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PS3 textures 1/4'th resolution of PC versionFollow

#1 Aug 24 2010 at 7:34 PM Rating: Decent
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From here:

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/06/18/final-fantasy-xiv-ps3-hugely-degraded-you-wont-notice/

They are making reference to this interview.

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20100618_375309.html


That's a pretty big step down in quality.


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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#2 Aug 24 2010 at 7:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't trust anything from sankaku after the fatique thing.

But then again I don't really disbelieve it either as they seriously need to do something for it to run on PS3 properly.
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#3 Aug 24 2010 at 7:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Sorry I don't have a link but SE previously stated that one of the big reasons the PS3 version was delayed was issues with getting the game to run adequately on the system since it's specs aren't up to par with PC.
#4 Aug 24 2010 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
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BRizzl3 wrote:
Sorry I don't have a link but SE previously stated that one of the big reasons the PS3 version was delayed was issues with getting the game to run adequately on the system since it's specs aren't up to par with PC.


Yeah i had read that too somewhere. the main problem is that there's insufficient memory on the PS3
#5 Aug 24 2010 at 7:42 PM Rating: Default
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The main problem is consoles are indefinitely INFERIOR!!! But I still play me some PS3 lol.

Edited, Aug 24th 2010 9:43pm by BRizzl3
#6 Aug 24 2010 at 7:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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BRizzl3 wrote:
Sorry I don't have a link but SE previously stated that one of the big reasons the PS3 version was delayed was issues with getting the game to run adequately on the system since it's specs aren't up to par with PC.



There seems to have been a rehashing of this story bouncing around the net today.


Link

1UP wrote:

The recent news of a delay for the PlayStation 3 version of Final Fantasy XIV may have disappointed eager fans. Producer Hiromichi Tanaka has stepped forward with word on why the delay is happening, and how Square Enix is aiming to fix the problem.

In an interview with VG247, Tanaka said the delay was due to PS3 RAM restrictions. "The main reason was the memory," he said through his translator. "On the PC, they have enormous memory. For PS3, there's a restriction. They are adjusting the memory size and customizing it; it took longer than we were expecting. But we're really working hard to bring it out as soon as possible."

The explanation probably doesn't soften the blow for PS3 owners who have to wait an extra several months, but at least we know the cause. Besides, it could be worse -- the 360 version is delayed indefinitely due to Microsoft's Live policy.
#7 Aug 24 2010 at 7:44 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe I'm over simplifying things, but the "not enough memory" thing.... Is that across the board on the PS3 or is it just that SE has to make it playable on all PS3s and the 40 gig is a problem where the 80 gig and better is a breeze? Or is it some other sort of "memory" altogether?

Sorry if I sound like a moron, I'm just trying to get a grasp of what's going on with this situation.
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#8 Aug 24 2010 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Maybe I'm over simplifying things, but the "not enough memory" thing.... Is that across the board on the PS3 or is it just that SE has to make it playable on all PS3s and the 40 gig is a problem where the 80 gig and better is a breeze? Or is it some other sort of "memory" altogether?

Sorry if I sound like a moron, I'm just trying to get a grasp of what's going on with this situation.


It's RAM not HDD memory.
#9 Aug 24 2010 at 7:49 PM Rating: Good
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BRizzl3 wrote:
Quote:
Maybe I'm over simplifying things, but the "not enough memory" thing.... Is that across the board on the PS3 or is it just that SE has to make it playable on all PS3s and the 40 gig is a problem where the 80 gig and better is a breeze? Or is it some other sort of "memory" altogether?

Sorry if I sound like a moron, I'm just trying to get a grasp of what's going on with this situation.


It's RAM not HDD memory.



From Wikipedia:
Quote:
The PlayStation 3 has 256 MB of XDR DRAM main memory and 256 MB of GDDR3 video memory for the RSX.



So if I recall, that's half the minimum spec for PC? And most folks will run at least 1GB.
#10 Aug 24 2010 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Only problem is you can't directly compare the specs of PS3 to PC due to the distinct differences in their Operating Systems. Windows takes a lot more resources to run than whatever you call what PS3 is running.
#11 Aug 24 2010 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
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BRizzl3 wrote:
Only problem is you can't directly compare the specs of PS3 to PC due to the distinct differences in their Operating Systems. Windows takes a lot more resources to run than whatever you call what PS3 is running.


