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new information from a interview talks about AH, 48 hour cooFollow

#52 Aug 18 2010 at 5:07 PM Rating: Default
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As for the launch however we want to make sure that the game is easy and accessable for casual players.

I love how they expect casual gamers to drop hundreds of dollars on a rig, spend the $50+ to get the game itself, and then continue to pay a monthly subscription fee. All for an RPG, no less. Have casual gamers even heard of Final Fantasy much less purchased one of the games? I think SE's under the impression that they're as well-known to the casual crowd as Madden, Call of Duty or even Wii Sports / Carnival Games.

Do us all a favor and cater to the ones paying for this game, not the ones you wish were paying for this game. We're the ones emptying our wallets for this ****, and you know it.
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#53 Aug 18 2010 at 5:09 PM Rating: Decent
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This interview feels like a slap in the face to me.
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#54 Aug 18 2010 at 5:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Callinon wrote:
I definitely got the impression from reading this that they've decided to release an inferior produce (inferior to FFXI specifically) so they can fix it later.

Hardware mouse? FFXI's got it, same dev team... FFXIV? Nope, and Tanaka-san says it isn't planned

Auction house? Every MMO on the planet's got it, FFXIV? Nope, apparently the crush of bazaars is better especially with limited to no search options for finding what you want among the horde of retainers

Guildleves? Most modern MMOs have some way of handling guided questing and that's basically all this is, except now we're supposed to do 8 of them every 48 hours and if we want to play for more than an hour every 2 days we should find other people to help. Except for several glaring problems:
- There's no way to know if someone has guildleves to contribute to your party
- If you, as a party, complete a guildleve that more than one person has, it completes for everyone that has it. This means you can't chain duplicate leves
- The most efficient method of doing this now becomes joining a party while holding zero leves, and coordinating amongst yourselves who the leves are coming from at any given time.
- Oh btw, you have to teleport back to town to get them (4 anima) and then teleport back to camp to do them (4 anima), at a minimum you're spending 8 anima for this single party, you generate 4 anima per 24 hour period (real time). So 8 anima per 48 hour guildleve cooldown.... Guess you're only meant to play the game every 2 days?

I don't understand how the design of this game can be so flawed. It's not like the developers have never made an MMO before, but looking at these things you'd think they didn't even know what it stood for. This is almost insulting, because you know they can do better than this and are choosing not to.

/rant


This pretty much sums up how I feel. People have been raging for pages upon pages on the feedback forums of the beta test site about how angry they are about the lack of a Auction House and the guildleve cool down/lack of more guildleves/lack of content. I mean, it's something people are angry about in the masses. Pages upon Pages of angry rants about them, and Square Enix just decides to ignore all of this.

This is the exact attitude we don't need. This is the attitude it took Square Enix years to get passed in in FFXI but alas, it was too little too late, however once they DID, the remaining consumers, myself included, were much happier and put a lot more faith in Square Enix. In this day and time, you can't just ignore consumers so blatantly. We are in a economic worldwide recession, money is a lot harder to come by, people are more on edge than ever, and people have been playing MMORPG's long enough now that they know what works and what doesn't work. They know what they want and what they need.

When you completely ignore such large complaints with such disregard to the consumer, well... It really worries me. I WANT FFXIV to succeed and be it's best more than anything. I want to support it, I want it to do good and be it's best, but they will simply lose out on too many subscribers for the game to not tank if they don't listen to, and respect the community.

People don't want to go spend a hour looking through God knows how many bazaars (beta 3 already is like comparing a wal-mart supercenter to a small town gas station as far as rollanberry fields/market wards go) just to find simple things they need, like craftable items, food, crystals, and of course armor and weapons. It's almost as if Square Enix wants to fill in peoples time by making them spend hours shopping around for things... This is a bad bad bad idea because people will get sick of this really quickly. Auction Houses exist for a reason, they work, and they work well. They make buying and selling things and operating a in game economy much easier on the consumer.

I don't even know what to say about the guildleves. I can't even go into it looking at Square Enix's attitude concerning the Auction House feature. And no hardware mouse planned...? These are all things that there are honestly hundreds upon hundreds of PAGES of complaints and raging about on the beta forums with pretty much the entire population agreeing upon. Yet, Square Enix chooses to do things their way. I just, am really losing faith quickly in a company that I really deep down want to believe in.

I wonder if the saying in Japan goes "The company is always right"?
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#55 Aug 18 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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As for the launch however we want to make sure that the game is easy and accessable for casual players.

I love how they expect casual gamers to drop hundreds of dollars on a rig, spend the $50+ to get the game itself, and then continue to pay a monthly subscription fee. All for an RPG, no less. Have casual gamers even heard of Final Fantasy much less purchased one of the games? I think SE's under the impression that they're as well-known to the casual crowd as Madden, Call of Duty or even Wii Sports / Carnival Games.

Do us all a favor and cater to the ones paying for this game, not the ones you wish were paying for this game. We're the ones emptying our wallets for this ****, and you know it.



That's right, we need to hoard our precious. Keep those filthy casualses out. We'd rather play a lame duck of a game dead in the water than have it be financially stable enough to have a life span and the resources to develop quality content. Smiley: rolleyes

If you want a hardcore game, go play Demon's Souls. The age of hardcore gaming is gone. In today's global market, companies can only stay on top by getting people who normally wouldn't play their games, to play them. People who have scored as low as 1000-1500 on the benchmark have been reporting that they are able to play the game just fine. So yes, it still is a few hundred dollars for the game to be playable on a PC, but your point pretty much is void considering that the PS3 version will be out in six months. Which isn't that long when you consider folks have been "waiting" for this game since it was code named Rapture back in 2005.

