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Poll: Should FFXIV have PVP?Follow

#52 Aug 11 2010 at 10:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Kinda +1, but I agree with Zackary. Some light PvP would be very welcome to me. If nothing else, it's unlimited content after the limited content is finished.
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#53 Aug 12 2010 at 12:30 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia wrote:
Tolerance4u wrote:
Another thought about games where you have factions, and it's "light vs dark" or whatever. Possibly Aion may be like this, I know WOW is. When ppl camp a newbies corpse and everytime they ressurrect they just kill them again, how is that making the game enjoyable for both players? Sometimes the player doesn't even know what to do, they are so green they are still learning the ropes. Wow, that's impressive you killed someone who doesn't even know how to play yet.

Both of the players pay the monthly fee, and should be able to play as they wish. I just don't get it, but that's just me and it's my personal opinion.


I think the thing that annoys me most about ganking is the logic used to validate it; that "Everyone gets ganked when they're a lowbie. When you're a higher level, you can gank other people too!" Oh, so the solution and reason behind ruining another person's day "because it's fun" is "Other people did it to me, and you can do it to other people"? Isn't this the same thing you hear in courts that two bit defense attorneys try to use; to claim that the defendant was the victim because things happened to them, and therefore they committed the crime? The constant repetition of "***** others, because others have screwed you" just perpetuates the problem.

Setting aside contained PvP areas and duels, gankers are quite possibly the lowest form of fodder on the internet; perhaps they're just bullies, or perhaps they're gaming people to take out frustration at having been bullied by others, but either way, playing a game with the direct intention of ruining someone else's day is counterproductive to fun.

That's the problem with competition: For every person that wins, someone has to lose. For everyone that kills, someone must die.

Leave the PvP out and let people work together against the game itself. The game does not have feelings. The game will not get mad at you for beating it, nor will it mock you for losing. The game will not quit if you kill it too much, nor will it teabag you and call you racial slurs if it kills you. Compete against the game and everyone can win. Compete against each other, and only 50% of the people can.


I so rated you up Mikhalia, wow you are so in my head. I feel that you would be a respectable player in FFXIV. That was very well worded, thank you for sharing that. :)
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#54 Aug 12 2010 at 12:41 AM Rating: Good
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Duels or team vs team in a Colosseum setting as a sport (maybe with spectator seating) would be nice. Sort of like the Pankration cage but with people. Open world PVP and WoW PVP-centric gameplay is a big fat NO however.

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 3:41am by Lobivopis
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Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#55 Aug 12 2010 at 12:45 AM Rating: Decent
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deathly809 wrote:
Quote:
i believe pvp would only create unbalance in ffxiv. therefore there should be no pvp and if ever implemented, it should not interfere with character balancing in pve


I think that the developers could balance it out, it would just be hard. There are many complex issues related with the subject that would take up a lot of time away from developing new areas/abilities/etc.

One problem I have is that there might be abilities that would not make sense when going against another player, such as in FFXI with the bst. What abilities would they have other than either taming a pet to attack or throwing out a bottled pet. (Disclaimer: I have not memorized the abilities of BST and was just using it as an example, also I cannot tell you if there are abilities like this in FFXIV or that there might be in the future.)



Quote:
Now granted, the two teams (PVE guys and PVP guys) do have to come together at some point and decide which of the two is going to get more influence over the process as far as what changes are implemented, but Enix has made it quite clear that the PVE team is going to win every time. So what's the fear?


SE had a very simple solution for keeping PVP balancing from messing up PVE. PVP and PVE used different rules. Abilities that were too powerful in PVP were only nerfed in PVP, not in PVE.

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 3:50am by Lobivopis
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#56 Aug 12 2010 at 1:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Another consideration,for the sake of argument, is that half of the game's classes are NOT combat classes.

How exactly do you implement PvP for DoH/DoL? A quilt-off? Log tossing?
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#57 Aug 12 2010 at 4:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Another consideration,for the sake of argument, is that half of the game's classes are NOT combat classes.

How exactly do you implement PvP for DoH/DoL? A quilt-off? Log tossing?


I don't think anyone has suggested open world PvP, so I don't really see how that's relevant.

As far as I've seen, every PvP suggestion has been for a consensual system - if you consent to PvP as a non-combat class (especially given that you can easily switch to a combat class) that's your problem, not the game designer's.
#58 Aug 12 2010 at 4:40 AM Rating: Decent
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PVP doesn't really have much of a place in FF - However, who am I to deny it to other players that want it?

I would hope that PvP if in FFXIV would be entirely optional.

