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Surplus experience system officially explained by SEFollow

#152 Aug 25 2010 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
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so pros:
-The game will last longer for you because you'll be left always wanting more instead of going at it 200% and burning out more quickly. This will build a stronger community because there will be more "old" players around longer.

-It's good for the economy because more people will be actively engaging in the market to help average things out and crafting lower, no xp recipes, so base items like arrowheads will be cheap as dirt making thing like crafted arrows actually viable.

-People will tend to socialize more, I would just LOVE for SE to add in something to add to this like triple triad though. (things for us to do and accomplish without XP will be important to lessen the punishment of xp penalties without lessening our enjoyment of the game)


In a way it might make people more helpful. I know it sounds silly, but hear me out. To the people that played FFXI: Wasn't it annoying trying to shout for hours on end trying to get help on a quest or mission? Literally 90% of the people that saw that shout didn't want to help because they either wanted to wait for a exp party or something that benefited them. I guess if you can't really exp anymore there will be more people wanting to help others with their free time. (I'm just trying to look at the glass half full)
#153 Aug 25 2010 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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I won't make a judgment call on this until i can compare the leveling curve to FF XI. I never rush to max level anyway, and i doubt i'll ever see 0% XP. I can see where this will also deter people from rushing to max level, then quitting out of boredom. I've seen that many times in other MMO's.
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#154 Aug 25 2010 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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I'm sorry, but that's like getting morbidly obese from eating McDonald's everyday and then suing them because "they made you get fat".

People are responsible for themselves. If SE is doing this partly because of MMO addiction, that is a really bad reason.

If you think you'll get that addicted to MMO's, DONT PLAY THEM.


I'm sorry, but this is just wrong. People SHOULD be responsible for themselves, but that is hardly ever the case. The fact that lawsuits like that are brought up on a regular basis and some are even won, proves that people aren't responsible for the harm they bring to themselves. SE is just covering their own interests and I don't blame them. Sadly I don't see how this system would help that since all they have to do is change classes to get right back to their addiction.
#155 Aug 25 2010 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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But I'm confused because he says:

"Any experience earned past that point is saved as “surplus.” There is surplus for each class, and if you begin to see it please consider playing another class and adjust accordingly.

However, experience points are not specific to any class and therefore the decrease in experience points is not affected by changing classes."

Why would he say to consider playing another class then say decrease is not affected by changing classes?
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#156 Aug 25 2010 at 11:10 AM Rating: Decent
Honestly - whatever the system is - I'll deal. I'm not really concerned. I know very few people with agree with me when I say this - but I don't see the problem in encouraging people to not play too much. I don't think it should go down to zero though.

For myself - if this system was as bad as people are making it out to be (which at least in beta, it really isn't) it would just encourage me to do other things. Which isn't terrible.
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#157 Aug 25 2010 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks for the link RedGalka. OP, it would be helpful if you could update the initial post with that link.

Now that we have better clarification of how the system works, I'm STILL perplexed with it. Rewarding casual players makes complete sense, but restricting hardcore players does not. I don't care how it's sliced, it's just flat out unnecessary. You can stretch it out to 40 hours before it starts imposing it's limits, it's still unnecessary.

All the development time wasted on these requirements is appalling, let alone the community is going to criticize & nerdrage over this until this system ends up being something completely different than what SE's original intent was.

So, what does that mean?

- SE invested hundreds of hours designing, implementing & testing this requirement
- SE enraged their community, causing negative publicity, and possibly losing potential customers
- SE will have to maintain this *potential* ever-changing requirement based on split customer viewpoints on it's necessity

What am I getting at? Well, whether you either don't care about it, or hate it, it's simply an unnecessary gameplay mechanic. A waste of $$ invested in the game, when they could have used their resources to continue polishing the game, developing additional launch content, etc.

There's a reason why you do feedback sessions on new projects, and I can guarantee if they had this topic up for open debate earlier in it's lifecycle, they would have struck this requirement from development all together. This is one of the things that is probably splitting up morale amongst the developers...I don't beleive for one minute every developer agrees with the practicality of this requirement.

Okay, my nerdrage is over.





Edited, Aug 25th 2010 1:17pm by KnocturnalOne
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#158 Aug 25 2010 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Why would he say to consider playing another class then say decrease is not affected by changing classes?


