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Issues within phase 3Follow

#1 Aug 16 2010 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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So I thought that I would keep everyone who did not get a beta key in on the loop.

First I will start out by saying that the over all fundamentals and game play design i'm thoroughly happy with. I also happen to be in gaming QA for a living, so I have an idea of timelines and how this alpha/beta stuff works. I have been not only testing non-stop, but also having a window open to the forums reading up on everyone's gripes about the game and then testing to see how valid their points are. Below I will post both my own opinions and the opinions of current beta testers on issues that are currently in phase 3.


- CPU and GFX card optimization. The game is going to be launched on PC only first. While I agree the PC should not have that much (if any) advantage over the PS3 users in terms of usability and playability, PC users not being able to use their full PC's power is unacceptable. This has nothing to do with how the UI works, or how the character controls are managed, this simply means that if my CPU has 8 cores, I expect to be able to use all 8 when running this game (which it currently does not support), Likewise I have heard that SLI gfx cards are also not supported yet.

- No hardware mouse. I've played WoW since release, and I have played FFXI since release (still have active accounts on both). Currently I beta test FFXIV with a game pad so technically this doesn't effect me at all, and personally I can live with or without mouse support in general. However, looking at the bigger picture and wanting this game to grow to epic proportions, the implementation of hardware mouse needs to happen. Currently mouse control is near unplayable, especially if you come from a game like WoW.

- UI needs to be held client side. Currently I am told that the UI is all held server side. What's this mean? It means every time you want to interact with your UI it has to feed to the server and then back to you. Now I wasn't a strong believer in this as being a major flaw, in fact I thought it was nice to have that stuff server side to avoid 3rd party garbage. However, after experiencing it first hand, the UI lag is nearly unbearable. It can take 1-3 seconds for your UI to update, and sometimes longer during specific actions.

- Casters and healers need more love. Currently casters and healers in general will level slower. This is more true when it comes to grouping up with others. The reason for this is that skill ups for your class occur (or can occur) every time you attack the enemy. This leaves pure healers and casters who get less attacks in in general to get far less EXP per mob. A possible fix for this that has been roaming around the forums is to just accumulate all the EXP earned in a single fight from every one, then distribute it equally once the mob dies. For example, Pugilist A gets 1,000 EXP worth of hits in, Pugilist B gets 1,500 EXP worth of hits in, and Thaumaturge A gets 500 EXP worth of hits in. Once that fight is over all 3 characters would split the total of 2,000 EXP evenly umongts themselves. If a player is not holding their own weight, kick them from the group.

- Party selection and Mob selection needs improvement. It's not unplayable by any means, but when you get more than 2 people in a party it is really hard at times to assist others on a specific mob or to select a specific teammate to heal. To my knowledge there is no f1-f6 or what ever to select a specific party member. Also there is no macro out yet to /ma "Cure" <stpc> or anything similar to that. (That macro would allow you to cast a Cure spell and then select only amongst your party members.)

- AoE spells need to be more friendly. Currently AoE buffs are insanely small on the AoE side of things. If a Conjurer casts Stoneskin on themselves it really only reaches people about 5 feet away from them. Also the duration of the spells are not nearly long enough considering how difficult it is right now to manage MP. (there is no means to refresh MP aside from aetherite and some very small TP moves). The buffs need to last I would say at least 10 minutes.

- Mana regen needs to be tweaked. I love that square has removed the resting aspect of the game nearly entirely. The way they seem to want MP regen to occur is to have the players build some TP and use TP moves (that cost no mp). An example of one of these moves is Damnation for the Thaumaturge. You build 1,000 tp (roughly 3 normal attacks) then cast it for a pretty solid 200~ damage. The only issue is that it only gives you back a very very small portion of the damage as mana. Currently with 200-250 damage Damnations, my Thaumaturge was gaining back 10-12 MP. With an MP pool of 250~ this would cause me to have to spam normal attacks and Damnation after every 3-4 spells. TLDR the abilities need to either regen more MP so we don't have to waste our time using the abilities for most of the fight, or give some form of MP regen.

