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Poll: Solo vs groupFollow

#1 Aug 21 2010 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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    Thanks Wint, Please see his post below for the actual working poll.

F: So soloing will be the basis of the game?

DK: Yes. More than a one-man army, it's more of a slow-and-steady kind of thing. In FFXI many things weren't possible solo, so we'd like to avoid that from developing this time around.
What do you think of soloing being the core of the game?
It's great! I hate grouping anyways. :18 (18.2%)
I don't mind, I have no preference to either one. :36 (36.4%)
This is a huge mistake, the game will die if solo is the main emphasis of gameplay.:45 (45.5%)
Total:99




Edited, Aug 21st 2010 10:11am by Imaboomer

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 11:05am by Imaboomer
#2 Aug 21 2010 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
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It depends on my mood. I was a whm in ffxi so I almost never had a problem getting into a group but I know that alot of the other jobs had long waits. I'd rather solo then wait around doing nothing.
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#3 Aug 21 2010 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Poll is only available to Premium Members.
Personally when I do start the game, I'll be doing a mix of both. Mostly solo play as I work 10 hours a day, plus have other obligations. On top of that, most of my gamer friends no longer play MMOs so I'll have to start meeting new people to play with.

*Edit* So I guess my choice would be #2. I don't mind either way, and since it's the start of a new game, it will likely change considerably over the life of the game. I mean, look at how FFXI went from extreme grind sessions to having soloability and quick xp/merit gain.

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 10:24am by WileyJT
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#4 Aug 21 2010 at 8:28 AM Rating: Good
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Parties should be faster, since you have access to more leves.
Soloing is slower (when compared to parties), but you go at your own pace without waiting 3 hours for a party.

Personally, I think I'll mostly stick to parties as it makes the game a lot more interesting, in my opinion.
As for the waiting time, you can always craft/gather while waiting, making gil in the process.

Soloing should be an option, yes, but if I really wanted to solo until endgame, I might as well play a single player game.
#5 Aug 21 2010 at 8:30 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
[question]What do you think of soloing being the core of the game?[/question]
[choice]It's great! I hate grouping anyways. [/choice]
[choice]I don't mind, I have no preference to either one. [/choice]
[choice]This is a huge mistake, the game will die if solo is the main emphasis of gameplay.[/choice]


[Choice]This is a huge mistake, the comunity will be nothing like FFXI and we will feel like in WoW.[/choice]
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#6 Aug 21 2010 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Imaboomer wrote:
F: So soloing will be the basis of the game?

DK: Yes. More than a one-man army, it's more of a slow-and-steady kind of thing. In FFXI many things weren't possible solo, so we'd like to avoid that from developing this time around.
Poll Removed: No more than one per thread, please!

Poll doesnt work!!!

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 10:11am by Imaboomer


Here you go.
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#7 Aug 21 2010 at 8:33 AM Rating: Decent
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This is a huge mistake, the comunity will be nothing like FFXI and we will feel like in WoW.


I wouldn't judge the game so quickly.
Perhaps you could stick to your old FFXI LS, making parties like the good ol' days.
Remember that leveling is not everything, as there are plenty of things to do in game.

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 10:34am by Skibit
#8 Aug 21 2010 at 8:50 AM Rating: Decent
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i voted on option 2. I don't mind either way. There are times I love to get together with friends and beat the crap outta stuff and there are times were I'd like to go it alone.
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#9 Aug 21 2010 at 9:39 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Quote:
This is a huge mistake, the comunity will be nothing like FFXI and we will feel like in WoW.

I wouldn't judge the game so quickly.
Perhaps you could stick to your old FFXI LS, making parties like the good ol' days.
Remember that leveling is not everything, as there are plenty of things to do in game.


IMO it's the people who are hungry to level/skill up that would be the supporters of solo play as their main reason to look for it is because "it takes too long to look for party"

The reason why I would prefer a more party driven gameplay is because in my limited experience in MMOPRG (FFXI, WoW) there was a huge difference between player's maturity and in my view this was because how easy WoW was in comparison with other games.