Because he's talking about Class Skill in the one case, and about Physical EXP in the other o^.^o
#159 Aug 25 2010 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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I'm hoping this is just a storm in a teacup.
Seems suicidal to limit gameplay by such a huge amount.
Mind you, if it is right and I can only level 20% of the time, I'll be sending SE a bill for 80% of the subscription.
#160 Aug 25 2010 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
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Any way you slice this revelation, whether mega bonus or uber penalty, it makes carrying a spare weapon for a class you are not interested in extremely important.
That way when you are running around, BSing with frinds, messing around in chat, wasting time LFP, traveling too and from guildleves, etc you aren't burning minutes and hours of skill xp in your preferred class.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 1:21pm by Dintar
#161 Aug 25 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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Now that we have an easy to read translation for all to see, lets not forget, (and I know people hate seeing this) that this is still beta and as mentioned its still under development and they are aware of people's reactions to the decrease in exp since they will be adjusting it so that people aren't reaching this cap very easily (at least I hope so).

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 1:22pm by ThePacster

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 1:22pm by ThePacster
#162 Aug 25 2010 at 11:24 AM Rating: Excellent
I have a question if anyone knows or if it's even been brought up:

Now is the 8hr/XP amount cap cumlative or daily? What I mean is, if you don't hit the cap do you get a fresh cap the next day and the weekly timer only occurs if you break the magical 8hr/XP amount? Example: If I level for 6 hours one day, neither hitting the time or XP cap do I get 2 hours the next day or another 8? If the cap rolls over daily that makes much more sense than limiting playing time as a class, and it's something I can see getting lost in translation or just a bad explanation.
#163 Aug 25 2010 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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Problem with this system for me is that when my friend starts already at 22 september and myself a week later at 30 september: I will never be able to catch up to him unless I force him to not level for a week. Like that's going to happen. 8+7 hours of exp until capped for a week seems so easy to achieve too.
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#164 Aug 25 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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ThePacster wrote:
Now that we have an easy to read translation for all to see, lets not forget, (and I know people hate seeing this) that this is still beta and as mentioned its still under development and they are aware of people's reactions to the decrease in exp since they will be adjusting it so that people aren't reaching this cap very easily (at least I hope so).

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 1:22pm by ThePacster

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 1:22pm by ThePacster


Unfortunately, for me, that answer still isn't going to cut it. I mean, I really do appreciate him taking the time to clarify what it is and their acknowledgement of the user bases concerns, however, it needs to get removed altogether. See my earlier point, tweaking it to the point that it no longer serves it's original intent is a waste of time invested. Common sense & good business execution can go a long way...

The basic idea should be to reward casual players so their time invested gets them somewhere, but NOT penalize your hardcore players. It is us, afterall, who've continued to pay subscriptions for FFXI and established your success enabling their second entrance into the MMO landscape.
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#165 Aug 25 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
KnocturnalOne wrote:
I don't care how it's sliced, it's just flat out unnecessary. You can stretch it out to 40 hours before it starts imposing it's limits, it's still unnecessary.


You may think it is unnecessary - the developers obviously think it is necessary. If you were trying to make money off a game would you rather have 1000 subscribers that play only sometimes (thus using less server resources) or 100 subs that play 24/7? The answer is simple. They really want this game to appeal to players with less time on their hands. You may think that sucks or it is wrong, but you didn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars developing the game, so your opinion, while valid, may not win the day. I think this approach may blow up in SE's faces, but it may not.

Keep in mind there are more than 500K preorders 100K in NA alone. How many of those people are on fansites? Given the traffic here - even when beta keys were offered - I would say that less than 10 per cent of folks are on these fansites. The hardcore players are a small percentage of total gamers. I know hardcore players don't believe this, and people are going to rate me down for even suggesting this (which is pretty stupid by the way, since I am not out of line to express these things) but hardcore players are the minority. Most people have jobs and families and other hobbies. Also - there is a sense to it - the law of declining returns exists in the real world and I don't see the problem with having it in game.

Now, myself I would like the cooldown to be more sensible since I will be playing a lot on weekends and not a lot during the week and I'd like to echo what another poster said about feeling they might not be able to play at all during the week if they want to enjoy their weekends.