- Clarify how class changes will work. Currently you can change classes at any time, just swap your weapon(s). However, you cannot change your stats when ever you want. In fact thus far you cannot change all of your stats ever to my knowledge. The most you can change seems to be 15-20% of your stats every 2~ hours. This means if you want to level say Gladiator and Thaumaturge side by side, you will have to gimp one of them on stats. Now I'm not sure if this is just for Beta or what, but there needs to be away to change all of your stats at some point so you can swap jobs and not be gimped completely on stats. For those who need an example of why this is a problem: You level Gladiator to level cap, and you have been dumping attribute points into Strength, Dex, Vit and Piety. Now you decide you want to level Thaumaturge to get some spells to use on your Gladiator. You're SOL because you can only move over 20% of your total attributed points to the stats that matter for Thaumaturge. Hello, i'm a Tank speced Thaumaturge..... Problem.

Now I know I know it may seem like a lot right now, but knowing SE's past record they like to make their Beta's very Alpha'ish. The amount of change we have seen from Alpha, to beta phase 1, 2, and 3 has been enormous. Normally I would agree with people who say "Beta is just a clean up phase, and not much will change", however this is not the case, SE seems very adamant about giving the players what they want, and this Beta is a time to find all that information out and implement it. No idea how they do it, but they seem to be doing it. Have faith, and understand this is not a DEMO, it's a BETA. We are supposed to see the ugly stuff, and report it.

As things are fixed or new things arise I will try and put them here. If you have any questions then ask away.
#2 Aug 16 2010 at 10:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hope you posted this on the beta forum because some really good points have been made, especially the server side UI.
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#3 Aug 16 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
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The game also has a lag spike every time you try and craft something. Usually last about 3 to 5 seconds.


EDIT: Also it is currently impossible to level carpenter without leveling botanist to 25 first because the oak logs needed for low level carpentry is a mid level gather and npcs for some reason don't sell oak logs

Edited, Aug 16th 2010 12:57pm by RogueSyren
#4 Aug 16 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
For example, Pugilist A gets 1,000 EXP worth of hits in, Pugilist B gets 1,500 EXP worth of hits in, and Thaumaturge A gets 500 EXP worth of hits in. Once that fight is over all 3 characters would split the total of 2,000 EXP evenly umongts themselves.


Just felt the need to point out:
1000 + 1500 + 500 = 3000 EXP

OT: Yeah, server side UI is pretty lame. If it is really bad I may need to invest in a new wireless router :x
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#5 Aug 16 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
- UI needs to be held client side. Currently I am told that the UI is all held server side. What's this mean? It means every time you want to interact with your UI it has to feed to the server and then back to you. Now I wasn't a strong believer in this as being a major flaw, in fact I thought it was nice to have that stuff server side to avoid 3rd party garbage. However, after experiencing it first hand, the UI lag is nearly unbearable. It can take 1-3 seconds for your UI to update, and sometimes longer during specific actions.


This is absolutely unacceptable for RTM. I suspect, however, that this function was implemented specifically for the beta process to help monitor/test, etc.

I'm not currently in the beta, but I can understand why the developers may want to analyze UI interface data.
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#6 Aug 16 2010 at 10:58 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree with most of these, except that I don't think the non-optimisation of the mouse is really a pressing concern. Though, I've never enjoyed using a mouse to game outside of RTS and FPS so I may be biased when it comes to this. But really, with keyboard and gamepad as both very suitable options, why does there need to be great mouse support. Simply so people who are used to using a mouse in other MMO's have an easier time settling in? /rant

Other than that I strongly agree with each of your points.
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#7 Aug 16 2010 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
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rofl. sorry about the stupid math, it's early ._.
#8 Aug 16 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I agree with most of these, except that I don't think the non-optimisation of the mouse is really a pressing concern. Though, I've never enjoyed using a mouse to game outside of RTS and FPS so I may be biased when it comes to this. But really, with keyboard and gamepad as both very suitable options, why does there need to be great mouse support. Simply so people who are used to using a mouse in other MMO's have an easier time settling in? /rant

Other than that I strongly agree with each of your points.


