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Surplus EXP thought it was goneFollow

#1 Aug 20 2010 at 7:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I thought they might have patched it out cause mine went away for a level or so, but its back :/
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#2 Aug 20 2010 at 7:27 PM Rating: Good
Nope it's not gone. I got it starting at rank 13 lancer.

It seems to be random how\when folks start getting it. Lots of theories flying around the Beta forums.

I was able to get rid of it by switching to another class for a while and getting a few level ups over a few days.



For those not yet in the know: Surplus EXP appears to be a system designed to reduce Class Points after having been leveling on a job "too long". You gain Class Points, EXP, and Surplus Points. It appears to start at 10% base Class Points, and purportedly goes higher and higher the longer you continue to grind.

The weird thing is that after so much Surplus Points, you actually gain Surplus Rank levels as if it were a class or something. Nobody really understands this system fully, and some have grinded right to level 20 without getting it.
#3 Aug 20 2010 at 7:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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F: Tell why you decided to implement Fatigue and Latency (note: I really don't know how to translate that, but it's something in-game to keep you from playing too long at a time on one class).

DK: We'd like you to think of it as a reward to those players who don't have much time to commit to the game. Those hardcore players out there might think it's a little unfair, but the main concept behind it is that you don't need to put in massive amounts of time to enjoy the game.


F: Still though, there are a lot of disgruntled looks coming from those hardcore gamers.

DK: For those who have more time on their hands, they'll be able to try out all the various classes. Fatigue doesn't carry over when you change weapons, so we hope that they'll try out not just battle-oriented classes but maybe some crafting or gathering ones as well. So for those who end up with many high-level classes, they'll have more choices when it comes to any situation, whether solo or party play.



from what i read it's in the game for good... i was kinda hopeing it was just to slow down beta players
#4 Aug 20 2010 at 7:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't like the name they're given it. "Surplus EXP" sounds likes "extra exp" to me. It wouldn't be so bad if there was a way to collect it later.

I wonder if they've thought about the casual player that can only play for 6-8 hours one or two days a week.

If they want to limit play time in any way shape or form, they need to charge less per month.

I think other MMO's tried this before and it failed to the max.
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#5 Aug 20 2010 at 7:41 PM Rating: Good
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It's a Fatigue mechanic. It does go away after time, but i'm not too sure how fair it is. It's one thing to make the game casual friendly, but it's an entirely different animal when your punishing hard core players. We will have to see how bad it is in retail though. Let's be honest... a 15 conjurer is going to be gimped compared to a 15 CON /10 THM compared to a 15 CON / 10THM / 6 GLD anyway. I think we will have to see how it plays out a bit before we all get up in arms about it. Just my opinion on it.
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#6 Aug 20 2010 at 7:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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The problem is that not everyone is going to want to level every class. Why would you punish people like that?

My hope is that this is just SE's way of slowing progress until they get around to implementing end game content and will be removed after they do so. However, if it stays in its current form that's still pretty crappy...
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#7 Aug 20 2010 at 7:52 PM Rating: Good
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It's not a matter of leveling every class. In my experience, the surplus goes away after a couple of days. Theoretically, you can level 2 classes, and never be bothered with surplus XP. However, if you only level 2 classes in FF XIV, you are going to be super gimped. The way the abilities are spread out, it will only hurt you if you don't level multiple classes.
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#8 Aug 20 2010 at 8:01 PM Rating: Decent
When you say 48 hours, I hope that is game time and not actual time.
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#9 Aug 20 2010 at 8:02 PM Rating: Good
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That's true, they will be slightly gimped compared to people who have every class leveled, but like I said not everyone wants to play all the classes and that's their business. I knew people in FFXI who only leveled mage jobs, or only leveled melee jobs. They're already missing out on perhaps a skill or 2 they might use from a melee job, why add a punishment on top of that in the form of gimp exp?

If this is in place to help casuals not get left behind by the hardcores, why can't they just add bonus exp as a reward for not playing as much instead of punishing people who do. But as far as I can tell it just looks like a way to hinder people from reaching max level fast because they don't have any endgame content yet.
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#10 Aug 20 2010 at 8:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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If this is in place to help casuals not get left behind by the hardcores, why can't they just add bonus exp as a reward for not playing as much instead of punishing people who do. But as far as I can tell it just looks like a way to hinder people from reaching max level fast because they don't have any endgame content yet.


