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Things that WoW has, which FFXIV desperately needsFollow

#102 Aug 11 2010 at 8:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Zackary wrote:
Wrong. The cross-server messaging that Blizzard added a few months ago is EASILY one of my favorite features ever. I don't play WoW anymore, but when I saw that they added that, I thought to myself "Crap if only they had that when I was playing, that would have been super cool!"

I had a lot of friends irl that played WoW on other servers and stuff, and I actually ran into that when I played XI a lot too. It would have been nice to be able to chat with them without having to alt tab out of my window. :)


If you really wanted to talk to someone in a different server, POL allowed you to message friends. Granted, we don't know if anything like that is returning to FFXIV, but AFAIK the idea hasn't been shot down. I kept all of my characters on one server, though, so I used /tells and mainly used POL's messaging if they were offline or in the lobby updating.
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#103 Aug 11 2010 at 8:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeh but in WoW about the time u do achieve gear like Naxx 25 how many times you gonna run it or totc 25 especially when groups are like "link achievment" or "gear score" and after you do get in majority of them are a guild which will ninja the item lol.....
<<ninjad obsedian edgs <<<
#104 Aug 11 2010 at 8:47 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Totally agree with the obsolete gear @ expansion time comment tho, btw


Didn't SE just do that with Abyssea on a far grander scale than WoW ever did?

Just saying
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#105 Aug 11 2010 at 8:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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HallieXIV wrote:
I know I am fairly new here so I risk the wrath of the community by challenging someone held in such high esteem as Mikhalia but here goes......(draws deep breath).


I'm not some special awesome internet celebrity; you're just as entitled to disagree with me as anyone else is. I don't mind people disagreeing with me at all, so long as they have valid points, and you certainly seem to.

Again, the whole point of the thread, which was seemingly missed my many, was not that "everything in WoW is horrible" or that "WoW is the devil" but rather specifically that the logic that "WoW had X and WoW is popular, therefore in order to be popular, FFXIV needs X" is faulty.

Yes, there are a lot of features of WoW that would be nice; the mail system (but not the AH), the cross server LFG.

But after trying a number of MMOGs, the common thread I notice is that every ex-WoW (or current) player compares the game to WoW blanketly and gets angry and abrasive over everything about the game that is different. "WoW doesn't do this" "WoW doesn't look this way" "Why can't I do X? I can do X in WoW!" And it always, always, ALWAYS devolves into a "WoW vs X game" argument in general chat.

Interestingly enough, the MORE WoW-like a game is, the MORE FREQUENT the "WoW vs X Game" is. Allods looks like the spitting image of WoW and had someone comparing it to WoW every 5 minutes. DDO looks far different and the comparisons are maybe once every 30-60 minutes.

My whole thing is, when I play FFXIV, I don't want to hear about WoW. I don't want to hear what WoW had, I don't want to hear what WoW did better or worse, I don't want to hear why WoW is a better game or a worse game... I want to hear about FFXIV.

So in a way, my complaints about WoW are more generally directed at the players who want FFXIV to be more WoW-like. Even SE has come out and said this:

http://monkeyfish.mmofansites.com/posts/tag/game%20design

Tanaka: "We do not try to compete with World of Warcraft."

http://www.nowgamer.com/features/814/final-fantasy-xiv-hiromichi-tanaka-qa
NowGamer:How has your approach to MMO development changed alongside the market?

Tanaka:We had an alpha test for Final Fantasy XIV and received a lot of feedback from players in Japan, Europe and America. A lot of them said that ‘because World Of Warcraft works in this way then we also expect Final Fantasy XIV to play in the same way’. We heard that a lot and though we’re not trying to imitate any other games we are taking player feedback into account.


In short, the developers are making a conscious decision to NOT be like WoW. Look at all the subtle little nuances...
Quests are not quests, they are "guildleves"
Guilds are not groups of players, they are NPCs you can get guildleves from.

Already taking two common terms that are in MANY games (not just WoW but also Everquest, DDO, etc) and changing them to mean something ENTIRELY different.

I think that this is a GOOD thing, and here's why:

As I've already said, the more "WoW-like" a game is, the more you hear about how X or Y looks like or reminds someone of WoW, or how they feel WoW did X or Y better. Conversely, the LESS WoW-like FFXIV is, the LESS likely you are to hear mentions of it, after the initial hoopla.

So I was never saying "Don't include X for no reason than because X was in WoW" but rather "Just because X was in WoW is not a reason to include X". Review all the positive and negative aspects of adding a feature to FFXIV and then add it or don't. Whether or not that feature was in any other game should be irrelevant to the decision.
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#106 Aug 11 2010 at 9:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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<3 Mik :D

You know everyone's going to compare it to WoW because, for all intents and purposes WoW is the biggest, most successful MMO Ever.

Quote:
Tanaka: "We do not try to compete with World of Warcraft."


That doesn't mean you don't look at the competition, analyze the best features, and consider incorporating them into your own creation. The objective isn't to "be more like WoW" but to find what has been successful for others, and see what may help aid you in exceeding customer expectations in your own title.