The reason this is important is to make the game a success for those who like mouse and keyboard. Thus having more people in the game, providing more cash to SE, to provide us with more content. It's an easy fix for a lot of good things to come of it.
#9 Aug 16 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
why does there need to be great mouse support. Simply so people who are used to using a mouse in other MMO's have an easier time settling in? /rant


I used mouse fairly heavily in FFXI. I would like to do so again. the mouse delivers a far superior capability for camera rotation/viewing angles compared to a keyboard.
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#10 Aug 16 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
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I want to start out and say this is an EXCELLENT post. Thank you for writing it up and sharing what you've QA'ed.

Quote:
- Casters and healers need more love. Currently casters and healers in general will level slower. This is more true when it comes to grouping up with others. The reason for this is that skill ups for your class occur (or can occur) every time you attack the enemy. This leaves pure healers and casters who get less attacks in in general to get far less EXP per mob.


I want to be a main Conjurer and support folks. If leveling EXP is a hinder for casters and healers, I will just this class as a secondary or third. I'm sure many people are with us, just getting less EXP is a pain.

#11 Aug 16 2010 at 11:33 AM Rating: Default
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It would be absolutely absurd to not have functioning mouse control in a PC game.

Not being able to change the keyboard controls is another thing that needs to change. If I want to use the arrow keys to move my character, then I should be able to do so. If I want to map any action to any key, I should be able to do so. These are basic PC MMO standards that every single game is expected to have.

Silly things like that make people quit games after 2 days, and are really inexcusable.
#12 Aug 16 2010 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent
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CombatHarry wrote:

- CPU and GFX card optimization. The game is going to be launched on PC only first. While I agree the PC should not have that much (if any) advantage over the PS3 users in terms of usability and playability, PC users not being able to use their full PC's power is unacceptable. This has nothing to do with how the UI works, or how the character controls are managed, this simply means that if my CPU has 8 cores, I expect to be able to use all 8 when running this game (which it currently does not support), Likewise I have heard that SLI gfx cards are also not supported yet.


If you've done QA for a living you should know all too well this is something that happens over time, especially in this generation of gaming. In Alphas and beta, Core/GPU utilization is wonky at best. In late betas it usually pushes hardware the hardest till they hit the middle ground.

If my PC had 20 cores if the game isn't optimized to use all of them to spread the work load it will then spread the load through the first handful of cores till there's no more work load to be distributed which leaves a great deal untouched. Like now with my 6 core PC it used 3 to the fullest and 1 at barely half power.


Quote:

- No hardware mouse. I've played WoW since release, and I have played FFXI since release (still have active accounts on both). Currently I beta test FFXIV with a game pad so technically this doesn't effect me at all, and personally I can live with or without mouse support in general. However, looking at the bigger picture and wanting this game to grow to epic proportions, the implementation of hardware mouse needs to happen. Currently mouse control is near unplayable, especially if you come from a game like WoW.

- UI needs to be held client side. Currently I am told that the UI is all held server side. What's this mean? It means every time you want to interact with your UI it has to feed to the server and then back to you. Now I wasn't a strong believer in this as being a major flaw, in fact I thought it was nice to have that stuff server side to avoid 3rd party garbage. However, after experiencing it first hand, the UI lag is nearly unbearable. It can take 1-3 seconds for your UI to update, and sometimes longer during specific actions.


Software > Hardware in early builds of a game for testing purposes. Alpha PC games don't get Hardware mouse and only sometimes in beta does the hardware mouse be integrated. Remember this game is still a work in progress..it's still in beta, simple things like that are known to exist in every PC game known to man (including FFXI, which is the same development team's baby) it will be present in XIV. As a QA yourself you should have be able to spot that they're only focusing us on certain aspects at a time.

UI wise, In early builds of online games everything is held server side so they can see how players utilize certain things during testing. Things like these are optimization tweaks that come later when they get the core mechanics set and stabilized.

