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Surplus XP pollFollow

#1 Aug 21 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Good
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First, an apology. Yes, I'm well aware that there are too many threads on surplus XP with people bickering about it. If you wanna bicker, bicker in the thread of your choice. Bicker here if you want. You have my apology for adding more **** to the pile. I'm just throwing in a poll and logically deduced that creating a new thread would garner more votes than posting a poll in the middle of an existing one.

How do you feel about Surplus XP?
It -will- affect me adversely, and if it were up to me, I would remove or change it.:92 (68.7%)
It -would have- affected me adversely, but I thought about it and I am fine with leaving it as-is.:18 (13.4%)
It -does not- affect me adversely in any way, but I am still against the idea and feel it should be removed or changed.:15 (11.2%)
It -would never- affect me anyway, and I believe it should remain unchanged.:9 (6.7%)
Total:134
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#2 Aug 21 2010 at 5:17 PM Rating: Good
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Lol oh what, first vote.. :3
#3 Aug 21 2010 at 5:19 PM Rating: Excellent
I'm waiting to see more info on how it will play out.

I've always assumed it was their way of making us keep our 'sub-jobs' leveled.
#4PerrinofSylph, Posted: Aug 21 2010 at 5:26 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) As a person who tried THF/SAM THF/BLU THF/BRD and got ridiculed (sorry I'm too lazy to spellcheck in less time than it would have taken to type this)...
#5 Aug 21 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
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SE will reveal that surplus XP can be traded in for FFXIV's version of Kraken Clubs and Relics.
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#6 Aug 21 2010 at 5:32 PM Rating: Good
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dont punish players for playing a single class, reward them for not. Its that simple.
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#7 Aug 21 2010 at 5:33 PM Rating: Good
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PerrinofSylph wrote:
I'm not sure about the whole ordeal. In a way I think it's good. Force DD types to do support roles etc, shouldn't be a lack of the tank and healer type roles like there is in every other MMO, granted they ight suck because "I'm only leveling because I have to..." but ya never know.


I'd be totally cool with it, because I -wanted- to be a PUG, LAN, and CON/THAU. But the way the stats are setup, I have to pick DoW -or- DoM and can't do both. With Surplus XP, I'd just be bouncing back and forth between PUG, LAN, and probably GLA or MAR.

I'm just getting frustrated because initially my plan was all like "Hey, I'm gonna be a PUG and a LAN and a MIN and a CON and a GLA and a LW and a BOT and..." and then I had to change that to "Okay, I guess I gotta pick one or two jobs and stick with it".

Sidenote: I REALLY wish they would make jobs save the abilities you had equipped instead of making you re-equip. I'd love to be punching something, then change to botanist and harvest a tree, then go back to PUG and go back to punching and see a mining point, change to that... But every time I change out of PUG, it takes me 1 mins to switch weapons, then another min to switch back and 2-3 to re-equip my abilities. I chalk this up largely to "it's just beta" lag, but I'd really love to have my abilities saved when changing jobs. Kinda the opposite complaint of surplus XP but meh.
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#8Imaboomer, Posted: Aug 21 2010 at 5:45 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) FFXI- we were forced to level our subjobs and do subjob quest
#9 Aug 21 2010 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
PerrinofSylph wrote:
I'm not sure about the whole ordeal. In a way I think it's good. Force DD types to do support roles etc, shouldn't be a lack of the tank and healer type roles like there is in every other MMO, granted they ight suck because "I'm only leveling because I have to..." but ya never know.


I'd be totally cool with it, because I -wanted- to be a PUG, LAN, and CON/THAU. But the way the stats are setup, I have to pick DoW -or- DoM and can't do both. With Surplus XP, I'd just be bouncing back and forth between PUG, LAN, and probably GLA or MAR.

I'm just getting frustrated because initially my plan was all like "Hey, I'm gonna be a PUG and a LAN and a MIN and a CON and a GLA and a LW and a BOT and..." and then I had to change that to "Okay, I guess I gotta pick one or two jobs and stick with it".

Sidenote: I REALLY wish they would make jobs save the abilities you had equipped instead of making you re-equip. I'd love to be punching something, then change to botanist and harvest a tree, then go back to PUG and go back to punching and see a mining point, change to that... But every time I change out of PUG, it takes me 1 mins to switch weapons, then another min to switch back and 2-3 to re-equip my abilities. I chalk this up largely to "it's just beta" lag, but I'd really love to have my abilities saved when changing jobs. Kinda the opposite complaint of surplus XP but meh.


