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Magic classes in BETAFollow

#1 Aug 12 2010 at 12:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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After hearing a lot of beta reports out I feel really good about this game in general... now the only thing I am worried about (other than reports that the game is best soloed atm) is that magic classes seem utterly gimped - I've heard their progress was/is crappy (no class skill for using spells? wtf?) and it seems really unfair that hp regens but mp does not.

Yes, I know this is BETA - so I am hoping this gets fixed - but is anyone else worried? Does anyone have a perspective they could share on this?

I can understand the concern about everyone getting auto-refresh because DoW have a lot of MP - but surely DoM could get some refresh or something?

Does anyone else hope they make it a bit more fair so that mages are not always having to hang around a crystal? Can anyone give us a heads up on whether the current system is working?

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 11:13am by Olorinus
#2 Aug 12 2010 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
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It was extremely slow going in phase 2 (at least for me), but it's been going insanely fast now. I got Conjurer from rank 1 to rank 6 in about an hour and a half, where I only got it to a max of rank 4 last time. I would imagine that the massive skill gains were implemented so people could test higher ranked stuff faster.
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#3 Aug 12 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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are you getting class skill points now from spells? Or only for spirit dart etc?
#4 Aug 12 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus wrote:
are you getting class skill points now from spells? Or only for spirit dart etc?

Both, actually. I usually alternate Spirit Dart with an elemental spell. The game starts you out with Fire and Blizzard mapped to your action bar, but I usually change that to Aero and Stone. Aero seems to be doing quite a bit of damage, depending on what I fight.
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#5 Aug 12 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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oh that is good, I was reading that you were only getting skill ups from spirit dart. I can see how they wouldn't want you to gain skills for spamming heal... because that would mean insta-leveling pretty much....

it does seem problematic though if people end up being expected to heal a lot in a party.
#6 Aug 12 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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I think a partial solution would be like you said in the other thread - to award skill points for heals based on dmg cured... that way spamming yourself wouldn't work... but I am sure there are problems with that too. I bet the magic classes are causing SE a lot of headaches at the moment.
#7 Aug 12 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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I was always getting skill ups for class with spells, even in phase 2. Not sure where you got that information. In fact Spirit Dart only gave a few points where as the spells like Fire were giving a lot more, almost double that of Spirit Dart. I stayed around the Aetheryte and grinded on mobs that way.
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#8 Aug 12 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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cool! thanks for clearing up my misconception. I had been hearing mage class levels were lagging way behind melee class levels because they weren't getting skill ups (I don't even remember where I heard that because I read a heck of a lot)
#9 Aug 12 2010 at 4:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Great topic, and one that I have pondering for some time now. I am still unclear on the dynamics of mage jobs, since you have no way to replenish MP unless you go back to the Aetheryte.

I assume mages who are soloing will actually be hitting mobs with their staffs? If so, how infrequent are you casting spells like Fire for fear of running out of MP too quickly?

If there is one thing that is really bothering me about FFXIV, it's the notion of no form for MP regeneration. This is also compounded by my lack of understanding the play dynamics for mage jobs at the moment.

More info her would be greatly appreciated!
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#10 Aug 12 2010 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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I've played Conjurer from 1 to 10 in phase 3, so i can give some insight:

First up: You have a 30 min recast ability that restores anywhere from 105-190 MP (no clue what stat modifies this).
Second: Aetheryte are EVERYWHERE. If you run out of mp, you are no more than 5 min run to a crystal which will restore you to full mp.
Third: You have a weapon skill you get at level 10 that costs 1000tp (about 3 spirit dart attacks) and deals damage AND restores about 10 mp.
Finally: Spirit Darts do about 50-80 damage on normal hits, meaning you will still do damage without mp.

One (awesome) thing to note is that Conjurer spells do some pretty intense damage, more so than pugilist weapon skills. Fire I (which I have a lot of elemental points into, but i don't know if that effects it) does about 180 damage, costs 10 mp, and has about a 4 second recast. My pugilist at rank 11 does concussive blow and ground strike for around 130-150 damage, and requires 2-3 attacks to rebuild tp to perform again, plus they miss A LOT. Between Fire and Blizzard (only 2 DD spells I have equipped, other abilities are more important), you can burn through MP and deal some ridiculous damage.