However, if it doesn't apply to job experience cross-class, then even that shouldn't be a problem.

Anyway people need to stow the rage a little bit. It seems pretty out of proportion to the issue at hand here.



Edited, Aug 25th 2010 1:53pm by Olorinus
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#166 Aug 25 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Default
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Sounds like to me you get 15 hours a week of bonus exp, which is cool by me.

Edit: well i just realized =P we have more than a page of discussion.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 1:35pm by FaithseekerOishii
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#167 Aug 25 2010 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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I thought, from what I read, that they are using 8 hrs as their template too see how much exp can possibly be obtained, by a hardcore player in that allotted time. And that fatigue is going to be adjusted according to the amount of exp we gain to set a balance between casual and hardcore. From what I read, the system is in place and is set in stone, but the amount of exp needed before fatigue kicks in is still being adjusted. So with that, I don't think its a time limit we are faced with, but the amount of exp in that time frame.
eg..
So, I'm fighting mobs, gathering or crafting. I get only 50k exp within my 8 hrs of play, so I don't see fatigue because fatigue starts to kicks in when I hit 100k xp within 8hrs of playing.
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#168 Aug 25 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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So, I'm fighting mobs, gathering or crafting. I get only 50k exp within my 8 hrs of play, so I don't see fatigue because fatigue starts to kicks in when I hit 100k xp within 8hrs of playing.


This is the way I understand it, I used the 8 hr reference since ppl are familiar with it. What I want to know is if after hitting 50k are you limited to another 50k (or whatever the limit ends up being) for 7 days or do you get another 100k limit the next day since you did not hit the Surplus cap?
#169 Aug 25 2010 at 11:58 AM Rating: Default
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Well if this is a surplus like an Empress Band, 100% bonus to 0% in 15 hours I will keep my pre-order. However. If this turns out to be a penalty for someone who loves playing the game and spending their time in Eorzea, I will effectively cancel both my pre-orders today and I will just go back to Final Fantasy XI. I am hoping that someone mistranslated this article. I guess we shall see when Elmer officially translates it for us.

Let's hope they are not penalizing their players. I am not a casual player anyways. I loved Final Fantasy XI from the beginning cause it was more hardcore and less casual friendly.
#170 Aug 25 2010 at 12:00 PM Rating: Decent
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After the game is out for a few months, SE will bribe people to double their exp time/cap for an extra 9.99 per month.
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#171 Aug 25 2010 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
KnocturnalOne wrote:
I don't care how it's sliced, it's just flat out unnecessary. You can stretch it out to 40 hours before it starts imposing it's limits, it's still unnecessary.


You may think it is unnecessary - the developers obviously think it is necessary. If you were trying to make money off a game would you rather have 1000 subscribers that play only sometimes (thus using less server resources) or 100 subs that play 24/7? The answer is simple. They really want this game to appeal to players with less time on their hands. You may think that sucks or it is wrong, but you didn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars developing the game, so your opinion, while valid, may not win the day. I think this approach may blow up in SE's faces, but it may not.

Keep in mind there are more than 500K preorders in NA alone. How many of those people are on fansites? Given the traffic here - even when beta keys were offered - I would say that less than 10 per cent of folks are on these fansites. The hardcore players are a small percentage of total gamers. I know hardcore players don't believe this, and people are going to rate me down for even suggesting this (which is pretty stupid by the way, since I am not out of line to express these things) but hardcore players are the minority. Most people have jobs and families and other hobbies. Also - there is a sense to it - the law of declining returns exists in the real world and I don't see the problem with having it in game.

Now, myself I would like the cooldown to be more sensible since I will be playing a lot on weekends and not a lot during the week and I'd like to echo what another poster said about feeling they might not be able to play at all during the week if they want to enjoy their weekends.

However, if it doesn't apply to job experience cross-class, then even that shouldn't be a problem.

Anyway people need to stow the rage a little bit. It seems pretty out of proportion to the issue at hand here.



I don't disagree with your logic at all. With that said, a couple things to consider:

- There are not 500K pre-orders, but around 160K (per FFXIV Core)
- Of that group, many of them are the people on these boards who clearly have displayed their dislike of this option
- Given the lack of marketing campaign, the casual players are likely to find out about this game through people like us, who may not come to be very fond of the game pending outcome of this option
- If you really believe their notion of largely caring for the casual players, I sure hope they have some good analysts predictions as to how they will attract these casual games. If FFXI is any indication of their marketing tactics, they'll have a hard time finding new players (casual) to stick around and fatten their pockets.

