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new information from a interview talks about AH, 48 hour cooFollow

#1 Aug 18 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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Interview taken from FF14 core


"Exclusive Final Fantasy XIV Interview with Square Enix

Today I interviewed Hiromichi Tanaka, the producer of Final Fantasy XIV, Nobuaki Komoto the Director of Final Fantasy XIV and Sage Sundi the Global Online Producer.

It was a quite enjoyable interview, thanks to everyone that made it possible, I'm also looking at you Stanley!


Are we going to see tutorials and gametips being added for the new players to assist them better?

We do have a tutorial ingame but we understand that it's not enough, so we will improve it. We hope you're going to find out through the storyline to find out what's going on and how to use things. Also when you reach a certain level we hope you get into towns to talk to other players. Also at the beginning us game developers usually provide the basic information but fansites always make better guides regardless. So it might be difficult for the time of the launch but we're going to try to talk to fansites so they'll post detailed information regarding on how the game works.


Regarding auctionhouses:

Regarding Final Fantasy XIV and the market battle system is something we would like to consider the equilevent to the auction house we had in Final Fantasy XI. Only that you'll also be able to fix your equipment and things like that. It is something we really want people to enjoy. Also after the release of the game we will see how it goes and for example find out what kind of search options players will want and need and improve the situation. We don't really want to introduce the auctionhouse from the beginning because that is going to determine the economy system. So we want to improve it slowly and adjust it accordingly.


When do we get to see the PS3 version and when is the PS3 beta?

Even when we're here at Gamescom in Germany the development team back in Japan is working on the Playstation 3 version. Probably this week or very soon we're having an internal meeting to discuss the revealing of the Playstation 3 version status of Final Fantasy XIV. So as soon we're comfortable with announcing more information about this we will do it.


Will endgame be in the game on release?

Factionleves is something that we're trying to implement at the moment. And you might soon see some part of it in the beta test that is going on at the moment. It is something you can acquire by collecting action points in the game and by doing Levequests. We are going to add more and more of this type of leve in the game to make it quite challenging. As for the launch however we want to make sure that the game is easy and accessable for casual players. Throughout version updates we're going to introduce more hardcore content so even both casual and hardcore players alike will enjoy the game.


Will we get any sort of mana regeneration abilities and/or items?

We're still working on this so we will make some small updates and improvements in the future, but at the same time we think managing mana should be difficult and a challenge to the players.


Concerning the current UI, there is a noticeable lag between changing menu's and interaction between players and NPC's. Can we look forward to a revamp of the UI prior to release?

We're currently in phase three of our beta test and you're going to see several improvements being made to this. we're working on it, please look forward to how it's going to be in the final product. These issues are also because of some bugs we know about which we're going to fix.


Concerning the mouse function. There is an obviously lag currently even with the improvements towards the mouse; in particular it seems that the software mouse speed is tied to the FPS on your computer -- so if you have less FPS, then the mouse is laggier. Can we expect an implementation of hardware mouse prior to release?

We're aware of it and hardware mouse is something we're still looking into currently. At the moment we dont have any plans for the hardware mouse but will continue to improve the situation before the game is out and also after.


Concerning the direction of this game; is Guildleve's the standard to level in regards to FFXIV? It was heavily advertised in several locations and there seems to be an overall disgruntled feeling towards its 48 hour cooldown. Is this part of the limit implemented for the beta, or is this intention for the release? Is straight-mob grinding going to the primary source of experience gains for FFXIV?

One of the reasons for the current design is that it's fine if you're playing solo. If you have more time however, we feel that there's a lot of guildleves to experience with other people in groups, while yourself might not have the guildleve, you can still join other peoples guildleves. Currently though most feel there's not enough benefit to group up and as such do the guildleves solo instead. We are working on adressing that so group play will be more encouraged, so maybe either you get more skillpoints for example. Basically we're trying to adjust it so that people do guildleves with other people.


But the 48 hours cooldown is going to stay?

Yes that is the current plan. In the future we might adjust it but we want to make it in such a way that the 48 hours cooldown makes sense, so currently we're focusing on adjusting it in that way.


There is a mixed feeling in regards to computer requirements on the game. Despite the minimum requirements listed, players are having a hard time running this game even on fairly decent rigs. Is the game expected to go through further optimization prior to release?

For the betaversion it might be because we have several check routines in the game that might be causing some of the performance-related issues. This should be improved when the game is released. It also could be something specific to the persons PC setup. THere's a lot of different graphics cards among other things so we're trying to solve it one by one.

Finally, the Square Enix team would like to say that they really appreciate the support from fans in the western region and want everyone to enjoy Final Fantasy XIV as it's going gold."

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#2 Aug 18 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Default
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Sounds like the beta we are playing (other than the addition of some content) is about what we can expect at retail release.
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#3 Aug 18 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
Sounds like the beta we are playing (other than the addition of some content) is about what we can expect at retail release.


Just click your heels together and say "It's just beta!" and the ruby slippers will fix everything before release.
#4 Aug 18 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Default
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KarlHungis the Prohpet wrote:
UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
Sounds like the beta we are playing (other than the addition of some content) is about what we can expect at retail release.


