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Things that WoW has, which FFXIV desperately needsFollow

#152 Aug 13 2010 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia wrote:
I'll also let you read this, a thread with a ton of people besides myself who would not even -PLAY- FFXIV if it had PvP.


The majority of people who said PvP would be a deal-breaker also included that the PvP would be mandatory. Forget Ballista, but PvP was never even mandatory in WoW: the two separate endgames, both PvE and PvP, were mutually exclusive. I PvPed when PvE became boring in WoW, and I used to do Ballista in FFXI on occasion for fun.

Trust me, I don't want FFXIV to play like a WoW clone, and I understand that you want FFXIV to operate in its own niche. I agree with you that just because WoW has "x" and is successful, all other MMOs must have "x" to be successful is faulty logic: it isn't transitive. However, you seem to be operating with a FFXI bias that just because that game didn't have a major (or any real) PvP element, neither should this MMO.

All that said, it doesn't seem FFXIV will have any real PvP to speak of, and I guess that's okay, but they should at the very least include something akin to Ballista simply because it's something to do that kills time that I know many people found fun, and this is, again, coming from someone who didn't full-time PvP in WoW.


P.S.- Nice avatar by the way; I love Nuklear Power.
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#153 Aug 13 2010 at 1:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Its all about balance. PvP and PvE stats have to be balanced/managed. Tweak a class's skill and you have to worry about it killing a PvE dragon too quick, but also you have to make it so you aren't one shotting people in PvP.

Granted I think SE has learned a lot an if they do make a PvP system in the future I'll trust they'll do it well. (Although I only really see it being a coliseum type thing.) But on the whole, as I stated in a previous post; it's not a deal breaker.

Rather than PvP, I wish SE would make certain 'mini-games' either card games or chocobo races that weren't based on player stats. I think that is what is missing from MMOs today is variety in quests and in play.

One thing that WoW did have to break up some of the "kill this, gather this" quest monotony was the ability to control vehicles or to go in the air and drop bombs. I don't see this happening but the main point is (pretty much what Mik has been saying) is give me something new and exciting and not rehashed slop.

#154 Aug 13 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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1,457 posts
1. I like the random dungeon finder a lot. I wouldn't mind seeing something like this in FFXIV.
2. I still thinking jumping and swimming are fun and immersive.
3. PvP is really fun. Ballista was terrible.

FFXIV may not desperately need these things from WoW, but WoW is not the only game that has them. Almost every MMO that was released in the last 5 years or will be released in the next 5 will have these elements. It's sad that this has turned in to another FFXVI vs WoW thread when the things people asked for are not native to only WoW and were in fact found in a plethora of games prior to World of Warcraft. If SE added these things and put effort in to them, I think most people would begin to enjoy them once they had the chance to experience it. I'm still really excited, but I will miss some of the elements I experienced in other games. SE is just really good at making up for it in other ways.





Edited, Aug 13th 2010 12:40pm by GuardianFaith
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#155 Aug 13 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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GuardianFaith wrote:
1. I like the random dungeon finder a lot. I wouldn't mind seeing something like this in FFXIV.
2. I still thinking jumping and swimming are fun and immersive.
3. PvP is really fun. Ballista was terrible.

FFXIV may not desperately need these things from WoW, but WoW is not the only game that has them. Almost every MMO that was released in the last 5 years or will be released in the next 5 will have these elements. It's sad that this has turned in to another FFXVI vs WoW thread when the things people asked for are not native to only WoW and were in fact found in a plethora of games prior to World of Warcraft. If SE added these things and put effort in to them, I think most people would begin to enjoy them once they had the chance to experience it. I'm still really excited, but I will miss some of the elements I experienced in other games. SE is just really good at making up for it in other ways.


I have tried PvP. I don't enjoy killing other players and I don't enjoy being killed -by- other players.

If you can find a way to implement PvP that does not involve me killing other players, fighting against other players, or being killed by or attacked by other players, then I might like it.

And yes, I'm well aware that this is exactly what PvP is; I've tried it. I don't like it.

Op top of that, and knowing that I don't like PvP because I have tried it, I don't like it when people who like PvP try to convince me to try it because "oh come on, it's fun!" And if the game HAS PvP at all, even if it is optional, I will get this. FFXIV didn't even have much PvP but I still got the occasional "Come to Ballista with us! Come on, it's fun! You'll like it!" or "Why don't you 1v1 me in Diorama you @#%^er? Are you a @#%^? Come on 1v1 @#%^!!!" It's annoying.

Despite WoW having PvE and PvP separated, I still got asked, frequently, to join someone's arena team or to do a battleground. I remember all the holiday achievements where I -had- to be -forced- to go into a BG to get them, and what do I get? Killed. A lot. Remember the one where you have to turn into a Christmas gnome? That sh*t took HOURS because I kept dying. People will gang up on you, snare/root you, or just obliterate you.

I've tried dueling. It's no fun either. People just keep jumping over me and spinning around or stunning me and I spend the entire fight spinning in circles and dying with "You cannot see your target" on my screen over and over and over.

That's what PvP is. It's annoying as sh*t to me, and I don't like it at all.