Everything after this is tweaks and balancing that comes when it comes. It's nothing that will follow into the retail release because I can guarantee if you play a game that's set to be released in 2014 you'll only be playing barebones of what's been completed at this point.


Quote:
Clarify how class changes will work. Currently you can change classes at any time, just swap your weapon(s). However, you cannot change your stats when ever you want. In fact thus far you cannot change all of your stats ever to my knowledge. The most you can change seems to be 15-20% of your stats every 2~ hours. This means if you want to level say Gladiator and Thaumaturge side by side, you will have to gimp one of them on stats. Now I'm not sure if this is just for Beta or what, but there needs to be away to change all of your stats at some point so you can swap jobs and not be gimped completely on stats. For those who need an example of why this is a problem: You level Gladiator to level cap, and you have been dumping attribute points into Strength, Dex, Vit and Piety. Now you decide you want to level Thaumaturge to get some spells to use on your Gladiator. You're SOL because you can only move over 20% of your total attributed points to the stats that matter for Thaumaturge. Hello, i'm a Tank speced Thaumaturge..... Problem.


You figured it out, though. You want spells for your Gladiator but you don't want to realistically play the mage jobs like someone who wants to BE a mage would. Why should someone who just hops onto it for a few level be as powerful if not MORE powerful than someone who plans to take it all the way? That would make no sense in terms of balance, because I could then dump over 100s of points into MND/INT/PIE and be the most powerful rank 1 conjurer compared to an equally powerful (stat wise) rank 37 Conjurer. Stuff like ranging and etc are all under optimization, which generally happens later in production cycle or over time in MMOs, even people's precious (insert MMO) had tweaks done to it long after release.

I think people are just overly critical and too excited that they forget things are still works in progress and while beta generally are clean up periods..they're also still a phase of development that differs from the final build. Though it's understandable with how a lot of companies betas end up being their final build but have anyone ever truly seen a Beta build of a Final Fantasy before? The most infamous builds are FFV, FFVII, FFIX, FFX and FFXIII, then compare them to their final build.

A lot of this stuff tend to be just tweaks and optimization, nothing that tends to follow in the final build of the game. Like FFXI for example, the JP beta was messy but on release it was quite different. SE's mistake was allowing players to play an Alpha build and early beta builds when most people in this day and age are used to demos being labled as betas.
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#13 Aug 16 2010 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
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From what I understand, breaking a game into more threads is NOT something that happens over time. FFXIV appears to be running mainly in 2 threads (thus using mainly only 2 cores), and that is not something that can just be changed over time easily...it is a basic design choice at the beginning of developement and dependant on the game engine.
#14 Aug 16 2010 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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@ Theonehio because it's too much to quote ha.

I'm aware that many of these changes should be fixed and changed before launch. I'm just here to simply point out the obvious to those who are not in the beta, and those who are wondering why people are complaining, this is why. It's great though that you mention that these most certainly will be fixed, and give great examples as to why they are as they are. I should have done that as well. Thanks for helping the thread out =D

As far as the stats go though, I tend to disagree and agree at the same time. While I agree a person who is most focused on a caster class should be better at it, it shouldn't gimp a person who wants to play any class regardless. If I want to level my Thaum to cap and my Gladiator to cap I shouldn't have to sacrifice one or the other in terms of stats. This especially comes into play when you take into consideration that SE is charging for additional character slots. This means if these core base stats are important as players are making them out to be, then people will be forced to buy multiple character slots for multiple jobs. This also means players would have to level the same jobs many many times.

Basically as the system works now, unless you plan to play 1 specific type of character class the entire game (which goes against everything that SE has been promising with the job system), most people will be better off just evenly distributing their skill points each level. This basically makes the "freedom to level the way you want to" that SE wants to dearly in this game to be obsolete. I certainly know I for one plan to play all the classes and attempt to cap all of them. There for if the system stands as it is now, I would just put all my stats evenly just so I won't be too harshly gimped on any given class I choose to bring out for the day.