Just click your heels together and say "It's just beta!" and the ruby slippers will fix everything before release.

If i had the ability to rate you up I would lol.
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#5 Aug 18 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
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****. A 48 hr. cooldown is WAY too much, I don't care what SE says. Plus, why would I want to do a guildleve someone else is doing, then have to do it again for myself in 48 hrs? It doesn't make much sense. I expected everything else to be said though, they're preaching the same thing most of us are:

"It's a beta, chill the **** out, the game release will be smoother and much better to play"

In the end though, I truly do have faith in SE. They know what they're doing.
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#6 Aug 18 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just an observation on the leves.

If I'm understanding this correctly, you can do nigh-unlimited leves in groups by sharing them. Only the original person gets the big gil bonus at the end, but you all get to use your Guardian's Favor to speed-level while in groups, right?

I think that that will encourage game play, especially once they tweak the exp/skill point gain ratios.

And a solo player can still level (right?), they just can only do a certain number of leves. That's not too bad, really. It's slower, you get fewer rewards, but the option is still there. I'm pretty ok with that.

What I WOULD like to see is a sliding scale on the leves. Say you get 8 every 48 hours solo. But you can get 16 for a difficulty 2. And 32 for a difficulty 3. Keep adding 8 for each difficulty. That means that if you WANT to do leves, you'll need to group eventually. You can do the same one alone, but the reward is less and you can only do a few.

I might be misunderstanding the concept, but I think that would work pretty darn well.


Thanks for the info, OP, lots of goodies in there.
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#7 Aug 18 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
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KarlHungis the Prohpet wrote:
UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
Sounds like the beta we are playing (other than the addition of some content) is about what we can expect at retail release.


Just click your heels together and say "It's just beta!" and the ruby slippers will fix everything before release.


LMAO
I am a little disappointed in not having an AH in the game at launch..
and does anyone know what the battle market system is or is that just fancy talk for bazaars?
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#8Commander Aveline, Posted: Aug 18 2010 at 1:15 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If I ever hear those three words again, it will be too soon. :3
#9 Aug 18 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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I am pretty disappointed they pushed guildleves as such a core gameplay feature, only to see that we're limited to doing them for a couple hours every other day.

I wouldn't mind seeing them put a cap on leves at a particular camp, or on the same class, but 8 total every 2 days is lame.
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#10 Aug 18 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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I kind of want to be annoyed @ the 48hr cooldown, but I'll 1st need to get in there and see it for myself, compared to grouping up for leves and basic exp grinding.

Quote:
As for the launch however we want to make sure that the game is easy and accessable for casual players. Throughout version updates we're going to introduce more hardcore content so even both casual and hardcore players alike will enjoy the game.


This also bothers me, but again I'll have to actually see it first. I wonder what his definition of "easy" is there. And how quickly some of that hardcore content will come into play...

#11 Aug 18 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I wouldn't mind the lack of AH if there were a good retainer search feature, then the AH wouldn't be needed.

If you have to go to each retainer individually, that's terrible.
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#12 Aug 18 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Good
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This is going to be a different game than XI, because it IS a different game than XI, and people are going to have to "paradigm shift" and realize that.
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#13 Aug 18 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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48hr cooldown is not the issue here. I don't doubt for a second that SE wouldn't fix the REAL problem within the system before release.


I'll still wait at least half a year before I play this game though. Paid beta testing is not something I'm a fan of.
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#14 Aug 18 2010 at 1:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Oenos wrote:
This is going to be a different game than XI, because it IS a different game than XI, and people are going to have to "paradigm shift" and realize that.



It is surely going to be a different game but I am not sure who they want to actually play this game. Playing it right now is kind of frustrating. Its like going on a blind date with a beautiful woman that has a terrible personality or like a beautiful sports car with a gocart motor in it. I hope they dont alienate almost everyone who tries it. I dont want to play the game alone : (
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#15 Aug 18 2010 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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I think the most positive thing to get out of this, is that SE knows what the 'problems' and concerns are and they had a substantive answer for each one.

I would like an AH and think that a 'Retainer' system is iffy. However I'm glad they are looking to do something a bit different.

Once the game goes live and we're still in "beta," I'm sure there'll be a lot more things to fix and tweak, but that's just the nature of a socially driven game and MMOs in general.
#16 Aug 18 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Just an observation on the leves.

If I'm understanding this correctly, you can do nigh-unlimited leves in groups by sharing them. Only the original person gets the big gil bonus at the end, but you all get to use your Guardian's Favor to speed-level while in groups, right?



You don't get enough guardian's favor even to do all of your own leves, so while the answer is that yes, you can use it while doing other people's leves, that's not really a perk.

Also, keep in mind that in order to do the "nigh unlimited" leves in groups, the rest of the group has to deliberately not take any leves in the first place, then they have to group with some one who has leves, then once those are completed, some one has to travel back to town, take leves, then come back to the camp. That's a LOT of waiting around for people to go back and forth, and it assumes that you've all coordinated who will take leves first. There are a lot of practical issues with trying to maximize leves this way, which is why virtually no one does it.