I might be wrong but if FFXIV gets to be as easy to play as WoW then most likkly you will get a huge influx of players (great for SE, not so much for the FFXI playerbase) that will create a carbon copy of the comunity in WoW.
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#10 Aug 21 2010 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
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I love soloing/small group because it lets me jump on and off the game whenever I have free time to play. I hated waiting an hour or two to find a party and then either feeling bad when I have to leave or staying on longer than I planned so everyone else wouldn't be inconvenienced. Party play should still be an option for those who enjoy it and want to play that way, but those of us who like to solo should be able to experience most/all of the game content too. I think it's more about giving players the choice to play the way they want to play than promoting one over the other.
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#11 Aug 21 2010 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't mind soloing considering I don't like to waste time getting a group together...that's time better spent playing. If they had a good system to better allow for quick formations of groups I wouldn't mind grouping.
#12 Aug 21 2010 at 12:03 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't really like any of the poll options, but I guess I will vote for the no, the game will fail option. I don't really like to give predictions, and I think the last option kind of gives a bad image of the people who do like to group up. I went with the last option anyways though because the only way to keep my attention by grinding (quest grinding counts too) solo is by having world pvp to distract me.
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#13 Aug 21 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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Like in the previous 800 threads on solo vs group I still think that partying should form the backbone of the game as that was a big part of what made FF11 such a great game while WoW and the crowd quickly got boring.
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#14 Aug 21 2010 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you're making an MMOG, it -should- require you to play with other people. If it isn't going to require you to group then just release it as a single player game like the rest of the series.

If I wanted that, I'd play FF12 and leave IRC open on my laptop.
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#15 Aug 21 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
I don't mind that people have the option to solo all the way, I'm a little bothered that solo/ guild leves seem to be the main emphasis of the game. Repeatable content of this type works as filler, but I've never seen it work as the central content of a game. Usually people get bored extremely quickly repeating the same generic kill quests, and then they say "where's the content?"

I really don't understand why a structure that's like FFXI would not work, and then just add on guild leves as a bonus feature that will allow people with limited schedules to log on and rock out for an hour or two. Obviously that's not what S-E is after, but I have a hard time imagining what the "typical" player will be like. Maybe some one who wants to spend the majority of their time crafting.
#16 Aug 21 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
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One thing to keep in mind about WoW is the game does allow for soloing, but does encourage group play a great deal. You could solo your way to max level, but good gear came from dungeons which also gave good exp. WoW has also translated this to it's current end game where you have daily's to get gold, but if you actually want good gear you have to group up. Though with WoW's current design destroys community rather than builds it, focuses on making welfaretastic, and total lack of immersion kills the game.
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#17 Aug 21 2010 at 5:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Reasons why I think solo is a big part of the beta right now and why it will change if you give it time -

1. They need to fix the LFG feature. I would EXPECT them to implement a new LFG system, and if they don't I'll be shocked.

2. A lot of people are still in the noob/low level part of the game where partying is not necesary.

3. There aren't a lot of leves/quests available right now that require help. I expect in the future that in order to get the 'good loot' from the leves like that mandatory armor or conjurer staff that all the good players use that you don't have yet, you will probably need the party of 5 to do it. Play the same leve solo and you prob get gil and an anti-aggro potion.

4. Not a lot of area yet. I expect the map to open up to allow a lot more areas for xping. LL is a tiny island compared to the mainland and it's not even 100% accessible yet.
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#18 Aug 21 2010 at 5:56 PM Rating: Default
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The best part of FFXI was forcing you to group to do missions to progress in the story. SE has clearly stated that they want it to be soloable this time so that solo players can play the content of the game.
#19 Aug 21 2010 at 7:04 PM Rating: Good
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This may sound strange, but I liked the challenge of soloing in FFXI because SE didn't cater to the solo experience. (If that makes any sense).

I liked soloing most of my Ninja AF and soloing with DRG, because it was a challenge.

Now WoW soloing was too easy and the only interaction you would have with other players was them ganking you. And of course raids and some quests in endgame.

But since more and more evidence is coming in, it sounds like FFXIV is taking more from the WoW playbook. But I don't really think this is a bad thing.

I loved grouping when I was in the group at a camp. It was just the periphery; waiting for group, traveling times and finding the optimal group setting, that I hated.

If there was less emphasis on an optimal party set-up (much like a cue from a FPS) where people could auto group then that might not be too bad.

And even though I really like both grouping and soloing, I don't want to be forced to do either and I hope they offer some kind of incentives to group but keep the solo option viable.

As you can tell I'm kind of fragmented at the moment. I loved how the FFXI community was tight-knit and close, however this was due in large part to the party/group system. Though since I really couldn't group all of the time and spent my time grinding and soloing I didn't really get to experience that anyway.

Honestly the social part for me doesn't really matter that much. I'm playing this game primarily to be lost in the FFXIV world and enjoy the sights and sounds while I'm there. And I think SE's main goal is to attract that big middle group with the solo portion.

If this game can cater to the casual, i.e. more people, it won't die it will be the opposite. It will grow to 10x what FFXI was. Now it may turn out to be soulless, but that's a different question.

#20 Aug 22 2010 at 6:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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None of the above.

I mean, I like grouping. But I like grouping up with friends that I meet for fun, or to take on a big challenge like a boss fight or something. But I don't want to have to DEPEND on grouping every single time I log into the game. It just wastes so much time trying to put a group together. Time that could be better spent actually PLAYING the game.

