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Poll: Should FFXIV have PVP?Follow

#1 Aug 11 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Default
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Should FFXI Have PVP?
Yes :0 (%)
No :0 (%)
Total:0


A simple yes or no on the poll will suffice; however, if you want to go further into detail, that will be fine in the comment box. Thanks!

Edited, Aug 11th 2010 11:05pm by TkdGunter
#2 Aug 11 2010 at 1:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Sigh I fail too.

Edited, Aug 11th 2010 2:38pm by Zeios
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#3 Aug 11 2010 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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#4 Aug 11 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Well then. Hopefully a mod can just delete this topic then =/.
#5 Aug 11 2010 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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Just make it not a poll in the title. We can still discuss. And maybe someone will make one for you.

I don't think anyone would say no. Some will answer yes if they enjoy PVP. But anyone who does not like PvP will simply not participate. If there is a poll made it could say:

1.) Sure, I love me some PvP.
2.) I would rather SE spend their time and effort on additional PvE content.
3.) No way, PvP is for competition. I prefer cooperation.
4.) No way, It's impossible to balance PvE and PvP.
5.) Sure, just balance the players' abilities only while in the PvP Arena. After leaving, players return to their normal PvE ability strengths.

Edited, Aug 11th 2010 7:16pm by RufuSwho
#6 Aug 11 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Well then. Hopefully a mod can just delete this topic then =/.


Or we can keep bumping it so your shame can haunt you for even longer! That sounds fun!
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#7 Aug 11 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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You can leave your poll up, usually someone with premium is kind enough to fix it for you...
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#8 Aug 11 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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I wanna corpse-camp Pikko!
#9 Aug 11 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Work out some good wording and I'll gladly change the front page poll to this.
#10 Aug 11 2010 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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No. PVP turns everyone -- EVERYONE -- into dbags.
see: Aion
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#11 Aug 11 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Decent
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w34v3r wrote:
No. PVP turns everyone -- EVERYONE -- into dbags.
see: Aion


What little I played of WOW, yeah this seemed to be the case. PVP=major douchebags.

I like the way they handle PVP in FFXI as ballista. It didn't do extremely well, least from my experience with it. It was fun to do with friends and some ppl really got into it. They had rewards and prizes etc. The major downfall was just participation I think, but isn' that answering the poll. Lack of big participation meaning, not that important to many ppl?

When they had made it as reserved instanced areas, it became more linkshell/friend occupied. Maybe they will do something similar for FFXIV.

Edited, Aug 11th 2010 7:13pm by Tolerance4u
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#12 Aug 11 2010 at 3:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Fighting real people is better than fighting A.I. mobs that eventually have a certain strategy to take down whereas fighting an actual person is unpredictable. I personally have more fun doing PVP than fighting a mob that I've already fought before to where it becomes routine. So I would vote yes but do not center the game around it since I believe that is the main issue with a lot of people. Keep the story Final Fantasy.

Edited, Aug 11th 2010 5:16pm by EpedemicOptikz
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#13 Aug 11 2010 at 3:17 PM Rating: Good
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no thanks. I would prefer developers resources go into PvE instead. Is there a AAA mmo other than FFXI out there now which doesn't have significant PvP? Why not go play one of the hundreds of PvP games out there if that is what you want?
#14 Aug 11 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Khorbin's Law:

In an MMO game, the more you can gain by causing harm another player, the more d-bags the game will attract.

Edited, Aug 11th 2010 5:32pm by khorbin
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#15 Aug 11 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe just an arena, thats it.
#16 Aug 11 2010 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good
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Never was big on PVP. I'd rather work together with people to achieve something. Even if FFXIV had an arena or something not tied to the story or quests, I'd avoid it.
#17 Aug 11 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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PvE all the way! :)

It is nearly impossible to balance PvP and PvE together.
#18 Aug 11 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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I would not like to see PvP in FFXIV outside of side games, like in FFXI or maybe an arena where players could arrange a fight if they wished.

Final Fantasy has always been about you and your party against the evil of the world! We only fight the bad guys and random monsters.

Focus on PvE creates a much friendlier community, for the most part.

I would much prefer another player asking me for help than asking me for a fight.

Edited, Aug 11th 2010 5:48pm by scotchio
#19 Aug 11 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
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I enjoy PvP, but like it to be seperate from my PvE gaming. Its too hard to balance both game plays and, in my opinion, PvP games are better when they don't take any grind to get on an even playing field.
#20 Aug 11 2010 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I enjoyed Ballista in FFXI alot, they should keep it like that controlled. Imagine if FFXI had PvP... If someone was taking too many mobs...