What S-E apparently thinks people are going to do is invite people who have finished their own leves to help with the player's leves. Unfortunately there's no real benefit to inviting other people to help you, since they just cut into your XP for the most part. The most beneficial way to play is to solo all of your own leves and then find some sucker who will let you group for his.
Quote:


I think that that will encourage game play, especially once they tweak the exp/skill point gain ratios.

And a solo player can still level (right?), they just can only do a certain number of leves. That's not too bad, really. It's slower, you get fewer rewards, but the option is still there. I'm pretty ok with that.


Yes, most of the game right now looks like it's going to be solo/small group grinding.
#18 Aug 18 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
Oenos wrote:
This is going to be a different game than XI, because it IS a different game than XI, and people are going to have to "paradigm shift" and realize that.



It is surely going to be a different game but I am not sure who they want to actually play this game. Playing it right now is kind of frustrating. Its like going on a blind date with a beautiful woman that has a terrible personality or like a beautiful sports car with a gocart motor in it. I hope they dont alienate almost everyone who tries it. I dont want to play the game alone : (


So what you're trying to say is this game is like the Avatar movie?
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#19 Aug 18 2010 at 1:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't mind the 48 hour cool down if they can fix guild leve exchange (currently bugged to reset with the 48 hour cool down, which in fact means you only get 2-5 leves for a given thing you want to do) and increase the amount you can do in a given 48 period. Maybe if they doubled the amount of guild leves you can do in 48 hours that would be a good place to start... but 8 regional leves and 8 local leves just flat out doesn't cut it. Especially when there is little else you can do in this game outside of grinding or leves. They better increase the frequency of behest so you can do it more often and give more town quests that don't require a cool down etc.

No AH at the start is really, really disappointing but hopefully they make retainers more useful as a good starting point and work from there. Seriously though... I think the launch will be fine. Most of the issues with beta are due to server and UI lag (at least the most frustrating issues) and it seems they are dedicated to getting rid of most of them either by launch or shortly after it. Hardware mouse is coming at least although disappointing it might not be in at launch) The other issues revolve around balancing gameplay (between classes and doing activities). Stuff that is a lot harder to nail down at the start of an MMO launch but hopefully they find a good middle ground to work with for launch. The one thing I really, really hope they do that is not currently in beta is make guild marks easier to get or at least give method other then Guild Leves to get them. Gear... you can replace with crafter stuff... EXP can be grinded in solo or group efforts, gil can be obtained by selling random items or doing other peoples guild leves... but the marks? You can only currently get them through guild leves and only from select ones too I might add. For something that gives traits to your character, we should have the 'freedom' to 'grow' that part of our character (The idea that they established as the main focus of this game) whenever we feel like it, even if its at a reduced pace compared to the leves.

All together the news is a bit disappointing, but I also think the game will be just fine. Most the real 'problems' with beta have to do with laggyness of the menus and little bugs like not being able to select anything from pulldown menus on a controller or keyboard (Lol mouse controls are better then straight controller and keyboard right now thanks to those bugs).

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 3:44pm by croythegreat
#21 Aug 18 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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edrikthorn wrote:



Look at it this way.....if you get a group of 4 -6 people together to do leves.....you can end up doing 32-48 leves in total in 1 day.....even if you have to go and start 1 leve at a time and repeat each one 8 times, but thats why they made it easier to move around instead of having to walk all the way to your "camp" to kill mobs like in FFXI.

I think it is a really good way to do party XPing.....people just have to give it a chance.


I understand the math of it very well, and on paper it sounds terrific. I already explained though why it doesn't quite work out that way in practice.

The NPC that gives you the leves is nowhere near the spot where you do the leves, and every time you finish one set of leves, some one has to travel back to town to get more leves, then travel back to the group. On top of that, it only works if you coordinate ahead of time. If I grab my 6 leves and you grab your 6 leves and we meet up at Bearded Rock, chances are we've got a lot of the same leves. As soon as we start doing mine, a lot of yours will get completely automatically. Instead of 12 leves we really have more like 7-8, unless one of us never took our leves in town.

This works fine if you're going to do this with a static party, but if you're trying to make it work with strangers, well, how the heck are you going to coordinate that? More importantly, how are you going to ensure that certain people actually stick around long enough to contribute their leves, or know if they already did their leves? Answer is, you don't know any of that. The only way to do it fairly would be to alternate leves, but that means some one has to go back to town after every leve, which is a solid 10+ minutes of downtime.
#22 Aug 18 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Decent
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croythegreat wrote:
Hardware mouse is coming at least although disappointing it might not be in at launch)


Funny, I read the same article you did and got the opposite impression. It doesn't sound like they intend to have a hardware mouse at all.

I read "we're looking into it" as "We're aware that people want this" rather than "we're trying to implement it." I'd be happy to be wrong about that though.