I like that idea. How about, for being logged off for 48 hours you gain bonus exp? That would help the casuals.
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#11 Aug 20 2010 at 8:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Cadant wrote:
That's true, they will be slightly gimped compared to people who have every class leveled, but like I said not everyone wants to play all the classes and that's their business. I knew people in FFXI who only leveled mage jobs, or only leveled melee jobs. They're already missing out on perhaps a skill or 2 they might use from a melee job, why add a punishment on top of that in the form of gimp exp?

If this is in place to help casuals not get left behind by the hardcores, why can't they just add bonus exp as a reward for not playing as much instead of punishing people who do. But as far as I can tell it just looks like a way to hinder people from reaching max level fast because they don't have any endgame content yet.


I won't ever tell people how to play any game. This isn't anything like FF XI. I only had 2 75 jobs in FFXI and i played it for 6 years. Believe me, i understand. All i'm saying is that this game is so different, that you are going to want to level multiple classes, just to make the class that you want. I just don't think it's a big deal.

My Marauder is a blast to play. I love it. I loved it even more when i got cure from CON, and the regen ability from THM. I got Skewer from LNC, that hits everything in front of me, and Haymaker from PUG, that lets me get a fre hit in if i evade an attack.

The skills are so spread out, that i think most people will want to level multi classes, even if they thought the wouldn't want too.
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#12 Aug 20 2010 at 8:12 PM Rating: Good
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VayMasters wrote:
Quote:
If this is in place to help casuals not get left behind by the hardcores, why can't they just add bonus exp as a reward for not playing as much instead of punishing people who do. But as far as I can tell it just looks like a way to hinder people from reaching max level fast because they don't have any endgame content yet.


I like that idea. How about, for being logged off for 48 hours you gain bonus exp? That would help the casuals.


Good ole rested exp. They didnt choose to go that route unfortunately.
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#13 Aug 20 2010 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
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ukikithemonkey wrote:
When you say 48 hours, I hope that is game time and not actual time.
I didn't actually count the hours. It is Beta afterall. I have been trying all sorts of things. I just noticed, that after i spent a couplee of days on goldsmithing, my surplus xp was gone on my marauder.
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#14 Aug 20 2010 at 9:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
VayMasters wrote:
Quote:
If this is in place to help casuals not get left behind by the hardcores, why can't they just add bonus exp as a reward for not playing as much instead of punishing people who do. But as far as I can tell it just looks like a way to hinder people from reaching max level fast because they don't have any endgame content yet.


I like that idea. How about, for being logged off for 48 hours you gain bonus exp? That would help the casuals.


Good ole rested exp. They didnt choose to go that route unfortunately.


Rested exp is a fine concept for helping out people with less time to play... though it looks like they've gone in a more negative direction... Instead of helping people who play less, they've decided to punish people for playing more... this to me does not seem like a good solution... I shall add it to the pile of not-so-good solutions to common problems
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#15 Aug 20 2010 at 9:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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The people on the NA beta forums all hate the idea of having it at release. Although they have been vocal for a long time about the lack of hardware mouse and various different UI issues so I seriously doubt SE will care. Some of what SE is planning I can somewhat agree with if I think about it in a different way, but not their laziness for no search feature on the market ward, and not this. I'm not mad about their decision for no AH, but what plausible explanation is there for having no search function on the market ward for release? lol...

Anyways, from the normal NA fan sites or places like lolgamefaqs I've seen maybe a dozen people who aren't upset about surplus. I hope all the negativity is incentive enough for them to reconsider. I wish I could read Japanese to see what they think about the idea though :/
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#16 Aug 20 2010 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
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At first glance yes, though that might and might not be true though. They may have the exp set higher using this fatigue "Surplus" system, than it would be if they used the rested exp system, same end result, but it just looks different.

I could be wrong, since I don't know all of the specifics of this "Surplus" system.
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#17 Aug 20 2010 at 10:21 PM Rating: Decent
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This seems totally backwards to me. In Age of Conan they had an offline leveling system where for every 4 days that your account was active and paid for you got 1 level to put towards any character that was at least level 30 {lvl cap is 80}.But this is SE afterall...the longer it takes for you to level up, the more money they make.Can't wait to see if there's gonna be limit break quests...
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#18 Aug 21 2010 at 1:03 AM Rating: Default
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It's a Fatigue mechanic. It does go away after time, but i'm not too sure how fair it is. It's one thing to make the game casual friendly, but it's an entirely different animal when your punishing hard core players.