Party x-"Where is are exp!!!"
y-"The other party is taking all of our mobs."
z-"We were here first, this place is over camped."
x-"Well I'm not going to move!"
(Whole party waits till they pull a mob and attacks the other party.)
(Then people start coming back with there whole LS and then no one is able to exp.)

#21 Aug 11 2010 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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In the future I think it would be great. As mentioned before, it can get pretty stale fighting AI all the time and real human competition can be refreshing. Perhaps make alternatives to straight Faction-vs deathmatch, like a race of some sort(kill so many mobs before the other team), or escort a player, or capture the flag/territories.

I never got to play any PvP in FFXI so I don't know what it was like. I did play PvP in WoW though and found it annoying at times. It's really my own fault for joining a PvP server though. Perhaps FFXIV could have PvP servers as well, but judging by the "instances" that are a huge part of the game, I'm not sure how it would play out.

I'm sure they will add PvP in some form sooner or later, but I doubt it will be full-on like WoW.
#22 Aug 11 2010 at 4:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Urgh please no pvp, there is plenty of other pvp games to play where it is centered on pvp.
#23 Aug 11 2010 at 5:06 PM Rating: Default
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I see a lot of people cry "no PVP!" but what I don't understand is what their fear of it is, exactly. The general consensus that I've always taken from these threads is "it causes the game to attract douchebags" but if that's your only argument, it's a bit ridiculous. Internet anonymity causes douchey behavior, it really has very little to do with whether or not your pixel can hit another pixel. (Notice I didn't say it has nothing to do with it. I'll comment on that later.)

In the grand scheme of things, I think that player versus player interactions, when places strategically, adds quite a bit of depth to the feel of the "world" you're living in. For instance, the way that PVP interactions on PVE servers in Warcraft were set up was actually very well done, in my opinion. If you roam too far into enemy territory, that enemy has the right to smack you around. It added a sense of nationality (Or in WoW's case, faction loyalty) to the game, and it helped a lot when identifying your character. If XI hadn't had all of the nations basically hand-in-hand, this system could have worked just fine. But the fact that you can start in whatever city you want, as whatever race, obviously made that impossible.


As far as hostility is concerned, I've met my fair share of douchebags in pretty much every game I've ever played on the internet. I'm not going to claim that one type of game has more or less than the other, but what I will say is, as somebody who has played DoTA (and HoN, and LoL...) which are arguably some of THE MOST competitive games out there, I haven't ever sat back and thought "Wow there are way more jerks in this game than in XXXXX game" because it simply isn't an overwhelming difference. Game dynamics don't have much to do with how many jerks you get, the difference is how many ways they have to express their jerkiness. Yes, in WoW, people will gank you just to be jackasses. Just like people would intentionally cockblock you from farming in XI, or Diaga your slept mobs, etc. It's all the same ****, in the end. To say it happens more or less in one game is pretty blind fanboyism.




If they can make PVP something that isn't serious, and doesn't have tangible rewards, yes it will only appeal to a certain small group of people, but their voice won't be loud enough that the game ends up getting balanced around PVP, which is what a lot of people who've played other games dread so much. And I think Enix did an alright job with it in XI, and I think they can even go one step further now that they've tested the waters. Assmuing the classes are balanced even halfway decently, PVP will look a lot like it did in XI. And that's not to say it was bad; in fact XI's PVP balance was quite good. All they have to do now is get more creative with the objectives and they could really be onto something that's not quite worth going out of your way to do, but can still be a fun distraction.
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#24 Aug 11 2010 at 5:10 PM Rating: Decent
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RayneZ wrote:
In the future I think it would be great. As mentioned before, it can get pretty stale fighting AI all the time and real human competition can be refreshing. Perhaps make alternatives to straight Faction-vs deathmatch, like a race of some sort(kill so many mobs before the other team), or escort a player, or capture the flag/territories.

I never got to play any PvP in FFXI so I don't know what it was like. I did play PvP in WoW though and found it annoying at times. It's really my own fault for joining a PvP server though. Perhaps FFXIV could have PvP servers as well, but judging by the "instances" that are a huge part of the game, I'm not sure how it would play out.

I'm sure they will add PvP in some form sooner or later, but I doubt it will be full-on like WoW.


Campaigns were a sort of territory at stake battle. The city you belonged to could control it or it could become mob controlled. That is a group/territory type situation. I'm sure in some form they will probably have this repeated in FFXIV.