And when you've hit the surplus for your classes, you have nothing to do (at least in my case). Guess I'll go rank up yet another DoW.../sigh.
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#10 Aug 21 2010 at 5:56 PM Rating: Good
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Sidenote: I REALLY wish they would make jobs save the abilities you had equipped instead of making you re-equip. I'd love to be punching something, then change to botanist and harvest a tree, then go back to PUG and go back to punching and see a mining point, change to that... But every time I change out of PUG, it takes me 1 mins to switch weapons, then another min to switch back and 2-3 to re-equip my abilities. I chalk this up largely to "it's just beta" lag, but I'd really love to have my abilities saved when changing jobs. Kinda the opposite complaint of surplus XP but meh.


I haven't tried it myself, but the advice I've received is to set up a template macro for each job (read: class and abilities). It's not as good as auto-fitting your old setup, but imho it's better than nothing.
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#11 Aug 21 2010 at 6:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's really a simple matter of pyschology. Reward players for doing what you want them to do, rather than punishing them for doing things you don't want them to do. Horse and carrot rather than horse and whip.

Honestly it's a bit worrisome that SE still doesn't consider the basic psychological tenants of gaming when developing mechanics. Gaming is still very much a trial and error thing to them, it seems.
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#12 Aug 21 2010 at 6:07 PM Rating: Good
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PLDXavier, Defender of Justice wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Sidenote: I REALLY wish they would make jobs save the abilities you had equipped instead of making you re-equip. I'd love to be punching something, then change to botanist and harvest a tree, then go back to PUG and go back to punching and see a mining point, change to that... But every time I change out of PUG, it takes me 1 mins to switch weapons, then another min to switch back and 2-3 to re-equip my abilities. I chalk this up largely to "it's just beta" lag, but I'd really love to have my abilities saved when changing jobs. Kinda the opposite complaint of surplus XP but meh.


I haven't tried it myself, but the advice I've received is to set up a template macro for each job (read: class and abilities). It's not as good as auto-fitting your old setup, but imho it's better than nothing.


Could you give me an example? Like if I want to set Concussive Blow to 2, Light Strike to 3, Trunksplitter to 4, and Second Wind to 5, how would I do all that in one macro?
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#13 Aug 21 2010 at 8:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I have to agree with how this is beyond the wrong way to handle things. Reward>punishment, I have surplus on 2 classes atm and possibly my physical level as well. Should I be forced to level another class? **** no. My main gripe with the system as it stands is the fact I have surplus on my botanist, which was leveled to go hand in hand with my carpenter and weaver. Now this is a disciple of the land class. What the **** am I supposed to switch to? Miner? I already have more than enough ore tucked away, so what would the point be. Fishing? I don't cook. I would gladly work on crafting, but the menu lag and absolutely no clue on what recipes are possible for me. Right now this game is ******* off it beta testers, they didn't need to add this to the equation.
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#14 Aug 21 2010 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

Could you give me an example? Like if I want to set Concussive Blow to 2, Light Strike to 3, Trunksplitter to 4, and Second Wind to 5, how would I do all that in one macro?


/equip main "Weathered Hora"
/eaction 2 "Concussive Blow"
/eaction 3 "Light Strike"
/eaction 4 Trunksplitter
/eaction 5 "Second Wind"

The only one up there I'm not sure of is Light Strike because I'm not completely sure whether you can move your default attack skill around the action bar, but if you can.. that's how
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#15 Aug 21 2010 at 8:23 PM Rating: Decent
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It -would have- affected me adversely, but I thought about it and I am fine with leaving it as-is.

OMG really? why?

Tweezle120 from another thread wrote:
It really is the same thing as WoW's rest system mechanically: play a whole bunch and get less XP, Play after a long rest and get more.

They should focus on rewarding class switches (+xp bonuses for a class you haven't played in a while) rather than -xp penalties for one you've played too much. It would accomplish the same thing, without the negative connotations that will have them ripped apart by the media.

Which that means I endorse the system either way and am just arguing over pretty names... Which makes the issue seem less substantial really.