I don't want FFXIV to be WoW. I wanted to play WoW, i'd play WoW. At the same time though, I don't want FFXIV to be FFXI either. Part of that lies in the storyline, but part of that also lies in seeing what you do VS what your competitors do, and try to refresh and update your design in such a way as to incorporate the best CONCEPTS from as many sources as possible.

On a daily basis, all you can do is ignore it. People are going to compare X to Y until the end of time, fully trying to justify why THEIR opinion is the best and only opinion. And you know what they say about opinions. Opinions are like @**holes. Everyone has one, and they ALL stink ;)

[yes, probably even mine :D ]
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#107 Aug 11 2010 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
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seneleron wrote:
<3 Mik :D

You know everyone's going to compare it to WoW because, for all intents and purposes WoW is the biggest, most successful MMO Ever.

Quote:
Tanaka: "We do not try to compete with World of Warcraft."


That doesn't mean you don't look at the competition, analyze the best features, and consider incorporating them into your own creation. The objective isn't to "be more like WoW" but to find what has been successful for others, and see what may help aid you in exceeding customer expectations in your own title.





Couldnt agree more. I preferred FFXI to WoW but quit FFXI earlier as I had gone as far as I could on the game. I didnt have 6 hours per sitting to be able to achieve anything worthwhile so I started playing WoW as a casual player. SOme of the casual elements of WoW work well, and if SE pick up on some of this, they can broaden the appeal of their game. That said, there were things that made FFXI great (such as the community) which was a bi-product of the difficulty in achieving anything. SE would have been successful if they can take the best from both worlds, merge them, and create the ultimate mmo. Have they been successful, we may all know soon enough!
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#108 Aug 11 2010 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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One thing I personally hope above all else is that all of the chat channels aren't constantly full of people wittering on about how unlike WoW the game is, or how WoW is better.

There were 2 disasters with Aion at server up - one was RMT, the other was WoW fanboys/girls.
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#109 Aug 11 2010 at 9:43 PM Rating: Good
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HallieXIV wrote:
One thing I personally hope above all else is that all of the chat channels aren't constantly full of people wittering on about how unlike WoW the game is, or how WoW is better.

There were 2 disasters with Aion at server up - one was RMT, the other was WoW fanboys/girls.


It's unavoidable.. Give it the free 30 days though and most of them will go away.

Eventually on general-use channels like that you just learn to tune that sort of thing out and look for what you're looking for, you're not going to have a conversation over them anyway (and if you are, you're doing it wrong)
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#110 Aug 11 2010 at 9:51 PM Rating: Default
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WoW licks ****

The only reason it's so successful is because it appeals to the masses, it's easy, redundant, and anyone can play it age 10-80. You don't have to know what you're doing to be good at the game. Then look at FFXI CoP 2-5, yeah, you need more than just to log on to win.

Anything watered down and convenient will always be successful, i.e. McDonalds, Starbucks, Walmart, etc.

/thread

Edited, Aug 11th 2010 11:52pm by Oenos
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#111 Aug 11 2010 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
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WoW has set the standard for any new developing mmorpg. I was there with the Aion launch and the wow fanboy comments in channels. At the time I hated wow and thought I quit for good, but let's face it, they are correct in how a game should be enjoyed. I was really excited about a FFXIV launch announcement last year, but now I have severe reservations. I played FFXI, this was my first mmo, and it was exciting, but also very disappointing when it came to support or progression.

Seeing FFXIV presented at E3 this summer, was pathetic. It would have been really something about four years ago, if it had been released at that time. (As an assumption) Due to the large amount of people that thought they could play the game on the PS3 on release date, and how many do not have a pc that can handle it, I am going to say that this game is a bust in almost every way. It will come out and only the fanboys will play the game. Heck I might even play the game, just because I got hooked on FF7, way back when.

To put everything in perspective. When I quit FFXI and went to wow, I came back about 4 years later. NOTHING in FFXI had changed except expansions pretty much. Everything about the menu and gameplay was still facepalm technology.

If you give me an arcade game, I will keep inserting quarters, until I get tired of seeing the same thing repeatedly. If it adjusts to my gameplay, then it will take us on and we will know the joy of a game.


#112 Aug 11 2010 at 10:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Lol this post is great!!! Can't wait!
#113 Aug 11 2010 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
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Parsalyn wrote:
WoW has set the standard for any new developing mmorpg.



Cant agree with you here.

WoW has set the standard for how to develop and run an mmorpg that is commercially succesful. It was made that way. It was made to be a very simple, push button, kills monsters, get exp, level up game that anyone from 12 to 80 could play as well as anyone else.

FFXI required a bit more thought, intelligence and time and so appealed to a more limited audience. An audience that typically wanted something of a challenge.

Look, I am not about to say WoW was awful, I played it for the last 5 years and generally had a good time but WoW is so different from FFXI that it is almost incorrect to consider them the same genre. There is nothing in WoW that a 12 year old with time could not accomplish. That 12 year old would not have got to level 20 in FFXI - not because of arrognance of the community but because of the skill requirement.

