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Miner/Botanist Etiquette Follow

#1 Aug 23 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I was a miner in FFXI and there were certain rules that were understood. The most important rule being "never ever mine on someone else's mining point". Someone mining on my mining point is probably the one thing in game that really angered me.

Now is this the case in XIV? I guess this would only be an issue if the yield of a mining point is effected by multiple players mining from it. Does anyone have enough experience with mining/botany to answer this question?

P.S. where are all of the mining points? i was mining for about an hour today and only came across 3 points.

*Edit: pressed enter too soon on the subject line

Edited, Aug 23rd 2010 2:44pm by Raionn
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#2 Aug 23 2010 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
Mining points can be used by multiple players at a time in FFXIV with no real penalty to any one who has already started mining, so etiquette so far is every one mines, logs, etc wherever they want.

I'm not sure about the ground spawns though, so some etiquette may emerge eventually for those.

The best way to find a mineral node or a tree is to use the location ability that's specific to your class.
#3 Aug 23 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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The mining points are all over and you can see them sparkling from a distance.
You also get an ability that refreshes every 10 sec that tells you - "Mining/Botanist location some odd distance away to the NW"

Yes people mine ontop of each other but its honestly not that big of deal. Also depends how close to the City/Aerth crystal you stay. If you wander off far from heavily populated areas you will have more private time with you harvesting location. I have been on a mining spot with 3 other people and I was still able to mine for about 4-5 times at that one spot.
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#4 Aug 23 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've seen like 3 people chopping at a tree, so I'm guessing it's not like XI. Also, I've gone up to a tree someone is already chopping and I still get 6 chances to harvest, so I don't think one person chopping affects another, but I am not sure.
#5 Aug 23 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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I wondered about that too. Most people would run up to the tree I was hacking away at, pause for a moment, and then move on. Only once did someone start harvesting the same node. I figured they were from WOW and since I didn't know how it effected things I didn't say anything.

Later on I ran up to a tree that someone else was harvesting and decided to wait until they were finished with it. The glow vanished when they were done so I guess that means that there is a limit to the number of items that can be harvested and proper etiquette would be to not harvest from a node where someone is already engaged.
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#6 Aug 23 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
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TacoTaru wrote:
I wondered about that too. Most people would run up to the tree I was hacking away at, pause for a moment, and then move on. Only once did someone start harvesting the same node. I figured they were from WOW and since I didn't know how it effected things I didn't say anything.

Later on I ran up to a tree that someone else was harvesting and decided to wait until they were finished with it. The glow vanished when they were done so I guess that means that there is a limit to the number of items that can be harvested and proper etiquette would be to not harvest from a node where someone is already engaged.

hm, this is interesting. I have also noticed this, and it leads me to believe the yield of a node begins to deplete as soon as someone begins to mine/harvest from it. But on the flip side people are still getting a decent number of swings in before it disappears when mining at a node with someone else.

I think there needs to be more research possibly before any conclusions are made. Because I dont think a node will always disappear when you're done with it. One of the three mining points I found remained after I was finished mining from it. When I tried to mine from the point again a message saying "you sense there in nothing of interest" (or something like that) appeared. Now I dont know if that message only appeared for me and someone who hadn't mined at that node was able to or not. I am just not sure.

I have not had experience mining from a node while someone else was also mining from that same node. So, someone with experience with this scenario, did the original person mining/harvesting from the node quit before you quit or did you both stop at the same time?
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#7 Aug 23 2010 at 2:17 PM Rating: Good
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I've gone up to a tree and seen someone harvest it, then watched it until they finished and the glow vanished, leading me to believe that people are "sharing" the point.

So yeah, the etiquette of it has annoyed me as well.
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#8 Aug 23 2010 at 2:17 PM Rating: Good
TacoTaru wrote:
I wondered about that too. Most people would run up to the tree I was hacking away at, pause for a moment, and then move on. Only once did someone start harvesting the same node. I figured they were from WOW and since I didn't know how it effected things I didn't say anything.

Later on I ran up to a tree that someone else was harvesting and decided to wait until they were finished with it. The glow vanished when they were done so I guess that means that there is a limit to the number of items that can be harvested and proper etiquette would be to not harvest from a node where someone is already engaged.


From my experience, whenever someone starts harvesting something they get X number of harvests from it regardless of how many people are around, and once the last person stops harvesting from it the point will vanish.
#9 Aug 23 2010 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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Lamnethx of the Seven Seas wrote:
TacoTaru wrote:
I wondered about that too. Most people would run up to the tree I was hacking away at, pause for a moment, and then move on. Only once did someone start harvesting the same node. I figured they were from WOW and since I didn't know how it effected things I didn't say anything.

Later on I ran up to a tree that someone else was harvesting and decided to wait until they were finished with it. The glow vanished when they were done so I guess that means that there is a limit to the number of items that can be harvested and proper etiquette would be to not harvest from a node where someone is already engaged.


From my experience, whenever someone starts harvesting something they get X number of harvests from it regardless of how many people are around, and once the last person stops harvesting from it the point will vanish.


