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#1 Aug 24 2010 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I was going to reserve the collectors addition today but then i got to thinking about the item bonuses. The onion helm looks "OK" in that it quickens recovery from death, but the glasses make your skills develop faster. How did those end up in the standard edition? I dont know about you all but i dont plan on to die all that much so the onion helm has situational use where as the glasses seem super awesome on any character at any time.

Im going to hold off a bit longer and think on it some more I guess. I know the item isnt the only thing that the CE has with it, but aside from the 8 days early I dont care for any of it.

I'm sure I'm just thinking about this and others have thought of it before so what are your thoughts?
#2 Aug 24 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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I dont know about you all but i dont plan on to die all that much


Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. You'd be very surprised.

But yeah, the time to recover after death is like 3 minutes or something so it's kind of pointless.

I'd still rather have the CE though.
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#3 Aug 24 2010 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
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The goggles come with the SE because they are starting 8 days later. It's for them to catch up.

I'm getting the CE for the earlier access and the extras like the security token and journal. The Onion Helm is just a small extra compared to those for me. We don't know how effective these items will be anyways. They could have only 10 uses and that's it who knows!
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#4 Aug 24 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, the glasses look cooler for sure, but as far as usefulness I'd say the Onion Helm is better. Sure, the weakened timer isn't that long to begin with, but it's still three minutes where you're basically doing nothing (unless SE purposely made weakened time shorter for beta). But you could say the same thing about skill levels, it's not all that hard to gain them either. The thing with the skill glasses is they stop being useful once you're skill capped. In other words they become less useful over time. However, you never stop dying, and in all honesty you die more the farther into endgame you go (and in those cases dying is more detrimental as well, you want to be able to recover and get in the fight ASAP). So the onion helm actually becomes more useful over time. That's how I see it anyway. And doesn't the collector's edition get some other in-game item that hasn't been mentioned yet? Or am I just remembering things wrong?
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#5 Aug 24 2010 at 4:38 PM Rating: Default
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I've already pre-ordered a CE copy for myself and my girlfriend so I'm stuck w/ the helm, but if I could choose I'd choose the goggles. My girlfriend would also choose the goggles.
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#6 Aug 24 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Just because there is no XP penalty for death in the beta does not mean there will be no XP penalty in the RTM.

Remember that.
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#7 Aug 24 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Default
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The penalty is just being weakened for a few minutes. Glasses do not last forever, you'd get way more xp from playing 8 days earlier.
#8 Aug 24 2010 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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-However, you never stop dying, and in all honesty you die more the farther into endgame you go (and in those cases dying is more detrimental as well, you want to be able to recover and get in the fight ASAP). So the onion helm actually becomes more useful over time.-

If they work on all classes (and dont poof after a while...) then every time you switch classes you can learn all of their skills that much faster. And apparently you will be switching alot to avoid fatigue. 2 years down the line when a new awesome class comes out you will have the jump on those amazing abilities as well. Unless they poof after a while I dont see them ever losing their usefulness...

-The penalty is just being weakened for a few minutes. Glasses do not last forever, you'd get way more xp from playing 8 days earlier. -

how do you know they dont last forever? if they have a set number of uses or something well then, thats just weak.
#9 Aug 24 2010 at 5:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Just because there is no XP penalty for death in the beta does not mean there will be no XP penalty in the RTM.


This is just silly. There won't be xp or skill point loss. SE isn't that foolish - that's what the fatigue system is for. If they were going to try it, they'd do it in Beta. If they try it untested in retail, they're going to lose a bunch of people who are already upset with the way fatigue currently works.

Also, in the CE, the security token and month of free play (or whatever playtime incentive they're giving) are worth MORE than the additional $25 you're paying for the CE, so there's no point NOT to get it unless you really don't want a security token.

Quote:
how do you know they dont last forever? if they have a set number of uses or something well then, thats just weak.


They won't last forever because it will give one group of players an advantage over others permanently in the game. That's just bad mechanics and bad business on SE's part. PS3 players won't tolerate that (they'll get left further behind than they already are... though I imagine they'll get something similar to start with), CE players won't tolerate that (why am I paying $25 to start when I could play the game that much faster with SE and just have to wait another week). And it's not weak to have a set number of uses - it evens the playing field for all interested players at the start of the game.

Edited, Aug 24th 2010 7:52pm by dalm
#10 Aug 24 2010 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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From an interview that was originally in french:

Tanaka: Oh! There are indeed two different versions of objects that offer very useful for the beginning of the game, but it is more aesthetic objects than anything else. We did not want to create too large disparities between those who had a particular purpose and those who did not. We have therefore imposed certain limits on their usefulness, making sure you do not make them indispensable. Take the example of Onion Helmet, for those who ordered the collector version. This is a hat which can reduce the penalty on the dead because players tend to die easily at the beginning of the game regarding the glasses, they allow players to more easily catch those who have started one week in advance: it is faster for them to develop their talents.

JeuxOnLine: The glasses have really only made to catch up then.

Saori: Yes, indeed.

http://killingifrit.com/forums/topic/182532-ffxiv-new-interview/

Just went to gamestop earlier today and paid the rest of my CE pre-order, almost walked out with a copy of Fallout3 for my new pc but was able to resist...
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#11 Aug 24 2010 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't think he (she?) meant that the glasses have a set number of uses, just that they have a set PERIOD of usefulness. Meaning they stop being useful when your skills are all capped. Yes, it's true that you could then use those glasses for another class, but logically they still seem less useful to me. To make full "use" of those glasses, you'd have to continue leveling new classes. And along that line, eventually you would come to the point where you had leveled every single class and had all your skills maxed. In other words, in order to get full "use" out of the glasses you'd have to use them until the point where they become truly useless.