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 3:58pm by KarlHungis
#23 Aug 18 2010 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Look at it this way.....if you get a group of 4 -6 people together to do leves.....you can end up doing 32-48 leves in total in 1 day.....even if you have to go and start 1 leve at a time and repeat each one 8 times, but thats why they made it easier to move around instead of having to walk all the way to your "camp" to kill mobs like in FFXI.

I think it is a really good way to do party XPing.....people just have to give it a chance.


The problem with this is that we are meant to assume that all 4-6 people haven't already completed some of the leves. Secondly Guild Leve exchange is currently tied directly into the 48 hour cool down (It better not be at launch... in the manual it says they rotates every 1-2 hours for exchange). If that isn't fixed then you are only going to have 2-5 leves per person to use for a given camp. Maybe with 2 more cities opening up this will be alleviated somewhat but its still a horrible idea. Lets face it SE put all there hands into guild leves are a marketing tool... completely nerfed it as a full time event and gameplay feature other then situationally and left everything else for the grind. If the guild leves are on 48 cool down then they NEED some other gameplay systems in place other then behest to keep peoples time while they wait for the reset. This is the equivalent of WoW giving out only daily quests for EXP and rewards and shrinking the amount down to 16 quests on a 48 timer and they ask you grind the rest of the stuff in the game with few other quests in between. That game would be a shallow version of itself today if they actually went with such an idea. Horrible, horrible design decision on behalf of the FFXIV team UNLESS they have a LOT more one time quests availible to you as you level that is not currently in beta. Even FFXI had more quest then this game has at launch.

Quote:
Funny, I read the same article you did and got the opposite impression. It doesn't sound like they intend to have a hardware mouse at all.


Yeah I didn't read it right :/ more going off my memory from this morning. I think we will see a hardware mouse in the future though, even FFXI had one so its a befuddling they didn't even think about adding it in.

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 3:59pm by croythegreat
#24 Aug 18 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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KarlHungis the Prohpet wrote:
edrikthorn wrote:



Look at it this way.....if you get a group of 4 -6 people together to do leves.....you can end up doing 32-48 leves in total in 1 day.....even if you have to go and start 1 leve at a time and repeat each one 8 times, but thats why they made it easier to move around instead of having to walk all the way to your "camp" to kill mobs like in FFXI.

I think it is a really good way to do party XPing.....people just have to give it a chance.


I understand the math of it very well, and on paper it sounds terrific. I already explained though why it doesn't quite work out that way in practice.

The NPC that gives you the leves is nowhere near the spot where you do the leves, and every time you finish one set of leves, some one has to travel back to town to get more leves, then travel back to the group. On top of that, it only works if you coordinate ahead of time. If I grab my 6 leves and you grab your 6 leves and we meet up at Bearded Rock, chances are we've got a lot of the same leves. As soon as we start doing mine, a lot of yours will get completely automatically. Instead of 12 leves we really have more like 7-8, unless one of us never took our leves in town.

This works fine if you're going to do this with a static party, but if you're trying to make it work with strangers, well, how the heck are you going to coordinate that? More importantly, how are you going to ensure that certain people actually stick around long enough to contribute their leves, or know if they already did their leves? Answer is, you don't know any of that. The only way to do it fairly would be to alternate leves, but that means some one has to go back to town after every leve, which is a solid 10+ minutes of downtime.


I expect to get screwed over serveral times by people who say they have leves to do and the realize after they have "helped" me with mine that "Oh crap i've already done mine i guess, it wont let me get anymore."
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#25 Aug 18 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Default
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KarlHungis the Prohpet wrote:
croythegreat wrote:
Hardware mouse is coming at least although disappointing it might not be in at launch)


Funny, I read the same article you did and got the opposite impression. It doesn't sound like they intend to have a hardware mouse at all.

I read "we're looking into it" as "We're aware that people want this" rather than "we're trying to implement it." I'd be happy to be wrong about that though.

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 3:58pm by KarlHungis


Concerning the mouse function. There is an obviously lag currently even with the improvements towards the mouse; in particular it seems that the software mouse speed is tied to the FPS on your computer -- so if you have less FPS, then the mouse is laggier. Can we expect an implementation of hardware mouse prior to release?

We're aware of it and hardware mouse is something we're still looking into currently. At the moment we dont have any plans for the hardware mouse but will continue to improve the situation before the game is out and also after.
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#27 Aug 18 2010 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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It sounds like they have gotten so scared of RMTs that they adjusted their whole game to try and prevent them. In the process however, game play still suffers. A hardware mouse will only hurt the cause it seems.
#28 Aug 18 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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edrikthorn wrote:
KarlHungis the Prohpet wrote:
edrikthorn wrote:



Look at it this way.....if you get a group of 4 -6 people together to do leves.....you can end up doing 32-48 leves in total in 1 day.....even if you have to go and start 1 leve at a time and repeat each one 8 times, but thats why they made it easier to move around instead of having to walk all the way to your "camp" to kill mobs like in FFXI.

I think it is a really good way to do party XPing.....people just have to give it a chance.


I understand the math of it very well, and on paper it sounds terrific. I already explained though why it doesn't quite work out that way in practice.