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#11 Aug 12 2010 at 4:36 PM Rating: Good
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I guess it all depends on how much mana you have vs how the spells cost scales. You're not exactly talking about being able to xp grind ala FFXI if you're out of mana in 5 minutes.

I'm guessing that this will either change somehow, or spells are suplemental to other damage dealing abilities you have?

Or is there not enough information yet?
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#12 Aug 12 2010 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
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yeah I was wondering the same thing - if melee classes can just chill out, not battling and regain full hp... doesn't that give them a huge advantage over spellcasting classes which have to make crystal runs?

I've heard the "pull-grind" dynamic is being pushed out in favour of other ways to level... but it isn't hard to imagine a lot of situations where it would -really- suck to be chained to MP for decent usefulness if MP doesn't regen...

Either that or mages will be the new ranger - where you have to shell out tons of gil for ethers and juices in order to stay in the game.

I guess I should level culinarian and alchemy... lol
#13 Aug 12 2010 at 4:56 PM Rating: Decent
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In phase 3, the best way to get xp (and most fun) is to get a group where everyone has guildleves stored. Then, 1 person at a time activates theirs, you complete the guildleve, get gil and xp, then warp back to aetheryte, which restores hp and mp. A typical guildleve will not take up much mp, so you will be fine. As for solo "grinding" again, aetheryte is everywhere, so if you run out, just run back and restore to full. Just because its not longer a "camp" situation does not mean that mp will be a big deal. The only time i see this potentially being an issue is with dungeon crawls or big boss battles, but even then they will be no more than 5 minutes from a crystal to restore mp.
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#14 Aug 12 2010 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
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I guess it just seems like. . unless guildleaves take awhile to complete.. you could easily run out of everyone's allotment of 8 in several hours if you go straight through.

As far as Aetherite, if casters are tied to these points for mana, then melee should be tied to hospitals to regen HP. I'm not interested in interpretations of "not a big deal", I'm interested in "Why the **** do i have to be inconvenienced when melee DD classes are not".

Unless, of course, the compensation is that we are graced with a SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER damage out put compared to melee DPS.
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#15 Aug 12 2010 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
yeah I was wondering the same thing - if melee classes can just chill out, not battling and regain full hp... doesn't that give them a huge advantage over spellcasting classes which have to make crystal runs?

I've heard the "pull-grind" dynamic is being pushed out in favour of other ways to level... but it isn't hard to imagine a lot of situations where it would -really- suck to be chained to MP for decent usefulness if MP doesn't regen...

Either that or mages will be the new ranger - where you have to shell out tons of gil for ethers and juices in order to stay in the game.

I guess I should level culinarian and alchemy... lol

this
5 min walks to OR from crystals just for mp SOUNDS inferior to DOW, is it? can DOW last longer than a DOM through soloing?
also, anyone have a button spam rotation for any classes figured out yet? most people seem to stand there for several seconds before doing anything (when fighting i mean) or is that just server lag?
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#16 Aug 12 2010 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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seneleron wrote:

As far as Aetherite, if casters are tied to these points for mana, then melee should be tied to hospitals to regen HP. I'm not interested in interpretations of "not a big deal", I'm interested in "Why the **** do i have to be inconvenienced when melee DD classes are not".

Unless, of course, the compensation is that we are graced with a SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER damage out put compared to melee DPS.


Especially since DoW classes get what looks like to be exactly the same MP as spellcasters... wtf?

Maybe it doesn't seem like a big deal right now because people are getting tricked out exp and these areas have a lot of crystals - but unless this game is going to be disgustingly easy all the way through one can imagine dungeons and higher level areas are not going to be pockmarked with crystals.

I don't mind having to meditate or something to get MP back but it seems a little ridiculous that HP self-heals and there is NO way outside of items and crystals and highly limited abilities to get MP back. It simply does not seem balanced.



Edited, Aug 12th 2010 4:21pm by Olorinus
#17 Aug 12 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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seneleron wrote:
.

Unless, of course, the compensation is that we are graced with a SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER damage out put compared to melee DPS.


I'm thinking it's going to be this. At least, I really hope so. I was seriously considering playing as a caster. If there is no upside to match the downside, I'll be scrapping that and playing as a tank or dd...

Although, it has been mentioned that there are abilities that return MP. It could make things more dynamic and cool, if you had to constantly change things up to balance out damage output and MP regen (i.e. it should be a fine line. Spamming nukes = out of MP, which means crap damage. Not spending enough MP on nukes = crap damage. Sweet spot in the middle somewhere = great damage).

