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What is Surplus EXP and 48-hour cooldown?Follow

#1 Aug 20 2010 at 10:40 PM Rating: Good
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I've noticed people mentioning stuff about a 48-hour cooldown for leves and this surplus exp thing... I'm guessing the cooldown means after you complete a leve you have to wait 48 hours to complete another, and surplus exp is meant encourage leveling other professions but I'm still in the dark on these. If someone could, please explain what these are... Here's a few questions I have on it:

* Is the cooldown for leves on all leves or is it only so many can be done before you have to wait 48 hours?

* With the surplus exp, how does that affect your character overall? Exactly what does it do?
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#2 Aug 20 2010 at 10:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Yea, I would love to know what "surplus exp" is and how it works myself
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#3 Aug 20 2010 at 10:54 PM Rating: Good
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If you play on one class for an extended period of time (undisclosed at this point) then you start to lose xp as 'surplus'. Consider it a tax for not changing your play style.

If you don't play the class for 48 hours then it will return to normal. It is to encourage people to play a range of different classes. There is much concern about the surplus at the moment, but it may be intentionally harsh in Phase 3 of Beta to get people to test all sorts of stuff. The general consensus is that it will change before release and surplus won't be as harsh, but it will still exist.

The cooldown on Guildleves on the other hand. Each 48 hour period you have 8 Guildleves that can be performed. Once performed you must wait until the next 48 hour bracket. Make sense?
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#4 Aug 20 2010 at 10:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Papanurf wrote:
If you play on one class for an extended period of time (undisclosed at this point) then you start to lose xp as 'surplus'. Consider it a tax for not changing your play style.

If you don't play the class for 48 hours then it will return to normal. It is to encourage people to play a range of different classes. There is much concern about the surplus at the moment, but it may be intentionally harsh in Phase 3 of Beta to get people to test all sorts of stuff. The general consensus is that it will change before release and surplus won't be as harsh, but it will still exist.

The cooldown on Guildleves on the other hand. Each 48 hour period you have 8 Guildleves that can be performed. Once performed you must wait until the next 48 hour bracket. Make sense?


Didn't Tanaka-san give an interview at some point where he described the growth system as "You can play one thing and be the best at that, or you can play multiple things and be not quite as good at a lot of things"

Maybe he only meant the second one?

Need more information on this system and what it really does and how it really works
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#5 Aug 20 2010 at 11:01 PM Rating: Good
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Callinon wrote:
Papanurf wrote:
If you play on one class for an extended period of time (undisclosed at this point) then you start to lose xp as 'surplus'. Consider it a tax for not changing your play style.

If you don't play the class for 48 hours then it will return to normal. It is to encourage people to play a range of different classes. There is much concern about the surplus at the moment, but it may be intentionally harsh in Phase 3 of Beta to get people to test all sorts of stuff. The general consensus is that it will change before release and surplus won't be as harsh, but it will still exist.

The cooldown on Guildleves on the other hand. Each 48 hour period you have 8 Guildleves that can be performed. Once performed you must wait until the next 48 hour bracket. Make sense?


Didn't Tanaka-san give an interview at some point where he described the growth system as "You can play one thing and be the best at that, or you can play multiple things and be not quite as good at a lot of things"

Maybe he only meant the second one?

Need more information on this system and what it really does and how it really works


Yeah, they said somewhere recently that it's a reward for playing casually. People are nerd raging hard about it at the moment. It might encourage you to play other classes... OR~ It may encourage you to cancel your pre-order. Not sure yet.
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#6 Aug 20 2010 at 11:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Found this:
Quote:
"F: Tell why you decided to implement Fatigue and Latency (note: I really don't know how to translate that, but it's something in-game to keep you from playing too long at a time on one class).

DK: We'd like you to think of it as a reward to those players who don't have much time to commit to the game. Those hardcore players out there might think it's a little unfair, but the main concept behind it is that you don't need to put in massive amounts of time to enjoy the game.


F: Still though, there are a lot of disgruntled looks coming from those hardcore gamers.

DK: For those who have more time on their hands, they'll be able to try out all the various classes. Fatigue doesn't carry over when you change weapons, so we hope that they'll try out not just battle-oriented classes but maybe some crafting or gathering ones as well. So for those who end up with many high-level classes, they'll have more choices when it comes to any situation, whether solo or party play."


