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Surplus experience system officially explained by SEFollow

#1 Aug 25 2010 at 6:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Go check your tester site, SE finally explained how this surplus experience works.

Basically, you will get 100% of exp . skill points within 8 hours. Then the next 7 hours, they will be decreasing slowly till 0% .
The cooldown for this system is a week. After a week, it will get reset.

since your exp is not class based. The reduction of exp % will still not stop decreasing.

edit : screenshot from JP tester site posted
ttp://minus-k.com/nejitsu/loader/up63059.jpg
ttp://minus-k.com/nejitsu/loader/up63060.jpg



Edited, Aug 25th 2010 12:20pm by Maruchiru

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 12:23pm by Maruchiru
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#2 Aug 25 2010 at 6:19 AM Rating: Good
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mind = blown
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#3 Aug 25 2010 at 6:27 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

since your exp is not class based. The reduction of exp % will still not stop decreasing.


this sentence doesn't make any sense since your xp IS class based...
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#4 Aug 25 2010 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
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Retracted for now, pending further clarification



Edited, Aug 25th 2010 8:39am by seneleron
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#5 Aug 25 2010 at 6:31 AM Rating: Good
It essentially means that all classes have an auto-refreshing Empress Band effect that degrades after a certain amount of time and recharges back up.
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#6 Aug 25 2010 at 6:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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i take it, it goes with the class exp, and the physical exp. No matter what after 15hrs of exping on all jobs. You get 0 physical exp until a week is up. Is SE trying to kill their own game?

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 8:31am by Zalongamer
#7 Aug 25 2010 at 6:33 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't really get it. Exp is not class based? Also, from what I understand I can level 8h like usual and then during 7h my exp will slowly be reduced and then I have to wait a week to go back and play it again? I must be misunderstanding something...
#8 Aug 25 2010 at 6:33 AM Rating: Good
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I guess there's no chance of getting the actual text? It'd be easier to read through it that way.
#9 Aug 25 2010 at 6:34 AM Rating: Decent
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When it says 100% exp, it probably most likely, means 100% increase of the normal exp amount. Which is probably why surplus exp is called, "surplus exp".

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 8:36am by Coh
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#10 Aug 25 2010 at 6:36 AM Rating: Good
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Here, copied from another post. Whack away ^.^/

Btw, there is a new developer's post at the (Japanese) beta tester's site
that explains the whole system in minute detail. Talk about fast reaction ^.^/

Basically it's 8 hours per week @100% Skill increase, then dwindling to 0
in 10% increments during the following 7 hours. However, this is class-specific.
So playing another class will give you a fresh 100% start for that class for 8 hours.

As pysical level is shared between classes, however, after 8 hours/week it's
down the road no matter what.

And SE seems pretty adamant about that.

Which I, personally cheer them for. Some people simply have to be guided to
get a life. Or play WoW. Or a Korean Grinder.

Of course, you CAN play longer without switching classes and you WILL get EXP.
But by playing double the "normal" time for that class (16 hours) will net you
only 150% of what a 8-hour-player gets.

The only thing SE did wrong was naming this a "fatigue/penalty" system. If they had
stated that "for the first 8 hours every week, you'll get a 100% EXP bonus. Yay!"
everybody would have been happy. Although technically this would be the same thing.

Psychology, psychology.
#11 Aug 25 2010 at 6:37 AM Rating: Decent
Zalongamer wrote:
i take it, it goes with the class exp, and the physical exp. No matter what after 15hrs of exping on all jobs. You get 0 physical exp until a week is up. Is SE trying to kill their own game?

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 8:31am by Zalongamer


That is what I am reading this as also. If its true, and so far I do not see a post about it on the NA beta site, then this really is a stupid move by SE. Sure they say its to help casuals, but even the average casual player is going to want to play more then 7-15 hours a week.
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#12 Aug 25 2010 at 6:38 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
When it says 100% exp, it probably most likely, means 100% increase of the normal exp amount. Which is probably why surplus exp is called, "surplus exp".