I hope that SE have sold out a little to the WoW model, and adopted some of the elements that made WoW succesful (solo play for example for some things), but not sold out so much. I dont want the average WoW player playing FFXIV - if they are, then the game will not be what I hope it is. Some WoW players (like many on these boards I suggest) will make the move from WoW to FFXIV, but I do hope SE have made the game involved enough that the idiots get left behind.
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#114 Aug 11 2010 at 11:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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seneleron wrote:
You know everyone's going to compare it to WoW because, for all intents and purposes WoW is the biggest, most successful MMO Ever.


Parsalyn wrote:
WoW has set the standard for any new developing mmorpg. I was there with the Aion launch and the wow fanboy comments in channels. At the time I hated wow and thought I quit for good, but let's face it, they are correct in how a game should be enjoyed.


There seems to be this fallacy that "Makes the most money" = "The best", or that "Has the most customers" = "The best". This is not directly true.

"Best" is a highly subjective term, and you can't accurately attribute such a broad, sweeping, subjective term based solely on something that has nothing to do with the actual product itself.

If you picked up ANY MMORPG, any one at all, and played it for a while, knowing only what you see and who you meet on your one server, you can try to guess how many people play the game, but:

1) How are you supposed to guess how many people are playing in total without knowing about how many servers there are, and:
2) Regardless of how many people are on your server, how do the ones who are not on your server, that you will never play with, impact your gameplay directly?

Remember that statistically speaking, Walmart is the highest grossing retailer and McDonalds is the highest grossing fast food chain. They have the most customers and they make the most money. Are people who claim that WoW is the "best MMORPG in the world" prepared to make the statements that "McDonalds makes the best food in the world" and that "Walmart is the best place to shop in the world"? I doubt it.

The main thing WoW has going for it, in fact, the primary thing that fuels the WoW hype machine, is popularity and ease of access. That's -it-. It's easy to pick up, easy to play, and a lot of people play it.

This alone, for many people, is reason enough to at least give the game a try. Look at the TV commercials you see for WoW, and notice that nearly all of them share a common thread: They have very little to do with the actual game and very much to do with "This popular actor/ress plays WoW". And it's effective advertising.

Look at this guy:
Screenshot

Now back at me. Now back at that guy. Now back at me.

Do you know what his name is? Probably not. (Isaiah Mustafa, incidentally) But you know what he sells. Old Spice.

Look at this commercial. Now back at me.

What does that commercial tell you about the ACTUAL PRODUCT? Very little. It's a scented body wash, and it's made by Old Spice. Where can you buy this? What scents does it come in? Do they sell other products too? It doesn't matter. It's 95% marketing, 5% product.

Now I'm not saying Old Spice is a bad product. I'm also not saying WoW is a bad product. It's easy to attract people with a ****** product and great marketing, but a ****** product won't KEEP customers, so WoW must have something going for it.

The point I'm getting at is, while you may feel WoW is a good product, or even a great one, you cannot declare it to be "the best" because different people enjoy different things. I tried WoW. Liked it for a while, and then came Wrath of the Lich King and that made me enjoy the game less and less until I quit.

The point is this: If you're going to argue that a game is the best, you are saying that all other games are inferior in every way, and therefore everyone should play this game and only this game. There are many other games out there which appeal to different types of players than WoW does. Games such as TOR, EVE, FFXI, RO, DDO... There are a number of games out there.

The biggest problem is that an -educated- consumer would try several games, compare them to each other, and decide what game they enjoyed most.

An UNEDUCATED consumer would assume that "Most popular" = "Best" and therefore use the most popular thing to judge all other things by.

Do these same people complain whenever other restaurants don't sell a happy meal? After all, McDonalds has happy meals, and they're the most popular, so every food place should have a happy meal. Whenever you walk into ANY eatery, you should complain that it needs to be more like McDonalds. It needs a yellow and red sign and it needs Big Macs and it needs a playplace because McDonalds has those and McDonalds is the best.
Do these same people complain whenever other stores don't have greeters at the door? After all, Walmart has greeters, and they're the most popular, so every retailer should have greeters. Whenever you walk into any retailer, you should complain that it needs to be more like Walmart. It needs workers in blue vests and "Rollback" signs and the ability to buy online and pick it up in the store.

This whole line of logic is faulty. Something that is popular and easy to use is not necessarily a BAD thing, but it not inherently "the best" either. Many people may simply prefer to eat at McDonalds and shop at Walmart, but there are still many others who would prefer Burger King or even Taco Bell. There are many others who would prefer Target or even Torrid.

Now sometimes the most popular product has some ideas that -are- worth stealing. Plenty of places thought a smaller meal for kids with a bonus was great. Plenty of places thought that in-store pickup was a spectacular idea.