Maybe this answers some questions?
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#7 Aug 20 2010 at 11:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Papanurf wrote:
Found this:
Quote:
"F: Tell why you decided to implement Fatigue and Latency (note: I really don't know how to translate that, but it's something in-game to keep you from playing too long at a time on one class).

DK: We'd like you to think of it as a reward to those players who don't have much time to commit to the game. Those hardcore players out there might think it's a little unfair, but the main concept behind it is that you don't need to put in massive amounts of time to enjoy the game.


F: Still though, there are a lot of disgruntled looks coming from those hardcore gamers.

DK: For those who have more time on their hands, they'll be able to try out all the various classes. Fatigue doesn't carry over when you change weapons, so we hope that they'll try out not just battle-oriented classes but maybe some crafting or gathering ones as well. So for those who end up with many high-level classes, they'll have more choices when it comes to any situation, whether solo or party play."


Maybe this answers some questions?


Not really... except that Donkey Kong is bad at answering questions.

I think I understand what he's trying to say, but it doesn't seem like a good way to go about it. You should never beat the player over the head with a club to get them to do what you want them to do, you can encourage them in a direction, but having forced decisions like that makes me feel like I'm not playing the game the way I want to play it
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#8 Aug 20 2010 at 11:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Personally, after playing the game for a few hours, the game is great except for these artificial restrictions they are placing on us. I did the guildleves and tried fishing (which is starting to upset me, but that's another topic) for a while but got bored...then I just didn't have anything to do since there's nowhere to grind either and I'm not interesting in the FFXI grind anyway...so I stopped playing. Guess I'll pick it back up in two days and see if I get upset enough to make my own thread about it.

I mean, I was actually worried about the game itself, the combat mainly, but the combat is fun, it's definitely not slow, at least for a lancer, so the game is fine...it's just the guildleves ending that's upsetting.
#9 Aug 20 2010 at 11:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yogtheterrible wrote:
Personally, after playing the game for a few hours, the game is great except for these artificial restrictions they are placing on us. I did the guildleves and tried fishing (which is starting to upset me, but that's another topic) for a while but got bored...then I just didn't have anything to do since there's nowhere to grind either and I'm not interesting in the FFXI grind anyway...so I stopped playing. Guess I'll pick it back up in two days and see if I get upset enough to make my own thread about it.

I mean, I was actually worried about the game itself, the combat mainly, but the combat is fun, it's definitely not slow, at least for a lancer, so the game is fine...it's just the guildleves ending that's upsetting.


So I had this same problem until I adjusted my thinking slightly, now I'm having way more fun.

Don't think of guildleves as the primary means to advance in the game, think of them as a method for getting neat stuff and some cash. These are the same guys that developed FFXI and their brains don't work differently now than they did back in 2001 when dinosaurs roamed the Earth. They're convinced you love to grind, so grind you shall, and honestly... it's not that bad. I was really struggling on my thaumaturge because of MP constraints, and then I dinged 10 and got Damnation (TP attack that recovers a small amount of MP based on the damage it deals), at first the MP return seemed pretty horrible, and then I found a way to use it where I was actually gaining MP and then I took off. I can do that infinitely now and heal myself while doing it, I will never run out of MP, I will never run out of HP if I don't do stupid things.

And then I do guildleves when they're up, because they get me things.
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#10 Aug 20 2010 at 11:33 PM Rating: Good
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See...there's a flaw there...I don't like grinding. Most people who quit FFXI did it because they don't want to grind anymore. It was fun the first few hundred hours but now it's old.
#11 Aug 20 2010 at 11:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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^ This.

I've been grinding in the game to see if it's worth it. Not really. Took me over two hours, including some leves my rank (of which there were only three at rank 10 to start. Lame.) to go from rank 10 to rank 11. Now it wasn't hard, and I was figuring out how to best use my TP moves on my glad to kill things fastest and minimize damage. Once I had that down pat, however, it was back to boring.

I'd LOVE to be able to craft. I'd like to be an armourer and/or blacksmith. But most of the base recipes require fire crystals to start... which are hard to find. The few times I've attempted crafting for local leves have ended in epic failure due to lack of tutorials... and it makes me hesitant to try again being that you lose materials when you fail.