I would think, however, that with something like the guildleve system in place, if they would make the rewards for HELPING someone with a guildleve equal or slightly better than the base reward, that would very much encourage grouping up for that. If that were the case, I'd spend more time trying to help other people with their guildleves and then if no one was around to help, do my own.

Edited, Aug 22nd 2010 8:07am by Autumnfire
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#21 Aug 22 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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A question:

How do you even lfp anyway? I have no clue how to look for a party or how to find players that are looking for a party. That's a GIANT hurdle when it comes to partying.
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#22 Aug 22 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
A question:

How do you even lfp anyway? I have no clue how to look for a party or how to find players that are looking for a party. That's a GIANT hurdle when it comes to partying.


Only thing I've learned about that is how to invite people and accept/decline invitations...and search for members...but no idea if there's anything to say you're looking for pt and what kind you're looking for

As for the solo/group...right now low-level solo is friggin' annoying cause there's like 100-1 ration of players to easy mobs lol, it's like NM claiming to get the rat that just spawned...
And yea the poll is a bit extreme on the answers, I think soloing is great, but I don't hate to group up...

Edited, Aug 22nd 2010 4:33pm by TwistedOwl
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#23 Aug 22 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
If you're making an MMOG, it -should- require you to play with other people. If it isn't going to require you to group then just release it as a single player game like the rest of the series.

If I wanted that, I'd play FF12 and leave IRC open on my laptop.


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#24 Aug 22 2010 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
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I don't really like party play in XIV from what I've experienced of it. XI encouraged teamwork and cooperation. XIV encourages zerging mobs to hog the skill points for yourself. In XIV, party members compete against each other rather than work together. The only point I can see in partying is doing leves that are too difficult to solo at your current rank. But once I realized I could solo a rank 20 leve without too much difficulty at rank 14 and get better exp doing it, I no longer see any reason to.
#25 Aug 22 2010 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
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KarlHungis Delivers on Time wrote:
I don't mind that people have the option to solo all the way, I'm a little bothered that solo/ guild leves seem to be the main emphasis of the game. Repeatable content of this type works as filler, but I've never seen it work as the central content of a game. Usually people get bored extremely quickly repeating the same generic kill quests, and then they say "where's the content?"

I really don't understand why a structure that's like FFXI would not work, and then just add on guild leves as a bonus feature that will allow people with limited schedules to log on and rock out for an hour or two. Obviously that's not what S-E is after, but I have a hard time imagining what the "typical" player will be like. Maybe some one who wants to spend the majority of their time crafting.


I completely agree with you here.

I will reserve judgement until I get to play the retail version, but as it stands now I have to say I am disappointed. I wasn't looking for FFXI-II, but I had an envision in my head of what their new baby would be like, and this playstyle isn't exactly what I had in mind. I think this is why many of us are upset.

I am all for the option of the casual gamer getting an advantage for limited time, of which I'll just consider in my head it's like an EXP bonus.

On the bright side, all of this can be changed. If we've learned anything with MMORPG's, they change drastically during their lifestyle, so I'll play and keep my fingers crossed that SE gets closer and closer to what I was hoping for :)

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#26 Aug 22 2010 at 6:48 PM Rating: Default
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I'll get the game like anyone else, but solo MMORPG's get boring really fast. This was why the only MMO that lasted me over two years was FFXI. EQ2 was actually hardcore during launch but people demanded SOE to make it solo-friendly and EQ2 became a WoW clone with a different outer shell.

This quote from Sage Sundi gives me hope though:
Quote:
SS: We got a lot of feedback about that, and all the feedback was consistent; players’ first concern was the user interface, then the merits of party play. Thanks to this, we know what everyone is focusing on.


Edited, Aug 22nd 2010 8:56pm by Imaboomer
#27 Aug 22 2010 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
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I support grp play over soloing and this is how i see it.

I think SE is misleading causal players to get their attention.. they are going to make it soloable... but could become extremely difficult as you go into higher levels. I not sure abt the storyline being soloable cos that make it sound like there will be more cutscences and traveling den actual battle.

Some of the battle content is missing when you play solo, like breaking a spefic monster part or skill chaining. Almost all spell/skill has some form of AoE, showing its more toward a grp vs grp type of combat. SE are still designing the game based on group but saying the game is focusing on solo. (Rather i think SE is saying FFXIV is focusing more on solo den FFXI was)

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#28 Aug 22 2010 at 8:21 PM Rating: Excellent
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
A question:

How do you even lfp anyway? I have no clue how to look for a party or how to find players that are looking for a party. That's a GIANT hurdle when it comes to partying.