Still, let other products exist on their own merits, stop trying to constantly compare every other product on the market to "the most popular one". Fact is, some people just don't like Walmart. Some people just don't like McDonalds. Some people just don't like WoW. If everyone tries to copy the biggest thing out there, the only place to eat will be Mcdonalds and McDonalds clones, every retailer will be Walmart or a Walmart clone, and every game will be WoW or a WoW clone.

Don't they try to teach you this in High School as part of that whole self-esteem boosting schtick? Stop trying to be like the popular kids and just be yourself. Stop comparing things to "what's popular" and enjoy something for what it is. Go rent a movie you've never heard of and stop complaining it lacks the production values of to summer blockbuster films. Go watch a little league game and stop complaining that they aren't as good as professional players.

Again, you don't ride a gokart and complain that driving a car is better; you don't go to a bowling alley and complain that Wii Sports is better...

Try something new and different, and stop trying to make everything be like something else. Who knows, you might actually enjoy something different.
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#115 Aug 12 2010 at 1:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Personally, this game looks more interesting than WoW to me and I've played WoW since vanilla. But, I'm sorry to say that just making this thread has put you into the bad category of Fanboi that those who made the exact same threads about Aion when it was in beta got put into.

I would assume that most people on this forum already like this game more than WoW or they would be sitting there refreshing their battle-net accounts all day. Where you could have made a thread for discussion about how FFXIV is better than WoW you decided to be childish and bash the game instead. No offense but its true. You don't see WoW players sitting on the WoW forums making threads like this, I wonder what that says about the players here... I hope it doesn't say much.

I'm not trying to flame you or anything and I don't think you should not tell how FFXIV is better than WoW. I just think it would be more mature to pull it off in a constructive manner than to post an immature thread that will obviously start a flame war between hardcore FFXIV fans(which are different than fanboi's) and people who also like WoW.


*EDIT* If I'm wrong, I'm sorry, thats just how this thread came off to me, I'm all for debating how one game is better than the other.

*EDIT2* I'd also like to point out that IMHO DDO > WoW

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 3:35am by Visceration
#116 Aug 12 2010 at 1:34 AM Rating: Good
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Visceration wrote:
Personally, this game looks more interesting than WoW to me and I've played WoW since vanilla. But, I'm sorry to say that just making this thread has put you into the bad category of Fanboi that those who made the exact same threads about Aion when it was in beta got put into.

I would assume that most people on this forum already like this game more than WoW or they would be sitting there refreshing their battle-net accounts all day. Where you could have made a thread for discussion about how FFXIV is better than WoW you decided to be childish and bash the game instead. No offense but its true. You don't see WoW players sitting on the WoW forums making threads like this, I wonder what that says about the players here... I hope it doesn't say much.

I'm not trying to flame you or anything and I don't think you should not tell how FFXIV is better than WoW. I just think it would be more mature to pull it off in a constructive manner than to post an immature thread that will obviously start a flame war between hardcore FFXIV fans(which are different than fanboi's) and people who also like WoW.


You're new here, so I'll just welcome you to the forums and explain that I have a sense of humor, and you seem to have "not gotten it", so to speak.

There's a difference between being a fanboy (There's no 'i" in fanboy, by the way) and making a tongue-in-cheek thread.

If you would take the time to read the rest of the thread, perhaps you would understand better what I mean behind the lighthearted OP.
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#117 Aug 12 2010 at 1:40 AM Rating: Good
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Visceration wrote:
*EDIT2* I'd also like to point out that IMHO DDO > WoW


Indeed it is, good sir.
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#118 Aug 12 2010 at 1:51 AM Rating: Good
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Well, then, I will apologize, I am new here and its 3:50am here so my mind has a little trouble interpreting stuff. When I went to put that message there was only one page but I spent time trying to word it and stuff which took a while because I was talking to my friend. Its just the op came off as bashing and instantly brought me back to the days of Aion beta where I tried to enjoy myself over the flame wars.

After I posted I realized it had spanned 3 pages already and then I read some other posts and thought "aw crap." Sorry for sorta bashing you.

And the reason why I used an i instead of a y in fanboy is that I picked up the habit from my friend. Bad habits die hard.
#119 Aug 12 2010 at 1:55 AM Rating: Good
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Visceration wrote:
Well, then, I will apologize, I am new here and its 3:50am here so my mind has a little trouble interpreting stuff. When I went to put that message there was only one page but I spent time trying to word it and stuff which took a while because I was talking to my friend. Its just the op came off as bashing and instantly brought me back to the days of Aion beta where I tried to enjoy myself over the flame wars.

After I posted I realized it had spanned 3 pages already and then I read some other posts and thought "aw crap." Sorry for sorta bashing you.

And the reason why I used an i instead of a y in fanboy is that I picked up the habit from my friend. Bad habits die hard.


No worries;s'all good. Welcome to our forums. And slap your friend with a dictionary. :)
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#120 Aug 12 2010 at 2:31 AM Rating: Good
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After reading up and found alot of new info after the NDA was loosen up, FFXIV... isn't going to be WoW like, nor is it going to be easy.

Both DoL/DoH seem complex enough that most ppl will need to ask vet. or read a guide to do it properly. maybe DoH is easier but DoL seem to require some knowledge and practie.