Well, the PS3 allowed any OS to be run on it until a patch a few months ago. Now it's just the Cross Media Bar, or XMB.
#12 Aug 24 2010 at 8:29 PM Rating: Decent
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I can't imagine it could run Windows efficiently though.
#13 Aug 24 2010 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
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BRizzl3 wrote:
Only problem is you can't directly compare the specs of PS3 to PC due to the distinct differences in their Operating Systems. Windows takes a lot more resources to run than whatever you call what PS3 is running.


Textures are the same size (memory-wise) no matter what OS you are running.



Edited, Aug 24th 2010 11:57pm by Lobivopis
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#14 Aug 24 2010 at 8:58 PM Rating: Decent
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ReiThor wrote:
Maybe I'm over simplifying things, but the "not enough memory" thing.... Is that across the board on the PS3 or is it just that SE has to make it playable on all PS3s and the 40 gig is a problem where the 80 gig and better is a breeze? Or is it some other sort of "memory" altogether?

Sorry if I sound like a moron, I'm just trying to get a grasp of what's going on with this situation.


They are talking about system RAM and video RAM not HD size. They had to reduce the textures to a quarter of the resolution of the PC version in order to get them to fit into the PS3's RAM.
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#15 Aug 24 2010 at 9:02 PM Rating: Good
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I am going to be playing on the PS3, and I'm sure the game will look pretty darn good on it. I know that almost any game on the PC always looks better, but from what I've seen from the graphics on the PS3 I'm sure it can't look that bad. I just rly hope there is no problems with the system freezing up like the 360 did in FFXI during events like campaign and when mobs attacked the city in WG. If there is no freezing problems I'm sure I will b very very happy with this game. Just need to come out faster then March LOL.
#16 Aug 24 2010 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Textures are the same size (memory-wise) no matter what OS you are running.


Yes but because of the WAY Windows operates the actual OS itself takes up more resources thus leaving you with less leftover for other things. For instance my computer uses about 1.7GB of RAM just idling in Vista, this doesn't just disappear when you start up a game.
#17 Aug 24 2010 at 9:25 PM Rating: Good
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1. That 1.7 G is used for things like prefetch. It isn't "lost" to your system and games etc. It becomes available when needed.
2. If you still trust sankakucomplex, you are a moron.
3. The textures are not "1/4 the resolution", but "1/4 the size" of the high quality setting PC textures. That's 1/2 the resolution, since you have to square the factor for texture size.
4. When was the last time you took the leisure to fully zoom in on your still-standing character during a Dynamis run so you could actually notice the hair-thin texture details? For all practical purposes, no, you won't notice.
5. If you still trust sankakucomplex, you are a moron. (again)
#18 Aug 24 2010 at 9:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm sincerely surprised nobody has made a "PS3 limitations" joke yet in this thread to herald in the new age.
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#19 Aug 24 2010 at 9:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:

5. If you still trust sankakucomplex, you are a moron. (again)


I'm pretty sure you can trust the producer of FFXIV though. Remember they are talking about something he said in this interview. It's not like they just made it up off the top of their head.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#20 Aug 24 2010 at 10:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Sankaku Complex just lists a real source and then makes up some wild ******** assumption that is vaguely based off what you read in the source if you replace half the words with made up fallacies.
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#21 Aug 24 2010 at 10:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm pretty sure you can trust the producer of FFXIV though. Remember they are talking about something he said in this interview. It's not like they just made it up off the top of their head.


So what does the article say? That texture data size will be 1/4, and resolution 1/2. And that you'll hardly be able to tell the difference.

...

Wait. Didn't I say right that before?
#22 Aug 25 2010 at 1:13 AM Rating: Good
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The graphics should be on par with what we saw with FF13
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#23 Aug 25 2010 at 6:21 AM Rating: Good
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Wow.. this site is seriously out to get Square enix


http://img3.sankakustatic.com/wp-content/gallery/safe-misc-vi/final-fantasy-xiv-texture-comparison.jpg

They use this screenshot as a reference picture to "compare" the degraded quality of ps3 vs PC. If you take a closer look you can CLEARLY see its not the ingame textures of the character model that has been scaled down (since then the resolution of the model wouldn't be affected) but the WHOLE right side of the picture!

This site is the worst kind of bullsh*t!



Edited, Aug 25th 2010 8:23am by GusMorgan

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 8:26am by GusMorgan
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#24 Aug 25 2010 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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You guys are forgetting something, the PS3 version will most likely be 720p upscaled to 1080. XIII was like this and it was gorgeous...

Now think about something else, the game supports 3 monitors and may support #D at some point. Any way think about what the resoultion of 3 monitors is running at the prefered gamer resoultion of XXXX by 1200 or 1080. Yep it's about 3/4 more resolution to support.

