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#1 Aug 12 2010 at 12:06 AM Rating: Sub-Default
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I'm watching some Beta stuff and people are so dam stupid!! It's like they never have played an MMO before. THEY HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO DO ANYTHING. The 22nd is going to be filled with so many dumb asses ( probably me included). I mean i'm not perfect but come on. I wish i could show you guys some of the stuff and these people on vent say and what they do.

IE: abilities/skills what are those?


EDIT FEAL to FEEL

Edited, Aug 13th 2010 4:43pm by Frebaut
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#2 Aug 12 2010 at 12:13 AM Rating: Decent
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And what is also really sad is so MANY testers are bi*ching and complaining about how the game is running and all of the issues they are having.

IT IS BETA PEOPLE!
#3Rjain, Posted: Aug 12 2010 at 12:15 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I am not sure about this but I heard that the Japanese beta has even more job classes and access to other things (and almost all the bugs fixed) compared to the North American phase 3.
#4 Aug 12 2010 at 12:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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I am not sure about this but I heard that the Japanese beta has even more job classes and access to other things (and almost all the bugs fixed) compared to the North American phase 3.


There is no japanese beta. its mixed just like it'll be when the game goes live.
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#5 Aug 12 2010 at 12:54 AM Rating: Default
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Oh. Well I'm not sure what I read then it was somewhere in the beta forums stickies or something that the Japanese players were testing the final content or something.
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#6 Aug 12 2010 at 12:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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RIDDER wrote:
And what is also really sad is so MANY testers are bi*ching and complaining about how the game is running and all of the issues they are having.

IT IS BETA PEOPLE!


It seems to me that there are idiots out there who are under the impression that "Beta Test" somehow means "Free Demo of Completed project".

If it was completed, they would be charging you money for it.
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#7 Aug 12 2010 at 1:01 AM Rating: Decent
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the issue isn't people being dumb, it's them being unwilling to accept different methods of play. previous/current FFXI players will have no trouble at all getting used to FFXIV as the controls are near identical and most of the systems work **** well (minus fishing but with all the complaints flying about that'll get changed).
people from other MMOs/pretty much any other 3rd person pc game could have issues as well, the game practically doesn't use a mouse (completely fine, look at FFXI, no need at all for the mouse) and that has been one of the biggest complaints.. that and the lack of jump... lol neither are needed, people just need to adapt
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#8 Aug 12 2010 at 1:02 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not worried of how it plays. It plays awsome and yes their are bugs but thats why its still in beta. All will be fixed. I was saying that their are so many people in here that have never played an MMO and have no idea what to do. It's like they regressed when they uploaded the beta. Not sure why SE gave out so many keys to people that have never played an MMO before. Oh well
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#9 Aug 12 2010 at 1:05 AM Rating: Decent
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@Rjain
Wrong info then. As far as I can tell, there is no difference between what we test and what you test. There may be a difference in the amount of ******** around, but even that dissipates once you check "inofficial" forums like 2ch. ^.^/
Actually, I think 2ch wins the ******** contest by miles.
#10 Aug 12 2010 at 1:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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to get a variety of opinions, you dont want another FFXI clone or WoW clone.. you want something different, so you need opinions from all points.
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#11 Aug 12 2010 at 1:13 AM Rating: Good
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Frebaut wrote:
I'm not worried of how it plays. It plays awsome and yes their are bugs but thats why its still in beta. All will be fixed. I was saying that their are so many people in here that have never played an MMO and have no idea what to do. It's like they regressed when they uploaded the beta. Not sure why SE gave out so many keys to people that have never played an MMO before. Oh well


I agree with you, but there is a reason behind this:

They have said that they want FFXIV to attract "new players" to the MMORPG field, so I think they were SPECIFICALLY aiming for people who had NO MMO experience at all.

And honestly, I don't think that's inherently a horrible thing. I've chided the perils of using the "X game had X feature so FFXIV should have X feature" logic. If nothing else, I would like to see some opinions from people who had NO experience with ANY MMOG and therefore had NOTHING to compare FFXIV to.

Now I'm not saying I'd want an assload of them, but enough to make up a good sample size.
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#12 Aug 12 2010 at 1:36 AM Rating: Default
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Opinions are great, I agree and SE is taking a lot of feedback with this game. It just seems like they have never played a game before. I know their is a learning curve with new games and exspecially with an MMO. But dam, some of these people are just so clueless about what to do. It's kinda funny.
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#13 Aug 12 2010 at 1:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Frebaut wrote:
Opinions are great, I agree and SE is taking a lot of feedback with this game. It just seems like they have never played a game before. I know their is a learning curve with new games and exspecially with an MMO. But dam, some of these people are just so clueless about what to do. It's kinda funny.