Ballista was a controlled PVP. You had 2 oppossing teams, each with groups from the same city. It was a game type situation. The object was to try to score against the other team, but you did get to fight each other as well. At the start of the whole thing and even at the end, you would be lined up facing the oppossing team.

It's a cool scenario, I'm sure if FFXIV has PVP it will be more like this.
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#25 Aug 11 2010 at 5:17 PM Rating: Good
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Personally if they keep it like ballista from FFXI, where its there but hardly supported, and (I think at least, maybe i'm wrong) classes aren't constantly adjusted in both PvE and PvP because something is too strong on the PvP end, then hey I don't care if its there. Just so long as it not open PvP, where i'm getting corpse camped by multiple people many multiple levels higher than me. Or they could have differences in abilities for both PvE and PvP so whenever they change something to "balance" PvP i'm not getting hit with it to when I have little to no interest in PvP. But from my understanding from whats been said in interviews i'm guessing PvP is going to be handled much like how it is in FFXI if its included. Which I think it might be based on that arena being set in Ul'dah.

Edited, Aug 11th 2010 6:18pm by Ipwnrice
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#26 Aug 11 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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If I recall correctly, Ballista balancing only applied to players while in Ballista, and did not cause the nerfing or alteration of PvE abilities. True?
#27 Aug 11 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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RufuSwho wrote:
If I recall correctly, Ballista balancing only applied to players while in Ballista, and did not cause the nerfing or alteration of PvE abilities. True?
I used to play Ballista a LOT, and I can't think of any skills that were altered off of the top of my head. Pretty much the only clear difference you could see was that weapon skills were obviously tuned a little differently vs. players. (Because a Samurai being able to literally 1shot you wouldn't be fair at all.) But other than that, all of your actual class-defining skills remained the same.
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#28 Aug 11 2010 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
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PVP takes away development cycles from the core game and also messes up balance (in most MMOs, I will admit that in FFXI it wasn't bad).... focus on PVE in a PVE game.
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#29 Aug 11 2010 at 6:51 PM Rating: Good
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I'd like to see more thinking outside the box on PVP. Much of the hate I have seen directed at the notion of PVP has to do with pre-conceived notions about what it will bring to the game based on what effect it had on other games. This is understandable but not necessarily applicable since FFXIV is not like other games.

Can we all agree that there will NEVER be any open world PVP in FFXIV? If so, then worrying about that is a waste of time. It's tiring to see people whining about open world PVP and why they hate it and why PVP shouldn't be in FFXIV when it clearly will not be.

FFXIV has taken elements of FFXI and improved upon them greatly with the wonderful input from the broad veteran player base from the previous mmo. This should apply to ballista/brenner type content as well. While not much of a success, plenty of people found these events to be fun and entertaining. These two elements had potential to be something more, and I think ideas need to come from the fan base since the devs are more aware of the negative feedback about PVP than any fresh, positive ideas about what people would like to see. Squeaky wheels are getting the grease so far on this one.

Some complain about the notion of competition like it's a bad thing. Can we can actually do away with competition and have a completely cooperative utopia where no one has to compete with anyone for anything? I've never understood this kind of thinking. Life is competition, and it's not a bad thing. It is how we improve in many ways, and used correctly, I believe competitive PVP could be a way for some to sharpen skills, group tactics and execution while enjoying sparring with others.

I'd like to see ballista/brenner type events taken to the next level. Personally I enjoyed the Ballista Royale event that allowed competition among the best teams across servers. As limited as ballista was, it was fun to see the different strategies play out to the end.

#30 Aug 11 2010 at 6:54 PM Rating: Good
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Reasons I dislike PvP:

1) I am not interested in competing against people on a game where gear and stats dictate results, and where better gear and better stats dictate better results. If I wanted to compete against people, I would play an FPS or an RTS where the deciding factor is skill, speed, and knowledge (and lag); where "better armor" or "overpowered class ability" do not enter into it.