So how does that explain getting 0 physical XP after 15 hours every week? Or am I misreading this?
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#13 Aug 25 2010 at 6:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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There is nothing posted on the US beta site about this. So until there is, or until someone that can speak japanese can check the jp beta site, and give a good translation ... i don't know about this.
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#14 Aug 25 2010 at 6:39 AM Rating: Good
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Coh wrote:
When it says 100% exp, it probably most likely, means 100% increase of the normal exp amount. Which is probably why surplus exp is called, "surplus exp".

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 8:36am by Coh


I wonder where all these figures of 90% less exp is coming from then. What you are saying makes sense, and it would mean a maximum "degradation of total exp" to 50% of what you can get when "fully rested" so to speak?
#15 Aug 25 2010 at 6:39 AM Rating: Good
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that probably refers to the amount of bonus exp you will receive from the surplus exp. Once you deplete surplus exp, it will be reduced to a 0% increase of your total exp gaining rate, which effectively means you're back to normal grinding mode, rather than 2x the speed if you had full surplus.
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#16 Aug 25 2010 at 6:40 AM Rating: Good
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I'd take a whack at it, but in picture form its a little rough.
#17 Aug 25 2010 at 6:41 AM Rating: Good
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seneleron wrote:
Quote:
When it says 100% exp, it probably most likely, means 100% increase of the normal exp amount. Which is probably why surplus exp is called, "surplus exp".


So how does that explain getting 0 physical XP after 15 hours every week? Or am I misreading this?


Belive what that other person thinking you quoted is that you start with 200% exp and drops down to 100% exp. Which it is not. After 8hrs of exp, ur physical and class exp starts to go down until it his 0 exp after 7hrs. 8+7=15
#18 Aug 25 2010 at 6:42 AM Rating: Good
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I'm gonna take a crack at it unless an English version beats me to it. With any luck they're translating to post up in English.
#19 Aug 25 2010 at 6:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Actually I believe it's not that they're trying to kill their game but trying to not kill their player base, if you read some of the articles on game addiction coming from Korea. People letting babies starve to death or themselves die of kidney failure just because they haven't left the game in 72+ hours. It's just SE wanting to make sure their players are responsible in the real world, too! How many people here are in school or have jobs or significant others or families?
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#20 Aug 25 2010 at 6:44 AM Rating: Good
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Zalongamer wrote:
seneleron wrote:
Quote:
When it says 100% exp, it probably most likely, means 100% increase of the normal exp amount. Which is probably why surplus exp is called, "surplus exp".


So how does that explain getting 0 physical XP after 15 hours every week? Or am I misreading this?


Belive what that other person thinking you quoted is that you start with 200% exp and drops down to 100% exp. Which it is not. After 8hrs of exp, ur physical and class exp starts to go down until it his 0 exp after 7hrs. 8+7=15


So, SE is saying I can level my character for 8h per week without getting a penalty at all and then 7 after that with less and less efficiency until I can't exp it at all until a week later?
#21 Aug 25 2010 at 6:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Belcrono wrote:
Zalongamer wrote:
seneleron wrote:
Quote:
When it says 100% exp, it probably most likely, means 100% increase of the normal exp amount. Which is probably why surplus exp is called, "surplus exp".


So how does that explain getting 0 physical XP after 15 hours every week? Or am I misreading this?


Belive what that other person thinking you quoted is that you start with 200% exp and drops down to 100% exp. Which it is not. After 8hrs of exp, ur physical and class exp starts to go down until it his 0 exp after 7hrs. 8+7=15


So, SE is saying I can level my character for 8h per week without getting a penalty at all and then 7 after that with less and less efficiency until I can't exp it at all until a week later?