I remember this other SMN and I goading each other for weeks about who would win in a duel, so we went into PvP and had it out. I one-shotted him :) SMN are OP.
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#59 Aug 12 2010 at 5:05 AM Rating: Good
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Papanurf wrote:
PVP doesn't really have much of a place in FF - However, who am I to deny it to other players that want it?

I would hope that PvP if in FFXIV would be entirely optional.

I remember this other SMN and I goading each other for weeks about who would win in a duel, so we went into PvP and had it out. I one-shotted him :) SMN are OP.


Our LS did brenner once in a while when we were bored, but instead of playing the game we would meet at the beach for 1on1 fights. Good time to let off some steam and earn some LS bragging rights. One fight that everyone was laughing at was me(Galka Mnk) vs our Taru Smn...basically him running away and me chasing him around the beach...good stuff.

That kind of PvP was fun. Optional PvP is ok I guess, I wouldn't stop playing the game if it were added. If it wasn't there at all, awesome. I wouldn't get bugged by people who want to fight everyone.

Though the Ul'dah arena would interest me if you could watch fights & place bets on 'em.
#60 Aug 12 2010 at 5:09 AM Rating: Default
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There is some relevance Bast.

If "LIGHT" pvp was implemented in this game sooner or later people will start complaining due to the imbalance towards certain class since they are unable to pvp efficiently.

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#61 Aug 12 2010 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
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danovanw wrote:
There is some relevance Bast.

If "LIGHT" pvp was implemented in this game sooner or later people will start complaining due to the imbalance towards certain class since they are unable to pvp efficiently.


Prove it.

I highly doubt ANYONE, much less SE, would balance a non-combat class for PvP when they're not even balanced for PvE.
#62 Aug 12 2010 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
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FFXIV is under developement by a Japanese company. It will not have any form of uncontrolled or "open" pvp at all and with how big a fuss people made about being examined(NA/EU/JP-alike) in FFxi do not expect to see any form of dueling out in the open either. To be honest it is pretty much just lol'worthy thinking about it.

Now as far as controlled pvp events and the like, I'm pretty sure I've read dev statements that they were contemplating ideas. As far as balancing, Ballista in FFxi was unbalanced as all can be, but at the same time it was balanced in the reguard that you have the same chance to do whatever excelled as the next guy. Though, even in Ballista there was quite a bit of variation throughout the classes.

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 9:55am by Xuri

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 9:56am by Xuri
#63 Aug 12 2010 at 8:05 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
SE had a very simple solution for keeping PVP balancing from messing up PVE. PVP and PVE used different rules. Abilities that were too powerful in PVP were only nerfed in PVP, not in PVE.


I was thinking that too but then I realized that pvp players would have it harder. They would have to know all the details and tricks when playing pve and then turn around and know all the tricks when playing pvp. Also another issue is weapons/armor; would they have to modify that also when pve and pvp do you think?

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 10:11am by deathly809
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#64 Aug 12 2010 at 8:08 AM Rating: Default
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It will but PVP from SE is a back seat to PVE. SE said they will have it but not at launch. I just hope its different from FFXI PVP.
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#65 Aug 12 2010 at 2:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Another consideration,for the sake of argument, is that half of the game's classes are NOT combat classes.

How exactly do you implement PvP for DoH/DoL? A quilt-off? Log tossing?


You say that like it would not be awesome.



Edited, Aug 12th 2010 5:54pm by Lobivopis
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#66 Aug 12 2010 at 7:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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I am throwing in my two cents on this.

I have rather limited experience with PvP, so take what I say with that in mind. In LotrO, the PvMp was tacked on as an afterthought significantly into the development process and sows that in a lot of ways. Combine that with the rather heavy hand that Turbine takes with balancing issues and the presence of pvmp causes strife on the official forums fairly often.

In Warhammer, the RvR was planned as an integral part of the game from the beginning and was well done, in my opinion. I played on a RP-RvR server before I quit and took a fair number of trips over to the other side of the map to see what trouble I could find. One thing that game implemented to cut down on ganking was that overleveled characters of the opposing side would be turned into chickens if they ventured into low level areas.

I have never tried Ballista but have a couple friends that thought it was awesome. Back when it was moderately cool, I did not have any jobs that were high enough to compete.

To sum up, if it is planned for from the beginning then it can be fun but if it is tacked on later then the game would be better without it.
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#67 Sep 01 2010 at 8:16 PM Rating: Default
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Sorry I'm late. Found this thread searching to see if there had been an update to the PvP situation for this game.
Gotta respond, even if nobody reads it and nobody cares because it'll make me feel better.