I'd like to read some of these posts, but you're probably not allowed to repost them here.
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#14 Aug 12 2010 at 2:07 AM Rating: Good
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Maybe the OP idea of the "japanese beta" is the in-house tester team.

IIRC there was a recuritment in japan for tester (as a job). Those tester are "paid" to test the end game content and other gameplay function. The "closed beta" which we are invited to will help spot what those paid tester overlooked and server stress testing.

Basiclly even the "closed beta" can be a version or two behind what the company's current progress is at.
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#15 Aug 12 2010 at 2:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Frebaut wrote:
I'm watching some Beta stuff and people are so dam stupid!! It's like they never have played an MMO before. THEY HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO DO ANYTHING. The 22nd is going to be filled with so many dumb asses ( probably me included). I mean i'm not perfect but come on. I wish i could show you guys some of the stuff and these people on vent say and what they do.

IE: abilities/skills what are those?


Is it that people dont know how to do anything or is it that they are properly conducting their work as a beta tester.

The role of a beta tester is to test. They are supposed to try and get stuck, to act in ways that the developers had not considered in order to identify bugs.

If you are watching video of a beta player and they appear to be acting strange - maybe they have no idea of what they are doing, or maybe they know exactly what they are doing. I have previously beta tested and was criticised for repeatedly jumping into an area between a platform and a wall. I was trying to determine whether it was possible to get stuck. If I had of got stuck, I would have raised a ticket, advised of my situation and pointed it out for fixing.

Did I look like I had no idea what I was doing, Yes. Did I know what I was doing, Yes!
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#16 Aug 12 2010 at 2:23 AM Rating: Good
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HallieXIV wrote:
Frebaut wrote:
I'm watching some Beta stuff and people are so dam stupid!! It's like they never have played an MMO before. THEY HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO DO ANYTHING. The 22nd is going to be filled with so many dumb asses ( probably me included). I mean i'm not perfect but come on. I wish i could show you guys some of the stuff and these people on vent say and what they do.

IE: abilities/skills what are those?


Is it that people dont know how to do anything or is it that they are properly conducting their work as a beta tester.

The role of a beta tester is to test. They are supposed to try and get stuck, to act in ways that the developers had not considered in order to identify bugs.

If you are watching video of a beta player and they appear to be acting strange - maybe they have no idea of what they are doing, or maybe they know exactly what they are doing. I have previously beta tested and was criticised for repeatedly jumping into an area between a platform and a wall. I was trying to determine whether it was possible to get stuck. If I had of got stuck, I would have raised a ticket, advised of my situation and pointed it out for fixing.

Did I look like I had no idea what I was doing, Yes. Did I know what I was doing, Yes!


This is accurate. Real beta testers, the paid ones, are people who are paid to run into the same wall 20 times to see if you go through it, to open and close a door over and over to see if it falls through the floor, to sit down on a chair 20 or 30 times to see if you sit backwards or upside down, etc...

This is what beta testers are SUPPOSED to do: They're supposed to TRY to break the game.
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#17 Aug 12 2010 at 4:11 AM Rating: Decent
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RIDDER wrote:
And what is also really sad is so MANY testers are bi*ching and complaining about how the game is running and all of the issues they are having.

IT IS BETA PEOPLE!


Counterpoint: that excuse only goes so far. They go live in only 6 weeks - and everything that goes on the game disc needs to be finalized in 2 weeks.
#18 Aug 12 2010 at 4:16 AM Rating: Decent
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BastokFL wrote:
RIDDER wrote:
And what is also really sad is so MANY testers are bi*ching and complaining about how the game is running and all of the issues they are having.

IT IS BETA PEOPLE!


Counterpoint: that excuse only goes so far. They go live in only 6 weeks - and everything that goes on the game disc needs to be finalized in 2 weeks.


True but we all know that between final game disc and the version we all log into on 22 September there will be a download at least as big again as the game disc as they fix the final issues coming out of Beta!
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#19 Aug 12 2010 at 4:24 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
HallieXIV wrote:
Frebaut wrote:
I'm watching some Beta stuff and people are so dam stupid!! It's like they never have played an MMO before. THEY HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO DO ANYTHING. The 22nd is going to be filled with so many dumb asses ( probably me included). I mean i'm not perfect but come on. I wish i could show you guys some of the stuff and these people on vent say and what they do.

IE: abilities/skills what are those?


Is it that people dont know how to do anything or is it that they are properly conducting their work as a beta tester.