MerylStryfe wrote:

Second: Aetheryte are EVERYWHERE. If you run out of mp, you are no more than 5 min run to a crystal which will restore you to full mp.
Third: You have a weapon skill you get at level 10 that costs 1000tp (about 3 spirit dart attacks) and deals damage AND restores about 10 mp.
Finally: Spirit Darts do about 50-80 damage on normal hits, meaning you will still do damage without mp.



^this is what I mean.

Next question; how much mana do the spells cost?

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 11:25pm by Fetter
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#18 Aug 12 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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again I realize this is in BETA and I am pretty confident SE will balance it out... but I sure hope people are pointing out just how imbalanced this is... MP refresh abilities on a 30 minute timer just are -not- going to cut it.
#19 Aug 12 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Especially since DoW classes get what looks like to be exactly the same MP as spellcasters... wtf?

come to think of it, someone in one of these threads confirmed that using magic outside of being DOM gimps it by about 50% (probably uses other modifiers aswell but thats what is known i guess so far) which means -creating- a RDM class or DRK class or any other melee/magic combo will be baaadly gimped due to the no MP regen and FFXI style gimping of things like accuracy and potency. each class seems to be exactly that (a specific class) and not as costumizable as people first thought, including myself.
Quote:
again I realize this is in BETA

well heres to hoping they iron things like these out, because SE has been adament in their stand on MP from the beginning, and we have yet to see any changes on it at all, so an real changes by release look slim to me.

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 7:27pm by pixelpop
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#20 Aug 12 2010 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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well to be fair DoW apparently need MP for abilities too.

I think I may also just be disgrunted due to the fact that they seem to be short-changing spellcasters in general... there are more than twice as many DoW as DoM... which frankly, sucks to begin with.

#21 Aug 12 2010 at 5:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus wrote:
After hearing a lot of beta reports out I feel really good about this game in general... now the only thing I am worried about (other than reports that the game is best soloed atm) is that magic classes seem utterly gimped - I've heard their progress was/is crappy (no class skill for using spells? wtf?) and it seems really unfair that hp regens but mp does not.

Yes, I know this is BETA - so I am hoping this gets fixed - but is anyone else worried? Does anyone have a perspective they could share on this?

I can understand the concern about everyone getting auto-refresh because DoW have a lot of MP - but surely DoM could get some refresh or something?

Does anyone else hope they make it a bit more fair so that mages are not always having to hang around a crystal? Can anyone give us a heads up on whether the current system is working?

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 11:13am by Olorinus


Well "balance" varies from person to person. I like that they have an attack and a few abilities that they can use to regenerate MP (as opposed to something as mundane and game altering as refresh) while still being able to just go all out if need be.

For Nukers to be balance with the rest of the classes, there has to be some sorta draw back to just nuking, and "hate" doesn't seem to cut it.

From what I hear crystals are plentiful, and even though "camping" parties is sorta hindered a bit, "roaming parties" that have a set path (A to B, Aetheryte to Aetheryte) should work pretty well.

Though I can see that many people are afraid of change.

I'll probably play mages either way.
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#22 Aug 12 2010 at 5:33 PM Rating: Decent
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yeah but i read the MP DOW use is more miniscule compared to DOM costs, plus magic outside DOM cost slightly more MP if in DOW, but not by a whole lot from what i remember. i still dont see a reason to rejoice unless its proven DOM are -that effective- in trade for no MP regen, then i wouldnt mind so much ^^
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#23 Aug 12 2010 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I think it's prudent to determine leveling characteristics between DoM and DoW in terms of progress against time. Meaning, if DoW get to level 1.5 times faster because they don't have to run back to a crystal every 10 mins, that's completely unbalanced.

As someone above me mentioned, I hope this is being tested for balance, discussed and raising general awareness in BETA.
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#24 Aug 12 2010 at 5:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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VayMasters wrote:

Though I can see that many people are afraid of change.


mmm. I don't think wanting things to be balanced is the same thing as "being afraid to change" - if DoW can solo pretty much forever with no downtime and no need to go to a crystal - and DoM have to stay close to crystals all the time in order to keep soloing - that is CLEARLY not balanced.