2) I am not interested in competing against people I don't know anyway. Even when I play FPS or RTS games, it's against people I already know, because I don't have to worry about:

-Teabagging
-Pelvic thrusting
-Being called a *** by a 12 year old because I lost to him
-Being called a *** by a 12 year old because I beat him
-Being called a *** by a 12 year old because I'm on the other team
-Being called a *** by a 12 year old because he's a 12 year old
-Any of the above, but replace *** with ****** or any other term you prefer
-People using cheap tactics and pretending these cheap tactics make them a superior player
-People using cheap tactics and referring to them as legitimate strategy
-Unspoken house rules that everyone is expected to agree to (such as "no grenade launchers", "no camping", and "NR20")
-The ******** who ignore the above "rules", -and- the sperglords who whine about the "rules" being ignored
-People kicking you from games for no reason
-People who take the game WAY too seriously
-People who don't take the game seriously at all and just ***** around
-Especially when your team is full of these people and you're losing horribly because of it
-People who ask "Why is no one playing D?" when they refuse to play D
-People who insist that playing D is turtling and that you're bad for doing it
-People who gank you
-People who tell you not to whine about being ganked
-People who send you unsolicited duel requests
-People who send you MORE unsolicited duel requests
-People who send you EVEN MORE unsolicited duel requests, and call you a *** when you reject them
-People who are WAY over your level who send you unsolicited duel requests and call you a *** when you reject them
-People who are WAY over your level,send you a duel request, you accept, you get one shotted, and they say "L2P" and leave
-People who use the term "L2P" way too much
-People who use the term "QQ" way too much
-People who are thinking about quoting this entire post and just saying "QQ". You are why I hate PvP.

3) Any time devs spend on PvP content is time that they could have been spending on PvE content. If I wanted a PvP game, I would have played one. I want a PvE game. You know how in the FFXI days, people complained when XI problems went unfixed but you saw stuff like "New postcards in PlayOnline Viewer!" and "We added /bell!"? Yeah, that's how I feel about PvP. Don't want it, don't need it.

I think that about sums it up?
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#31 Aug 11 2010 at 6:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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I use to play Aion and due to the server merges and what not PVP killed the game...well almost.

so I will have to say no to this.
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#32 Aug 11 2010 at 7:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia wrote:
3) Any time devs spend on PvP content is time that they could have been spending on PvE content. If I wanted a PvP game, I would have played one. I want a PvE game. You know how in the FFXI days, people complained when XI problems went unfixed but you saw stuff like "New postcards in PlayOnline Viewer!" and "We added /bell!"? Yeah, that's how I feel about PvP. Don't want it, don't need it.
I meant to touch on this too, but totally forgot. How is this even an arguing point anymore? Especially considering that in XI, I can count on one hand how many times they tweaked Ballista. It's obvious they didn't spend time on it barely ever. It mostly fell into place on it's own via PVE balancing.

It's also just a crappy reason because generally a game is developed in portions by completely separate teams. So the guys that might do the PVP balancing have basically nothing to do with the guys who are developing your PVE content. And you can argue "those guys should have been helping with the PVE development, what a waste of money!" but really with a studio as large as Squenix, I doubt there's really a predefined budget in place for this game, so I highly doubt that any one team is shortstaffed.

Now granted, the two teams (PVE guys and PVP guys) do have to come together at some point and decide which of the two is going to get more influence over the process as far as what changes are implemented, but Enix has made it quite clear that the PVE team is going to win every time. So what's the fear?

Edited, Aug 11th 2010 9:14pm by Zackary
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#33 Aug 11 2010 at 7:23 PM Rating: Good
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development dollars are limited. Sqeenix is a company. Companies are made to make money - not just **** it down a rat hole because some people want PvP in their game.

and for those that say "but PvP will get them more subscribers/more money" - I say that they are just as likely to lose subs over PvP as they are to gain them.

#34 Aug 11 2010 at 7:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus wrote:
development dollars are limited. Sqeenix is a company. Companies are made to make money - not just **** it down a rat hole because some people want PvP in their game.
Having your cash cow appeal to as many people as humanly possible is highly, HIGHLY favorable when producing an MMO. That being said, making a feature in your game appeal to even a tiny portion of your playerbase will still turn you a profit, every time. It's just smart investment.
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#35 Aug 11 2010 at 7:31 PM Rating: Decent
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and I totaly agree with Olor.

NCSoft who host Aion thought by doing a server merge it would help with the PVP economy...sadly they lost more customers than gaining due to faction imbalance.

Edited, Aug 11th 2010 9:32pm by danovanw
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#36 Aug 11 2010 at 7:33 PM Rating: Good
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Zackary wrote:
It's also just a crappy reason because generally a game is developed in portions by completely separate teams. So the guys that might do the PVP balancing have basically nothing to do with the guys who are developing your PVE content. And you can argue "those guys should have been helping with the PVE development, what a waste of money!" but really with a studio as large as Squenix, I doubt there's really a predefined budget in place for this game, so I highly doubt that any one team is shortstaffed.


