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Sorry for posting another one of these.. [computer related]Follow

#1 Aug 18 2010 at 5:09 PM Rating: Default
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Hi. Been geeking out about this game for a week or so now..

Anyway, I'm looking to upgrade my graphics card for this.
I got a new PC last year [June 09] which, I think is still pretty good. But the Video card is kind of a bottleneck, and I'm looking to upgrade it.

I'm posting to ask about what level card my system can handle w/ the currant power supply and motherboard, and what kind of card would make good use of the processing and ram that I have.

Here is what I have:


Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 3.0GHz

8gb ram. 4x 2gb [viper brand]

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

GeForce 9800GT 1GB of Vram

Motherboard: ASUS P5QL/EPU

Power supply: Rosewill performance RP600V2-S-SL [600w I think. will link to it so people can see]

http://www.rosewill.com/products/390/productDetail.htm



I can't SLI with this motherboard which is something I was very disappointed to find out. I left out other details that I didn't think were important. Feel free to ask though, if anyone wants to know anything specific about the system.

I may be able to get a good deal on a GTX260 896mb card [under $100]. So that's one thing I'm looking at. I'm also strongly considering going for something better along the lines of a GTX 460 or 465 [which I can get for $200 or 225 on eBay respectively].

I'd like to know the pro's and con's of these cards, and which ones might work better with my particular setup.

I'd like to upgrade my graphics card without switching out any other parts, so please let me know if any of the higher level cards would cause problems for my system. I'd like to get something safe but with performance that's in line with the processing and ram that I have.
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#2 Aug 18 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Default
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You will most likely need a bigger power supply unit. But I'm not entirely sure. Only other thing I wana add is IMO, your CPU is guna bottleneck hard once you get past a GTS 250 or further.
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#3 Aug 18 2010 at 5:27 PM Rating: Good
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JonnyWolf wrote:
Hi. Been geeking out about this game for a week or so now..

Anyway, I'm looking to upgrade my graphics card for this.
I got a new PC last year [June 09] which, I think is still pretty good. But the Video card is kind of a bottleneck, and I'm looking to upgrade it.

I'm posting to ask about what level card my system can handle w/ the currant power supply and motherboard, and what kind of card would make good use of the processing and ram that I have.

Here is what I have:


Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 3.0GHz

8gb ram. 4x 2gb [viper brand]

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

GeForce 9800GT 1GB of Vram

Motherboard: ASUS P5QL/EPU

Power supply: Rosewill performance RP600V2-S-SL [600w I think. will link to it so people can see]

http://www.rosewill.com/products/390/productDetail.htm



I can't SLI with this motherboard which is something I was very disappointed to find out. I left out other details that I didn't think were important. Feel free to ask though, if anyone wants to know anything specific about the system.

I may be able to get a good deal on a GTX260 896mb card [under $100]. So that's one thing I'm looking at. I'm also strongly considering going for something better along the lines of a GTX 460 or 465 [which I can get for $200 or 225 on eBay respectively].

I'd like to know the pro's and con's of these cards, and which ones might work better with my particular setup.

I'd like to upgrade my graphics card without switching out any other parts, so please let me know if any of the higher level cards would cause problems for my system. I'd like to get something safe but with performance that's in line with the processing and ram that I have.


I think you could safely upgrade to a Radeon HD 5770 without needing to replace your PSU. Maybe a GTX 460. Anything beyond that I don't think I'd trust on a 600W.
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#4 Aug 18 2010 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Trying to decide between 260 and 460 at this point.

I have about 15min left to take advantage of possibly getting a 260 for ~$90.

I rather go with the 460 though, I'm not sure which is a better choice (price aside).
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#5 Aug 18 2010 at 6:05 PM Rating: Decent
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The 460 is a much better choice, how old is your PSU and how much usage? You are going to be pushing not having enough power if it is any older than 2 years.
#6 Aug 18 2010 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
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as indicated in the OP, my system is a year old ~13 months of use.

and I linked to the specific PSU I have.
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#7 Aug 18 2010 at 6:09 PM Rating: Good
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Personally i got a GTX 460 and love it, only a 768mb though. but Im really impressed with it. the 1 gigs need a 550watt PSU and the 768 need a 450w+, so you should be good with either just keep an eye on teh heat if you get a 1 gig one.
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#8 Aug 18 2010 at 6:25 PM Rating: Good
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460 is better, but the difference isn't spectacular.