The role of a beta tester is to test. They are supposed to try and get stuck, to act in ways that the developers had not considered in order to identify bugs.

If you are watching video of a beta player and they appear to be acting strange - maybe they have no idea of what they are doing, or maybe they know exactly what they are doing. I have previously beta tested and was criticised for repeatedly jumping into an area between a platform and a wall. I was trying to determine whether it was possible to get stuck. If I had of got stuck, I would have raised a ticket, advised of my situation and pointed it out for fixing.

Did I look like I had no idea what I was doing, Yes. Did I know what I was doing, Yes!


This is accurate. Real beta testers, the paid ones, are people who are paid to run into the same wall 20 times to see if you go through it, to open and close a door over and over to see if it falls through the floor, to sit down on a chair 20 or 30 times to see if you sit backwards or upside down, etc...

This is what beta testers are SUPPOSED to do: They're supposed to TRY to break the game.


Paid Beta Testers, say what? I've been doing Q.A. at a developer in the games industry for 10 years. In-house testers perform the tedious "run into the same wall 20 times" tests. For the most part the in-house testers are only at the developer side performing those tasks with publisher, 3rd Party, public beta testers being left to run wild and see what they come up with.

There are a few situations where you want to guide beta testers to do something or another, but it's not common. A beta testers job isn't primarily to see if they can get stuck, or try to break systems etc. It is mostly to play the game as the end user would be experiencing it and raising all issues that come up along the way.

Beta testers aren't there playing the game and they aren't there to test the game... they're doing both at the same time as it is all relevant information to a dev team.
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#20 Aug 12 2010 at 4:29 AM Rating: Decent
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HallieXIV wrote:
BastokFL wrote:
RIDDER wrote:
And what is also really sad is so MANY testers are bi*ching and complaining about how the game is running and all of the issues they are having.

IT IS BETA PEOPLE!


Counterpoint: that excuse only goes so far. They go live in only 6 weeks - and everything that goes on the game disc needs to be finalized in 2 weeks.


True but we all know that between final game disc and the version we all log into on 22 September there will be a download at least as big again as the game disc as they fix the final issues coming out of Beta!


Even then,

6 weeks.

That's all the time they have.
#21 Aug 12 2010 at 5:21 AM Rating: Default
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They have 6 weeks till it drops then the rest of the life span of the game to fix stuff. I mean come on we all know the 8 day head start is a Beta that were all paying for. Also its to make sure the servers do not crash on the 30th when everyone else is logging in.

The people were clueless how to play and what stuff was for. Vent is great for that stuff. I'm not in Beta but i was telling them how to do stuff. Ya its funny and sad at the same time. no sleep for me. like i said earlier were all going to be a little clueless on stuff in ffxiv but watching beta helps with the easy stuff and some Tech stuff also in the game.
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#22 Aug 12 2010 at 5:26 AM Rating: Good
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Frebaut wrote:
They have 6 weeks till it drops then the rest of the life span of the game to fix stuff. I mean come on we all know the 8 day head start is a Beta that were all paying for. Also its to make sure the servers do not crash on the 30th when everyone else is logging in.

The people were clueless how to play and what stuff was for. Vent is great for that stuff. I'm not in Beta but i was telling them how to do stuff. Ya its funny and sad at the same time. no sleep for me. like i said earlier were all going to be a little clueless on stuff in ffxiv but watching beta helps with the easy stuff and some Tech stuff also in the game.


The beta is a beta, the release version is the release version. There may be some issues when initially beginning - but I'd wager the proportion of the problems has been blown out largely. The issues probably won't be that horrible.

More importantly though, what does it matter to you how someone else is playing the beta? Who cares if they're clueless or not? I sincerely hope you don't drag this mentality into the game. You may end up being that guy in the LS that's like "ffs, don't know about the 1.354ms delay in the macros that makes it perfect?".

In short - Shhhh, you'll get your chance to show off your mad skills.
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#23 Aug 12 2010 at 5:36 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Counterpoint: that excuse only goes so far. They go live in only 6 weeks - and everything that goes on the game disc needs to be finalized in 2 weeks.



Still, that's assuming that beta is is intended to be the completed product, which it isn't. Testers are playing only the things SE wants to have tested, and in-house testers have been working on everything else.