I'd LOVE to be able to gather more often. The concept of a mini game is entertaining. But it gets old after a while when you start to get frustrated with UI lag (for the love of god, get over yourselves, accept someone is going to hack your code eventually, and put the UI client side) and the time you hit enter to execute a gather isn't where the cursor ends up... and in mining, that timing is crucial.

Not to be a downer, because I have high hopes for the game. The combat is engaging and will be VERY strategic once they work out UI kinks. But I quit FFXI so I wouldn't have to grind anymore. I'd even take a grind where I was just given a set of quests at a hub for a given period of time before moving on to the next. At least then I feel like I'm getting SOMEWHERE. (I know this will change at release when they have full content and a wider variety of leves and locations available... but there's such limited content available for the beta atm, you have to be very dedicated to what you're doing to stay focused. IMO)

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 2:00am by dalm
#12 Aug 21 2010 at 12:13 AM Rating: Good
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you can do.. 7 or 8 (i forget which) leves yourself every 48 hours, but you can join in as many other leves as you like if other people initiate them. the surplus exp thing though I'm still uncertain about... I remember first seeing it after they said they fixed people getting the incorrect amount of exp.. so maybe it's a quick fix to solve that?
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#13 Aug 21 2010 at 12:14 AM Rating: Decent
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is there a way to cycle classes with a few freinds and get around the surplus and 48 hour cool down?
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#14 Aug 21 2010 at 12:25 AM Rating: Good
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I've been trying out as much as possible in the beta and the thing that frustrates me most is the UI and surplus exp. I was just starting to get moving on my lancer and then bam exp dropped considerably. Pretty much forced me to play pug. That got good and then I started hitting surplus again @ 14-15 so I decided to craft. The horribly ambigious crafting system needs a ton of work. With only a general idea of what to do and no recipes you have to guess what goes together or find something online. Ffxi at least had npcs that gave you recipes if you talk to them.

I realize the UI is mostly server side and SE said they have checks and debugging in place but ****. After trying to craft for an hour I wanted to scream when I had to get to a material in the middle of my inventory. I got smithing to 5 and gold to 7 but the majority of the class exp came from ez craft leves.

I want to post more but my phone is so slow typing this out...
#15 Aug 21 2010 at 12:25 AM Rating: Good
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It sounds, to me, kind of like the rested XP on WoW... Or a twisted version of it atleast..
#16 Aug 21 2010 at 12:27 AM Rating: Decent
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nothing wrong with the surplus. and cant get around the 48hour cd. but like I said you can join in others leves. so say u and 5 friends have the exact same 7 leves. you start yours first, do them all. everyone get **** loads of exp. then the next person starts theirs and so on and so forth. end result is 35 leves done between the lot of you
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#17 Aug 21 2010 at 12:29 AM Rating: Good
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Jenovaomega wrote:
nothing wrong with the surplus. and cant get around the 48hour cd. but like I said you can join in others leves. so say u and 5 friends have the exact same 7 leves. you start yours first, do them all. everyone get sh*t loads of exp. then the next person starts theirs and so on and so forth. end result is 35 leves done between the lot of you


Unfortunately (this is probably a bug) at the moment, if you have the same leve as someone else in your party, both of your leves will be completed after you do it one time as a party.
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#18 Aug 21 2010 at 12:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'll hold back from ripping the surplus exp stuff until I really figure out how it works, but right now it sounds like crap. Simply put, we pay for the game(a lot), we should be able to play however we want without restrictions. I'll throw a curveball into the mix here as well, what happens if a casual player sets aside a weekend to really level his main class only to get slapped with the surplus exp?

As for grinding in between leves...I'd like it better if there were more mobs around to kill.
#19 Aug 21 2010 at 12:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
I'll hold back from ripping the surplus exp stuff until I really figure out how it works, but right now it sounds like crap. Simply put, we pay for the game(a lot), we should be able to play however we want without restrictions. I'll throw a curveball into the mix here as well, what happens if a casual player sets aside a weekend to really level his main class only to get slapped with the surplus exp?

As for grinding in between leves...I'd like it better if there were more mobs around to kill.