I could argue it, but you already made the argument for me. Yes, they could just as easily have those people working on PvE things.

There's also the matter of the fact that if there is PvP content, there will be always be players who enjoy PvP trying to get you to DO the PvP content. "Just try it!" "Come on, it's fun!" "You'll like it!" Even XI, with its limited PvP still had people asking telling me "Come do Ballista, Mik!" "Hey, we're gonna reserve Diorama!" or the Whitegate shouts of "Oh yeah, well if (whatever you're arguing about) then why don't you come fight me 1v1 and we'll settle this?"

If there's no PvP, there's none of this, either.

I already spouted off a laundry list of things that a game that results in fighting AGAINST other people results in.

And again, if every other game on the market has it, why does this game ALSO have to have it? What's your counterargument that says that there's something wrong with NOT having PvP in ONE game?

Seriously, with dozens of MMORPGs out there, what is the big deal about ONE of them -NOT- having PvP?
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#37 Aug 11 2010 at 7:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Zackary wrote:
Olorinus wrote:
development dollars are limited. Sqeenix is a company. Companies are made to make money - not just **** it down a rat hole because some people want PvP in their game.
Having your cash cow appeal to as many people as humanly possible is highly, HIGHLY favorable when producing an MMO. That being said, making a feature in your game appeal to even a tiny portion of your playerbase will still turn you a profit, every time. It's just smart investment.


You neglect to consider people like me who would NOT play FFXIV if it had a significant amount of PvP in it. As far as I'm concerned, FFXI had almost too much PvP for my liking, and it didn't even have that much at all.

The main thing that's important to me, the player, is my game experience. I don't care how much money they're making or how many people they're trying to attract, I just care that I'm playing a game I like. If it has duels and/or PvP rewards and/or PvP battlegrounds/arenas, I do not like it and will not play it.
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#38 Aug 11 2010 at 7:50 PM Rating: Default
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I'm fine with small scale PVP with no real lasting PVE consequences/benefits but FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S GOOD IN THIS WORLD GIVE US DUELS 1v1 mano e mano to settle stupid arguments about who's better than who. . . and to kill a lot of time while chatting up people.
#39 Aug 11 2010 at 7:52 PM Rating: Good
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I vote no. Plenty of reasons, some of which have already been mentioned...

PvP players have other games they can go play. I tried out WoW, and after getting to endgame and seeing how bland the PvE was, and that the game has at least half focused on PvP, I didn't petition blizzard to change their game... I quit, and awaited a game like FFXIV. Works both ways, except people looking for PvP have plenty of other options, so I see no reason to introduce any real PvP system into FFXIV.

Though something like ballista would be alright... It was basically like a mini game, and as long as that's the height of it, I'd be okay with it in the game. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions though, I'm just glad SE is siding with the PvE players. :P
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#40 Aug 11 2010 at 8:52 PM Rating: Good
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EA should implement touchdowns into NHL 11, simply because it's an EA game!

Playing mostly healing and supporting roles, the thought of being ganked by an archer or marauder doesn't appeal to me.
When there is PVP, people make it a priority to go out of their way to make your life miserable.

I plan on playing FFXIV to have fun, I don't consider it fun to level to cap as fast as humanly possible simply so I can roam the world pwning noobs. There's more to games than levelling as fast as possible. PVP caters to hardcore elite. I find it incredibly un-fun to be grinding on mobs, then have someone unstealth and stab me in the face.
#41 Aug 11 2010 at 9:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is a scenario that happened to me in the F2P MMO Perfect World. I was just playing the game cause I was needing my MMO fix and thinking about FFXIV so much, and hey it's free.

I was playing as the Tank class minding my own buisness and trying to solo, just goofing not being serious. The level I was at enabled me to change to my beast form after I did this quest and killed these mobs.

So I was trying to kill the mobs and this Archer dude kept killing them before me, and he kept doing this knock knock thing on me to challenge me to duel. I just stayed quiet and would click the knock knock and answer no, it's automatic you don't really reply. Then he continued to kill the mobs and continued to knock, and I would click it off. Eventually I would just let the knock dissappear by itself, he kept doing it that many times. It later got to the point where I just sat down and made my character rest, cause he seemed like he wouldn't stop. At that point he said in chat where all could see "well *** u den."