Interesting. I hadn't considered that possibility. This shall require more testing.
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#10 Aug 23 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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I don't think it's an issue. When doing a leve, they only give you a specific area with mining/logging points. Sometimes, there's only one point in that area to log at, so with the time limit, it's necessary to log/mine there whether someone else is there or not.
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#11 Aug 23 2010 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
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I have had a point become depleted before my allotted number of tries was up, so there is definitely a limit to how many items can come from one location. However, no one has gotten upset over sharing points yet either, as there are plenty of items coming from each point, and the number of points overall is pretty high. Since you get the ability that tells you what direction the next node is, I have been in a cluster with one or two other people going from point to point multiple times, and no one had any problems with it.

However, quarry and harvest points behave differently. You get a certain number of tries per spot like the main points, however once an item is found, the point jumps a few yards away. It does still count as the same point. In my experience, people wait for a person to be done with harvest/quarry points before moving in because of this system.
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#12 Aug 23 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I was a long time miner in XI, Oldton Movolpolis and some goldsmithing skill was bank, before the gold ingot market fell out. But as many know, in XI, a mining point had so many swings in it, be they 'get nothings' or items (broken pickaxes didnt count).

That and as soon as you hit one attempt away from a point, it moved to another possible location. So it was actually kind of rewarding to move to your own point in XI as it may have more items to take than the point the other person was hitting.

If its a case of '5 swings for each person' rather than 5 swings total, i can see this being less frustrating, but also making mining less profitable. As is with oldton, the music drove most of the competition away.
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#13xthunderblazex, Posted: Aug 23 2010 at 3:01 PM, Rating: Unrated, (Expand Post) Every man for themselves.
#14 Aug 23 2010 at 3:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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xthunderblazex wrote:
Every man for themselves.

There is no carebear system. You see it, you go for it, **** everyone else in the way.


You obviously didnt play FFxi lol, Although there were people who didnt follow it, there were unwriten rules about mining points and the like. If you wanted to get anywhere in the game you couldnt just go pi$$ people off at random. Never knew who would be your healer or tank in partys.

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#15 Aug 23 2010 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
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From my experience, whenever someone starts harvesting something they get X number of harvests from it regardless of how many people are around, and once the last person stops harvesting from it the point will vanish.


This ^^
#16xthunderblazex, Posted: Aug 23 2010 at 3:11 PM, Rating: Unrated, (Expand Post) I played FFXI, I ****** everyone off at random, it got me lots of places.
#17 Aug 23 2010 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
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From what I've seen there's a certain amount of items in a node but each person only has 3-6 chances, depending on your rank and the node grade, to get those items. Once all of the items in the node are gone the node collapses. Multiple people can gather at the same time and since it takes a while for the node to collapse I would wager there's a good amount of items in each node. Etiquette, over time, I would gather will simply be come one, come all, except for the gathering points that use your secondary tool. I would imagine that would be first come first serve and back off if you didn't get there first.
#18 Aug 23 2010 at 3:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have been playing as a harvester to supplement my alchemy and this is what I have noticed. There are 2 types of harvesting points that you encounter. One is a glowing spot that you use your primary tool the hatchet to harvest. These are trees and can be shared by anyone. I have been sent on guildleve to the same tree as a friend doing the same quest, so I believe they are intended to be harvested by multiple people.

When you reach these points you get a message on how many times you can harvest that point and after you have reached your max attempts at that tree, you can no longer harvest there. I tend to believe that the spots just randomly vanish and move to different locations after a set amount of time. I always seem to get 5 attempts no matter how many people are harvesting the same tree as well.

The second type of harvesting point is the glowing spot on the ground. This spot needs your secondary tool the scythe to harvest. This spot is tricky because you get 5 attempts as well to harvest, but every time you succeed at harvesting this point it vanishes and another point reappears somewhere near you to continue till your attempts have reached 0. If you fail a harvest attempt the point does not move till you succeed or run out of attempts for that location.

This type of spot can be shared, but since only 1 appears at a time and moves after a successful harvest, it can be a little annoying sharing it as the person successful at the attempt moves it to another nearby spot. I don't believe it ever runs out until all people have finished their attempts as I have shared a point and still received around 5 attempts.

That is my personal experience with harvesting. I could be wrong, but since they made harvesting an official job, I think they wanted to make sure everyone could do it without super fierce competition on each point as there are not tons of glowing harvest points sitting about.
#19 Aug 23 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
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First I'd also had the same feeling that if someone is working on a mine or a tree, I should leave him alone, but after a bit of observation, I found that's not completely true, here's my thought:

1. There is a maximum number of use for each mining point, when it reaches to the limit, the point would disappear.

2. You can only mine a certain number of times per point, as your rank goes up, this number goes up.

3. When you mine at a mining point for X times and even if the point is still there, you can not mine from that point anymore. It'll say something like "you can't mine at this location anymore".