This again is ASSUMING that these core stats play as large a role as they did in FFXI which I have my doubts about. This is why I would like SE to at least clarify these things to the testers so they/we can stop complaining about possible non-issues.

#15 Aug 16 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
A lot of this stuff tend to be just tweaks and optimization, nothing that tends to follow in the final build of the game. Like FFXI for example, the JP beta was messy but on release it was quite different. SE's mistake was allowing players to play an Alpha build and early beta builds when most people in this day and age are used to demos being labled as betas.


I also wanted to note on this, you are absolutely spot on.

Too many people expect the beta and alpha to be demos of the game, they are not. Also SE is notorious for having insanely dramatic changes within their betas before launches, so people need to hold back on making rash decisions till the game is released. If you need proof, simply look at the overhaul that the combat system took between alpha and beta. (I say overhaul, though I hear they just built 2 combat systems from the beginning)
#16 Aug 16 2010 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the post. Surely you have sent a similar list to SE?

I've been wondering about the stats and changing classes quite abit. Looks like something needs to be done to allow for people to level separate classes in parallel.

Did you get to change another 20% of the stats each time you level?
#17 Aug 16 2010 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Thanks for the post. Surely you have sent a similar list to SE?

I've been wondering about the stats and changing classes quite abit. Looks like something needs to be done to allow for people to level separate classes in parallel.

Did you get to change another 20% of the stats each time you level?


basically how it seems to work is this:

If I have allocated say 100 points of stats to my character. If I hit the "Reassign" button It gives me back roughly 20% of those (so 20) stat points to reallocated. I've actually had the function give back different numbers for the same level, which leaves me to believe it's just not even working as intended.
#18StreakSRM1, Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 12:26 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I just got in the beta yesterday and echo everything the OP said. The UI is absolutely archaic. This was barely excusable in 2002 when FFXI came out, and only thing because it was developed for the ps2 first. I loved FFXI and was willing to wade through the UI to play it (played with a ps2 pad). However, it's 8 years later now. Why can't I bind keys to do what I want? This is incredibly frustrating as there seems to be no keybind to open the main menu, you have to use the software mouse to open it. At first I thought the complaints about the software mouse were blown out of proportion, I can assure you it's not. The mouse has input lag on everything you do. Why do I have to click 4 or 5 times just to sell one item? Just like FFXI, there's a good game underneath, I'm just not sure it's worth the effort anymore.
#19 Aug 16 2010 at 12:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
As to the, "It's still a beta" response, the game is going live in under 5 weeks. Which means it has to go gold very soon to start shipping everything. I have severe doubts that the UI is going to get the overhaul it needs before then. There are a thousand + posts begging SE to do something about these UI issues, it just seems they don't care. SE is going to lose a lot of potential subscribers if it goes live like this.


I can't remember ever playing a MMO that didn't also have a huge update to download along with the installation disks at launch. So even if they have to go gold they have until the very day of release to develop and fix things :) I'm not too worried about it.
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#20 Aug 16 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
As to the, "It's still a beta" response, the game is going live in under 5 weeks. Which means it has to go gold very soon to start shipping everything. I have severe doubts that the UI is going to get the overhaul it needs before then. There are a thousand + posts begging SE to do something about these UI issues, it just seems they don't care. SE is going to lose a lot of potential subscribers if it goes live like this.


I wouldn't stress just yet. Wait for another phase or two to start worrying. Normally I would be worrying right beside ya, but Square works really weird when it comes to betas and pre-releases. Thus far ever phase has has ridiculously dramatic changes for this late of a stage.
#21 Aug 16 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I can't remember ever playing a MMO that didn't also have a huge update to download along with the installation disks at launch. So even if they have to go gold they have until the very day of release to develop and fix things :) I'm not too worried about it.


Another excellent point.
#22 Aug 16 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd like to point out that Phase 3 saw a total revamp in how the mouse works with the camera. For those coming into Beta on Phase 3 and didn't experience it in Phase 2, they have no idea how good they have it. The mouse was, very literally, useless prior to Phase 3. Camera movement was "throttled" via software and you were forced to use the keyboard for camera panning if you didn't have a gamepad.