In the end it really doesn't mean anything. If you're used to playing on a console, you will get the current console standard of 720 support upscaled. If you're used to playing on PC you can go up to a very large resolution natively before your hardware or the software has to upscale.
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#25 Aug 25 2010 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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I dont know. I still say spending 250-300 dollars on a PS3 is better than spending 700-1000+ dollars for a computer that can run FFXIV. It's all a personal preference thing, but for slightly less graphics and less of a dent in my wallet, I think I'll personally get a PS3.
#26 Aug 25 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Decent
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PerrinofSylph wrote:


Now think about something else, the game supports 3 monitors


Actually it doesn't "support" 3 monitors, it supports panoramic displays. You could use however many monitors you want up to the maximum number of monitors your graphics cards support. (Eyefinity supports a maximum of 9 monitors, I'm not sure what the max for NV Surround is) To the application it looks like a single very wide monitor. The game engine may have a limit to how wide the aspect ratio can be however. Also some game engines will start to have a "fish eye lens" effect at the edges of the display if you set a resolution with the aspect ratio too wide, or may not be able to use extremely high resolutions (e.g. 9600x1200)



Edited, Aug 25th 2010 9:35pm by Lobivopis
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#27 Aug 25 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Good
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Kaelia88 wrote:
I'm sincerely surprised nobody has made a "PS3 limitations" joke yet in this thread to herald in the new age.


Sadly, this will become an issue at some point, just like the PS2 has with FFXI. I was honestly hoping FFXIV would be PC only so this type of thing could be avoided years from now, but SE would have been alienating a lot of players due to many people being unable to meet the steep hardware requirements for the PC version.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 8:38pm by Oblivia
#28 Aug 25 2010 at 6:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The graphics should be on par with what we saw with FF13


Not exactly. With FFXIII there wasn't all of the stuff going on to connect you to a constantly updating online world draining the crap out of resources.
#29 Aug 26 2010 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Lobivopis wrote:
Actually it doesn't "support" 3 monitors, it supports panoramic displays. You could use however many monitors you want up to the maximum number of monitors your graphics cards support. (Eyefinity supports a maximum of 9 monitors, I'm not sure what the max for NV Surround is) To the application it looks like a single very wide monitor. The game engine may have a limit to how wide the aspect ratio can be however. Also some game engines will start to have a "fish eye lens" effect at the edges of the display if you set a resolution with the aspect ratio too wide, or may not be able to use extremely high resolutions (e.g. 9600x1200)


I was trying to keep things simple, but officially it natively supports 3D Surround which is 3 monitors, so the graphics in the game are (now here I'm guessing) designed to look good without having to be stretched at the average 3 monitor resolution. Anything above that textures will most likely be stretched (assumtion), but still it remains that they will have higher texture quality on the PC than the PS3, but ultimately they should look similar during play... maybe not so much in screenshots but I don't think it will be as bad as the pics in those links.
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#30 Aug 26 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tanaka announced this back at E3, before they even decided to delay the PS3 client. So it's not exactly news. And as pointed out above, the PS3 version runs at 720p vs. 1080p for the PC version, so the higher textures would be largely wasted anyhow. The only people who will greatly benefit from the higher textures of the PC version are those capable of running the game at near max settings and resolutions. And the downgrade won't have any impact on the PC client, so let's chill with the "PS3 limitations" banter. You see these kind of modifications with countless PC and console multiplat games. This is more common sense than any revelation.
#31 Aug 26 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok people lets get a few things straight here.
For those that are confused and saying the PS3 does not need as much RAM as the PC because of the OS you are correct but in regards to image quality of the game it has no bearing.

Facts:
A video card processes textures to display the image you see on screen.
A video card has its own RAM seperate from the main RAM used for the OS.
The amount of RAM on your video card determines the size and quality of textures that can be loaded at any given time for the GPU to process.

How this relates to PS3?
FFXIV requires PC to have video card of 512 MB.
A PS3 only has 256 MB of RAM for textures(this is half of the requirement for FFXIV on PC).
A blue ray drive can only read data at a certain rate which is leagues and leagues slower than the rate a GPU will request and process the data.
Loading textures that were designed for 512MB of RAM into only 256MB is not easy to do.

Its very likely if not a certain possiblity that textures will most definately be 1/2 or less the quality of the PC version.

But this shouldnt be misinterpreted to mean the PS3 version will not look good because its the same engine as FFXIII and that is beautiful on a PS3(I own the game on Xbox 360 and still think it looks great on that too).