Yep
#22 Aug 25 2010 at 6:46 AM Rating: Good
Gadhelyn wrote:
Actually I believe it's not that they're trying to kill their game but trying to not kill their player base, if you read some of the articles on game addiction coming from Korea. People letting babies starve to death or themselves die of kidney failure just because they haven't left the game in 72+ hours. It's just SE wanting to make sure their players are responsible in the real world, too! How many people here are in school or have jobs or significant others or families?


You don't punish the majority of your playerbase just because some people are stupid and lack common sense. Even if that is the reason, they could easily raise the total time to say 40 hours a week, and keep people happy.
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#23 Aug 25 2010 at 6:47 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:

So, SE is saying I can level my character for 8h per week without getting a penalty at all and then 7 after that with less and less efficiency until I can't exp it at all until a week later?


That wouldn't make any sense at all from any sort of perspective. The only way this system would make sense is that if the fatigue system affected the surplus exp system, rather than the normal exp rate.
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#24 Aug 25 2010 at 6:51 AM Rating: Default
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Mieck, Pie Eating Champion wrote:
It essentially means that all classes have an auto-refreshing Empress Band effect that degrades after a certain amount of time and recharges back up.


and

seneleron wrote:
Quote:
When it says 100% exp, it probably most likely, means 100% increase of the normal exp amount. Which is probably why surplus exp is called, "surplus exp".


So how does that explain getting 0 physical XP after 15 hours every week? Or am I misreading this?


Going off the believe that this is more like a bonus thing (as stated by Mieck), the 0 physical xp is aimed at 0% bonus. It makes sence that your exp will be lower after the bonus wears off and soloing is no longer worth the exp you'd get vs. the exp you get with a party. The Surplus thing is doing exectly what it's ment to do, give the casual players a chance to catch up.
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#25 Aug 25 2010 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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Gadhelyn wrote:
Actually I believe it's not that they're trying to kill their game but trying to not kill their player base, if you read some of the articles on game addiction coming from Korea. People letting babies starve to death or themselves die of kidney failure just because they haven't left the game in 72+ hours. It's just SE wanting to make sure their players are responsible in the real world, too! How many people here are in school or have jobs or significant others or families?


I'm sorry, but that's like getting morbidly obese from eating McDonald's everyday and then suing them because "they made you get fat".

People are responsible for themselves. If SE is doing this partly because of MMO addiction, that is a really bad reason.

If you think you'll get that addicted to MMO's, DONT PLAY THEM.
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#26 Aug 25 2010 at 6:56 AM Rating: Good
I registered just to say this...

What in gods name is SE thinking?! I want to get immersed in the game! I want to get addicted to the game. For christ sake... What is the world coming to? Are we going to have limits on how much time we can spend on single player games as well?
#27 Aug 25 2010 at 6:56 AM Rating: Decent
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ukikithemonkey wrote:
You don't punish the majority of your playerbase just because some people are stupid and lack common sense. Even if that is the reason, they could easily raise the total time to say 40 hours a week, and keep people happy.


Do you really have 8 hours a day (let's assume for argument's sake that we're talking work week here) to play? What about working/classes/homework/shopping/cooking/sleeping/"puddin'"/everything you have to do to get "puddin'"? I don't know about most people here, but all of that does normally take up a significant chunk of my week! Ok, I guess for some "puddin'" only takes 5 minutes, but still.

I just would prefer to think of this as SE being proactively responsible for their players. It's like cigarette companies adding in nicotine patches with their products. It sounds more positive that way!
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#28 Aug 25 2010 at 6:56 AM Rating: Good
RSquires wrote:
Mieck, Pie Eating Champion wrote:
It essentially means that all classes have an auto-refreshing Empress Band effect that degrades after a certain amount of time and recharges back up.


and

seneleron wrote:
Quote:
When it says 100% exp, it probably most likely, means 100% increase of the normal exp amount. Which is probably why surplus exp is called, "surplus exp".


So how does that explain getting 0 physical XP after 15 hours every week? Or am I misreading this?