The NPC that gives you the leves is nowhere near the spot where you do the leves, and every time you finish one set of leves, some one has to travel back to town to get more leves, then travel back to the group. On top of that, it only works if you coordinate ahead of time. If I grab my 6 leves and you grab your 6 leves and we meet up at Bearded Rock, chances are we've got a lot of the same leves. As soon as we start doing mine, a lot of yours will get completely automatically. Instead of 12 leves we really have more like 7-8, unless one of us never took our leves in town.

This works fine if you're going to do this with a static party, but if you're trying to make it work with strangers, well, how the heck are you going to coordinate that? More importantly, how are you going to ensure that certain people actually stick around long enough to contribute their leves, or know if they already did their leves? Answer is, you don't know any of that. The only way to do it fairly would be to alternate leves, but that means some one has to go back to town after every leve, which is a solid 10+ minutes of downtime.




Well....you are half right. You can't count on people sticking around....but that happens in every game. The thing about the leves is that ......you have to go pick your leves in town and it does time a few minutes, but thats the whole intention of the creators. So that you have timesinks so that people wont be lvl 50 in 1 week. I say just do all your leves and then if you want to do more just go and help others with their leves......I bet you that the 48 hours will be over before you even notice.


People dont want your "help" with leves if you dont have leves to share with them you are just stealing exp from them by joining them. If you havent gotten to play yet you might not understand this but getting help on a leve cuts your exp gain in half.
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#29 Aug 18 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
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We're still working on this so we will make some small updates and improvements in the future, but at the same time we think managing mana should be difficult and a challenge to the players.


Good for you, I think the players should have a say in this. At least bring back the ability to rest mana, as time consuming as it was it's faster than having to go back to a crystal every 4 battles.
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#30 Aug 18 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
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This whole guild leve bullsht is making me not want to give square enix 50 bucks.
#31 Aug 18 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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KujaKoF wrote:
I am pretty disappointed they pushed guildleves as such a core gameplay feature, only to see that we're limited to doing them for a couple hours every other day.

I wouldn't mind seeing them put a cap on leves at a particular camp, or on the same class, but 8 total every 2 days is lame.


I am also disappointed guildleves are so limited. Specifically because they pushed them as a major part of play, the only source of quests so far... and are allowing us to play so few.

KarlHungis the Prohpet wrote:
What S-E apparently thinks people are going to do is invite people who have finished their own leves to help with the player's leves. Unfortunately there's no real benefit to inviting other people to help you, since they just cut into your XP for the most part. The most beneficial way to play is to solo all of your own leves and then find some sucker who will let you group for his.


Partying with others doesn't cut into your XP as far as I can tell. Monster's don't "drop" a total number of xp for everyone to split, If I do a leve alone on 5 star I get 2000 per mob, If I do it with my husband on 5 star I get 2000 per mob, except it's easier. Granted I shouldn't be able to do a 5 star alone, THAT needs balancing. I can't sit and leech though, and my Blacksmith doing 1pt of damage 3 times in the battle didn't count either, so square does use some criteria for if you deserve to get rewarded for the monsters death.

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 4:22pm by Tweezle120
#34 Aug 18 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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GuardianFaith wrote:
Quote:
We're still working on this so we will make some small updates and improvements in the future, but at the same time we think managing mana should be difficult and a challenge to the players.


Good for you, I think the players should have a say in this. At least bring back the ability to rest mana, as time consuming as it was it's faster than having to go back to a crystal every 4 battles.


"Tired of running back & forth to aetherytes? Want to join your LS mates on their upcoming adventure far away from Gridania but worried about your MP? No need to worry, just call upon Twisted Owl, your travelling juice vendor! Making daily runs through the sweet far-away camping spots! If that's not enough, have the party all chip in and hire him for the entire run!"

I'm slightly inspired to be a cook again by this...if only I could set a trading route for my retainer to run through the world selling crap. That'd be cool...make a website with his schedule and available goods...

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 4:37pm by TwistedOwl
#35 Aug 18 2010 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I'm not following the complaints about leves. I just did a leve party with a group of Japanese players, and there wasn't any sort of coordination problem. What happens is that you all gather around, and the leader accepts a leve. After he accepts, everyone has that leve active, and upon completion, everyone receives a reward plus difficulty bonus.

No one was upset that people were out of leves because we all received a larger reward and had a lot of fun together. Repeating a leve isn't a big deal either because you'd be grinding on the same mobs anyway; now you're in a party and guaranteed mob pops plus a reward. And eight leves seems fine to me, especially because it encourages crafting.
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#36 Aug 18 2010 at 3:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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There are a lot of ignorant posts here regarding leves, and some people are spouting info that is just plain wrong.

First of all, you will start the game with 5 adventurer leves that send you to Bearded Rock. They are all insanely easy and take you about 30 minutes to complete. If you are dense enough to get a group and then do them all on solo level (1 star), you will obviously get less exp because you will be killing half the mobs as you would solo. Considering you can do the 2 star level solo, you need to do those if you are solo to max your exp gained. If you get a couple other people you need to do the 3 or 4 star versions so you get more mobs and thus more exp to share.

