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#1 Aug 20 2010 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
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The following is a rant about everyone's favorite indifferent developer.

With the recent interviews given at Gamescom do people here still trust SE? I'm beginning to see a group that is more concerned with appealing to people who don't really like to play videogames all that much. I mean this surplus thing is pretty insulting to me as a gamer who has held FFXI account ever since it came out on PC in the USA (I know this isn't FFXI but it doesn't mean that they need to sabotage all the fun aspects of it to prove a point). Intentionally hampering someone's ability to level a job because the dev doesn't want them to have an unfair advantage over people who don't really want to play the game seems infuriatingly idiotic to me. I was stoked for this game before but now it seems that SE is going out of their way to please an imaginary demographic of uber-sensitive casual gamers. It's hard for me to understand why I would pay for a game that will actively limit my ability to play it. I'm sorry but it seems like they are either stalling due to lack of content or want to stretch the amount of time that it takes for someone to reach the endgame to make a few more bucks. Either way I'm increasingly feeling a lack of in-game freedom from SE's attitude toward their beta testers. Why pay for a subscription if the game is rigged to not allow me to focus on a specific task for too long. I tend to be obsessional and that's what I love about MMOs. I love diving into a specific role for extended periods of time and then mixing it up by spending the next obsessive period doing another role.

I'm not even going to bother ranting about the UI because I assume that it will be sorted out by launch. I will say, if it is not fixed by the release SE risks losing a large group of players because of basic playability issues.

For the record I've been dying for this game to come out ever since it was announced at E3 over a year ago. I recently got in the beta and wasn't expecting anything extremely polished, so this isn't me being angry with bugs or lack of content. However, between the UI issues, the 48hr leve cooldown, and this surplus crap I'm really beginning to lose faith that SE actually cares about what their fanbase wants. I'm not going to cancel my CE preorder or do anything dramatic because I still have faith that they'll have a solid MMO humming along by their first expansion pack. However, I am getting a little nervous that SE won't listen to fans until the initial launch subscriptions start to go away because of their stubborn choices. I hope they listen to all of us beta testers while they have the chance but I'm not holding my breath.

So, is anyone else finding that they have a little less faith in SE these days? And if you feel the need to just flame me go ahead, I couldn't care less about responses that don't have any constructive arguments or complimentary points.
#2 Aug 20 2010 at 9:34 PM Rating: Good
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Please, please hold your hatred for release. I understand your frustration, but let's at least wait till there is an actual game before we pass judgement on it. I'm not trying to ring the "I'ts just Beta" bell, but really, it is just Beta. Some things will change, and some things won't. Let's see what happens first shall we?
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#3 Aug 20 2010 at 9:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Not going to flame you , you have valid opinion :). Don't agree myself though. Going to see how the game plays out over the next few months before i can REALLY make an opinion myself. They have good theories and good reasons, And it may not even play out at all the way you think it will as well. Or you could be right and it may mess them up royaly.




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#4 Aug 20 2010 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
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I haven't passed a final judgement, however I am concerned by the remarks the devs have been making these past few days. None of my rant was based on my experience in the beta in fact. It has more to do with the restrictive nature of gameplay SE is implementing in many areas of the game to force variety in gameplay when some of us simply want to grind on something for a while.
#5 Aug 20 2010 at 9:46 PM Rating: Good
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That's just what i mean. There is plenty of grinding available. You don't ever even have to do leve's. I think this game is much more dynamic than people tend to realize.
Can i give you a few of my thoughts about the game mechanics?
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#6 Aug 20 2010 at 9:47 PM Rating: Good
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Teneleven wrote:
Please, please hold your hatred for release. I understand your frustration, but let's at least wait till there is an actual game before we pass judgement on it. I'm not trying to ring the "I'ts just Beta" bell, but really, it is just Beta. Some things will change, and some things won't. Let's see what happens first shall we?


Though I agree with your overall point of not jumping to conclusions, I think what is mentioned in the original post has merit, because SE stated that all these things (surplus, no AH, 48 hour cooldown etc) WILL be in release. So I don't think this is just part of the Beta and will get fixed once the game is released.
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#7 Aug 20 2010 at 9:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Tubrudi wrote:
Teneleven wrote:
Please, please hold your hatred for release. I understand your frustration, but let's at least wait till there is an actual game before we pass judgement on it. I'm not trying to ring the "I'ts just Beta" bell, but really, it is just Beta. Some things will change, and some things won't. Let's see what happens first shall we?


Though I agree with your overall point of not jumping to conclusions, I think what is mentioned in the original post has merit, because SE stated that all these things (surplus, no AH, 48 hour cooldown etc) WILL be in release. So I don't think this is just part of the Beta and will get fixed once the game is released.


Agreed however, We dont know HOW it will play out yet. And they are still making adjustments to it.
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#8 Aug 20 2010 at 9:52 PM Rating: Good
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Teneleven wrote:
That's just what i mean. There is plenty of grinding available. You don't ever even have to do leve's.