I'll agree.

I think they said they were adjusting mob positioning in the next build, probably to open up more grinding camps and hopefully reduce the number of murderous death sheep roaming the landscape
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#20 Aug 21 2010 at 12:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
murderous death sheep


I find this name much more agreeable than aldgoat...
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#21 Aug 21 2010 at 12:48 AM Rating: Good
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well there's an easy way of sorting out the "same leve, both completed" issue. one person gets them, does them, next person gets them, does them. end result is still what I said.

in terms of the crafting. there are NPCs that tell you recipes, you're just not looking hard enough. and it works pretty well if you get used to knowing when to rapid, when to standard, when to do the slow craft and when to use the wait command.
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#22 Aug 21 2010 at 12:50 AM Rating: Decent
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if you get a party together the sheep are easy. gladiators can easily tank them. so then u just need a lancer or archer for constant bind attack / gravity type tp attack and you're sorted to keep it in control.
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#23 Aug 21 2010 at 12:52 AM Rating: Good
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I must be the only person who doesn't mind the grind in an MMO. It makes me wonder why people play MMOs? My reason for playing is for the social interaction, the longevity, and the experience. Keyword that i'll bring up is longevity. Do you really want to hit top level in less than 1 month and be bored for months until an expansion comes out that has 2-3 missions that last a day or 2?
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#24 Aug 21 2010 at 12:56 AM Rating: Decent
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is there any xp loss for helping someone with their leves ? if not i don't see why more people wouldn't group even if its half xp 3 people take a half from each and it is like normal one
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#25 Aug 21 2010 at 12:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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I hate to say it but if this game is as restrictive as people are making it out to be I won't play.
I don't mind the guildleves restrictions so much, it's annoying but it's like assault with a longer timer and more tags.
The surplus EXP and the restrictions they put on changing attributes seem ridiculous though, at least as they are now.

I don't understand why they would do it that way when the restrictions seem to work against each other.
They want us to try more classes but they wont let us change our attributes freely?

There's a difference between supporting casual play and forcing it on people.
I feel guilty enough paying money to play a game sometimes, I'm not paying if they're going to police everything I do.
I wonder how they treat their kids. "Ok, you've played basketball too long, go play baseball or I'm raising the hoop ten feet"

I guess we'll see how strict the penalties are at launch.

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 3:57am by Osanshouo
#26 Aug 21 2010 at 1:03 AM Rating: Decent
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the only exp loss from completing leves in a party is that if you have to many people and everyone attack different targets, you wont beable to get skill and level exp from attacking each of the mobs... so as long as you dont make to large a party for to easy of a leve you'll be fine
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#27 Aug 21 2010 at 1:07 AM Rating: Decent
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I meant that I thought you could only do a certain amount of guildleves every so often, and if you ran out of tags or whatever you could go with other people for less EXP. This really doesn't seem like a problem to me, but I know some people didn't like it. Maybe I was confusing guildleves with the surplus penalty?

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 3:08am by Osanshouo
#28 Aug 21 2010 at 1:09 AM Rating: Decent
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from what I can tell the exp isn't less if you go with others.
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#29 Aug 21 2010 at 1:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I hadn't really put two and two together but that doesn't make much sense.

I -wanted- to dabble in a few classes but the stat allocation pretty much screws me. I can't go back and forth between a melee and a caster because the stat allocation means that I need to either be mediocre in both or great in one and pathetic in the other.

Now if they want me to play multiple classes, I'm TOTALLY cool with that, but ffs let me change my stats whenever I change my class. Maybe even let me have a "melee stat set" and a "mage stat set" and toggle between the two.

Another annoyance is the abilities. Whenever you go back and forth between classes, you have to re-equip your abilities.

Every.

Single.

Time.

If you want me to switch classes, don't penalize me for it.

And if you want me to stay one class, don't penalize me for that.



Really, I'm trying to be pretty open here, SE. Either tell me you only want me to stick with one class because I can't change my stats and I don't want to waste 2-3 minutes equipping abilities every time I change classes (because of UI lag) -or- say that you're instituting a penalty for playing one class too much and make changing either.

Don't punish me for changing AND punish me for NOT changing.