Besides, where did you get that they'd need a month to put this thing to press? There was a Twitter pic a while back showing that all the packaging is done and all that is needed is to put the information on a disc. Some games have sent their information out as late as a week before the street date. I think Modern Warfare 2 did this, but I'll have to dig up a source to be certain, and that game shipped far more units than XIV will.
#24 Aug 12 2010 at 5:39 AM Rating: Decent
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every game has its bugs, especially online games upon release.. the beta is here to make sure the game is enjoyable to play. obviously to fix issues too, but they really cant afford the loss in trust/customers due to having to make major changes to how something works within the game after it being on release for only a few days/weeks due to the concept simply not working or being so unwieldy that everyone in the game stays away from that aspect of it. so that's what we're here for to fix... the next thing i've heard most people wanting sorted is hardware mouse over software (as unless u have a super pc, software will just feel clunky) and fixing the bloody fishing o.0
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#25 Aug 12 2010 at 6:02 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
More importantly though, what does it matter to you how someone else is playing the beta? Who cares if they're clueless or not? I sincerely hope you don't drag this mentality into the game. You may end up being that guy in the LS that's like "ffs, don't know about the 1.354ms delay in the macros that makes it perfect?".

I'm far from one of those hard core gamers, I was just stating that some people have no idea about the game. i play games to have fun and relax and i could careless what others do or what weapons/armor they have. **** when i first played FFXI i couldn't find my way out of Port Sandy, took me about an hour i was completely lost....

So when the 22nd and the 30th hit their is going to be a lot of clueless people, heck I'll be their as well. i was just surprised how many got into the beta that never played an MMO before. Who knows what they put on the app to get in and i understand that SE wants people in their that have never played an MMO before for their feed back. It was just funny about what they were saying/asking how to do stuff on vent.
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#26 Aug 12 2010 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
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Frebaut wrote:

Quote:
More importantly though, what does it matter to you how someone else is playing the beta? Who cares if they're clueless or not? I sincerely hope you don't drag this mentality into the game. You may end up being that guy in the LS that's like "ffs, don't know about the 1.354ms delay in the macros that makes it perfect?".

I'm far from one of those hard core gamers, I was just stating that some people have no idea about the game. i play games to have fun and relax and i could careless what others do or what weapons/armor they have. **** when i first played FFXI i couldn't find my way out of Port Sandy, took me about an hour i was completely lost....

So when the 22nd and the 30th hit their is going to be a lot of clueless people, heck I'll be their as well. i was just surprised how many got into the beta that never played an MMO before. Who knows what they put on the app to get in and i understand that SE wants people in their that have never played an MMO before for their feed back. It was just funny about what they were saying/asking how to do stuff on vent.


The tune seems to have changed from:

Quote:
I'm watching some Beta stuff and people are so dam stupid!


That's cool. I'm happy you've come around.
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#27 Aug 12 2010 at 6:24 AM Rating: Decent
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The amount of issues in the beta does have me a bit concerned. I just hope that it all works out for release and that they do actually have a more finalized copy of the game.
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#28 Aug 12 2010 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
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Sephrick wrote:
Besides, where did you get that they'd need a month to put this thing to press?


The general rule in the gaming industry is the gold masters need to be delivered to the manufacturer at least a month before release - possibly even longer for a particularly large print run.

Discs can only be manufactured so fast, after all - a single production line can only press 30,000 discs per day. Even using multiple production lines, there's only so fast you can go. Then add in shipping and distribution time...
#29 Aug 12 2010 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
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Heoki wrote:
The amount of issues in the beta does have me a bit concerned. I just hope that it all works out for release and that they do actually have a more finalized copy of the game.


I wouldn't be concerned. The version used for Phase 2 was approximately 3 weeks old when P2 began. Many issues discovered or undiscovered by beta testers were probably already fixed by the time these beta phases began.
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#30 Aug 12 2010 at 7:03 AM Rating: Decent
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at the start of phase 2 the servers could barely stay up for 5 minutes let alone 24/7 and the shear number of bugs to even get into the game was insane, they've fixed a huge amount already in a short time, so i've got my hopes up that they can fix all the remaining major bugs before release. the only thing i'm worried about is how small a physical ingame area we're testing... i'm worried about how many unknown bugs there could be in the other starting cities/areas that have yet to be beta tested.
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#31 Aug 12 2010 at 7:19 AM Rating: Default
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My original post was harsh, I should of toned it down. I still think on the 22nd we'll find more bug and glitches. I wouldn't expect any game to come out without them especially an MMO. I also still think the CE is a pay to play because it is even though you get some stuff with it. I think its great strategy by SE let all the players who want to get in early and play because they will help SE fine tune the game for the 30th launch and I'm ok with that.

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#32 Aug 12 2010 at 7:50 AM Rating: Good
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BastokFL wrote:
RIDDER wrote:
And what is also really sad is so MANY testers are bi*ching and complaining about how the game is running and all of the issues they are having.