We'll have to see how Leves balance out at release, right now a singer monster can give you up to 10x XP when under a 5 star leve than it would grinding it leve-less.
#9 Aug 20 2010 at 9:56 PM Rating: Good
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Tubrudi wrote:
Teneleven wrote:
Please, please hold your hatred for release. I understand your frustration, but let's at least wait till there is an actual game before we pass judgement on it. I'm not trying to ring the "I'ts just Beta" bell, but really, it is just Beta. Some things will change, and some things won't. Let's see what happens first shall we?


Though I agree with your overall point of not jumping to conclusions, I think what is mentioned in the original post has merit, because SE stated that all these things (surplus, no AH, 48 hour cooldown etc) WILL be in release. So I don't think this is just part of the Beta and will get fixed once the game is released.


I am not doubting the merit of his post at all. You are correct, those things will be in retail. What isn't being said is the little things that mean the most.

Surplus: Yeah, this one is hard to swallow. If you spend too much time on one class, you get surplus points.
What we won't know until release is how much surplus xp we will get, and when it will start. We also don't know what kind of impact it will really have on our characters, until the release.

No AH: I can see what they are getting at here. To me, it seems like an anti RMT measure. A pre-emptive strike so that RMT can't dictate the economy right from the start. If you have played Aion, you know what i am talking about.

48 hour cooldown: Well, we have no idea how many leve's we will be able to do in that 48 hours. Right now, in beta, i can do like 7 regional, and 12 local in that period. If i party with others, you can multiply that by however many party members you have. There are still leve's we can't do in beta.

Point is, we can't give an official judgment on anything, until things are official. We can have concerns, but let's not let concerns turn into "OMG FFXIV FAILS" prematurely.
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#10 Aug 20 2010 at 10:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Teneleven wrote:
Point is, we can't give an official judgment on anything, until things are official. We can have concerns, but let's not let concerns turn into "OMG FFXIV FAILS" prematurely.

Agreed, OP's I think is more talkign about just having some doupts about the game and expressing his conserns. Not worded the best but i gotta admit he at least tried to make it not sound like a I hate SE type thing. ;) gotta give him credit for that.
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#11 Aug 20 2010 at 10:04 PM Rating: Good
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I don't think that many are saying OMG IT FAILZ. Sure there are a bunch of drama queens on the beta tester forums and other places but not here. SE just seems to be meddling too much. I do see where they are coming from but feel that they are forcing it. I hope the fan reaction at this point really convinces them to balances these limitations wisely. Frankly I never like the concept of being limited but I'm not going to give up on this game. I'm sure in time it will be balanced out. They may even have fixed UI issues by open beta (don't hold your breath). But this initial attitude we are getting from SE is worrisome. Reward those who play less *more* than those that play more...this is the dynamic in the game that needs a complete 180, and fast.

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 12:06am by KingOfTheBongo
#12 Aug 20 2010 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, truthfully, i'm a bit jaded by the beta forums, so forgive me for coming off strong lol. We all share those concerns, and believe me when i say, we are all hoping for the best.
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#13 Aug 20 2010 at 10:10 PM Rating: Default
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KingOfTheBongo wrote:
The following is a rant about everyone's favorite indifferent developer.

With the recent interviews given at Gamescom do people here still trust SE? I'm beginning to see a group that is more concerned with appealing to people who don't really like to play videogames all that much. I mean this surplus thing is pretty insulting to me as a gamer who has held FFXI account ever since it came out on PC in the USA (I know this isn't FFXI but it doesn't mean that they need to sabotage all the fun aspects of it to prove a point). Intentionally hampering someone's ability to level a job because the dev doesn't want them to have an unfair advantage over people who don't really want to play the game seems infuriatingly idiotic to me. I was stoked for this game before but now it seems that SE is going out of their way to please an imaginary demographic of uber-sensitive casual gamers. It's hard for me to understand why I would pay for a game that will actively limit my ability to play it. I'm sorry but it seems like they are either stalling due to lack of content or want to stretch the amount of time that it takes for someone to reach the endgame to make a few more bucks. Either way I'm increasingly feeling a lack of in-game freedom from SE's attitude toward their beta testers. Why pay for a subscription if the game is rigged to not allow me to focus on a specific task for too long. I tend to be obsessional and that's what I love about MMOs. I love diving into a specific role for extended periods of time and then mixing it up by spending the next obsessive period doing another role.

I'm not even going to bother ranting about the UI because I assume that it will be sorted out by launch. I will say, if it is not fixed by the release SE risks losing a large group of players because of basic playability issues.

For the record I've been dying for this game to come out ever since it was announced at E3 over a year ago. I recently got in the beta and wasn't expecting anything extremely polished, so this isn't me being angry with bugs or lack of content. However, between the UI issues, the 48hr leve cooldown, and this surplus crap I'm really beginning to lose faith that SE actually cares about what their fanbase wants. I'm not going to cancel my CE preorder or do anything dramatic because I still have faith that they'll have a solid MMO humming along by their first expansion pack. However, I am getting a little nervous that SE won't listen to fans until the initial launch subscriptions start to go away because of their stubborn choices. I hope they listen to all of us beta testers while they have the chance but I'm not holding my breath.