It also seem solo-able, but no worry for us who want to party/group there are alot of content, things such as skillchain (battle reigma i think), grp vs grp fighting or battle-positioning (breaking spefic body parts) are interesting contents that we might not get from soloing.

I played WoW for a period of time... grp play in WoW feel more like everyone doing their own thing and that seem to always works well enough. I doubt in FFXIV u will perform well without knowing your class/job.
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#121 Aug 12 2010 at 2:31 AM Rating: Decent
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digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
So you don't want characters with clothes and armor and swords?


I'll tell you what.. give me everything else and you can keep the clothes and armor... Seeing a bunch of Miqo'te streaking across Ezorea would make this game an instant hit. In fact just cut out every race except the Miqo'te.

---
On topic, I don't know yet too much of what FFXIV has to offer yet I'm sure it'll be pretty good. With this much buzz and anticipation over the game it had better be. I have to somewhat agree tho that it is kind of exciting exploring an enemy territory with risk of being attacked. But forced PvP will turn off alot of people. Still, if you really want to play PvP so badly there's a number of free MMO services out that that do so. Perfect World supports PvP after a certain level I think.

EDIT: By the way, this post was made after reading only the first page. I'm sure the rest has already been resolved already.

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 1:45am by SamusKnight
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#122 Aug 12 2010 at 2:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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SamusKnight wrote:
digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
So you don't want characters with clothes and armor and swords?


I'll tell you what.. give me everything else and you can keep the clothes and armor... Seeing a bunch of Miqo'te streaking across Ezorea would make this game an instant hit. In fact just cut out every race except the Miqo'te.


Screenshot
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#123 Aug 12 2010 at 2:47 AM Rating: Decent
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XD nice...
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#124 Aug 12 2010 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
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KarlHungis the Stupendous wrote:
PerrinofSylph wrote:
Olorinus wrote:
yeah why are you trying to make the only taco place sell cheeseburgers, people?


Don't Taco Bell and Del Taco both offer a form of Burger? I dunno I've been deprived of both for a few years now living overseas...


Only if you consider a taco or burrito to be a burger. Maybe Del Taco does (there aren't any around where I live any more), but Taco Bell is strictly tex-mex-stuff they made up in order to give you heart disease.

Jack-in-the-Box though, has good burgers AND tacos AND egg rolls. My all time favorite fast food place. Too bad I moved back from Socal to Chicago.


Taco Bell use to have the Bellbeefer. It was taco meat and cheese in a bun.
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#125 Aug 12 2010 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree with Eske on this completely. I think the spirit of this thread came from a hostile place and its very unfortunate and telling that someone did this before the game is even out yet. This thread presents an immature and xenophobic message, that if you're going play FFXIV you have to have some kind of issue with WoW or your not in the club.
#126 Aug 12 2010 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
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AngusX wrote:
Taco Bell use to have the Bellbeefer. It was taco meat and cheese in a bun.


Hmm, I totally missed that ever happening. Taco on a bun...I could see why it was discontinued.
#127 Aug 12 2010 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I think in the 1st few months of game play from release we are gonna see the comparison between other games in FFXIV chat. So i say let them get it out of their system those of us who don't care and just want to play FFXIV as it is, we can ignore them for now. we will get this again come PS3 release in March 2011 for a couple more months and finally after a year of release it will all be gone and we can just play FFXIV as it is. people will hate or love the game those that hate will leave, with no great loss.

So have fun playing and see you all in game come Sept 22nd
#128 Aug 12 2010 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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#129 Aug 12 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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Nevrast wrote:
I agree with Eske on this completely. I think the spirit of this thread came from a hostile place and its very unfortunate and telling that someone did this before the game is even out yet. This thread presents an immature and xenophobic message, that if you're going play FFXIV you have to have some kind of issue with WoW or your not in the club.


How about you go ahead and re-read the entire thread and point out where I claimed that there was any "club" or that the requirements for playing FFXIV and/or joining said "club" are bashing WoW?

If you had actually read my posts, and it's quite clear you haven't, you would know that this is a blatant misinterpretation of both what was said and what was meant.
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#130 Aug 12 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
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#131 Aug 12 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Default
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...an expectedly rude and self-entitled reply from the OP, not being able to see the forest for the trees etc. I don't know how old you are in reality, but you have the emotional development of about a 16-18 year old. Also, the word "club" really bothers you, and my point remains...only a emotionally undeveloped person would make a "joke" thread that's really just a snide way of trying to put people who don't agree with them in their place, so they can feel better about themselves. Buh-bye and have fun playing FFXIV, hopefully it will always be on your terms eh?

#132 Aug 12 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nevrast wrote:
...an expectedly rude and self-entitled reply from the OP, not being able to see the forest for the trees etc. I don't know how old you are in reality, but you have the emotional development of about a 16-18 year old. Also, the word "club" really bothers you, and my point remains...only a emotionally undeveloped person would make a "joke" thread that's really just a snide way of trying to put people who don't agree with them in their place, so they can feel better about themselves. Buh-bye and have fun playing FFXIV, hopefully it will always be on your terms eh?