PS, your PSU isn't the greatest.
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#9 Aug 18 2010 at 6:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
JonnyWolf wrote:
Hi. Been geeking out about this game for a week or so now..

Anyway, I'm looking to upgrade my graphics card for this.
I got a new PC last year [June 09] which, I think is still pretty good. But the Video card is kind of a bottleneck, and I'm looking to upgrade it.

I'm posting to ask about what level card my system can handle w/ the currant power supply and motherboard, and what kind of card would make good use of the processing and ram that I have.

Here is what I have:


Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 3.0GHz

8gb ram. 4x 2gb [viper brand]

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

GeForce 9800GT 1GB of Vram

Motherboard: ASUS P5QL/EPU

Power supply: Rosewill performance RP600V2-S-SL [600w I think. will link to it so people can see]

http://www.rosewill.com/products/390/productDetail.htm



I can't SLI with this motherboard which is something I was very disappointed to find out. I left out other details that I didn't think were important. Feel free to ask though, if anyone wants to know anything specific about the system.

I may be able to get a good deal on a GTX260 896mb card [under $100]. So that's one thing I'm looking at. I'm also strongly considering going for something better along the lines of a GTX 460 or 465 [which I can get for $200 or 225 on eBay respectively].

I'd like to know the pro's and con's of these cards, and which ones might work better with my particular setup.

I'd like to upgrade my graphics card without switching out any other parts, so please let me know if any of the higher level cards would cause problems for my system. I'd like to get something safe but with performance that's in line with the processing and ram that I have.


I think you could safely upgrade to a Radeon HD 5770 without needing to replace your PSU. Maybe a GTX 460. Anything beyond that I don't think I'd trust on a 600W.


Technically he could put a 5870 on that but the PSU would have to be one that can actually supply 600W under normal operation. Many PSU's list the absolute maximum you can pull from the PSU before it catches on fire as it's watt rating and when you check the specs you see that safe operation is actually 100 or more watts below that. Personally I would steer clear of any piece of equipment that outright lies about it's specs like that.

FYI Antec is reliable, and their replacement policy is pretty good. The only Antec supply I have even seen go bad was one in my brother's computer. His cat slept behind his PC for a few years until cat hair completely clogged it and it finally died. He sent it back (was still in warranty) and they sent him a newer (and better) model PSU as a replacement. Apparently "death by giant hairball" doesn't void the warranty.

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 9:53pm by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#10 Aug 18 2010 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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ok, that other deal thing I'd mentioned didn't exactly pan out.

So its the 260 for $140, or the 460 for $200.

I think I'm leaning toward the 460 as it seems that this is the best card my system can handle.

The responses I'm getting here, and from other sources all seem to be saying that 'maybe' or 'probably' your system can handle it. But not a higher card. So since this is the best one I can get, I'm gonna just go with it, and hope it doesn't cause any technical problems.

A few more questions though:

Quote:
Personally i got a GTX 460 and love it, only a 768mb though. but Im really impressed with it. the 1 gigs need a 550watt PSU and the 768 need a 450w+, so you should be good with either just keep an eye on teh heat if you get a 1 gig one.


So sticking with the 768mb one would be safer in my situation than?

Also, I never knew the differences between the different brands for the same model cards. it seems I have a few different options for the same card and price in this case [EVGA, Palit, Asus, ect]. Is this something I should be concerned about? Or are they all basically the same?

One more thing;

Quote:
Only other thing I wana add is IMO, your CPU is guna bottleneck hard once you get past a GTS 250 or further.


Is this true? I thought I had a good processor :\ . the Q9650 is the best intel quad core as far as I know. You're telling me I need an i7 to make good use of anything past a gts250? Or do I have this all wrong?
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#11 Aug 18 2010 at 7:07 PM Rating: Good
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Don't worry about your CPU...although I would suggest overclocking it. I run the same exact CPU you have with a 460 and I can get 5000 on low or a little over 3000 on high. If there is a bottleneck on high it doesn't matter. I am running the beta beautifully with no slow down to speak of with almost maxed settings at 1920x1080 resolution. My overclock is conservative for this cpu at 3.75 ghz.

I have seen the cpu get as high as 4.25 ghz...but save yourself some stability headaches and just keep it relatively low.