If you run an MMO casual gamers are your desired type of player, hardcore always on players are something you want to discourage. Both types pay the same fees but hardcore players cause server congestion and basically cost you more money because of increased server load and costs assosciated with it.

Square don't actually want us to be on a lot, they want us to be on just enough to keep us paying. If you paid more based on time online then hardcore would be the best players you can get, otherwise they are more an annoying drain on resources.

Squares experience with FFXI seems to be pushing all kinds of silly things, in a way this game would of been better if it was their first one. They are worrying about too many other outside factors like RMT, botting, server congestion etc aside from just making a good game.
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#19 Aug 21 2010 at 1:12 AM Rating: Excellent
preludes wrote:
Both types pay the same fees but hardcore players cause server congestion


Smiley: disappointed
I'm really fighting myself not to flame you for this. Suffice it to say, this is asinine.
#20 Aug 21 2010 at 3:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
Quote:
It's a Fatigue mechanic. It does go away after time, but i'm not too sure how fair it is. It's one thing to make the game casual friendly, but it's an entirely different animal when your punishing hard core players.


If you run an MMO casual gamers are your desired type of player, hardcore always on players are something you want to discourage. Both types pay the same fees but hardcore players cause server congestion and basically cost you more money because of increased server load and costs assosciated with it.

Square don't actually want us to be on a lot, they want us to be on just enough to keep us paying. If you paid more based on time online then hardcore would be the best players you can get, otherwise they are more an annoying drain on resources.

Squares experience with FFXI seems to be pushing all kinds of silly things, in a way this game would of been better if it was their first one. They are worrying about too many other outside factors like RMT, botting, server congestion etc aside from just making a good game.


Paying customers want to use a service they're paying a monthly fee for? What a bunch of ********. How dare they expect to do that?

While we're at it, your TV provider should block channels on your TV if you watch the same channels too much. Wouldn't want our customers getting burned out now.

And hey, let's throttle ISP bandwidth too. If someone is online more than 3-4 hours a day, we'll just slowly reduce their connection speed. I know they're paying a monthly fee, but they're hogging our server resources.

And cell phone providers should have telephone calls cut out after the first 500 minutes, and text messaging should only send every other word after the first 500 messages and every 4th word after 750. Wouldn't want our paying customers using up our precious resources; however will we make money?
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#21 Aug 21 2010 at 4:33 AM Rating: Default
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In FFXI you were forced to level a subjob to complement your main job. Isn't it the same here? I think i figured it out!! This isnt a way to punish hardcore players, this is actually punishing casual players. The reason behind this is that, similar to a subjob, it strengthens your character because u get to use abilities from other classes.

Its best to think of it as forcing u to have a subjob in a way, ya?
#22 Aug 21 2010 at 5:09 AM Rating: Decent
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To a point it does suck that you can't level just 1 job, but I do see how it would help play the game the way SE may intend for it to be played. If you intend to be a tank class you are going have to level one job for cure another for provoke and yet another for shock spikes since that seems to be a nice stun effect for tanks.

I don't know what they are making the rank caps or the physical caps but it seems as if what ever rank xp you get you also get physical xp also. So, leveling multiple jobs/crafts is still going to get your physical lever up.

I don't really see this as much of a way to give the casual game an advantage though. They still need to other jobs also. I doubt that someone would be much good in party or even solo without the other jobs support. How good do you think you could solo at higher levels without some of the abilities and lower stats? From what I have seen some of the high level mobs have some badass moves and can hit for high numbers.

Like some of the other threads said, if you want to play a game like FFXI then just play it but I for one see this as another attempt at making this MMO a bit different from the last. Me personally would kick you out of my party or not even invite you at all if you were a level 30whm/01blm in FFXI. To me it would be saying you're lazy, gilseller, or a prick that don't care if you help the party out or not.

Of course, these are just my opinions and everyone knows the saying bout opinions and ********.
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#23 Aug 21 2010 at 5:33 AM Rating: Decent
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And hey, let's throttle ISP bandwidth too. If someone is online more than 3-4 hours a day, we'll just slowly reduce their connection speed. I know they're paying a monthly fee, but they're hogging our server resources.