Also, Gamepad users can remap their keys, whereas keyboard users cannot in Beta. Also, UI speed was tweaked with Phase 3 as well...so again, those experience Phase 3 as their first beta phase won't have anything to "compare" the improvement to. Windows and Menus are probably about 40-50% faster than they were in Phase 2. Overall, they're moving in the right direction with UI & Control based issues, I really wouldn't worry about anything regarding those elements of the game.
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#23 Aug 16 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
- Clarify how class changes will work. Currently you can change classes at any time, just swap your weapon(s). However, you cannot change your stats when ever you want. In fact thus far you cannot change all of your stats ever to my knowledge. The most you can change seems to be 15-20% of your stats every 2~ hours. This means if you want to level say Gladiator and Thaumaturge side by side, you will have to gimp one of them on stats. Now I'm not sure if this is just for Beta or what, but there needs to be away to change all of your stats at some point so you can swap jobs and not be gimped completely on stats. For those who need an example of why this is a problem: You level Gladiator to level cap, and you have been dumping attribute points into Strength, Dex, Vit and Piety. Now you decide you want to level Thaumaturge to get some spells to use on your Gladiator. You're SOL because you can only move over 20% of your total attributed points to the stats that matter for Thaumaturge. Hello, i'm a Tank speced Thaumaturge..... Problem.


Disclaimer: This is purely a hypothetical and the numbers used have no basis in reality.

I was just thinking about this a bit. I'm trying to grasp exactly what you mean... so let me run through an example. Let's say you start with 100 along all stats

StatA: 100
StatB: 100
StatC: 100

Through leveling 10 levels, let's say that you distribute your stats such that:

StatA: 150
StatB: 200
StatC: 250

Now, if I'm reading this right, you click reassign and you get to reassign approx 20% of your acquired stats, correct? In this example, you gained 250 stat points over the 10 levels, so you would get to reassign approximately 50 of these stat points (20%) to different value.

Unused: 50
StatA: 134
StatB: 183
StatC: 233

Reassign-->
StatA: 134 + 50 = 184
StatB: 183
StatC: 233

Now, in 2 hours, you can reassign again? At which point, you'd still have 250 stat points, you would get to reassign 50 again.

Unused:50
StatA: 168
StatB: 166
StatC: 216

Reassign-->
StatA: 168 + 50 = 218
StatB: 166
StatC: 216

Okay, so I may be misunderstanding how this works, but that would result in you eventually being able to redistribute all of your stats as you see fit, just with a delay.

Now you did mention that you are gimped if you want to level these two classes side by side. I do agree with you, even with this hypothetical, that you would be gimped leveling the two side by side. It seems like the idea here is that you've got to give your character momentum within one practice/direction to gain true proficiency. Whether this is a good thing or not is up to you. I have no real opinion as I haven't played... nor do I even know if my analysis is accurate. Let me know what you think...

Edit: has --> have

Edited, Aug 16th 2010 3:22pm by sourmilk
#24 Aug 16 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Do the regional levequests really have a 48 hour cooldown? If I want to level my main class is my only option to grind on mobs if I can't accept any more levequests?
#25 Aug 16 2010 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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The answer to that is this: group with people who do have levequests to do. You get a small reward for helping them and their reward increases the more people they do it with. Its win/win.
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#26 Aug 16 2010 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The answer to that is this: group with people who do have levequests to do. You get a small reward for helping them and their reward increases the more people they do it with. Its win/win.


The current problem though is that the incentive to work with others is not enough. Very rarely will someone invite you to a leve group if you don't have any leve's to add to the group.
#27 Aug 16 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Get invites all the time on Kefka. That's how I joined my first two linkshells :D Super friendly people here. And I make sure to invite anyone who's around to do leves when I have them too.
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#28 Aug 16 2010 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Get invites all the time on Kefka. That's how I joined my first two linkshells :D Super friendly people here. And I make sure to invite anyone who's around to do leves when I have them too.