Edited, Aug 18th 2010 9:08pm by WhtxKorean
#12 Aug 18 2010 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
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now I'm torn between the 768mb and 1gb versions.

I've been reading that the 1gb version performs noticeably better, and is a much better value.

But for my system with my PSU, the 768mg might just be much safer.

Anyone here think I'd need to worry about putting the gtx460 1gb into my system??


Also, considering how much ram my system has (8gb is more than most people get from what I can tell) would it be a good idea to use some of that for my GPU? I've only vaguely heard about people doing this, and don't know what it's called, or how to do it. Would it benefit my system? Feel free to educate me.
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#13 Aug 18 2010 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
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JonnyWolf wrote:
now I'm torn between the 768mb and 1gb versions.

I've been reading that the 1gb version performs noticeably better, and is a much better value.

But for my system with my PSU, the 768mg might just be much safer.

Anyone here think I'd need to worry about putting the gtx460 1gb into my system??


Also, considering how much ram my system has (8gb is more than most people get from what I can tell) would it be a good idea to use some of that for my GPU? I've only vaguely heard about people doing this, and don't know what it's called, or how to do it. Would it benefit my system? Feel free to educate me.


The 1gig card is better by about 15-25% from waht ive read. My power supply i use is a 500w (peaks at 550) and the video card im using 768mb.. needs a 450. You should be good with a 1G card as long you have good cooling. My pc is in my attic bedroom wich gets REALLY warm durign the day lol, still nop issues so far, but then again im not playing 14 yet. Personally i think id do the 1gig if i could myself ;) but in the end... up to you.
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#14 Aug 18 2010 at 9:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Actually None of the good 5000 series cards pull a ton of power

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/02/25/ati-radeon-hd-5830-1gb-review/8

At load...

5770 - 213 watts
5850 - 238 watts
5830 - 243 watts
5870 - 268 watts

#15 Aug 18 2010 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
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Not sure what a gtx 460 pulls for amps but make sure your 12v rail can handle it.

~Looks like its 24v, so I think thats a go. Not really experienced in combined rails amperage.

Edited, Aug 19th 2010 12:16am by levauron
#16 Aug 19 2010 at 6:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Since we basically have the same setup I will link to you the PSU I am using. It is incredibly cheap and is working like a champ with my system! http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=ESTAR680XGD&cat=PWR

I would suggest upgrading, the 1gb version is worth it I feel.
#17 Aug 19 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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$25 to upgarde my PSU to one that will support a high end system. Sounds too good to be true.

These were the two reviews I found for this on Amazon;

Quote:

"Warning!!! This crappy PSU literally exploded (sparks and smoke) half an hour after I started playing Crysis at full resolution. It is a 680W PSU, but it is a joke. It cannot withstand an nVidia GTS250 video card; it just burned. Buy a real PSU: Corsair, Thermaltake, OCZ, etc."


and

Quote:
"I got this power supply cuz its cheap, but it only goes for 30 mins!
All I know is the power supply blows up and burns my motherboard & CPU!
Echo Star's website don't have a telephone number to call and they never reply the emails that I sent, which I sent 20 + emails.
Never! Never use Echo Star power supply!!! "


Among other things I read when googling it.

I don't mean to rag on the poster that recommended this. It worked for him and I appreciate his post here. But I figured I should post this for anyone that might have looked at the link and just bought it right off the bat. I might have at that price. I'm sure that it would work for alot of people with out problems, but I'm guessing that statistically, the rate of incidence is reletively higher with this PSU than other proper brand ones that would be used to run a system like mine.

After reading everyones posts, and researching info and prices, I'm just going to go get the 1gb 460 at a Microcenter near me and hope there are no problems with running it on my system. I can't find any significant discount for this online, but it does still seem like the best card for me to get. that, and I get to grill the technicians at Microcenter because I still can't figure out what brand card I'd want.

Thanks for all the posts. I'll let you all know how it works.
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#18 Aug 19 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I would definitely suggest the 1GB over the 768MB, in terms of performance strictly. They don't seem to run much hotter, louder, or with too much power consumption. *edit* I would like to rescind, after performing the PSU calc unless you want to upgrade PSU go with the 768MB.

never heard of echostar, but I think sticking with a well known brand is a good idea, especially since any problems with your PSU could short more than just the PSU. Just an FYI I ran my PSU calc and here were the specs:


Recommended Wattage: 537W
12v A: 36A


You are really on the ragged edge of it not being enough power to supply your GPU. Your 12v rail supplies a combined 35A of power. CPU calc is showing required of 36A. I personally would not risk it and I personally would purchase a different PSU.