I fully realize my aforementioned points are largely speculation, but common sense prevails IMO.

As for slowing the nerd raging down, I disagree - we've gotten their attention, which is a good thing, now we have to convince them to not penalize their loyal customers!

Lastly, I appreciate your disagreeing in a logical manner, and happy rate-up coming!
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#172 Aug 25 2010 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
Now, myself I would like the cooldown to be more sensible since I will be playing a lot on weekends and not a lot during the week and I'd like to echo what another poster said about feeling they might not be able to play at all during the week if they want to enjoy their weekends.

However, if it doesn't apply to job experience cross-class, then even that shouldn't be a problem.


Idk if you were referencing my post earlier today, but I was thinking of this further at "work" (long story Smiley: lol). If this surplus system is kept track of in active mode, does that mean that it exists only for DoM/DoW? I think I could handle that, actually, if I really get into crafting. I could spend my weekdays with Leathercrafting, Carpentry, and Alchemy to prepare my character for the weekend (leather armor, staff, potions, and ethers). Then, when I have larger chunks of time to play, I could make use of all that crafting work when I party. Crap, did I just convince myself to play again?


EDIT: Leaving up what I had before, JIC; but from the more recent posts, it looks like I was making incorrect assumptions about the system.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 2:19pm by PLDXavier
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#173 Aug 25 2010 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
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It's not by hours at all. It's up to a set EXP limit. The OP is losely translating.

i think we need a new post with the Tonoka statement.
#174 Aug 25 2010 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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My question is pretty simple.....

I use up all my allocated xp and skill points on physical, pugalist, marauder, and lancer in a day of power grinding. Does that mean i have to wait 6-7 days to start grinding away on those things again?
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#175 Aug 25 2010 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
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Surplus experience is currently not being used. However, we have received many comments suggesting some sort of reward be put into effect regarding it, and we think that’s a pretty interesting idea. We don’t want to get ahead of ourselves, though, and we’re currently investigating the possibilities.

Open Beta will not just see changes to the issues stated above but will also see adjustments made to encourage party play even more (such as an increase to skill points), which the team is currently hard at work on adjusting. We hope you’ll all test it out when the time comes.

Finally, we would like to apologize for the lateness of any developer comments due to my attendance of Gamecom this past week. In my absence much fuss was raised over speculation, old information and some mistranslations on overseas fansites *(what?! /panic. Though I wonder what that’s in reference to in particular). I hope to avoid this from happening again by delivering developer comments as promptly as possible. Thank you all for your understanding.


This alone makes me feel a little better.
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#176 Aug 25 2010 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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Here is kotaku's translation:

http://kotaku.com/5621786/final-fantasy-xivs-play+limiting-fatigue-system-explained

If it is true I think SE is shooting this game in the foot.
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#177 Aug 25 2010 at 12:16 PM Rating: Decent
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http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/11964-surplus-and-you-komoto-speaks/
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#178 Aug 25 2010 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Crap, did I just convince myself to play again?


LOL
#179 Aug 25 2010 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
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Beaten to it, nvm

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 2:18pm by seneleron
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#180 Aug 25 2010 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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The answer is simple. They really want this game to appeal to players with less time on their hands.


Yeah Olo, next you'll tell us this is a revolutionary vision never accomplished by other developers. Go polish SE's boots some more.
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#181 Aug 25 2010 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
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Where is the information about it being EXP-based, not time-based? Because that seemed to come from somebody else's translation and not the "Surplus and You: Komoto Speaks!" translated page. What that translation says is:

Quote:
Within the first eight hours of play, you can earn 100% experience. The seven hour period following will see your possible experience gradually approach zero.