IT IS BETA PEOPLE!


Counterpoint: that excuse only goes so far. They go live in only 6 weeks - and everything that goes on the game disc needs to be finalized in 2 weeks.


In the MMO world, the only thing that's on the disc that will actually matter is the installer and the art assets. Everything else will be replaced with the launch day patch.

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 9:51am by KarlHungis
#33 Aug 12 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Decent
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oh! you just reminded me of something else i REALLY hope they change for the final version... the update system. they built a very crappy torrent program which is great at uploading, not very good at downloading.. thankfully though you can find the beta files and manually torrent them which makes it super fast.
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#34 Aug 12 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Beta is now pretty much in stress testing stage, Your not playing on even a close to release verison of the game. At this point in time they will not be making many fixes other than game breaking ones.. but at the same time you may not really know what bugs are fixed or what not...

At this point it really is free play.... now they just stress the servers... expect bugs at release.. but dont expect them to be game breaking..
#35 Aug 12 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Not trying to flame anyone but I think for the sake of SE, having a variety of beta testers is a good thing. Remember your first MMORPG? Did you know what you were doing? Probably not, you had to ask questions in the game, read forums, the main website, etc. I think it is good that there are some noob players that are experimenting things. You might find them 'lacking intelligence' but perhaps they found a bug that you would not have found.

You see, an average or familiarized MMORPG player would have a sense or ability to pick up the game fast. People like us would be able to just go through the game flow as expected. That is correct, or maybe a few bumps along the way in the game. We probably would not test things that new 1st timers will play. But if they were caught earlier, it improves the quality of the game experience and software.

On the other hand, it is a little sad that the new players are not trying out new things. Afterall, it is beta so experiment! I probably would not be a weaver but at least I give it a shot. Trying doesn't hurt but at least you can form your own views, opinions, insight, and let everyone know.
#36 Aug 12 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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greenminttea wrote:
Not trying to flame anyone but I think for the sake of SE, having a variety of beta testers is a good thing. Remember your first MMORPG? Did you know what you were doing? Probably not, you had to ask questions in the game, read forums, the main website, etc. I think it is good that there are some noob players that are experimenting things. You might find them 'lacking intelligence' but perhaps they found a bug that you would not have found.

You see, an average or familiarized MMORPG player would have a sense or ability to pick up the game fast. People like us would be able to just go through the game flow as expected. That is correct, or maybe a few bumps along the way in the game. We probably would not test things that new 1st timers will play. But if they were caught earlier, it improves the quality of the game experience and software.

On the other hand, it is a little sad that the new players are not trying out new things. Afterall, it is beta so experiment! I probably would not be a weaver but at least I give it a shot. Trying doesn't hurt but at least you can form your own views, opinions, insight, and let everyone know.


This is definitely true. There are so many conventions that exist in MMOs that we as experienced players simply take for granted. There are even conventions within FFXIV that carry over from FFXI that we take for granted. Some one mentioned for example that you need to talk to Baderon to unlock one of your introductory abilities, and that you need to select and talk to an NPC just to get out of the starting area. For some one coming from FFXI, talking to people in order to get to the next step is common sense, but what if you don't know that you're supposed to tab target an NPC and select them to talk to them? What if you only played WoW and expect to see a symbol above any one's head any time you're supposed to talk to them?

Without bringing in "newbs" you won't spot these issues and realize that maybe you need to hold people's hands a little tighter and guide them through the introductory experience.

Back in Ultima Online days, they dropped you into an open PvP world with a dagger and some pants and a crafting tool or two (depending on what skills you decided to start with) and you were pretty much screwed until you died a lot and figured out how to avoid PKs and actually make money and raise skills. A lot of people stuck it out because in those days there were no other MMOs and if you were even trying UO it probably meant you were kind of a hard core gamer in the first place, but these days UO would have barely any player retention past the first 30 days because people would get frustrated and go back to WoW.
#37 Aug 12 2010 at 3:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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BastokFL wrote:


Even then,

6 weeks.

That's all the time they have.


It's entirely possible we are not playing the *latest* build in beta, there wasn't a lot of time between alpha and beta, but the changes between the two were so huge! (from what I've seen in screenshots/movies and reading the forums) Surely they didn't do ALL that coding in only a couple months? Beta build was probably already mostly finished when alpha went live. And judging from the fact that phase 3 testers are not allow to post on the official beta forums at all (and only alpha testers can post in the official feedback sections) we are just server cattle and likely only playing an older build of the game.
#38 Aug 12 2010 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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I hope SE stays true to focusing on the FFXI playerbase and not MMO community in general.
The MMO community (in my opinion) is not exactly a reliable source...You can browse through MMORPG and see the large amount of games these people are willing to play. Sickening.
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#39 Aug 12 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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I think that an important thing for people to realise is that the beta is not an abbreviated version of the final game. It is an "extract" of the game put onto a server for people to log and play. It is not like the beta version will be developed and developed up to release date and then the version of the game that was beta suddenly becomes retail release.