So, is anyone else finding that they have a little less faith in SE these days? And if you feel the need to just flame me go ahead, I couldn't care less about responses that don't have any constructive arguments or complimentary points.


I'm impressed that you got rated up so much for making negative comments. I guess since more people got to try the beta out they arent wanting to rate complainers down anymore since the complaints are now "valid arguements"
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#14 Aug 20 2010 at 10:15 PM Rating: Decent
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hum, your feelings on the these things are very valid. I don't personally agree with them but hey thats no big deal.

It can be helpful to vent frustrations be I do agree with the other people who said to 'wait it out'. Heck FFXI went through huge changes from when it came out and as time passed and I'm sure the same thing will happen to this game.
#15 Aug 20 2010 at 10:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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UncleRuckusForLife wrote:

I'm impressed that you got rated up so much for making negative comments. I guess since more people got to try the beta out they arent wanting to rate complainers down anymore since the complaints are now "valid arguements"


It's how he worded it.
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#16 Aug 20 2010 at 10:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Since you can use abilities you've learned from one class on another I don't see the surplus being that huge of a factor. They are less effective than if you use them on the class you learned them on (half I believe?), but they are still there for other classes to use. If all a person does is level one class to the cap they'll be missing tons of abilities which I'm sure will prove useful. I can easily picture many abilities being useful for certain events, monsters, leves, you get the picture. The surplus will in turn encourage players to level multiple classes and explore all the game has to offer in character customization. SE stated character development was going to play a large part in FFXIV and getting players to level multiple classes from the start, rather than just for subjobs and after maxing one job (FFXI), will bring that to be.

Edited, Aug 20th 2010 11:20pm by Sefi
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#17 Aug 20 2010 at 10:22 PM Rating: Good
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Sefi wrote:
Since you can use abilities you've learned from one class on another I don't see the surplus being that huge of a factor. They are less effective than if you use them on the class you learned them on (half I believe?), but they are still there for other classes to use. If all a person does is level one class to the cap they'll be missing tons of abilities which I'm sure will prove useful. I can easily picture many abilities being useful for certain events, monsters, leves, you get the picture. The surplus will in turn encourage players to level multiple classes and explore all the game has to offer in character customization. SE stated character development was going to play a large part in FFXIV and getting players to level multiple classes from the start, rather than just for subjobs and after maxing one job (FFXI), will bring that to be.

Edited, Aug 20th 2010 11:20pm by Sefi


This ^^
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#18 Aug 20 2010 at 10:32 PM Rating: Default
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Puppy1 wrote:
UncleRuckusForLife wrote:

I'm impressed that you got rated up so much for making negative comments. I guess since more people got to try the beta out they arent wanting to rate complainers down anymore since the complaints are now "valid arguements"


It's how he worded it.


I'm a ****** so I say things like a caveman. I dont like dancing around the issues I just say what I feel.
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#19 Aug 20 2010 at 10:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I get the idea but I don't like the attitude of requiring to player to change gears at certain limits of XPing. What if you're in a XP pt and want to hit a certain level for an ability and then want to level up the SJ after getting said ability? Are you supposed to drop out of the pt and solo the SJ? Or do you have to go through the hassle of finding a new pt?

Bottom line is that the leveling should be up to the player. If some idiot wants to level a job without considering support abilities lets see how far they get. They shouldn't need to install these safeguards that ultimately become restrictive gameplay-wise.
#20 Aug 20 2010 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
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I would watch my surplus and if it started to accumulate you might decide to start leveling something else tomorrow. From what I read it starts at 10% and goes up from there. People that ditch a party after getting a certain level or ability isn't anything new either.

Edited, Aug 20th 2010 11:41pm by Sefi
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#21 Aug 20 2010 at 10:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah I honestly don't mind the bums who use PTs to get an ability or item then bounce because that's just part of playing an MMO. I don't want to have to take that 10% hit to XP though, it seems silly and backwards. It's negative re-enforcement for spending too long in one class and frankly I think it's fun to jam on one class for a few days and then do some crafting for a few days after that to pay for the job. I don't want to be going back and forth everyday.
#22 Aug 20 2010 at 10:55 PM Rating: Good
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Sefi wrote:
I would watch my surplus and if it started to accumulate you might decide to start leveling something else tomorrow. From what I read it starts at 10% and goes up from there. People that ditch a party after getting a certain level or ability isn't anything new either.

Edited, Aug 20th 2010 11:41pm by Sefi


Now it seems ditching that party after leveling is practically enforced by the game.

The fact of the matter is that we don't understand enough about how the surplus system works to draw any conclusions. We know it affects your exp gain and is related to doing the same thing for a long period of time, but beyond that we know basically squat.