Going off the believe that this is more like a bonus thing (as stated by Mieck), the 0 physical xp is aimed at 0% bonus. It makes sence that your exp will be lower after the bonus wears off and soloing is no longer worth the exp you'd get vs. the exp you get with a party. The Surplus thing is doing exectly what it's ment to do, give the casual players a chance to catch up.


You also only ever level your Physical EXP (and that is what EXP means in this game) once. Class Skill Bonus will refresh.
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#29 Aug 25 2010 at 6:58 AM Rating: Decent
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ShinoHaven wrote:
Gadhelyn wrote:
Actually I believe it's not that they're trying to kill their game but trying to not kill their player base, if you read some of the articles on game addiction coming from Korea. People letting babies starve to death or themselves die of kidney failure just because they haven't left the game in 72+ hours. It's just SE wanting to make sure their players are responsible in the real world, too! How many people here are in school or have jobs or significant others or families?


I'm sorry, but that's like getting morbidly obese from eating McDonald's everyday and then suing them because "they made you get fat".

People are responsible for themselves. If SE is doing this partly because of MMO addiction, that is a really bad reason.

If you think you'll get that addicted to MMO's, DONT PLAY THEM.


Actually it's more like McDonald's seeing the people who have become morbidly obese because of their food and replacing their menu with healthy, all vegetable, no fat, low cal, low cholestrol, low sodium foods.
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#30 Aug 25 2010 at 6:59 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

Do you really have 8 hours a day (let's assume for argument's sake that we're talking work week here) to play? What about working/classes/homework/shopping/cooking/sleeping/"puddin'"/everything you have to do to get "puddin'"? I don't know about most people here, but all of that does normally take up a significant chunk of my week! Ok, I guess for some "puddin'" only takes 5 minutes, but still.

I just would prefer to think of this as SE being proactively responsible for their players. It's like cigarette companies adding in nicotine patches with their products. It sounds more positive that way!


I'm assuming the 40+ hours wasn't meant to be taken literally, rather the idea behind the number.

With that said, punishing the majority for the fault of the minority just doesn't make any sense at all.



Edit: because I like inserting random words into my cat sentences.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 9:04am by Coh
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#31 Aug 25 2010 at 7:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gadhelyn wrote:
ukikithemonkey wrote:
You don't punish the majority of your playerbase just because some people are stupid and lack common sense. Even if that is the reason, they could easily raise the total time to say 40 hours a week, and keep people happy.


Do you really have 8 hours a day (let's assume for argument's sake that we're talking work week here) to play? What about working/classes/homework/shopping/cooking/sleeping/"puddin'"/everything you have to do to get "puddin'"? I don't know about most people here, but all of that does normally take up a significant chunk of my week! Ok, I guess for some "puddin'" only takes 5 minutes, but still.

I just would prefer to think of this as SE being proactively responsible for their players. It's like cigarette companies adding in nicotine patches with their products. It sounds more positive that way!


It's up to the person who wants to play MMOs to figure out if he/she can work them into his/her schedule. People shouldn't need the game developers to police their playtime.

Quote:
Actually it's more like McDonald's seeing the people who have become morbidly obese because of their food and replacing their menu with healthy, all vegetable, no fat, low cal, low cholestrol, low sodium foods.


Again, it's up the the person to decide to stop eating f'ing McDonald's and eat healthier.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 8:02am by ShinoHaven
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#32 Aug 25 2010 at 7:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Gadhelyn wrote:
ukikithemonkey wrote:
You don't punish the majority of your playerbase just because some people are stupid and lack common sense. Even if that is the reason, they could easily raise the total time to say 40 hours a week, and keep people happy.


Do you really have 8 hours a day (let's assume for argument's sake that we're talking work week here) to play? What about working/classes/homework/shopping/cooking/sleeping/"puddin'"/everything you have to do to get "puddin'"? I don't know about most people here, but all of that does normally take up a significant chunk of my week! Ok, I guess for some "puddin'" only takes 5 minutes, but still.