If anything else, it means the only "correct" way to play is to level two classes but they both have to be the same discipline. That's the only way that the stat changes don't hurt you AND the skill swaps don't kill you.

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 3:11am by Mikhalia
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#30 Aug 21 2010 at 1:14 AM Rating: Default
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So much truth in this thread. I'm happy to finally see all the people who did not play beta yet are starting to see why everyone felt let down. I'm glad there are many things to do and ways to get a nice chunk of progress done in a short amount of time, but why force us to stop there? We're not all casual players. For me, nothing is fun in moderation.

Quote:
Didn't Tanaka-san give an interview at some point where he described the growth system as "You can play one thing and be the best at that, or you can play multiple things and be not quite as good at a lot of things"

Maybe he only meant the second one?


This is the exact same though I had earlier. I'm trying very hard to find some positive outlook on these proposals, but thus far it's not coming together for me. I just hope SE realizes what they're doing to themselves by creating a non-addictive MMO. To me that's blasphemous.


Edited, Aug 21st 2010 12:15am by GuardianFaith
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#31 Aug 21 2010 at 1:18 AM Rating: Decent
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I -wanted- to dabble in a few classes but the stat allocation pretty much screws me. I can't go back and forth between a melee and a caster because the stat allocation means that I need to either be mediocre in both or great in one and pathetic in the other.


Lol, that's not how it works at all. You are stuck in your FFXI mindset where every class must be "optimal" or it will be "gimp".

The trade-off is clear as day: if you have multiple classes available to you, your single class will be weaker but overall you'll be much more versatile as a character, capable of playing multiple roles whenever, wherever.

Especially when we get to the "diminishing returns" stage, the gap between "optimal" class build and hybrid build becomes even smaller. You might have 10 less STR than an "optimal" Gladiator but you have access to equally efficient Conjurer while the "optimal" Gladiator has not. Which one is the real gimp here?

Surplus EXP is one of the worst ideas so far, but the progression system is great. The flaw of the system is the mindset of FFXI players that are unable to look at the system from all perspectives.
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#32 Aug 21 2010 at 1:20 AM Rating: Decent
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The flaw of the system is the mindset of FFXIall mmo players that are unable to look at find any logical reasoning in the system from all perspectives.


Edited, Aug 21st 2010 12:20am by GuardianFaith
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#33 Aug 21 2010 at 1:31 AM Rating: Good
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Since this is turning into sort of a "what's wrong with the game" I think I'll add my $0.02

No way to sort inventory

No easy way to reply to tells

It takes a horrible, horrible long time to do anything involving the menus. I don't know about anyone else, but when all I want to do is NPC all the junk I'm carrying I don't want to spend 30 minutes doing it.

So far the armor looks.... for lack of a better word, drab. I don't want to look like I'm living in a 14th century british town, plus where's some variety. It's FFXI all over again with 90% of the players wearing the samr armor

Not a big fan of the crafting and gathering mini-games so far, it just makes it take way too long.

The monster check system is horribly broken, 2 "green dot" monsters, 1 you destroy, 1 rapes you and leaves you lying in the ditch

No ability to check players to see what gear they're wearing or what level they are

The controller doesn't control everything, there are still some things, menu related, that have to be done with the craptacularly slow mouse

Changes to the UI size and locations of things isn't saved, and so needs to be set each time the game is launched

The loot drops... I mean WTF?? I kill a rat, and then 20 minutes later I'm getting drops from it after I'm back in town doing something else

I'm really on the fence as to whether I'm going to get this or not. I do have the collector's edition reserved, but I'm not so sure SE is going to be able to fix all the problems the game seems to have in time.

In my opinion they should have pushed the entire launch to March 2011, not just the PS3 version.
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#34 Aug 21 2010 at 1:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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GuardianFaith wrote:
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The flaw of the system is the mindset of FFXIall mmo players that are unable to look at find any logical reasoning in the system from all perspectives.


Edited, Aug 21st 2010 12:20am by GuardianFaith


Give that man a cookie.

Seriously, it's one thing to give bonuses to casual players to encourage them but it's another to penalize anyone who ISN'T a casual player.