Are you dense, illiterate, or just trying to troll me?

Try making an argument without putting words in my mouth to do it. Considering I have not said any of the stuff you accuse me of saying, nor have I implied any of the stuff you accuse me of implying, you seem to be really reaching in an effort to try to goad me into an argument. Is that it? Are you just trying to provoke me to argue with you because you have nothing better to do?

I have made several posts in this thread, all of which you have conveniently ignored because they don't help your point (if you even have one) at all.

Again, I repeat: please point out where in this thread that I explicitly stated any of this.
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#133Nevrast, Posted: Aug 12 2010 at 1:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm not playing your game kid. Run along and reflect. Please...
#134 Aug 12 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nevrast wrote:
I'm not playing your game kid. Run along and reflect. Please...


What game? You started this argument, now you can't finish it.
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#135 Aug 12 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Does it NEEDanything from WoW? Of course not. It just NEEDS to be a good game.

It would be nice if they implemented the typical mouse/keyboard controls that every other MMO uses and not be lazy. And, I of course would love PvP, but it's not a game breaker.

As for the OP. Sure it was tongue in cheek. But that tongue was laced with a bit of vitriol, right? ;)
#136 Aug 12 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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OldKnees wrote:
Does it NEEDanything from WoW? Of course not. It just NEEDS to be a good game.

It would be nice if they implemented the typical mouse/keyboard controls that every other MMO uses and not be lazy. And, I of course would love PvP, but it's not a game breaker.

As for the OP. Sure it was tongue in cheek. But that tongue was laced with a bit of vitriol, right? ;)


Only a drop or two. I don't hold ill will towards "that other game" directly; I played it myself for years. I just don't want a game that tries to be like "that other game".
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#137 Aug 12 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
OldKnees wrote:
Does it NEEDanything from WoW? Of course not. It just NEEDS to be a good game.

It would be nice if they implemented the typical mouse/keyboard controls that every other MMO uses and not be lazy. And, I of course would love PvP, but it's not a game breaker.

As for the OP. Sure it was tongue in cheek. But that tongue was laced with a bit of vitriol, right? ;)


Only a drop or two. I don't hold ill will towards "that other game" directly; I played it myself for years. I just don't want a game that tries to be like "that other game".


You and me both. I will continue to play WoW so I definitely do not want XIV to be similar at all.

And one or two drops aren't bad, no heartburn from that!
#138 Aug 12 2010 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, my whole recurring point through the entire thread is that FFXIV should be a good game on its own with its own features. Perhaps some of those features might be shared with other games on the market, but the logic that "WoW had X and WoW was popular and popular means good therefore for FFXIV to be good, it must be popular and therefore must have X because WoW had X, otherwise FFXIV will be bad" is horribly flawed, yet people seem to use it.

There are plenty of good features from other games that are worth implementing into WoW, but there are no features from any game (WoW or otherwise) that need to be implemented for no reason other than "This other game has it".

That's all.
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#139 Aug 12 2010 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia wrote:
Nothing. Not a **** thing. If you disagree, you are wrong and can go play WoW instead.


How about a loyal fanbase?

Look, I hate the people who jump into these forums and call their characters "toons" as much as the next guy: the terminology is mutually exclusive. I'm just tired of FFXI die-hards who think that WoW has absolutely nothing to offer as a model for other MMOs. I don't think FFXIV should have a dedicated PvP element, but if you are arguing against even a ballista-type thing for gits and shiggles then you must have really gotten destroyed in WoW PvP. Ballista offered no real rewards and was just something fun to do to pass the time.

You're afraid people will call you out and demand a duel from you? Here's an idea: just act like a grownup and say, "Nope." I did this all the time in WoW when people would call me out; I would simply say that I don't PvP, but if they wanted to run a damage meter during a raid I would be happy to destroy them at that. Pick and choose your battles. Just because something is there does not mean you have to partake in it.
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#140 Aug 12 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
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Mik, you know I'm only picking on you @ this point, right? :P


Quote:
There seems to be this fallacy that "Makes the most money" = "The best", or that "Has the most customers" = "The best". This is not directly true.


And you're absolutely right.

I never said it was the "best" though ;)

Quote:
You know everyone's going to compare it to WoW because, for all intents and purposes WoW is the biggest, most successful MMO Ever.


See? Not once did I say "best" :D

Again, I'm only nitpickin' ya @ this point... I think deep down we're all lookin' @ the same page, we're just looking from different perspectives.

Though, in all honesty, I can think of ONE ULTIMATE THING Which WoW has that FFXIV DESPERATELY NEEDS:

RTM Release :P



This edit brought to you by the letter Y, who tried to go AWOL in the word "honesty" and had to be dragged back to the forum post kicking and screaming.. and had to be doped up with 1000mg Thorazine to get him to stay there



Edited, Aug 12th 2010 4:24pm by seneleron
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#141 Aug 12 2010 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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BottlecapBandit wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:
Nothing. Not a **** thing. If you disagree, you are wrong and can go play WoW instead.