VayMasters wrote:

Well "balance" varies from person to person. I like that they have an attack and a few abilities that they can use to regenerate MP (as opposed to something as mundane and game altering as refresh) while still being able to just go all out if need be.


It is possible for things to be fairly objectively balanced, actually... given the fact that people in the community for FFXI - for example have run algorhythms and what not to compare dmg output etc - it is clearly possible to -objectively- balance classes in game.

I don't mind if things are a little bit unbalanced but if it is painful to level DoM - that would suck - because I highly prefer magic classes over melee. I've heard from some folks that DoM are at a big disadvantage because they need to stay near crystals and those areas are overcamped - for example. That -is- OBJECTIVELY, a problem as far as I see it.

Like I said I can understand not having auto-refresh, but why not have resting or meditating? That still makes it so you can't nuke endlessly without making you useless in a long dungeon or boss battle
#25 Aug 12 2010 at 5:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Does everyone here remember how immensely popular BLMs were after ToAU came out? How EVERY party wanted a BLM, and how everyone rushed out to level BLM because of how awesome it was?

That's what happens when melees can go and go and go without a break and BLMs (in this case, conjurer/thaumaturge) need to stop (or run to an aetherite) to replenish their MP. The result is that if melees can go anywhere and do anything and casters need to run to a crystal every few minutes, melees will be preferred over casters for xping purposes (but not unlike XI, I'm sure they'll expect the casters to show up to endgame events; you can't party with us, but we need you to sleep and nuke things).

I don't want to see XIV do to DoM what ToAU did to BLM.

EDIT: Maybe I'm just exaggerating because I'm not in the beta and don't know how easy/difficult it is to keep a caster going forever like a melee can, but I'm just worried about this possibility is all.

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 7:55pm by Mikhalia
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#26 Aug 12 2010 at 6:02 PM Rating: Good
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I don't actually heard any of the beta casters complaining about it. I think it sounds bad but is really a minor inconvenience.

Just like BLM in FFXI, or casters in games in general, you get to do alot of damage at the cost of not being able to mantain over a long period. I wouldn't want fighters and mages to have equal damage AND down time. Would you?
#27 Aug 12 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus wrote:
VayMasters wrote:

Though I can see that many people are afraid of change.


mmm. I don't think wanting things to be balanced is the same thing as "being afraid to change" - if DoW can solo pretty much forever with no downtime and no need to go to a crystal - and DoM have to stay close to crystals all the time in order to keep soloing - that is CLEARLY not balanced.


VayMasters wrote:

Well "balance" varies from person to person. I like that they have an attack and a few abilities that they can use to regenerate MP (as opposed to something as mundane and game altering as refresh) while still being able to just go all out if need be.


It is possible for things to be fairly objectively balanced, actually... given the fact that people in the community for FFXI - for example have run algorhythms and what not to compare dmg output etc - it is clearly possible to -objectively- balance classes in game.

I don't mind if things are a little bit unbalanced but if it is painful to level DoM - that would suck - because I highly prefer magic classes over melee. I've heard from some folks that DoM are at a big disadvantage because they need to stay near crystals and those areas are overcamped - for example. That -is- OBJECTIVELY, a problem as far as I see it.

Like I said I can understand not having auto-refresh, but why not have resting or meditating? That still makes it so you can't nuke endlessly without making you useless in a long dungeon or boss battle


It can be, if I spend 10 minutes killing easy prey mobs, and you spend 5 minutes killing even matches and two minutes and 30 seconds running to a crystal and back, and we both gain the same amount of exp, there for it would be balance in a way.

There are two many factors to determine actual "balance". Comparing pure damages is on balancing one aspect COMPLETELY ignoring how much damage is received, risk, reward, and downtime. Just damage is a bogus form of class vs class balance, UNLESS all you want to balance is damage between the two.

So mages will sacrifice stamina(not the in game stat, but how long one can go without seeking out a crystal) for greater versatility. That in many eyes is balanced.

And I'm not saying that people are afraid of change, in and of itself, just, they know what currently works for them, and they don't want to risk getting the short straw.

Quote:
but if it is painful to level DoM - that would suck


If it's painful to level any class - that would suck.

Edit: Typos

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 8:06pm by VayMasters

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 8:06pm by VayMasters
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#28 Aug 12 2010 at 6:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah I can see how this is unfair in a way, but yeah DoW may need mp for many skills too.? I may be wrong could be a hamper on them too.