Yes, a conjurer with a STR of 35 and a INT of 18 is terrible.
Yes, a Pugilist with a STR of 18 and an INT of 35 is terrible.
Yes, a conjurer OR puglilist with a STR AND INT of 25 is terrible.

The game punishes you for playing one class AND it ALSO punsihes you for playing multiple class.

Story time.

During the DC sniper incident, remember when they were looking for "A white van"? I knew someone who worked in a white van.

The cops pulled him over and told him to get out. THREE officers had THREE guns on him. One told him "DON'T MOVE", another told him "GET DOWN ON THE GROUND" and another told him "GET UP AGAINST THE VAN". I am not making this **** up. Have you ever had THREE PEOPLE with GUNS on you telling you THREE DIFFERENT THINGS?

Now SE may not have a gun to our head or anything, but that's pretty much what we have. We only have two options (level one class or level multiple classes) and EITHER CHOICE will result in a penalty.

It's just stupid.

I'd be fine if they picked one. Penalize me for spending too much time on one class, fine. Penalize me for being too ADD, also fine. BUT NOT BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.
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#35 Aug 21 2010 at 1:39 AM Rating: Good
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The Surplus system is Crap, end of the surplus EXP discussion. everyone in beta send SE reports about how horrible the system is, because when i get in the game i want to go hardcore on pug (and im sure other people will want to go hardcore on a certian class too) until I get bored and want to switch. i dont want to be forced to switch classes thats just lamee!!!. I recall SE saying they want there players to feel free to do what ever they please. SE makes me think they dont want any hardcore people playing FFXIV.
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#36 Aug 21 2010 at 1:40 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know how much the points in your physical level really matter tbh. I put a ton of dex in my pug class but seem to miss tons. Maybe its just because of the poor selection of gear in beta. If you want a new weapon its **** near impossible to find unless you can maybe craft it. I'm also convinced that SE wants you to level everything in the game all crafts included. The interdependence on other crafts is heavy. I can't even imagine the staggering amount of materials I'm going to need to sock away to repair my cloth stuff and metal stuff.

I suppose I could rant on lots wrong but I'm trying to be optimistic and just wait for release.
#37 Aug 21 2010 at 1:46 AM Rating: Default
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1,457 posts
Quote:
The Surplus system is Crap, end of the surplus EXP discussion. everyone in beta send SE reports about how horrible the system is, because when i get in the game i want to go hardcore on pug (and im sure other people will want to go hardcore on a certian class too) until I get bored and want to switch. i dont want to be forced to switch classes thats just lamee!!!.


The only thing I can really say about this is that it's a lot like being forced to level your subjob in FFXI. I was under the impression that this was not to be like FFXI though. Oh well.


Quote:
I suppose I could rant on lots wrong but I'm trying to be optimistic and just wait for release.


I can dig that. *Saged you btw. Congratulations.

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 12:48am by GuardianFaith

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 12:49am by GuardianFaith
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#38 Aug 21 2010 at 1:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Lol, that's not how it works at all. You are stuck in your FFXI mindset where every class must be "optimal" or it will be "gimp".

The trade-off is clear as day: if you have multiple classes available to you, your single class will be weaker but overall you'll be much more versatile as a character, capable of playing multiple roles whenever, wherever.

Especially when we get to the "diminishing returns" stage, the gap between "optimal" class build and hybrid build becomes even smaller. You might have 10 less STR than an "optimal" Gladiator but you have access to equally efficient Conjurer while the "optimal" Gladiator has not. Which one is the real gimp here?


You shouldn't have to plan ahead for that one hybrid class you're going to make later...if I think it would be cool to mix pugilist with conjurer/thaumaturge ...I still want to have loads of dex/str/vit on pug and int/mnd/pie with the other 2...if I keep my stats balanced, I'm gimped when I level all 3 of those jobs individually...

I think I should be able to have an optimal stat setup for when I level pug, another for thm & conj...and yet another for whatever hybrid monstrosity I come up with between the 3(maybe a few different hybrid builds), then I'd really be versatile & kick ***...or do I ask for too much?
#39 Aug 21 2010 at 1:49 AM Rating: Good
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150 posts
Quote:
The trade-off is clear as day: if you have multiple classes available to you, your single class will be weaker but overall you'll be much more versatile as a character, capable of playing multiple roles whenever, wherever.