How about a loyal fanbase?

Look, I hate the people who jump into these forums and call their characters "toons" as much as the next guy: the terminology is mutually exclusive. I'm just tired of FFXI die-hards who think that WoW has absolutely nothing to offer as a model for other MMOs. I don't think FFXIV should have a dedicated PvP element, but if you are arguing against even a ballista-type thing for gits and shiggles then you must have really gotten destroyed in WoW PvP. Ballista offered no real rewards and was just something fun to do to pass the time.

You're afraid people will call you out and demand a duel from you? Here's an idea: just act like a grownup and say, "Nope." I did this all the time in WoW when people would call me out; I would simply say that I don't PvP, but if they wanted to run a damage meter during a raid I would be happy to destroy them at that. Pick and choose your battles. Just because something is there does not mean you have to partake in it.


I'll just let you read this. It already explains why I dislike PvP games, even if I don't partake in PvP.

I'll also let you read this, a thread with a ton of people besides myself who would not even -PLAY- FFXIV if it had PvP.

And besides, this thread isn't about PvP; it never was. Read the post right above yours.

Nowhere in there or the OP did I mention PvP at all. No, I don't like PvP, and yes, I have plenty of reasons for not liking it, and yes, those reasons STILL apply even if I can opt out of PvP entirely, but that's not what this thread is about; there are other threads about PvP if you want to argue that. Considering that SE has blatantly said there will not be PvP, there's not really much to argue about, but there you go.

If you want to argue my initial point, then it is this:

Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Yeah, my whole recurring point through the entire thread is that FFXIV should be a good game on its own with its own features. Perhaps some of those features might be shared with other games on the market, but the logic that "WoW had X and WoW was popular and popular means good therefore for FFXIV to be good, it must be popular and therefore must have X because WoW had X, otherwise FFXIV will be bad" is horribly flawed, yet people seem to use it.

There are plenty of good features from other games that are worth implementing into WoW, but there are no features from any game (WoW or otherwise) that need to be implemented for no reason other than "This other game has it".

That's all.


If you disagree, then the onus is on you to explain why the mere fact that another game has a feature and that game is popular is the SOLE DECIDING FACTOR for including it into another unrelated game, and that NOTHING ELSE SHOULD BE CONSIDERED.

If you can't explain that, then you agree with the point I am making.
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#142 Aug 12 2010 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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seneleron wrote:
Mik, you know I'm only picking on you @ this point, right? :P


Quote:
There seems to be this fallacy that "Makes the most money" = "The best", or that "Has the most customers" = "The best". This is not directly true.


And you're absolutely right.

I never said it was the "best" though ;)

Quote:
You know everyone's going to compare it to WoW because, for all intents and purposes WoW is the biggest, most successful MMO Ever.


See? Not once did I say "best" :D

Again, I'm only nitpickin' ya @ this point... I think deep down we're all lookin' @ the same page, we're just looking from different perspectives.

Though, in all honesty, I can think of ONE ULTIMATE THING Which WoW has that FFXIV DESPERATELY NEEDS:

RTM Release :P



This edit brought to you by the letter Y, who tried to go AWOL in the word "honesty" and had to be dragged back to the forum post kicking and screaming.. and had to be doped up with 1000mg Thorazine to get him to stay there


Nothing wrong with nitpicking individual points. I won't argue that WoW is widely successful, merely that people who don't like the most successful MMOG or the most successful retailer or the most successful food chain should have options available to them that are significantly different, and the more you try to emulate individual facets of something successful, the more you become like that thing.

You can't copy McDonalds and be more successful than McDonalds. You can't copy Walmart and be more successful than Walmart, and you can't copy WoW and be more successful than WoW.

The main things WoW has going for it is that it has a massive marketing campaign behind it and that it was in the right place at the right time. I'll come out and freely say that no game can hope to touch WoW's success unless Blizzard does something horribly wrong and causes WoW to collapse. This is mainly because there can only be so many people playing MMORPGs, and there are only so many people left in the world who would play an MMORPG but haven't found one they liked.

It's logical to assume that there are two types of MMO players: There are those who have found a game they liked and there are those who have not.

You CAN'T win over people who have found a game they liked unless you make a game they will like BETTER. If you try to COPY their game, they're just going to try your product and go back to the original because no game will ever be a better WoW than WoW is.

The only way to make people come to your game and stay, and the only way to attract people who don't like other games, is to offer something NEW AND DIFFERENT that they HAVEN'T seen before and take a gamble that people will like it.

A lot of companies follow the same faulty logic that if they copy aspects of a popular product, they will be as popular as that product.

No off-brand shoes will be as popular as brand name shows. Store-brand sodas and foods will never be as popular as the original either. Indeed, emulation is the sincerest form of flattery, but emulation will only get you so far before most of your consumer base has realized that you're not offering them anything notably different. After playing the same MMORPG for 2, 3, 5+ years, people will inevitably get burned out, and when they do, the only way to get them to come over and try your product is to make a bold move and offer something that hasn't been done before.