Of course not a lot of players would do that; many players level a small handful of classes to max and then focus on just those classes. They never intend on leveling all of them. In that case, the usefulness of the glasses ends when the player decides he wants to stop leveling and stick with the classes he/she has already. However in both cases the Onion Helm would remain useful. The first player would not ever have any more skill points to gain, but death (and time spent weakened) is a constant factor. (Yeah, there's always the case of a level cap increase and whatnot, but in the end there is always a "cap" on skill level. There is never a cap on death.) The second player would have more skill points he could gain, but chooses not to... Which puts him in the same situation as the first player.

Both items are incredibly useful, for sure. I just think the situation in which the glasses become ultimately useless is more forseeable than the situation in which the helm becomes ultimately useless. However, I suppose if there's a strong argument to be made against the helm it's that in order to maintain its usefulness you'd have to be able to forsee your death accurately enough to equip it at an appropriate time. Equip it too late and it's worthless. Equip it too early and you are gimping yourself by using a sub-par piece of equipment "just in case" you die. I can see it both ways, but I still prefer the helm for use, and the glasses for looks. :)
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#12 Aug 24 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm still torn. It seems the glasses being "made to catch up" doesnt mean you can't use them forever. In fact, it seems like they will be immensely useful to my play style. In FFXI (before i quit) I had nearly every job to 35 so that I would have every sub i could want (except PUP COR and Dancer i think it was). I liked leveling at lower levels because you could solo until 15ish (subbing BST) and didnt have to bother looking for party. Also, it made whatever your main job was that much more versatile.
Even before the surplus thing i expected to level most, if not all of the jobs... In the end I want the 8 days and the glasses. Think they'll let me swap out gift codes? lol. Time to start flirting with some gamestop girls...

->Edit - that wont work either because i wont be able to use the code for the glasses until the 30th which means the character i start on the 22nd wont have them... :(

Edited, Aug 24th 2010 8:31pm by shadowofclarence
#13 Aug 24 2010 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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dalm wrote:
Quote:
Just because there is no XP penalty for death in the beta does not mean there will be no XP penalty in the RTM.


This is just silly. There won't be xp or skill point loss. SE isn't that foolish - that's what the fatigue system is for. If they were going to try it, they'd do it in Beta. If they try it untested in retail, they're going to lose a bunch of people who are already upset with the way fatigue currently works.



There's not a whole lot to test in an EXP hit when you die. Did it remove EXP from the character when it was killed? Yup, looks like its working.

SE said they were trying to avoid putting a death penalty in and the fatigue system has used up a good chunk of their "lame sh*t" quota but I wouldn't put it past them so quickly.

On Topic:

I ordered the CE cause I wanted the 8 days early access, needed a new token after my old one crapped out and I'm a sucker for the collector's items.

Edit: Added on topic info

Edited, Aug 24th 2010 7:48pm by Cherbr
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#14 Aug 24 2010 at 6:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I think its more a matter of will power. The game will be fresh and new to everyone... how much will power do you have in waiting until the 30th when the SE is released compared to the 22nd when the CE comes out.

I originally planned on waiting until the 30th and SE edition.... I'm suprised i held out for as long as i did... but in the end paid for the CE edition. Heres hoping they have a midnight release on the 21st..... which just happens to be my normal days off... tuesday and wednesday.

I'd imagine that on both release days its gonna be pure chaos and fun with everyone logging into the real game for the 1st time. See everyone on the 22nd... barring any emergency maintenance due to server over loads.
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#15 Aug 24 2010 at 7:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm so disappointed, I ran into some financial crap and had to downgrade to SE(since I was using Amazon which doesn't charge you until the release). Sucks I don't get to play on the 22nd but I got into the beta last Friday so that makes up for it!
#16 Aug 24 2010 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Might I remind folks that yes the weakened timer is only 3 min and yes the goggles will help you skill faster, BUT! Guildleves are TIMED. I dont know about some of the other folks in the beta but I for one have found myself close to running out of time due to deaths at the Camp Bloodshore leves... (~20) Doing them solo at 2 star (yes i like it risky and i like the challenge) But if it cuts the weakness timer down from 3 min to 1 thats big help.

Also say your doing a faction or even a normal "end-game" leve (for lack of a better term) and your the tank or healer or some key person that needs to get back in there on the mobs before they regain all their freakin HP. That 2 min may save the leve for the entire group. Just a thought...

Timed battles 30min... When someone dies (until they release a raise spell) there is no return to crystal until its full wipe. Then you gonna wish you had two Gladiators with onion helms to quickly get back in there and hold the mob until the rest of the group is unweakened and back in battle with as little HP regen as possible

my two copper circles...
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#17 Aug 24 2010 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, I'll be playing the PS3 version, but assuming there will be a Collector's Edition for that, I'll be getting it. I don't care about the in-game items. I just want that journal and certificate.
#18 Aug 25 2010 at 12:55 AM Rating: Decent
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I think the CE is totally worth it for the extra stuff. It looks really nice. If you end up not liking the game at least you have some cool souvenirs :) I don't know why but I like to collect maps from games.
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#19 Aug 25 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Good
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CE, cause I want to play earlier.
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#20 Aug 25 2010 at 8:02 PM Rating: Decent
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The goggles might not have the effect as a passive one, but rather as charges maybe (like some items in FFXI)? So once all the charges are used then the item would be useless, but could be kept as a trophy. This is of course assuming that the effect is intended to not last forever.
#21 Aug 25 2010 at 9:01 PM Rating: Excellent
I got the CE because my friends all did and we want to start together from the very beginning...and I kinda dig the way the helmet looks :P
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