I think that, if a character that has attributes set to play both conjurer and gladiator is able to tank an HNM effectively, a gladiator with perfect stats would be completely broken.

It really feels like this game is taking a lot of steps backwards when it comes to versatility.
In ffxi you could have the the best PLD ever, change jobs and have the best BLM ever. (With the exception of merits and some other stuff.)
Now they're telling us we have to choose, why should we have less freedom in FFXIV than FFXI in any way.

Some people are acting like this is a great thing and will remove elitism completely from the game.
I don't think it will, I think if you want to do end game seriously you will have to either stick to one class or purchase multiple characters either from community pressure or for better functionality.

I can't stress enough how disgustingly obvious the fact that additional characters will be $3 each seems to scream this.
I really hope I'm wrong but I think they're going to try and get us for everything we've got with this game.
Prepare for hoards of $10 miniexpansions and buyable game items via crystal currency or whatever it's called.

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 3:51am by Osanshouo
#40 Aug 21 2010 at 1:49 AM Rating: Good
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258 posts
Quote:
The only thing I can really say about this is that it's a lot like being forced to level your subjob in FFXI. I was under the impression that this was not to be like FFXI though. Oh well.


In FFXI you where not forced to lvl your subjob.. you where just gimped if you didnt. FFXIV is forcing you to lvl another class with the surplus EXP
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#41 Aug 21 2010 at 1:52 AM Rating: Good
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. . .and you some of you guys were worried about the universal base stats for all races.

Little did you know how bad it would really be, muhuwahaha. -SE
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#42 Aug 21 2010 at 1:52 AM Rating: Good
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FFXIV is starting to sound like a mini Communist MMO.
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#43 Aug 21 2010 at 1:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mathisyn wrote:


So far the armor looks.... for lack of a better word, drab. I don't want to look like I'm living in a 14th century british town, plus where's some variety. It's FFXI all over again with 90% of the players wearing the samr armor


I like how FFXI's armor looks. I've never been a fan of armor with giant shoulder pads and glowing runes all over it with everything either surrounded by floating crystals or on fire.

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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#44 Aug 21 2010 at 1:59 AM Rating: Default
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Lobivopis wrote:
Mathisyn wrote:


So far the armor looks.... for lack of a better word, drab. I don't want to look like I'm living in a 14th century british town, plus where's some variety. It's FFXI all over again with 90% of the players wearing the samr armor


I like how FFXI's armor looks. I've never been a fan of armor with giant shoulder pads and glowing runes all over it with everything either surrounded by floating crystals or on fire.



If anyone rates you down for this, they're a troll. I like giant shoulder pads with glowing runes, but I can totally see why some people don't. I think it's o.k. that SE stuck with classic armor designs, but he does have a point on the lack of variety. SE even proudly presented us with a video of how they're reusing the same models over and over again, again. . .
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#45 Aug 21 2010 at 2:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Well this sounds like I should cancel my pre-order right this minute. Didn't they hear anybody when we told them what sucked about FFXI? This entire business about grinding being standard within FFXIV really has me depressed. Not to mention how slow it sounds this game is running for everybody. I'm not just hearing this news here, it's all over the internet with MMORPG being told how unbelievable it is that the developers dropped the ball intentionally.

#46 Aug 21 2010 at 2:04 AM Rating: Good
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I was reading this thread and i got thinking. If we all here developed a game, or even just a few of us, and we put our own ideas in it. Our own thoughts on how things should work.. well not even that. What if we wanted to see how things would work if we set up a specific way of doing things. So we all think HEY! what a great idea! lets do it! And before it even launched, before people even tried it, they were saying how horrible it is of an idea it was without really even knowing the finer points to it.
Would we:
1) Automaticly drop said idea just to make them happy after spending a few years with the idea?
2) Just do what we want to do because it took so long to make? Costly too..
3) Test it out on a Huge number of people for a while, make adjustments to it as we go in order to compromise with what we and our players want?
Please try to answer seriously. Think about it before you answer

If anybody can make this a poll, id be intrested in seeings peoples responce

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 4:05am by Puppy1
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#47 Aug 21 2010 at 2:10 AM Rating: Good
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GuardianFaith wrote:
Lobivopis wrote:
Mathisyn wrote:


So far the armor looks.... for lack of a better word, drab. I don't want to look like I'm living in a 14th century british town, plus where's some variety. It's FFXI all over again with 90% of the players wearing the samr armor


I like how FFXI's armor looks. I've never been a fan of armor with giant shoulder pads and glowing runes all over it with everything either surrounded by floating crystals or on fire.