And yours isn't the only post to try to suggest to me that "you'd like it if you gave it a try". That's one of the things I hate most about PvP: No one is willing to accept the fact that I just don't like it and don't want to be asked to try it. I have tried it, I didn't like it. Trying it again will not make me like it. Asking me to try it again aggravates me.

No resentment or ill will towards you for the post, I'm just sayin.

And again, this topic STILL isn't about PvP.

Now I -will- say that the random dungeon finder was nice (Although I didn't like the fact that it teleported you to the dungeon instead of making you walk there as a group; it made the game too easy, but sinc eit was cross-server, you couldn't really walk there as a group anyway. Still, if you joined a group of 5 people on your server and queued, it still teleported you to the dungeon. I like the idea, without the free teleport.

I'll also say that swimming and jumping are nice when they are required for the game and serve a purpose. If there's nowhere to swim to underwater or no islands, and there's nothing accomplished by jumping that cannot also be accomplished by walking, then they aren't needed, but if the game had been designed with water and platforms in mind from the start, then they would have been fine.

Edited, Aug 13th 2010 3:59pm by Mikhalia
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Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#156 Aug 13 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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I love IRC.

(04:05:16 PM) Tyapex: maybe they love you and they are just trying to show you the joys of pvp by having a rate down battle
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[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#157 Aug 13 2010 at 7:41 PM Rating: Good
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2,535 posts
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Op top of that, and knowing that I don't like PvP because I have tried it, I don't like it when people who like PvP try to convince me to try it because "oh come on, it's fun!" And if the game HAS PvP at all, even if it is optional, I will get this. FFXIV didn't even have much PvP but I still got the occasional "Come to Ballista with us! Come on, it's fun! You'll like it!" or "Why don't you 1v1 me in Diorama you @#%^er? Are you a @#%^? Come on 1v1 @#%^!!!" It's annoying.


I prefer to use my two best friends, Mr. Blacklist and Mrs. Selective-Inattention. If not for them, I'd be furiously posting in trade chat and yelling over vent constantly.

Ms. Do-Not-Say-This-On-Pain-Of-/Gkick can be convincing too...
#158 Aug 14 2010 at 4:47 AM Rating: Good
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2,120 posts
BastokFL wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Op top of that, and knowing that I don't like PvP because I have tried it, I don't like it when people who like PvP try to convince me to try it because "oh come on, it's fun!" And if the game HAS PvP at all, even if it is optional, I will get this. FFXIV didn't even have much PvP but I still got the occasional "Come to Ballista with us! Come on, it's fun! You'll like it!" or "Why don't you 1v1 me in Diorama you @#%^er? Are you a @#%^? Come on 1v1 @#%^!!!" It's annoying.


I prefer to use my two best friends, Mr. Blacklist and Mrs. Selective-Inattention. If not for them, I'd be furiously posting in trade chat and yelling over vent constantly.

Ms. Do-Not-Say-This-On-Pain-Of-/Gkick can be convincing too...


You can't win with kids like that(scarier thought is that some may be adults). You don't fight, you're a chicken-wuss, if you fight and lose you suck, & if you fight and win you're some kind of cheater. Who needs to deal with that kind of nonsense? Though I'm not saying those who enjoy PvP are all like that. I'm sure many of you can be good sports about the whole thing...
#159 Aug 14 2010 at 8:07 AM Rating: Decent
13 posts
Awesome thread lol i was wondering what silly crap was gonna be posted in here. But it could def use some more cowbell!
#160 Aug 14 2010 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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2,535 posts
TwistedOwl wrote:
BastokFL wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Op top of that, and knowing that I don't like PvP because I have tried it, I don't like it when people who like PvP try to convince me to try it because "oh come on, it's fun!" And if the game HAS PvP at all, even if it is optional, I will get this. FFXIV didn't even have much PvP but I still got the occasional "Come to Ballista with us! Come on, it's fun! You'll like it!" or "Why don't you 1v1 me in Diorama you @#%^er? Are you a @#%^? Come on 1v1 @#%^!!!" It's annoying.


I prefer to use my two best friends, Mr. Blacklist and Mrs. Selective-Inattention. If not for them, I'd be furiously posting in trade chat and yelling over vent constantly.

Ms. Do-Not-Say-This-On-Pain-Of-/Gkick can be convincing too...


You can't win with kids like that(scarier thought is that some may be adults). You don't fight, you're a chicken-wuss, if you fight and lose you suck, & if you fight and win you're some kind of cheater. Who needs to deal with that kind of nonsense? Though I'm not saying those who enjoy PvP are all like that. I'm sure many of you can be good sports about the whole thing...


Who said anything about winning?

Idiots aren't worthy of my notice, so I'll just be over here happily not noticing them. I have better things to do with my time than get angry at idiots I have no respect for. To paraphrase Epictetus, why care about the opinions of idiots?



Like that time I was leveling my new rogue in Teldrassil and some guy came up to me spamming duel requests. Blacklist shut him up really good (in WoW, duel requests from people on your blacklist are automatically refused - the window doesn't even pop up) - I didn't even have to see him do whatever whining it is he felt like doing, I just got back to killing my quest mobs and laughing at the trail of duel flags that would fly down and immediately fly back up.
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