The beta is a small part of the game, put onto a dedicated server in order that testers can work on the mechanics. As we speak, the beta testers are testing the beta and hopefully identifying issues. As these issues are identified they are being updated in the full version of the game currently only accessible to SE's developers.

Regarding the burn runs of the game to disk, for all we know this may already be underway and the packaged retail versions could be winging their way to the four corners of the globe. Any changes between now and 22 September will be provided in a patch, just as any subsequent changes will be released in a patch. Does anyone remember how long it took to get the game going on any other MMORPG's even if they purchased on release day? I know that I for one had to wait for massive patch downloads.

In short, just because the beta is ongoing, dont assume the wheels are not turning on retail release.
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#40 Aug 12 2010 at 4:07 PM Rating: Decent
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lambon wrote:
I hope SE stays true to focusing on the FFXI playerbase and not MMO community in general.
The MMO community (in my opinion) is not exactly a reliable source...You can browse through MMORPG and see the large amount of games these people are willing to play. Sickening.


I played FFXI for some years so am part of the FFXI playerbase you refer to.

If I were not, I would feel quite offended by your statement. Does the fact that we played FFXI make us any more important that any other player. Surely we want to welcome with open arms other players coming to our game, not alienate them by suggesting that the only players that matter are those that played (or still play) FFXI.

Perhaps I have misunderstood you or taken out of context but this post sounds a little us vs them!
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#41 Aug 12 2010 at 4:17 PM Rating: Good
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We're talking Square Enix here, and Final Fantasy which has been around since 1987!! I think 6-weeks is plenty of time for that group of technical Gods to fine tune and have the game ready for release.

By watching their You Tube videos, I get the impression that they're keeping alot of the game to themselves. They want us to be completely blown away when we see the final product.
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#42 Aug 12 2010 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Frebaut, the only thing id worry bout when the masses log in is how long it'll take you people to login. id rather have mindless idiots come in starting from scratch and having a genunie blast with the game which means more revenue for SE which means more than likely juicer expansions or whatever they plan to do. Really the world will not end and i applaud any newcomers to experience the world of final fantasy. the most important thing about games is it helps us escape the logics of the real world and we can use our imagination and emotions to do what makes us happy. This does sound like a scolding, really its not, just we need to be refreshed from time to time why we play games in the first place, we play for community, adventure and above all else fun!

Let's set aside any old traits we have grew into and experience a new world filled with new people we can create a friendship with, im freaking pumped for this and football (aaron rodgers mvp check it)
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#43 Aug 13 2010 at 1:00 AM Rating: Default
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I'm not a You people kind of guy. I'm a very casual gamer,**** i played ffxi for 5 years and i have 1 lvl 80 and 1 lvl 75 job. I guess you missed some of my other post in this thread. I would suggest you go back and read what i wrote and you might see i'm not one of You people. I am very excited to play FFXIV from the start get lost and have no idea what and how to do stuff. Sept will be my Dec 25th.
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#44 Aug 13 2010 at 2:56 AM Rating: Good
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HallieXIV wrote:
lambon wrote:
I hope SE stays true to focusing on the FFXI playerbase and not MMO community in general.
The MMO community (in my opinion) is not exactly a reliable source...You can browse through MMORPG and see the large amount of games these people are willing to play. Sickening.


I played FFXI for some years so am part of the FFXI playerbase you refer to.

If I were not, I would feel quite offended by your statement. Does the fact that we played FFXI make us any more important that any other player. Surely we want to welcome with open arms other players coming to our game, not alienate them by suggesting that the only players that matter are those that played (or still play) FFXI.

Perhaps I have misunderstood you or taken out of context but this post sounds a little us vs them!


I'm pretty sure that that's what he's saying, and I don't entirely disagree. Yes, we want to attract new people who haven't played FFXI, but FFXI players should be the primary target that SE should hope to attract and aim their product at.

I'm sure Starcraft II was picked up by people who played AoE3 or EE2 or even Warcraft 3, but SC1 players were the target audience. Similarly, grand theft auto games are aimed at a certain type of audience as well.

Obviously you don't want to just limit yourself to that; you want to try to reach new players with a new game, but a group of dedicated players from your other game come in to play is a group of people you want to focus your attentions on.