Besides, it's not the developer's fault hardware costs money. Should Bungie have given out free XBox units because it was the only way to play their $60 game? Why does it always have to be "hardcore or nothing" with you people? There will be shinies for you to parade around in that the casual people will just never get, but god forbid SE gives people who can only log on for 30 minutes something to do.
#56 Aug 18 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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I'm concerned with all this focus on guildleves. If Guildleves are the primary source of xping, what is the incentive for a group to CONTINUE xping as a group AFTER the guildleves are done? Are groups expected to just form, do guildleves, and then break? If so, that's a horrible mechanic.
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#57 Aug 18 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Sephrick wrote:
w34v3r wrote:
Quote:
As for the launch however we want to make sure that the game is easy and accessable for casual players.

I love how they expect casual gamers to drop hundreds of dollars on a rig, spend the $50+ to get the game itself, and then continue to pay a monthly subscription fee. All for an RPG, no less. Have casual gamers even heard of Final Fantasy much less purchased one of the games? I think SE's under the impression that they're as well-known to the casual crowd as Madden, Call of Duty or even Wii Sports / Carnival Games.

Do us all a favor and cater to the ones paying for this game, not the ones you wish were paying for this game. We're the ones emptying our wallets for this ****, and you know it.



That's right, we need to hoard our precious. Keep those filthy casualses out. We'd rather play a lame duck of a game dead in the water than have it be financially stable enough to have a life span and the resources to develop quality content. Smiley: rolleyes

If you want a hardcore game, go play Demon's Souls. The age of hardcore gaming is gone. In today's global market, companies can only stay on top by getting people who normally wouldn't play their games, to play them. People who have scored as low as 1000-1500 on the benchmark have been reporting that they are able to play the game just fine. So yes, it still is a few hundred dollars for the game to be playable on a PC, but your point pretty much is void considering that the PS3 version will be out in six months. Which isn't that long when you consider folks have been "waiting" for this game since it was code named Rapture back in 2005.

Besides, it's not the developer's fault hardware costs money. Should Bungie have given out free XBox units because it was the only way to play their $60 game? Why does it always have to be "hardcore or nothing" with you people? There will be shinies for you to parade around in that the casual people will just never get, but god forbid SE gives people who can only log on for 30 minutes something to do.


Everyone always says if you want easy or casual STFU and go play wow. If this is gonna be a casual game with beautiful graphics and terrible controls, no auction house poor tutorials most casuals probably will just buy it, try it cancel and go play wow.
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#58 Aug 18 2010 at 5:32 PM Rating: Decent
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That's what doesn't add up for me. They already have the experience, but with all of these complaints you'd think their goal is for the game to fail. That makes no sense. I know everyone's joking about people thinking SE will magically fix everything in a month...but I have to think there's something they're hiding away and not telling us. Now I'm not counting on it and maybe it's complete naive hope, but if that's not the case, I don't see how they could be that determined to produce what many are calling such a failure of a game...

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 7:34pm by TwistedOwl
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#59 Aug 18 2010 at 5:47 PM Rating: Good
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KarlHungis the Prohpet wrote:
edrikthorn wrote:



Look at it this way.....if you get a group of 4 -6 people together to do leves.....you can end up doing 32-48 leves in total in 1 day.....even if you have to go and start 1 leve at a time and repeat each one 8 times, but thats why they made it easier to move around instead of having to walk all the way to your "camp" to kill mobs like in FFXI.

I think it is a really good way to do party XPing.....people just have to give it a chance.


I understand the math of it very well, and on paper it sounds terrific. I already explained though why it doesn't quite work out that way in practice.

The NPC that gives you the leves is nowhere near the spot where you do the leves, and every time you finish one set of leves, some one has to travel back to town to get more leves, then travel back to the group. On top of that, it only works if you coordinate ahead of time. If I grab my 6 leves and you grab your 6 leves and we meet up at Bearded Rock, chances are we've got a lot of the same leves. As soon as we start doing mine, a lot of yours will get completely automatically. Instead of 12 leves we really have more like 7-8, unless one of us never took our leves in town.

This works fine if you're going to do this with a static party, but if you're trying to make it work with strangers, well, how the heck are you going to coordinate that? More importantly, how are you going to ensure that certain people actually stick around long enough to contribute their leves, or know if they already did their leves? Answer is, you don't know any of that. The only way to do it fairly would be to alternate leves, but that means some one has to go back to town after every leve, which is a solid 10+ minutes of downtime.


I have to agree with both of you. I already have a set group of friends I'll be playing with and I know we won't mind wiating while someone runs back to town to start another leve. Doesn't really matter if we're not getting waves of exp and skill ups Just good friends haveing fun together. Thought that was the point of a MMO?

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 7:48pm by RSquires
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#60 Aug 18 2010 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
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That's right, we need to hoard our precious. Keep those filthy casualses out. We'd rather play a lame duck of a game dead in the water than have it be financially stable enough to have a life span and the resources to develop quality content.