I can assume that it nerfs my exp gain into the ground and makes me incapable of gaining levels or skill ranks
I can assume that it makes chocolate bunnies fall from the sky and dance the mamba singing Here Comes Peter Cottontail

At this point either is pretty much equally correct, also the second one is delicious and weird.
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#23 Aug 20 2010 at 10:59 PM Rating: Good
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Not sure how many of you haven't played the beta yet but you need to realize how fast you can reach surplus currently. I'd say within 3 hours, not non stop mind you, I was about level 14 PUG and started getting surplus. I've since been on fisherman for about an hour a day at the most, but some people say they still have surplus even after not playing that class for 2 days.

If it stays like it is currently there are going to be a lot of angry people, hardcore AND casuals. ****, some people on the BG forums say they were getting surplus and playing maybe 6 hours a week. Just what is SE's definition of casual?
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#24 Aug 20 2010 at 11:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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I guess it all comes down to how ppl think.

A few LS mates of mine, whom stayed and work in JP, came to this understanding about developers over there. Whether its for games, for toys, for anime, for manga, etc, roughly the same.

To them, building it, is like building a dream. They begin to get into the world which they wanted to see. Slowly building up till its done. So, because of this, any other comments or suggestions that kinda don't fall in their dream, will find it kinda hard to get in. It either they are confident of what they are doing or they are wanted success to be theirs and theirs only.

That I guess kinda explain why the lack of communication. Don;t ask me why they behave this way, even us from asia also find them hard to understand at times (-_-lll

Another reason why there is this surplus thingy is probably due to this reason.

Ideals between West and East. No offense but this is how I see what SE is doing.

On the West Personal freedom, on the East, Society.

To you, the surplus is a limiting and crappy idea, it hampers progress.

To SE, they view it as, making sure there is a right amount of mix when people get to high levels. Example, someone levels only Conjurer, flew through everything, now he needs help. He need to find a tank, ends up, none available at his level. Remember sitting around Jenuo in FFXI waiting for a Rdm or Whm or whatever class thet your server lacks?

So with this surplus, it forces peeps to level other stuff, hopefully, by that time, theres a good mix of classes or a good mix of abilities that a player can use.
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#25 Aug 20 2010 at 11:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Well met Humster.

I still don't agree though. The concern about powering through as a Conjurer and not being able to find tanks is understandable but isn't the issue of searching for a pt why solo-ability was instituted? It sounds like they are staggering the gameplay until they can provide more content forcing us to try out things we may not be interested in trying at the time.

I agree, however, that the philosophies are probably what is driving this divide on the subject. Unfortunately for me, I'm a traditional western capitalist who wants to go big or go home, haha. In all seriousness though, I haven't been so surprised by SE's quiet demeanor. I am more surprised by the systems they are presenting that are new and seem to be restrictive to me.

In general, with the proper balancing I think these systems can work well, but 48 hr cooldowns are mind bogglingly long. How about 4hrs? Even 12 would be much more bearable than 48 hrs. At the current rate you pay for 30 days of gameplay and can only focus on your passion for half of that time at best. I'm hoping that these rates are just super high because of the limited content in beta and will be balanced for the vastly expanded content in the full release.
#26 Aug 20 2010 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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TBH I wouldn't even worry about these gameplay issues for now. 6 months after launch XIV will be a COMPLETELY different game. Right now my guess is they're working on last minute technical adjustments. After launch they can analyze their new system, how it works compared to the old one, how their customers react to it: And adjust accordingly.

That's the beauty of MMOs, they're LIVING games.

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#27 Aug 20 2010 at 11:27 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
but now it seems that SE is going out of their way to please an imaginary demographic of uber-sensitive casual gamers.


It's simple really.

The shareholders took one look at WoW and got $ (or Yen) signs in their eyes and instructed the development team to make a casual friendly MMO with mass market appeal.

Basically the same thing that has gone horribly wrong with every MMO released since WoW came out.

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 2:31am by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#28 Aug 20 2010 at 11:30 PM Rating: Good
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Lobivopis wrote:
It's simple really.

The shareholders took one look at WoW and got $ (or Yen) signs in their eyes and instructed the development team to make a casual friendly MMO with mass market appeal.

Basically the same thing that has gone horribly wrong with every MMO released since WoW came out.


Not sure I understand what you're saying here... FFXIV isn't a WoW clone....... so.......?

*head asplode*
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#29 Aug 20 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not really sure I understand the surplus thing. Once you get too much exp from one source, you start getting surplus exp? Can this exp be put towards a different class or does it magically go away into nothingness?

Either way, this system sounds like it focuses too heavily on everyone leveling everything. I am instantly reminded of fable. You can be the best melee fighter, the best mage, and the best archer in the entire world. Any downsides to that are just my own personal opinions so I'll spare you. But think about it a bit and come to your own conclusions.
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#30 Aug 20 2010 at 11:34 PM Rating: Good
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FenrirXIII wrote:
I'm not really sure I understand the surplus thing. Once you get too much exp from one source, you start getting surplus exp? Can this exp be put towards a different class or does it magically go away into nothingness?