Which I take to mean as for your first 8 hours (of actual engagement/fighting, not simply time spent with the weapon equipped in town) you earn 100% exp, then from hour 8 to hour 15 that 100% figure gradually reduces to 0, and it IS time based. (At least according to this translation.) And the week long "cooldown" also begins when you equip the weapon and start battle, however the cooldown does NOT stop when you unequip your weapon. In other words, you put your lance at noon on Monday and do two straight hours of battle (meaning 6 hours left without penalty). You then take off your lance and go craft (or sit in town with your lance on, but AFK), your remaining "surplus-free" time remains 6 hours, but your weekly timer is counting down, so no matter how slowly or quickly you EXP, you will be refreshed at noon next Monday. (So if you EXP 2 hours per day for 4 days, you have to wait 3 days before you're refreshed. Assuming you never want to play during ANY level of surplus. I'm not including the 7 hours where you still get EXP but it's gradually reduced.)

Edit: Short story: there is literally nothing in that translated message that has anything to do with it being an EXP-based system (that I can see). It doesn't make sense anyway because the EXP you are "capable of" in 8 hours is extremely variable, based on class/gear level/effective ability use/party or solo/etc... It would make no sense to try and create a standard from that. But time is global and makes more sense (and from that point on what you DO with that time is a testament to your class/gear/skill/party/solo/etc).


Edited, Aug 25th 2010 2:45pm by Kaelia88
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#182 Aug 25 2010 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
RedGalka wrote:
ThePacster wrote:
@Vacymasters
I'm well aware of what the word dormancy means, now is not the time for smart remarks. Can someone tell me what dormancy might mean pertaining to classes in the game since I do not have access to the Beta? I'm trying to help out by understanding what was written in Japanese and translating it for everyone here to read.

Edit:
As I just stated earlier, although its saying apart of your experience goes to "dormancy" its not explaining where this dormant exp goes. It just gives some reference to playing different jobs when the dormancy occurs.
Edited, Aug 25th 2010 10:51am by ThePacster

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 10:55am by ThePacster


Couldn't it just be saying that the surplus buff itself goes dormant/shutdown until the week is over and it activates again?


It could be saying that, but it's not how it works in game. There is no "bonus" of any kind except for the Guardian Aspect buff.
#183 Aug 25 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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GuardianFaith wrote:
Quote:
The answer is simple. They really want this game to appeal to players with less time on their hands.


Yeah Olo, next you'll tell us this is a revolutionary vision never accomplished by other developers.


Not to get in the middle of anything, but that made me laugh pretty good...
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#184 Aug 25 2010 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
Kaelia88 wrote:
Where is the information about it being EXP-based, not time-based? Because that seemed to come from somebody else's translation and not the "Surplus and You: Komoto Speaks!" translated page. What that translation says is:

Quote:
Within the first eight hours of play, you can earn 100% experience. The seven hour period following will see your possible experience gradually approach zero.




If you read further into that translation, Tanaka talks about the reasons why people only started noticeing Surplus XP during beta phase 3. One thing he mentions is that XP gains were too high at the start of P3, which caused people to reach surplus much faster than they ought to. That statment obviously makes no sense if it is completely time based, since the rate of XP gain doesn't cause time to accelerate. It would take some remarkable technology to do that!

The translation is ambiguous. One system is explained, and then later on, that explanation is contradicted by another explanation.

In my opinion, having it based on XP gain rather than passage of time makes far more sense, since the goal is to restrict the advantage of greater play time and not to punish those who get XP less efficiently in the first place. My personal experience is that on a couple of occasions I went /afk with my character standing around for hours, and never experienced surplus XP. I did experience surplus, however, after as little as 4-5 hours of highly productive grinding on a single class. Once OB begins, people can go and test it to try and find a conclusive answer.
#185 Aug 25 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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Ah, I can see that. Thanks for clarifying.
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#186 Aug 25 2010 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:


Keep in mind there are more than 500K preorders in NA alone.


http://www.vgchartz.com/preorders.php

Doesn't look like 500k to me, but maybe you have another source, such as the voices in your head.
#187 Aug 25 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Decent
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so after reading about this surplus exp i think that it is going to really suck for ps3 players who have friends that play on pc.

the 6 month gap to me will now actually really be a issue due to the fact that you are limited in how fast you can grow. so if your friends started out playing at pc release and you join in at ps3 release there will be almost no way that you will be able to catch up them or really even do anything together.

reason for this
1 there physical level always be higher then yours till you reach cap some ways down the road or they just stop playing for a long time for you to catch up.