FFXIV definitely shouldn't be a clone of FFXI, otherwise there's no point to playing and we should all go back to FFXI. But FFXI players should be FFXIV's target playerbase, sure. That doesn't have to be (and shouldn't be) at the expense of everyone else though.
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#45 Aug 13 2010 at 3:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm pretty sure that that's what he's saying, and I don't entirely disagree. Yes, we want to attract new people who haven't played FFXI, but FFXI players should be the primary target that SE should hope to attract and aim their product at.


I agree, aiming to attract general MMO players is bound to fail, there is no loyalty among the majority of them and they leave MMO's when something prettier comes along. Aion, AoC etc are all dying off due to this. Aiming the game at an established long standing playerbase FFXI had while trying to get some extra people into it will play off better.

It's faily obvious they realised this a while ago anyway, from the initial "totally different brand new game" to what is basically tturning into a FFXI remake. The cloning of all the races and emotes that go with them was the first big indication how bad they wanted the playerbase they have now to move along with them and how important they are.
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#46 Aug 13 2010 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I'm sure Starcraft II was picked up by people who played AoE3 or EE2 or even Warcraft 3, but SC1 players were the target audience. Similarly, grand theft auto games are aimed at a certain type of audience as well.


Not quite the same thing though. None of those games are subscription-based, so the only source of revenue is box sales - thus the only way to draw revenue from players of previous games is to make the new one appeal to them enough that they switch over.

FFXI and FFXIV on the other hand ARE subscription-based, and the revenue generated by subscription fees far outweighs that from box sales; so from a purely business standpoint the best option is to continue running the older game and developing content for it (if need be, even updating the engine and redoing the art assets - something other older MMOs have done, sometimes several times) while targeting the new game at a different audience.

FFXI is, after all, SE's single most profitable product; the company's online division overall runs a profit margin in excess of 60%. When the cash cow is mooing happily, you usually don't want to sneak a side of beef off of it.

preludes wrote:
I agree, aiming to attract general MMO players is bound to fail, there is no loyalty among the majority of them and they leave MMO's when something prettier comes along. Aion, AoC etc are all dying off due to this. Aiming the game at an established long standing playerbase FFXI had while trying to get some extra people into it will play off better.


It has less to do with fickle players and more to do with bad design decisions and technical problems.

First, mandatory open-world PvP RPGs are a fairly small niche in North America (and a slightly larger niche in Europe), despite how vocal harcore PvPers can get - even in WoW, the majority of servers are PvE and PvE servers have higher average population. (South Korea, on the other hand, loves PvP; Japan is rather "meh" on the entire concept of MMOs right now.)

Second, any game trying to compete with WoW is going to fail at it. WoW is enormous, pulls in absolutely obscene revenue, and currently has nearly a decade of active development behind it. Very few companies have the resources to even hope to challenge the behemoth successfully - certainly not Funcom or NCSoft. Likely the only upcoming MMO that even has a shot of dethroning WoW is SWTOR, which has a strong license and is being bankrolled by EA.

Third, I don't really think AoC can really be said to be "dying", at least no more than FFXI is "dying". Yes, they drastically reduced the number of servers a year and a half ago, but the population seems to be stable now, and they just released their first expansion three months ago - clearly not as successful as they had hoped, but apparently popular enough to maintain (certainly, no one makes and expansion for an MMO that is on the brink of death).

Aion just had a massive server merge on North America and Europe; it's still to early to tell if they're finding the right size or if it's an omen of future shutdown in those regions, although the game is still doing quite well in South Korea.
#47 Aug 13 2010 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
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Frebaut wrote:
I feal sorry


Frebaut wrote:
people are so dam stupid!!
#48 Aug 13 2010 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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BastokFL wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I'm sure Starcraft II was picked up by people who played AoE3 or EE2 or even Warcraft 3, but SC1 players were the target audience. Similarly, grand theft auto games are aimed at a certain type of audience as well.


Not quite the same thing though. None of those games are subscription-based, so the only source of revenue is box sales - thus the only way to draw revenue from players of previous games is to make the new one appeal to them enough that they switch over.

FFXI and FFXIV on the other hand ARE subscription-based, and the revenue generated by subscription fees far outweighs that from box sales; so from a purely business standpoint the best option is to continue running the older game and developing content for it (if need be, even updating the engine and redoing the art assets - something other older MMOs have done, sometimes several times) while targeting the new game at a different audience.

FFXI is, after all, SE's single most profitable product; the company's online division overall runs a profit margin in excess of 60%. When the cash cow is mooing happily, you usually don't want to sneak a side of beef off of it.