Either way, this system sounds like it focuses too heavily on everyone leveling everything. I am instantly reminded of fable. You can be the best melee fighter, the best mage, and the best archer in the entire world. Any downsides to that are just my own personal opinions so I'll spare you. But think about it a bit and come to your own conclusions.


It sounds like it just goes away, but there's also this Surplus rank that apparently you can gain so....?

Basically more information is needed and most likely it isn't possible to figure out what's what until retail when we see how things actually work.
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#31 Aug 20 2010 at 11:35 PM Rating: Decent
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KingOfTheBongo wrote:
Well met Humster.

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Quote:
I still don't agree though. The concern about powering through as a Conjurer and not being able to find tanks is understandable but isn't the issue of searching for a pt why solo-ability was instituted? It sounds like they are staggering the gameplay until they can provide more content forcing us to try out things we may not be interested in trying at the time.


Other then combat classes, we need to also look at crafting and gathering. You can't solo a game when your gear is broke, or you don;t have the needed equipment, or you can't find someone to make one for you. It may just as well want us to slow down a little while they push out content.

Quote:
I agree, however, that the philosophies are probably what is driving this divide on the subject. Unfortunately for me, I'm a traditional western capitalist who wants to go big or go home, haha. In all seriousness though, I haven't been so surprised by SE's quiet demeanor. I am more surprised by the systems they are presenting that are new and seem to be restrictive to me.


Humans will also feel they are 1 up vs the other human (>....>. Thats life, that how the world works, and thats how it shall end. *insert mystical chanting here*

Well, I think it brings us back to philosophies of life, some view things that are restrictive and counterproductive and ask questions, others see the restrictions and work around it. Asking VS Acceptance.

Quote:
In general, with the proper balancing I think these systems can work well, but 48 hr cooldowns are mind bogglingly long. How about 4hrs? Even 12 would be much more bearable than 48 hrs. At the current rate you pay for 30 days of gameplay and can only focus on your passion for half of that time at best. I'm hoping that these rates are just super high because of the limited content in beta and will be balanced for the vastly expanded content in the full release.


1 thing I really wanted to ask. The 48hours after 8 Guildlevles is for all 4 Disciplines or each one gets 8?
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#32 Aug 20 2010 at 11:37 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Lobivopis wrote:
It's simple really.

The shareholders took one look at WoW and got $ (or Yen) signs in their eyes and instructed the development team to make a casual friendly MMO with mass market appeal.

Basically the same thing that has gone horribly wrong with every MMO released since WoW came out.


Not sure I understand what you're saying here... FFXIV isn't a WoW clone....... so.......?

*head asplode*


It's not a WoW clone no, but they are trying to appeal to the same demographic of casual players who don't normally play games except Farmville or Popcap games or whatever. This is the market Blizzard has tapped, and it seems that SE by their own admission sees FFXIV as being able to rival WoW in the market.

Which is kind of laughable when you consider that most of this demographic won't have computers even capable of running FFXIV.
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#33 Aug 20 2010 at 11:40 PM Rating: Good
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Lobivopis wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Lobivopis wrote:
It's simple really.

The shareholders took one look at WoW and got $ (or Yen) signs in their eyes and instructed the development team to make a casual friendly MMO with mass market appeal.

Basically the same thing that has gone horribly wrong with every MMO released since WoW came out.


Not sure I understand what you're saying here... FFXIV isn't a WoW clone....... so.......?

*head asplode*


It's not a WoW clone no, but they are trying to appeal to the same demographic of casual players who don't normally play games except Farmville or Popcap games or whatever. This is the market Blizzard has tapped, and it seems that SE by their own admission sees FFXIV as being able to rival WoW in the market.

Which is kind of laughable when you consider that most of this demographic won't have computers even capable of running FFXIV.


If that's indeed their plan I'll agree it's probably doomed to failure just based on the cost of entry.

Who knows, maybe when it doesn't work they'll turn around and fix it? Eh...eh? Ok fine, but if I'm going to have delusions I'm going for the really satisfying ones
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#34 Aug 21 2010 at 12:20 AM Rating: Good
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Which is kind of laughable when you consider that most of this demographic won't have computers even capable of running FFXIV.




This is the part that perplexes me. I consider myself a bit more than an average gamer, and even my pc isn't up to snuff. I just don't get it, they're completely contradicting themselves.
#35 Aug 21 2010 at 12:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Which is kind of laughable when you consider that most of this demographic won't have computers even capable of running FFXIV.


This to me is the funniest part, they are trying to appeal to a casual audience with a game that requires a PC usually owned by hardcore gamers. Wow did so well because it had mass market appeal and it ran on pretty basic PCs.

For people complaining about Square not listening, Square never listened to what players wanted on FFXI. Only in the last 2 years when they lost intrest in FFXI and were close to completion for 14 have they bothered to give us what we wanted all along, it's like they do everything their own way until they lose intrest and then listen to us.
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#36 Aug 21 2010 at 12:40 AM Rating: Default
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preludes wrote:
Quote:
Which is kind of laughable when you consider that most of this demographic won't have computers even capable of running FFXIV.