Now just from that example it shows how it affects ppl. I wanted to solo, wasn't being offensive and was playing the way I wanted to, but in his mind I was the @#%^? Players think cause they can fight you that you have to accept, or you are less than. It affects the experience you have in the game, and to me is really not needed.

If I wanted to fight I would play Street Fighter or Mortal Combat, but that's just me.

Edited, Aug 11th 2010 11:04pm by Tolerance4u
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FFXI (BST 75, RDM 75, BLM 75, BRD 75) (along with many subs and cherished friends)

And on the 7th day God created Miqo'te.
On the 8th day God saw that they were sad and lonely, God then threw down a Squarenix staff member and thus was born the male Miqo'te.
#42 Aug 11 2010 at 9:14 PM Rating: Good
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I personally prefer non-pvp games, the reason being that I don't like to have to watch my back when I am just trying to have fun. I would not care if Square-Enix decided to have pvp servers; however as some people have pointed out then you would have to balance the game for pvp and non-pvp and therefore pvp would still effect those who are not on pvp servers.

Hopefully Square-Enix will have some elements of both in a mutually exclusive way so that all players can enjoy the game.
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Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#43 Aug 11 2010 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Another thought about games where you have factions, and it's "light vs dark" or whatever. Possibly Aion may be like this, I know WOW is. When ppl camp a newbies corpse and everytime they ressurrect they just kill them again, how is that making the game enjoyable for both players? Sometimes the player doesn't even know what to do, they are so green they are still learning the ropes. Wow, that's impressive you killed someone who doesn't even know how to play yet.

Both of the players pay the monthly fee, and should be able to play as they wish. I just don't get it, but that's just me and it's my personal opinion.
____________________________
FFXI (BST 75, RDM 75, BLM 75, BRD 75) (along with many subs and cherished friends)

And on the 7th day God created Miqo'te.
On the 8th day God saw that they were sad and lonely, God then threw down a Squarenix staff member and thus was born the male Miqo'te.
#44 Aug 11 2010 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
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317 posts
Quote:
Another thought about games where you have factions, and it's "light vs dark" or whatever. Possibly Aion may be like this, I know WOW is. When ppl camp a newbies corpse and everytime they ressurrect they just kill them again, how is that making the game enjoyable for both players? Sometimes the player doesn't even know what to do, they are so green they are still learning the ropes. Wow, that's impressive you killed someone who doesn't even know how to play yet.

Both of the players pay the monthly fee, and should be able to play as they wish. I just don't get it, but that's just me and it's my personal opinion.


I like the factions idea, if I am assuming you mean guilds at war such that fighting between them is allowed but not random people.

I agree with what you say about corpse killing over and over again, or killing players way below your level who have no chance at all, however I would have to say if you are new to a game you should not start out on a pvp server if you have a choice. However, if you don't have a choice then I agree with you completely on killing new players who do not know how to play the game enough to defend themselves.
____________________________
Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#45 Aug 11 2010 at 9:26 PM Rating: Good
3 posts
i believe pvp would only create unbalance in ffxiv. therefore there should be no pvp and if ever implemented, it should not interfere with character balancing in pve
#46 Aug 11 2010 at 9:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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327 posts
Tolerance4u wrote:
This is a scenario that happened to me in the F2P MMO Perfect World. I was just playing the game cause I was needing my MMO fix and thinking about FFXIV so much, and hey it's free.

I was playing as the Tank class minding my own buisness and trying to solo, just goofing not being serious. The level I was at enabled me to change to my beast form after I did this quest and killed these mobs.

So I was trying to kill the mobs and this Archer dude kept killing them before me, and he kept doing this knock knock thing on me to challenge me to duel. I just stayed quiet and would click the knock knock and answer no, it's automatic you don't really reply. Then he continued to kill the mobs and continued to knock, and I would click it off. Eventually I would just let the knock dissappear by itself, he kept doing it that many times. It later got to the point where I just sat down and made my character rest, cause he seemed like he wouldn't stop. At that point he said in chat where all could see "well *** u den."

Now just from that example it shows how it affects ppl. I wanted to solo, wasn't being offensive and was playing the way I wanted to, but in his mind I was the @#%^? Players think cause they can fight you that you have to accept, or you are less than. It affects the experience you have in the game, and to me is really not needed.

If I wanted to fight I would play Street Fighter or Mortal Combat, but that's just me.