It will all depends very heavily on what cannot be argued now: the exact number balances on launch. Just how damaging are these penalties? Just how long do they take to recede?
#16 Aug 21 2010 at 8:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

Could you give me an example? Like if I want to set Concussive Blow to 2, Light Strike to 3, Trunksplitter to 4, and Second Wind to 5, how would I do all that in one macro?


/equip main "Weathered Hora"
/eaction 2 "Concussive Blow"
/eaction 3 "Light Strike"
/eaction 4 Trunksplitter
/eaction 5 "Second Wind"

The only one up there I'm not sure of is Light Strike because I'm not completely sure whether you can move your default attack skill around the action bar, but if you can.. that's how


There is no need to add light strike to the macro. Whenever you switch weapons, the default ability is always automatically placed in slot 1.

So, yeah you can make a pretty complete macro for each job change, skills and all. If you want a true complete macro (including gear swaps) you will need to use 2 different macros since they have a 10 line limit.

Edit: If there are some skills you use alot with several classes, just equip those skills in slots 11-20. This frees up slots on your first 10, frees up macro lines for other actions, and will always be there w/o having to macro them in.

Edited, Aug 21st 2010 10:35pm by Teneleven
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#17 Aug 21 2010 at 8:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Teneleven wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

Could you give me an example? Like if I want to set Concussive Blow to 2, Light Strike to 3, Trunksplitter to 4, and Second Wind to 5, how would I do all that in one macro?


/equip main "Weathered Hora"
/eaction 2 "Concussive Blow"
/eaction 3 "Light Strike"
/eaction 4 Trunksplitter
/eaction 5 "Second Wind"

The only one up there I'm not sure of is Light Strike because I'm not completely sure whether you can move your default attack skill around the action bar, but if you can.. that's how


There is no need to add light strike to the macro. Whenever you switch weapons, the default ability is always automatically placed in slot 1.

So, yeah you can make a pretty complete macro for each job change, skills and all. If you want a true complete macro (including gear swaps) you will need to use 2 different macros since they have a 10 line limit.


Yeah but he wanted it in slot 3 (I don't know why... doesn't really matter either) and I wasn't sure if it was possible to even do that. I mean you could go on to ask why he wants slot 1 left blank. I think he was looking for an example of a macro that included skills from multiple classes
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#18 Aug 21 2010 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
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Right out of the gate I dont see this affecting me, a few weeks down the road, yes it will.
I plan on switching between Conjurer, Miner, and Goldsmith at release to get a basis for each class lvled up a bit. However, maybe a month into it i may want to spend an entire day lvling Goldsmithing, and with the presumable high cost of the class, reduced exp is not something i want to have to deal with.

While the severity of this may just be for beta as they might not be getting enough feedback from each class, and want to trick people into trying different rolls, and then implementing it in a less taxing way, i wouldnt be too against it, but i still wont like it.

Only time will tell, and if this many people are opposed, one can only assume that SE would listen to the community just a tiny bit... right?
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#19 Aug 21 2010 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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It won't let you. It auto puts that into slot one, though i'm not sure if you can change it around manually or not. i'll have to check it out.
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#20 Aug 21 2010 at 9:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Am I correct in assuming that surplus exp just kicks in and halts leveling when you reach around rank 15-17? What if SE just implemented surplus exp for this beta phase so more people would try doing other things like crafting, or gathering... instead of just leveling DoW/DoM class?
#21 Aug 21 2010 at 9:25 PM Rating: Good
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There' should be an "I don't know if it affects me but it's a bad idea anyway" option because that's how i would vote. I haven't come across it yet and I don't know all of the detail about it but any time when you artificially limit your players' gameplay it's a bad idea.
#22 Aug 21 2010 at 9:48 PM Rating: Good
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I still don't know what surplus XP is and I'll wait to find out on September 22. [X]

Seriously though from what I've heard, you shouldn't limit hardcore players; you should give causal players things like rested EXP and bonuses to compensate somewhat for the lack of time they have to play.

#23 Aug 21 2010 at 10:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Teneleven wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

Could you give me an example? Like if I want to set Concussive Blow to 2, Light Strike to 3, Trunksplitter to 4, and Second Wind to 5, how would I do all that in one macro?