This to me is the funniest part, they are trying to appeal to a casual audience with a game that requires a PC usually owned by hardcore gamers. Wow did so well because it had mass market appeal and it ran on pretty basic PCs.

For people complaining about Square not listening, Square never listened to what players wanted on FFXI. Only in the last 2 years when they lost intrest in FFXI and were close to completion for 14 have they bothered to give us what we wanted all along, it's like they do everything their own way until they lose intrest and then listen to us.


You should have heard the guy in general chat tonight he actually said "SE has a golden track record and is an A+ gaming company"
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#37 Aug 21 2010 at 1:02 AM Rating: Decent
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preludes wrote:
Quote:
Which is kind of laughable when you consider that most of this demographic won't have computers even capable of running FFXIV.


This to me is the funniest part, they are trying to appeal to a casual audience with a game that requires a PC usually owned by hardcore gamers. Wow did so well because it had mass market appeal and it ran on pretty basic PCs.

For people complaining about Square not listening, Square never listened to what players wanted on FFXI. Only in the last 2 years when they lost intrest in FFXI and were close to completion for 14 have they bothered to give us what we wanted all along, it's like they do everything their own way until they lose intrest and then listen to us.


FFXI has stayed alive as long as it has mostly because it is the last of the oldschool hardcore PVE MMOs. It was a niche market MMO that provided something that wasn't available in more mainstream MMO's, namely a soul crushing grind for masochists who actually enjoy that sort of thing (you'd be surprised, there are people who actually do). This is why it has maintained largely the same number of subscribers all these years, the FFXI "experience" is simply not available elsewhere anymore.



Edited, Aug 21st 2010 4:11am by Lobivopis
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#38 Aug 21 2010 at 1:20 AM Rating: Good
preludes wrote:
This to me is the funniest part, they are trying to appeal to a casual audience with a game that requires a PC usually owned by hardcore gamers. Wow did so well because it had mass market appeal and it ran on pretty basic PCs.


You know, for all the talks about PC's needing to be powerful to run this game, it's really not the case. I built my comp a couple years back for about 500$, and it runs XIV on rather high settings flawlessly. The stuff I bought would probably run you about 300-400$ these days. My processor is an e5200, that I bought for about 60$ new, the chip's easy to OC and gets the job done. RAM is cheap, the only thing that'll run you is the video card and maybe the motherboard if you go over the top.

If you want to run this at max resolution, AA, detail, etc, ya, you'll need something a touch more hardcore, but even at that, a quad core processor isn't that expensive, and one GTX460 isn't that much. Also, with all the guides online about PC building now, there's really no reason to not do it. It's become pretty idiot proof over the years, even the audio + power wires for the on button and such can only go one way. The motherboard manuals show you where everything goes.
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#39 Aug 21 2010 at 1:26 AM Rating: Default
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
preludes wrote:
This to me is the funniest part, they are trying to appeal to a casual audience with a game that requires a PC usually owned by hardcore gamers. Wow did so well because it had mass market appeal and it ran on pretty basic PCs.


You know, for all the talks about PC's needing to be powerful to run this game, it's really not the case. I built my comp a couple years back for about 500$, and it runs XIV on rather high settings flawlessly. The stuff I bought would probably run you about 300-400$ these days. My processor is an e5200, that I bought for about 60$ new, the chip's easy to OC and gets the job done. RAM is cheap, the only thing that'll run you is the video card and maybe the motherboard if you go over the top.

If you want to run this at max resolution, AA, detail, etc, ya, you'll need something a touch more hardcore, but even at that, a quad core processor isn't that expensive, and one GTX460 isn't that much. Also, with all the guides online about PC building now, there's really no reason to not do it. It's become pretty idiot proof over the years, even the audio + power wires for the on button and such can only go one way. The motherboard manuals show you where everything goes.


My E5200 runs ffxiv like ****, but I might just have higher standards. Huge difference between that and my recently built computer.
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#40 Aug 21 2010 at 2:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
It's become pretty idiot proof over the years, even the audio + power wires for the on button and such can only go one way.


Yes those LGA sockets that are destroyed by the slightest contact with anything with the cover removed are idiot proof.

Not.

I would not let anyone who didn't have experience with LGA sockets anywhere near one of those MBs lest they end up with an expensive doorstop. Even an errant piece of lint can ***** them up*


*requires an ultra fine pair of tweezers, a magnifying glass and a very steady hand to remove safely.

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 5:11am by Lobivopis
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#41 Aug 21 2010 at 2:31 AM Rating: Decent
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The only consolation I can take away from this is that after this fails catastrophically, they'll probably try to make FFXI playable again for fear of having no cash cows.

I haven't watched a terrific failure from the inside before, this is kinda fun.