If anyone rates you down for this, they're a troll. I like giant shoulder pads with glowing runes, but I can totally see why some people don't. I think it's o.k. that SE stuck with classic armor designs, but he does have a point on the lack of variety. SE even proudly presented us with a video of how they're reusing the same models over and over again, again. . .


I agree, I also like the giant shoulder pads with glowy lights and floaty fragments, it fits with the design of WoW. As far as FFXIV, I just wish there were more options, everyone's wearing the same robe, the same hat, the same pants, no matter what class they are.
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#48 Aug 21 2010 at 2:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Puppy1 wrote:
I was reading this thread and i got thinking. If we all here developed a game, or even just a few of us, and we put our own ideas in it. Our own thoughts on how things should work.. well not even that. What if we wanted to see how things would work if we set up a specific way of doing things. So we all think HEY! what a great idea! lets do it! And before it even launched, before people even tried it, they were saying how horrible it is of an idea it was without really even knowing the finer points to it.
Would we:
1) Automaticly drop said idea just to make them happy after spending a few years with the idea?
2) Just do what we want to do because it took so long to make? Costly too..
3) Test it out on a Huge number of people for a while, make adjustments to it as we go in order to compromise with what we and our players want?
Please try to answer seriously. Think about it before you answer

If anybody can make this a poll, id be intrested in seeings peoples responce

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 4:05am by Puppy1


They've had years of feedback and 8 years of MMO experience to figure out what people like and dislike. I'd figure players being told that they can't play how they like to play would have been the first thing SE worked in to their new project.

Quote:
everyone's wearing the same robe, the same hat, the same pants, no matter what class they are.
----------------------------


Yeah SE didn't figure out the whole choose your reward thing yet, so we're stuck wearing pointy hats on DD classes again.

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 1:12am by GuardianFaith
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#49 Aug 21 2010 at 2:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Crap, so... basically if I decide to play a specific class everyday for a few hours and I somehow hit the "Surplus EXP" cap then I more or less can't use that job anymore for the duration of 2 days? That's totally weak.... But about that surplus thing, how badly are you penalized? Normally you get like 100% EXP... How much do you still receive after that? Also, I really don't see what's the big deal if you get some hardcore players out there, what harm is it gonna actually do? If anything this surplus thing sounds like a bad attempt at controlling RMT before it has a chance to start.

And on the subject of the leve cooldown timers, does the cooldown essentially start after you accept your first guildleve? Or does it work where you can do 8 leves spanning across days/weeks and once you complete your 8th it makes you wait another 48 hours before you can do 8 more?

Plus one more about the attributes, how long is the wait time before you can change your attribute allocation? Can you change them all at once or is it one stat/point then a waiting period?
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#50 Aug 21 2010 at 2:13 AM Rating: Good
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GuardianFaith wrote:

They've had years of feedback and 8 years of MMO experience to figure out what people like and dislike. I'd figure players being told that they can't play how they like to play would have been the first thing SE worked in to their new project.


Okay so is that 1 2 or 3 for a choice
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#51 Aug 21 2010 at 2:16 AM Rating: Good
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150 posts
The only legitimate excuse for restricting someones play in the form of some cool down or something in my opinion is to discourage people from developing an unhealthy addiction to a game.
I've heard there are some games that do things like this and even lock you out completely after a certain amount of time.
As great as these intentions may seem they don't really solve the problem.
A person with an addictive personality will just find something else to be addictive to, whether its another mmo or something else, and a lot of the time people like that have social problems or phobias anyway.

I guess this is kind of off topic but I'm just trying to think about why they would do this.
It doesn't make sense to me that they just want you to try more classes because people will do that anyway, and I don't want to believe that they really care so little of their fanbase after all these years that they would do it for money.
Maybe they're still tripping about the guy who got sick because of Pandemonium Warden.
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