Mikhalia, this is directed at you, but only because you seem to be the primary contributor for the argument against PvP. I came to debate (again, may be a little late for this) and defend the people who would like to play a game the way they like to play a game.

Quote:
And again, if every other game on the market has it, why does this game ALSO have to have it? What's your counterargument that says that there's something wrong with NOT having PvP in ONE game?


To compete with the other games which offer the same thing. If it doesn't offer what others do, it can't compete.

Quote:
Seriously, with dozens of MMORPGs out there, what is the big deal about ONE of them -NOT- having PvP?


See above, but also because this ONE is FF and there are those of us who enjoy competition and a real challenge that no AI can provide who ALSO happen to like the FF series.

Quote:
You neglect to consider people like me who would NOT play FFXIV if it had a significant amount of PvP in it.


Somehow you are neglecting to consider that almost every MMORPG out there that implemented PvP did so with specific PvP servers. So go play on PvE and I'll play on PvP and we'll both be happy? Oh wait but no then we come to...

Quote:
I could argue it, but you already made the argument for me. Yes, they could just as easily have those people working on PvE things.


You have made yourself clear in that you think your way is the only way and ***** anyone who thinks differently. See, I'm not against PvE because I understand that there are those who have no interest in (or have a borderline paranoia regarding) PvP. So I, for instance, wouldn't ever suggest that any game's devs work only on PvPvE - as is my personal environment preference.

Quote:
That's the problem with competition: For every person that wins, someone has to lose. For everyone that kills, someone must die.


Hm. You don't happen to be a supporter of "no child left behind", do you?

To the bullet points (which I won't quote) and other similar comments, well, I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with PvP that has apparently left you so scarred that you wish for nobody else to enjoy it and now you have such a low opinion of anyone who participates in it, but really I'm just glad it's not your call. For me, I hope SE figures it out and implements it, or this game is going to get old and tired pretty quickly, no matter how good the PvE content.
#68 Sep 01 2010 at 8:29 PM Rating: Good
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Forget it

Edited, Sep 1st 2010 10:31pm by DragoonRising
#69 Sep 10 2010 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
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I've played PvP in a multitude of games and they somehow ***** it up. To overpowered classes to people wanting to get experience and points quickly (like WoW, Aion) and thats all they're worried about, which turns into no Fun. With that being said, I still like PvP. Not the ganking part but for me, and as much as I like PvE, it gets boring after awhile and becomes a big *** grind. I'm not sure the best way to have PvP but if there's none, I suspect after the first month I'd probably leave.
#70 Sep 10 2010 at 11:22 AM Rating: Decent
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The way you worded your question, i'm gonna say "NO" but i wouldn't mind optional PvP.
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#71 Sep 10 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
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I have to say no on PvP on any MMO with a strong PvE element to it. People need to understand that a game with PvP will always dominate and trump anything PvE has to offer. I have to say all the MMOs I played that had PvP in it, the PvP always took over the PvE. Either with players exploiting, finding loopholes for cheap kills, hacks, etc. There is also the players that just cause grief on non-PvPers. Looking for easy kills and marks. Then of course comes the PvP effecting the PvE in where some rules are balanced for a mob that has 1000s of HPs (Health) but is over powered for PvP because obviously players can't be that beefy. Then the nerf bat comes and lessens the effect of that ability. So everytime I hear a Dev say, PvP will not effect PvE. I know they don't know what they are talking about or lying. And of course the resources taken to handle all the problems that PvP brings to the game, takes away from full resources going to PvE content.

PvP is fine for a PvP MMO is its main feature. But a PvE MMO and PvP mix just doesn't work.
#72 Sep 10 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, SE was constantly tweaking jobs in XI just because of party invites and "overpowered" jobs (read: unless you were BLM SAM WAR with a few exceptions), and that was just for invites and tactics against NPCs.
You add in a "normal" type PVP where you can fight anywhere/anytime depending on the server rules, and we'll be back to the "optimal" job pigeon hole ******** that XI ended up being. Followed by SE ****-raping any job that is condidered "optimal". They aren't exactly subtle with their adjustments. In XI there were mainstay jobs that got nerfed so bad they ended up being one step above assistant toilet cleaner, and 1/2 as useful as a real toilet cleaner.

PVP should remain in the "arena" type setting from XI. The small population that enjoyed PVP in XI could participate, and there was no shennanigans in the game with all the corpse camping, and smack talking, and stalking.
Plus then we don't have the added stress of spec'ing our characters for PVP as well as normal gameplay.