People are not grouping much new because low level people never group...in any MMO...ever. It should be pretty much a given that folks will not start grouping until they are comfortable playing their character and get established in the world. I figure folks will start to group in any MMO once they have covered roughly 1/5 to 1/4 of the level spread. This will give them enough time to learn the basics of their game and their class. Until then, people like to stumble and bumble their way around a new game at their own pace.

It would be very easy to coordinate sharing of leves. True, the NPC that gives the leves is nowhere near the aetheryte you use to activate them, but they are all only a quick teleport away. It isn't like you would be waiting 10 minutes for someone to run all the way from Bearded Rock to the Adventurers Guild in Limsa and back. They would teleport to the aetheryte in Limsa, run about 1 minute to the Guild, grab the leves, then teleport back to the Bearded Rock aetheryte...all in about 2-3 minutes.

Once you have exhausted your adventurer leves, you can share leves with other people. As long as the exp is the same for a shared leve as it is for doing your own, it would be wise to do them with others. You could also do come crafting leves, or harvesting leves, all of which contribute to your physical level. If all else fails, you can just grind away on random mobs that are all over the place.

The main gripe I have is with the central story line. You basically run around the town watching cutscene after cutscene, and not doing anything to advance your character. I am not playing a MMO to watch a B-rate movie...I want to play, so sitting there doing nothing for literally 30 minutes is extremely boring. It got so bad I just logged off in the middle of it because I couldn't stand to watch another cutscene or run to another guild location in the town. If I go through the whole thing and don't end up getting to do anything then I don't see the point in even having it in the game.
#37 Aug 18 2010 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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495 posts
Quote:
Yeah, I'm not following the complaints about leves. I just did a leve party with a group of Japanese players, and there wasn't any sort of coordination problem. What happens is that you all gather around, and the leader accepts a leve. After he accepts, everyone has that leve active, and upon completion, everyone receives a reward plus difficulty bonus.

No one was upset that people were out of leves because we all received a larger reward and had a lot of fun together. Repeating a leve isn't a big deal either because you'd be grinding on the same mobs anyway; now you're in a party and guaranteed mob pops plus a reward. And eight leves seems fine to me, especially because it encourages crafting.


The problem isn't the rewards, it's there isn't anything else to do in this game EXCEPT Guild Leve or Grind at the moment. Almost all the quests right now are regulated to guild leves so once your done with them... your done unless you think others will take you. What they need to do is better balance rewards for doing things in groups if they want to have this attitude. They need to make taking that higher starred guild leve more worthwhile so that the person utilizing the guild leve will be 'begging' to get people into his party to finish it. There is also behest which the developers described as "Something to do during Guild leve Down time" but they only happen once every 45 minutes at camps and act like a public assault from FFXI (or a dumbed down public quest from warhammer). Anyone that approaches NPC before he sets out will be flagged to participate in the event, the thing is the more people who join, the shorter the event and consequentially the less reward you get back, meanwhile making the time between behest longer. Maybe with more camps availible at launch it will alleviate this issue but I really, really hope they add more behest at minimum to the game if they want to keep that 48 cool down (If they can have upwards 20+ camps into the game so people can do a cycling behest schedule, then that would at least alleviate a lot of my concerns). People NEED something else to do in this game other then grind levels. Its the quickest way to alienate new players outside blatant game breaking bugs. The rest of the issues in this game are trivial (imo) compared to this issue because they can be solved within the first couple months or at launch.
#38 Aug 18 2010 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good
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croythegreat wrote:
The problem isn't the rewards, it's there isn't anything else to do in this game EXCEPT Guild Leve or Grind at the moment. Almost all the quests right now are regulated to guild leves so once your done with them... your done unless you think others will take you.


It doesn't look like this game is going to be the railroad track leveling folks have gotten used to in newer MMOs. We will not be passed from quest giver to quest giver with a huge yellow arrow over their heads telling us exactly what to do and where to do it. That may mean "there is nothing to do" to some people, but to others it means the game is more of a sandbox.

The leves appear to be there to make sure casual players have something to do the second they log in rather than wasting their limited playtime looking for a grind group. Sure, at level 1 you can blast through the leves in 5 minutes, but I bet higher ones will take longer, at which point the 48 hour lockout may make more sense. If you can get 8 leves that take 30 minutes each (the current time limit on leves) that is 4 hours of play time. I think any more than 4 hours every 2 days makes you more than a casual gamer, and the leves are not supposed to be the only way to play for non-casual players.
#40 Aug 18 2010 at 3:49 PM Rating: Good
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495 posts
Quote:
It doesn't look like this game is going to be the railroad track leveling folks have gotten used to in newer MMOs. We will not be passed from quest giver to quest giver with a huge yellow arrow over their heads telling us exactly what to do and where to do it. That may mean "there is nothing to do" to some people, but to others it means the game is more of a sandbox.