2 they way the class system is with surplus exp your friends will have many of there classes already leveled up since they will be more or less forced to level many class at the time.

in a way it kinda reminds be of EVE a little ones with the head start will always have a head start
#188 Aug 25 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I still dont understand why SE feels the need for fatigue. They want casuals and hardcore players to be playing together? Casuals solo, they dont give a fly for grouping. I will never understand it.
#189 Aug 25 2010 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
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You think people obsessing over EXP/hr was bad in XI just wait till this pile of **** system hits. If it is really based on an 8/15 hour timer and not an amount of skill gained, people with anything less than the "perfect setup" are going to be awfully lonely.

I haven't played enough in the Beta to hit the point where exp starts to drop right off but nowhere in the translation did I read the word Bonus.
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#190 Aug 25 2010 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
PLDXavier, Defender of Justice wrote:
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
Now, myself I would like the cooldown to be more sensible since I will be playing a lot on weekends and not a lot during the week and I'd like to echo what another poster said about feeling they might not be able to play at all during the week if they want to enjoy their weekends.

However, if it doesn't apply to job experience cross-class, then even that shouldn't be a problem.


Idk if you were referencing my post earlier today, but I was thinking of this further at "work" (long story Smiley: lol). If this surplus system is kept track of in active mode, does that mean that it exists only for DoM/DoW? I think I could handle that, actually, if I really get into crafting. I could spend my weekdays with Leathercrafting, Carpentry, and Alchemy to prepare my character for the weekend (leather armor, staff, potions, and ethers). Then, when I have larger chunks of time to play, I could make use of all that crafting work when I party. Crap, did I just convince myself to play again?


EDIT: Leaving up what I had before, JIC; but from the more recent posts, it looks like I was making incorrect assumptions about the system.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 2:19pm by PLDXavier


Yeah I was referencing you. My understanding of what was posted at core is that only Physical exp "surplus" will continue if you switch classes - which isn't that big of a deal imo. I actually haven't really noticed ANY difference from my physical level. The impact of a high physical level seems to be pretty tiny.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#191 Aug 25 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
Imaboomer wrote:
I still dont understand why SE feels the need for fatigue. They want casuals and hardcore players to be playing together? Casuals solo, they dont give a fly for grouping. I will never understand it.


Generally I think I would be considered "casual" because I don't have a lot of time to play. I prefer to group. I don't think it is accurate to say "casuals solo" - some casuals do - but so do lots of hardcore players
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#192 Aug 25 2010 at 1:06 PM Rating: Default
KarlHungis Delivers on Time wrote:
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:


Keep in mind there are more than 500K preorders in NA alone.


http://www.vgchartz.com/preorders.php

Doesn't look like 500k to me, but maybe you have another source, such as the voices in your head.


Thanks, other than the snide comment. I was remembering the number wrong from that other thread. I would rate up for clearing up the misinformation but you're being a jerk.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#193 Aug 25 2010 at 1:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Cross thread shenanigans:

Hmm, I'll have to see how fast it really takes to hit surplus before I can really comment on it. But currently it took me 2 days of playing multiple classes (pug to 10, bot to 14, ww to 7, archer to 2) for me to hit surplus on botany. This type of play style is something I can only maintain on the weekends when I have no homework, or when I'm off from school and still can't get a job.

A couple things need to be changed for me to not be ****** off. One, the exp decrease should never go down to 0%. If I want to stay on one class @#%^ing let me stay on one class. Exp decrease should cap out at -25% exp max. Two, gained Surplus exp should go towards increasing exp gained on other jobs not at surplus. And three, The changes made to the gathering nerf that accumulates over time better be good ones. >:O

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 3:12pm by Deadgye
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#194 Aug 25 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Have just been reading up on this and want a say on it like everyone else.
first up im a long time ff11 player but have not touched the beta of ff14 but do plan to get it.
when i first heard about ff14 i thought maybe they would drop Levels all together and just focus on skills but seems they did not and went with classes, as i have not played the beta i have no idea how it works at the moment and if it similar to ff11 level system or not.
If there is a cap on skill gain and exp i think im the casual / hardcore gamer they may be aiming this at as i play ff11 about at most 14 hours a week, sometimes less and some times more depending on what free time i have.

i think it's a mistake to stop skill gain and exp if thats how system works and say you can not gain any more after so many hours.
because this in itself may lead to people playing a certain way to max out what they can over that time period.