If you want a hardcore game, go play Demon's Souls. The age of hardcore gaming is gone. In today's global market, companies can only stay on top by getting people who normally wouldn't play their games, to play them. People who have scored as low as 1000-1500 on the benchmark have been reporting that they are able to play the game just fine. So yes, it still is a few hundred dollars for the game to be playable on a PC, but your point pretty much is void considering that the PS3 version will be out in six months. Which isn't that long when you consider folks have been "waiting" for this game since it was code named Rapture back in 2005.

Besides, it's not the developer's fault hardware costs money. Should Bungie have given out free XBox units because it was the only way to play their $60 game? Why does it always have to be "hardcore or nothing" with you people? There will be shinies for you to parade around in that the casual people will just never get, but god forbid SE gives people who can only log on for 30 minutes something to do.


Amazing points. I can't wait to see how well they hold up when a mass of casual gamers suddenly forsake their Wii, DS, 360 and/or WoW for a copy of Final Fantasy XIV. After being enlightened by your words of wisdom, I can totally see that happening. Spread the word, bros, XIV is totally casual-friendly! Let's all pay hundreds of dollars on either a totally casual PS3 (I mean, it's basically just as popular as the PS2, right? Everybody owns one, after all) or PC and a recurring subscription fee so we can spend our limited 30-minute game break to log in, swat a few mobs, and log out!

:P By the way, I'm not saying they should cater solely to the "hardcore" (I, for one, don't consider myself "hardcore" -- e.g. I'm not generally willing to raid into the wee hours of the night for the sake of a virtual piece of armor -- but I certainly don't take one 30 minute break a day to play a game I'm paying monthly for, either. So, please, don't classify me as a type just because I find it both amusing and fairly irritating that they plan on catering to the casual crowd by ******** everybody else.
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#61 Aug 18 2010 at 6:02 PM Rating: Good
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Im not too worried because im just gonna use leves as a supplement xp spike to normal xping on the plentiful mobs. We will all be playing soon enough and then the worries can slowly start to vanish.
#62 Aug 18 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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I find it amusing that people that are singing the praises of how XI did things are very often the same people that quit that game years ago. If you want such a rigid party system with masses of content go play FFXI, Square are going to support both games. If not accept 14 for what it IS and not what you want it to be. It's a very pretty game thats aimed at casual gamers and they have said that all along.

Also sorry but blind faith in Square is kinda silly, after how they ran FFXI over the years people should know better. Don't expect quick fixes for things people have big issues with either that is not how they do their business. I'm really worried about the software mouse thing and again knowing how square do things it could take literally years for them to change that. :(

This thread is full of people that refused to see the wood for the trees, finally they are accepting what was said all along and they don't like it.
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#63Imaboomer, Posted: Aug 18 2010 at 6:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) i am going to laugh my head off once preludes get the game and QQ all over his tears HAHAHA
#64 Aug 18 2010 at 6:15 PM Rating: Decent
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There won't be any, I will be playing FFXI as I have for years and FFXIV for my casual fun game. I, unlike you never had expectations that had no grounding in reality and I also read what the devs said about the game.

I already know what it will be and how it will play, you're the one that put blinkers on so I will have nothing to QQ about.
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#65 Aug 18 2010 at 6:18 PM Rating: Default
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nd FFXIV for my
    casual
fun game.


.............
And there goes my point.

YOU WIN THIS ROUND, SEPHRICK
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#66 Aug 18 2010 at 6:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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I consider myself fairly casual. I have no intentions on logging on and playing for 5-6 hours a night. I have no wish to have to log on, wait for an hour or more to party, then grind for hours on end just to get higher levels to be able to access more content. I still want to play FFXIV because I enjoyed the experiences I had in FFXI and many of the friends I met in FFXI will be in FFXIV. I have absolutely no wish to play WoW because it just seems childish. I just want a game I can play with my friends and have fun with. I don't want a digital job, my work irl is difficult enough as is. This is a game and it will be treated as such.

You people who call casuals names and believe that your precious game is too special for the casuals can bite me.
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#67 Aug 18 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Default
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The game really is a mess right now. I'm not even playing it anymore because it's simply too boring and aggravating. It is very much like they don't know what they're doing, but at least they seem to be doing a good job of listening to player feedback-- it's disappointing that they have decided to delay their response on certain things like the AH.

One thing I haven't seen much mention of with regards to guild leves is how little time they actually take. You have half an hour to do them, but they really take no time at all, and there is very little challenge to them, especially early in the game. So most people's first impression of the game will be that they have about half an hour of solo content after they do ALL of their leves, and then nothing else to do but grind.

It shouldn't be too hard to make the leves more difficult and interesting, and fix it so that there is more incentive to team up (besides "you get more skill, but not really after it's divided between everyone"). But I don't think I'm going to be playing until at least that much is fixed. Currently it seems they've managed to make the grind to cap even more uninteresting than in XI.
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#68 Aug 18 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Default
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The game really is a mess right now. I'm not even playing it anymore because it's simply too boring and aggravating.


Not to mention broken. The agro system is broken. If you let pugilist taunt, attack and then use ur attack, u still get agro. Toss a cure and u will end up dead if the enemy use their TP move on u. BOOM 400+ damage. Apparently spirit dart which does 33 dmg gets agro over a lancer who does 44 dmg per attack. It has LOL written all over it.
#69 Aug 18 2010 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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I have actually taken some time to think about a bit and I'm not as mad as I was before. It seems most peoples 'expectations' on the much toted Guild Leve was too high to begin with (That obviously includes me). We are missing the games other content that is clearly there or will be there. The beta has a fairly decent quest journal and they have things for local quests, regional quests, mission quests, and class quest on TOP of Guild Leve Regional and Local leves. None of these quests are in beta (except the starter quest called Treasures of the Main, which is in fact just a local quest chain and not a mission one) and its probably because the other quests didn't need to be added for the purpose of their testing and were thus side lined for final launch. The only reason that Treasures of the main was added was to test the first quest and its ability to introduce you to game world of which they have taken feedback and said would be changing in this very interview.