In the UK they already do this on a lot of providers lol If you download too much in a month they throttle your connection back and put you on that for a perdiod of time, if you do it too much they actually cancel your service or just leave on the throttled ****** servce with other heavy downloaders >_>

I know there is nothing they can do on an MMO to counter players like that I just meant if they could push the mindset to not stay on for 10+ hours a day it's better for them to be able to run the the servers without having to worry about having buffer capacity to deal with those kinds of players so others get to log on too. Remember the waiting Queues on WoW when it first came out? and how WoW actively drops you if you idle for 20 mins?
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#24 Aug 21 2010 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm sure there will be other things to do in the game besides grinding one class up to the cap as fast as you can.
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#25 Aug 21 2010 at 9:53 AM Rating: Default
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WaxyMilanders wrote:
I'm sure there will be other things to do in the game besides grinding one class up to the cap as fast as you can.


This.


As far as SE "punishing" hardcore players, naw... to me it sounds like SE is trying to be a "responsible" game maker by looking at all the FACTS and stigmas of MMO's. "MOST" People who play MMO's tend to spend WAAAAAY too much time playing them, and tend to get tied up in the grind thinking that they are accomplishing something. SE is just adding something to:

1.) Keep people from fast pace grinding to get to "Top Level" and then start begging for more content, or get bored too quick and quit the game.
2.) Slow RMT activities. (There WILL be RMT unfortunately ... trust that)
3.) Guide players to trying out the many things the game has to offer.
4.) Give players an "incentive" to take a break from the game once in a while.

All in all, those who are complaining about the "surplus" system, are the very ones who will end up being addicted to the game. If you balance your time away from the game, then the surplus system won't affect you.

With that said,

GO OUTSIDE AND PLAY KIDS!!!
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#26 Aug 21 2010 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
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Why not add a resting bonus instead of the "Surplus"? It's fair to the hardcore but helps the casual.
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#27 Aug 21 2010 at 10:15 AM Rating: Decent
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And hey, let's throttle ISP bandwidth too. If someone is online more than 3-4 hours a day, we'll just slowly reduce their connection speed. I know they're paying a monthly fee, but they're hogging our server resources.

And cell phone providers should have telephone calls cut out after the first 500 minutes, and text messaging should only send every other word after the first 500 messages and every 4th word after 750. Wouldn't want our paying customers using up our precious resources; however will we make money?
Are we talking about SE or ATT? HA!
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#28 Aug 21 2010 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
This.


As far as SE "punishing" hardcore players, naw... to me it sounds like SE is trying to be a "responsible" game maker by looking at all the FACTS and stigmas of MMO's. "MOST" People who play MMO's tend to spend WAAAAAY too much time playing them, and tend to get tied up in the grind thinking that they are accomplishing something. SE is just adding something to:

1.) Keep people from fast pace grinding to get to "Top Level" and then start begging for more content, or get bored too quick and quit the game.
2.) Slow RMT activities. (There WILL be RMT unfortunately ... trust that)
3.) Guide players to trying out the many things the game has to offer.
4.) Give players an "incentive" to take a break from the game once in a while.

All in all, those who are complaining about the "surplus" system, are the very ones who will end up being addicted to the game. If you balance your time away from the game, then the surplus system won't affect you.

With that said,

GO OUTSIDE AND PLAY KIDS!!! :)


First of all don't kid yourself.

This Surplus skill has nothing to do with monitoring the play time of players. If it did it would be on all of your classes until you logged out, instead of just the one class you grinded on. They even stated that they want you to level other classes, they didn't say they wanted you to log off the game. It's not an incentive to get off the game if your surplus skill lowers by leveling other classes. This is all about not wanting players to level to the cap too fast, and this is the wrong way to go about it. It also doesn't slow Rmt at all, they will just do other stuff to lower there surplus skill like level a craft. Its more then one way to make gil in a MMO.

Also the game system has nothing to do with Surplus skill as well. You can be good at a role in the game without skills from other classes. Don't forget that a lot of skills will have more tiers to them as you level up (thats not in the beta). For example conjurer will get cure 2, and cure 3 etc, so it necessarily wouldn't need cure from thm, along with other spells. All classes will be standalone classes.

Also, there doesn't need to be any motivation to get other skills because people will already get other skills to max / min the classes (but that doesn't mean the classes cant fully function alone). Surplus skill is not a motivation to get more skills, although if it goes down by leveling other classes then it will be more of a necessity to hardcore players and not motivation. Hardcore players have motivation enough to level up other classes to max/min there classes.



Lets call it what it is, surplus skill is in the game to stop players from leveling to the cap too fast. It is in no way a time manager, it also isn't motivation to hardcore players to level other classes. It is a time-sink (to hardcore players) it doesn't add motivation it adds a necessity. Hardcore players were already motivated because of a more powerful thing which is called max/min. This is just so people don't reach the cap too fast, and its many ways they could of solved that problem without obviously punishing hardcore players.