The leves appear to be there to make sure casual players have something to do the second they log in rather than wasting their limited playtime looking for a grind group. Sure, at level 1 you can blast through the leves in 5 minutes, but I bet higher ones will take longer, at which point the 48 hour lockout may make more sense. If you can get 8 leves that take 30 minutes each (the current time limit on leves) that is 4 hours of play time. I think any more than 4 hours every 2 days makes you more than a casual gamer, and the leves are not supposed to be the only way to play for non-casual players.


Its possible that is their intention, but if they believe that then they need something for people to strive for. FFXI was a special creature for group partying. You always had that next gear piece to look forward to or that sparse but game changing new ability or spell every 1-5 levels or trait. I think a lot of my concerns on group stuff will be solved in open beta and final release. Main problem in beta right now is they clearly don't have all the games equipment in beta, nor for that matter the other regions. (**** half of La Noscea is locked up and we can't get to any of the towns that are there, that should change for release). If they ditch optimal gear system, make it 'required gear' and make retainers easier to use to get equipment from crafters, then it 'should' be a much better game without changing much of the design. Basically the people that play the game constantly and aren't the normal casual people need something that clicks and says "I don't mind doing this for several hours". The other issue is that most of the guild leves 'rewards' are gil... but if you have little to use it on unless you are aimlessly moving from retainer to retainer, its not much of a reward lol.

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 5:51pm by croythegreat
#41 Aug 18 2010 at 3:54 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Well said Cryo and Enscheff, but there is more than leves and grinding and Behest....there is also Crafting and Gathering. This should take care of the rest of the day after you finish the other stuff.

yeah because most people play MMOs for the crafting >.> i dispise crafting personally, ofcourse ill do some since its essential in most MMOs anyway, but itll be fingernails on a chalk board every second.
and no hardware mouse? um, why though? its like playing an MMO on computer USING A GAMEPAD, why would you do that? oh wait, we dont have a choice cuz this is "come on guys its just beta"
well turns out beta is the final product.
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#42 Aug 18 2010 at 3:55 PM Rating: Decent
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croythegreat wrote:
Quote:
It doesn't look like this game is going to be the railroad track leveling folks have gotten used to in newer MMOs. We will not be passed from quest giver to quest giver with a huge yellow arrow over their heads telling us exactly what to do and where to do it. That may mean "there is nothing to do" to some people, but to others it means the game is more of a sandbox.

The leves appear to be there to make sure casual players have something to do the second they log in rather than wasting their limited playtime looking for a grind group. Sure, at level 1 you can blast through the leves in 5 minutes, but I bet higher ones will take longer, at which point the 48 hour lockout may make more sense. If you can get 8 leves that take 30 minutes each (the current time limit on leves) that is 4 hours of play time. I think any more than 4 hours every 2 days makes you more than a casual gamer, and the leves are not supposed to be the only way to play for non-casual players.


Its possible that is their intention, but if they believe that then they need something for people to strive for. FFXI was a special creature for group partying. You always had that next gear piece to look forward to or that sparse but game changing new ability or spell every 1-5 levels or trait. I think a lot of my concerns on group stuff will be solved in open beta and final release. Main problem in beta right now is they clearly don't have all the games equipment in beta, nor for that matter the other regions. (**** half of La Noscea is locked up and we can't get to any of the towns that are there, that should change for release). If they ditch optimal gear system, make it 'required gear' and make retainers easier to use to get equipment from crafters, then it 'should' be a much better game without changing much of the design. Basically the people that play the game constantly and aren't the normal casual people need something that clicks and says "I don't mind doing this for several hours". The other issue is that most of the guild leves 'rewards' are gil... but if you have little to use it on unless you are aimlessly moving from retainer to retainer, its not much of a reward lol.

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 5:51pm by croythegreat


There is a way to bypass the gates but I dont know if I should say it since we arent supposed to be there in beta.
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#43 Aug 18 2010 at 3:59 PM Rating: Default
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pixelpop wrote:
Quote:
Well said Cryo and Enscheff, but there is more than leves and grinding and Behest....there is also Crafting and Gathering. This should take care of the rest of the day after you finish the other stuff.

yeah because most people play MMOs for the crafting >.> i dispise crafting personally, ofcourse ill do some since its essential in most MMOs anyway, but itll be fingernails on a chalk board every second.
and no hardware mouse? um, why though? its like playing an MMO on computer USING A GAMEPAD, why would you do that? oh wait, we dont have a choice cuz this is "come on guys its just beta"
well turns out beta is the final product.


Dont be negative man people dont like when you say anything besides "FFXIV is awsome, who needs a mouse, who needs an auction house who needs key binding, remember its just beta!!!!"
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#44 Aug 18 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
There is a way to bypass the gates but I dont know if I should say it since we arent supposed to be there in beta.


Well... I mean as an actual gameplay location (I have seen what it looks like inside myself using that 'way' to bypass the gates).