Basically we need to stop thinking of Leves as a replacement for EXP and gameplay and instead as simply another feature on top of the foundation of FFXI and now FFXIV world system. There will be class quests, local one time quests, missions and other things to take up our time and the guild leve is mainly a system that both casuals and hardcore can enjoy while doing other things in game on top of that. Its something you can just enter the game world and do without much hassle and to expand the system you need to work with other players.

As for the length of the Guild leves... they actually seem to get lengthier with level. More mobs to kill, they get bunched up more. Death = at minimum 3 minutes of your time off the clock and if the leve is to easily soloed, up the difficulty and see if you can solo it then. Might take up more of your time and if you win you get more reward both in skill up and gil.

Now they also obviously want you to grind EXP in a group setting again and do it much slower in solo if you choose to do it. This 'idea' was not stated in press releases much nor was it a thing in the beta, but the last patch basically sealed the idea they WANT people to attack things that higher then them again for better skill ups/exp. Go into the game believing all this and you will probably not be disappointed. Most of us just had too high of expectations for features that were only supposed to compliment an already large core game.
#70 Aug 18 2010 at 6:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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[************************. A 48 hr. cooldown is WAY too much, I don't care what SE says. Plus, why would I want to do a guildleve someone else is doing, then have to do it again for myself in 48 hrs? It doesn't make much sense. I expected everything else to be said though, they're preaching the same thing most of us are:

"It's a beta, chill the @#%^ out, the game release will be smoother and much better to play"

In the end though, I truly do have faith in SE. They know what they're doing.[/quote]

In beta, there is a a small amount of leve's you can do.let's say 4 for the sake of this argument. If you solo them, it's 2hrs and done. If you join say 3 other people that all have 4 leve's... you can all do 16 leve's. Everyone will get exp and gil from all leve's, so it's definitely worth doing in a party.

Edit: I know this was posted all ready, but i don't think it can be stressed enough. When SE nerfs solo xp, or buffs party xp, this will be the way to go. I think it could make for a nice LS event when people don't feel like grinding on mobs.... because you can do that too. And believe me, you will need a party for a good amount of the mobs.

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 8:53pm by Teneleven
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#71 Aug 18 2010 at 6:58 PM Rating: Default
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If others have the same leve, then they all get marked completed once the leve is finished. Your whole statement is void.
#72 Aug 18 2010 at 7:14 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not completely familiar with how Guildleves work, I think I do remember reading something about possibly receiving rewards through them though. Maybe the cool down is to limit future rewards in some way?
#73 Aug 18 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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Osanshouo wrote:
I'm not completely familiar with how Guildleves work, I think I do remember reading something about possibly receiving rewards through them though. Maybe the cool down is to limit future rewards in some way?

Considering how there are some nice rewards, that could be. Some have armor for rewards, gil, and guild points or w/e they are called.
By the way, those guild marks or w/e can be turned in for some decent stuff. Crafting books (yeah, some things need to be learned before you can craft it), and some cool pots that do various things. New TP skill moves are in there also.
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#74 Aug 18 2010 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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For a bit of perspective, how difficult do you think it would be for SE to implement mana regen, shortened guildleve timers, ex bonuses, etc?

The phrase that comes to mind is "if it bombs, we can always roll it back to the old way".

TBH, I was expecting these systems to complement the "old way" [FFXI way] regarding leveling, etc. I'm not really happy about SEs responses in this interview, but at the same time I can see them easily able to revert or alter based on how quickly their subscriber base nosedives.

My guess is that they'll try this for a month or two, maybe 6. . depending on subscription cancellations/increases. If this way is unsuccessful, they'll just re-integrate the "old way".

It almost seems like they've gone in completely the other direction though. With XI they wanted you glued to your computer for 16+ hours. Now, they seem intent on getting you in and out as quick as possible.


Mind you, all this is reason based conjecture, as I'm [unfortunately] not in the beta and can only analyze others' descriptions of these issues, but it seems logical enough. I'd love to hear some feedback from actual beta testers though regarding my theories :)
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#75 Aug 18 2010 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
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seneleron wrote:
For a bit of perspective, how difficult do you think it would be for SE to implement mana regen, shortened guildleve timers, ex bonuses, etc?

The phrase that comes to mind is "if it bombs, we can always roll it back to the old way".

TBH, I was expecting these systems to complement the "old way" [FFXI way] regarding leveling, etc. I'm not really happy about SEs responses in this interview, but at the same time I can see them easily able to revert or alter based on how quickly their subscriber base nosedives.

My guess is that they'll try this for a month or two, maybe 6. . depending on subscription cancellations/increases. If this way is unsuccessful, they'll just re-integrate the "old way".

It almost seems like they've gone in completely the other direction though. With XI they wanted you glued to your computer for 16+ hours. Now, they seem intent on getting you in and out as quick as possible.