The 100% bonus and then going down however does not sound so bad and what they should do, if have at 14 hours an amount that is that you still gain but not as much as first 7 hours and be at the low limit but not so bad that its not worth it at all.

one reasons why wow is so successful , even though i dont play it is because you can max out yourself level wise very fast compared to say ff11.

I think i also have to accept that no mmorpg will ever be an even playing field (even wow), i think this is impossible even with the good intentions that the square enix people are try to get with there system.

I think the focus should be on making event and things they add in ff14 accesiable to all players not just as few with xyz job or class, there are many ways to do this i think without limit those that are bit more hardcore.

an example what i mean ,trial weapons are ok in ff11 but the way to aquire them is just frustating so make it fun to get these great weapons is what i say.

Give us more stuff like campaign as well, that really was a good event that might not be crazy exp like abysses but yeah its heck fun to do at first and also once i cap the max rank can i lock it in, so i can keep my rank and go focus on raising a chocobo instead rather than have use my time maintain the rank.

varied events are great, pankatron was fun even though it has not great rewards also bastillia is fun even though no one does it now , mainly because people want rewards and they need take all there time go dynamis or whatever other end game so they no time to do bastillia that has no real rewards, except it fun, i guess that the reward.

i will be on at launch and can't wait like every one else but lets hope for some fun as it is a game and not a chore you must get through which is mmorpg games in general not just ff11 i find is there a fair bit.







Edited, Aug 25th 2010 3:31pm by maxwinterstorm
#195 Aug 25 2010 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
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So here's my understanding of it. One week in the life of a softcore (28 hours a week) FFXIV player.

Level 1 Gladiator grinding at 10K exp/hour, 2.5K skill/hour (Nice, easy numbers)

Day 1
=================================
After 1 hour  - 10K exp gained | 2.5K skill gained | Physical Level 3 | Gladiator Level 3
After 2 hours - 10K exp gained | 2.5K skill gained | Physical Level 5 | Gladiator Level 4
After 3 hours - 10K exp gained | 2.5K skill gained | Physical Level 6 | Gladiator Level 5
After 4 hours - 10K exp gained | 2.5K skill gained | Physical Level 7 | Gladiator Level 6
Sleep, work, class, whatever.

Day 2
=================================
After 1 hour - 10K exp gained | 2.5K skill gained | Physical Level 7 | Gladiator Level 7
After 2 hours - 10K exp gained | 2.5K skill gained | Physical Level 7 | Gladiator Level 8
After 3 hours - 10K exp gained | 2.5K skill gained | Physical Level 8 | Gladiator Level 8
After 4 hours - 10K exp gained | 2.5K skill gained | Physical Level 10 | Gladiator Level 9
Sleep, work, class, whatever.

Day 3
=================================
After 1 hour - 9K exp gained | 2.00K skill gained | Physical Level 10 | Gladiator Level 9
After 2 hours - 8K exp gained | 1.75K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Gladiator Level 9
After 3 hours - 7K exp gained | 1.50K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Gladiator Level 9
After 4 hours - 6K exp gained | 1.25K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Gladiator Level 10
Sleep, work, class, whatever.

Day 4
=================================
After 1 hour - 4K exp gained | 1.00K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Gladiator Level 10
After 2 hours - 3K exp gained | 0.75K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Gladiator Level 10
After 3 hours - 1K exp gained | 0.50K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Gladiator Level 10


From this point on, any effort at all will result in no change to either Gladiator level or Physical level. You could spend the next 80 hours grinding mobs on Gladiator, and there won't be a single benefit to it (aside from maybe some items or coinage).

One downside to this system is that it takes longer to level a single class. You're a level 10 Gladiator instead of the level 12 you would be without the system in place. For the next 3 days, your gladiator has to sit there and not do a single thing. One upside to this system is that it encourages players to play multiple "classes". Since your Gladiator is down, and you still have 3 days left, why not level up Pugilist?

Day 4
=================================
After 1 hour - 0 exp gained | 2.5K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Pugilist Level 3
Sleep, work, class, whatever.