So let's say a mining point can be mined for 10 times, and say at your current rank, you can only mine 4 times, so by the time you're done, the mine would still be there and if no one access it, it seems it'll stay there forever (I'd never seen a mining point disappear without anyone using it) and you can't mine on it anymore. So if there's another person sharing the point with you, and it happens that he can mine 7 times, so if you started mining before him, you'll most likely finish mining it 4 times and after he mined for his 6th, the mine will disappear.

I'm assuming these because these had happened to me:

- I saw a mining point for distance and someone was working on it, so I was just standing next to him and watching him. By the time he's done (put his pickaxe away), the point is still flashing, so I started mining and when I'm done with it, the point was still there.

- I started mining at a mining point, then someone joined me. By the time I'm done, the point disappeared, then both of us put away our pickaxe.

- I finished mining at a mining point, it's still there, so I went to another mining point, finished mining there, then came back to the first one and tried to mine it again, but it wouldn't let me.

BTW, I'm wondering at what level we can get the ability to show the mining points on the map? My miner was rank 8 and I still didn't have that ability. Tho I remembered when I got to rank 4 or something, it said I learned Prospect, but I couldn't find it on my ability list anywhere...
#20 Aug 23 2010 at 5:27 PM Rating: Good
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First time back at Zam in almost 2 years.

Lamnethx you're mostly right but a little off. Harvest points have a certain (high) number of strikes available. The point disappears once it's hit that mark. I'm guessing the number to be ~30 from observation. You get a certain number of strikes based on your level vs the grade of the point (at level 13 I'd get 6 strikes on a level 1 node, 4 strikes on a level 2 node, and 2 strikes on a level 3). Even if you are allowed 6 attempts, if the node only had 2 remaining, it collapses after your 2nd attempt. If another person is there and they swing the same time as you, you'll only get 1.

Lay of the Land (or insert appropriate skill for class, because I assume they work the exact same) will even tell you "A nearly exhausted grade 2 node is 85 yalms South" if that node is low on remaining attempts. However, "nearly exhausted" could mean anywhere from 2-10? I've approached them solo and got as few as 2, and as many as my full 6. Not sure what the cap is.

The point is, it's not like FFXI was. Gathering won't need the same code of conduct that we had in FFXI (thank god! %$#@$! RMT...) as you can't exhaust a point solo from start to finish, unless of course you continue to get more attempts the higher you get. Maybe at lvl 50 Mining you can do 40 attempts on a level 1, but I doubt it.
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#21 Aug 23 2010 at 6:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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I did quite abit of logging and wish to share some of my observation.
i will split my observation into 2 grp, Grade 1 and Grade 2 points

Grade 1
  • Usually i could log 6 time before i'm unable to log on the point anymore
  • Point seldom disappear as tho they have a high amount of durability or something
  • No problem with 2~3 players logging at the same time

  • Grade 2
  • Usually i could log 3 times before i'm unable to log on the point anymore
  • Point seem to always disappear after i finish my tries
  • When i was logging half-way, a player came by and log on my spot (sucess/fail). One of my try disappears
  • While logging half-way, my action got cancel when the last try was done by someone else (regardless of sucess or failure

  • Edited, Aug 24th 2010 1:06am by Sleepymagi
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    #22 Aug 23 2010 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
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    At first I thought it was like xi but after further review having 3 ppl on the same tree/mountainside it kinda made things seem more real. Funny to see and hear other ppls axes/picks striking the surface. I absolutely adore some of the immersion in this game and now that my vanishing skills issue was explained to me I really am having a blast now.

    I play with a controller and some menus dont work properly if you dont use a mouse. So doing local leves and setting skills from the drop down menu you have to use the mouse to see the actual skills. When using the controller it would only show pug moves. Anyway I think we as a community will be able to use most of our old etiquette but slightly tweak others to better comply with the new "rules" of Eorzea.
    #23 Aug 23 2010 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
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    hmmm...now that is interesting. Anyone know if its possible to have a party of miners/botanist and have a positive effect on gathering? like...team gathering or something?
    #24 Aug 24 2010 at 12:21 AM Rating: Good
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    Hi all,

    I've been trying to draw up some conclusion to that as well ( in the discussion forum for Miner ), but it's a little confusing as there *seems* to be limits to both "attempts by Miner - which could be affected by rank", and "number of possible extractions available on the node".

    I think we'll need this clarified/confirmed to avoid arguments when someone comes up to a point and start mining next to you.
    A : "Go away! This is mine!"
    B : "You're saying it wrong! It should be - a mine node/point"
    A : "No! This mine node is MINE!"
    B : "No, they can be shared, it doesn't affect your results!"
    A : "LIES!"
    #25 Aug 24 2010 at 5:00 AM Rating: Good
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    I've personally witnessed that multiple people harvesting/mining a node can lead to trouble. At least a dozen times over a few days, A few of us were all booted from the same resource node. Even though I had anywhere from 4-6 trys left on the resource. We all stopped our animations at the same time and put our tools away. One time I stopped mining a node by accident which caused the node to collapse. The other two players looked upset and expressed this feeling with emotes.
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