Mind you, all this is reason based conjecture, as I'm [unfortunately] not in the beta and can only analyze others' descriptions of these issues, but it seems logical enough. I'd love to hear some feedback from actual beta testers though regarding my theories :)


About the mana regen. I can tell you first hand that it isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. It is a hassle at lower levels, but your weapon makes up for it imo. Your spirit dart does good damage, and you will use it alot to save mana. Also, there are ethers in game, not to mention food. The skills you get will help give you mana back, and most melee jobs can heal themselves anyway, so that will take some heat off of healers.
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#76 Aug 18 2010 at 7:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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and no hardware mouse? um, why though? its like playing an MMO on computer USING A GAMEPAD, why would you do that?


Because Using a game pad in an MMO that's designed to support it is awesome.

I can get behind the 'to each their own' cliche if you can (because I despise the use of mice in an MMO, for example, and it's miserable on the wrists.)
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#77 Aug 18 2010 at 7:50 PM Rating: Default
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I can tell you first hand that it isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. It is a hassle at lower levels, but your weapon makes up for it imo


I've read this time and time again, but this does nothing to fix the fact that casters are perpetually chained to Aetherite. It makes caster classes almost [if not completely] impossible to be self-sufficient beyond short sorties. Just because it's not bad NOW, does not mean it won't be an exacerbated issue later on in the game.

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Because Using a game pad in an MMO that's designed to support it is awesom


I'm happy for those that enjoy using controllers. In my world they're called noobsticks, and they are used by console players and those who lack the skill and proficiency to master the art of keyboard/mouse. My view on this is that SE is deliberately nerfing mouse control to keep it no better than your average noo. . . er. . controller. I did not spend $80 on a precision mouse in order for it to run like a $5 used ebay purchase. Why even bother releasing it for PC at all if you're just going to make it run like a 2nd rate console port? Pretty Graphic Alone DO NOT an Epic make.

I apologize to anyone offended by my blunt representation of controllers vs keyboard/mouse combos. You're entitled to your opinions and your controllers, naturally.

http://gizmodo.com/5593116/were-pc-gamers-too-good-for-microsofts-cross+platform-gaming-project

I am, of course, entitled to mine as well :D
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#78 Aug 18 2010 at 8:05 PM Rating: Good
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seneleron wrote:
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Because Using a game pad in an MMO that's designed to support it is awesom


I'm happy for those that enjoy using controllers. In my world they're called noobsticks, and they are used by console players and those who lack the skill and proficiency to master the art of keyboard/mouse. My view on this is that SE is deliberately nerfing mouse control to keep it no better than your average noo. . . er. . controller. I did not spend $80 on a precision mouse in order for it to run like a $5 used ebay purchase. Why even bother releasing it for PC at all if you're just going to make it run like a 2nd rate console port? Pretty Graphic Alone DO NOT an Epic make.

I apologize to anyone offended by my blunt representation of controllers vs keyboard/mouse combos. You're entitled to your opinions and your controllers, naturally.

http://gizmodo.com/5593116/were-pc-gamers-too-good-for-microsofts-cross+platform-gaming-project

I am, of course, entitled to mine as well :D


Interesting article, I love my inferior controller, trying to play a game with a mouse just feels wrong to me...but I've never tried a FPS on the computer either. That seems to be where the mouse/keyboard shines. I remember someone talking about this before, that they needed to nerf the mouse control to be equal with the controllers. But why in this game? Would it really hurt the game to give users of all control methods the best? There's no PvP... maybe it would give you an edge in NM claiming? -shrugs-
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#79 Aug 18 2010 at 8:09 PM Rating: Good
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Okay so reading over these post some people on both sides on teh fence have valid points. But who oh why are some people still doing the My opinion is right and your are wrong so im goign to tell you your wrong and act like a kid until you say im right? why people???

Anyway From what i got out of the interview, they are testing things to see how they work, they would love for the bazzaar aspect to take off and work, if it dosnt work the way they want it to AH might come back. Guildleve Cooldowns 48 hours i find is a little much but without playing the beta myself, cant tell if its good or not. They say they want people to help others with there guildleve's so a 48 hour cooldown on them sorta forces people to help others during the downtime, im sure theres other ways to level up too, i dont think guildleve's are all the game is about.

Mana regen, they say they want It difficult for casters
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we think managing mana should be difficult and a challenge to the players.

So casters in the game are going to be thoes who enjoy a a challenge and are more then likely people who will like to figure things out. mabey not though not sure.

Contoler VS mouse and or keyboard.. Personal preferace people!! why you telling other people how they should play??? (not directed at anybody in particual just sayign in general)

And for thoes people who are complaining about sh$# in the beta GOOD! but if you told like it, use the freeking beta forum, tell them what you dont like, why and what you would like to see in there place. dotn just say "it sucks and i wotn buy ffxiv because of it" You dont like something, even if they dont take your advice , your in beta to give them your opnion just as much as you are to fix bugs! do something about it instead of just whining!!!

But as i said, alot of good views from both sides in this thread. And I respect all your opinions even if i dont agree with them. Attidues i dont respect. but your opinions are good :).

*Edit* spelling still sucks

P.S. i dont rate people down often and havent in this thread at all. you really need to deserve it for me to do it :P rates up i do more often for thoes who deserve it, And yes i have rated up people whos opinions i didnt agree with soley for the fact of there positive attitude and frendlyness even with dissagreeing with stuff i say.

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 10:12pm by Puppy1
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#80 Aug 18 2010 at 8:13 PM Rating: Good
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I've read this time and time again, but this does nothing to fix the fact that casters are perpetually chained to Aetherite.