Day 5
=================================
After 1 hour - 0 exp gained | 2.5K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Pugilist Level 4
After 2 hours - 0 exp gained | 2.5K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Pugilist Level 5
After 3 hours - 0 exp gained | 2.5K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Pugilist Level 6
After 4 hours - 0 exp gained | 2.5K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Pugilist Level 7
Sleep, work, class, whatever.

Day 6
=================================
After 1 hour - 0 exp gained | 2.5K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Pugilist Level 8
After 2 hours - 0 exp gained | 2.5K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Pugilist Level 8
After 3 hours - 0 exp gained | 2.5K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Pugilist Level 9
After 4 hours - 0 exp gained | 2.0K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Pugilist Level 9
Sleep, work, class, whatever.

Day 7
=================================
After 1 hour - 0 exp gained | 1.75K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Pugilist Level 9
After 2 hours - 0 exp gained | 1.50K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Pugilist Level 9
After 3 hours - 0 exp gained | 1.25K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Pugilist Level 10
After 4 hours - 0 exp gained | 1.00K skill gained | Physical Level 11 | Pugilist Level 10
Sleep, work, class, whatever.

Personally, I'm not sure I see the point to this system. All it means is that the hardcore players are going to have every class leveled instead of just one class. It'll take a little longer to reach max level, but that's about it. Obviously nobody's going to spend 28 hours grinding (in combat the entire time), or make a steady 10K exp/hour, 2.5K skill/hour.
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#196 Aug 25 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
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i HIGHLY doubt its 8 hours of exp grinding
its more likly an EXP cap (100k exp per week till it starts dropping)
limiting it by hour aint helping the casual or the hardcores.

according to above posts and others who sorta experienced this (look above) standing around for 4 hours in battle mode seems to do nothing to your fatigue, only when u start exping does it kick in.

that would limit power lvling, and would also help ppl catch up to the hardcore gamers.
i think the whole 8 hours/15 hours is what SE is going to do to get those exp cap numbers.
find a couple ppl who are crazy hardcore, watch there exp gains in a 8 hour period, then watch there exp gains for another 7 hour period and make those the caps.

according to an above post, people only started reaching the limit in P3 where the exp gain was raised(from what i believe happend) not from the amount of time they've been playing.

evidence points to it being an EXP cap, not a time cap. guess we'll have to wait and see for sure in the OB or if SE clearifies it later.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 3:43pm by nirtsbro
#197 Aug 25 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
Nirn wrote:
So here's my understanding of it. One week in the life of a softcore (28 hours a week) FFXIV player.


If you're spending 28 hours a week on any single leisure activity, that's pretty hardcore.
#198 Aug 25 2010 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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I'm almost a hardcore eater, then! 3 meals a day, 1 hour per meal, 7 days a week? 21 hours.
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#199 Aug 25 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
So here's my understanding of it. One week in the life of a softcore (28 hours a week) FFXIV player.


I'd put that time frame as hardcore personally. Also, note that physical level doesn't decrease as fast as class level does. I was 15 physical before I started getting a reduction, and I had been playing for like 24 hours at that point.
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#200 Aug 25 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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whoops

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 3:51pm by Dizmo
#201 Aug 25 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'd put that time frame as hardcore personally. Also, note that physical level doesn't decrease as fast as class level does. I was 15 physical before I started getting a reduction, and I had been playing for like 24 hours at that point.

I'm used to WoW's hardcore mode - 8 hours a day during the week, 16 hours a day on the weekend. That's where I pulled the "softcore" from. It's what I consider to be in between casual and hardcore. Also, the numbers I put up are just for ease of use. From what I've seen of the videos, the average player will get around 1000 exp per mob. At that rate, they'd be killing only 10 mobs per hour to reach the 10K exp/hour mark! Realistically, that number's going to be much higher.

Quote:
i HIGHLY doubt its 8 hours of exp grinding
its more likly an EXP cap (100k exp per week till it starts dropping)
limiting it by hour aint helping the casual or the hardcores.

Mr. Komoto, on behalf of SE, stated that:
Quote:
Within the first eight hours of play, you can earn 100% experience. The seven hour period following will see your possible experience gradually approach zero.

There's nothing there to imply that it's an exp cap, and everything to imply that it's hourly based. That being said, I completely agree that it's neither helping the casuals nor the hardcores.
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