As far as WoW, or FFXI, or any other MMORPG goes, there are three types of players: Those who are happy and will not leave, those who would consider leaving for something better, and those who are sick of it and want something better. You can never hope to attract the first group, ever, no matter how much you make your product like theirs. You can only hope to attract the disenfranchised players (and the group of players who just haven't found a game they like) by offering something that other games DO NOT offer.

That's it. WoW is immensely popular and is not going to be dethroned for a while. I may not be a fan of the game anymore, but I tip my hat to its success. The point I have been driving at this whole time, which some people (and you are not one of them, this statement is directed in general) are failing to grasp that while it may sound logical to capitalize on another game's success, that's not the best move in the long run; all that will do is buy you a giant startup crowd who will quickly abandon your game for what they were playing before (See also: Warhammer, Age Of Conan, etc).

So here's my question: Do we want FFXIV to have a ******** of players at first and have the game drop to 10% of that in 3-4 months, or do we want to have fewer players, but a solid group of people who are going to stick with the game for years to come? I don't want to play a game that tries to appeal to everyone and is a revolving door of new people looking for something better and not finding it; I want to play a game that says "This is the type of player we hope to attract", and is a great home for them for years to come.

If you try to please everyone, you will please no one. Instead, find a group of people who will be dedicated and loyal, and offer them a reason to choose your game over any other. Offer them something different.
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#143 Aug 12 2010 at 4:18 PM Rating: Default
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Just because.
http://www.freakygaming.com/gallery/fan_art/world_of_warcraft/loyalty_tauren_lion_love.jpg

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 6:19pm by Lefein
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#144 Aug 12 2010 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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#145 Aug 12 2010 at 4:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Geez, I missed alot of action in this thread. Rewind abit and let me say that the Old Spice Guy is awesome. Why? Because I don't watch TV. It's commercial that is so great that my wife brought it up on Youtube and I chose to watch it voluntarily. The future of commercials are advertisements that are entertaining enough to passed around volutarily. Genius.

There was some point about Warcraft in there, but it's not as important the Old Spice Guy.

I'm on a horse.
#146 Aug 12 2010 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
#147 Aug 12 2010 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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Lamnethx of the Seven Seas wrote:


Would be better if it had the whistling at the end instead of someone saying "do do doot..." etc
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#148 Aug 12 2010 at 5:00 PM Rating: Good
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I can't stand most commercials, the new Old Spice ads included. They could be worse though...like car insurance or credit score commercials. It's like their purpose is to annoy the **** out of you, but **** you off so much in the process that you'll always remember their product's name. Which ****** me off on another level because it works! They pretty much kill any chance of me ever using their product/service though.
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#149 Aug 12 2010 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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TwistedOwl wrote:
I can't stand most commercials, the new Old Spice ads included. They could be worse though...like car insurance or credit score commercials. It's like their purpose is to annoy the **** out of you, but **** you off so much in the process that you'll always remember their product's name. Which ****** me off on another level because it works! They pretty much kill any chance of me ever using their product/service though.


http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3151690&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

There you go. A thread all about sh*tty commercials. Enjoy :)

The OP is two years old, but it's like 110 pages long. Most of these commercials are still around or are not too old.

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 7:06pm by Mikhalia
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#150 Aug 12 2010 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
TwistedOwl wrote:
I can't stand most commercials, the new Old Spice ads included. They could be worse though...like car insurance or credit score commercials. It's like their purpose is to annoy the **** out of you, but **** you off so much in the process that you'll always remember their product's name. Which ****** me off on another level because it works! They pretty much kill any chance of me ever using their product/service though.


http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3151690&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

There you go. A thread all about sh*tty commercials. Enjoy :)

The OP is two years old, but it's like 110 pages long. Most of these commercials are still around or are not too old.

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 7:06pm by Mikhalia


That's awesome, some of those are so hilarious, this guy summed up how I feel about many commercials...
"That stupid psuedo-anime esurance girl makes me want to stab forks in my eyes"...or ears for those musical ones...
#151 Aug 12 2010 at 5:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
TwistedOwl wrote:
I can't stand most commercials, the new Old Spice ads included. They could be worse though...like car insurance or credit score commercials. It's like their purpose is to annoy the **** out of you, but **** you off so much in the process that you'll always remember their product's name. Which ****** me off on another level because it works! They pretty much kill any chance of me ever using their product/service though.


http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3151690&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

There you go. A thread all about sh*tty commercials. Enjoy :)

The OP is two years old, but it's like 110 pages long. Most of these commercials are still around or are not too old.

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 7:06pm by Mikhalia


That's awesome, some of those are so hilarious, this guy summed up how I feel about many commercials...
"That stupid psuedo-anime esurance girl makes me want to stab forks in my eyes"...or ears for those musical ones...


It'll probably take you a week to comb the entire thing, but it's worth it.

It's something to do to waste time till the 16th :)
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