Edited, Aug 21st 2010 12:27pm by HocusP

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 12:31pm by HocusP
#29 Aug 21 2010 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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HocusP wrote:
This is just so people don't reach the cap too fast, and its many ways they could of solved that problem without obviously punishing hardcore players.



Like what?

I'm not saying you're not right, and that this isn't SE's attempt to slow down those that want to cap fast, I'm just curious what solutions you've considered.
#30 Aug 21 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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I'm going to play devil's advocate here. So what if a players choses to get to lvl50 in a week? They can still level another job after that, right? Whether it takes them 200 hours to level all jobs to 50 separate or alternate it's still going to take 200 hours. Only thing "Surplus" is going to do is annoy that player to the point where they quit simply because they are tired of switching jobs. Now yes, a person might quit once they get to lvl50 and find no end game in sight but have a better chance of staying around doing something else till more game options open up.

As someone who is going to be a casual player, surplus won't benefit me at all. Rather it'll just hurt players who have excess time on their hands and chose to play a single job they are enjoying.
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#31 Aug 21 2010 at 12:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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jayfly wrote:
WaxyMilanders wrote:
I'm sure there will be other things to do in the game besides grinding one class up to the cap as fast as you can.


This.


As far as SE "punishing" hardcore players, naw... to me it sounds like SE is trying to be a "responsible" game maker by looking at all the FACTS and stigmas of MMO's. "MOST" People who play MMO's tend to spend WAAAAAY too much time playing them, and tend to get tied up in the grind thinking that they are accomplishing something. SE is just adding something to:

1.) Keep people from fast pace grinding to get to "Top Level" and then start begging for more content, or get bored too quick and quit the game.
2.) Slow RMT activities. (There WILL be RMT unfortunately ... trust that)
3.) Guide players to trying out the many things the game has to offer.
4.) Give players an "incentive" to take a break from the game once in a while.

All in all, those who are complaining about the "surplus" system, are the very ones who will end up being addicted to the game. If you balance your time away from the game, then the surplus system won't affect you.

With that said,

GO OUTSIDE AND PLAY KIDS!!!
:)


I love how you think you get to decide how other people should spend their time based on your opinions.

You say I spend too much time? I say you spend too little time. Where does that leave us? How about you play as much as you like and I'll play as much as I like.

You say this keeps people from grinding, what if they like that? Casual players have complained that they can't accomplish anything on THEIR timeframes and I agree that this iss a concern that needs addressing, but when it comes to OTHER PEOPLE who can't accomplish something on THEIR timeframes, that's bad?
You say it slows RMT, why not just ban the RMT instead of punishing actual players? ****, let's institute a nationwide 10:00 Curfew because it will slow crime rates.
The game has plenty to offer. Let people try the things they like. Forcing a player to do things they don't like because they CAN'T do the things they like is a pretty surefire way to make a player quit.
You seem to not grasp what an incentive is. They're not giving you an incentive to take a break; that would be something similar to rested XP where logging out helps you. This is the opposite of an incentive, it is a penalty. And the penalties only exist for playing the game in certain ways.
Remember that there are no playtime caps, there are just two penalties. There is a penalty for only playing one class AND there is a penalty for playing multiple classes. There are two ways to play the game, and YOU WILL BE PENALIZED FOR BOTH OF THEM.

Ultimately, I don't -like- "going outside". I play MMORPGs because it SAVES money. Going to clubs/bars is not for me. I do not enjoy playing sports. There is nothing "outside" that I enjoy doing.

I, and my fiancee, are the type of people who are factoring in "free wifi" when looking for a honeymoon destination. We are NOT outdoorsy types.

You never see someone going to parks and screaming "OH MY GOD WHY DON'T YOU LOSERS GO HOME AND PLAY VIDEO GAMES?!?!?"

Yes, for a monthly fee, I should be able to spend my time playing whatever class(es) I want to play.
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#32 Aug 21 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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True or False:

SE is a business and likes to make money: True.
SE benefits from you playing longer: True.
SE treats everything outside of Japan as a secondary/tertiary market: True.