Whether a game is subscription based or not shouldn't change the fact that the best way to convince players to try your product is to offer them something that will make your product appeal to them. If anything, this would apply even more to a subscription based game because players can be fickle and transitive at times.

BastokFL wrote:
preludes wrote:
I agree, aiming to attract general MMO players is bound to fail, there is no loyalty among the majority of them and they leave MMO's when something prettier comes along. Aion, AoC etc are all dying off due to this. Aiming the game at an established long standing playerbase FFXI had while trying to get some extra people into it will play off better.


It has less to do with fickle players and more to do with bad design decisions and technical problems.

First, mandatory open-world PvP RPGs are a fairly small niche in North America (and a slightly larger niche in Europe), despite how vocal harcore PvPers can get - even in WoW, the majority of servers are PvE and PvE servers have higher average population. (South Korea, on the other hand, loves PvP; Japan is rather "meh" on the entire concept of MMOs right now.)

Second, any game trying to compete with WoW is going to fail at it. WoW is enormous, pulls in absolutely obscene revenue, and currently has nearly a decade of active development behind it. Very few companies have the resources to even hope to challenge the behemoth successfully - certainly not Funcom or NCSoft. Likely the only upcoming MMO that even has a shot of dethroning WoW is SWTOR, which has a strong license and is being bankrolled by EA.

Third, I don't really think AoC can really be said to be "dying", at least no more than FFXI is "dying". Yes, they drastically reduced the number of servers a year and a half ago, but the population seems to be stable now, and they just released their first expansion three months ago - clearly not as successful as they had hoped, but apparently popular enough to maintain (certainly, no one makes and expansion for an MMO that is on the brink of death).

Aion just had a massive server merge on North America and Europe; it's still to early to tell if they're finding the right size or if it's an omen of future shutdown in those regions, although the game is still doing quite well in South Korea.


Totally agree with a lot of this, but from a financial standpoint it always looks bad if you have a huge starting population... and then it just falls apart 2-3 months in when people realize your game isn't offering them anything they haven't already seen before.

And South Koreans are crazy. FFS their national sport was a 10+ year old game up until a few weeks ago, and they love it so much that Blizzard is letting them play SC2 for FREE so long as they have an active subscription to WoW. Of course this may have a lot to do with the way PC bangs work, but still...

All any game needs is enough income to keep them in business, fund new content, and make a tidy profit. They don't need to take a major chunk out of WoW to be profitable, although for a lot of devs, they seem to think that being the most popular is the ONLY way to be profitable, so they try to copy what WoW does in an effort to out-WoW WoW. There's one HUGE problem with that.

Screenshot


But still, I agree with you for the most part.
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#49 Aug 13 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
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I am a dissenting voice on the MMO issue.

Loved FFXI, liked WoW (for a while). But I have not seen a single positive comment about Aion, and I must say that it was my favourite MMO since FFXI. Community was good (ingame) and as soon as the WoW fanboys left after month 2 or 3 it was great.

The biggest single criticism seemed to be that it was something of a grind, and yet the same people played and loved FFXI which is the most grindy game I have ever played.

I dont understand.

bout time FFXIV was released though. I need a new hobby for the next X years!
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#50 Aug 13 2010 at 7:17 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Whether a game is subscription based or not shouldn't change the fact that the best way to convince players to try your product is to offer them something that will make your product appeal to them. If anything, this would apply even more to a subscription based game because players can be fickle and transitive at times.


Actually, on second thought, the best course of action, which actually seems a lot like what SE is actually doing, is aiming the game primarily at people who played FFXI, but quit for some reason or other.

After all, people who still play FFXI are still giving them money, so there's no need to switch them over to a different way of giving you money. On the other hand, former FFXI players aren't giving SE money anymore, but are probably the easiest group to convince to give SE more money as long as the new game addresses those issues that made them quit.
#51 Aug 14 2010 at 5:03 AM Rating: Good
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BastokFL wrote:
After all, people who still play FFXI are still giving them money, so there's no need to switch them over to a different way of giving you money. On the other hand, former FFXI players aren't giving SE money anymore, but are probably the easiest group to convince to give SE more money as long as the new game addresses those issues that made them quit.


That does seem like what they're doing. I fit right into that plan being a life-long final fantasy fan, but not really big on mmos save for ffxi. Got into xi late, was forever playing catch-up and would still be playing catch-up had I not retired. Be it starting late, inability to play 10+ hours a day, or whatever mix made people quit xi, looks like SE wants those people back to try xiv, hopefully attracting people from other mmos in the process.
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