You perform a search. It is a little difficult to explain without the UI in front of me but there is a search option under party and then you click either recruit or the other button (can't remember the name) recruit is for starting your own party - I tried this and it worked. After you click recruit first you choose what sort of job you are looking for - you can choose either a discipline as a whole or a specific job. You can add more than one slot if you are say wanting 1 DoW and 1 DoM, for example. Then you choose the level range and write a comment if you wish. Then it allows people using the other option to automatically join for up to an hour (not sure if you can change that option).

When I did it I kind of gave up and had switched to Botanist and was logging and stuff when out of the blue a JP lalafell meeting my conditions joined up with me. She was super nice, could speak some English and didn't mind if I did... and so I changed back to Pug and we did some great grinding on puks.

I've actually been doing small parties for most of my exp - and out of the three parties I did 2 were with strangers, and they lasted a good while (got a few levels). Duoing seems to be really supported and you get good exp.
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#29 Aug 22 2010 at 8:27 PM Rating: Excellent
FilliamHMuffman wrote:
I don't really like party play in XIV from what I've experienced of it. XI encouraged teamwork and cooperation. XIV encourages zerging mobs to hog the skill points for yourself. In XIV, party members compete against each other rather than work together. The only point I can see in partying is doing leves that are too difficult to solo at your current rank. But once I realized I could solo a rank 20 leve without too much difficulty at rank 14 and get better exp doing it, I no longer see any reason to.


really? I find what twisted owl said above to be true - especially at lower levels there are no mobs so it is a REALLY good idea to party up and tackle some slightly harder stuff because I found a really limited prey selection especially at say level 3 where rats give crap exp and there isn't much else that won't kill you.

As for the zerging thing, maybe that has been your experience but I was actually encouraging the CON I was partying with to use a lot of spirit dart to save MP and get better skill ups. When mobs were easy I was actually under damaging to enhance skill points for both of us (as a pug). We were both gettin between 150-250 job points per fight and unlike the poor saps who were trying to grind on the lowest level content we weren't spending half an hour searching out a single sewer mole.
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#30 Aug 22 2010 at 8:30 PM Rating: Good
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My choice was the second, I really don't mind either way, and rather than making the game 100% to either way, I think is better to take a middle approach.

Groping for experience never really worked completely well in ffxi, as much as it was forced, no body can negate the time wasted while waiting for an invite and/or the hazard of making the party by yourself, exceptions aside, most of us resort to find another form of entrainment while looking for party (tv, another games, ls chat, etc), let's not touch the unending line of complainants generated by leaving the quality of your xp/hr in the hands or others.

On the other hand cooperative play must be evncouraged, otherwise there is no much reason to play a MMORPG, but I bet quests, history line missions and the EndGame activities to come will bring a lot of room for group play.

For once, I'm glad for the chance to level alone.

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#31 Aug 22 2010 at 8:52 PM Rating: Good
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Soloing is definitely not the way to go now in beta but the xp system in place is a mess, I don't understand it at all - sometimes I get 2 skill ups, and the next mob directly will give me like 200 skill ups (same type of mob) so i'm gonna assume its either broken or very confusing. I think party play however, between 2-6 people in a party, is good xp generally and is definitely a lot faster progression than solo play.
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#32 Aug 22 2010 at 8:56 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
As for the zerging thing, maybe that has been your experience but I was actually encouraging the CON I was partying with to use a lot of spirit dart to save MP and get better skill ups.


Yea exactly this though - you get more xp based on how much skills you've used in a battle (or so it seems)...for some reason, with my conjurer, I barely get any xp when i nuke but with spirit dart i get plenty...I do not like this one bit...this makes CON play a different role than they should during party play imo.
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#33 Aug 22 2010 at 9:05 PM Rating: Good
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As for the zerging thing, maybe that has been your experience but I was actually encouraging the CON I was partying with to use a lot of spirit dart to save MP and get better skill ups.


Yea exactly this though - you get more xp based on how much skills you've used in a battle (or so it seems)...for some reason, with my conjurer, I barely get any xp when i nuke but with spirit dart i get plenty...I do not like this one bit...this makes CON play a different role than they should during party play imo.


Well considering how difficult SE is making it to get mp (btw neither my Thaumaturge OR my Conjurer got their level 1 MP restoration ability - it just isn't there) I don't see how this is so. With abilities like second wind and the out of battle auto-regen, I don't get the sense that the role of a con is meant to spam heal. I for one am actually happy that SE is breaking the holy trio cliche.
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#34 Aug 22 2010 at 10:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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I definitely fall into the camp of a strong soloing presence being present as a necessity, especially when dealing with storyline missions, level cap missions and whatnot. Simply out of need or reflex, some of the playerbase will find out which "jobs" work better than others, and slowly relegate the ones that lack utility or [enough] output to the wayside. Thus, it's important to support a basic way for everyone to enjoy the basic, main content that they're paying for, regardless of usefulness.
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