That's not exactly true, if you don't mind spending a lot of gil on meds. But, besides that, aetherite is everywhere. There are some great spots to party, right on top of aetherite spots. They are spread out across the map.

I'm not saying that it is a perfect system, but it will surely bring more strategy and challenge to the game. I'm all for that personally.
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#81 Aug 18 2010 at 8:33 PM Rating: Good
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aetherite is everywhere


In the beta, maybe that's correct. You have no idea if they plan to adjust it downward, or if it's just as plentiful in higher level areas. It COULD be that way in the beta just to speed testing.

Quote:
But why in this game? Would it really hurt the game to give users of all control methods the best? There's no PvP... maybe it would give you an edge in NM claiming? -shrugs-


I didn't say it was rational, I just cannot fathom why SE would not implement mouse performance inside FFXIV the way it is OUTSIDE FFXIV [IE, in windows and every other program in recent history that I'm aware of]

The ONLY thing I can think of is that the advanced precision would allow quicker targeting of mobs vs a controller. I can think of no other reasonable explanation of WHY they wouldn't support such basic functionality








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#82 Aug 18 2010 at 8:53 PM Rating: Good
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Basically I think SE has decided to put out a completely unpolished product. If your game doesn't even have mouse support, then I don't even know what to say. Honestly, everything seems pretty bare bones and I was worried when they were so conservative about putting out information about the game. It's becoming clearly that there wasn't much information to put out beyond the leve system. I have to say this is looking to be very disappointing. Maybe they have taken too much of a loss from production and needed to bring some cash in to continue development. I've already pre-ordered the collectors edition so I will start at PC release. I assume we can expect a good 3-4 month period after release until the game looks "developed". My personal strategy is going to be going into the game knowing it will be unpolished and use that time to work on grinding crafts and other various tedious elements of the game. Then when things are in a better state, I will personally be in a better position to be successful and enjoy myself in game. For those that are disappointed because they can't play until March on the PS3, you may very well be the lucky ones ; )


I have no doubt that this game, when all is said and done, will be epic. However, let's not be too enamored with SE that we are unable to admit that some things are looking quite concerning at the moment.
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#83 Aug 18 2010 at 9:01 PM Rating: Good
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Contoler VS mouse and or keyboard.. Personal preferace people!! why you telling other people how they should play??? (not directed at anybody in particual just sayign in general)


Despite my controller prejudice I agree 100%, which is why I find it so upsetting that SE is trying to do just that: Force controller use on me by failing to support basic mouse functionality.
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#84 Aug 18 2010 at 9:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Despite my controller prejudice I agree 100%, which is why I find it so upsetting that SE is trying to do just that: Force controller use on me by failing to support basic mouse functionality.

I, too, agree that forcing controller use is just disappointing, and this is coming from a kid who grew up with console games.
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#85 Aug 18 2010 at 9:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I actually am ok with the idea to hold back on the AH. They gave a very good reason, as it will shape the economy as a whole if its exactly the way it was in XI.

Expanding the retainer system and its functions as of now is the best bet to help crafting and gathering jobs and how the uncertainty of a new games fresh economic system ties into natural economic competition.

A auction house will be the best thing for evening out and almost immediately setting basic price's for items...but in turn can end up hurting the career crafters in the long run (or create monopoly's on products...which is much worse)

So SE's current plan of 'lets see how the economy forms with no AH and see if it needs one latter' is a odd plan...but a sound plan.
#86 Aug 18 2010 at 9:45 PM Rating: Good
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seneleron wrote:

The ONLY thing I can think of is that the advanced precision would allow quicker targeting of mobs vs a controller. I can think of no other reasonable explanation of WHY they wouldn't support such basic functionality


I am not a developer or anything but if SE is stuggling to get FFXIV running on PS3 - wouldn't adding hardware mouse control take up even more space and developer energy? I am asking a total noob question here, but honestly if you were a dev and you were having trouble making your game run on a system that didn't have enough juice to fully run what you had going on, would you add more supports that will make it even more difficult to run on the hardware?

If mouse gives an advantage and is difficult to implement on a console then no wonder SE isn't making it a priority to add mouse support. If they make a game that is natively easier on a pc then why would consoles even play.

People can call gamepad users noobs or whatever, but it is simply different hardware. To pretend you are more l337 because you use mouse and keyboard over a "noobstick" is ridiculous. No, the game should do its best not to advantage users based on hardware...
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#87 Aug 18 2010 at 11:24 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus wrote:
seneleron wrote:

The ONLY thing I can think of is that the advanced precision would allow quicker targeting of mobs vs a controller. I can think of no other reasonable explanation of WHY they wouldn't support such basic functionality


I am not a developer or anything but if SE is stuggling to get FFXIV running on PS3 - wouldn't adding hardware mouse control take up even more space and developer energy? I am asking a total noob question here, but honestly if you were a dev and you were having trouble making your game run on a system that didn't have enough juice to fully run what you had going on, would you add more supports that will make it even more difficult to run on the hardware?

If mouse gives an advantage and is difficult to implement on a console then no wonder SE isn't making it a priority to add mouse support. If they make a game that is natively easier on a pc then why would consoles even play.

People can call gamepad users noobs or whatever, but it is simply different hardware. To pretend you are more l337 because you use mouse and keyboard over a "noobstick" is ridiculous. No, the game should do its best not to advantage users based on hardware...