I just would prefer to think of this as SE being proactively responsible for their players. It's like cigarette companies adding in nicotine patches with their products. It sounds more positive that way!


Puddin!
I'm still waiting for an official english explanation. Until that happens, this is all still speculation. Thanks to programs like Photoshop, i don't trust random pics on the internet. I'm not saying it didn't happen, i just want an official word on it.
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#33 Aug 25 2010 at 7:04 AM Rating: Good
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A week-long ****block? You've got to be kidding me.

I don't see this lasting long. I can imagine a good many players in-game for around 3-4 hours a day, grinding away; after 2-2 1/2 days, what does SE expect them to do? I mean, I know the game is beautiful and all, but are we really going to stand around for an entire week simply enjoying the scenery? No.

Guess there's always RP to look forward to... :v
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#34 Aug 25 2010 at 7:07 AM Rating: Decent
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I ain't saying that they're right for putting it in there, justing pointing out a possible reason why they would do so.
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#35 Aug 25 2010 at 7:07 AM Rating: Good
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Although I'm really slow at this and SE apparently is too, please be patient until we have it written in easy to understand English.
#36 Aug 25 2010 at 7:08 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Going off the believe that this is more like a bonus thing (as stated by Mieck), the 0 physical xp is aimed at 0% bonus. It makes sence that your exp will be lower after the bonus wears off and soloing is no longer worth the exp you'd get vs. the exp you get with a party. The Surplus thing is doing exectly what it's ment to do, give the casual players a chance to catch up.


Well, just that Mieck is definitely wrong. But for the sceptics: just wait until... well open Beta. Or an offical announcement on the US forums.
#37 Aug 25 2010 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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Aw, now everyone's gonna miss my awesome cake analogy in the other post. ._.

Quote:
"Foreign sites have lots of false rumors. They throw together words and fabricate remarks. Then Japanese sites take this and further [falsify it through] mistranslation. The fatigue point criticism has absolutely nothing to do with the actual [system] and is just full of wild ideas."

Yep this is absolutely nothing like what the NA community has been talking about.

Anyone getting an Animal Farm kind of vibe?
squealer wrote:
Square Enix would never do such a thing! These are evil rumors spread by the NA players and their pig Snowball!

squealer wrote:
You must be remembering incorrectly, we always have supported the Surplus windmill, you will see how great it is in time!


#38 Aug 25 2010 at 7:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
A week-long ****block? You've got to be kidding me.

I don't see this lasting long. I can imagine a good many players in-game for around 3-4 hours a day, grinding away; after 2-2 1/2 days, what does SE expect them to do? I mean, I know the game is beautiful and all, but are we really going to stand around for an entire week simply enjoying the scenery? No.

Guess there's always RP to look forward to... :v


Dammit, learn to read the whole explanation posted again and again before throwing in over-inflated and baseless assumptions.

Last time:
1. 8 hours every week.
2. after 8 hours, 7 hours decreasing until 0.
3. No refresh until one week has passed.
4. Only combat time counts.
5. System is Class-specific. Switching to another class will give you a new 8 hours of normal EXP for that class.
6. Physical level EXP will always go down after 8 hours, since it is shared between classes.
7. Of course you can play as long as you want. Just not grind one Job to LV99 using bots and a 80-hour powerlevel.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 9:14am by Rinsui
#39 Aug 25 2010 at 7:13 AM Rating: Default
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The vibe I'm getting is more of a, "the sky is falling" vibe.

Despite popular opinion, SE is a company full of smart people with experience in their profession. To do something so blatantly damaging to a franchise is literally committing suicide. The fatigue system affecting normal exp rate is so dumb that it's inconceivable.
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#40 Aug 25 2010 at 7:14 AM Rating: Good
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Lemme see if I can accurately sum this up.

