in my eyes. Regardless of what you said in later posts, read between the lines and you are basically calling anyone that chose to go with ATI either poor or a fanboy.

I find it difficult to have a rational discussion with people like you, regardless if you are correct or not. Your attitude of "OMG I am right and you are stupid!" is really annoying and apparently I am not the only one who hasn't received it well.

I don't know enough about either of these cards to sit here and argue about which is truly better. One thing I do know however, is that as a consumer, I am not about to go drop my money on components without looking at every pro and con of that part. A lot of the posters on this forum only have the money to upgrade their current GPU and they may not have the money to splurge on a new case. Calling them cheap is stupid and arrogant, and immediately makes me not even want to acknowledge your argument, be it right or wrong.

I am not saying your statements are correct or incorrect. I am trying to give you some sorely needed advice on how to approach others with your arguments.



Edited, Aug 10th 2010 12:18pm by Alkerr
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#51 Aug 10 2010 at 10:17 AM Rating: Default
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58 posts
Quote:
This makes you come off as an Nvidia fanboy in my eyes. Regardless of what you said in later posts, read between the lines and you are basically calling anyone that chose to go with a cheaper part is either poor or a fanboy.

I find it difficult to have a rational discussion with people like you, regardless if you are correct or not. Your attitude of "OMG I am right and you are stupid!" is really annoying and apparently I am not the only one who has received it well.

I don't know enough about either of these cards to sit here and argue about which is truly better. One thing I do know however, is that as a consumer, I am not about to go drop my money on components without looking at every pro and con of that part. A lot of the posters on this forum only have the money to upgrade their current GPU and they may not have the money to splurge on a new case. Calling them cheap is stupid and arrogant, and immediately makes me not even want to acknowledge your argument, be it right or wrong.

I am not saying your statements are correct or incorrect. I am trying to give you some sorely needed advice on how to approach others with your arguments.


No, I'm calling out the people that throw out false/exaggerated info and needling the spot for why they do it. I hate when people are dishonest about this stuff and lie for their own agenda. I never said don't consider price when buying, I encouraged it. Just don't spread garbage because your pockets aren't in good shape and you don't want others to enjoy what you couldn't. That also goes for the people that can afford a GTX 260 or 270, but not a 5870.

I don't care how you receive it at this point. You didn't seem to have a problem when another poster in this thread was approached in a less-than-polite way for saying something false, but you do when it's me. That tells me that it's not about me being a jerk. It must have something to do with your loyalty to a product or you just enjoy piling on. Either way you can be annoyed all you want. Get a kleenex and cry about it for all I care.

It's not arrogant, it's just a fact. Why buy some expensive card when you're just going to deprive it of airflow, then cry afterward and blame the card? I encourage smart spending; don't waste $300 when you could have spent another $100-$150 to make sure it would last and perform the way it's meant to. Too many people go cheap and expect the best; they need to be realistic.
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