No, you overlay your nice pretty graphic onto the mouse pointer and say good game, it's actually HARDER to implement a software mouse pointer.

Raising the argument that the game is easier to play on one platform than another is irrelevant, that bridge was crossed as soon as the game was decided to be multi-platform, of course one of them is going to run it better than another.

I would never call a gamepad user a noob, I would however appreciate it if my PC was treated like a PC and not like a PS3 with more RAM.
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#88 Aug 19 2010 at 6:49 AM Rating: Decent
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I get the feeling they are at least listening to feedback.
I'm pretty certain the AH will be implemented soon after release. It is far too impractical and time consuming to run around checking hundreds of retainers......damned annoying too if you blow your cash, then find what you bought cheaper elsewhere.
I also think the mouse will be sorted.
Sounds like it might be a bit frustrating the first week or two, then get tweaked as it progresses.
SE generally get it almost right. Here's hoping.
#89 Aug 19 2010 at 7:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have 2 concerns based upon this:

I have supported this game under the assumption that there will be dozens of normal quests (like the guiding the taru to the light house). If this is not the case, and all they have are random guild leves that can only be done every so often, this game will fail.

Other concern. The way that they completely ignore the request for the hardware mouse is a bit disturbing. It is the number one complained about issue on the beta forums. It does nothing to gameplay not to have it either. It doesn't change anything other than being easier to use your mouse. There is no reason to not even have considered the possibility of adding it. The fact that, even after the ***** storm in their feedback threads, that they haven't even considered it is kind of disappointing. it also points at how players will be treated in the future, which, despite how much I support SE and love their games, is also disappointing.

I can understand them wanting to limit AH at the start, to prevent price gouging on early game crafting items and such, so that the economy can stabilize quickly once it starts. I just hope that they put the NPC armor merchants back in the game at launch rather than treat it as a beta and give no alternate choice other than crafting. Crafting should be a reliable money maker and trade, but so also should fighting mobs.


#90 Aug 19 2010 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
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People can call gamepad users noobs or whatever, but it is simply different hardware. To pretend you are more l337 because you use mouse and keyboard over a "noobstick" is ridiculous


I wrote a while nice article about how you misinterpreted me. . and just deleted most of it. I feel the following paragraph stands on its own. All hardware is *NOT* Created equal.

Do I consider myself superior to people who play on controller? Not really, since it's not a fair comparison. It's like putting an F-16 against a Cessna in a dogfight. you have. . what. . 8 buttons and a fixed rate of cursor movement? I have full detailed curor control with DPI fine tuning, 12 button programmable macro keypad on my mouse ALONE. 12 button on the fly programmable macro setup on keyboard with option to convert numeric keypad to a macro ******** I don't have to have more skill than you. All I have to do is use my kit efficiently. The odds are by the time you're able to physically react with the controller it's more than too late. Your hardware just can't move as fast as mine, and you can't scroll through menus faster than I can press a pre-programmed macro button.












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#91 Aug 19 2010 at 9:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not in the beta, but I was under the impression that the majority of the content is still unavailable.


I'll hold my judgment until the final product is released and all of the content is open.


I hope the general attitude in this thread isn't an indication of the community I'll face, or the game might not be worth playing at all regardless of how many repeatable quests are available. Too bad too, it looks promising to me, but I don't plan on paying a monthly fee to play with poor attitudes.
#92 Aug 19 2010 at 10:45 AM Rating: Default
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I think the poor attitudes are coming from people that are severely disappointed. After having looked forward to this game for a long time, I got into beta and couldn't play for more than an hour at a time becasue it got so boring. That never happens to me in MMOs. I usually lose track of time, and then suddenly 4 hours are gone and I forgot to eat dinner.

#93 Aug 19 2010 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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seneleron wrote:

Do I consider myself superior to people who play on controller? Not really, since it's not a fair comparison. It's like putting an F-16 against a Cessna in a dogfight. you have. . what. . 8 buttons and a fixed rate of cursor movement? I have full detailed curor control with DPI fine tuning, 12 button programmable macro keypad on my mouse ALONE. 12 button on the fly programmable macro setup on keyboard with option to convert numeric keypad to a macro ******** I don't have to have more skill than you. All I have to do is use my kit efficiently. The odds are by the time you're able to physically react with the controller it's more than too late. Your hardware just can't move as fast as mine, and you can't scroll through menus faster than I can press a pre-programmed macro button.


And this is probably why they are not implementing hardware mouse. Because they want players - regardless of whether they are on console or computer to be on equal footing.

-edit-

and I am okay with that. Others may not be, and that is their right but I just don't get why it is so hard for some people to understand where the devs are coming from.

-edit again-

Also I have never expected to use a mouse on a nintendo game - or a playstation gamepad on a wii - or whatever. I always have played games with the hardware they were designed to support. I feel like people these days are a bit spoiled in terms of wanting to have complete control over everything. Honestly I don't care what hardware is supported as long as I can plug it in and play. I played FFXI with just a keyboard and honestly really enjoyed it that way. So mouse functionality isn't really important to me...

Edited, Aug 19th 2010 10:16am by Olorinus
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#94 Aug 19 2010 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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Olorinus wrote:
seneleron wrote:

Do I consider myself superior to people who play on controller? Not really, since it's not a fair comparison. It's like putting an F-16 against a Cessna in a dogfight. you have. . what. . 8 buttons and a fixed rate of cursor movement? I have full detailed curor control with DPI fine tuning, 12 button programmable macro keypad on my mouse ALONE. 12 button on the fly programmable macro setup on keyboard with option to convert numeric keypad to a macro ******** I don't have to have more skill than you. All I have to do is use my kit efficiently. The odds are by the time you're able to physically react with the controller it's more than too late. Your hardware just can't move as fast as mine, and you can't scroll through menus faster than I can press a pre-programmed macro button.