This is what I mean when I feel most of my bad feelings about the beta will be alleviated when the game is released. Part of the fun I had playing FFXI when it first came to the NA was simply exploring the world. When all you have is the starter region with nothing but combat camps and a single city, the game feels consequentially lifeless. When you have more simple locales like towns (with more NPCs to use that bountiful amounts of gil you get from Guild Leves lol), you also have things like ferries across to the other continent that is currently missing but will be implemented in full release, more city-states quests/missions and if you do a bit grinding on the side with guild leves here and there. People should have enough to do till the first content patch if they don't steam roll their leveling.

Still I didn't like the artificial extension of game events in FFXI, and I don't like it in FFXIV with guild Leves. Thats a complaint I won't subside till I see more 24/7 (do it when you want to whenever), type events :P.
#45 Aug 18 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Default
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353 posts
They are trying to appeal to a whole new market for them, the carebear majority. Apparently its hard to make a game that works both ways. Since one thing will jeopardize the other. Guildleves was a stupid idea. They should just let us go camp and grind.
#46 Aug 18 2010 at 4:12 PM Rating: Decent
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croythegreat wrote:


The problem isn't the rewards, it's there isn't anything else to do in this game EXCEPT Guild Leve or Grind at the moment.



This would be my main worry as well.

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 6:15pm by Kierk
#47 Aug 18 2010 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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edrikthorn wrote:
Well said Cryo and Enscheff, but there is more than leves and grinding and Behest....there is also Crafting and Gathering. This should take care of the rest of the day after you finish the other stuff.


The thing is there isn't more then leves, grinding and Behest. You say there is only crafting and gathering. Guess what that involves? You guessed it! Grinding and more leves.

The sad thing is even if someone loves grinding and leves, you can't even do those for hours on end. You see, there is two small things that come up called 48 hour cool down and Surplus exp. So once you do all of your leves, behests, and are getting surplus exp on your jobs, what is there to do in FFXIV? As it stands right now nothing.

I honestly hope SE adds some lower level instances, some extensive mission system, or something so players will be occupied and not sitting around thinking how fun the game could be if there was more to do.
#48 Aug 18 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Actually its starting to sound like surprlus EXP has been bugged till now and its tied directly to the current quality of your item. You repair the item and Weapon Surplus goes away, maybe Physical EXP surplus is tied to armor quality as well. Someone on BG went from in the yellow on surplus using a lvl 1 tham weapon to out of surplus just by simply repairing the item.
#49 Aug 18 2010 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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I definitely got the impression from reading this that they've decided to release an inferior product (inferior to FFXI specifically) so they can fix it later.

Hardware mouse? FFXI's got it, same dev team... FFXIV? Nope, and Tanaka-san says it isn't planned

Auction house? Every MMO on the planet's got it, FFXIV? Nope, apparently the crush of bazaars is better especially with limited to no search options for finding what you want among the horde of retainers

Guildleves? Most modern MMOs have some way of handling guided questing and that's basically all this is, except now we're supposed to do 8 of them every 48 hours and if we want to play for more than an hour every 2 days we should find other people to help. Except for several glaring problems:
- There's no way to know if someone has guildleves to contribute to your party
- If you, as a party, complete a guildleve that more than one person has, it completes for everyone that has it. This means you can't chain duplicate leves
- The most efficient method of doing this now becomes joining a party while holding zero leves, and coordinating amongst yourselves who the leves are coming from at any given time.
- Oh btw, you have to teleport back to town to get them (4 anima) and then teleport back to camp to do them (4 anima), at a minimum you're spending 8 anima for this single party, you generate 4 anima per 24 hour period (real time). So 8 anima per 48 hour guildleve cooldown.... Guess you're only meant to play the game every 2 days?

I don't understand how the design of this game can be so flawed. It's not like the developers have never made an MMO before, but looking at these things you'd think they didn't even know what it stood for. This is almost insulting, because you know they can do better than this and are choosing not to.

/rant

EDIT: If only I could spell

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 6:12pm by Callinon
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#50 Aug 18 2010 at 4:53 PM Rating: Default
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I agree and this is why I am so super disappointed so far. SE is ignoring us on purpose, they dont care about us, they want to grab a new userbase which doesnt include us. I'll still buy the game but if the first month is awful Im not resubscribing.

It could go the way of Vanguard:SOH which had a good starter base until the one month was up. Its subscription level plummeted due to all the bugs in the game.

If people dont end up liking the game, they wont pay the 13 a month. U HEAR ME SQUARE-ENIX HQ!

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 6:55pm by Imaboomer
#51 Aug 18 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Actually what I got from the "AH comment" is that instead of adding an AH they would rather work on making the retainer system better before 'stooping' to implementing an AH which they know would overshadow all the rest of the games market (**** looks what happened to FFXI, they couldn't even do regional AH anymore once a central hub of Jueno became the only place to sell high end stuff). If they add a simple retainer search while within the market or when conversing with your retainer, make it possible to select 'wish to buy' on items that are NOT in your inventory. It will be just fine. Just adding those two functions to the retainer system and make the menu system less laggy and it will function just fine as an AH replacement. The real question is if they can get those 'fixes' up in short order for release. If they expect people to use the system as it is now even with less menu lag then they are sorely mistaken.
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