With this mindframe, SE is out to make money and focus secondarily making a great game. I remember reading an article from around E3 where one of the developers, I don't remember his name right now, referred to NA/EU input as "opinionated", as in, they have a lot of ideas, but certainly not in the direction we'd like them. SE is going to throttle players as best they can because it is financially a good idea to keep people paying longer. It is in SE's best interests for SE to do it for as long as fanboys/girls are willing to pay for it. Square, EA, Blizz-Activision are all the same. They are all adding in micro-transactions and making things that were formally free, paid for. DLC available the moment something hits retail? Purchasing add-ins for extra $$$? It's happening and as long as people continue to pay for these things they will continue to enforce them and see how much more they can take. They are a corporation, that's what they are supposed to do because they are loyal to their shareholders, not their customers so long as they are willing to keep footing the bill.

Beta testers who are in right now need to be massively vocal, not treating this as a free trial. If 80% of the beta community is massively upset with a feature, and it still goes to retail. That says one thing: They. Are. Not. Listening. It falls on beta testers to stamp these features out and if they launch you have a choice to make. Support the companies poor decisions, or cancel your account(s) and/or pre-orders and let your money speak for you. It's a difficult thing to do since the market is really sh*tty for good games right now, but financial language is the only language S-E speaks right now.

Edit: Wow my 100th post.

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 12:29pm by desmar
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#33jayfly, Posted: Aug 21 2010 at 1:41 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Once again.... if the surplus system is a problem to you... then you spend too much time playing games.
#34 Aug 21 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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jayfly wrote:

Once again.... if the surplus system is a problem to you... then you spend too much time playing games.


Go read a book


See this is just asinine, borderline trolling.

You don't have to agree with him, but if you're going to disagree you could at least provide an argument other than "lawls nerd u sux"
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#35 Aug 21 2010 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
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Yes, for a monthly fee, I should be able to spend my time playing whatever class(es) I want to play.


It couldn't have been said any better.

I'm not going to jump to any conclusions since I just joined the beta (thanks Zam!), but if it's as bad as it sounds then SE will learn fast how much of a mistake a mechanic like that can be. It shouldn't be a surprise either since I hear the beta boards are going off about it too.
#36 Aug 21 2010 at 2:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Once again.... if the surplus system is a problem to you... then you spend too much time playing games.


Go read a book


You're the kind of person I hate. It is absolutely none of your or anyone's business how people spend their free time.

If you don't want to play the game for more than 2 hours at a time go a head and do something else. The rest of us are under no obligation to follow your schedule and you have no right to bad mouth the people that are happy to spend more of their own time playing a video game just because you think its wrong.

On topic:

I don't like the surplus EXP idea as it conflicts with the fact that a do most of my playtime in large chunks on the weekends. Its also going to cramp launch weekend for my friends and I who planned to go hardcore for the weekend and I'm sure were not alone on that one.
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#37 Aug 21 2010 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Like what?

I'm not saying you're not right, and that this isn't SE's attempt to slow down those that want to cap fast, I'm just curious what solutions you've considered.


I'm not a game developer but I will provide a few solutions.

1. They could just increase the amount of skill points it takes to level up if they think people are leveling to fast. This still wouldn't hurt casual gamers too much because everyone is on a 48 hour guildleve timer and you gain a superior amount of skill ups during guildleves than grinding random mobs. This just allow hardcore players to at least grind at a slower rate (when no guildleves is available) and still be making process.

2. Since players are allowed to share guildleves if they are scared of players grinding guildleves 24/7 and leveling too fast, they can simply lower the skill points a person gets once he/she has reached a certain number of guildleves. For example you still can help people on guildleves, but your skill point gains are halved after you have done 20 guildleves in a day. Thats just a random number but they can easily halve your skill ups during guildleves once you've done too many if they are scared people will spam guildleve and level too fast. This would still leave grinding random mobs a choice and would allow people still to progress, without leveling too fast.

3. They could simply add a lot of genkai like limit break quests, which is my personal favorite choice if I had to pick between these 3 or surplus skill. Only one limit break quest can be completed in a day, and at least this would feel like an accomplishment rather than a penalty. These quest can be rather challenging, it can require a boss battles (solo boss battles or party ones kind of like picking a guildleve difficult but instead it would automatically be scaled to your party size), and it would add fun while still accomplishing the goal of not letting people speed level in a day. They can start small at level 10 when players are still learning how to play, and be every 5 levels.

Side Note, Rested Exp would be an incentive to get off the game and not surplus skill

Also I'm sure there are many other things they could have done, that would stop players from leveling to cap too fast without obviously penalizing hardcore players.

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 4:11pm by HocusP
#38 Aug 21 2010 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Cherbr wrote:

On topic:

I don't like the surplus EXP idea as it conflicts with the fact that a do most of my playtime in large chunks on the weekends. Its also going to cramp launch weekend for my friends and I who planned to go hardcore for the weekend and I'm sure were not alone on that one.