Maybe refresh 'cast' will be implemented. So an Auto refresh may not be needed.

It may just be a way for SE to control how DoM skill up and forcing them to focus on only a couple skills and incorperate skills that replenish mp as well. To be more versitile on the battlefield other than just sitting in one spot, nuke, cure, rest, repeat.

Maybe SE is trying to make characters more relient on useing food. If your worried about having to buy juices w/e I guess you should learn to cook. If you don't want to then you can buy them from me on the AH.
#29 Aug 12 2010 at 6:17 PM Rating: Good
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One (awesome) thing to note is that Conjurer spells do some pretty intense damage, more so than pugilist weapon skills. Fire I (which I have a lot of elemental points into, but i don't know if that effects it) does about 180 damage, costs 10 mp, and has about a 4 second recast. My pugilist at rank 11 does concussive blow and ground strike for around 130-150 damage, and requires 2-3 attacks to rebuild tp to perform again, plus they miss A LOT. Between Fire and Blizzard (only 2 DD spells I have equipped, other abilities are more important), you can burn through MP and deal some ridiculous damage.


It seems that people are blowing right past this comment. The way I understand it, a DoM can out DD a DoW class pretty easily. This in turn allows them to gain exp faster. The down side is that they have to recharge their MP every now and then. And don't forget that both classes benefit from HP regain, not just DoW (although they do benefit more from it). Granted the damage vrs. down time is likely to not be balanced perfectly quite yet, but I have faith SE will get it right by release.
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#30 Aug 12 2010 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
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justimo wrote:
Quote:
One (awesome) thing to note is that Conjurer spells do some pretty intense damage, more so than pugilist weapon skills. Fire I (which I have a lot of elemental points into, but i don't know if that effects it) does about 180 damage, costs 10 mp, and has about a 4 second recast. My pugilist at rank 11 does concussive blow and ground strike for around 130-150 damage, and requires 2-3 attacks to rebuild tp to perform again, plus they miss A LOT. Between Fire and Blizzard (only 2 DD spells I have equipped, other abilities are more important), you can burn through MP and deal some ridiculous damage.


It seems that people are blowing right past this comment. The way I understand it, a DoM can out DD a DoW class pretty easily. This in turn allows them to gain exp faster. The down side is that they have to recharge their MP every now and then. And don't forget that both classes benefit from HP regain, not just DoW (although they do benefit more from it). Granted the damage vrs. down time is likely to not be balanced perfectly quite yet, but I have faith SE will get it right by release.


Yeah I'm gonna go with the positive approach and just think about doing some sick damage. That'll keep me happy for now. Plus after being a galka in XI, I'm gonna start with more MP than I know what to do with...I keep saying this about **** near every subject lately, but I'll keep faith in SE finding the right balance...
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#31 Aug 12 2010 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Does everyone here remember how immensely popular BLMs were after ToAU came out? How EVERY party wanted a BLM, and how everyone rushed out to level BLM because of how awesome it was?

That's what happens when melees can go and go and go without a break and BLMs (in this case, conjurer/thaumaturge) need to stop (or run to an aetherite) to replenish their MP. The result is that if melees can go anywhere and do anything and casters need to run to a crystal every few minutes, melees will be preferred over casters for xping purposes (but not unlike XI, I'm sure they'll expect the casters to show up to endgame events; you can't party with us, but we need you to sleep and nuke things).

I don't want to see XIV do to DoM what ToAU did to BLM.



This is what I am concerned about, precisely.

Particularly because right now the exp is being rocketed up - so that may be disguising the problem somewhat. I mean - I can't see dungeons having atherytes all over them - mostly because that would allow people to tele into every part of the dungeon... which itself would be a problem (too easy).

Maybe I wouldn't be so concerned if the cooldown on MP replenishing abilities weren't 30 minutes. 30 minutes is a loooong freaking time.
#32 Aug 12 2010 at 6:29 PM Rating: Good
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The other thing to remember [I have to keep my objectivity] is that they may have it setup this way just for the beta, for one reason or another. Until RTM, we won't know if this is for testing purposes, or just "the way it'll be"

Maybe others have inside information that I don't, but until RTM nothing is really set in stone, is it?

At least, I HOPE so. Being forced to be tethered to a place or an object is VERY restricting. It's the whole concept of "you are helpless beyond the help of an outside third "party" past a certain point.