Edited, Aug 19th 2010 4:22pm by burtonsnow
#19 Aug 19 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll let you know if my PSU blows up. :) They have had to sell more than 2 of these units...but all I can find are those two reviews you quoted. with the 26amps on the 12V I have my GTX 460 (overclocked), 2 hard drives, an optical drive, 2 120mm Fans, 3 80mm fans, an aftermarket cpu cooler, and a pci card. CPU is overclocked. It has been on 12 hours a day for about 3 weeks, but if you have the money I would suggest getting a more well known brand...I didn't have the money!
#20 Aug 19 2010 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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The GTX 460 1GB not only has more memory onboard, but it also has a larger memory bus (256 vs 192) so it is faster all the way around.

Here is a refurbished GTX 260 that is OC'd for $110:

http://www.unityelectronics.com/products/6067/BFG_nVIDIA_GeForce_GTX_260_896MB_448_bit_GDDR3_PCI_Express_2_0_HDCP_Ready_SLI_Video_Card_BFGEGTX260MC896OCDE_Refurbished

I have a much lesser CPU than you so I am going with the much cheaper GTX 260. I am not sure if your CPU would bottleneck a GTX 460 or not.
#21 Aug 19 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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WhtxKorean wrote:
I'll let you know if my PSU blows up. :) They have had to sell more than 2 of these units...but all I can find are those two reviews you quoted. with the 26amps on the 12V I have my GTX 460 (overclocked), 2 hard drives, an optical drive, 2 120mm Fans, 3 80mm fans, an aftermarket cpu cooler, and a pci card. CPU is overclocked. It has been on 12 hours a day for about 3 weeks, but if you have the money I would suggest getting a more well known brand...I didn't have the money!


This is what I like to refer to as playing with fire. Your PSU might be fine now but down the road once you start to hit some capacitor aging you could have some problems. BTW these ratings are just the minimum specs, meaning you could have got lucky and received a PSU that actually hit 30A. Either way I am giving you specs to keep you safe now and 2 years down the road after thousands of hours of uptime, both the PSU you have now and the one suggested do not give that extra room I like to include. Either way you should be fine going that route but I personally would bite the bullet and spend the extra $30.
#22 Aug 19 2010 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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Don't buy BFG.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/bfg_bails_its_customers_refuses_warranty_repairs

http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/bfg-stops-honoring-lifetime-warranties-of-graphics-cards-20100816/

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/14631-bfg-tech-no-longer-honoring-lifetime-warranties/

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1728060/nvidia-graphics-card-partner-refuses-honour-lifetime-warranty

From the last article linked:

Quote:
In a letter to one customer who sent in a BFG Tech graphics card, the firm said it was in the midst of "winding down and liquidating its business". It said that due to a "major supplier" not supporting its business, the company was unable to repair the card, returning it to the customer.

Earlier this year BFG Tech had said that it was leaving the graphics card game, though it promised that it would continue to honour warranties. At the time, the announcement mentioned that it would be focusing on power supply units and gaming machines. This letter does little to instill confidence in those looking to purchase anything further from it, however.
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#23 Aug 19 2010 at 4:00 PM Rating: Good
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I wondered how long it'd take for someone to mention the memory bus difference, well done Enshef. Yes, if you're getting a 460 get the 1 GB version.
Also no, a 260 will not be held back by your CPU, but an OC 460 might. OC your CPU a little and you'll be fine, although tbh you could just leave it as its not the end of the world at that difference.
I believe that NVIDIA cards suffer more from bottlenecking than ATI due to the memory bus difference, but as said a 460 isn't as bad as say a 470 or 480 in this case.

I compare cheap PSU failures with aeroplane crashes. It might not happen and you're lucky if it never does, but if it ever does, you will be fubar'ed. With that said it's just stupid to entrust your system, worth hundreds of pounds/dollars to a PoS PSU to save a buck or two. A decent PSU will mean a happier more stable machine, will generally protect your system in a power spike, be more efficient and also is one off the things you can carry over to your next upgrade. Think of it as an investment and buy the best you can afford.

Going back to the card issue get a 460 and you can always SLI another when you upgrade in the future.
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