I may or may not have plans with a few friends to get together and play for like 3 days straight.... several cases of bawls may or may not be involved..... just saying.
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#39 Aug 21 2010 at 8:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't think this has been said yet, but there is a potentially big flaw with the system if they do choose to keep it. Sure I won't be upset to level multiple classes at the start, but what happens if they start adding new classes after a while, and I've already leveled several others I've wanted to level? Do they penalize me for wanting to level a new class if I play regularly? We won't know what's going to happen until it happens, but there are things to keep under consideration.
#40 Aug 22 2010 at 2:26 AM Rating: Decent
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HocusP wrote:
[quote]This.



Lets call it what it is, surplus skill is in the game to stop players from leveling to the cap too fast. It is in no way a time manager, it also isn't motivation to hardcore players to level other classes. It is a time-sink (to hardcore players) it doesn't add motivation it adds a necessity. Hardcore players were already motivated because of a more powerful thing which is called max/min. This is just so people don't reach the cap too fast, and its many ways they could of solved that problem without obviously punishing hardcore players.


Edited, Aug 21st 2010 12:27pm by HocusP

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 12:31pm by HocusP


I have another idea. Maybe end game is not ready yet.

Aion suffered a lot of bad press when endgame was not ready for the first few players that reached the cap. They started talking very negatively and saying endgame is rubbish which probably led to a lot of people not bothering to reach the cap.

If you slow down the hardcore gamers - you make yourself time to fix endgame before players get there. Just a possibility.
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#41 Aug 22 2010 at 2:56 AM Rating: Good
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HallieXIV wrote:
HocusP wrote:
[quote]This.



Lets call it what it is, surplus skill is in the game to stop players from leveling to the cap too fast. It is in no way a time manager, it also isn't motivation to hardcore players to level other classes. It is a time-sink (to hardcore players) it doesn't add motivation it adds a necessity. Hardcore players were already motivated because of a more powerful thing which is called max/min. This is just so people don't reach the cap too fast, and its many ways they could of solved that problem without obviously punishing hardcore players.


Edited, Aug 21st 2010 12:27pm by HocusP

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 12:31pm by HocusP


I have another idea. Maybe end game is not ready yet.

Aion suffered a lot of bad press when endgame was not ready for the first few players that reached the cap. They started talking very negatively and saying endgame is rubbish which probably led to a lot of people not bothering to reach the cap.

If you slow down the hardcore gamers - you make yourself time to fix endgame before players get there. Just a possibility.


Also a possibility, but how about you don't release a product if it's not finished yet?

I don't see how this system helps casual players any anyways. Casuals don't play 20 minutes a day, they usually play for normal stretches sporadically (like when I get some free time off work and don't have to do **** around the house). The fatigue would set in, in this case because of an extended period of EXPing on one job. Do I have time / desire to play 6 other jobs I don't like while I wait for fatigue to diminish? No.

I don't know where SE went with this system, but it has got to be the dumbest concept I've ever heard.
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#42 Aug 22 2010 at 3:43 AM Rating: Default
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This really is the only way to stop people ignoring most of the content (other jobs, exploring, crafting) and just capping one job asap then being bored, it sounds horrible but honestly I think it's probably one of the better things they could of done if you honestly think about it. Given a lot of FFXI players will be playing a much more casual game that are well used to grinding for long periods of time they will race to cap VERY quickly and complain endlessly there is nothing to do, possibly quitting in boredom.

Stop them from doing this and they will instead go and do other things, they will complain but they will still carry on as long as they are generally happy with the game besides that. Racing to 75 on FFXI wasn't a big deal, because there used to be a wealth of endgame options you could do, on FF14 leveling is pretty much all there will be atm I would bet. They are scared of XI players trucking through what they want to do in a really short amount of time and writing off the rest of the stuff finding they have nothing else to do.

I was very much like this on XI and hated what I read about surplus, however I don't want to end up bored either. I hate the idea as I said but i'll try to get into the spirit of it, maybe it really is for our own good on a new game with very little content like this.

Quote:
Also a possibility, but how about you don't release a product if it's not finished yet?


For good or bad I think they might just be scared of Cataclysm and pushing it out asap to get in before that. They do seem to be pushing it out before it's ready and I think that would be the main reason.