Edited, Aug 11th 2010 11:04pm by Tolerance4u


I've experienced that very same scenario in so many MMO's that feature PvP. I'm not opposed to PvP, but personally, I PREFER PvE. Sure, it's fun to hang around when bored with friends, and trade blows, see who's faster at clicking hotkeys. It doesn't hurt to compare yourself against your peers, see who's spec is better, etc. But when the mentality of "Why WON'T you fight me?" starts to build up, it gets annoying. I also played a F2P (don't get me started on how much I hate those now) that had seperate PvP and PvE channels within the same server. So if you want to do one or the other, go there. Not like you can't talk to your friends since you are still on the same server.

Yet people started to complain on forums on how there isn't ENOUGH PvP, and wanted to force all channels (there were like 14 in a single server) to PvP status. I could never wrap my head around how people could cry about such a thing, when they had multiple choices in where to go to do PvP. Yet they had to come back to the PvE realms and bicker about lack of PvP again. I was on a PvE channel cause I didn't feel like getting harassed while doing quests and such. When the powers that be created an All PvP server finally, it was glorious. Everyone who wanted PvP onry, jumped ship and left. It was quiet for about 2 months. Then they all came flooding back. PvP servers were too boring. Epeening ensued once again in the world chats. Harmony was shattered.

Point being: getting PvP and PvE to co-exist isn't impossible, but it's hard to find balance. There will always be those who just want to play the game with friends and have fun exploring, etc. Then there will be those who have the desire to prove themselves by challenging others, and get their fun that way. Even though I never really played it, I liked the Ballista idea in FFXI. Give some area where people can war against each other or w/e.
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#47 Aug 11 2010 at 9:30 PM Rating: Good
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Tolerance4u wrote:
Another thought about games where you have factions, and it's "light vs dark" or whatever. Possibly Aion may be like this, I know WOW is. When ppl camp a newbies corpse and everytime they ressurrect they just kill them again, how is that making the game enjoyable for both players? Sometimes the player doesn't even know what to do, they are so green they are still learning the ropes. Wow, that's impressive you killed someone who doesn't even know how to play yet.

Both of the players pay the monthly fee, and should be able to play as they wish. I just don't get it, but that's just me and it's my personal opinion.


I think the thing that annoys me most about ganking is the logic used to validate it; that "Everyone gets ganked when they're a lowbie. When you're a higher level, you can gank other people too!" Oh, so the solution and reason behind ruining another person's day "because it's fun" is "Other people did it to me, and you can do it to other people"? Isn't this the same thing you hear in courts that two bit defense attorneys try to use; to claim that the defendant was the victim because things happened to them, and therefore they committed the crime? The constant repetition of "***** others, because others have screwed you" just perpetuates the problem.

Setting aside contained PvP areas and duels, gankers are quite possibly the lowest form of fodder on the internet; perhaps they're just bullies, or perhaps they're gaming people to take out frustration at having been bullied by others, but either way, playing a game with the direct intention of ruining someone else's day is counterproductive to fun.

That's the problem with competition: For every person that wins, someone has to lose. For everyone that kills, someone must die.

Leave the PvP out and let people work together against the game itself. The game does not have feelings. The game will not get mad at you for beating it, nor will it mock you for losing. The game will not quit if you kill it too much, nor will it teabag you and call you racial slurs if it kills you. Compete against the game and everyone can win. Compete against each other, and only 50% of the people can.
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#48 Aug 11 2010 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
i believe pvp would only create unbalance in ffxiv. therefore there should be no pvp and if ever implemented, it should not interfere with character balancing in pve


I think that the developers could balance it out, it would just be hard. There are many complex issues related with the subject that would take up a lot of time away from developing new areas/abilities/etc.

One problem I have is that there might be abilities that would not make sense when going against another player, such as in FFXI with the bst. What abilities would they have other than either taming a pet to attack or throwing out a bottled pet. (Disclaimer: I have not memorized the abilities of BST and was just using it as an example, also I cannot tell you if there are abilities like this in FFXIV or that there might be in the future.)

____________________________
Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#49 Aug 11 2010 at 9:41 PM Rating: Good
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LordDVS wrote:
Tolerance4u wrote:
This is a scenario that happened to me in the F2P MMO Perfect World. I was just playing the game cause I was needing my MMO fix and thinking about FFXIV so much, and hey it's free.

I was playing as the Tank class minding my own buisness and trying to solo, just goofing not being serious. The level I was at enabled me to change to my beast form after I did this quest and killed these mobs.