FF isn't about PVP, regardless of whether it's an MMO or not. XI had a decent system for accomodating those who wanted to do that, and quite honestly, it was the most friendly and sportman-like PVP in an MMO I've ever participated in.
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#73 Sep 10 2010 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not going to PvP. But if it is implemented in an Arena setting, I'd like to see the power balancing only take effect while you are in the Arena.

Please do not drastically alter Class Abilities/Spells ect. for everyone, everywhere just so PvP can be balanced.
#74 Sep 10 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
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-People who use the term "L2P" way too much
-People who use the term "QQ" way too much


I would like to add people who say "Bro" way too much. God that's irritating.
#75 Sep 10 2010 at 1:05 PM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia wrote:
Reasons I dislike PvP:

1) I am not interested in competing against people on a game where gear and stats dictate results, and where better gear and better stats dictate better results. If I wanted to compete against people, I would play an FPS or an RTS where the deciding factor is skill, speed, and knowledge (and lag); where "better armor" or "overpowered class ability" do not enter into it.

2) I am not interested in competing against people I don't know anyway. Even when I play FPS or RTS games, it's against people I already know, because I don't have to worry about:

-Teabagging
-Pelvic thrusting
-Being called a *** by a 12 year old because I lost to him
-Being called a *** by a 12 year old because I beat him
-Being called a *** by a 12 year old because I'm on the other team
-Being called a *** by a 12 year old because he's a 12 year old
-Any of the above, but replace *** with @#%^ or any other term you prefer
-People using cheap tactics and pretending these cheap tactics make them a superior player
-People using cheap tactics and referring to them as legitimate strategy
-Unspoken house rules that everyone is expected to agree to (such as "no grenade launchers", "no camping", and "NR20")
-The @#%^s who ignore the above "rules", -and- the sperglords who whine about the "rules" being ignored
-People kicking you from games for no reason
-People who take the game WAY too seriously
-People who don't take the game seriously at all and just ***** around
-Especially when your team is full of these people and you're losing horribly because of it
-People who ask "Why is no one playing D?" when they refuse to play D
-People who insist that playing D is turtling and that you're bad for doing it
-People who gank you
-People who tell you not to whine about being ganked
-People who send you unsolicited duel requests
-People who send you MORE unsolicited duel requests
-People who send you EVEN MORE unsolicited duel requests, and call you a *** when you reject them
-People who are WAY over your level who send you unsolicited duel requests and call you a *** when you reject them
-People who are WAY over your level,send you a duel request, you accept, you get one shotted, and they say "L2P" and leave
-People who use the term "L2P" way too much
-People who use the term "QQ" way too much
-People who are thinking about quoting this entire post and just saying "QQ". You are why I hate PvP.

3) Any time devs spend on PvP content is time that they could have been spending on PvE content. If I wanted a PvP game, I would have played one. I want a PvE game. You know how in the FFXI days, people complained when XI problems went unfixed but you saw stuff like "New postcards in PlayOnline Viewer!" and "We added /bell!"? Yeah, that's how I feel about PvP. Don't want it, don't need it.

I think that about sums it up?


QQ moar.
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#76 Sep 10 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
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I see a lot of people cry "no PVP!" but what I don't understand is what their fear of it is, exactly.


I for one fear that it will kill the balance like it did in "big W" for example.
Unless they find a way use totaly different mechanics for PvP then they do for PvE I'm all against it.
Even thought it actualy doesn't look like it will happen even without PvP, I like Healer who heal and don't DD, Supporters that Support and so on.

Ok I think SE ***** me even without PvP... dang it...
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#77 Sep 10 2010 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
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PVP wouldn't work in this game.

If it was, I would stand on a ledge and wait for a melee to come by. I would cast gravity and poison on a melee and since they cannot walk/charge/death-grip/jump up the cliff, and have to walk all the way around, I can essentially kite them until they are dead. Just dreaming up a scenario... much of it not based on too many facts. For PVP, you need fluid movements and controls and a balanced system of abilities that cross Class speciality so that spells and abilities make it challenging to kill another character and have counter measures.

...woooo...runon

#78 Sep 10 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
1) I am not interested in competing against people on a game where gear and stats dictate results, and where better gear and better stats dictate better results. If I wanted to compete against people, I would play an FPS or an RTS where the deciding factor is skill, speed, and knowledge (and lag); where "better armor" or "overpowered class ability" do not enter into it.


This was said beautifully. In fact I couldn't say it better.

Quote:
..woooo...runon


lol

Edited, Sep 10th 2010 2:44pm by Slapaho
#79 Sep 10 2010 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
Necro'd! Nana-nana-nana-nana-nana-nana-nana-nana-nana-Necro'd!
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#80 Sep 10 2010 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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Why the **** did this need a giant necrobump?
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