I guess it's from a personal standpoint, really. I view mages as very self-reliant classes. Not necessarily physically strong, yet fully capable of causing absolute destructive mayhem due to their strengh of intellect and sheer will. That all goes out the window the second you have to head back to the gas station every 20 minutes to refuel. You're no longer self-sufficient, you're completely and totally at the mercy of some third party object or location.

The concept just. . . feels wrong.
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#33 Aug 12 2010 at 6:34 PM Rating: Good
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I notice that everyone says that Aetheryte crystals are everywhere. I would like to point out that you only know that they are everywhere in your region; what about in dungeons or maybe more secluded areas that are hard to get to?

Another thing is that they might have so many crystals in place to help with leveling in the beta, but in the release they might remove some.

Quote:
The way I understand it, a DoM can out DD a DoW class pretty easily. This in turn allows them to gain exp faster. The down side is that they have to recharge their MP every now and then. And don't forget that both classes benefit from HP regain, not just DoW (although they do benefit more from it). Granted the damage vrs. down time is likely to not be balanced perfectly quite yet, but I have faith SE will get it right by release.


I have to agree fully with you here. It seems that the experience over time ratios are about equal.
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#34 Aug 12 2010 at 6:36 PM Rating: Good
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they are equal in an area with a lot of crystals, you mean... lol
#35 Aug 12 2010 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I notice that everyone says that Aetheryte crystals are everywhere. I would like to point out that you only know that they are everywhere in your region; what about in dungeons or maybe more secluded areas that are hard to get to?


Well of course. This is a bit obvious, while we're stating the obvious, SE might remove or drastically slow down HP regen, they might have zones that allow spell casting without MP cost, they might also make Male Mi'quotes playable. Remember, Square Enix MIGHT do it.

Until someone let's us know the final, true answers to fill in the blanks, it's basically all speculation.
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#36 Aug 12 2010 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I can see it now......

IncrediblyhardNM is down to 10% health.......come on lads, nearly there, final push......
All mages.......er, sorry chaps, we're out of MP.......just kite him around a bit, we'll be back in a tick.....
10 minutes later.....we're back......IncrediblyhardNM has regenerated to 90% *************!!

SE does hate the BLM.

Or of course, you run out of MP, run off to a crystal, get aggro on the way and have no MP to cast and get eaten.

I really hope we're worrying about nothing.
#37 Aug 12 2010 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
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Does anyone know if you can use aetheryte when you or any member of your party are in combat?

Side note: For people using browsers like FF with built in spellcheckers...

"aetheryte" and "Aetheryte": consider adding them to your dictionary.

Ditto for Roegadyn, Miqo'te, etc... lest you get masses of red lines for the next decade.
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#38 Aug 12 2010 at 10:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Does anyone know how long spells take to cast? Is Spirit Dart instant? Are spells interrupted after getting hit? That could make things problematic this time around if soloing is more common.
#39 Aug 12 2010 at 11:04 PM Rating: Good
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conjurers have an ability which lengthens spell cast time and reduces chance of interrupt I believe - and one that lets them cast while moving...
#40 Aug 12 2010 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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i'm not in beta but i beileve u could combine Blood Rite (Thaumaturge ability) and Profundity for increase magic potency. Also I think there is an ability Spiritbind which reduce mp consume by half but bind u in place.

Profundity: Increase spell casting and recast time to increase magic potency
Trance Chant: Intensify your next cast, preventing it from being interrupted.

I beileve these are the 2 ability the above poster is talking abt. And blood rite in case you were wondering wat it does.

Blood Rite: spill your own blood in a sacrificial rite, enhancing magic potency.


Edited, Aug 13th 2010 5:22am by Sleepymagi

Edited, Aug 13th 2010 5:24am by Sleepymagi
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#41 Aug 13 2010 at 6:24 AM Rating: Decent
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My biggest worry right now is it sounds like in the game there is nothing but DD. I just want there to be the option to make a support character. I don't want to be DD with support slapped onto it. I lost interest in DD a few years ago I only play support and tank classes in video games and p&p games now.

Edit: I do not mind being a support class with some DD potential though.