**** you got a nice group of people ._. Everyone on my server is all about solo'ing and crafting at the moment. Either way I hope they give more incentive for group play that they already have implemented. Maybe incentive for longer term group play too, similar to old grinding groups in FFXI (not as a mandatory thing, but for those who like it, it should be an option).
#29 Aug 16 2010 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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What server are you on? I'll create a character there and do stuff with you if you'd like. 90% of my friends on Kefka I met while teaching people how to fish. Have you tried that method?
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#30 Aug 16 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Another issue in phase 3, which may or may not be resolved in release, is the lack of an auction house. Selling and buying items is currently a total pain, as the only way is to load up a retainer and drop them in a market zone. If you're looking for something specific, you're totally out of luck.

On top of that I frequently R0 in the market every time one of those server side UI menus needs to come up. (this game is incredibly menu heavy currently) It adds a delay of several minutes when checking each retainer - you can imagine how long it'd take to find something specific when you have to look through 20-30 retainers at 2-3 minutes a pop, and you're not even guaranteed someone will have it for sale. Interacting with your own retainer is just as bad, as you have to navigate through 3-4 windows to put an item up for sale. Maybe it was a temporary issue, but I only experienced in the market zone. This game REALLY needs an auction house either way.

Also, the stat allocation just doesn't make sense in a game where one character is meant to be able to play all the classes. Even if they fix the reassignment issue it's still going to be a pain to reset them all one by one (and if you can do that, what's the point of having them in the first place?). I don't understand why they separated physical level from class level, as all physical level seems to impact right now are your stats - and they seem to scale down based on your class level anyway. Overly complicated and unnecessary in my opinion, but I know they aren't going to change that core game mechanic before release.
#31 Aug 16 2010 at 5:54 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I'd really like to see the XP distribution issue addressed. It's really discouraging to support classes to give them -LESS- XP, just because they aren't attacking the mob.

Picture what XI would have been like if WHM, RDM, SCH, etc -had- to attack or affect the mob in order to get XP. Some healers have enough work keeping people alive as it is, never mind anything more elaborate than paralyze/dia.
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#32 Aug 16 2010 at 10:08 PM Rating: Decent
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That issue concerning casters/support classes makes me frown...

It almost sounds like they are encouraging you not to work as support or heal other party members.
#33 Aug 16 2010 at 10:29 PM Rating: Decent
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I noticed something today.

Turn down your graphics settings and the game runs infinitely faster. I had maxed settings and when fishing / mining / whatever, that moving timer would always take about a half second to stop after I hit a button.

I went to the options and turned down the settings just to see the difference, and everything works great. The lower graphics problems don't bother me one bit. Why? Watch the alpha > beta youtube video. Alpha looked hideous :/
#34 Aug 16 2010 at 10:49 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
the mouse delivers a far superior capability for camera rotation/viewing angles compared to a keyboard.
no
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Do the regional levequests really have a 48 hour cooldown? If I want to level my main class is my only option to grind on mobs if I can't accept any more levequests?
yeah, but they decreased the levequest rewards to the point where it isn't much different than just grinding w/e. On the plus side if you ignore levequests you can fight whatever mobs you want without having to run around which makes it a much faster option to level atm.
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#35 Aug 17 2010 at 12:22 AM Rating: Decent
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One thing said in this thread is NOT true. Casters do gain experience when using spells, however, it will not proc 100% of the time. Every few casts will net u experience towards ur class.
#36 Aug 17 2010 at 12:40 AM Rating: Decent
34 posts
Most information are kept at server side to prevent people from hacking the game, as for UI, if it is really at the server side as you say, as long it doesnt affect gameplay even if the datas got hack, i agreed that it should be on client side, but if it does affect gameplay supposing it got hacked, then it is still better to be kept at server side for fare-play all the time.
#37 Aug 17 2010 at 12:43 AM Rating: Decent
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CombatHarry wrote:
Quote:
The answer to that is this: group with people who do have levequests to do. You get a small reward for helping them and their reward increases the more people they do it with. Its win/win.