At the start of the week mobs give 150% XP for 8 hours for both physical and class. After 8 hours that number starts to dwindle for 7 more hours until it arrives at 100% XP [down from 150%] And there it caps. You cannot get LESS than 100% XP [which may have been glitched in the beta, further fueling the controvercy?]

for the rest of the week you can continue leveling as much as you want, but you will not get the 150% bonus until, say, 10 AM CST sunday morning [oh, they said they weren't gonna use JP midnight, but it's as convenient a time as any ;) ]


Did that about sum it up correctly?

The way I originally was reading this was that mobs start out giving 100% XP for 8 hours, and then it starts dropping for the next 7 hours, until mobs only gave you 10% xp. This is, I'm hoping, the incorrect assessment of the situation.
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#41 Aug 25 2010 at 7:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well you can always go back to XI after your 8 hours.

..oh wait! >__________>
#42 Aug 25 2010 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
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My take from reading about it, there is no need to be alarmed. It's honestly a good thing.

Dumbed down, it means:

Within the first eight hours, you have a BONUS 100% EXP gain. Afterwards, during the following seven or so hours, you have reduced BONUS EXP gain. You never stop gaining experience, just BONUS experience. It's a positive to the casuals, and nothing to the hardcore. It's like WoW or any other game's "rested EXP", only in a different fashion. No negatives, only positives.
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#43 Aug 25 2010 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Last time:
1. 8 hours every week.
2. after 8 hours, 7 hours decreasing until 0.
3. No refresh until one week has passed.
4. Only combat time counts.
5. System is Class-specific. Switching to another class will give you a new 8 hours of normal EXP for that class.
6. Physical level EXP will always go down after 8 hours, since it is shared between classes.
7. Of course you can play as long as you want. Just not grind one Job to LV99 using bots and a 80-hour powerlevel[/sm][/i]


How will this affect DoL/DoH classes if only combat time counts?
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#44 Aug 25 2010 at 7:16 AM Rating: Default
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No. 100% wrong.
See above.
I am just quoting the (JP) beta tester's site clarification.
But just believe what you want to.
#45 Aug 25 2010 at 7:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Dammit, learn to read the whole explanation posted again and again before throwing in over-inflated and baseless assumptions.

Last time:
6. Physical level EXP will always go down after 8 hours, since it is shared between classes.

Read #6. Explain what that means to me, before I make another over-inflated and baseless assumption.
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#46 Aug 25 2010 at 7:18 AM Rating: Good
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So surplus xp means your epmpress band wears off. I got no problem with that.
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#47 Aug 25 2010 at 7:18 AM Rating: Decent
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@ShinoHaven
Got me. Unclean translation. Literally it says "doing stuff that gives you Experience/Skill".
#48 Aug 25 2010 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
@ShinoHaven
Got me. Unclean translation. Literally it says "doing stuff that gives you Experience/Skill".


Oh, ok. Thanks. =)
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#49 Aug 25 2010 at 7:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh wait, this means we actually get an 8 hour empress band? This just gets better and better lol.
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#50 Aug 25 2010 at 7:23 AM Rating: Default
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Raiziell wrote:
My take from reading about it, there is no need to be alarmed. It's honestly a good thing.

Dumbed down, it means:

Within the first eight hours, you have a BONUS 100% EXP gain. Afterwards, during the following seven or so hours, you have reduced BONUS EXP gain. You never stop gaining experience, just BONUS experience. It's a positive to the casuals, and nothing to the hardcore. It's like WoW or any other game's "rested EXP", only in a different fashion. No negatives, only positives.


Okay, if this is it, what they need to do is change how the game informs the player meaning:

When you kill a monster it should show you how much Skill exp that you receive,
Then how much Physical EXP that you receive,
Then how much BONUS (surplus) Skill EXP that you receive,
and then how much BONUS (surplus) Physical EXP that you receive.

I really hope that Raiziell is right.
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#51 Aug 25 2010 at 7:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quite a few theories in here. Hard to make judgment until we hear official word from SE.
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