So I was trying to kill the mobs and this Archer dude kept killing them before me, and he kept doing this knock knock thing on me to challenge me to duel. I just stayed quiet and would click the knock knock and answer no, it's automatic you don't really reply. Then he continued to kill the mobs and continued to knock, and I would click it off. Eventually I would just let the knock dissappear by itself, he kept doing it that many times. It later got to the point where I just sat down and made my character rest, cause he seemed like he wouldn't stop. At that point he said in chat where all could see "well *** u den."

Now just from that example it shows how it affects ppl. I wanted to solo, wasn't being offensive and was playing the way I wanted to, but in his mind I was the @#%^? Players think cause they can fight you that you have to accept, or you are less than. It affects the experience you have in the game, and to me is really not needed.

If I wanted to fight I would play Street Fighter or Mortal Combat, but that's just me.

Edited, Aug 11th 2010 11:04pm by Tolerance4u


I've experienced that very same scenario in so many MMO's that feature PvP. I'm not opposed to PvP, but personally, I PREFER PvE. Sure, it's fun to hang around when bored with friends, and trade blows, see who's faster at clicking hotkeys. It doesn't hurt to compare yourself against your peers, see who's spec is better, etc. But when the mentality of "Why WON'T you fight me?" starts to build up, it gets annoying. I also played a F2P (don't get me started on how much I hate those now) that had seperate PvP and PvE channels within the same server. So if you want to do one or the other, go there. Not like you can't talk to your friends since you are still on the same server.

Yet people started to complain on forums on how there isn't ENOUGH PvP, and wanted to force all channels (there were like 14 in a single server) to PvP status. I could never wrap my head around how people could cry about such a thing, when they had multiple choices in where to go to do PvP. Yet they had to come back to the PvE realms and bicker about lack of PvP again. I was on a PvE channel cause I didn't feel like getting harassed while doing quests and such. When the powers that be created an All PvP server finally, it was glorious. Everyone who wanted PvP onry, jumped ship and left. It was quiet for about 2 months. Then they all came flooding back. PvP servers were too boring. Epeening ensued once again in the world chats. Harmony was shattered.

Point being: getting PvP and PvE to co-exist isn't impossible, but it's hard to find balance. There will always be those who just want to play the game with friends and have fun exploring, etc. Then there will be those who have the desire to prove themselves by challenging others, and get their fun that way. Even though I never really played it, I liked the Ballista idea in FFXI. Give some area where people can war against each other or w/e.


This is true too. Once you add SOME PvP, people will want more. There are far too many "internet tough guys" out there who exist solely to ruin someone else's day, and anything that stands in their way, they will rage over. Why should someone else have to be in an arena; why can't I attack them anywhere? Why do they have to agree to a duel; why can't I just attack whoever I want?

Do people remember the WoW episode of South Park? That was a ganker's wet dream. The ability to run and jump around a server completely naked and be able to one shot EVERYONE on the server. The ability to cause people SO MUCH GRIEF that they quit the game in frustration. There are THOUSANDS of people out there who, when faced with the knowledge that someone quit a game because they were ganked repeatedly, would consider this a personal achievement.

And you know what? I don't want them anywhere near XIV.

Now before someone says this, I'll beat you to it: No, not all people who PvP are like this. There are quite a great deal of reasonably intelligent people who believe in fair fights, consensual combat, and a "gg" afterward. Again, I shall take not one, but TWO examples from WoW where I killed someone of the opposite faction who was attacking quest NPCs, and ended up having a fun conversation with them through one of us creating a level 1 alt and just chatting back and forth. For all the ********* there are genuinely nice people who just enjoy a little friendly competition.

The problem is, the ******** ruin it for everyone. For every 8 year old that wants a red rider BB gun to shoot at a target, there is an 8 year old who would shoot as his sister or put his own eye out. For every 12 year old that will use their cell phone responsibly for emergencies, there is a 12 year old who will run up a $1000 phone bill with texting. For every 14 year old that can be trusted to be back before sundown, there is a 14 year old who will show up at 4 AM.

Fact is, some people just have no **** respect for anyone and everyone else has to suffer because of it. With my sincere apologies to the people who can behave themselves, some people just can't.
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Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#50 Aug 11 2010 at 9:46 PM Rating: Decent
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PVP brings stupidity, even more ego, and an endless struggle of balancing classes... No, no, and no!
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#51 Aug 11 2010 at 9:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
PVP brings stupidity, even more ego, and an endless struggle of balancing classes... No, no, and no


I don't think pvp would bring that to the game, it would just make it more noticeable. There will always be stupid people or big egos; it is just that without a way to really show it off we don't see it.
____________________________
Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
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