And this is probably why they are not implementing hardware mouse. Because they want players - regardless of whether they are on console or computer to be on equal footing.

-edit-

and I am okay with that. Others may not be, and that is their right but I just don't get why it is so hard for some people to understand where the devs are coming from.

-edit again-

Also I have never expected to use a mouse on a nintendo game - or a playstation gamepad on a wii - or whatever. I always have played games with the hardware they were designed to support. I feel like people these days are a bit spoiled in terms of wanting to have complete control over everything. Honestly I don't care what hardware is supported as long as I can plug it in and play. I played FFXI with just a keyboard and honestly really enjoyed it that way. So mouse functionality isn't really important to me...

Edited, Aug 19th 2010 10:16am by Olorinus


If Tanaka-san had stated that the software mouse was to keep console players on equal footing, that would at least be a reason, he doesn't see the need for it.

I'm not asking to play the game with hardware it wasn't designed for... this is a PC game, I'm playing it on a PC, the standard human-interface devices for a PC are a keyboard and mouse. I'm not asking for anything unusual here, in fact making me use a gamepad to play a PC game is rather an odd thing to do as that's not the platform such a device was designed for.
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#95 Aug 19 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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yeah but it is also a console game. It was always meant to be a console game as well as a PC game. It isn't just a PC game. There is a difference. And if it ends up being anything like XI you won't need a gamepad. Keyboard should be all you need in the end.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#96 Aug 19 2010 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not asking to play the game with hardware it wasn't designed for... this is a PC game, I'm playing it on a PC, the standard human-interface devices for a PC are a keyboard and mouse. I'm not asking for anything unusual here, in fact making me use a gamepad to play a PC game is rather an odd thing to do as that's not the platform such a device was designed for.


Rate up ^^. You say it far more objectively than I find myself capable of doing. Sometimes my opinions run away with me [sorry if I p**sed anyone off, wasn't my intent]

Quote:
And this is probably why they are not implementing hardware mouse. Because they want players - regardless of whether they are on console or computer to be on equal footing.


"There is unrest in the forest, there is trouble with the trees, for the maples want more sunlight and the oaks ignore their pleas"


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#97 Aug 19 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus wrote:
yeah but it is also a console game. It was always meant to be a console game as well as a PC game. It isn't just a PC game. There is a difference. And if it ends up being anything like XI you won't need a gamepad. Keyboard should be all you need in the end.


Unfortunately a lot of times doing things with a keyboard is even slower than with a gamepad. There's just no substitute for a mouse when it comes to camera controls.

Having said this I would like to point out that I played FFXI for 4 years with just a keyboard (mouse in that game was kind of a liability). FFXI wasn't the first MMO I'd played but it was the first one I took at all seriously and I managed to make the keyboard-only setup work. Since then I've played other games, and I've come to realize what a handicap I was under being limited to keyboard controls.

As to FFXIV being a console game as well. Yeah ok, that's fine, that's still not a reason for lack of proper mouse control on the PC version. Once again, if Tanaka-san had stated that they did that on purpose, I'd actually be fine with it (I wouldn't like it, but it would at least be a reason); he didn't say that, he said he didn't see the need for a hardware mouse and that it wasn't planned. This tells me that the decision never even crossed his mind, so he didn't not do it just to make console players be on an even footing with the PC crowd, he didn't do it because he never considered it and isn't terribly interested in considering it now (btw FFXI has hardware mouse support.. poor though it be).
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#98 Aug 19 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I hate using the mouse when I could instead just be using the keyboard only. Gamepads are fine and dandy, but they never match the performance of a keyboard. They're good for when you're being leisurely and/or want to play while in a weird posture like laying down.

Just give me the control scheme of ffxi and I'll be happy. But what I really want is actual non-third party customization. What I don't want is a control scheme like WoW had, where I was forced to use the mouse at all times.

If SE doesn't put out, I'll probably end up looking into attempting to make a program that allows you to customize your own inputs.
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#99 Aug 19 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
USB mouse, meet USB port on the PS3. Now we're all on equal footing!
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#100 Aug 19 2010 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
Leve's aren't worth doing unless you're getting the gil/item rewards, so I don't see how imposing cooldowns is going to encourage people to group instead of just grinding solo.

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Pages upon Pages of angry rants about them, and Square Enix just decides to ignore all of this.
People have been posting pages and pages of retarded **** as well
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#101 Aug 19 2010 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
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It's possible that they are unwilling to add an AH for fear of RMT abusing it like on FFXI, they can probably counter them more easily the way they are doing it. They also complained a lot about the amount of work involved in keeping the economy stable etc, I'm sure they will want to try to negate that as much as possible this time.

Maybe the software mouse and indeed rather laggy controls are also to counter something that was rather rife on FFXI, botting. On FFXI you could get away with a lot because there were no good check systems in the game, I would bet that won't be the case on 14. I can't think of any good reasons they would implement a software mouse other than what I mentioned.

You could say it would be stupid for Square to counter these things at the expense of the playerbase....but thats exactly how they went about it on FFXI.
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