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 3:31am by Ranzera
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#42 Aug 21 2010 at 2:46 AM Rating: Good
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"It sounds like it just goes away, but there's also this Surplus rank that apparently you can gain so....? "

It's simple really. They have designed a strategy in which at high level everyone will have every job around the same levels.
So if you are lvl 20 in one job you will be forced to be around 15 in the rest or at least several others. THIS way, instead of having paladin warriors (who like tanking and are good at it because they like it) and Darkknight thieves (who like DD and are good at it because they like it) everyone will be cookie cutter and have the same characters but look different! Everyone will be able to play every job and have every job leveled because its a waste of time and effort to level what you like and only get a portion of the exp you should. It's kind of like death penalty without actually dieing. Also, it will be super easy to make parties at mid to high levels (except the parties will fail because people playing the roles will probably suck because they dont really "like" playing that role, but they level it because they are under surplus restriction and dont like the feel of "lost" experience and wasted time)
Sound like WIN to me...

Another thought I just had since I joined that RP site is that this whole surplus idea is perfect for role players. My swashbuckling rogue type character will love using a shield, or giant axe like a barbarian. Also he should have tons of fun playing a mage even though he hates the idea of magic because his lover was killed in front of his very eyes using magic. YAY fun times...*end sarcasm

also surplus rank seems to me like (speculation of course) the higher your "surplus rank" the more of your exp goes *poof*
#43 Aug 21 2010 at 7:26 AM Rating: Decent
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The higher the surplus rank, the bigger the % of exp that gets taken away. The exp disappears into nothingness because eventually your rank will fall and you'll just hit the same rank again after playing that class again
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#44 Aug 21 2010 at 7:31 AM Rating: Decent
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I think that everyone is still considering this to be a new FFXI. We're all going to have to realize that it is a different game that will be played differently. It's just going to take some time to get used to all the change.
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#45 Aug 21 2010 at 7:47 AM Rating: Decent
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I think SE just doesn't want to get sued, http://kotaku.com/5618153/addicted-gamer-sues-lineage-wants-20000-hours-of-his-life-back

Sorry for the derail >.>
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#46 Aug 21 2010 at 7:51 AM Rating: Decent
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This isn't targeted to the OP but I keep seeing "Surplus this" and "Surplus that" I have never seen so much crying over not being to grind endlessly in my life..and this is between every forum I've posted in. My lord lol. It's not that bad it really isn't and it's also a check on you need to repair your weapon and do something besides grind (as it seems what it's purpose is for), it's only a "problem" because beta doesn't have all of the game's content which is why it seems like a problem now.

However what did we learn here?

Let's not cry to (insert developer) that their game is "too hard" and "needs to be more casual" Smiley: lol ..I mean the people who want to play only 30 minutes to an hour or two every 2-3 days should be able to play some form of content but the fact they kept crying to SE their game wasn't accessible seemed to really spawn their direction for the levesystem, because the timer doesn't affect them and btw, I fall onto the 'casual' side of the fence where I don't want to play 5+ hours a day like I did back in 2002.

The leve situation makes perfect sense, it's clearly not designed for people who can play 12 hours a day and even if you play MMO like a work schedule you can team up with people and share their leves (means you gotta actually talk to people, make friends etc.) so realistically I never seen a problem when it came to leves. I've had NO problems partying with even random strangers to do guildleves when I ran out, I then took up all of the local leves I could then I went to start making armor and supplying new people with armor..surplus? pft I guess I would take a cut on exp if I grind in any way with a weapon on its last legs (it has been linked to mainly weapon degradation and 'fatigue')

Yeah partying can give more incentive which is to be expected by release when the game is balanced (This is a beta still remember..it will have issues) and the fact the UI isn't client side there's a lot of checks that going into place which again as expected to be fixed by released since it's a basic server issue. Also as someone mentioned, this is a West vs East thing, remember what game you're playing, an Eastern designed game, be grateful that we're not going to have to spend 820 hours grinding past level 10 to hit level 15 like a lot of Korean games..yes that was exaggerated but it really does take way to long to get even a handful of levels in their games, SE's MMOs (FMO, FFXI, FFXIV) are the lest "grindy" in those terms, and in beta it's all you can really do outside of crafting and leves.

I just look at it from a developers point of view so I don't get jaded over much of the stuff people seem to and as for your question:

Quote:
Why pay for a subscription if the game is rigged to not allow me to focus on a specific task for too long.


Quite simple, you don't play an MMORPG because you only want to focus on one thing, they want you to experience everything, you may be OCD about something but I can promise you most people that cried for their game to be casual friendly want to do whatever they can in the short amount of time they want to play.

Good or bad is in the eye of the beholder, but quite honestly I've leveled Pugilist to rank 14, Lancer to rank 6, Culinerian to rank 6, Blacksmith to rank 12, Goldsmith to rank 6, Armorer to rank 4, Conjurer to rank 10 and Thaumaturge to rank 5 and yet to see surplus, even though Pugilist is my main that I mostly grind on it still hasn't seen a surplus yet because I keep my weapon in top condition and it seems that because I spread my activity out I didn't get hit with a 'fatigue'..and whatever surplus truly is it is not working as intended just as the achievement system isn't working as intended yet and it's painfully obvious what they're trying to do with it but the execution of it is just not fine tuned yet.