Edited, Aug 13th 2010 8:27am by FaithseekerOishii
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#42 Aug 13 2010 at 6:28 AM Rating: Default
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From what i'm reading there isn't a whole lot of party play going on so most people are just loading up on dmg, but as far as i'm aware there are still the standard support / caster spells like Cure Protect etc. and that you can load up on healing/support spells and label yourself as a Healer/Support player.
#43 Aug 13 2010 at 6:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, hopefully we will be seeing party play soon. That's what I am more interested in currently than solo play. I don't mind though if I have to do things like spirit dirt for MP though. Will be kind of like playing Angelos from Dragon Quest 8 with seraph arrow.
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#44 Aug 13 2010 at 8:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus wrote:
well to be fair DoW apparently need MP for abilities too.

I believe your MP is tied to your character, not your class. I'll verify this next time I'm on, but my rank 7 Conjurer should have the same amount of MP if I switch to my rank 1 Thaumaturge.

Yes, some DoW do need MP for abilities. One example is the WS Red Lotus that you learn on Gladiator.

Olorinus wrote:
I think I may also just be disgrunted due to the fact that they seem to be short-changing spellcasters in general... there are more than twice as many DoW as DoM... which frankly, sucks to begin with.

This will most likely change. They did add two more mage jobs with different expansions in FFXI. I can't see why they wouldn't do it here.
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#45 Aug 13 2010 at 9:08 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
7 Conjurer should have the same amount of MP if I switch to my rank 1 Thaumaturge.


I missed that detail. So it should be a lot easier to level your second magic job since you'll have a huge MP pool plus your body attributes & resistances?
#46 Aug 13 2010 at 9:30 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I think I may also just be disgrunted due to the fact that they seem to be short-changing spellcasters in general... there are more than twice as many DoW as DoM... which frankly, sucks to begin with.


While I can see where your coming from, I have to disagree with this concept. They're not making classes up, just to have more classes. Each one has a purpose. To add more magic classes, JUST to add more magic classes would take away potential that could be added to the other 2 (3, though Arc is still up in the air).

At least you won't have to fight for you spot against another character who can do you role better than you can as another class (WHM vs RDM at levels 41+).
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#47 Aug 13 2010 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Does anyone know how long spells take to cast? Is Spirit Dart instant? Are spells interrupted after getting hit? That could make things problematic this time around if soloing is more common.


Most damage spells take around 2 sec. Cure is pretty quick too. Stoneskin and Shock Spikes seem to take a few seconds longer. There are cast times in the tooltips, but I can't seem to login at the moment.

I only very rarely get interrupted.

Btw, Conjurer's MP problems become much less severe at level 10 with the ability "Radiance" which uses 100 TP to do some pretty good damage and restore a proportional amount of MP (maybe 5% of damage done?). Class becomes much more interesting thereafter. This ability was formerly known as Levinbolt.

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#48 Aug 13 2010 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
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I've noticed some players using a shield with their Conj or Thaum. Someone mentioned that when they use their shield while they defend, it give them more points toward their development points. Is this true?
#49 Aug 13 2010 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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I am seriously not worried.

All magic classes come into their own usually during the
mid to end game area anyways.

Plus its a new game with new dynamics, with no end game in as of yet.

Even if there is ingame unbalance in the release version

SE being SE will iron things out as the game progresses


the same was true in XI jobs and abilities were adjusted all through out
the life of the game.


Plus we're ff players, we're crafty we'll find an exploit to be uber mages
and get loads of exp and still OMFG DID I JUST BLOW THAT BEASTMAN UP!!!????

/epeen grows another inch moments
#50 Aug 13 2010 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
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JayRams wrote:
Btw, Conjurer's MP problems become much less severe at level 10 with the ability "Radiance" which uses 100 TP to do some pretty good damage and restore a proportional amount of MP (maybe 5% of damage done?). Class becomes much more interesting thereafter. This ability was formerly known as Levinbolt.


This is reassuring. I'm interested on how Conjurer will do at level 15 and above. Also, have you or anyone else in beta tried the spell repose? Is that similar to bind? If so, how long does it bind the target?

Thanks and please keep us informed! =D

#51 Aug 13 2010 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Repose was a sleep spell in XI so maybe it is the same in this game? Concerning the way people are soloing in Beta, could it be because everyone is a low level so far? I know in FFXI almost everyone played solo until 10ish and then moved to the dunes to party.

I think at some point people might realize that partying is more efficient but it might take more than 10 levels.

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