The current problem though is that the incentive to work with others is not enough. Very rarely will someone invite you to a leve group if you don't have any leve's to add to the group.

I'm pretty sure that SE will iron out all the issues sooner or later.

This point worries me the most.
Whatever happens with FFXIV i don't want to see it turned into a solo fest. I've experienced this with AoC which was pretty much played by everyone as a single player RPG which happened to have a build in shoutbox. Simply because there was hardly any incentive to group until the end game raids, and solo play was usually more rewarding exp/hour wise. At least this was after launch don't know how AoC is now as i didn't had the motivation or patience to play a single player MMORPG for longer then 5 months.

FFXI might be a bit on the extreme when it comes to group play. But at least players were grouping all the time and think that is the main reason that made the FFXI community to grow out to be a big and tight community.
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#38 Aug 17 2010 at 12:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Disclaimer: This is purely a hypothetical and the numbers used have no basis in reality.

I was just thinking about this a bit. I'm trying to grasp exactly what you mean... so let me run through an example. Let's say you start with 100 along all stats

StatA: 100
StatB: 100
StatC: 100

Through leveling 10 levels, let's say that you distribute your stats such that:

StatA: 150
StatB: 200
StatC: 250

Now, if I'm reading this right, you click reassign and you get to reassign approx 20% of your acquired stats, correct? In this example, you gained 250 stat points over the 10 levels, so you would get to reassign approximately 50 of these stat points (20%) to different value.

Unused: 50
StatA: 134
StatB: 183
StatC: 233

Reassign-->
StatA: 134 + 50 = 184
StatB: 183
StatC: 233

Now, in 2 hours, you can reassign again? At which point, you'd still have 250 stat points, you would get to reassign 50 again.

Unused:50
StatA: 168
StatB: 166
StatC: 216

Reassign-->
StatA: 168 + 50 = 218
StatB: 166
StatC: 216

Okay, so I may be misunderstanding how this works, but that would result in you eventually being able to redistribute all of your stats as you see fit, just with a delay.

Now you did mention that you are gimped if you want to level these two classes side by side. I do agree with you, even with this hypothetical, that you would be gimped leveling the two side by side. It seems like the idea here is that you've got to give your character momentum within one practice/direction to gain true proficiency. Whether this is a good thing or not is up to you. I have no real opinion as I haven't played... nor do I even know if my analysis is accurate. Let me know what you think...


If that were the case and you could only reassign a certain percentage of your stats every two hours I would assume that they would implement something that would allow you to reassign them all, like in your moghouse or some other NPC. I believe it's a good system though, being able to switch out all your stats in the field would cause some problems wouldn't it? What this does, I think, is allow you to switch to a different class for emergencies. Like a healer disconnecting and not coming back so someone can switch to one, be it slightly gimp, to keep the group going or something.
#39 Aug 17 2010 at 12:54 AM Rating: Good
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StreakSRM1 wrote:
I just got in the beta yesterday and echo everything the OP said. The UI is absolutely archaic. This was barely excusable in 2002 when FFXI came out, and only thing because it was developed for the ps2 first. I loved FFXI and was willing to wade through the UI to play it (played with a ps2 pad). However, it's 8 years later now. Why can't I bind keys to do what I want? This is incredibly frustrating as there seems to be no keybind to open the main menu, you have to use the software mouse to open it. At first I thought the complaints about the software mouse were blown out of proportion, I can assure you it's not. The mouse has input lag on everything you do. Why do I have to click 4 or 5 times just to sell one item? Just like FFXI, there's a good game underneath, I'm just not sure it's worth the effort anymore.

As to the, "It's still a beta" response, the game is going live in under 5 weeks. Which means it has to go gold very soon to start shipping everything. I have severe doubts that the UI is going to get the overhaul it needs before then. There are a thousand + posts begging SE to do something about these UI issues, it just seems they don't care. SE is going to lose a lot of potential subscribers if it goes live like this.

I'm playing the beta on my old ps2 pad again, but I won't be buying the full game if they don't do something about the UI.


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