/equip main "Weathered Hora"
/eaction 2 "Concussive Blow"
/eaction 3 "Light Strike"
/eaction 4 Trunksplitter
/eaction 5 "Second Wind"

The only one up there I'm not sure of is Light Strike because I'm not completely sure whether you can move your default attack skill around the action bar, but if you can.. that's how


There is no need to add light strike to the macro. Whenever you switch weapons, the default ability is always automatically placed in slot 1.

So, yeah you can make a pretty complete macro for each job change, skills and all. If you want a true complete macro (including gear swaps) you will need to use 2 different macros since they have a 10 line limit.


Yeah but he wanted it in slot 3 (I don't know why... doesn't really matter either) and I wasn't sure if it was possible to even do that. I mean you could go on to ask why he wants slot 1 left blank. I think he was looking for an example of a macro that included skills from multiple classes


Because Heavy Strike is the PUG default action ability :) I know, every other class is "Light Something", for PUG it's Heavy Strike, and Light Strike is the 0 point ability you get later. It's weird.
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#24 Aug 21 2010 at 11:07 PM Rating: Default
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imagine playing wow.
u cre8 18 char. each of it different class.
u login to play 1 class. while the other 17 slowly gain rested exp.
now the 1st class that u play have used up all his rested exp. it will start to get lower exp compared to the other 17 class which still have rested exp.
BASICALLY , ITS THE SAME THING!
if u wan reward instead of punihsment.
SE can just scale down the exp of all monster. and start rewarding class versatility.
so instead of geting surplus exp for ur main. u will start getting rested exp for ur other class.

ITS THE SAME!


#25 Aug 22 2010 at 12:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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The tribe has spoken.

Surplus - your fire is extinguished.
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#26 Aug 22 2010 at 2:03 PM Rating: Good
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Papanurf wrote:
The tribe has spoken.

Surplus - your fire is extinguished.



...until it comes back as part of the outcasts tribe :)
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#27 Aug 22 2010 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
The only time in the beta that I've been hit by surplus at all is when I specifically tried to get surplus by solo grinding a single class non stop. As some one who jumps from class to class a lot, it has virtually no effect on me.

However, I see no reason why a mechanism should exist to punish people who are single minded. The game already favors those who have a broad base of skills, and if people want to "gimp" themselves this way, that's their choice. At the same time I don't want to see people get a single class to the cap and then complain that there's nothing to do, content is too hard, etc. Leveling multiple classes is an intended feature of the game.

Maybe what they ought to do instead is to create a pool of "bonus" XP that only triggers when you aren't on your highest level class. That would create an incentive to play multiple classes without making people feel punished for concentrating on just one.

Edited, Aug 22nd 2010 4:11pm by KarlHungis
#28 Aug 22 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I am very confident that the system is not working as intended. I do agree that it should be a reward, not a penalty.

For reference, I have never gotten surplus XP. I have played about 3 hours per day average for the last week or so, and I have the following:

Physical Level 16
Lancer 11
Miner 8
Botanist 8
Pugilist 3
Conjurer 3
Thaumaturge 2
Weaver 4
Blacksmith 2
Armorer 2
Fishing 2

Maybe I've swapped often enough to never hit it, I don't know.
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#29 Aug 22 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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KarlHungis Delivers on Time wrote:
Maybe what they ought to do instead is to create a pool of "bonus" XP that only triggers when you aren't on your highest level class. That would create an incentive to play multiple classes without making people feel punished for concentrating on just one.


That sounds like a spiffy idea.
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#30 Aug 22 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
Edalya wrote:
I am very confident that the system is not working as intended. I do agree that it should be a reward, not a penalty.

For reference, I have never gotten surplus XP. I have played about 3 hours per day average for the last week or so, and I have the following:

Physical Level 16
Lancer 11
Miner 8
Botanist 8
Pugilist 3
Conjurer 3
Thaumaturge 2
Weaver 4
Blacksmith 2
Armorer 2
Fishing 2

Maybe I've swapped often enough to never hit it, I don't know.


Surplus isn't designed to punish people for playing a lot, it's designed to punish people who play the same thing all the time. With your play style you'll pretty much never experience surplus (I am the same way, btw). It's more of a concern for people who desire to get one class to the cap as quickly as possible without leveling any thing else.
#31 Aug 22 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Ah, okay. I've seen so many garbled threads about it, and people seemingly getting it randomly, that I assumed it was both single class and large playtime. Has anyone tried to do testing to see exactly how long it takes to kick in?
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