Edited, Aug 22nd 2010 5:44am by preludes
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#43 Aug 22 2010 at 4:40 AM Rating: Decent
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And hey, let's throttle ISP bandwidth too. If someone is online more than 3-4 hours a day, we'll just slowly reduce their connection speed. I know they're paying a monthly fee, but they're hogging our server resources.


But they do actually do something similar. A lot of ISPs throttle back connection speeds if you download too much during peak hours.

Still sucks though.
#44 Aug 22 2010 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good
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preludes wrote:
This really is the only way to stop people ignoring most of the content (other jobs, exploring, crafting) and just capping one job asap then being bored, it sounds horrible but honestly I think it's probably one of the better things they could of done if you honestly think about it. Given a lot of FFXI players will be playing a much more casual game that are well used to grinding for long periods of time they will race to cap VERY quickly and complain endlessly there is nothing to do, possibly quitting in boredom.

Stop them from doing this and they will instead go and do other things, they will complain but they will still carry on as long as they are generally happy with the game besides that. Racing to 75 on FFXI wasn't a big deal, because there used to be a wealth of endgame options you could do, on FF14 leveling is pretty much all there will be atm I would bet. They are scared of XI players trucking through what they want to do in a really short amount of time and writing off the rest of the stuff finding they have nothing else to do.

I was very much like this on XI and hated what I read about surplus, however I don't want to end up bored either. I hate the idea as I said but i'll try to get into the spirit of it, maybe it really is for our own good on a new game with very little content like this.


Then perhaps they should delay release until they have more content.

Quote:
Also a possibility, but how about you don't release a product if it's not finished yet?

For good or bad I think they might just be scared of Cataclysm and pushing it out asap to get in before that. They do seem to be pushing it out before it's ready and I think that would be the main reason.


How many Mmo's have I seen rushed out too quickly? EQ2, Aoc, War, Alagon, Vanguard, The list goes on... I swear mmo industry never learns.

Releasing with lots of bugs and a lack of content has killed so many mmo's I hope SE has learned that.

#45jayfly, Posted: Aug 22 2010 at 7:19 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Once again, in my OPINION a lot people who play MMO's spend too much time playing them and are at a high risk of being addicted. This is my opinion and YOU CAN'T CHANGE THAT :)
#46jayfly, Posted: Aug 22 2010 at 7:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I take it that you really meant to say that you hate my opinion right?
#47 Aug 22 2010 at 7:48 AM Rating: Good
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There is an alternative to this, you could just not play Smiley: smile Holy crap people have their panties in a twist. It's not like they sold you the game and then said "HAHA! Now you can't level the same job whenever you want!". You know about it ahead of time, so go cancel your pre-order if it bugs you that bad. Or try to play the game the way they are designing it. If the design is bad, they'll loose players and either fix the issue or the game will fail. Or enough people will decide that this works for them, and play happily.
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#48 Aug 22 2010 at 7:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I've yet to see Surplus~

Also as for:


Quote:
Also a possibility, but how about you don't release a product if it's not finished yet?


MMOs release unfinished. This isn't a single player game despite how much people want to play it as one.

Edited, Aug 22nd 2010 6:51am by Theonehio
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#49 Aug 22 2010 at 8:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
There is an alternative to this, you could just not play Smiley: smile Holy crap people have their panties in a twist. It's not like they sold you the game and then said "HAHA! Now you can't level the same job whenever you want!". You know about it ahead of time, so go cancel your pre-order if it bugs you that bad. Or try to play the game the way they are designing it. If the design is bad, they'll loose players and either fix the issue or the game will fail. Or enough people will decide that this works for them, and play happily.


Or they can voice their displeasure and convince SE to either tone down fatigue or just scrap it. If there ever was a time to complain, it's now.
#50 Aug 22 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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I can tell from all the rate downs that my opinion is unpopular Smiley: laugh

My last post on the subject: I guarantee you this will be in the retail version at launch, if the translation above is any indication. I can see them "adjusting" it after launch, but I imagine it would take a lot to convince them to remove it. My approach will be a wait and see one, seeing as how the second and third waves of testers have no voice at all, I'm going to enjoy the game as it stands (and I AM enjoying it).
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#51 Aug 22 2010 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
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jayfly wrote:
Cherbr wrote:
Quote:
Once again.... if the surplus system is a problem to you... then you spend too much time playing games.


Go read a book


You're the kind of person I hate.


I take it that you really meant to say that you hate my opinion right?
That and you.

BUT THAT'S MY OPINION YOU CAN'T TAKE AWAY MY OPINION.
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