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:10pm by tennisfreak

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:12pm by tennisfreak
#32 Aug 26 2010 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
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tennisfreak wrote:
Ok people lets get a few things straight here.
For those that are confused and saying the PS3 does not need as much RAM as the PC because of the OS you are correct but in regards to image quality of the game it has no bearing.

Facts:
A video card processes textures to display the image you see on screen.
A video card has its own RAM seperate from the main RAM used for the OS.
The amount of RAM on your video card determines the size and quality of textures that can be loaded at any given time for the GPU to process.

How this relates to PS3?
FFXIV requires PC to have video card of 512 MB.
A PS3 only has 256 MB of RAM for textures(this is half of the requirement for FFXIV on PC).
A blue ray drive can only read data at a certain rate which is leagues and leagues slower than the rate a GPU will request and process the data.
Loading textures that were designed for 512MB of RAM into only 256MB is not easy to do.

Its very likely if not a certain possiblity that textures will most definately be 1/2 or less the quality of the PC version.

But this shouldnt be misinterpreted to mean the PS3 version will not look good because its the same engine as FFXIII and that is beautiful on a PS3(I own the game on Xbox 360 and still think it looks great on that too).


Of course, the speed of the RAM plays a factor, as does the fact that some or all of the game will be loaded onto the HDD to decrease access time. PS3's Video card can also access the system memory if needed - it isn't limited to the 256mb of GDDR3, though as I understand it this can lead to bottlenecks. The Cell processor can also take up duties normally relegated solely to Graphics cards, so comparing video card to card becomes pointless.

In short, nothing you say is wrong, but it also isn't nearly so cut and dried. The PS3 just doesn't do things the way your run of the mill PC does, so it's really hard to compare bland hardware numbers.
#33 Aug 26 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
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tennisfreak wrote:
A blue ray drive can only read data at a certain rate which is leagues and leagues slower than the rate a GPU will request and process the data.
Loading textures that were designed for 512MB of RAM into only 256MB is not easy to do.


You really think they're going to send you a new BluRay everytime there's a client update? Are you going to have to switch discs when you jump between add-on content in the future?

The game will run off the HDD in the PS3, just like it will on the PC. As to your RAM theory PS3 vs PC, PS3, 360, Wii... all of them have one single advantage over PC. They have a guarantee'd hardware config that developers can code specifically to. You don't need as many rescources to generate the same product. Obviously for high end PC users this is almost always a plus except for a lot of games that are multi-plat. This will be one of few that SHOULD be a better experience on the PC. I plan on playing on PC and PS3, but I've always prefered PC gaming.

Bottom line is, PS3 version will be great visually and perfect in control, PC should be visually amazing with minor control flaws... in the first part of it's lifespan.
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#34 Aug 26 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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PerrinofSylph wrote:
tennisfreak wrote:
A blue ray drive can only read data at a certain rate which is leagues and leagues slower than the rate a GPU will request and process the data.
Loading textures that were designed for 512MB of RAM into only 256MB is not easy to do.


You really think they're going to send you a new BluRay everytime there's a client update? Are you going to have to switch discs when you jump between add-on content in the future?

The game will run off the HDD in the PS3, just like it will on the PC.


To be fair, HDD vs. BDROM doesn't matter, they're both ungodly slow compared to RAM.
#35 Aug 26 2010 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent
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BastokFL wrote:
To be fair, HDD vs. BDROM doesn't matter, they're both ungodly slow compared to RAM.


Which can both be overcome by coding easily on a steril (closed) system, within reason of course, but better than they could on the PC with the same resources.
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#36 Aug 27 2010 at 1:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Sankaku seems to enjoy bashing SE for reasons unknown to me. I used to like their site but their articles are frequently absurd, and make mountains out of molehills. "Look at the huge differences between the PS3 and 360 versions of these games!!!" "I... don't see any real difference... wait, ok, now I kinda see it..." "I know, right!? Fail!"

Not a bad site, just not exactly a pillar of journalistic integrity.
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#37 Aug 27 2010 at 12:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Look all I was trying to say is it is going to be impossible for the devs to load textures of the same quality into 256 MB of RAM when the app was made for 512 MB of RAM. Has anyone ever looked at graphics card reviews and seen just how much RAM can impact your framerates when upping the quality/size of the textures? Its a big impact.

Sure they will be creative and come up with some great ways to dynamically load textures faster but the reality is their will be a penalty for the smaller amount of RAM in the PS3.

Again not saying the PS3 will look bad in any "noticable" way.
#38 Aug 27 2010 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Sankaku Complex just lists a real source and then makes up some wild bullsh*t assumption that is vaguely based off what you read in the source if you replace half the words with made up fallacies.


OMG Fox is doing game reviews?
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