Calm down folks, people figured FFXI would fall on its face after a month if not a week when it hit America because of certain aspects they heard about the JP launch. It lasted over 8 years..not because it's one of the only 'hardcore pve games' left but because face it..jadedness aside it's a **** good MMORPG, no one can deny that. This is what happens when you play a game that TRULY is in a testing phase and not just a demo phase that get labeled as a beta so any problems that do arise in the demo they will say "oh yeah this is a beta" where as in a real beta..you should expect problems. Nothing is refined, yeah the features and etc are set for released but the problems with it (aka technical problems, not personal problems) are something that will get fixed, if enough people that want to play for 12-17 hours a day cry to SE they may adjust the leve timer, but for now they only care to see how the casual side handle everything. I'm not for or against any playstyle or how people want to play..but you gotta be realistic about it, they've been pushing and pushing that this game wants to be more accessible to casual base and a lot of "problems" that people are currently facing in terms of leve and surplus aren't going to actually hurt the casual playerbase at all.

Unless of course, people just label themselves as casual for an excuse to not have x,y,z raid/standard gear when they get labeled as a gimp ala FFXI...but real casual players will find the system fine instead of spending a lot of their available time looking to do a certain raid they finally get into a group then they have to leave by time you reach the raid destination. The lockout period (not cooldown, but lockout) seems weird, since I did all of my leves and it was up again shortly because I've mostly partied for leves after I ran out of mine..so I don't know what's going on that end to be honest.

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 6:56am by Theonehio
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#47 Aug 21 2010 at 8:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Theonehio stop spreading LIES.
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DK: We'd like you to think of it as a reward to those players who don't have much time to commit to the game. Those hardcore players out there might think it's a little unfair, but the main concept behind it is that you don't need to put in massive amounts of time to enjoy the game.

Quote:
For those who have more time on their hands, they'll be able to try out all the various classes. Fatigue doesn't carry over when you change weapons, so we hope that they'll try out not just battle-oriented classes but maybe some crafting or gathering ones as well. So for those who end up with many high-level classes, they'll have more choices when it comes to any situation, whether solo or party play.


Quote:
So soloing will be the basis of the game?

DK: Yes. More than a one-man army, it's more of a slow-and-steady kind of thing. In FFXI many things weren't possible solo, so we'd like to avoid that from developing this time around.
#48 Aug 21 2010 at 8:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Smiley: grin
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#49 Aug 21 2010 at 8:10 AM Rating: Decent
Lobivopis wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
It's become pretty idiot proof over the years, even the audio + power wires for the on button and such can only go one way.


Yes those LGA sockets that are destroyed by the slightest contact with anything with the cover removed are idiot proof.

Not.

I would not let anyone who didn't have experience with LGA sockets anywhere near one of those MBs lest they end up with an expensive doorstop. Even an errant piece of lint can ***** them up*




Huh, I'm not even sure what an LGA socket is and I built a computer last week. Sounds idiot proof to me.
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#50 Aug 21 2010 at 8:15 AM Rating: Decent
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We'd like you to think of it as a reward to those players who don't have much time to commit to the game.

Really?
I think the gaming community in general understands that if you don't play you don't progress. I fail to see why that concept needed to be addressed. We're all ok with that.
When I turned off my NES, everyone else who bought The Legend of Zelda was still allowed to play, and I was ok with that. I'm still ok with the idea 20+ years later.

If you asked XI players what the thing was that separated their MMO from others, most responded that it was the job system. I liked how SE changed it slightly in XIV, with weapon profficiency, so it was less of a clone, but to totally ***** it up makes no sense whatsoever.
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#51 Aug 21 2010 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Honestly I usually support the devs in their decisions because they have a vision of what they want and they have information that common players just don't. It may also be just a beta thing or just overly harsh in beta to make sure testers are trying everything. That said I can't support this "Surplus" because it doesn't help casual player, only hurts hardcore players.

I understand where SE is coming from in the fact that they want people to try all aspects of the game instead just power grinding a class to max level then complain there is nothing to do. **** I did that in WoW before I quit. With the things FFXIV has going for it right now though you don't need "Surplus" to get people to play other classes, they'll do it on their own. Here are the highlights that encourage diversity:

-Crafting isn't a side job so player switch weapons for that
-Abilities are more robust and useable on all classes
-Changing weapons on the fly allows people to switch they role aspects from tank to healer to dd without much hassle

As I said you don't need to force people to try different thing because they are going to do it own their own. Sure they max a class out but that doesn't mean they'll won't try a different class next. I have seen my friends who still play WoW level one class after another just to keep themselves entertained. If you build a good immersive MMO that people enjoy playing just to play than you don't need to worry about players getting bored and leaving that game.
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